Talk:Common (language)

Guards
""Goibon Uden Lo" = "Guards!" or "Guards help me!" "Uden" = "Help" "

- seriously doubting the validity of that. Remember, the gameplay language in WoW is not the real language. That's just "for show". Real language you can find rarely in lore/books/past games/on items. Can someone confirm for me if this is what the Alliance civilians yell out when attacked, as I suspect it is?

--Wasted 02:26, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Yes, it is. Word & Phrase List (speculation) section mixes "real" common and translator-generated common and this should be resolved in some way. --Rowaasr13 07:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

"Goibon Uden Lo" is made from the same in-game word parser used for the translator, which automatically puts the concept of "real common" into doubt. These parsers are used in much the same way as ingame parsers for draconic, kalimag, demonic, and titan. Which are used to make up phrases that sound like their respective languages. That's not to say those words would have the same meaning in actual context in world, as the same words get used, in slightly different orders for other phrases said by human that are fought in the game. Because the terms are made up of the words from the "parser" it is questionable, due to the randomly generated nature, and for all we know the translator is just masking the words in the same way it does for players trying to talk to each other. If it had contained unique words not found in the parser then the translation would be more trustworthy, have better grounds to be considered "real" common.Baggins 16:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact that the words match not only words from the parser list, but the number of letters to the supposed translation underscores this. This sentence shouldn't be specifically listed, imo. -- 20:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Notes on Translating Common
One letter Common translations

Two letter Common translations

That's basically all I could figure out for now, feel free to correct or expand this list. Xaque 02:20, 26 November 2006 (EST)

Common Primer and the English language
While Common does share words from the english language, let's not go out of our way including every single english word. The primer is mostly to list words that are specific to the fictional language of Common, unless a source goes out of its way to point out a word in which common and english share the same word and definition. For example I listed Dwarf = Dimunitive as Brann Bronzebeard pointed out that designation. But I wouldn't take some random word like, "sandwich" and go about explaining what it meant in both Common and English because no Blizzard source has gone out of its way explaining etymology and meaning behind the word "sandwich". If a source was to later make a big deal about the meaning of "sandwich" then it would be ok to refrence said word in the primer.Baggins 19:36, 25 December 2006 (EST)


 * On further reading, I've found words that Brann has said are specifically "Common terms", although he doesn't necessarily go into definitions. I've added them to the list because of this, and added a real world definition if applicable..Baggins 16:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Deo Gracias
Deo Gracias is Latin. The WC2 church sound was made before Common was established in lore, and I'm pretty sure that in true Common, they have different words for 'god' and thank'. -- 15:16, 15 April 2007 (EDT)


 * In standard Common language, god is god and thank you is thank you, kind of like slave and thrall mean the same thing in english.. True common has more in common with english language in the way its treated in most of the games and RPG with smidgeons of original words created for their language, :p... Besides the Deo Gracias entry is kind of an "easter egg" anyways, an homage to WC2's Human Paladins, and gives definition for anyone who might be curious. Anycase it fits better in so called "human language" than it would be to create a brand new article on "Latin" which i'm pretty sure doesn't exist in the universe at all, ;). On a similar note, the same thing occurs with Trolls who have spanish, or huttese as part of their "Zandali" language, and I wouldn't go about creating Huttese or Spanish articles when obviously intended to be tied to troll language.Baggins 15:31, 15 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Alright, fair enough. Anyone have a transcription of the WC2 Wizard's tower then? I always thought it sounded like 'unimae valimados' or some such. -- 20:53, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm having a hard time making it out. last word sounds like "deus", imo.Baggins

I edited the article and hopefully the "Deo Gracias" part pleases everyone for now. Regards, --Theron the Just 00:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I removed the "Deo Gracias" link to this article from the Clerics of Northshire article. My reason for doing so is that I do not see it as relevant to the article. The lines "Deo Gracias" is an refence to "God" alright, but the issue itself is another story.


 * For the person that changed "gracias" to "gratias" while its true they mean the same thing, the sound file in Warcraft II was specifically the "ss", c sound like "Grossias", not a "t" sound, "grotsia".Baggins 01:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Baggains, you yourself said Latin isn't Spanish on this talk page, yet seem to think that Church Latin is pronounced like Spanish. With a Church Latin pronunciation, "gracias" would be pronounced "gra-chi-as." "Gratias," on the other hand, would be pronounced "gra-tsi-as," since in Church Latina a "t" followed by an "i" is pronounced like the Italian "z." So the person who changed "gracias" to "gratias" was correct. I won't revise it, however, since no one probably cares.--Wenry the mage (talk) 02:16, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Other Races
This page mostly says humans speak english (common, whatever). But on some other pages it says the Pandaren's main language is common. And in the Nerubian page, it lists common as a first langauage, even though it says most learn it. So could someone put something that other races speak it. Mr.X8 02:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised that 10,000 years ago the night elves spoke exactly the same dialect of common as humans do today.


 * In the novel War of the Ancients, the night elves were able to talk to Rhonin, Krasus, and Broxigar. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 11:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That's what I mean. You'd have thought that the language would have changed over time.


 * Maybe when those three went into the past some sort of magic made them understand the night elves and vice versa? I don't know. I don't think the early humans back then even spoke the dialect they do now. They spoke the dialect called the "ancient tongue". Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 13:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

"En fuego" - Latin?
A part of a previous version of the article, which I have now changed, read: "..."en fuego", Latin/Spanish for "on fire"..." As far as I can tell with my rather limited knowledge of either Latin or Spanish, "en fuego" is a Spanish expression, but not Latin. Wiktionary told me that the Spanish word "fuego" is derived from Latin "focus" which means "hearth" or "fireplace" and as far as I know there are no inflection rules in Latin that can change "focus" to "fuego". :) PRH 18:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya, not direct latin, although spanish is a language derived from latin.Baggins 18:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Common not "automagically" learned
If Common is somehow "known" by everyone then why did the Orcs say they had to learn the language of the planet they invaded (Azeroth). Also, why would there be different types of Common? I think Common is like English. The Humans speak Common, and since they are the most influential race, other races do too. It has become an international type of language. They somehow influenced the naming of the planet Azeroth, the continent Azeroth, the subcontinent of Azeroth, etc.    Rolandius  ( talk  -  contr ) 11:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You might not know this but there are different kinds of English currently and historically by region... Ever heard of dialects, pidjins and creoles? Have you ever heard of Old English?Baggins (talk) 03:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point. English is like Common. It has different types and changes over time for some regions. If someone from another planet came to Earth they wouldn't suddenly know english. I am trying to say is that Common is learned, not automatically known.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 04:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Think of it this way one region (Draenor) and another region (Azeroth) may have knowledge of seperate dialects of Common. Similar to how different regions of Earth might have different types of English. As it is there is no history as to where Common first developed. It could be a Titan dialect for all we know (they visited nearly everywhere). It does seem to share some commonalities. As it is we haven't been told exact details of the history of Common, just that it a kind of universal language for pretty much every race.Baggins (talk) 04:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If it is a universal language, even with dialects, then wouldn't it be the primary language of all the races? Although we don't have a history of Common, it isn't like a proto-language where everything came out of Common. The Orcs came to Azeroth and had to learn Common. They didn't know it already and wouldn't have ever known it if they never visited Azeroth.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 04:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In the rpg it actually is a primary language for most civilized races. Nearly every race knows it. Those that don't know the lesser Common, the so-called "Low Common" language as their primary language. Infact many races are said to have two primary languages, Common plus their race language.


 * However, that doesn't mean that every race with Common or Low Common primary languages automatically knows the regional dialects they encounter, or be able to communicate. Thus the gnoll Low Common (which is made up of primarily barks) isn't necessarily similar to the kobold version of Low Common, for example. Murloc Nerglish, isn't necessarily similar to Makrura Nerglish. A gnoll isn't necessarily going to understand the kobold.


 * Thus a native Draenor Common or Low Common doesn't necessarily have much in common (pardon the pun) with a native Azeroth dialect of Common.


 * When it comes to the Common language all we have is vague definitions given in the RPG, and occasonal references in other sources. Anything beyond what the article currently says in the subject would be pure fan speculation.Baggins (talk) 04:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes but if you look at the language template it says their primary language, and every race almost has their own primary language. Common is more like secondary or sometimes not known. I mean look at humans. We only know Common. It says Orcish is the Orcs' primary language. Draenei know Draenei. Pandaren know Pandaren. It goes on and on. If Common was the primary language then it would say in that language template "Common" all over the place.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 05:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First off the language template only states, "races and their languages" it doesn't say those languages are their "primary languages".


 * Secondly, the language template is a navigation tool for World of Warcraft game mechanics. Its to make it easier for people who play the MMO to link to their races secondary languages as it appears in the game. As you might know in MMO mechanics Horde has Orcish as its primary language, and Common for the Alliance. Whereas their racial languages are atctually considered secondary languages in-game.


 * However, it should be noted that the MMO's primary languages, aren't necessarily primary languages for the races in lore. The second half of the template is to show if a well known or popular race has a confirmed racial language, but it isn't necessarily listing all their "primary languages". If you want to know each races primary languages look at infobox for each race.


 * Yes, mechanics can be confusing... But don't try to think too hard on it, or take mechanics too seriously... or you'll just fry your brain...Baggins (talk) 05:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL Ok, I will just go with the flow and rest my head tonight for more puzzles tomorrow.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 05:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

No speculation of terms allowed.
This is a warning not to armchair translate words like "Caer Darrow", or "Dalaran" based on assumptions made from similar words in Warcraft languages. All translations should be properly cited, and confirmed. If you can confirm that a word has a true english definition then link to the source. Also don't apply earth based grammar to the terms to make broad generalized definitions of a phrase.

If you don't have a direct citation and think that you have "figured out" the definition to a word then use the speculation section to list your idea. Do not put it in the main part of the article proper.Baggins (talk) 21:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)