Wowpedia talk:Village pump/Archive11

Template Crew
With a couple blessings from other admins and no major objections, I'd like to officially form the Template Crew to be in charge of troubleshooting and improving templates. If you're interested, check out the discussion here. 09:14, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Documentation of UI de-facto standards
It was suggested the other day that I document the new de-facto standard for click-casting that we created in the transition from alpha to beta. I don't see any place that this would clearly go (and a HOWTO seems focused elsewhere, I'd want to make a howto as well, but I feel the standard documentation should be somewhat separate).

Rather than let the NP patrol deal with it, I wanted to ask and see where you'd like "standards" like that to go? I considered putting it in the RFC category, but wanted to get feedback on placement. Cladhaire 10:16, 8 February 2007 (EST)


 * CKKnight was attempting to sort out something similar with bringing some of the WoWAce methods they use. I did stress to him though, there is no standards authority in place to validate any of these, these are simply methods that have become common due to ease of use and efficiency. I would suggest simply calling them UI methods/practices/scriptlets or something, and stay away from calling them standards. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 14:46, 8 February 2007 (EST)


 * In my case, the standard is documented on the WoW forums, and is currently in use by any number of unrelated addons. Where in the ace "standards" they are merely best practices, the click-casting standards are actually required in order to ensure click-casting addons operate correctly with each unit frames, and have a way to be aware that each other exists.  Its not a Blizzard sanctioned standard, because that won't happen.. but the Ace "practices" are just things that he would like the rest of addons to begin using. Cladhaire 15:00, 8 February 2007 (EST)


 * I see, didn't realize what you meant. Well yes, that does need a more de-facto standard documentation. I don't touch the API stuff, and i think the best people to offer help would be Tekkub and Mikk. the latter being away it seems. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 15:18, 8 February 2007 (EST)

New Wiki error
"Database error From WoWWiki Jump to: navigation, search A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:   (SQL query hidden) from within function "Job::batchInsert". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (localhost)". --Dracomage 10:53, 8 February 2007 (EST)


 * Actually, that's the same error i've been getting when editing popular templates, it's not new. : / -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 14:40, 8 February 2007 (EST)

I've also seen this on a few quest pages, like

http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Rise_of_the_Machines_%283%29

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "Job::pop". MySQL returned error "1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)".

--

Server caching and stuff
Just something I found while reading over wiki stuff last night: As your site grows. We probably be in better shape if we can get any of those implemented. The squid proxy could be useful, since we have "344.79 views per edit" as of this post (see Special:Statistics). --Voidvector 12:11, 10 February 2007 (EST)

Vile Poison bug
Wanted to mention here that there is a bug with Vile Poisons making poisons 100% resistant to dispel. Noted on the Rogue Talent page. 20:24, 11 February 2007 (EST)

"WoWWiki is having a problem"
Just wondering what's up with getting "WoWWiki is having a problem" all the time. . .is the site overloaded/too much traffic?

--Uhhhh 13:04, 12 February 2007 (EST)

As far as I know, yes. Apparently it has something to do with bots making edits or something... However, it has been brought up several times and the admins are working very hard to fix it! --Patrigan - Talk - SH (EU) 14:36, 12 February 2007 (EST)


 * "Admins working very hard" means waiting for Rustak to upgrade the MediaWiki software. We have created a TODO list for him, however, that we intend to keep up to date. This way he'll know exactly what we need from him when he's around. 18:46, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Template:Settableall and Burning Crusade
At the moment, the settableall template looks like this

As you can see, the Burning Crusade sets are not seperated from pre-BC sets. What I am suggesting is that we make it look something like this

--Demeth 10:21, 13 February 2007 (EST)
 * You don't want to make it a multiple-line thing, I don't think. I'd suggest editing the header and/or background colors instead. --Bobson 22:57, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Also, would be nice to find some way to distinguish out the PvP & Arena sets, instead of having it always link to an intermediary page. --Starbuk 02:04, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

What do spells look like?
Could we add what spells look like? Sometimes I will people buff someone or cast something, and I'm curious what the spell does. For example, Paladins got a trillion buffs and spells, connecting pictures from what I see ingame, to what I see on here would be nice. So, huh? --Colinstu 20:57, 13 February 2007 (EST)
 * That's not a bad idea...--Sky 21:42, 13 February 2007 (EST)
 * It's a good idea, it's just really hard to take decent pictures of those buffs. If you think you are up for the task of pictures, do it and add them. == Patrigan - Talk / Contr - SH (EU)  13:39, 14 February 2007 (EST)
 * Well I'll start that --Colinstu 16:04, 14 February 2007 (EST)

Resistance and Faction Categories for items?
Two things that occurred to me when I was killing downtime at work the other day by filling out scores of "wanted" item pages using the Help:Item articles. First, I noticed some items have already been categorized under "Aldor" or "Scryers" when crafting them requires rep with that faction, so I continued with it. Seems helpful to me, like something that could be extended to other factions, but what do others think? Second, it seemed that gear articles could just as well be categorized under any resistances they offered (arcane, fire, etc.) and this category, if it existed, could extend to include buffs, potions, whatnot. Both Resistance and Faction seemed to me just as logical a way of categorizing applicable item articles as "Armor:Legs" or "Leather Armor" or "Leatherworking Products" but I didn't want to pollute the categories area by experimenting, since I'm a total wikinoob and quite likely to screw it up. --Tachwedd 13:55, 14 February 2007 (EST)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me. Adding a new category's easy, but you might want find a user with a bot to actually add stuff to it.  If you want to, you can just create an empty category page and add Stub/Category to it... It'd be better to organize it a bit more (Category:Fire Resist, etc, then put the stub on those) and maybe add some items just so it isn't empty.--Bobson 00:10, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Elinks Templates Standardization
Launched this morning a new vote for the Standardization of the Elinks Templates, consisting into removing Thottbot from the templates Elinksitem and Elinksmob. Check the page for more informations, opinions are all welcome. -- 06:35, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Gsdkp
Moved to Wowpedia talk:Known vandals

Lightening the load
Kirburn has told me that we may be getting an upgrade this weekend, but that it is not definite. If we do not get an upgrade by this coming Sunday, I propose that we move to lighten the load on the wiki temporarily until we do get one. Mainly, this means replacing templatization with lighter weight, stable solutions until we have the software to handle prettier versions. For the most part, I think replacing our styled item links with simple links and replacing the tooltips with links to the information will be a start. The easiest way to do this might be to take the code in inkloot, move it to Template:Loot/Dev, and temporarily replace the code with something simple like. ~

I want to be at least prepared to start this by Monday morning, should we not get an upgrade by then. Thoughts? 10:31, 15 February 2007 (EST)


 * Thoughts and ideas, because I'm not entirely sure what would be appropriate. 20:11, 15 February 2007 (EST)


 * Because of the upgrade, all such templates will require a recode anyways. I suggest changing them all to very simplified forms, no conditionals used. How you want to handle tooltip though i don't know, as it's not possible to simplify to that point, and would require a bot run to convert everything back to the only tooltip. I favor leaving it in place for now.
 * I already have a template for loot} we can use in the time being, but there are so many others that arn't really possible to handle :/ I'll try and do what i can -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 22:25, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Collapsing Ore/bars/metal
I have been looking at the pages on mining, and noted that we have separate pages for, for instance, Copper Ore, Copper Bar, and Copper. The latter pages fall under the "metals" category and include information from both the Ore and the Bar pages, as well as images of the deposit. However, the Ore and Bar pages often are not complete, or contain information not present on the metal's page. I would be happy with the metals page transcluding the ore and bar pages, or with the ore and bar pages redirecting to the metals page, consolidating all the information there.

I wanted opinions, though, before I started in on that. --Eirik Ratcatcher 13:43, 15 February 2007 (EST)
 * My opinion is a merge into Copper, with redirects at Ore and Bar. Likewise for the other various metals. Other thoughts?--Sky 21:14, 15 February 2007 (EST)
 * It's what was up before. I splitted the metal page into Bar and Ore, since the items are themselves different and some ores are used for different recipes that bars are not used for. The metal articles should stay up as a general information page and links to the Bar and Ore but should not keep informations the two other pages already have. I see the metal pages themselves are more of a "lore" page. -- 22:08, 15 February 2007 (EST)


 * With Adys, anything else just sounds silly. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 22:18, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Assuming we keep all 3 pages per metal, what belongs solely on the metal page, what belongs on the Ore and/or Bar page, what belongs on both? Do we make the Ore/Bar pages transclusion-friendly and include them in the metal page wholesale (with whatever "lore" additions seem appropriate)? And do we develop a sidebar for ore/bars in the same fashion as Metal? --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:41, 16 February 2007 (EST)
 * I was going to propose a merge on these for the same reasons. They don't always cross-link properly, some of the ores are just stubs, etc. I think it would be better to have them merged, and just do sub-pages for lengthy portions such as recipes. Right now, it's kind of scattershot as to what goes where, and how to find what you're looking for. -- Kesherz 19:50, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * A stub is an article that does not contain full information and needs to be expanded, not a small article. ¬_¬ None of these are stubs. None of them have any information that should cross over to justify transclusion, only the information relevent to each item. They belong as they are -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 00:07, 17 February 2007 (EST)
 * I beg to differ in at least part. Mithril Ore is a stub.  And compare Fel Iron vs Fel Iron Bar to Copper vs Copper Bar. The content of these are inconsistent.  I will not further argue the merits of transclusion.  /agree on definition of a stub.  Disagree that the definition was disputed.  --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:49, 19 February 2007 (EST)

The BC tag.
In order for pages to format properly, please make sure the T:Bc tag, is at the very top of the editing page. and any "menus" are below it. example: this page does not format properly, because the BC tag is added after the menu, hence the menu will push the BC tag, and the entire page along with it,,, down. this looks bad. This is how it should look 04:08, 16 February 2007 (EST)
 * For item pages, may I recommend also that it be in a "noinclude' section? --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:41, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * Irrelevent until a new item article standard is established. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 00:12, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Item names spelling
Some items have a bit strange names, e.g. Beast Lord Curiass or Pantaloons of Repentence (see talk pages there). The problem is always the same: Thottbot, Allakhazam and Wowhead show bad spelling, but all my dictionaries consider that a mistake and say otherwise (Cuirass, Repentance & so on). Does anyone have some screenshots to clarify if that's a Blizzard mistake or not? What should we do with such things? -- Vysogota 18:51, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * No question, we use what is in-game, and that is what the sites you mentioned use too. Doesn't matter if they spelt things wrong. :/ --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 03:20, 18 February 2007 (EST)


 * Go post the spelling errors on the Bug forum on the official WoW forums. :)--Sky 02:43, 17 February 2007 (EST)


 * Be careful with what you consider spelling errors... I spent an hour looking for information about before I realized that it was really  ;P  17:31, 20 February 2007 (EST)


 * I was reminded of when I read this... :)  --Silin@Proudmoore 21:04, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Server:Hakkar US
Now how would you deal with that page? I've removed a couple of PoV statements once (and I seem to remember somewhere that PoV was a bad thing, even on server pages), and I'd not prefer an edit war (which it could very easily be). Give them an h2 heading to list all their trolls/insignificant toons? :/--Sky 03:59, 11 February 2007 (EST)
 * I've removed the idiotic statements again, and added a warning (especially since much of it was defamation). 04:21, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Manual texts from wc1/wc2
I found these floating around on the website fully transcribed, and I was wondering if these should be added to the citation page:
 * Warcraft I
 * Chronicles of the War in Azeroth
 * The Destiny of the Orcish Hordes
 * Warcraft II
 * The History of Orcish Ascension
 * A Brief History of the Fall of Azeroth
 * Aftermath of the Second War

I suspect the campaign intros from the WCIII manual are on here also. I was also wondering if we could work on getting these linked to by other pages on the site...--Sky 14:53, 19 February 2007 (EST)

TOC
Tocs can sometimes be a bit frustrating.. -> Karazhan, it greates a huge gap of empty space... you cant move it left, right, or anywhere, its ugly, doesnt go where you want it.... its time for improvement. on Patch mirrors i made a custom toc, with the titles that were needed to be highlighted. this concept has some metit, as you can better control where you want the toc to move, which titles are important enough, and which ones you can skip, you could even use it multiple times in the article if you wanted to. anyone have further ideas to perhaps improve the TOC isuse? 07:56, 20 February 2007 (EST)


 * No offense, but people just need to simply learn how to use it properly (though the fact it can't be configured to have a max width, is stuck in table and can't be made into a horizontal format is a bitch).
 * Use the correct level of headers in the article.
 * Float it right (left will cause problems with lists, this is an issue of the css specs, nothing else) within the lead-in.
 * Float it under summary information displays (eg. tooltips. This is why WoWBox is such a poor concept as it is too large and encompassing to be of any use) when needed
 * Clear after it, before the main body of the article
 * The issue with most of the above is when it's long, it's obviously a bad idea. But because no one is bothering to make a decent layout for articles (Or simply that no one gives a damn that i've been developing one and have had one ready for implementation for ages). Ultimately, we need a layout that has the following.
 * A Column on the left or right (my preference) of the article, containing the summary, toc, internal and external links, and non-contextual images (screenshots, artwork with no relevence to specific parts of the article content, merely the article as a whole).
 * Voila, a decent usuable layout that solves all the issues. Hopefully this gets sorted before we look as crap as wikipedia, which the example you gave for Patch Mirrors is becoming. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 13:12, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Herbs
Dreaming Glory and Terocone are identified as "artisan-level" herbs, which, I believe, is incorrect. They both require skill over 300, which would make them "master-level". Felweed is also identified as "artisan-level" which I suppose is correct since an artisan could gather it, although that's not a great idea. I would recommend elminating the "artisan-level" identification and just identify the skill level required to pick it. Also, many of the herbs have different formats and could be standardized fairly easily. --Mlucero 10:27, 20 February 2007 (EST)

300 + tauren(315) + herbalismgloves(5) + enchant(5) allows you to pick herbs up to 325. 10:30, 20 February 2007 (EST)


 * The fact that if you are Tauren and if you have the right gear, you could pick it seems misleading, at best. I don't think that the "artisan-level" identification adds anything, simply listing the skill level needed to pick it seems more informative and less confusing.  The root of the is arguement is, what makes something "artisan-level"?  Since it not a in-game defined parameter, it could be a number of things, which is what makes it misleading and imho, unnecessary.  Also, it is listed under Master herb in the TOC, further confusing things. --Mlucero 10:43, 20 February 2007 (EST)


 * Since no one is objecting, I'm going to put the post-BC herbs in the pre-BC format. I don't think the old format is perfect, but at least it is consistent.  It'll be slow, but I started with Netherbloom.  --Mlucero 10:56, 22 February 2007 (EST)

Server:Bloodhoof_Europe
What did I do wrong on this page? I just can't figure it out, mostly because I didn't create it all ;P
 * Explain yourself.Sky (t · c · w)
 * Over here the navbar appears at the bottom left corner, instead of under the icon (where it is supposed to be).
 * Yeah, we saw that on irc the other night. Kirk took a stab at it and failed.Sky (t · c · w)


 * Timestamps people, timestamps! >_< I'm going to completely reformat that page, any objections can be expressed with reverts ¬_¬ --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 19:51, 21 February 2007 (EST)
 * Sorry, didn't know the wikicode for automatically adding a timestamp. Anyway, please do try to keep it userfriendly. Though I do not mind checking out how stuff works (mainly by trial and error), I prefer to skip that process :p

User preference page
Hello everybody, I've been using WoWwiki for quite some time now and finally decided to create an account and edit a few things. This all went fine, but when I looked at my Account Preferences I almost fell of my chair.

Instead of a dark gray background, it is blindingly white. This makes it impossible to read the text of those pages. This is a problem for all of the sub categories under "Preferences".

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, if not then my apologies for that. It just seemed to me that this is a problem that should be fixed.

--Aiten 07:02, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * Known issue, not working as intended. ;) Will be fixed at some point in time along with most other things. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 07:05, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ah, thought it was maybe my browser or so. --Aiten 07:23, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * The admins of the site don't mean to leave it in a state of disarray like that. We just don't have access to fix it right now. It is on our lengthy list of things to-do when we have the chance. Thank you for reporting it though. If anything else is amiss, please don't hesitate to report it.--<span style="font-size: 0.85em; padding: .2em .3em; border-top: 1px #504c50 solid; border-bottom: 1px #504c50 solid; background-color: #2C2C2C"> Hobinheim  ( talk ·  contr ) 07:45, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * The wiki is a mess.. oh wait you said amiss ;) The bugs, they're organizing! --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 08:01, 22 February 2007 (EST)

PvP Tokens
Mark of Honor Hold, Halaa Battle Token, Mark of Thrallmar - These need a category and/or page detailing them. I'm not sure what we should actually call them however... Came across them while tidying up Honor, Honor System and Honor point, however these pages aren't really correct for discussing those tokens. Ideas? --Psyker7 18:40, 23 February 2007 (EST)

I'm thinking PvP Token, which it seems people have been linking to. Although they could be considered Marks of Honor --Psyker7 19:12, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Rumors in the global namespace
There are a couple fan-created speculative articles that craft in great detail possible expansions. Emerald Dream Expansion Pack Rumor and Great Sea expansion pack rumor are two of them. While the articles are certainly impressive in scope, their presentation as articles in the global namespace gives them a definitive authority not necessary appropriate for their intense speculative nature. Therefore, I think we should move these and others like them to the user subpages of the primary author since they're essentially fan fiction. 22:51, 23 February 2007 (EST)
 * Prehaps move the pages, create a page such as Future Expansion Rumors linking to them. Left in user name spaces they would be much less likely to be found I would think.
 * Bah, so i look and find Rumored expansions. So long as they are linked from there sounds good. --Psyker7 01:06, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * They belong in the global namespace imo. They are not things limited to one user, and they are relevent to a vast amount of real articles and should be linked to in most places from these real articles. In no way does this imply they are authoritive, they are clearly marked as speculation and rumour. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 10:28, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * My problem is they are very self-contained and far too specific. For instance, the Emerald Dream article says the Furbolgs will go with the Alliance and the Quillboars will go Horde, which is possible but lore-wise isn't supported either way. There could also be brand new races, or there might be no new playable races at all for that x-pac. The exhaustive list of zones, raid instances, and speculative new classes just seems very un-wiki. The level of specificity is on par with fan-fiction instead of cautious speculation. ~


 * I could see a page on possible future expansions, but it would have to be heavily cited from Blizzard and official lore sources to be useful as a resource. Think "Blizzard says they want to do an expansion in Northrend. This will probably include Arthas and Icecrown, the Sourge, the Nerubians, and possibly the Forgotten Ones." Not "The Icecrown glacier zone is made up of the Iceburn Scar, the Spider's Haven, and Watch of the Scourgemaster subzones." Something as extensive as the above articles is less wiki and more entertainment. Something closer to Rumored expansions is more what we need. 13:41, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ah, i se the distinction you're making, that sounds fine. Really, you could define it like this. Future Speculation (most of the game stuff, some lore fan fics etc), Alternative Speculation (pretty much just fan fiction), Past Speculation (mostly lore speculation, retcons etc). --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 14:05, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * Sounds good. I don't think speculation should exceed a section (2-3 paragraphs) per possible x-pac. Not a hard and fast rule, but you can't fall in love with your theory too much. 16:25, 24 February 2007 (EST)

New Karazhan Dungeon Templates!
Just wanted to advertise these for those people who manage progression pages. :)--Sky 02:05, 24 February 2007 (EST)
 * guildprogress ally kara header
 * guildprogress horde kara header
 * guildprogress ally kara
 * guildprogress horde kara
 * guildprogress kara order

Heroic Modes
What is our convention for info on heroic mode instances? Should it go under the same title as the normal instance? Be linked to from the normal instance page?

--Mekh 06:06, 25 February 2007 (EST)
 * Unless Heroic mode changes the layout of the instance, I'd say to just make it a section of the same page. If you run through the same areas to fight the same bosses, and it's just that the trash is higher level and the bosses are harder and/or have more abilities, then there's no need for a seprate page. --Bobson 19:25, 25 February 2007 (EST)

Icon template
I see that icon template has been changed yesterday -- suddenly almost all TBC items show red text instead of an icon image. Is it supposed to be like this or something's wrong? -- Vysogota 21:05, 27 February 2007 (EST)


 * If you saw that it was changed, you could have also seen the talk page than explains why and what needs to be done. Basically, remove the icon from the page, and if you're feeling more adventurous, update the tooltip of the page in accordance to the boilerplate. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 21:29, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Yeah, I've just read that talk page. IMO Fandyllic was right -- you shouldn't make such crucial change without having a bot ready to clean it up. Almost all TBC item pages are complete mess right now and I definitely don't like it. -- Vysogota 01:44, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Then fix it you lazy bum! Stop complaining about it and do something about it. If you agree with Fandyllic then you merely skimmed over it or you're stupid. Icon outside of Tooltip needs to be removed, and i'm not going to wait even longer around for a bot to do the job, holding back progress of other parts of the wiki evne further. This should have been done ages ago. Now, it's forcing people to make sure it's removed. If it's reverted, you're just adding even more work load for users and the bot'if/when a bot is available, which could be never. This needed to be done, and now i've forced people to take action isntead of making things worse and worse and preventing progress --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 01:54, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Gee thanks for the appreciation for the work of the regular schmoe. I wrote a small buttload of pages to fill in some gaps for the wiki, in support of the wiki, and all that.  Crappy perhaps, but voluntarily and with the best of intent.  I don't have a problem with the idea of furthering improvements on templates and so on; and I can't comment on the bot thing since I've got no idea how that's done anyhow.  I -do- have a problem with the running attitude here of "I broke A to fix B, so now other people will get off their lazy doffs to fix it."  My lazy doff has better things to do, especially when I now have no idea if any further work I add will just get made to look like crap by another change in the future.  Oh and it will totally help make wowwiki a premiere site for game info... Yeah... because pages with apparently broken links just attract readers and contributers like flies to honey.  end.sarcasm.  --Tachwedd 10:08, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * It's times like these that I actually love Zeal. At least one person who is concerned with wiki progress instead of the continious babbling about wether or not something is democratically decided / highly needed / usefull but not urgent / whatever other silly discussion they hold concerning something positive... <font color="#CC6633">== <font color="#00CC33">Patrigan <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">Talk <font color="#CC6633">/ <font color="#00CC33">Contr <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">SH (EU)  08:27, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Democracy is bupkiss. Change it, let the uproar sort things out.  *points at Template:BC Itempage Placeholder*  I'm not upset with how he handled that, it got someone's attention :P  If the depreciated warning isn't big enough to motivate people to write pages, we'll make it bigger and annoyinger!   10:26, 28 February 2007 (EST)

Insults to other users, not taking responsibility for API changes, and generally inflammatory comments are all strikes in my book. If this turns into an insult fest or API war, I make no hesitations in locking down the template, pending administrator approval for edits, and breaking out the ban hammer. Watchout, it's epic.--<span style="font-size: 0.85em; padding: .2em .3em; border-top: 1px #504c50 solid; border-bottom: 1px #504c50 solid; background-color: #2C2C2C"> Hobinheim  ( talk ·  contr ) 12:41, 28 February 2007 (EST)

So I see this as... Icon now "requires" the full file name because tooltip requires the full file name. To me, this seems to be a deficiency in tooltip... If all the icons in tooltip refer to blizzard approved files, and if these blizzard approved files have a standard naming convention to which we guarantee a png, i see no reason to include the extension in tooltip. And through that, icon.--<span style="font-size: 0.85em; padding: .2em .3em; border-top: 1px #504c50 solid; border-bottom: 1px #504c50 solid; background-color: #2C2C2C"> Hobinheim  ( talk ·  contr ) 12:46, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Kirkburn knows my thoughts on insults, i couldn't care less what he or other's think on the matter. Who said i'm not taking responsibility? I'm pushing for progress here, and we should not be letting a lack of a bot hold that back. I will be making the changes when i come across them, as should everyone. We can't sit on our asses and wait for a bot everytime something widespread (and incorrectly i might add) needs to be changed to move onto improving other things on the wiki. The reason why we require a bot even more now is because people were doing that, and it's being worse and worse.
 * We are working towards all icon's having a .png, but not all do, and we can't gaurentee it, that is why Icon was flawed in it's lack of needing it. Tooltip, among severla other interoperable templates require the full name. There was a choice to be made.. actually screw it, i was going to do the usual and rexplain myself for those who still don't get it, but i see it's already written plainly enough for anyone to understand, so i suggest you read it again if you still see it as the wrong choice. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 13:01, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * With all due respect Hobinheim. Zeal is in my oppinion the only one in the past months who actually pushed some real changes through the roof. I'm not talking small things like a new BC template (yet even there his hand was felt). At this very moment, we need to lessen the load on the wiki and most changes I've seen him do have actually made this possible. If you would ban (or even threaten to ban) this person, I would start reviewing the wiki, as you might aswell shut it down at that point. The wiki has been standing rather still the past months. Yes some BC stuff has been added, we actually were the BC source in the beginning, but now the other websites have already surpassed us again. We became a small buffer. Without any considerable changes, we will always stay that. There have been workings on Tooltips and Database importing. Yet they still haven't progressed. There are other details like standards, which are debated more than they are implemented.
 * This whol text was rather offtopic, I know, but I felt as if I had to say it. Now if you admins are working on something rather big in the background, then apologies for these harsh words. I must say however, to the commons, the people who just edit. No notable changes have been detected, except for Zeal's work. And someone with bot knowledge can easily have implemented the bot needed for these changes in the past days that this discussion was up. <font color="#CC6633">== <font color="#00CC33">Patrigan <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">Talk <font color="#CC6633">/ <font color="#00CC33">Contr <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">SH (EU)  17:46, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * I generally don't visit Village Pump because alot of it is just tit for tat stuff that has not much direct effect on WoWWiki, but I thought I'd need to put my about this Icon template thing and some of the attitudes around it.
 * For those of you who think democracy is bupkiss, bogus, or whatever... I invite you to go live in a non-democratic country for awhile. It would also be interesting to hear from WoWWiki users who do not live in democratic countries.
 * Contrary to the belief of some, most of WoWWiki has progressed without the disruptive changes like Zeal's. The WoWWiki of a year ago looks nothing like it does today and we didn't feel we had to piss people off to get it here. If you look at Template talk:Icon, you will read Zeal even admitting the flaw in his method, but using the "progress" argument to justify his mistake.
 * Most of the arguments in favor of icon requiring an extension have been pretty weak IMHO. The argument, "tooltip relies on the way Icon works" is clearly completely bogus. There is no way I'm going to promote the attitude that you need to break stuff to get people's attention.
 * I'm not going to ban anyone for being disruptive with good intentions, but at some point continued disruption based on a narrow idea of "progress" is not excusable without some reprecussions. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 1:33 PM PST 1 Mar 2007


 * You make it sound like it was purposeful, thankfully people can read the truth in the talk page. For someone who i thought was understanding, you overly simplified and glossed over the reasons why it should have an extension.
 * I've not been around long, but all the changes i've seen that did progress the wiki in the past were few and far between, and more often that not they were distruptive and rather wild, most notably those of Silver Side. So i can't beleive that.
 * Also gotta love how once again, you gloss over and simplify the extrmely varied and complex issue of different non-demoractic vs. democratic.
 * It's no secret my desire to continue contributing to WoWWiki is fading, this is just another step in that direction sadly. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 17:06, 1 March 2007 (EST)

I'm a wiki noob, admittedly. I run across the pages with the big red 'invalid' text on them, and would be willing to fix it when I do, but don't know how, or where to look to find out how to. Is there somewhere that gives directions, or are directions available to do so? --Azaram 00:26, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * Basically, you just need to append .png to the icon name (if that doesn't work, try .jpg). Ultimately however, it involves removing Icon completely, and rewritting/adding the tooltip using tooltip (See Help:Item articles for full documentation on how to create an item tooltip), which is good deal more work to do. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 01:22, 4 March 2007 (EST)

Blizzard Employees posting on WoWWiki?
Does anyone know if any Blizzard employees (in particular, Metzen) post on here? I've seen a few wikis that include information that goes beyond the scope of the game, and was wondering if anyone from Blizzard is dropping us info...

--Tyrsenus 20:48, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Probably if they ever did, it wouldn't be in any sort of official capacity. They'd probably just post under an alias if they ever posted here. - ClydeJr 10:49, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * And Blizzy isn't one to let details "leak" before they make an official announcement. That's not to say they don't let info out ahead of time, in fact they tell us a lot of things, where other MMOs I've played try to keep some stuff, like the game's formulas, as secretive as possible.  So no, Blue doesn't make their presence known anywhere but their own site really, cause that keeps them in control in the end.   20:25, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * I know they wouldn't do it in any official way, I just remember reading an interview with either Tigole, Furor, or Metzen saying they use wowwiki as a reference because they sometimes have trouble keeping lore straight themselves. It'd be interesting to see if anyone with a Blizzard IP address is using wowwiki.  Of course you'd have to know what their IP's are beforehand. --Tyrsenus 19:54, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * More in our interest to let them be anonymous. 19:59, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * Don't tell anyone, but Montag == Tigs 20:36, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * I'll keep it just between you and me. --Azaram 02:40, 10 March 2007 (EST)


 * Montag == Sargeras. ::Diabolical dark titanly laugh.:: 12:29, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Feels faster?
Is it just me or does this wiki feel faster and a little (emphasis on little) more reliable? Do we have less edits now or something?--<span style="font-size: 0.85em; padding: .2em .3em; border-top: 1px #504c50 solid; border-bottom: 1px #504c50 solid; background-color: #2C2C2C"> Hobinheim  ( talk ·  contr ) 17:39, 2 March 2007 (EST)
 * It isn't just you. I've actually had less of the "Wowwiki is having a problem" errors too. xD--Sky 18:58, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * Much faster, much more stable (even editting popular templates is rarely producing an error now). All because Exists use has been removed (when i've seen it), it was indeed the culprit. Basically because of recursive inclusion and cachching issues, any page that used a template that used it, included all templates that used it, possibly twice over or more. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal   talk   contr  web 19:22, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * Sounds like an argument to get the *real* parser funcs installed ^^  20:52, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * /seconded -- Remember, kids, the ParserFunctions are your friends! Move costly processing out of the poor, overworked template engine and into (relatively) speedy PHP!   19:13, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * Ohshizwhowasrighthobwasbooyah. Paranoia rules!--<span style="font-size: 0.85em; padding: .2em .3em; border-top: 1px #504c50 solid; border-bottom: 1px #504c50 solid; background-color: #2C2C2C"> Hobinheim  ( talk ·  contr ) 10:50, 3 March 2007 (EST)

Aldors and Scryers
I found something interesting when I looked at the Aldor and the Scryers. In particular, the Switching to Scryers was duplicated on both pages, but there was no reference to how to switch to Aldor. In addition, the same information is duplicated twice on the Scryers page. Why twice? What I did was put in a Switching to Aldor segment instead. But maybe some consensus can be gathered on how to treat these two pages if anyone wants to switch from Aldor to Scryer or vice versa?--Slxception 14:13, 3 March 2007 (EST)


 * In the dictionary, under "redundant" it says "see redundant" 15:31, 3 March 2007 (EST)

What happened to elinks?
What happened to the thottbot link in elinksitem? --Mlucero 13:44, 5 March 2007 (EST)


 * It only shows up if provided, the other sites index by the same IDs as the game does. Thott uses whatever random numbers they want.  It's easier to list the other sites with a single lookup, which can even be done easily in game with a simple addon.  For more details, see the discussion/vote  20:06, 5 March 2007 (EST)
 * If you want to include thottbot, use . The first is Alla/WH, the second stands for Thott.--Sky 20:09, 5 March 2007 (EST)
 * I know all that. I mean, someone prettied it up with icons, but broke it.  All the herbs, and probably other things, previously had thottbot, alla, and wowhead links.  Now they only have alla and wowhead with pretty icons. --Mlucero 11:04, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * I prettied it up with the icons. I did not break it, if you know all that, then you know thottbot was removed for a reason and is now only optional. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 11:19, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * Am fixink, please stand by 12:43, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * Thanks, Tekkub! Imho, Zeal should be given a big stick and a licence to beat the ignorant.  This would make for a much quieter, more peaceful world...  Lord knows I might say a little less.  --Mlucero 3:20, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * ^^ Zeal did a nice job with the template, I think he just misinterpreted "discouraging the use of thottbot" when he did.  We never intended to remove existing thott links, tho he had voted for the "remove thott" option.  *shrug*  It's all fixed now, and there's annoying banners to tell people to update to the new template until a bot can hit em up.   22:32, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * As my last contribution to WoWWiki, i'd just like to say you made my day with that comment Mlucero, thanks. ^_^; --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 04:28, 7 March 2007 (EST)


 * Last contribution??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......... --Mlucero 10:25, 7 March 2007 (EST)

How to add an extra page, when the title is already used.
I am trying to add our guild to WoWWiki, much like Semper Danica and others have done it. But our guild name, Serenity, already has page for the mace of the same name.

How do I add an "extra" page with the same name, and then add a link to the top of the Serenity mace page, with a text like "Are you looking for the guild Serenity? Click here." or something similar?

I've tried reading the FAQs and guides on making a new page, but I can't seem to find out how - and the last thing I wan't to do is delete the current Serenity page :-)

Please help!

--Nishika 07:41, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * In this case, i would name your guild artile Guild:Serenity. But others might have something to say about that.. Another option which is acutally more in accordance to policy, is to move Serenity to Serenity (Item) and change Serenity to a disambig page using the Disambig template, and create you guild as Serenity (Guild). But even then, i'm sure people will moan how an item has become disambigged and in their biased opinions beleive the item should have priority.. So yeah, imo do whatever you feel like, aslong as both the articles are logically named and found by usual means. --<span style="background-color: #111; border-left: 1px #444 solid; border-right: 1px #444 solid; padding: 0 0.2em;"> Zeal  talk   contr  web 08:02, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * I'd use Serenity (guild) and add a diambig header to Serenity if you feel the need.  08:59, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * Guild naming policy is currently in the works. So far, guilds tend to either be just the guild name,, the guild name followed by (guild),   or the guild name followed by the server in parantheses,  . If yours is the only guild named Serenity, you should probably put a disambig note at the top of the item Serenity that says, "Were you looking for the guild Serenity?" with a link to your guild's article.  16:46, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Schools of Magic - Template
I'd really like to have a template for schools, similarly to those for zones (see below). Unfortunately, I have no clue how to create templates. I did some research, but I'm not sure how to do it correctly. Do I need to create an own Template:<School> page for every school ? Obviously, the former three already exist, can I remove them (as they are not appropriate, anyway) and then recreate them? How do I find pages which use those "wrong" templates to correct these as well?

Hopefully, someone can help me on this topic. Would be really appreciated. Kind regards, --bfx 18:40, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Depreciated != Deprecated
I'm suddenly seeing the word "depreciated" a lot, especially on protected templates. As I'm not able to fix them myself, I just wanted to bring this common mistake to people's attention:


 * depreciate to decrease in monetary value over time
 * deprecate to disapprove of or discourage

Similar words, similar meanings (both are also used to mean "belittle"), but it drives some of us nuts when we seem them confused. :-)

19:07, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * Heh, I've had this argument with Zeal a couple of times on IRC. I agree, the correct term for a template which should no longer be used is "deprecated"; regardless of any previous meanings, its use to mark something as no longer to be used derives from the computer programming world, where is has a well defined, specific meaning. My computer depreciates, my code is deprecated. --Karrion 19:33, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * Please point out where it's still wrong. I won't be unlocking templates as it's too disruptive to the wiki :) 19:35, 6 March 2007 (EST)
 * The uses of "depreciated" I noticed: Deprecated Category:Depreciated_Templates Category:Pages_using_depreciated_templates --Karrion 20:22, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * You can blame me and my lack of ability to spell. I thought it was spelled wrong, but obviously the spellchecker didn't agree with me ^^   22:34, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * You spelled the word correctly, or the speelchucker figured it was close enough to change it...just happens to be the wrong word in this case. --Azaram 03:40, 7 March 2007 (EST)


 * Thanks for the heads up. I've always read it as "depreciated" when scanning technical docs, and have been guilty of using it on the string of edits that I've been doing (replacing the Template:elinksitem with Template:elinks-item.  --Jellisii 21:16, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * All my errors should be fixed. Whine some if I missed anything.  21:19, 8 March 2007 (EST)

Item Set + Matches
A lot of the five-piece sets, in particular the later tiers, are "missing" pieces visually to complete the outfit. The missing textures are usually applied to similar level equipment - would it be worthwhile to add information on those pieces to their respective set pages? (I'm currently compiling a list for my own edification...)

I realize they don't complete or contribute to the set in any meaningful gameplay fashion, but I know there are a lot of folks who are anal about their outfits like I am. Perhaps at the bottom, "For the Fashion-Conscious Troll or Night Elf..."?

--Zedric 21:20, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * I like the idea, I suggest adding a section "Pieces of equipment with the same texture" or something along those lines. Don't make a silly title, keep it kind of serious. We do need to attract the roleplaying society slightly more, in my humble oppinion. <font color="#CC6633">== <font color="#00CC33">Patrigan <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">Talk <font color="#CC6633">/ <font color="#00CC33">Contr <font color="#CC6633">- <font color="#00CC33">SH (EU)  11:54, 7 March 2007 (EST)

level 20 owlkin
--Tinytimy 22:15, 6 March 2007 (EST) I started a drainei warrior and i went up the owlkin hills area and at the top theres a level 20 hostel owlkin and i only wanted the chest did anyone get the chest so i can no if its worth it? cause i cant beat him.ty
 * I laughed so hard when I read this. --Colinstu 23:19, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Elinksystem bot
Don't know If I spelt the template wrong, but a ton of the pages need it changed. You could manually add a dash to just about every page, or could someone make a bot that fixes it? Old template: elinksystem, new: elink-system.... something like that. --Colinstu 23:37, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * We have bots raring to go :) It'll get done, but help is appreciated. 23:41, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * While the bots are out, could we add the heading "External links" over the template? It was included in ol' elinks, but with that shipped having sailed, most item pages are left without this heading. Not sure if someone is already on this. --Mikaka 23:45, 6 March 2007 (EST)


 * Removing the heading was intentional. There's basically 3 things that must be done to completely convert to the new template:
 * Add "== External Links =="
 * Change "{{Elinksitem" to "{{Elinks-item"
 * Move the template parameters. param2 was the itemID, that needs to became param1.  The old param1 needs to be explicitly named to "tb".
 * So for example "{{Elinksitem|1234|5678}}" needs to change to "== External Links == (linebreak) {{Elinks-item|5678|tb=1234}}" {{User:Tekkub/Sig}} 00:13, 7 March 2007 (EST)


 * Good, good. I hope it's being changed to "External links" with a lowercase l and not "External Links". I believe that's a WoWWiki policy somewhere...


 * Uh, not quite - the suggested method is written on {{Elinks}} . Though, tbh, either way works. :) 00:45, 7 March 2007 (EST)
 * Uh, try {{Elink|links={{elinks-item|ID|tb=TBID}}}} . :)--Sky 00:52, 7 March 2007 (EST)

New guidelines - WoWWiki:Manual of Style
I have made Wowpedia:Manual of Style an official guideline for the wiki. Recommended reading! 18:52, 7 March 2007 (EST)
 * Yay!--Sky 19:00, 7 March 2007 (EST)


 * Have ya'll ever settled on templates for talents and such? I got tired of doing updates when the discussions on layout just kept making worse and worse templates Sharlin

Template:Example and overflow
I'm trying to convert some of Help:Table to use Example/Begin and Example/End because the current blockquotes are rather ugly. However, there's a section of preformatted source code that is very long and tends to push Example off the page. I tried to add overflow:scroll and overflow:auto to Example/Begin, but apparently those arguments dont work with tables. As a temporary fix to Help:Table, I made the background transparent and the border gray on the source code. However, I'd still like to use Example at some point.

Anyone know of a fix for Example to allow it to scroll for long blocks of text? 19:08, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Page move questions
There's some information in Help:Renaming (moving) a page that I'd like to verify before removing it. The entire section titled Moving over a redirect seems completely innaccurate. I don't believe you can overwrite a redirect, as this section claims, without getting an error from MediaWiki saying the destination page already exists. The section titled Undoing a move seems to operate on the same assumption. The article also claims that when moving a page more than once, "the edit history of the page with the intermediate title shows the latest move only," which I'm sure is inaccurate since from my experience each move is listed in the edit history as a separate edit. I think this section may have been written about an old or bugged version of MediaWiki. However, just as a sanity check, I'd like someone else to say it's okay for me to delete or rewrite the offending information before I actually do it.

Also: Is merging edit histories as suggested in Fixing cut and paste moves even possible? 19:59, 7 March 2007 (EST)
 * The only reason that moving pages back after being move-vandalized is that redirects can be overwritten. Sorry, but I can't help with the rest. --Sky 23:06, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Master Plan
I've written up a list of goals that I believe WoWWiki needs to achieve if we're to become a site worthy of community-wide usage. One of our biggest deterrents has been our server quality, which luckily is being addressed. Second to that, a lot of our pages are lacking in quality. Right now, our strongest area seems to be our lore pages (with our API articles perhaps in close second, but I don't use them enough to know). Our other pages are falling behind.

I don't think all of these goals need to be met or worked on at this very moment. I haven't prioritized the list at all. However, I think the list is a good way of charting our progress -- what needs to happen for us to move from being a moderately useful site to being a central node of information concerning WoW. I'd like the community (especially the admins) to look it over and make comments, if you have a few minutes. 21:22, 7 March 2007 (EST)
 * Looked over it, left my comments at the talk page. Also made it look organized. :)--Sky 23:25, 7 March 2007 (EST)


 * Oo, thanks for that. It'll make discussing sections much easier. 11:36, 8 March 2007 (EST)

Templating question
I have been trying without much succes to create a dynamic table header with. I want to parse a list of arguments using and with those agrument I want to generate a table header.

Example:

Now when I do this:

The table gets botched due to an extra newline "created" by the by the third argument. Anyone a idea how to fix this? -- 08:35, 8 March 2007 (EST)

Item Help
I am busy updating epic item pages to the new tooltip in the boilerplate. For some reason Hurricane (bow) is not showing the vendor sale money and item level... Any ideas what I did wrong? --Dracomage 10:44, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * Well, this page shows the mini-version of tooltip instead of the full one. I think it may have something to do with the difference between item name ("Hurricane") and page name ("Hurricane (bow)"). -- Vysogota 12:14, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * That's exactly it. I changed the name in the Tooltip template to "Hurricane (bow)" and did a preview and the vendor data showed up. My advice is to just change the name in the Tooltip to match the page name. - ClydeJr 12:46, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * I don't think this is a good idea -- it will look like the item name is "Hurricane (bow)", which isn't true. I'd rather suggest making some changes in the tooltip mechanics to fix that problem. -- Vysogota 12:52, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * I think the best way to fix this is to add a parameter to the tooltip template in with which you can overwrite the item name used to compare the pagename with. I will try and make a working test today --  03:08, 9 March 2007 (EST)
 * Did it in a sandbox see the Talk page of Template:Tooltip for more info -- 05:07, 9 March 2007 (EST)

What's up with the red asterisks?
After rare and epic names, there are red asterisks right after 'em... what are they for? --Colinstu 16:38, 9 March 2007 (EST)
 * Leave your cursor over them for a few seconds... :) In your case, it means you should be using the Quality template.--Sky 16:43, 9 March 2007 (EST)
 * hmm? cursor over it and nothing... --Colinstu 22:17, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

The breaking of Aldor vs Scryers
I've begun converting (well, actually, adding) items to the Comparison of Aldor and Scryer rewards article (from /Tooltip to ). Now have a look at the bottom. It isn't showing up right, obviously because of the difference between the old item listing method and Tooltip. How do I go about not completely breaking the order of the page? :)--Sky 02:29, 10 March 2007 (EST)
 * It seems to be the case that the tooltip for Spymaster´s crossbow is breaking the page up try putting a clr behind it or fill in the rest of the items :-) -- 16:16, 10 March 2007 (EST)
 * Aye, the placement of the noinclude tags is key, you gotta make sure everything, including that newline at the end of the tooltip table gets encased in noinclude tags.  16:34, 10 March 2007 (EST)

ASCII Codes
Is there a place on the wiki where we can see a list of the ASCII codes that we can type in the chatbox? You know, "hold ALT and press ### to get a foreign character"? I'm curious because there are so many users and guilds that have the characters in their names, I can't figure some of them out. I didn't make a list, but I did dot ALT-000 all the way until ALT-600 tonight, but couldn't find the character I'm looking for: Ð. I also can't copy-paste this particular character into the game, as it just displays a "?" in the chat box, but many people have used this character in their names...

--Recluse 00:55, 14 March 2007 (EDT)


 * That char is not ASCII, but rather Unicode.  02:13, 14 March 2007 (EDT)


 * UI Escape Sequences -watchout 08:37, 14 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Just an FYI: If you're on the North American realms, you're not supposed to use any of the characters with accents, umlats(sp?), etc in character or guild names. While I don't think they are actively patrolling for names like that, they might ask you to change your name if they have to deal with you in a petition. Plus using those characters makes it tough to actually type in those names. - ClydeJr 12:11, 14 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Most people use them because they look "cool," or a name they want is taken so they use a bearly noticable accent char, like 'í' or 'υ'  12:24, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

Zone quest format
I just noticed the new zone format on Eversong Woods. I really like it. is that going to be the new standard? I have been slowly working on ashenvale quests here and there and I was wondering should I attempt to change it to that format if its going to be the new standard. Thank you. --Yelmurc 18:43, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Wow. That is very pretty there at the bottom. My .--Sky 18:48, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

So does anyone know if one format is preferred over the other? I'd live to know so that I can keep adding one way or the other.--Yelmurc 21:57, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Personally, I think the tabled one is far too busy, and not nearly as easy to read as the indented presentation. I usually text search for the quest name and the indented one allows me to easily see what's next, where the table just has them all plop in the same place. But, that's just me. --Azaram 05:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Site icon
Is it possible to give this site a little icon? You know, the one in the address bar or in your favorites. Your's is one of the few that don't have one. I'm guessing you should use the W stamp to the left. --Colinstu 22:12, 14 March 2007 (EDT)


 * That's called favicon, great idea - didn't really notice it.
 * How about using this one: http://stuff.art-core.org/wowwiki.ico -- Flotsam  | ( talk  /  contr )  23:45, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Wiki Deleted - How to talk to admin?
While I am sure it makes you feel better, your page Soj is a violation of wiki policy. 06:45, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Soj requested that I make the page - and not only he, but many people from the server helped to complete the information held within. Is it still not allowed to be even in these circumstances? The guy is hero on our server! I've seen many other people do similar things? Pandan 06:50, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Erm... not exactly sure the stance on that then. I'll undelete the page pending feedback from the other admins.   06:54, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Should I ask/get him to post it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * If you wish. Give it a lil time for the other admins to comment on the matter.   06:58, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
 * After some discussion in IRC, I think your best bet is to move this into user namespace. Have this Soj guy make an account and move the page to User:Soj.  The only reason I opened the page in the first place was because I was curious if it was an old Stone of Jordan joke, I love asking people "u giev soj?"  Having the article in the global namespace implies more authority to the content, and aslo implies that it is directly related to the game, not a player/realm.  In most cases, user namespace is not patrolled as strictly as the global namespace is.   07:13, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * I'd suspect it'd still in violation of the wiki defamation policy. Just because someone else has managed to escape notice of a policy violation wouldn't make it right for others to do so as well. But I'm not an admin, I'll leave that for them to adjudicate on. I'd suggest a more neutral tone - or at least removal of the defamatory items. Normal 07:19, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * I'd have to agree that calling someone names is punishable. But should you punish someone for calling themself names? I'll get him to make an account in the morning (AUS time) Thanks for feedback, opinions welcomed :) -Pandan


 * So I stumbled on this page via the Recent Changes scanning. My immediate reaction was to flag it due to its tone and content being completely lost to me. While I'm sure yourself, Soj and the rest of your Server find this highly amusing, and as such understand the semantics, others may not come to the same conclusion. Therefore I would suggest removing the sarcasm and "private jokes" and actually making it informative, because you'll have a lot more people raising eyebrows at this than I'm sure it's worth.


 * Document it on your Realm Forum or unofficial realm website, but with the audience size of Wowwiki I'm pretty sure this article will be lost on them; at least it was to me. 08:16, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Perhaps it needs to be flagged with or some other "don't take this seriously" tag?  08:25, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Yep that would work too, I guess. Still, doesn't seem in the spirit of a pedia 08:36, 15 March 2007 (EDT)


 * There's a silly tag? lol -Pandan


 * The problem about 'calling oneself names' is that it'd be impossible to link the WoW Account holder (therefore the toon) to the author of the page. Well, if it ever came to a law suit it may be possible, but the amount of work required would be horrendous as well as counter-productive. Normal 16:36, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

(Unindenting) Why not just move it to a subpage of whichever server this person happens to play on (obviously I have no clue which...). Really, that should have been where it was from the get go. :x--Sky 16:41, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

~ Protect civil rights ~
Moved to User talk:Whitewolf -- 06:37, 16 March 2007 (EDT)