User talk:WrathOfDeathfrost

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Mechagnome
Hi WrathOfDeathfrost. You said that there is uncomfirmed information mixed with confirmed facts in the mechagnome article. As you were the one who added most of the information, can I ask you to separate it into two sections (one for speculation and other for confirmed facts)? I'm asking this because people without much knowledge can come and read the article but would not know what is real and what is speculation; and I would do it myself but I have very limited knowledge of the mechagnomes. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 22:01, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I might give it a shot. I already know it's common custom to place unproven info in a 'Speculation'-section, but the reason I didn't add this on the mechagnome-article is because most of the information of it, be it speculated or actual, is pretty too much "connected" or "intervined" to separate with any good outcome. Hard to explain (...) Still, as said, I'll see what I can do. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 23:41, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see, then it was difficult to separate the info, but it appears you managed to do it. Thanks for your hard work :). Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:24, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Citation
While your excessive contributions are appreciated, and not necessarily inaccurate, I ask that you please add where you got the information, even if you are summarizing general knowledge. Thank you in advance.-- 00:43, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * All the info I use to improve articles with is gathered from other wowwiki-articles. I've also thought that it would be a good thing to add references (especially when handling larger pieces of information like on the dwarf-page), but as it appears this is mostly reserved for info gained from roleplaying-books and other websites than wowwiki, I've chosen to not add them yet. I'll see what I can do.
 * If you are taking info from other WoWWiki articles, then you should use the citation that those articles have. If they do not have citation, than that article has a problem and you should not be spreading around information from it. While admittedly a lot of the information on WoWWiki comes from Warcraft roleplaying books, that is not the only thing that needs to be cited. All information on WoWWiki should have come from somewhere else, and the somewhere else should have come directly from Blizzard Entertainment. Also, pages on WoWWiki are not sources, unless the page is entirely a verbatim copy of one source (like Velinde's Journal).-- 18:37, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...however if the information is from a main article (specified on top of a section) then it's generally not needed, as the information and citations are from there. -- 19:37, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand that information requires trustworthy references in order to be treated as valid knowledge, and I'm even more known with the fact that false knowledge does not profit anyone. While I admit that I am bad at referencing (a quality of mine I need to reduce if I want to continue improving Wowwiki) I've never had the intention of spreading false and irrelevant information. As said, I'll improve my references and thus improve my contributions.


 * Still... while all your requests are appropriate and all your statements genuine,, concerning the idea and goals of a wiki, I must admit I feel a tad depressed as my "contributions" clearly create more trouble than good. I'll see what I can do (again). Cheer on me as I do my best, huiyah. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 19:47, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I never said your intentions were hostile, and I do not want you to become depressed and slink off into a state of never contributing again. In the way of cheers, I will give you: I am sorry that it messes up lines of text.-- 19:56, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I never said I'll never contribute again xD Thanks for the support, I'll later add some references to the mechagnome-page which is the other page on wowwiki I've worked most on. Could you tell me if there are any guides or the like for this on wowwiki? Also, I'm a bit unsure how to edit pages such as this one. (Edit this page only gives me the first line to work on, and I've noticed this page miss a few items.) Finally, in return for your sparta, here's a video of a human bard fighting Tyrannus - The Remarkable Journey of Higgins Von Higgings! WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 21:42, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Offhand, there a basic functionality guide and a sort of citation guide. What are you looking for? To add things to category pages, you have to add  the the bottom of the page you want to add, not edit the category itself.-- 01:49, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please don't change words or wording in cited material. TherasTaneel (talk) 22:18, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is desired
Hey, we're pretty much settled on leaving Wikia, but I wanted to see if you had any input. Thanks. -- 00:23, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Howling Fjord art
Your recent uploads are mostly duplicates of files that have already been uploaded to the wiki.

For instance, File:OfficialArtworkImageHowlingFjord18.jpg existed as File:Nifflevarconc.jpg, and File:OfficialArtworkOfSomeVrykulBuilding.jpg existed as File:Valgarde cave tower.jpg. There are others.

Please be more careful in the future, as duplicate file are messy. If you wanted to rename a file using different naming conventions, then an admin can do that. If you wanted to alter the quality of a file, please upload it under the same name. Alternatively, be sure to completely replace an image with a new one (though, I am not sure why...), so two of the same file are not floating around. Thank you.-- 00:50, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't knew the images were already uploaded. As the images I found weren't present on the pages I considered relevant to them, I assumed they weren't uploaded yet. What is a poor soul like me to do? At least some of the ones I uploaded appeared to be better quality than the previous versions. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 17:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

RE; Last Weeks Mammoth
You didn't need an admin for that. Everyone is capable of using the Move page option. And the redirect is created automatically when the page is moved. Also, the articles name was correct, Blizzard decided to update the spelling at a later time... probably with the release of Cata, where many items' spellings were fixed. 03:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, thanks for pointing it out. Thought moving pages was a type of edit only doable by admins, sorry for making a ruckus for nothing. Thanks for moving the article anyway! :-) WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 13:16, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

User Box
Hey,WrathOfDeathFrost.Could you tell me how to make userboxes? Itsuki624 (talk contribs) 05:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)Itsuki624

YEAH.I nedd help.What would the pixel sizes be for the pictures if there were 6 of them??Cause they aren't showing up on the userbox.And do you know a userbox for having all achievements? Itsuki624 (talk contribs Lord of the Elves) 09:26, 28 January 2011 (UTC)Itsuki624

Yeah,I was trying to add 6 pics to 1 Userbox.No big deal,right?I'v seen a Userbox,and use it,with 12 of them.And another with just 10.And I guess you'll see what I meant about the "All Achievements" Thing when you next check out my page. Itsuki624 (talk contribs Lord of the Elves) 21:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)Itsuki624

EZ-Thrown away
Please go back to the game client and look both at the recipe (in the engineering recipe list) and the resultant item. I believe you will find that the recipe has "EZ", and the item has "Ez". Thus the discrepancy. If I am wrong, it will have been a relatively recent change. -Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it seems you are correct. The "creation" uses "EZ" while the item uses "Ez". Somewhat annoying, I guess it must've been overlooked by Blizzard.WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 19:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you be correcting/reverting the pages, then? I'm told you can copy over a redirect page without admin powers these days, but have not tried it myself. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:36, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure, but I'll see what I can do. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 20:58, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Fanart
As good as the art is, if it's not official work, please do not place it into articles. 02:57, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

File size
I've been having to reduce several of the images you've upload due to their massive sizes. Please try to keep the file under 500KB. Although I won't nitpick over a few kb over that, having files at 3MB is far too much. For more info see WP:IMP... and by the way, great job on getting these images and being very detailed on the sources of the image/cards. 06:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Arakkoa factions
Based on your recent edits to arakkoa, I would like to discuss the criteria for what makes an arakkoa faction, and if and when their faction overlaps with their town. I am personally a fan of the arakkoa storyline. I am also not a fan of saying each town's mob name prefix is a separate organization, but that may or may not be besides the point. They may be separate. What do you think?-- 22:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I'll admit, I had to ponder this for a while before answering.


 * Personally I think a group of arakkoa can be treated as a faction if they compose a tribe with a name not shared with other groups. This is the case with all the tribes in Blade's Edge Mountains, although they are much smaller than the Skettis. It is, as you suggest, fully possible that they are of the same tribe (that is, a Blade's Edge Mountains-tribe), and that their names (such as "Vekh'nir Stormcaller") simply refers to where they are located. The town names and tribe names are undoubtedly connected, which brings us to the question: exactly what does a name refer to? The location (town) or the tribe?


 * If a name is bound to a location, we can then assume that it itself gives name to the tribe that's living on it. If a name is bound to a tribe, we can assume that it then gives name to the location the tribe lives on. The former suggests that a tribe is not bound to a named location, and may name other places with different names while the members are still keeping their tribe name. The latter could mean a tribe will change into another tribe as soon as it moves from one place to another. In other words; the former implies factions (tribes) while the latter may deny it.


 * A further question would be "how persistant is a name?". Both tribe &rarr; home and home &rarr; tribe will result in a tribe name connected to a location. When trying it figure out whether arakkoa tribes can be classified as factions, (I'd say) it is important to determine how a name is bound to either a tribe or a location. Do arakkoa retain their names when moving, and "how" do they retain it based on the name's original purpose? If a tribe changes name when moving, it means the name is not persistent. If a tribe keeps its name even after moving, it means the name is persistent.


 * It is possible to treat these two questions as variables, and couple them together in a 2x2 pattern:


 * 1. The name originally refers to a location = The tribe is named after where it lives.
 * Non-persistent: A new location is not named as the old, which causes the tribe to become a new tribe. (solution 1)
 * Persistent: A new location is named the same as the old, which technically causes the tribe to retain its name. (solution 2)


 * 2. The name originally refers to a tribe = The location is named after the tribe that lives there.
 * Non-persistent: The tribe retains its old name when it moves to a new location. The new location do not have to be named the same as the old. (solution 3)
 * Persistent: The tribe retains its old name when it moves to a new location. The new locations are named the same as the old. (solution 4)


 * In Terokkar Forest, there are a few situations which shares similarities with some of these results. As in Blade's Edge, town and tribes are obviously connected; Shalassi arokka lives in Veil Shalas, Skithian in Veil Skith, Shienor in Veil Shienor, Lithic in Veil Lithic, and Sethekk in Sethekk Halls.


 * However, Veil Reskk is inhabited by Shienor arakkoa. This matches solution 3, implying that "Shienor" is a tribe, that "Veil Shienor" is named after it, and that "Veil Reskk" is founded by Shienor-arakkoa.


 * Skettis is a bit tricky as it is used both as a name for a location and as a "title" on the arakkoa living there. Moreover, what makes it interesting is that it is composed of veils with other names than "Skettis". If it is a tribe name, it matches solution 3 just as Shienor. If it is a location name, it matches none. As such, I guess that arakkoa truly can be treated as factions because their names refer to their tribes.


 * Of course, it is fully possible that there are further solutions which I've forgotten to add.


 * The arakkoa ghosts in Veil Rhaze are called "Screeching Spirit" and "Deathtalon Spirit" which seems to refer to their undeath instead of their tribe or/and home.


 * The Arakkoa Feathers make it all a bit more complicated. They indicate that all arakkoa in Terokkar Forest are part of Skettis. This contributes to the idea that Skettis is a tribe name, but at the same time it also implies that some tribe names can overrule other tribe names. Some of the veils matches solution 1, but in order to comply with the Shienor and Skettis I'd say that arakkoa follow solution 3 while at the same time be part of an "arakkoa network" with Skettis as the government. In other words, tribes may be sub-tibes of a larger tribe, which in this case is the Skettis.


 * There is, however, no signs of the Blade's Edge tribes to be part of an "over-tribe". As such, I'd consider them independent tribes / factions. They may, however, all originate from the Apexis.


 * In any case, I feel that you're the one who should handle the arakkoa page, given how you're a larger fan of it than me. Still, a suggestion I have is to sort the clans / tribes / factions / primarily under zones, such as "Blade's Edge Mountains" and "Terokkar Forest".
 * WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I do not think that I could put that in so many words. I do not disagree with your statements, and you seem to have a grasp of the situation and problem. I suppose that any town not explicitly confirmed to have a connection with any others could be listed as a separate faction, but there are some major multi-veil factions. So, they are connected, but your edits are fine. I was hoping for more clarity where it does not exist.-- 20:19, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Seemingly all Terokkar Forest settlements are affiliated with Skettis (lead by Terokk), which is a city made up of multiple veils, as you mentioned. I also do not know which came first: the city or the faction. I assume it was the city, but I am not sure.
 * The Sethekk, which existed in Skettis (and were heretics at some point, I am not sure exactly when or for how long), but moved, are currently in Auchindoun. They have connections to the Grishna/Grishnath (in their affiliation with of Anzu), the Dark Conclave (in their worship of the "master"), and the "Time-Lost" (which seems to be a state of being that I assume means that they are from the past, notably used by Terokk's priesthood). They hold Terokk in high regard, but they have denounced the deity associated with him, so this confuses me a bit.
 * Any settlement that mentions/has ravens in their culture seem to be united. They are connected to, but possibly independent of the Sethekk.
 * The Apexis have little lore, but Sai'kkal the Elder (a ghost in their ruins), hints that they had something to do with the ravens. or he might have moved there. Grishnath is nearby.
 * The Skettis Exiles/Outcasts have no true home, but they are a faction.


 * This subject is, without doubt, extremely confusing. I wish the lore published by Blizzard would be less ambiguous; as it stands now it is nearly impossible to make heads and tails out of it. Still, I find it unlikely that Blizzard will care to improve any of it, given how WOTLK and Cata are in the stores. Their removal of the bestiaries is a perfect example of that. This is a shame, I always thought the Burning Crusade had a "alien" (literally) feel to it that cannot be challenged by the other game versions (though they probably had their types of feels as well). Especially when it came to the arakkoa and sporelings.


 * Still, as some sort of "replacement", perhaps it is possible to implement some of what we've discussed here in a speculation-section on the arakkoa article?


 * Other than that, there was something I came to wonder. You're mentioning how ravens seem to connect settlements, which made me think of two things. The first is that the Grishna appears to be heavily "influenced" by ravens, living in Raven's Wood and commanding Grishna Ravens. The other is that I don't remember seeing any ravens in Sethekk Halls. After a search on on the raven-model on Wowhead, it seems the only ravens in Terokkar Forest are the "Brood of Anzu" ones during the Anzu encounter and the undead ones at Veil Rhaze. The other birds in Sethekk Halls are eagles, falcons and hawks. Additionally, the quest Quest:The Book of the Raven seems to imply that Terokkar-arakkoa defy ravens. Is this a coincidence? Perhaps it is also possible to classify arakkoa after what bird types they are associated with? WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 21:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Anzu, a differently modeled raven, and presumably whoever made the area able to summon him, was in Sethekk Halls. Other bird-types fight against him. There was apparently a bird-pantheon that Anzu disposed of, detailed in the druid epic flight form quest chain. I do not know who worshiped them. I think that what the mainstream arakkoa religion was changed multiple times, some possibly off-screen during the time-frame of Outland questing.-- 02:07, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah ok. Seems there's not enough info to sort arakkoa after what birds they worship either then, which is a shame. I might be adding a small speculation-section to the arakkoa article later, given I manage to collect and organize enough info about their lor-issues. Until then, I think I'll be uploading more images, which I personally consider myself to have become pretty good at. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 14:52, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Avoiding copyright issues
As it has come up recently, you may want to paraphrase information that you are getting from sources, per the Copyright policy. Also, if you are quoting Brann Bronzebeard's narration, you may want to rephrase it so that it is no longer in the first person. Thank you.-- 00:20, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * While all of it being written in first person, I feel it's better to keep it that way than changing cited material. Moreover, I have to admit I'm a little surprised you recommend me to do so - I though to not change source information was one of the policies (at least practiced as if it was) on Wowpedia. The copyright policy is a bit more tricky. While I understand Blizzard probably wouldn't want us to publish all of their work "for free", I believed Wowpedia already contained quite an amount of this work. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 00:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keeping facts accurate and copying passages wholesale are not quite the same thing. See also Wowpedia:Lore_policy. While it is against policy to write in the first person, it is technically not against policy to quote Brann talking in the first person, though it has been reworded in the past. Hm... I have no real problem with your edits, I was only trying to help protect things.-- 00:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Right, I guess I'll have to spend some time to read the different policies to properly get an idea of how situations like this should be treated. The last thing I need is Blizzard suing Wowpedia for copyright infringement. I'll see if I can improve the text on the Feralas article as well, though I believe most further edits would ruin the source material. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for looking into it. I am not completely sure how situations like this should be treated, and I sort of doubt that Blizzard would sue Wowpedia for copyright infringement, but someone has to enforce these things. Probably. It does not currently look like the descriptions on other zone pages, but it is not wrong, and I do not have a problem with it, so it can stay for now. Thanks again for looking at the policies. They could be changed with the proper steps if need be.-- 01:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought it was just me being petty about style, but some of the other admins agree with me. The Feralas "History" section needs to be rewritten. It is directly taken from a source that describes it in a first-person perspective. That is not very encyclopedic. The policy does not exist, but it is common sense that has been grandfathered in. See Wikipedia's tone page. Yeah. Common sense. Again, I am sorry, and you are a good editor, but it needs to be fixed.-- 01:30, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The trait of "encyclopedic" can seemingly be discussed; personally I consider an encyclopedia a list of information which is to be as accurate as the source as possible. Aesthetics are important, but only when it comes to making the page easy to read - when it is used as a reason to actually change source material, something is (in my opinion) seriously wrong with the prioritizing. Avoiding copyright infringement is another thing. I've changed much of the text into what I believe the admins would prefer (or at least something similar to it). Have a look at it, and tell me what you think. WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 11:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, if an article can not be boiled down into a bullet-pointed list of cited facts, then it is wrong. However, articles should not be bullet-pointed lists or large swaths of direct quotes. Facts must be distilled from the narrative. Are you documenting Brann's journey, or what he learned about the zone on that journey? I think the Feralas article is still flawed in wording.-- 16:51, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Now then? Feralas - WrathOfDeathfrost (talk) 17:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That is much better. However, if you want to challenge this view, feel free to do so on the forums.-- 18:10, 19 June 2011 (UTC)