Talk:Pandaren

Wishful thinking
Let's not make up lore based on wishful thinking for the Expansion. If you can provide some links to some of this info, please do.
 * --Bevans (FeldmanSkitzoid) 14:25, 30 Nov 2005 (EST)

Night elves' obsession
"As the night elves' obsession with the forces of magic drove them to the brink of madness"

Remember, back at this point in time, the Night Elves and High Elves were still the same race. This choice of magic embrace is what split them up and evolved them in different directions. --Xmuskrat 09:57, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Who wrote that they "still had to forgive" the Night Elves ? My beloved Pandas would have to press the F5 button, nowadays they barely use shadowy magic (ie arcane, fire, water and dark, except for shadow priests)--Kirochi 15:45, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

About this madness
Thanks Xmuskrat for removing for another time the hoax about Pandaren being deleted because of Asian commercial reasons. I've made a goofy theory about those people who invent such rumors :
 * 1) They're Chinese agents trying to make us think that they can cause a threat to an American company ;
 * 2) They're people who heard once a rumor and since never wanted to verify it but claiming it everywhere ;
 * 3) They're just Panda haters who would have deserved choking at birth.

Just kidding of course (-;--Kirochi 15:45, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

I believe this has a lot to due with the demographics of WoW in Asia and history of Asia. It is being played in (correct me if I'm wrong) China(including Taiwan) and South Korea. As a part of China, Taiwan would identify with its culture. Some citizens of South Korea and China hate the Japanese for raping, massacring, and claiming they were racially superior to them in World War II like at the Rape of Nanking and comfort brides. Since this game is not being played in Japan (correct me if that was wrong), I guess it would make business sense that the Pandarens not have Japanese cultural traits. TopDread 01:32, 27 February 2007 (EST) Come on, the main culture that's thought of when pandas come into mind are the Chinese. The last thing that comes to mind are Indians. Pandas lean highly toward Chinese in culture, and is practically associated with them. I mean, come on, we have Panda Express for Chinese fastfood too. Giant Pandas basically don't exist outside of China, except for those sent to zoos abroad.

And also, we're several generations away from the Rape of Nanking. The average teenager doesn't think that much about the Japanese. They're about as entranced by the Japanese as much as the average Anime fanboy. As far as the mainstream demographic is concerned, Japan is a place that churns out cute stuff non-stop. Sure, there are people still angered over Japan's actions, but that was like.... a billion years ago. Most of the people that still hate Japan probably aren't going to play WoW anyways.Pzychotix 11:37, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

I don't think people are rolling trolls in this game to gain some deep insight into Afro-Carribean society and culture.. Likewise Samwise Didier, Blizzard's creative director, created Pandarens originally as a joke. It's not like he has a profound grasp of Asian culture. He designed them around kung fu and samurai films he enjoys. Also, I hate whenever this happens on the Internet, but please no dissertations on the society of other people in places you don't know about or have never visited. Please. It doesn't do anything to make you look intelligent. Anti-Japanese sentiment is still very much around in the youth of Asia despite what you think (I'm Korean myself), but that doesn't stop them from enjoying something that's Japanese influenced in a VIDEO GAME. There is WoW in Japan, also.

Honestly I am a bit disappointed in the direction Panderans are going. Yes, they're cool, but it's way too "Chinese". All the races in this game have no correlation to races and cultures in our own world except in the barest of details, like architecture or one or two cultural protocols. But in every sense of the word, all the races in WoW are their OWN races. Why should the creative team stop making races that look genuinely their own instead of copping out and borrowing a bunch of ideas from an existing culture?--Grid 08:13, 19 December 2006 (EST)

Tuskarr are totally Esquimaux, Tauren are totally Plains Indian... what's your point? Saimdusan 01:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

There are pretty good reasons to make them primarily Chinese
Adding other East Asian cultures is one thing but blending in Hindu, Indian influences is a bit much, you have to look at what will work best in terms of visual and spiritual style. Buddhist elements would be fine as large numbers of Chinese Japanese and South-East Asians adopted and modified it. But Hinduism is beyond the pale in this regarde, also maybe making them primarily Chinese is to keep from insulting Chinese or Japanese nationals who seem to detest being lumped together.

The Orcish Blademaster already emulate Japanese Bushido culture, not to mention their strangely Japanese accent. Panadren should be more chinese since Panda are technically Chinese in the first place. I cannot imagine an Indian/Hindu panda --Invin Dranoel 08:34, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

to bad there are no more blademasters in wow. they were in wc3 but only that for some odd reason. unless im just missing something here. i want a panda Stormrage1313666

Remember that human cultures are not a blueprint, just a guide
The Pandaren are not the only culture in warcraft to reflect one in the real world. However, these are inspirations, NOT homages or reasonable facsimiles. Daoist philosophies have not always been the primary Chinese mindset. Similarly, the Aqiri do not reflect Egyptian culture from any one dynasty. To ask that either of these be limited to what exists in the real world is to put a leash on the creativity of the development team. As such, these factors WILL weigh in, but will not represent the final product to a T.

The "Panda" Furbolg skin
So, what are your thoughts on this -? --Vorbis 08:54 June 13, 2006 (GMT)
 * PANDA PANDA PANDA *(*_*)* Those are my only thoughts,forgive me ^^

The Furbolgs have needed new skins since the beginning of WoW, and the necklace this model wears is doubtless : this is a Furbolg *cries*.--Kirochi 08:38, 13 June 2006 (EDT)

Looks nothing like a panda nor pandaren --Invin Dranoel 07:50, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

That's what they said about the Warcraft III Pandaren - which also used a Furbolg mesh. --Vorbis 15:20 Oct 1, 2006 (GMT)

what is that picture, it's scary looking!

I don't care..
People are making a big deal over Pandaren. People keep complaining about pandren. They shouldn't. WHats wrong with Pandren?? THeir fine. SO what if their based on Asian Cultures. I think people take stuff like this too seriously. Also i have a question.. The Pandaren in TFT. Are they French? I mean the way they speak.--Pure rimming


 * Well, there was a stupid fad that spread out, saying that Pandaren'd never appear in WoW because WoW is currently released in China and that China forbids any image of a dead/being killed Panda. This is total bullcrap, as W3 TFT already featured killable Pandaren. I also have several Chinese friends who swore to me that there was no such custom in China, let alone any law or rule forbidding a killable Panda in video games.
 * About the way they speak : I don't know, as I'm French and I've played TFT in French I can't really tell. They just don't have any particular accent in French, except for the fact that they are a bit like Dwarves, without the gruff voice.
 * A common translation in French of a French accent in English is a very classy or slow way to speak, associated with Old French words. Nothing such in TFT for the Pandaren's speech.-- K )  (talk) 08:45, 15 January 2007 (EST)


 * No one brought it up but the panda pet can be killed in game. All it takes is a flame based AOE attack, or standing in fire.Baggins 11:37, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Yup, all minipets have "Death" animations.-- K )  (talk) 13:15, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Yeah I have to agree with this guy. My best friend is from Hong Kong and he got Warcraft 3 in China, and like some people said, theyre are killable pandaren in the game, so that is total B.S. about a law in China that you cant have pictures or make pictures of dead pandas, besides who would want to make or buy dead panda pictures. I only know about some weird kid that used to be in my class that would buy dead animal pictures, and he got expelled! and whats TFT?


 * Sign your posts... TFT = The Frozen ThroneBaggins


 * See: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panda -- Nils 04:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ohoho, obviously you've never been to 4chan, but I'm gonna spare you all the details of this.  D:  Shouldn't the 'Pandaren Relaxation Spring' secret be in RoC and not TFT?  Or was it added after TFT came out.  --Super Bhaal 19:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Relations
Does anyone know how the Pandaren treat High Elves since theyre either neutral like them, or Alliance like their Dwarf friends?Mr.X8 00:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No. The biggest issue we're having with Pandaren is that we can't see them in WoW. They seem to be disgusted by all elves (hey, just like Trolls... hmmm, interesting) since they have understood magic (say, arcane) addiction runs through their veins.-- K )  (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I just thought since there is a picture of a Pandaren fighting with a High Elf and 2 humans against the orcs they might like High Elves.Mr.X8 00:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * A pic's a pic. Artists often know, about the universe they're representing, nothing but what the races look like.
 * And even if this alliance was drawn on purpose, this'd be only an individual that had decided to help the Alliance.-- K )  (talk) 20:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I don't think they worry about the elves in the Alliance much currently. The RPG says that they have plenty of a relationship with the Alliance, especially theramore and bael moden dwarves (so they have plenty of contact with the high elves of theramore). They did have issues with the night elves & highborne that practiced magic at one time though. That could still cause them trouble since many high elves who still practice magic (though not all of them). The picture can be showing the rare few pandaren and high elves that have worked together in Theramore.Baggins 20:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Pandaren prefer Alliance/Pandaran-Furbolg relations
Where does it say this? On an unrelated note, I am upset that Blizzard decided for Furbolgs and Pandaren to be related, it just perpetuates the false belief that pandas are bears. Saimdusan 01:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't believe it says that here. It's actually said that Pandaren would probably more likely join the Horde, due to their closer connections in spirituality, but they prefer to be neutral.
 * And pandas ARE bears. They belong to the Ursidae family. Although they do not belong in the same families as most other common bears, they are still considered as bears. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 03:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Pandaren and furbolgs being related makes perfect sense in my book; actually I'd be surprised if they weren't, both being humanoid bears with very similar characteristics. Actually, I cannot think of any races which could be more similar without being subspecies. --


 * The familial relationship between pandaren and furbolg is probably about the same as a human and a chimpanzee (or more accurately, a panda and a grizzly). -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * In sharing 98% of their DNA, yes. In regards to sapience, no. --


 * ???????? Did I say anything about mental capacity? -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 19:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No... I was probably reading too far into that. ^^ --

We don't know that pandaren and furbolgs are exactly as closely related to each others as pandas and brown bears. Just because they resemble those animals doesn't mean the relationship is exactly parallel. That's like saying harpies, satyr, and naga are as related to each other as birds, goats, and snakes, which certainly isn't true. -- 20:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "It's actually said that Pandaren would probably more likely join the Horde"


 * The Alliance & Horde Compendium is the source that says that most Pandaren prefer to be "neutral", it also states though of those that have chosen to interact with the races of the world, "most" are found with the Alliance, and that "some" have found themselves closer to the "Horde". Its interesting to note that of the only Pandaren we have seen interacting with the Horde, Chen Stormstout, he was also interacting with the Kalimdor Alliance as well, with Jaina.Baggins 20:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

As for relationship between pandaren and furbolgs? The hypotheses given are that furbolg evolves from pandaren or that pandaren evolved from furbolg. Its also interesting to note that furbolg's believe they existed before the coming of the titans.Baggins 21:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Woah... Pandas ARE　bearｓ？ Looks like I　ｗａｓ　ｗｒｏｎｇ．　Ｂｕｔ　Ｉ　ｓｔｉｌｌ　ｄｏｎｔ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ　ｗｈｙ　ｔｈｅ Pandaren are closer to the Alliance (they are shamanistic and anti-arcane, similar to orcs and tauren), and why this ****ＩＮＧCOMPUTERＫＥＥＰＳCHANGINGＦＯＮＴＳFORＮＯＲＥＡＳＯＮ！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！　Ｓｏｒｒｙ　’ｂｏｕｔ　ｔｈａｔ．．．　ａｎｙｗａｙ，　Ｉ　ｇｕｅｓｓ　ｉｔｓ　ｋｉｎｄａ　ｓｉｍｉｌａｒ　ｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｆａｃｔ　ｔｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ＮＥhave more cultural similarities to the Horde (IMO) but chose Alliance instead... except, IMO, choosing the Alliance was because of the fact that Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes look similar to them... wouldn't be true in the case of Pandaren. Saimdusan 12:35, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * They AREN'T closer to the alliance. I don't know where you keep getting this idea. They're Neutral. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 14:27, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Psychotix yes they are "neutral", but the Alliance & Horde companion states, and I quote,


 * "Their outlook meshes well with the Alliance, and most pandaren in Kalimdor are found in the company of Alliance races...Pandaren are eccentric, however, and some feel more at home around the Horde."

-Baggins 17:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Im just throwing this out there, but don't you guys think that Panadren could be like druids and/or hunters, since theyre a nature loving race?Mr.X8 00:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Pandas are not bears in RL they are oversized foxes.-- 00:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

As far as religion goes, yeah the horde is perfect for them. But I believe that they do not wish to join it because they believe the races that make it up need to heal and find their own places in the world before they can befriend them.

Actually I think them joining the allies may be more probable. Not only do they hang out in allied Taverns, they are good friends with Dwarves, Half-elves, and travelers alike. Also as Saim noted, their culture does seem like the night elves in a round about sort of way.

As for the neutral thing, Goblins are neutral but they are usually working for the horde, and they have in the past. What is stopping a neutral race for joining a faction competely? Even if it's only a fragment of the whole. Just my opinion on the subject Rannulf 06:19, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "Pandas are not bears in RL they are oversized foxes.--SWM2448 00:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)"
 * Old comments but I must respond, I don't know where you heard that, but Pandas are in Ursidae the same Family as bears. Foxes are in the Family Canidae, same family as dogs. So yes Pandas are closer to bears than foxes. Both Families are in the Order Canivora.


 * Rannulf, actually Blizzard plays up the Goblins as being neutral race in charge of many neutral towns. yes some have been hired as mercnaries by the horde, but so have some for the alliance. Most likely you'll never see playable goblins, they serve an importance for neutral bases in the world.Baggins 06:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm well aware of their neutral policy, but that doesn't mean that their isn't a faction of them that would like to ally with the horde, same with our panda friends. You never know what plot twist Blizz may throw in. Though as far as goblins go, I understand where you are coming from. They are to integrated into WoW right now to join a faction, put Pandarens are nothing but rumors in the game. Also we know very little over all about their views and culture in comparision to other races. Though, like the goblins, they will probaly stay neutral for a very long time because of their peaceful way. Though if they did, indeed, join a faction it will probaly be Alliance in the several reasons stated above, as the goblins would most likely join the horde. Rannulf 07:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Well.. Goblin's are ruled by 5 rulers the Trade Princess, maby later on in the game there will come some epansion in wich there IS a Goblin for the Horde and a Pandaren for Alliance. Horde Goblins being just one of the 5 major goblin factions since they don't report to oneother and the Pandaren just being the part that split off and went living in Stonetalon? posibility? Why not? Aldor = Dranei, Scryer = Blood Elf? Can't they befriend both factions Horde and Alliance aswell? --CaiuNariz

The Pandaren are neutral, and any realtions which could be made to the alliance can just aswell be made to the horde, true they like the drink as much as the dwarves. But they have also been noted to sympathize with the shin'dorei and the orcs. Not to mention don't these peaceful creatures seem to show much more relation to the tauren than any other race? They are both peaceful, loving, and caring creatures. 18:34, 20 Feburary 2008--Jamescobler


 * Point of note, between a cryptic message in Horde Player's Guide and some updated information in Dark Factions, the faction of goblins that once joined the horde was apparently the Steamwheedle Cartel, under possibly Trade Prince Steamwheedle. Considering the importance of Steamwheedle cartel in current game as a neutral goblin faction I find it very unlikely they'd make them playable. Dark Factions specifically states that only a single trade prince and his subordinates joined the Horde. The rest of the race refused, and afterwards he realized his "mistake", and would never rejoin them again.


 * As for updates to pandaren information as given in Dark Factions well they are still neutral, still favoring the alliance somewhat more than the Horde, and apparently they have mended their friendships with the night elves. As one might remember they were friends of the night elves long before the War of the Ancients, and broke up when the Highborne started meddaling with magic for dark purposes. Generally speaking they apparently don't have much of a problem with some types of magic, just how the magic is used. They don't like "mad obsession with magic" according to Dark Factions. Its said that their geomancy beliefs mirror night elves beliefs, though different than other races beliefs (that is geomancy mirrors both shamanism and druidism).


 * They are still big friends of the dwarves, and many have traveled to Khaz Modan. Apparently they may have recently been adapting dwarven rifle technology into their armies, see rifleman. Baggins (talk) 03:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Chances are if pandaren do eventually make it into WoW, they'll likely be a reputation faction like the Kalu'ak. Deepred (talk) 22:15, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Picture
Some time back there used to be a picture of a pandaren in WoW with armor on (plate armor), and what appeared to be a 2h sword. Does anyone know where that picture was from and what is it called?  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  03:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Samwise Didier drew it. Try Sons of the Storm.  Or was it an in-game model?  If it's that, then I got nothin'.  --Super Bhaal 03:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm PRETTY sure it looked like an ingame model. It was next to a picture that showed Blood Elves and Pandaren as the new races. The BE used the old model, and had no weapon it it's hand.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  04:31, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I found it on. I remember seeing the full body and surroundings, but when I clicked on the picture, it brought me to some other website. OOps, found the actual pic,.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  04:36, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Reason for absence?
I have heard that the reason for the absence of Pandaren in WoW is that the Asian market for WoW(and we all know how big that is) will suffer as some laws restrict any reference to pandas and violence in movies, videogames and such. The only reason I can think of is to reduce poaching, correct or comment on this please. Valros 00:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a law in Chengdu province, yes. There are MMOs featuring pandas in China but I think this is a primary reason for Blizzard erring on the side of caution and not putting pandaren in WoW as a player races. [ http://www.china.org.cn/english/environment/232989.htm ] Panjandrum (talk) 21:49, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was a proposed law that didn't pass. [[Image:IconSmall Draenei Female.gif]] Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib 02:29, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Female
I found what seems to be a female pandaren 

It says "acces denied" for me...  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  18:54, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That is a fox. Female pandarens (at least young ones) look like this.-- 20:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Although point of note that's not technically a "pandaren" in as much its not actually warcraft artwork, but just part of his personal artwork. Although if it ever shows up in an official source or gets copyrighted to Blizzard it could become official pandaren artwork. If he had put it in his Blizzard warcraft artwork section along with the kitsune picture, I'd have created and article about the kitsune. But currently it would be off topic.Baggins 20:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Feral Pandaren
Are the Feral Pandaren in Northend the same as the ones that fought in the game Warcraft III? Those two links go to the same unit page. Rolandius (talk) 06:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No such thing as "Feral Pandaren", just Pandaren using a furbolg model. The units are simply called "Pandaren". Feral would be a discription based on their appearance, not an official designation of their attitude. As for "fought in Warcraft III" what level or map?Baggins (talk) 06:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Pandaren in WoW comics
There is a Pandaren on page 3 of the WoW comic "Descent" in the crowd of people. Reason why I say this? Nice bonus, and proves that there are Pandaren in Ironforge. Archmage Rodyn (talk) 01:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Scan please.Baggins (talk) 01:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/darthnave/lastscan-1.jpg Archmage Rodyn (talk) 02:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Can be enlarged for purposes of hte article (or will that ruin the quality)? No need to circle it in the next scan.Baggins (talk) 03:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Not with what I have. Archmage Rodyn (talk) 01:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Here is a larger version of the same image: [[File:Comic-pandaren.jpg]] [[Image:IconSmall Draenei Female.gif]] Farseer Lolotea • talk • contrib 09:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

World of Warcraft model discovered !
I am not sure it's all new, but I just found a Pandaren model ! His skeleton is based on the Tuskarr's. I wonder when he will show up ingame... Magus Eldred (talk) 18:00, 29 september 2009 (UTC)
 * Aww! --Super Bhaal (talk) 17:19, September 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * According to MMO it's a mini-pet, but there's no information on where it comes from. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk)
 * I hope that if we ever see Pandaren NPCs ingame, Blizzard will update them so that they dont share the same skeleton as Tuskarr Aedror42 (talk) 18:57, September 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * It was info that came only from datamining, so I have removed it.-- 23:12, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Rumors, Pandas, and China
There seems to be conflicting information about the rumors to the effect that the Chinese are preventing Pandaren from being implemented in WoW, so perhaps these two paragraphs in the "history of rumors" section could be edited in order not to contradict each other:

1. Another persistent rumor regarding their non-inclusion in the game is that there is a law in China prohibiting any depiction of violence against pandas, even anthropomorphic pandas, even in a video game. This rumor is, in fact, baseless. Not only does such a law not exist, but there is at least one Chinese MMO that does feature both PvP and a playable race of pandas.

2. During the discussion panel at Blizzcon 2009, it was stated that the Pandaren have not had an increased presence in the game due to legal issues with China.

Is there or is there not a Chinese law prohibiting Blizzard from putting Pandaren in WoW? Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 04:52, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not really a question of there being a law but what Chinese censors would allow. I don't think the only reason Pandarens don't exist is cowing to hypothetical pressure from the Chinese authorities, but there is plenty of evidence (read forum threads about WotLK in China) to suggest they wouldn't take kindly to it. Shipoopi (talk) 05:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a cite for point number 2? I watched the stream of BlizzCon 2009 and I don't remember hearing anything about that. The only thing I've ever heard Blizzard say in regards to problems with China and Pandaren is that the original April Fool's Joke of Samurai Pandas was a no-go due to mixing a Japanese archetype with a Chinese symbol. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the person was stating that those contradictory points were both being made in the article at the time. Shipoopi (talk) 09:28, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Mistgard?
I was checking out the Sons of the Storm webpage to look at Samwises artwork. Then I stumbled upon this: ... which made me wonder what could that name mean. While I was looking at some more art I found this: ... and MINDBLOWINGLY THIS: !

My thought is that Mistgard is the name of the Pandaren capital city.

PS(the links are from wowpedia because they are broken on the SotS website)

Discuss —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * As you said at Forum:Guys... I think I found something.. I would dismiss it because it is found in his personal gallery, and not his Warcraft gallery. Until Blizzard uses it elsewhere, I would say it is just his personal joke.-- 18:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)