Talk:Night elf

July 2006 - May 2008



Confusion
Wait, so upon seeing the Warsong Clan cutting down trees, the Night Elves immediately start killing them, but they put up with it when the humans and other allies do it? Meanwhile the Dwarves arrive in the Barrens and start digging up the Earth, the tauren complain, the dwarves don't listen, they battle, and then the dwarves kill every tauren in the neighboring village? Come on, I'm a Horde all the way (I bleed red) but even to me that seems like its making the Alliance seem pretty callous. Lckyluke372 (talk) 18:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, for starters, the Night elves weren't part of the Alliance when they first encountered the Warsong.
 * Second, they allowed Thrall's orcs to do so during the Battle of Mount Hyjal.
 * Third, Cenarius was commanding the night elves who attacked the Warsong, and it was his job to defend the forest.
 * Fourth, the Warsong weren't just cutting down trees, they were harvesting that entire stretch of forest, whereas everyone else was using only what they absolutely needed for supplies.
 * Fifth, one could argue that later attempts at wood extraction were made via Wisp.
 * Sixth, this is not a forum. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I bet you get tired of having to say "This is not a forum." Lckyluke372 (talk) 05:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking of having a custom keystroke for it. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

True, this isn't a forum, but there is quite a bit of confusion on the issue, specifically why the night elves only singled out the orcs as their target for attack. I think info about how Tyrande lead attacks on both alliance and horde bases before Medivh's intervention needs to be added to the history section.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 13:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's better. You're definetly right about Tyrande. As for why the orcs were "singled out" the answer is simple- at the time they were the only ones doing it. If the humans or the dwarves had randomly showed up instead, Cenarius would still have declared war. As for continuing attitudes, it's one of those vaguely defined partial reasons for explaining why the Night elves are in the Alliance. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, the things Blizzard will ignore for the sake of a simple two-faction system. Lckyluke372 (talk) 17:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * THere is a stong difference between "ignore" and "think isn't important to clarify." To be honest, it isn't such a major issue. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of you getting tired of saying that, I created WW:NOT mainly for that reason.-- 20:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Simple. The humans don't attack their forests. Angrybiscuit

I think that the Night Elves really don't like/care for any race other than themselves. Sure, they can become healer classes, but that does not mean they will be healing other races. They have how many healing classes? 2? And 3 damage classes, right? Priest and Druid VS Rogue, Warrior and Hunter. Anyways, I also think that they know they can't defeat the Orcs on their own and just want to live by themselves. In other words, they seem to know that the Humans and Dwarves (as Ragestorm said) were only taking what they needed. tl;dr version=Take what you need to survive from them, any more and it's war time. Less your a friend of one of their enemies, of course.--Cyfer Prodier (talk) 17:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Ragestorm, about your fifth reason, isn't that just a game mechanic in warcraft 3? Flame484

Golden eyes and how common they are
In article is said that golden eyes are "far more common" nowadays than in ancient times. I'd like to know how common they are, after all? How many of the night elves of time being have golden eyes? At least Malfurion and Illidan Stormrage have golden eyes, also Fandral Staghelm (according the western styled WoW comic), but does someone else night elf have? For example, Broll Bearmantle is, according his article, a "very powerful druid", but he has silvery eyes. --Nuti (talk) 04:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Illidan was born with Golden Eyes, yes, but Malfurion was not. His eyes only gained their golden hue after his long dedication to the druidic arts.  In World of Warcraft (not necessarily the best source), male night elves have gold eyes by default, whereas females have white/silvery eyes.  This would, I'd assume, go along with their previous gender roles (the men were the druids whereas the women were the warriors). [and yes, I do realize this is incredibly late].   &hearts;  sunsmoon   talk  & cont   04:21, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That's quite a good analysis, though. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Name of the Night Elves
I'm confused here. If the Blood elves are sin'dorei and the high elves are quel'dorei, why aren't the night elves kal'dorei? I thought as a rule of thumb Darnassian names for elves have to contain the "dorei" meaning "children" in Darnassian, with an apostrophie precceding it. sin'dorei is "Children of the Blood", quel'dorei is "Children of Noble Birth", so wouldn't it only make sense if "Children of the Stars" is kal'dorei?

D Long ownz U (talk) 00:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Kaldorei is spelled without the apostrophe because Blizzard says so, even if it's not consistent. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to fix this spelling, since it's not our place to alter names to fix perceived inconsistencies in Blizzard's naming. --Lienra (talk) 10:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The problem is, you're confusing two related but different languages here. The presence or lack of an apostrophe there is one of the distinguishing things between the Darnassian and Thalassian languages. "Kal'dorei" would probably be correct, in Thalassian. It's incorrect in Darnassian. "Quel'dorei" is probably historically correct in Darnassian, but it represents the dialect of the ruling class, i.e. the beginning of the linguistic shift that eventually evolved into the Thalassian language. --Reality Engineer (talk) 00:39, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Trust issues?
Should something be added about the fact that they don't really seem to fully trust any race other than their own?? I was just thinking this since they seem so cold and unnerving. :O--Cyfer Prodier (talk) 17:21, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "The night elves are honorable to a fault, and they are a just and sometimes compassionate people. Still, they do not trust many of the lesser races of the world, whom they see as foolish and too short-lived to recall the mistakes they made in the past." page 38 of the RPG second edition. Seems fine to me. --Dushi-du (talk) 17:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

When did night elf first appear ?
The article says the night-elves were "born during the waking of the world". However i was aware that there was ingame information that suggested night-elves evoled from ancient trolls under the influence of the Well of Eternity. Also from what i've seen in Northerend and HoS/HoL/Uludar night elves don't seem to be among the primordial races created by the titans. It seems certain that the earliest mortal races are the earthern, giants and gnomes infected by the curse of the flesh. And i've seen schematics for trolls, vyrkul and taruens in the dungeons there, but there's nothing about night elves at all.


 * That phrase is taken directly from Blizzard. And also while it's slightly outdated, it's not technically incorrect, or should i say it doens't technically contradict other known information. "Waking of the world" is a very flowery vague term and can easily mean 16,000 years ago. 17:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Night Elves' origins are in debate still because Blizz hasn't said anything for sure. Some believe they were trolls who got too close to the Well of Eternity and changed into the Night Elves. Some believe there was a nocturnal race of "Dark Elves" that became warped into the immortal night elves. So whenever they determine how, we'll have an idea as to when. The most logical explanation to me would be the Dark Trolls, who were brutish, nocturnal trolls that were reclusive from the other trolls, as well as were allies to the Night Elves much later on in history, that lived in the Hyjal area could've became mutated or evolved into the Night Elves. Considering their similarities, it would be most likely. And since Dark Elves were called short lived, and the Dark Trolls believe in cannibalism and sacrifices, that could be why they were short lived. Trolls and Night Elves have similar appearances, the men muscular and women lean and trolls have tusks where Night Elves have small fangs (A possible change with evolution). Dark Troll society has also yet to be described, so they could possibly worship the night, stars and moon. And it's obvious that Night Elves are not created by the Titans. But where were the schematics found for the trolls? Trolls were supposed to have predated the Titans, since they have records of them visiting Azeroth and called them "The Travelers." Mykael Mourningsun

I think he's reffering to the holograms in the Halls of Lightning and stone, and Ulduar. Though there -are- holograms of elves there, in addittion to tauren, trolls, humans, and dwarves. Sarm3 (talk) 19:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Kaldorei?
Night Elf is a great article, and I'm thinking it could be worth deleting Kaldorei and having it redirect here. Any objections to this, or some reason why you think that we need two articles describing the same thing? I could transfer any information that's missing from Lienra (talk) 15:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't comment in two different talk pages at the same time, it gets confusing. And they aren't talking of the same thing, please read the Kaldorei article, it talks about the night elves before they are called by that name; it says: The Kaldorei would later be known as the night elves. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 15:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies for posting on both talk pages. I wanted to reach people interested in both articles. I'll ask anyone interested to come here instead. Are the kaldorei referenced in that article considered to be a race distinct from the current kaldorei? I don't have those books, but Warcraft History says that this tribal kaldorei was just a phase of the race currently known as the kaldorei. That article uses the terms interchangeably when describing the original tribe. I know that official sources vary a little, but do those references you provided strongly oppose what's written on the site I linked to? --Lienra (talk) 18:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the Kaldorei article should be redirected. Kaldorei is an 'umbrella' for both the night elves and highborne. Other articles, take for instance the human article, also makes a distinction between Azotha and human. Unireal 21:10, 15 August 2009 (CET)
 * True, although we risk confusion here because the articles conflict with each other by not explaining that kaldorei could have a couple of different meanings, and kaldorei almost overwhelmingly uses the past tense, and doesn't really explain that term is still used to describe the current race of nelfs. I'll have a look at adding something to address this ambiguity. Thanks for your help. --Lienra (talk) 10:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If the ambiguity is straight forward, you might want to look at the for template. This would be placed at the very top of the page. If it's more complex, I'd suggest putting it in the article itself. 12:41 AM, 17 Aug 2009 (EDT)
 * I'd agree to a merger, if only because Kaldorei are night elves, and highborne are classist night elves- the nature of the Azotha, by contrast, has not been fully revealed.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Architecture
One of the last notes of this article say ''The architecture of the night elves, according to an interview with Chris Metzen, draws its influences from both Nordic and Japanese building style. This is most obviously apparent in the night elf city of Darnassus, which includes several tower buildings in the style of the Pagoda at Yakushi-ji (薬師寺).''

It's true that the new Night Elf buildings seen to be Japanese-nordic inspired, but this isn’t true for the old Kaldorei architecture, which is clearly based on classical Greek-Roman models

I can’t find any ancient ruin with buildings featuring the Japanese-Korean/Nordic style.

Do you know some reliable sources to support this evident fact?

--Miklagard (talk) 00:06, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's plausible that the Greco-Roman style was Highborne, as most of it seems to pre-date the Great Sundering and the Exile of the Highborne. The Nordic/Japanese styles would likely reflect the night elves' reverence for druidism, and to distance themselves from the Highbornes' arcanism. Deepred (talk) 01:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Who's the leader then?
You've been reverted like 5 times, so clearly there is a need for discussion. Does a novel detailing his removal override the fact that he's clearly still standing there in-game? The events of Stormrage seem to be in the future still with regards to in-game events. OTOH it's probably not worth stressing over given we're only going to be in this limbo for a about two months until the game catches up with the book. Binkyuk (talk) 00:33, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * "In the future" implies the MMO is the basis for determining when we are in lore. Whose to say the novel isn't current and that the MMO were expieriencing when we log in isn't in the past. Your right it's a limbo but were going with the latest information we know. It may also be revelant to note that the MMO itself has "time pockets" where character that are deceased are still encountered despite the narrative having moved past them very often within the game itself. 02:44, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a good point. Illidan is officially dead but also standing in Black Temple, so I guess Fandrel can officially be in prison somewhere while standing in the middle of darnassus. Binkyuk (talk) 23:30, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you guys. I personally think that this page should be protected until the argument is resolved. Also, it seems that NightElfcorrection doesn't want to post on talk pages; he posts his arguments on the edit comments when he edits the page. Though he is not actually reverting, would what he is doing be considered a three-revert rule violation?--Sheffi (talk) 11:44, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't say for certain that he has been just using the Undo button or actually editing each time, but he is edit warring with little to no discussion. If he is not willing to discuss his point of view, then there is little that can be done except to either lock the page or prevent him from editing for violating such polices. 21:34, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Protection is a bit extreme as it affects all users. Can't we just deal with the offending users? -=- [[Image:IconSmall_DrakeAzure.gif]] Drazisil [t/c] 22:52, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's currently on a temporary lock, to give time for discussion... though I think I'll go ahead and remove it and see if it gets messed with again. 22:56, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

If it helps any,
 * Rulers: High Priestess Tyrande Whisperwind female night elf priest 17/hunter 7/night elf 1),
 * Archdruid Fandral Staghelm (male night elf druid 18).
 * Lands of Mystery, pg 20.

Personally, I don't believe Fandral should be removed until the events of Stormrage occur, at which time Melfurion will be standing by Tyrande in the temple. -=- Drazisil [t/c] 23:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, as someone pointed out that Malfurion does not agro on either faction, I don't know if he would be called a leader so much as a nutural third-party who hanys out with the leader. -=- [[Image:IconSmall_DrakeAzure.gif]] Drazisil [t/c] 23:14, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Malfurion's aggro state is fairly irrelevant here.
 * Everyone is in agreement that Fandrel is standing in the middle of Darnassus (presumably) leading the night elves in-game, and everyone is in agreement that in Stormrage he is/was/will be replaced by Malfurion. The question is what do we consider "now" or "current" on wowwiki. We can just dodge the issue by putting them both with a qualifier, such as "Fandrel - Archdruid of the Night Elves (pre-cataclysm). Malfurion - Archdruid of the Night Elves (post-cataclysm)". When the game comes into alignment with the book Fandrel can be removed and all will be well. Binkyuk (talk) 16:18, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lore is experienced over time. "Now" in BC (practically speaking, All of Outland) is going to be "in the past".  Most of the lore of Wrath will be similar.  Even during play, "time presses on", things change.  If there is more than one relevant "now" going on, we do kinda have to track them all, don't we?
 * Similarly, we can't simply latch onto the next book, the next expansion, etc, and say "this is the new 'Now'". We'll only confuse everyone who gets their lore exclusively from the current version of WoW.
 * --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:09, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Notable night elves
I was looking at the notable Night elves section until i came upon two things. 1: Valstann Staghelm's location is unknown despite how he was killed in Silithus. Isn't it presumed that his location is Silithus? and 2: Lord Xavius's condition is eternal. I understand that since he was ruler of the emerald nightmare. However he's been killed off by Malfurion in Stormrage so if he's still alive then could someone fill me in as to how? Previously Flame486 16:34, 6 July 2011 (UTC)