Talk:Alliance–Horde War

Name
As the move thing said, I simply moved it to make it more inclusive, in the off chance that Deathwing eventually takes an active part against both factions. Though it still could use a better name. /shrug --TheUltimate (talk) 01:34, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, the template did say to discuss it first, before moving. I edited the template to be a little more clearer. 12:05, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, I didn't notice the template until after. Which was why I moved it back. Deepest apologizes.--TheUltimate (talk) 12:21, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries. 12:30, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Regardless of Deathwing's involvement or not, I still think "Cataclysm War" or "War of the Cataclysm" roll off the tongue more easily, in keeping with prior naming conventions. Somehow it's not enough of a total war to be the "Fourth War". Deepred (talk) 06:56, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Great Wars have, historically, been worldwide conflicts that may or may not be multisided, have involved conflict between the Alliance and Horde and other actors, and have also caused widespread destruction. I think the Fourth War is an apt title. Thio (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Curious: Would it be fine to drop (Cataclysm) from the title? It seems very unneeded as there are no other articles called Alliance-Horde War.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:15, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Background
How much detail should the background of the war go into? The war had been brewing from events as early as Vanilla WoW, and a simple "Varian declared war in the Battle for the Undercity" doesn't seem like it goes into enough detail. However, we obviously can't detail everything that led up to war, as that goes as far back as the First War. What sort of limit should be set? -- Fojar(talk) 07:58, July 6, 2010 (EST)
 * I threw together the scenario leading up to from Vanilla leading up to Cataclysm. (The vanilla BGs, how they were at peace until the Wrathgate), but the Cataclysm portion is still just a blurb. I think it's just going to stay like that until we actually know what happens.--TheUltimate (talk) 12:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Reasons why the Alliance was able to expand into Southern Barrens
Lieutenant Alverold Exploratory Fleet could have finished their scouting mission and returned at the same time as a Stormwind reinforcements and supplies fleet came to the barrens and add the forces Tiragarde Keep and with the Horde having only a little presence in the Southern Barrens it probably was not to hard to claim part of the southern Barrens. These are just ideas. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 17:17, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Is King Magni dead?
Is King Magni dead? Thats my question. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 05:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was turned into a statue, that's about as dead as someone can get. If you want to rationalize it, Blizzard probably needed to kill off an Alliance faction leader to match the death of Cairne.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 05:25, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, being turned into a statue seems rather explicitly NOT dead. There are, of course, other complications involved, but unlike Cairne there's the possibility (and a very likely one, I think) that he will eventually get better. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:52, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just like Zeratul said, he's not dead. He was petrified and consolidated into the Ironforge's Diamond Core. That means that if that fat old dwarf will actually do his homework about the titan tablets, or through some shamanistic/druidic magic, Magni might return;D 20:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Will this war also take place in Northrend and Outland?
Will there be fighting in Northrend and Outland? Or quests related to the war? Rimor Conscientia (talk) 17:13, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I know. This will only be Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. I may be wrong. Gamerd (talk) 23:56, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * They said at Blizzcon they're not making any changes to Outland or Northrend beyond things like Archeology nodes and other miscellaneous changes due to game mechanic updates. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:02, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Have three years passed in game in World of Warcraft since Wrath of the Lich King?
I was wondering have three years really passed lore wise because I thought the events of World of Warcraft Cataclysm happened like a year after WOTLK in the game world of Azeroth. Because the article says three years have passed since Alliance and Horde forces first arrive on Northrend. Just wondering. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 23:04, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's set 10 years after the Battle of Mount Hyjal and 5 years after classic WoW, which means it's set 3 years after the start of Wrath of the Lich King. WoWWiki-Suzaku (talk) 07:37, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Tandred Proudmoore
Is Tandred Proudmoore really a commander for the Alliance forces. Correct me if I am wrong, but he has not appeared in-game, and neither the fleet of Kul Tiras. I the previous statement is right, I think he shouldn't be listed a a commander for the Alliance. Overlord Divine (talk) 17:47, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Baradin's Warden have the tabard of Kul Tiras, so it's assumed that the Grand Admiral as a hand in some way in the war. Guyomeprime (talk) 22:29, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. That i didn't know of. So perhaps you are right. Anyway, thanks for making it clear.Overlord Divine (talk) 09:09, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * An earlyish beta pic shows them in Kul Tiras tabards. I'm not sure if it's still the same with the latest build. Deepred (talk) 05:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I have also reacently red on the Kul Tiras article that Tol Barad was claimed by them after the Second War, so that makes sense for the Baradin Watchers to have the Kul Tiras tabards.Overlord Divine (talk) 15:15, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Five years?
Why is it stated "Five years after the Battle for Mount Hyjal, the fragile truce between the Horde and Alliance had all but evaporated" in the article, when in the intro video of vanilla WoW it is stated "four years have passed since.."? Guyomeprime (talk) 02:11, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Galen-controlled Stromgarde?
I noticed that Galen-controlled Stromgarde is one of the combatants in this war, while I know that Galen Trollbane is now a member of the Forsaken I have heard nothing of a Horde-Alliance battle over Stromgarde. So this someone's guess work or will the Forsaken claim apart of the Stromgarde? --Sairez (talk) 03:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Someone decided it would be a good idea to put every faction even loosely associated with the Horde or Alliance in the combatants section, even when they're completely uninvolved. I'm not really sure what the logic was in that. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:16, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that Sairez actually meant why is Galen listed under the Alliance, and not the Horde, since as Undead Forsaken he should be listed as Horde Commander. 14:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Galen is listed as a Horde commander and I was talking about seeing Galen-controlled Stromgarde as one the Horde forces. --Sairez (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * But Stromgarde itself isn't even really part of either side anymore; it's been controlled by the Syndicate since Vanilla. And even if you're talking about the kingdom, Galen ceased to control it when he was killed. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:52, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Malfurion is not an Alliance commander
Malfurion is neutral in Cataclysm. Wherever Horde chars meet him he's either neutral(Darn) or friendly (darkshore and hyjal). He doesn't give orders to kill anything that has anything to do with the Horde and is a member of Cenarion Circle. The fact that he's Tyrande's husband doesn't change anything. He's not an Alliance Commander in this War therefore he shouldn't be listed. 17:48, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * As he should be. Furion was in the Emerald Nightmare when the night elves joined the Alliance. He has no real alliegance to them beyond being a night elf, and not every night elf is in the Alliance (see: Cenarion Circle). Reign (talk) 18:02, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Exactly aswell as the fact that Hammuul Runetotem is not listed as the Horde Commander either, evethough he's a Tauren, and actually one being marked with Thunderbluff tag. Yet he's more in Cenarion Circle so hopefully Thebardinblack will stop adding Malfurion to the page:P 18:12, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Camp Taurajo wasn't a massacre
Hi, I think that Ultimaton100’s edits to this page are biased and exaggerated. It went from:

“In the Southern Barrens Alliance forces have invaded the eastern lands while the Horde has mainatined control of the west. The Alliance has constructed a new military outpost to try to solidify their control of their new territory while the Horde has done the same to prevent further Alliance expansion. The central region between the two forts has become a war zone as the factions fight for control. The Alliance launched an attack on the peaceful village of Camp Taurajo, which ended in some civilian casualties. This act of perceived cruelty by the Alliance has stirred the Horde and bolstered their resolve. The Horde has begun efforts to drive the Alliance back as a result. The new Horde general made an example of General Hawthorne by assassinating him on the streets of the Battlescar. In the initial Horde counter-attack, Gann Stonespire leads an angry mob of Horde civilians to raid the dwarven digsites in Bael Modan. These raids led to the death Marley Twinbraid, son of General Twinbraid. The Horde also manages to blow up the dwarven fortress known as Bael'dun Keep. General Twinbraid finds the corpse of Weezil Slipshadow in the ruins of Bael'dun Keep and thinks it must have been the goblin workers in Frazzlecraz Motherlode who were responsible for the destruction at Bael Modan. He sends Alliance adventurers to kill every goblin miner they can find in the mine..”

to:

“	In the Southern Barrens Alliance forces have invaded the eastern lands while the Horde has mainatined control of the west. The Alliance has constructed a new military outpost to try to solidify their control of their new territory while the Horde has done the same to prevent further Alliance expansion. The central region between the two forts has become a war zone as the factions fight for control. The Alliance launched an attack on the peaceful village of Camp Taurajo, which ended in a massacre. This act of cruelty by the Alliance has bolstered Horde resolve. The Horde has begun to drive the Alliance back as a result. The new Horde general made an example of General Hawthorne, the general responsible for the Taurajo Massacre, by sending adventurers to ambush and kill him. In the initial Horde counter-attack, the Horde was able to destroy Bael Modan.”

It is an assumption, not a fact, that Hawthorne’s men did not obey his orders. Many of the Horde NPCs in Taurajo did manage to escape to Camp Una'fe. He says that he ordered it during the attack so he had to be there as the actual attack was occurring. And seeing as Hawthorne’s quest Clap’em in Irons imply that he’s a hardass who doesn’t tolerate insubordination, why would he permit it in an actual military operation? If the Alliance allowed civilians to escape, I would hardly call it a massacre. Also, I don't see why he removed the other things like General Twinbraid's lash out at the goblins. Or Gann Stonespires raids on the dwarven digsites.

I think you should undo his edits. (Sports72Xtrm (talk) 08:02, 22 March 2011 (UTC))

The Great Merge: A Broke world, breaking in war
Well I see many affiliated or related conflicts since the start of the second arc of the comic. May I have to list them and other preludes for the organization of the new article: Preludes: Initial Alliance-Horde tensions and "Could War"Immeasurably Twilight's Hammer Insurgency - Is the first prelude to this all about (New Council of Tirisfal and allies VS Twilight's Hammer clan) Battle for the Undercity and Alliance-Horde de jure in war War agaisnt the Nightmare The Conflict is imminent: Elemental Unrest The Shattering: Prelude to the Cataclysm Shattering: A world crying in apocalypse and blood...: Alliance-Horde War Elemental War
 * Alliance-Horde War in Lordaeron
 * Invasion of Gilneas

This lists what the article have to describe. Well it is immeasurably BIG... So to don't have a immense article with I propose: 1 - Put a "complementar" template for this article, relating to Elemental War and break up Alliance-Horde War in Lordaeron (as Lordaeron turn into "Lordae", probably the major place of the war, due to the number of conflicts and factions involved)) to short it. 2 - Improve "Elemental War" and create other lacking articles. (I forgott the rest... I have to go to bed, may I finish to state here later...) Gabrirt (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)