Talk:Hard mode

Massive Additions
I just recently added a lot of content to this page. I believe the sections about Yogg-Saron and Algalon have sufficient citations since you can see those achievements in-game. If there is further proof needed, a Blizzard CM confirmed that realm first titles would be given to Yogg-Saron hard mode kills and Algalon kills only. (I can try to find the post if you wish.) I did not cite the additions for Flame Leviathan, XT-002 Deconstructor, Freya, Mimiron, Hodir, Thorim, and General Vezax because they are all present on the PTR. I can try to cite them if you wish but it is fairly apparent to anyone who has done the encounters on the PTR that the information for those seven bosses are accurate. if you have any issues with anything, please discuss them here.

P.S. Is it okay to start making articles for the Ulduar achievements yet? I think they're in a pretty solid state now. Most of them got renamed and such last build. -- Dcemuser (talk) 21:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Awards
Perhaps someone who knows about this should add what are the awards of defeating a boss in hard more. Achievements, titles, mounts, loot.

What about the loot ... it is better in hard mode than in normal mode, but take a look at Hodir: He has 3 hard modes but only normal and hard mode loot. Is the hard mode loot for the simpliest hard mode or only for the hardest? --Nalumis (talk) 09:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * At the moment the loot is still being added to the bosses by Blizzard so we do not know all of the Normal mode vs Heroic mode loot vs Hard mode yet - there are some out there but they are still adding / changing as a result of testing on the PTR servers.  But in order of progression so far (still subject to change on PTR servers) your best loot is the Heroic (25-player) Hard mode [ Item level 239 ] the harder the the situation the better the loot -- then you have the Heroic mode (25-player) loot [ Item level 232 ] then the Normal Hard mode (10-player) [ Item level 226 ] in some cases this loot can be a little better than Heroic mode then you have Normal mode (10-player) loot [ Item level 219 ].
 * Incase you did not catch it there are 10-player Hard modes as well as 25-player Hard modes as well - so lots of loot to attach aswell as alot of testing to do (still).
 * (M o r p h | C  | T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif 14:40, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Bug Triumvirate
It'd probably be a good idea to stick a mention for the Bug Triumvirate somewhere here.

Does Hard mode require raid?
From looking at the list, only raid instances appear to have hard mode encounters, but it would be nice to have that explicitly spelled out. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 5:42 PM PST 7 May 2009
 * I can not think of any non-raids that have hard modes in them, as far as I can tell only Raids have them -- (M o r p h | C  | T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif 03:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Dire Maul North
DM North has a hard mode, the Tribute Run. It wasn't a raid and didn't have epic loot but you did get improved drops from the chest at the end if you left guards alive. TheDewd (talk) 17:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes but only improved loots, not improved difficulty, so does it really belong here ?
 * Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 18:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if it is not considered hard mode (although I personally do think the final boss fight is more challenging in a Tribute Run), the following statement is clearly wrong: "Zul'Aman was the second raid where loot varied depending on what the players did." The outcome in DM North definitely depends on player decisions.
 * Furthermore, does the mere presence of a timer (Zul'Aman) already make an encounter "hard"? In that case, one could argue that 45 min baron run is hard mode as well. --Bfx (talk) 18:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Zul'Aman should have been discussed before adding it. On one side it is a "better loot if...", but the speed to clean the instance is not a real difficulty; for me it does not belong here.
 * Strat Baron 45 added no more loot for being done in due time, this is a false exemple.
 * As far as I can tell, Hard Mode requires Raid.
 * 19:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * IIRC, Baron Run offered additional reputation, which at least falls under the category "increased reward". --Bfx (talk) 12:19, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Baron 45 was only a requirement for a quest, the loot table did not change when done.
 * 12:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not talking about the loot table. Killing Rivendare in less than 45 min grants more reputation. --Bfx (talk) 15:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oo can you get a screen (of both version) or something? Not that I don't believe you, but speaking of reputation give me THE doubt...
 * 16:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * For now, I can only give you links (Argent Dawn mentions it, as well as some pages mentioned in this google search), but I will make screenshots soon. --Bfx (talk) 18:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * DM north and Stratholme are not raids. Furthermore I think ZA absolutely need to be mention in this article. And a lot of encounters hard mode is just a timer, Hodir, Mimiron and so on. We could change the section name to pre-hard mode hard modes and put in everything, even non raids.Wolfenstein (talk) 09:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Mimiron is not a timer-only hard mode. But considering Hodir is a timer hard mode only Strat 45 should be added imo.
 * 12:13, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right Wolfenstein, my fault; I didn't notice that it refers specifically to raids. Anyways, is there any official definition of hard mode? Was it an arbitrary decision to limit it to raids? If it simply means better rewards, I don't conceive why normal dungeons should not be included. --Bfx (talk) 14:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)