Talk:High elf/Archive1

Misleading Info
"High elves get along extremely poorly with night elves and even worse with blood elves. " -I'm too lazy to check the RPG books, though I don't doubt this is true, but the only Night Elf - High Elf relations we've witnessed were Kael and Tyrande/Maiev interacting in TFT, and as far as I remember they went [b]very[/b] well. This needs to be addressed & cleared up.

"Dath’Remar symbolically took the name Sunstrider ("He who walks the day")" -As of "War of the Ancients", Dath'Remar always had that name. So... inaccurate.

--Pure.Wasted 07:11, 30 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I've cited the night elf relations thing just for you. :-) I didn't really think about citations when I wrote that information down. I should have. Ideally if everythings cited, people can decide individually whether to accept something as canon or not based on the sources.


 * The Dath'Remar thing was from one of the RPG books. I'll remove it. It was really just a sidenote anyways, so if different sources disagree we might as well get rid of it. --Kinst 20:30, 4 November 2006 (EST)


 * Also, agrees with you, so I think it's safe to say you're right. --Kinst 21:11, 4 November 2006 (EST)


 * "was from one of the RPG books."


 * While it was mentioned in the RPG books(the RPG is not the original source of that information so does not diserve any blaim) its actually originally from from the official Blizzard website, [History of WArcraft. It is also an in-game book within [[World of Warcraft]] of Warcraft itself, The_Founding_of_Quel%27Thalas.


 * "Dath'Remar, who had taken the name Sunstrider (or "he who walks the day"), sought out places of considerable ley power upon which to build a new homeland for his people."


 * This is just a point where WoW and novels don't always agree, in the Dath'remar article I took a middle-ground on the issue, stating he chose to take on his ancestral name. No reason to get into an arguement over which is more valid the game or the books. Kint if you would like to resinsert that information and if it fits in the article go right ahead, just try to stay neutral about it.Baggins 15:07, 30 December 2006 (EST)

High Elves
Anybody see the irony involved in "High" elves subcoming to addiction? I wonder if the word high sparked Metzen's idea for Blood Elves. --Xmuskrat 13:15, 16 Dec 2005 (EST)

Oh my god... I never thought of it that way 0_0. Saimdusan

Population
Modified due to a Blizzard moderator disputing population data. See http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=5089577&P=1. Caydiem's exact wording follows for reference:

"There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".

Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.

The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?

And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.

These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.

In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal."


 * Honestly, the war3 manual states that the elves of Quel'Thalas withdrew from the allaince of thier own accord after the second war with the small exceptions of still sending some priests and sorceresses to help. How were they then betrayed by an allinace they were no longer a member of?
 * Honestly, the war3 manual states that the elves of Quel'Thalas withdrew from the allaince of thier own accord after the second war with the small exceptions of still sending some priests and sorceresses to help. How were they then betrayed by an allinace they were no longer a member of?

"I just woke up and am reciting this from memory, so I apologize.

Regardless, the sense of betrayal is there -- in the complete disregard for their kind shown by Garithos as they worked under his command. "


 * Thats lovely Cay,
 * Thats lovely Cay,


 * Now answer the OP's question please.

"What, that we're not adding new races?

Whoever said that we're not adding new races? We haven't announced any details regarding the expansion. I'm not going to refute what is sheer speculation and hearsay. "


 * Yeah, awesome bedtime story there. But since when does Lore keep you guys from adding stuff to the game?
 * Yeah, awesome bedtime story there. But since when does Lore keep you guys from adding stuff to the game?


 * Undead allied with Tauren ring a bell?
 * Night elves, the biggest bunch of xenophobes in the game wouldn't just hop over to the alliance side either. Especially not under a leader like Staghorn.


 * Just let the alliance have another elf race, and we'll take Pandaren.

"There is lore supporting everything in the game currently, Night Elves and Forsaken included, if you know where to look. :) "


 * Oh Caydiem, *coughs* I'm sorry to correct you on this, but you're wrong. Let's compare numbers here.
 * Oh Caydiem, *coughs* I'm sorry to correct you on this, but you're wrong. Let's compare numbers here.


 * According to Lands of Conflict (a book in the Official Blizzard Approved Warcraft RPG game), Stormwind has a grand population of 200,000 people, and 10% of that population are high elves. That comes to a grand total of 20,000 high elves, true high elves in the city of Stormwind alone. Moving along, this is the numbers of the high elves in the Eastern Kingdoms.


 * Azeroth


 * Blasted Lands: 2,000 (5% are high elven, living in Nethergarde)


 * Duskwood: 5,000 (5% are high elven)


 * Elwynn Forest(not counting Stormwind): 10,000 (15% are high elven)


 * Redridge Mountains: 2,000 (3% are high elven)


 * Stormwind: 200,000 (10% are high elven)


 * Westfall: 6,000 (5% high elven)


 * Lordaeron


 * The Hinterlands: 13,000 (5% high elven)


 * Kul Tiras: 10,000 (3% high elven)


 * Zul'Aman: 20,000 (5% high elven)


 * Infact, guess what the numbers suggest? There are more true high elves in the world than gnomes! Need I mention the little fact that hehe, the only trolls in the Horde come from one SMALL Tribe???


 * The numbers stack against your excuse Caydiem.

"The Warcraft RPG game has not yet been updated to properly reflect current numbers as they stand in World of Warcraft, as I understand it. ;) "


 * -- Kinst 17:15, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Oh please. Both Lands of Conflict and World of Warcraft are based in year 25 after the Dark Portal, so it is up to date.
 * -- Iluvatar

What, never heard of a retcon? I'm sorry (not meaning to be rude here), but the RPG books take the back seat to actual game lore, especially when you consider the fact that Lands of Conflict came out before WoW. We'll have to wait and see what the high elven population is at when Lands of Mystery comes out.
 * --Kakwakas 12:00, 12 Jan 2006 (EST)

Lands of Conflict takes place before World of Warcraft RPG sourcebook, and before the events of the world of warcraft MMO(according to the World of Warcraft RPG sourcebook). Many more high elves have either become Blood Elves, or become neutral since that time. The numbers in lands of conflict could also be influenced by Blood Elves who were disguised as High Elves when in Alliance lands(as mentioned in Alliance & Horde compendium). I do not see much of error here if any considering that things have changed since the time Lands of Conflict takes place and later events. Also the RPG implies most of the High Elves died when Quel'Thalas was destroyed. The numbers in lands of conflict doesn't exactly contradict that fact, it would just mean that there used to be even more High Elves, than those mentioned in the book. Also its a little hard to compare how many gnomes exist in the alliance at the time of Lands of Conflict considering that only a few articles ever mention gnomes or give numbers at all. All we know at the time of World of Warcraft very few alliance high elves exist, so that implies that their numbers have been decreasing since the time of Lands of Conflict. Baggins 20:32, 14 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I concur, the lore has clearly stated that of the surviving high elves of the destruction of Quel Thalas (which seems to count all high elves regardless of location) a good 90% have become Blood Elves, it also mentions that high elves always face the prospect of becoming Blood Elves.

Furthermore, I would make a guess, mind, that after the sacking of Silvermoon, many High Elves would feel compelled to return home, to help rebuild their city, and many high elves that fled rather then defend Quel'Thalas would have returned after Silvermoon and Eversong woods were liberated. While the numbers already settled into alliance cities presents an interesting point (if only because you don't see many of them). I guess lorewise it can be explained away with my above hypothesis, the High Elven culture centred upon Quel'Thalas, the Sunwell, I wouldnt put it beyond lore that the high elves felt an obligation to return and help rebuild and become blood elves, leaving a token percentage of high elves who were happy to remain where they were or disagreed with the Blood Elf philosophies.


 * --Nurizeko

Model Replacement in TBC
Information has surfaced that High Elves' current models will be replaced with Blood Elf models in the expansion. Like Forest Trolls, the High Elves will simply be a skin of the blood elf model, which is presumably replacing current blood elf NPCs too. The NPC skins have pale, white skin like the original elves (in contrast to that of blood elves), and oddly enough, GLOWING blue eyes. This means that every elf species in the game has glowing eyes. Interesting, no? Omacron


 * Very! Not that I don't trust you -- but do you have any source for that? I'd like to read more! --Pure.Wasted 12:36, 1 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I'd love to, but that DMCA takedown notice prevents me. :P. Seriously, it's in the TBC model viewer. Anyone with it can verify, just use the blood elf PC model, go under "options" and select "use NPC skins". Omacron


 * Ah no probs then, I'll wait for the screenshots to come out when they do. Can't be long now. :) --Pure.Wasted 13:04, 1 October 2006 (EDT)


 * HE aren't supposed to have glowing eyes... Maybe it'll get changed. Ehhh, nevermind, this is WoW.  It'll be canon from now on. --Kakwakas 14:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT)


 * No need to get all snippy. I think this makes more sense than what we had before. Night Elves have glowing eyes and they haven't really been around magic, so to speak, for thousands of years. You'd think High Elves, what with their Sunwell and everything, would. And if that explanation doesn't hold up, maybe this is actually a side-effect of the destruction of the Sunwell, hence both Blood Elves and High Elves now having glowy eyes. I mean, things do change. That's a good thing. --Pure.Wasted 15:18, 1 October 2006 (EDT)


 * That's true about NE there, but their eyes are usually silver. Hmm, high elven priests in WC3 had glowing blue eyes, and it's been shown in other instances that individuals with extensive Holy Light powers also get glowing eyes.  Maybe the reason the remaining high elves didn't side with Kaelthas has to do with their faith. Then again, arcane magic use can also have the same effect on some races. --Kakwakas 23:34, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Is the picture shown in the article one of a high elf Mage in Stormwind? AzraelOpacus 00:21, 25 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Yes, that's Elsharin. Meant to label it when I uploaded it.--Aeleas 00:22, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

High Elves as future race
Who thinks that it would be awesome if a few expansion packs later (or later in Warcraft lore), the scattered high elves will gather together, find an alternate source of magic, erect a new capital, and cement their place in the alliance? I think that the night elves should respect the high elves now, seeing as the only High Elves that remain are the ones who would never resort to demonic magic, and if they had been alive 10 000 years ago, would not have joined the highborne if not for the choice of their ancestors. I think focusing more on the high elves would be good; they are a very interesting race now as they must struggle to keep their heritage alive and are disgusted by the blood elves, etc. I think the largest high elf concentration is on Theramore, so perhaps the high elves could make a large settlement somewhere in Kalimdor.


 * High elves are already playable, as Blood Elves. I don't think there's a sufficient difference between the two for Blizz to make them a playable race- also, there's not enough High Elves to support a playable race.


 * Um, it sort of annoys me that people consider Blood Elves as High Elves still; High Elves isn't the name of their species, like Human for example, it is the name of the faction of Elves that practice arcane magic and stuff but not demonic. So High Elves and Blood Elves are both basically just this species of Elf now.  I agree they are the same species, but High Elf is not really the name of the species.  And on another note, just because they are the same model doesn't mean we shouldn't get to play as either, I mean it's not like there would be too many races (and High Elves are still an important part of the alliance, so I think they should play a part in the story).  -Blackmorsel


 * How was high elf not the name of the species? Have they been 'thing' elf all this time, but Blizz forgot to tell us? If night elves are a distinct species, then so are high elves. Personally I think blood elves are probably best described as a sub-species of high elf. -- Kirkburn  (talk) 19:22, 19 October 2006 (EDT)


 * You are right, high elves was the name of their species, it's just that I think now high elf is basically the name of a faction, because the majority are called blood elves, so it would make more sense if instead of saying "true high elves" they should just be called high elves, and the blood elves shouldn't be considered high elves at all (even though I know the two are at this point still the same species). --Blackmorsel


 * I know what you're getting at :) It's wonderfully unclear, isn't it. English doesn't have the right words to explain it, really :P (PS. Sign your comments please!) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 13:19, 20 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Now that that's cleared up, I still think the high elves should be a race eventually, once they've had some time to regroup and reproduce a bit... and by that time maybe the Blood Elves will have mutated from the demonic magic so that the two will be separate races. I think their leader could be Vereesa (well unless she's become blood-ified).  Their starting location could be Theramore, considering that's probably their highest concentration.  It's just that they were such an important part of the alliance, and still could be, that it seems weird for them not to be playable.  I can understand the argument of high elves and blood elves being too similar to have both, but the argument that there are too few high elves, well just look at the Trolls... they are all from one darn tribe for crying out loud. -- Blackmorsel


 * High Elves as a playable race would be great... but I doubt Blizzard's going to do it. Metzen seems to really want to replace High Elves with Blood Elves. The remaining High Elves will probably just have Half-Elf descendents who will have Quarter-Elf descendents... and then they would have too little Elven blood for it to make any difference. *cries* I also don't think the Blood Elves will mutate at all, seeing as that they're a playable race now.


 * I think the question isn't are High Elves the nextAlliance race, but what else could it be? Wildhammers? A new human kingdom? Half Elves? Likewise, this is similar to the horde version, with the only real option being ogres. I am fully in support with the High Elves becoming a playable race, and I agree with Blackmorsel that if those damn trolls are part of the horde, why not high elves part of the alliance? I mean, the trolls were almost wiped out by murlocs! If such a weak faction can become playable, so can High Elves. You've got to admit, the draeni were a long shot, just pulling a race out of the air (or space =P), and with such a tempting oppourtunity with ogres for the horde, th only equivalent on par with that is the High Elves. I just hope that Blizzard implement the Quel'Dorei. Oh, and by the way, what if Half Elves had children with other Half-Elves? Or Quater Elves? Or even Half Ogres? Phalanxia 16:13, 27 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Half-elfs decendents are still "half-elfs according to the lore. Apparenly elven blood remains dominate. Similar to with "half-human half-ogres".Baggins 01:38, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Immagine Fel Orcs...Fel Orcs are not considered orcs so Blood Elves are not considered High Elves, and i agree would be sweet with a playable helf faction.


 * Okay, to save this discussion from total moronity...1) The species is now 90+% Blood Elves, as such, Blood Elf has become the legitimate label for the species, suck it in, carebears. 2) High Elves are a remnant, that is, a small (culturally) faction existing on the outskirts of Elven society, just as the Dafias Brotherhood is a faction of Humanity, but they are still humans and are pushed to the outskirts of human culture. 3) While the lore does present the interesting prospect of the high elves looking for somewhere to build their own city, in actuality, the high elves are finished as a power, their numbers are small and spread thin, with each passing day more of them returning to Quel'Thalas and becoming Blood Elves, Blood elves are not demonically corrupted, and I don't know how to keep telling you folk otherwise. The fact they are a playable race alone is evident enough they are not demonic and will never become demonic. Not to mention, even if WoW lasted for 10 years, that is no-where near enough time for such an utterly devastated and dispersed group of survivors living without a place of their own to replenish their numbers and magically create a whole new nation.


 * The high elves are outcasts, shunned by the Horde, ignored and barely tolerated by the Alliance, they have no lands, no center of culture apart from their old kingdom (which requires them to change their loyalties), they also seem too comfy or lazy as it is, the Blood Elves are a dynamic and proactive people seeking solutions to their problems, so far from what I gather, the high elves just have dreams and little action, they will probably fade as they appear to be, into obscurity as a small interesting footnote in population make-up of Alliance towns and cities, just so that human lore can state that their cities have Elven districts or boast half elven populations.


 * Ultimately the only thing keeping them high elven and separate from Quel'Thalas is their own will, The high Elven who felt like doing something about their problems are the ones that became Blood Elves, that chose to aid returning Quel'Thalas to its former glory. In closing, the High Elves loyalties are lose, the Alliance doesn't appear to feel overly needy of their services, the High Elves have assimilated into their human host's societies, and by all appearances shall remain so.


 * My 2 cents. :) --Nurizeko


 * 1) The species name is still "high elf."
 * 2) The views of almost everybody above have changed since that discussion, due to the release of more information since November.
 * 3) I'm not certain that the high elves are "barely" tolerated, as you suggest; certainly in magical circles they are just as welcome as humans or gnomes.
 * 4) Discussion should not be happening anyway, as nearly everyone at Blizzard has stated many times that the high elf population is far to low to support a player population. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:51, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

I think adding the High Elves to the alliance is a great idea and still think its a possible expansion race. As mentioned about the "population problem" isnt a problem when you take into account there are more high elves then there are gnomes and darkspear trolls and Valleria woould make an excellent leader for them. In my opinion blizzard should have never introduced playable Blood Elves as the ones we played in WC TFT were the blood elves loyal to kael'thas in outland. Quel'thalas should have been retaken by the High Elves and that should have been the only two factions of the race. Secondly if anyone has truely paid attention to the NPCS in Silvermoon City you would notice that the over all population of Blood Elves are unhappy with both their current leadership, and alliance. Examples? Well lets start at the gates shall we. Where there is always a citizen in custody and fear of the arcane guardians, then there are the elves in the bazaar trying to talk sense into the other blood elves. and lets not forget the touring party of horde who seems to get angry looks from the elves as they walk threw the city. And here is the largest example of them all. ANVENNA the avatar of the sunwell who was quoted as staying in quel'thalas to help start the renewal. But the fact that "she" is part of the sunwell and is held secret by the high ranking blood elves who dont seem in any hury to restore the sunwell. Can you imagine the anger this knowledge could cause the citizens had it been leaked that their leaders are withholding them from truely being able to restore Quel'thalas? Im willing to bet if not a civil war to overthrow the government that alot of blood elves would defect back to High Elf culture thus bulstering the high elf society even more then it already is. Not to mention their "alliance" with the horde would probably decay. - highelvenmage


 * I've repeated this several times, but nevertheless... look at the picture to the right. Now tell me how you could change the current racial model for blood/high elves so that it would appear to be an original, exciting and entirely new race; thus attracting a large number of new customers to play World of Warcraft and a lot of old customers to buy the expansion.
 * You can't. High elves are too similar to blood elves. The lore and previous games have made it so.
 * We all have our wishlists, but though things may make sense in your mind (and in the lore!) you must remember that Blizzard is a business whose greatest priority is to make a profit. This is why high elves will never work; Blizzard will not sacrifice time and money for a race which shows little originality or sales potential and will be played only for novelty value. --

Sun-Blessed
I added the term sun-blessed to the racebox due to a refrence to them being called sun-blessed in one of the warcraft rpg books.Baggins 13:43, 21 November 2006 (EST)

you know
the "old" high elf pictures should be removed. I mean, there's lots of high elves to take pictures from in Allerian Stronghold now. Why the old pictures featuring protruding eyes?


 * Until patch 2.01, the new models won't be officially released, and thus to the greater populace of players, high elves still look like the "old" model. Varghedin 12:27 (CET), 22 Nov 2006


 * I made the old pictures, but I don't play WoW anymore, so I can't make more. If you want more pictures of the new models, make some and add them on. ^_^ I think my pictures are really pretty, so I'll be sad to see them go, but oh well.  -Kinst 17:09, 22 November 2006 (EST)

It might be nice, however if there was a small article with the old pictures, discussing the old models and listed with the "removed" from game template.Baggins 09:23, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Oddly enough there are a couple of spots where some of the old high elve models can still be found with new high elf models in the PTR, such as at the Quel'lithian lodge. I'm sure that'll be fixed before the patch release though.Baggins 02:55, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Not Paladins
In the presumed classes section, I removed Paladin. High Elves simply cannot become paladins. --Blackmorsel


 * Why do we list classes and mounts for a race that is not, and not ever likely to be, in the game? I don't see what the point of that "information" is.--Aeleas 15:50, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * Well, for one thing, it's much easier than having two Racebox templates. For another, it has nothing to do with being playable- you'll note that all Nathrezim are Dreadlords and all Pit Lords are Pit Lords.--Ragestorm 16:19, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * I think it's pretty silly too. And it could give the wrong idea to those who've never played WoW. --Kinst 16:28, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Since there are high elves that still practice "Holy Light" there are a few rare high elf paladins, according to the Warcraft RPG. Though most become priests. Does it need to be mentioned in the racebox? not really...Baggins 16:32, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * Fine. You write the template. Same info, sans classes. --Ragestorm 16:42, 24 November 2006 (EST)

I don't see a reason to have more than one templates really... I've been using the single template myself to list classes only mentioned in the rpg specified for certain characters when applicable(Ex. Garona).Baggins 16:46, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * We seem to be at cross-purposes. I'm takling about Racebox templates. How can we have one Racebox template if you want to remove speculated class info? we either be unprofessional and leave it blank, or we sound like a broken record and list "not applicable." Continue on a usertalk.--Ragestorm 16:55, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Ranger Lord
With Ranger Lord Hawkspear, is Ranger Lord his rank, like Ranger General, or is he just a lord and a ranger. If it is a rank, then he is probably the highest ranking High Elf on Azeroth. Wouldn't that make him the leader of the Silvermoon Remnant (keeping in mind that many High Elves are probably citizens of human nations)? Mannerheim


 * Hard to say, I mean he's the only one seen in WoWWiki that has a title of prestige, but I'm guessing Vereesa would hold some power in high elven society, considering her lineage. (not to mention Alleria, if she is still alive. I hope Blizzard shows us the other Windrunner sisters soon!) --Blackmorsel

Blood Elf picture removed
There was a picture with a blood elf that was called "Elven male". I replaced it with a picture of a high elf. I know that they are the same species, but the blood elves have their own page. --Blackmorsel

Blackmorsel, that is actually a high elf (Gilthares Firebough). Look at the eyes. They're blue. You don't get to be a blood elf just by wearing red clothing. I prefer this image to the other: its a smaller picture and contrasts with the female one which is standing up, and it also shows that high elves are so similar in appearance to blood elves that you have to look closely to see the difference. --Vorbis 10:07, 16th Dec 2006 (GMT)


 * Well its a fact most high elves threw away all their red and black clothing in fear of being seen as blood elves. Course there are exceptions to the rule.


 * Also if he's if he's connected to a horde quest, and not neutral to alliance that would also imply him to be blood elf. If he's neutral to alliance, then he's probably another faction. Ultimately though its usually better to use the voice check, if he has voice of a night elf, they are usually high Elf, if he has voice of a blood elf he's a blood elf. The voice and eye thing are not a 100% rule however, as not all blood elves models or voices have been altered yet. It looks like he's more likely part of the Steemwheedle Cartel if he's connected to Rachet. Especially if he's under Captain Brightsun.Baggins 12:32, 16 December 2006 (EST)


 * He was under the Blood Elf category here on wowwiki, and although his picture works well because he is sitting and it's smaller, he just doesn't look like a high elf. One of the things that the blood elves did is they adopted hairstyles that went against the norm.  Having spiky hair and a goatee fits that description to me (along with his red clothes, although they aren't what makes him look blood elven.) I'll leave it be, but it still doesn't look right on the high elf page. --Blackmorsel

We can replace it with a more standard represenation of a high elf, considering he is independent non-alliance, steemwheedle high/blood elf, rather than more common, Alliance high elves.Baggins

Nature Appreciation
Is there any further info or citation for the high elven and and dwarvern alliance due to their appreciation of nature? Originally, before the addition of Night Elves it was implied High Elves were also druids, yet since much of that has been retconned, we're left with an odd sense of nature appreciation for them to share. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 13:48, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * The druid and nature appreciation thing has been refrenced in later sources including the RPG. There is a blood elf druid in Burning Crusade even. The designers have said they were inspired to put the floating gardens, and strange but beatuiful flora in blood elven lands because of former high elven appreciation of nature.Baggins 13:52, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Ah good to know, though that brings up why they went the nature path after leaving the Night Elves in the first place. Still, citation is needed imo, and i think that stuff needs to be added, as druidism is under represented here. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 13:57, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * I've already cited the refrences to high elven druidism practiced by elven rangers, and passed onto half-elves, in the article, and half-elf articles look under culture, and faith. Citations to other information can be found in their respective and related articles, you might check out retcon under the article for high elven druidism for even more refrences and citations. I won't refrence the floating garden thing until I find the original article on it. It might have been the www.worldofwarcraft.com article discussing the design for Silvermoon city. So I recommend looking there, if not there its somewhere on the website.Baggins 14:01, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Ah my bad, missed that bit there, sorry. As for citation, i was refering to the section "New World Patterns and the Thallassian Kingdom". Where is this information from? I'm suspecting WC1 or WC2, neither of which i'm familiar enough with. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 14:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Well, first I'd recommend checking out the Warcraft II manual, which is located on this site somewhere, there is probably some information there. Try also checking under the article Source. As for further refrences to wild hammer dwarves and high elves appreciation of nature, it is discussed heavily in Lands of Conflict, and some in Alliance & Horde Compendium, and Alliance Player's Guide as well. I can try to get some citation from those sources when I have the time.Baggins 14:11, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Mount
As theron pointed out (and removed), the mount is speculation afaik. Ragestorm readded hawkstrider as fact, and dragonhawk as presumed. The latter should certainly be removed, the former needs some citation as it's speculation as far as i (and the reader) knows. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 10:21, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * I intended to add both as presumed, my error there. And, may I ask, is there a reason that they might not have had hawkstriders as mount? I find it hard to believe that they suddenly domesticated a new racial mount out of nowhere. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:17, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Because they're not blood elves? I'm not arguing it either way, it's merely presumption, speculation, simple enough. Last time i checked, speculation stays out of the infoboxes. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 16:13, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Not always true, but since there appears to be a reasonable doubt in this case... I'll placate the users. :-P-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr)

Beasts gets changed too by the magicks of the blood elves, notice the lynx has green glowing eyes like a blood elf.

the dragonhawks changed aswell... --Gurluas 14:18, 25 March 2007 (EDT)Gurluas

Age Changes
Someone has recently changed the high elf lifespans from death by age at 2,000 to around 350-400. Can this be verified? I call the hobbit.--Zexx 13:01, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * He's not been editing recently. I'll leave him a message. If there's something new in-game that contradicts (and therefore, overrules) the RPG (which is where the original figure of 2000 came from), it must be sourced.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:55, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * Its not 2000 in the RPG, more like 350-400ish.Baggins 09:39, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

On the wow website is says "all elves are now mortal and have comparable lifespans that can extend as long as several thousand years."  So does that not mean that the lifespan is more far more than listed in the article?.Bloodmagi


 * The context appears to be talking about all three kinds of elves in general, but also referring to night elves. If you take that into context, that makes high elves age up to about 400, the night elves can age up to 1200.Baggins 21:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't really make sense. Night Elves have been immortal for a really long time, and Night Elven lifespans have always been influenced by sources like the Well of Eternity or the World Tree. By right (unless the Night Elves kept records over 10,000 years), no one should know what their lifespans are. Similarly, High Elves/Blood Elves have a lifespan modifier in the form of the SunWell. Is there any reliable sources that tells us the Lifespan of High Elves with the Sun Well and High Elves without the Sun Well? --Invin Dranoel 13:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Night elf immortality was specificaly from the World Tree, not the Well of Eternity. When the tree was damaged, they lost their immortality. They may have had extended lives from the previous tree but its unclear.Baggins 08:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Its also specifically stated that the high elves lost their immortality before they settled in Quel'Thalas in a few places for example Alliance Player's guide, 129.Baggins 21:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

High Elves have to be able to live for over 2,000 years. Use Dath'remar and Anasterian Sunstrider as examples. Dath'remar fought in the War of the Ancients and 2,700 years later led the High Elves to Quel'thalas, and Anasterian was king during the Troll Wars and was killed by the Scourge in the Third War. Jormungand01 (talk) 18:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dath'Remar's age may be explainable by the fact that he was part of the Highborne caste and the arcane magic he ab/used might have had lasting side-effects, or it could simply have been a side-effect of having "been" a night elf for god knows how many years before his exile (especially given that no one knows whether or not he died long before or after the Scourge invasion, or so his article claims).  Anasterian could have prolonged his life with magic, have had a very healthy diet, or he might have just "enjoyed" some lingering "side-effects" of what Dath'Remar might have experienced.  --Super Bhaal (talk) 18:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you put it like that then there's no reason why all the other High Elves can't live that long as well. Just about all of them have some proficiency in magic. It would be fairly easy for them to enjoy a healthy diet. And all High Elves were once Highborne night elves. Jormungand01 (talk) 18:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you put it like that then there's no reason why all the other High Elves can't live that long as well. Not being alive to benefit from the original Well of Eternity might have something to do with that. I'd like to think that the Highborne carried "radiation" from the Well in their bodies even after it imploded and this affected the first couple of generations of children born to them, and over time it faded away, which might partially account for their decreased life spans.  --Super Bhaal (talk) 21:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And all High Elves were once Highborne night elves. Untrue. Many high elves were born AFTER the Highborne night elves were exiled. In fact, I don't believe that Anasterian was alive at the time, so he was a high elf upon birth, not a night elf. Correct me if I'm wrong. --Arbaril 16:31, November 11 2008

We do not know for how long the first 'high elves' lives, they might live for a millenia or so... Most today are ancestors of the original, by many generation's difference...--Gurluas (talk) 19:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Kael'thas? He is "several centuries" old and still at the peak of strength. If they only lived for 350-400 years then he would by now be quite elderly. Jormungand01 (talk) 09:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

What will happen to them?
What do people think will happen to the High elves in WoW? Will they continue to be a minor group of elves, or in later expansions will they become more of a force to be reckoned with? Or will they all revert to blood elves eventually? --Blackmorsel


 * It really depends on the fate of the Blood Elves imo. Once Kael is dead, and they will probably find some way to redeem themselves and improve their situation. This may make the High Elves join with them again, it may even make the Blood Elves rejoin the Alliance. Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping the Blood Elves find slavation, return to Alliance, and take up thier old ways and reforge their old relationships. This will all be post WoW ofc. Nothing can happen to them in WoW at all, it's too static. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 19:31, 23 February 2007 (EST)

i Highly doubt the blood elves will Ever even consider rejoining the Alliance. 20% of Humans were racist fools. such as Grand Marshal Garithos. from warcraft 3. And most Night elves Simply dispise them for ancient History. Not even giving the thought that they had nothing to do with there ancestors Actions. Just saying. the Blood elves and high elves had to put up with alota crap. --Alastarian Sunrage (talk) 16:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. However good they are at making MMOs, their lore department is much better at Strategy. Anyway, the High elves will probably still display some disdain for the Blood elves, but it all depends on the return of a magic source. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:07, 23 February 2007 (EST)


 * The two cultures have become pretty different... I can't see the high elves joining them, but I could see them possibly not hating them as much at best. --Blackmorsel


 * Agreed with Ragestorm, etc. MMOs are notoriously difficult to write cohesive storyline's for, due to their basic design. In a strategy game your can plot the entire storyline at once, without 'interference' from the need to keep building up and up. And of course, once you start playing two or more factions at once, it becomes very difficult indeed! 10:03, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * I guess this sort of brings up another question: If Blizzard ever made a Warcraft IV, what would happen to WoW? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Recently had a talk about this in the IRC chan, but i summarized it in a topic on WoW Radio just now :p -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 12:32, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * They could even do a War of the Ancients game. 14:22, 24 February 2007 (EST)


 * Agreed. The fact is that they are much better at doing lore for finite, closed campaigns. That's the medium that made people so fanatic about Warcraft lore, and that's why these loopholes are emerging. I recommend moving this conversation to a usertalk, given the fact that we've left the topic of high elves. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:24, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Blood elves certainly aren't leaving Horde anytime soon. They have already cemented their relations and place in the Horde. High elves are basically blood elves who were luckily to not suffer a magic addiction or a lesser one,their culture is extremely similar,the Farstriders acting exactly like the high elves. We should really seperate the three different groups of high/blood elves. People are always getting them mixed up.


 * High elves suffer no or a lesser magic addiction because they didn't live in Quel'thalas. Many loyal to the Alliance.


 * Azeroth Blood elves-Generally act the same as high elves except for their magic addiction. Resist their magic addiction and still the same race as High elves.

Zarnks 23:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Kael's blood elves-succumbed to their addiction,becoming a different race due to demonic magics.

High elves are as addicted to Arcane Magic as blood elves are, but they deal with it by meditating and living near moonwells instead of using Fel Magic.So let's say the Sunwell is restored in game:The high elves will be free of their addiction but the blood elves will still have their fel addiction and as the user above they are mutating much like the Eredar became Man'ari Eredar because of Fel.I believe that all high elves need to become a force to be reckoned with is union and that Blizzard can easily provide:Vereesa or Alleria Windrunner or even a new high elf out there, remenber that high elves easily outnumber gnomes and trolls.They can even become a playable race in the future because of the physical differences they will develop as blood elfs mutate (they already have fel green eyes, pale of rudder skin and are shorter)Eity21:43 , 11/5/08

You're a little behind the times. Blood elves and Velen already restored the sunwell using the light energy of Mu'ru. Azeroth Blood elves are not going to mutate. Zarnks (talk) 23:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The rebirth of the sunwell only happened very recently, and I don't think outside the instance anyone talks about it.(yet) As for transformation- Blood elves have been changing( wretched, felblood) so their future isn't certain.  Some blood elves might continue to resort to fel magic... gameplay wise blood elves still "mana tap". The sunwell throws in a TON of factors that have not yet been explored by blizzard.


 * The two races continue to act different, so they will probably continue to physically change... In a few generations, its likely BOTH races of elves will look different.--Blayaden (talk) 00:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Azeroth's blood elves have been pretty healthy actually and believe controlling their magic addiction. Most of them do not suck demon magic and stick to small creatures like mana wyrms which is a key difference between them and outland blood elves. Read the sunwell trilogy, do you really see that many differences between Azeroth blood elves and high elves? Zarnks (talk) 03:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ask a high elf and they will say yes there are differences between them and the Azeroth blood elves. Also, many people of other races see a difference between the high elves and blood elves. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:21, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The only real difference is political. The most recent scources say they are still the same race.  Zarnks (talk) 03:28, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well first off I wouldn't call that the "most recent source". It is outdated as you can see by it stating that "it seems increasingly likely that they will form an alliance of convenience with the Horde" and we all know that was done awhile ago. Secondly, in the RPG and even in that article the blood elves are described as a different "race" or "designation". Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Their differences are far more than political. They have very different idealogical outlooks on arcane magic just to name one. 04:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Art style in The Sunwell Trilogy is radically different from official warcraft artwork. It also (for the most part) lacks color.  Its portrayal of elves in general is pretty skewed, (look at sylvanas for petes sake) so it doesn't seem like a good reference for appearances.--Blayaden (talk) 16:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry Zarnks, i meant if Blizzard do use the factors that the Sunwell's restoration have brought into game(anytime soon).And of course blood elves already resort to Fel as they have replaced almost all runestones in Quel'thalas for Fel Magic crystals.In time the blood elves will be a different race, much like Draenei, old Eredar and Man'ari Eredar.The high elves have numbers all they need to be a force in the Alliance is a leader.Eity14:50 , 11/6/08

We already saw the equivelent of Manari eredar in Felblood. Blood elves seemed to have fixed their addiction with the restoration of the sunwell. If blood elves were so demonically corrupted as you say, then how come the scryers and the shattered sun are composed of blood elves not a high elf among them? If blood elves were so corrupted the Naaru would not tolerate them. Most Blood elves have taken to using holy energy. Examples include the current blood knights, the scryers who hang beings of light all day, and the now the sunwell which is now powered by holy energy of a naaru. Can't get much more undemonic then that.

Also the rpg you're using on high elf numbers is highly outdated. Blizzards word is 90% of elves in quel'Thalas were killed off and then another 90% become blood elves. Zarnks (talk) 20:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Their addiction has not been "fixed" by the sunwell. Nothing has been added or changed about the issue since the event.  Visit silvermoon, and you'll still see the same quests and magic obsessed npc's.  Nothing has changed yet.  Its too soon. Your biased opinions aren't adding anything to the topic.


 * As for the numbers, 90% of the high elves in Silvermoon were wiped out and became blood elves. Ever since the launch of BC, blizzard has been adding high elves (such as Captain Darill, First Mate Wavesinger, Ysuria, etc... And a considerable number are going to appear in Northrend as part of Dalaran, the Silver Covenant, and the Valiance Expedition.--Blayaden (talk) 23:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason nothing has changed is WoW's timeline works in wierd ways and they still want lowbies to do the same quests. Really if you think like that, blood elves still aren't Horde as Theron still sends players to convince Thrall. Their addiction was heavily implied to have been fixed by Velen and Liadrin's dialogue at Magister's terrace. Thats what the entire scene was about.

For gosh sakes just because you are a fan of high elves doesn't mean you need to obssesively hate on blood elves. Zarnks (talk) 00:17, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically there are blood elf ambassadors in all horde cities before you even start the quest chain. (Like the dranei) So they are already part of the horde, but trying to put further proof into their loyalty.


 * What gave you the inclination that I hate blood elves? I have both a blood elf paladin and hunter, and enjoy them.  Just because I am a fan of high elves does NOT mean I hate blood elves.  I have been as neutral as possible on the subject, and have stuck strictly within lore and in-game events.  If anything, your constant bickering shows YOUR bias towards them. Which is a problem that you have yet to reconcile.--Blayaden (talk) 00:42, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I got the idea you dislike blood elves because you went off the idea that all will mutate into monsters which I disagree with. If I hated high elves I would hate blood elves as well. Infact never have I said I hate high elves, I just have differing opinions and I'm sorry if I offended you. Zarnks (talk) 02:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Nearly every source I've seen has suggested that the blood elves addiction to fel magic is causing changes. The green eyes and skin changes are a start. The extremes are the aforementioned wretched(which have succumbed to their addiction) and felbloods (which engorge on unnatural fel-energy).  Its said that blood elves will continue to change; and yes if they aren't careful they'll probably end up in a similar situation as satyr or naga.  This isn't my opinion.  This is what both the game and lore say.


 * But as you mentioned before with the sunwell, things could end up differently. I didn't say it because I hate blood elves, I said it because its a FACT.


 * I'm tired of all this. This is my final post on the matter, so go wild.--Blayaden (talk) 04:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Misleading Info (Continue)
You know the Sunstrider thing you were talking about... Why ever would a night elf call himself "He who WALKS THE DAY"? They are called NIGHT elves and they "love" the moon... that sounds crazy so I agree with Pure.Wasted... he must have taken it when he formed Quel'Thalas. Well that's what I think, please say what you think of my theory.

--Oscararon 13:43, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * First off, "Sunstrider" is not direct Darnassian or Thalassian, as the name doesn't include "belore." Second, the War of the Ancients trilogy clearly displays that he was the latest memner of the sunstrider dynasty. Third, it's entirely possible for his ancestor, the first Sunstrider, to be famous for something to do with the day; for example, the bodyguard of a kaldorei ruler who remained on guard, even during the day, or a great spellcaster who dared use magic at noon. A title, perhaps, of defiance against the searing orb.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:32, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * "Second, the War of the Ancients trilogy clearly displays that he was the latest memner of the sunstrider dynasty."

Ya its a case where the ingame story differs from novels story., I tried to keep it as neutral as possible on Dath'remar's page though.Baggins 09:42, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

i think they will have to rejoin. many says that htye will become soon BL, but think in how many points of resistence they have(in wow its a lot) the two places: one in plague lands and other in hinter lands, outland... they need a new leader. oq damm im without much to say as i bought a Game card that has been used... lets see if they changed i'll be more happeir to discuss it...

High Elf Relations
The short sub-section titled "Horde" seems to contain contradictory information.

At first it says, "Aside from the tauren, the high elves have little to no historical contact with the Horde."

Then, only a few sentences later, it says, "High Elves loathe the rest of the Horde's races, having a history of bloodshed with trolls, orcs, and undead."

I think I know what is meant (maybe the High Elves were only introduced to the remaining Horde races through their alliance to the Humans, so this doesn't count as "historical contact"?), but the wording of this should be made a bit more clear. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I've had a go at making it clearer. The confusion I think thinsk stems from the fact that the trolls and undead that the high elves had have previous contact with are not the same ones that have joined the horde. 06:54, 30 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Even the orcs are arguably not the same orcs that plagued them during the war, at least psychologically. This is one argument someone (I think Lor'themar Theron) uses to justify the blood elves switching allegiances to those of the Horde. The logic of the section was sound enough, but the wording was indeed confusing. Thanks Kirkburn -- 14:07, 30 March 2007 (EDT)


 * First of all,Mr.X8, this is Chris Metzen's lore and he is allowed to do whatever the heck he wants to with it. You can't moan about anything being 'incorrect' because it's not - in Warcraft, Metzen's word is lore (pun intended). Secondly, who wants to see the same old Tolkein high elves in every damn game, with EXACTLY the same beliefs, magic, architecture and even hair styles? There is no Bible of Fantasy which must be strictly adhered to lest it invites the WRATH OF GOD. I applaud Chris for not following the same damn well-trod path as every other high fantasy game and instead taking a new direction with the blood elves. Nobody wants a carbon copy world; they want originality.
 * About the rangers: no, I can't see how you can say that Metzen 'screwed up'... how? You're moaning about how their idea of a forest archer isn't your bloody version of a forest archer. What do you want them to do? Come round to your house, kneel before you and listen to every word of your infinite high elven wisdom?
 * Just get off your high horse and smell the fresh air of Metzen's originality. If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that. Oh, and check out literature like Terry Pratchett's Discworld Novels (oh noes, evil 'high' elves!), the His Dark Materials Trilogy by Philip Pullman (they're all hunters with pets!) and CS Lewis's Narnia stories (including 6 foot tall gnomes! =O  ).  --Vorbis


 * First off, I would like to thank Mr. X8 for discussing this instead of editing. However, there are several issues here:
 * 1) Your opinion of what is correct or incorrect for high elven culture does not matter to us, and probably matters little to Metzen.
 * 2) Metzen was put in charge of the lore department for a reason; note "LORE DEPARTMENT"- there are dozens of other people involved.
 * 3) I would like to know: What, by the graces of the White Lady, makes you think that Eragon elves or Tolkien elves are any more correct than Warcraft elves? As a person who has studies tales of the original Alfar, I can tell you that the Eldar of Tolkien (and their Eragon relatives) are no closer to liosalfar than Quel'dorei are.
 * 4) you should be aware that this is not a forum for the exchange of free ideas; this is an encyclopedia.
 * -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:43, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

I would like to say two things, yes this is an encyclopedia, but then why is there a discussion tab, for people to talk. Secondly, you'll be happy to know I removed my discussion. --Mr.X8


 * The 'talk' function is for people to discuss their ideas relating to the validity of the subject matter and their speculations and views (within reason); not to cook up half-baked arguments on why Warcraft high elves are crap. By all means post on the talk page, but try not to make arguments with the sole purpose of slating Metzen. I'm afraid thats something you'll have to do elsewhere.--

Not Warlocks
High Elves would never be warlocks. It even says under the Magic Addiction they despise and loathe anyone who parctices demonic magic. And thats what warlocks practice, demonic magic Mr.X8 02:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya, most avoid it, there are a few crazies though who dabble in it or necromancy. They aren't supported by most high elves as a whole of course.Baggins 23:55, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

oh, just like that lady in Scholomance. When they practice demon magic, wouldn't they turn into Blood Elves?Mr.X8 02:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your posts. The factors of becoming blood elves, has to do with "feeding off of demonic magic", not necessarily practicing it.Baggins 13:17, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

I dont mean to be rude but, then we should put warlock on every class because theres always some weirdos that become some kind of class ususally not mentioned. Like Lost Ones being druids. No one would think any Draenei race could be druids. (Mr.X8 01:21, 25 May 2007 (UTC))


 * In terms of playable races, classes should only include playable classes. However, when it comes to classes on non-playable races, classes should be dictated by what the majority of that race could be. As it's quite obvious that High Elves had restrictions on becoming warlocks (both in Warlock lore and in High elf), I'm going to take it out of here. Pzychotix 02:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

thanx dude :) Mr.X8 02:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I should probably take the time to point out that at least for most of the current Horde and Alliance, warlocks are still generally frowned upon, and seen as the crazies of society. Even the warlock quests in-game point towards this, as do a few general quests that discuss warlocks in-game as a secretive hidden bunch. Even some of the descriptions for paladins would seem to put them diametrically at odds with what warlocks stand for, pointing to in-game parties with both paladins and warlocks as being a kind of gameplay contrivance that would probably not occur in actual lore.


 * The exceptions seem to be undead and blood elves, who seem to embrace warlocks into their midst (correct me if I'm wrong).


 * Although, warlocks aren't entirely hidden, and leaders are beginning to know of their existence, sometimes turning a blind eye at their actions.


 * In anycase first priority of listing classes on races, is to list playable races first, followed by major lore classes, and leaving off minor classes, and exceptions to the general rules.Baggins 15:57, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

High elves do have warlocks. I quote "Some high elves turned to this path after their glorious home of Quel'Thalas was destroyed in the Third War. This new breed of warlock seeks to control the powers that ravaged their homeland and use them for vengeance. ". Zarnks 23:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The World of Warcraft RPG Book says, on page 57, "Warlocks are uncommon. Some exist among the Forsaken, outcast gnomes, humans and orcs foolish enough to toy with the forces of demonic energy.  The few remaining high elves who are warlocks have long since become blood elves.".  Now, White Wolf said it themselves on their forum or something: new book takes precedence over old, and the quote you made sounds more like White Wolf was hinting at Blood Elves or something.  They always do that-- mention something, add it in a later book.  --Super Bhaal 00:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Though I think I spoke erroneously when I made the comment in my last edit summary, I nevertheless agree with Super Bhaal; any high elf Warlock is technically no longer a high elf.--


 * ...not entirely sure of how that works, though. In the first edition book it said the following about Night Elves who took levels in the Wizard  ( later known as Arcanist, which divides further into Inscriber, Mage, Necromancer, and Warlock )  or Sorcerer  ( completely removed )  classes..."Night Elves foreswore the practice of arcane magic centuries ago and even built up great resistance against it.  They can master arcane power, although doing so changes them forever.  Once a Night Elf gains a level that grants the use of arcane spellcasting, he suffers a painful transformation that strips away his native Night Elf abilities and replaces them with High Elf racial abilities.  The complete change occurs in the space of one week and cannot be reversed once it has started."

Maybe the same happens to High Elves who take levels in Warlock? They're the exact same thing as Blood Elves as far as RPG mechanics go, except uh...Blood Elves get free proficiency with scimitars and shortbows while High Elves get free proficiency with longswords and longbows, and High Elves prefer mages while Blood Elves prefer warlocks. Makes me wonder about High Elf necromancers. But as far as the previous comment by Vorbis goes, some High Elves did practice it but like humans, gnomes, and other races warlocks were considered the crazy cat/bag ladies of society. --Super Bhaal 23:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure, but I think there were one or two references to blood elves in Warcraft RPG sourcebook.


 * However, when it talked about high elf warlocks it was specifically referring to high elves which were a playable class in the book. Chronologically speaking though Warcraft RPG book is somewhere between the end of Warcraft III, and the start of TFT, and during TFT. According to the chronological order of the books given in the introductions of each additional book (or rather most of the books), it is chronologically before each additional book in the rpg. Now the World of Warcraft RPG is chronologically set just after the events of Lands of Conflict according to its introduction. Lands of Conflict was set after all the previous books before it, according to its introduction. It is unclear when all the high elf warlocks ceased to be high elves and became blood elves however, we just know it occured somwhere between Warcraft RPG, and World of Warcraft RPG.Baggins 09:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

In World of Warcraft, there are High Elven Warlocks in Ashenvale. They are members of the Cult of the Dark Strand. It is obvious that they are High Elves due to their blue eye colour. --Timolas 21:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ahh haven't gone blood elven yet, eh? Guess there are still a few left.Baggins 21:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Weird, thought I signed my name on those first two messages... Mr.X8 02:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

And thing about them in Ashenvale w/ warlocks, it's either a game contradiction or glitch. All of the generic High/Blood Elves still use the old models. Mr.X8 02:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Could just be necromancers of a sort, like in the P&P RPG where necromancers could lob shadow bolts at people. --Super Bhaal 09:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

You're both wrong. The High Elves in Ashenvale do not use the generic old models, they use the updated models with the High Elven NPC skins. In other words, Blizzard did this recently. They ARE warlocks; they have demonic pets. Necromancers do not enslave demons. Sorry, they're High Elven Warlocks. Part of a Burning Legion cult. --Timolas 20:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I can confirm that, and not to mention there are high elves studying in Scholomance... but necromancers in the game seem similar to Warlocks in many ways...--Blayaden 01:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant the Blasted Lands, sorry Mr.X8 23:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

And what we were trying to say here was as a WHOLE High Elves do not like warlock & necromancers. And the reason they have High Elf warlock is probably just game mechanics. Lore states that all the High Elf warlocks became Blood Elves long ago. Mr.X8 01:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Blood elves being a seperate race is stupid then if high elves can not practace dark magic with out mutation (There existance and belief system is fine with me from a lore standpoint). Though, feeding/absorbing demonic energies is different a bit from useing them.-- 01:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I very much doubt it's a game mechanic. What would be the point? It's clearly intentional. Lore has been retconned, changed and contradicted many, many times. I don't think it's a big deal that there are in fact a few high elf warlocks left. They're in Ashenvale, so just like the high elves of Allerian Stronghold it could very well be that they were not around in Quel'thalas during the Scourge invasion. They could very well just have missed the whole thing entirely. That's one possibility. Either way, they're there. --Timolas 16:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * As a side note, I don't have the quote with me on hand, however I read reading the other day, according to the RPG that there are blood elves joining the Burning Legion cults in Kalimdor. This was either in Lands of Myster, or Monster Guide, or the Alliance or Horde Player's Guides, but I was reading through quite a bit of content so I'm not sure which.Baggins 17:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why they wouldn't. However that still doesn't mean that there can't be a few explicit cases of high elven warlocks. --Timolas 22:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Rangers, Druids & Paladins
yeah and Wikipedia's article on them says there are no High Elf paladins, weird huh? (Mr.X8 19:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC))

Another question I have on them is, it says they can be hunters. I've heard that before, so my question is, should hunter be changed to Ranger since theyre High Elves, or Ranger be added because (I'm not sure on this one) thats a whole diferent class from hunters? So Im wondering if Ranger should be added or Ranger be in parenthesis next to hunter.


 * Wikipedia's article says:
 * "High Elves were once strong worshipers of the Holy Light, but this has died down as many have rejected it in favour of arcane magic. Although most still follow The Light, they do so loosely and are much less devout than humanity. High Elven Priests and Paladins exist. The High Elves have made significant contributions to this evolving religion, which originated from human cults."
 * Don't know which high elf article you were looking at.
 * Ranger:
 * I think ranger would probably be more appropriate for this page, but I'm unsure on the differences between a hunter and a ranger. If there aren't any outstanding differences, Hunter would probably be better, as that actually has a page associated to it, while Ranger does not. whoops apparently there is a page on Rangers. I'm going to switch it to Ranger, unless someone objects to it. Pzychotix 00:12, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, about that. I made a user name and I edited it like a day or 2 ago. Before that it said only High Elf preists exist, not paladins. Or you could put Ranger in parenthesis? Or whatever, Im just here, youre the administrator. About the username, it was just either jibberish or my friend's nickname. I cant remember. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

Could you add Druid-magi too? They were the ones that created the Runestones, or regular druids since I don't think that class exists anymore (Mr.X8 15:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC))


 * The classes listed are the main classes and what people "assume" would be classes if they ever became playable, as well as major classes seen inside of previous games. We, left druid off, since they have kind of an extreme minor role in history, and have kind of been rolled into the elven rangers, for the most part. We aren't going to list every single class in existence that individual high elves might take up, that would be kind of too much. Plus, when people think "druid" they generally automnatically assume, "shape-shifter" variety. However this doesn't seem to be the case for the high elf druidism, which seems fall more into a more traditional nature-priest variety, similar to the kind from medieval legend.Baggins 15:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Can I also add mage, wizad, and sorcerer? Mr.X8 03:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I would love to see a High Elven druid bear, cat, moonkin and flying form... they would be a popular class i think for the high elves. Ohh yehh just saw something on High elven being druids, i saw somewhere saying that high elves have started druidism remebering their ancient ancestors the highborne.. *Envyme 08:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)EnvymE

Age
In the main article it says High Elves live to be 390. But some say like 2,000. In Relfthra's article it says he lived to the Council of Tirisifal Eight hundred years after he argued with Aegwynn. So which is it? Mr.X8 23:29, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

390 could be the average age.-- 23:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Then shouldnt it be changed? Mr.X8 18:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

How does their aging work compared to human aging? For example: What's considered young, middle aged, old, etc.? Skalywag 02:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If were going off the most recent, most commonly accepted source: Life span is about 2000 and adulthood is at 110. Its been a while though so i'll double check later on when i have access to my books. This would mean that High Elves have a different aging progression and rate, not just a standard human one strecthed out 25 times. humans spen about a quarter of their lives as non-adults, elves about 5%. 02:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * See the first comment on this page. Up at the very top. Also, life span. --Sky (t | c | w) 02:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Anasterian Sunstrider was king of Quel'thalas during the Troll Wars, and he was killed by the Scourge in the Third War. So by the time of his death he would be at least 2,820 years old. Assuming his to be a typical High Elven life span if he was not killed, the average elf would live to be over 3,000.

Average Height
Where'd that come from? The average female's height ranges anywhere from 4'9" to 5'9"; male's goes anywhere from 5'1" to 6'1", according to the WoW RPG table entry for High Elves. I'd put it there myself but it's only fair I give you guys a heads-up so you can correct me if I'm wrong. --Super Bhaal 20:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Concerning Population
Currently written in the article, it says that Lands of Conflict takes place several years before the MMO. However, in its timeline it says that the year 25 after the Dark Portal is the present time. If you look at the timeline on the official webpage for World of Warcraft, it says the MMO too takes place in the year 25 after the Dark Portal. 

If you have no objections, I will remove the comment concerning when Lands of Conflict takes place. If you wish for proof, I will post a scan of the page where it says year 25 is the present time.--Iluvatar 00:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write the first part, I wrote that there are 3 High Elf refugees in Shattrath, not 2 like I read somewhere. Someone else wrote that part.Mr.X8 20:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem is that none of the timelines are consistent. Each timeline has a different "present time", and sometimes slightly different dates for events. Some of the latest sources state that WoW takes place 30 years after the Dark Portal. Most of the RPG books also state when each book takes place in relation to the one printed before it. Lands of Conflict is said to be set before the "World of Warcraft The Roleplaying Game" in chronological order of the books.


 * Basically what this leaves is the fact you can't go by what timelines say, you pretty much have to ignore them, and things are pretty much set during a ballpark figure of time.Baggins 20:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

-- Does anyone else think it's improbable that 10% of 10% (which is 1%) of the original high elf population remains and still adds up to 25,000 elfs? That means that the original elf population was 100 times that, or 2.5 million elfs. Many elfs died during the second war, and then Silvermoon was rebuilt, and somehow they still had over 2 million people less than a generation later? Seems like conflicting information to me.


 * Conflciting information implies theres two different piece of information. Nothing is ever stated about High Elf populations prior to the second war, so i don't see how anything is "conflicting". Regardless, what official source say is the way it is, simple as that. 21:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

-- That whole segment is cited from different sources. LoC claims 90% of Elves died during the third war. The european WoW encyclopedia claims 90% of the remaining elves became blood elves, and this information about there being 25,000 high elves left doesn't even have a cited source. Sotavento (talk) 14:30, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 25,000 is from Lands of Conflict.


 * Thats information about two different events. I'm saying different information about a single event. If one source said 10% survived the third war, and another says 50% survived, thats a conflict. We have one source saying 10% survived, and another telling us 10% of those remained high elves. Theres no conflict there. Nothing concrete makes "10% of 10% = 25,000" seem improbable except for your preconcieved notions about the number of high elves prior to the second war. I don't mean to sound rude, but thats not a vlaid source of information. Now if there was a source stating Elves had significantly low numbers prior to the recent wars, and gave us a quantative value (a number estimate), then we might have a conflict. But no such information exist as far as i know so the article is fine. 16:20, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * To back that up, there are TONS of blood elves in outland. Its not hard to believe that they outnumber the remaining high elves by such a large number. Plus, there were a bunch of high elves not in silvermoon when it was attacked by Arthas- Stormwind, Dalaran, and the group that would help form Theramore.  There are also remnants of the Alliance expedition in outland.  Maybe the 25,000 reflects the new numbers and not the others.  Either way, it really doesn't matter.--Blayaden (talk) 19:54, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Warcraft RPG
In the main article it says "High elves and goblins are two of the playable races in the Warcraft RPG, but not in World of Warcraft MMO." What is the Warcraft RPG? I looked it up on WoWWiki's search engine and nothing really came.Mr.X8 02:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * D&D with a Warcraft setting. The books all have awesome lore the writers wanted to put in the PC games but were unable to due to limitations and stuff.  It's almost impossible to find at stores.  Got my copies from a friend who went to join the National Guard.  You can find them on eBay or White Wolf's Drive-Thru RPG section.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Warcraft:_The_Roleplaying_Game If you find a copy, you're best just grabbing it. --Super Bhaal 23:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * But how are there playable races if its a book? Mr.X8 03:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You use the books as reference material for a tabletop game. The races have statistics, you decide what your character is-- class, race, skills, feats that emulate things from the PC games --roll some d6 to determine ability scores...add any relevant modifiers, and hope your DM knows what the hell they're doing when you play and that they don't have a sick sense of humor  ( I'd feel sorry for my players but I have to have my fun too ).  --Super Bhaal 03:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok so theres a table top game, that sounds kinda cool, so that means you can be a High and Goblin and the book is just a guide. Thanks, now I understand Mr.X8 03:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome http://www.d20srd.org/  --Super Bhaal 04:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Less number then the Darkspears trolls
The line that they don't have enough numbers to be a playable race seems to indicate that they have less numbers then the Darkspears. Zarnks 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

There's still more Quel'Thalas survivors then the gnomes, so maybe there is, maybe there isn't Mr.X8 05:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

There are more high elfs than darkspear trolls, and probably even gnomes, but most are spread out, a large part in outland, a large part in the wild, a large part in theramore, its like a big puzzle --Gurluas 18:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Theramore has ~5,000 humans to ~900 high elves- almost a 5:1 ratio. Stormwind has 140,000 humans to 20,000 elves- a 7:1 ratio. As a comparison- The Ironforge page shows 17,400 to 2,000 Gnomes (nearly 9:1) and Orgrimmar has 11,200 Orcs to 1,820 Trolls (~5:1 similar to that of theramore) Most major (and minor) cities follow this, so by the data we have on the site, I should definatly say that the High Elves outnumber both the Darkspear Trolls and Gnomes. (and the latter by quite a bit since most gnomes were leperdized)--Blayaden 00:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the articles Thunder Bluff, Ogrimmar and Undercity the high elves easily outnumber not only gnomes and darkspear trolls but they also outnumber taurens,orcs and forsaken on their main cities.User:Eity 11/11/2008 22:31

Gnomes and Darkspear Trolls are one thing, but how is it possible for there to be more High Elves in Orgrimmar than there are orcs? For one thing High Elves are all but wiped out, and the vast majority of the remainder are Alliance. Tauren and orcs on the other hand have been flourishing in recent years. And half the population of Lordaeron is now Forsaken. 16:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

And I've just checked those articles you mentioned. There is nothing about High Elves in them whatsoever. 16:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Woops sorry! i meant there are less orcs in ogrimmar than elves in Stormwind alone, if all three articles are correct high elven population on stormwind alone outnumbers the taurens from thunder bluff , the orcs from ogrimmar and the undead from the undercity User:Eity 17:30 11/12/2008

Eyes
What happened to the little clip saying they can have violet. red and yellow eyes? Now it just says blue and green. Mr.X8 05:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone vandalized the article and removed teh cited information. I've fixed it.Baggins 18:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the old one had yellow listed too, mind if I add it? Mr.X8 01:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It should be noted that High Elves can have green eyes too. The Ranger Scouting icon in Warcraft 2 depicts a close-up of a Ranger's eye, which is green. And this is long before the High Elves took up Fel magic. --Paulus 19:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Night Elves
I would like to point out that in Allerian Stronghold there is a Night Elf and when you talk to her she says nothing mean (or nice) about the High Elves, so now in the future the Night and High Elves' realtions must be getting better. Mr.X8 19:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's probably just an individual case. I'm pretty sure as long as the high elves use arcane magic they and the night elves'll be at one another's throats for a lo~ong time.   :/  It's like trying to have someone whose parents were killed by clowns join the circus.  --Super Bhaal 11:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Kael and Tyrande got along pretty well too. And despite Fiora's claims that she doesn't know Shindrell Swiftfire (if I remember correctly--the night elf Fiora sends you to meet in Astranaar), they do send you on awfully similar missions. So I'd say that relations between Night Elves and High Elves are unfriendly at worst and friendly at best. --Paulus 20:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

At least the high elves don't go over the top with magic. They've seen the mistakes of the past and know how to avoid them, such as shielding themselves to avoid drawing the Burning Legions attention and making sure they don't get addicted. So the night elves may not like what they're doing, but they have to appreciate that it isn't doing any harm. It's the blood elves who they've got to worry about. Jormungand01 (talk) 20:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In my opinion we can´t say that the Night Elves have a pure hatred for High Elves, why?Simple:

1-If the NEs did hate HEs than they would have just executed all HEs instead of banishing them, the NEs law was "any who uses magic will be punished with death", the NEs didnt kill the HEs because there were too many people to be executed on cold blood. 2-As said before: Tyrande did aid blood elves in WCIII and so did her soldiers without complaining (well... Maiev did but that is another subject), of course Tyrande isnt all of night elven society but she isnt seen as a president or a queen, but as the high priestess of Azeroth's only true deity : Elune, in other words the night elves don't respect her word as if it was the word of some politician but as if it was the word of the middle ages' popes. And anyways the NEs only joined the Alliance because the orcs were the ones who slayed Cenarius in WCIII and not the Humans.Eity15:10, 11/6/08

Capital
Could Allerian Stronghold count as a capital? seems most high elf are there, and i heard high elf are pilgrimming to that place.--Gurluas 20:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Grammer aside, they do not really have one. It could be said that is their largest remaining city.-- 20:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the grammar, wrote that pretty late :)--Gurluas 09:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Either that or theramore Mr.X8 01:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Theramore is out of the questions, its a human city.--Gurluas 04:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Mr.X8 01:20, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The High Elves are, like Gnomes, a scattered people. They technically are no longer a faction unto themselves, since the official faction is now the Blood Elves' Silvermoon. Unless a High Elf leader arises and re-unites the remaining High Elves, and establishes a poltical presense in the world, there will not be a Capital. --Invin Dranoel 13:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the people are there but the high elves need a leader. THAT is whats missing. (I mentioned the population earlier) If the high elves ever got a person to lead and represent them, they could probably become a stronger power. Since most high elves probably prefer where they are- they would probably "attach" themselves to a city like the trolls and gnomes. (here's hoping that Alleria is out there and willing to do it.)--Blayaden 00:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Its more complicated for the High Elves. Technically, the Blood Elves and High Elves are still the same. Silvermoon is still the official High Elven Capital. A High Elven Leader representing the High Elves would be somewhat considered an opposition party in exile rather than a seperate, independant entity.--Invin Dranoel 13:32, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Um... isn't that the point? The high elves for the most part are trying to distance themselves from the blood elves. Most high elves are already an opposition party by staying with the alliance. Blayaden 14:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that Allerian Stronghold could be the High elves Capital seeing as all the other capital cities are in low level (1-13) Areas. Eg; Human - Elwynn Forest - Stormwind

I Also think that is the High Elves became playable in WoW they would either share Stormwind as their capital or find their own on Kalimdor near Barrenss. Maybe an Island?*Envyme 08:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)EnvymE

Maeby a nice point in the future will be the retake of silvermoon by the highelves (yet unprobably)if they are introduced as a new race soon, they will have they own city in south south easter kingdoms and a new horde race in kalimdor, to keep the easter kindoms as an aliiance place and viceversa, in that way, high elves could share SW. i hope that happens soon.--Beloren 18:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually high elves do have a council leaders in Theramore and one in Stormwind too, IIRC. They do have representation still, see Jah'Yani Sunscorch, and are still a faction in the Alliance according to Alliance Player's Guide. They just are a bit more scattered than the other groups.Baggins 18:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

just a side note concerning allerian stronghold. shouldn't it be added to the current status part too? since it seems quite a fair number reside there? --[User: 1201]


 * Allerian Stronghold can count as it is : an stronghold of elven power in outland not a capital.I would rather see the high elves sharing their capital in Stormwind/Theramore/Dalaran/some island in Kalimdor and if MUCH lore is added somewhere in Ashenvale/isle near AshenvaleEity15:27, 11/6/08

Dalaran seems to be the closest thing to a capital for high elves currently. There are a TON of them there. Not only in the Silver Covenant, but whole lot of them are neutral. They seem to make a considerable part of the population.

The Silver Covenant is said to exist to oppose the inclusion of blood elves into Dalaran. Its quite possible that they see the city as the last sanctuary for high elves- as Silvermoon is now part of the horde, and there aren't any other major cities for high elves to call their own. The covenant probably doesn't want Dalaran to become like other cities, where high elves are mostly shunned or have little power in the government.--Blayaden (talk) 19:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Logo
does high elfs even have a logo? their ships bears a white unicorn, but i have not seen any other form of flag... --Gurluas 04:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

When the high elves became blood elves they changed most of their colors to black and red. In outland you can find a shield called the Silvermoon Crest http://thottbot.com/i27910 which has a silver phoenix and a blue background (as opposed to the red phoenix and black background.) Its found in an instance near the Allerian Stronghold, so it might be high elven. --Blayaden 19:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That is just graphics recycleing. Better off with the unicorn.-- 23:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The phoenix is definitely a symbol of blood mages and their use of darker magic.Baggins 17:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, You're probably right. It was just a thought. Its a cool shield though. XD I guess the only other logo I can think of is the white unicorn mentioned earlier. I'm pretty sure it was on their ships as early as Warcraft II. I wonder what the Silvermoon Remnant's logo would have been had it been left ingame...--Blayaden 20:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The silver phoenix can be considered high elven, im pretty sure the blood elves did not invent the phoenix logo.--Gurluas 20:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah, I doubt that. If you read the lore surrounding blood mages in Warcraft III, and elsewhere, the phoenix appears to be developed as a symbol by them. There is no written evidence that phoenix was known on azeroth before blood mages started summoning them.Baggins 18:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, there is an additional symbol on an elven boat in Warcraft II manual, a sword with a wave behind it.Baggins 18:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Im pretty sure i saw phoenixes in ancient high elven villages on quel'thalas, also i remember several high elven art from warcraft2 featuring phoenixes...as far as i know they were legendary creatures for the high elves.--Gurluas 14:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have access to much of the Warcraft II art, and I can't find any that have phoenixes you'll have to post proof on that one. We also want facts, not nebulous memories. As for in-game in World of Warcraft, its not necessarily a reliable source of information since it generically reuses alot of content, models and designs for many different races and places.Baggins 08:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This discussion needs to be revived now as the high elven base in Crystalsong forest has...Phoenixes!--Gurluas (talk) 18:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Now thats interesting... In the corner you can see a blue and gold banner with a phoenix... (a recolor of the banners in silvermoon)  I wonder if thats what the tabard is gonna look like?  I wish we had more info...--Blayaden (talk) 18:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a re-used texture... --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 09:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * They would not reuse it if it was not correct lorewise...--Gurluas (talk) 04:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The phoenix could have been used previously as a symbol of rebirth (with less emphasis on the fire connotation) from the War of the Ancients and the Troll Wars. Or the phoenix is an immortal or near-immortal creature, like high elves were/are. Or it could be a generic bird motif that was later specifically ascribed to phoenixes. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That makes a certain amount of sense. I can imagine that they might have taken the symbol of the phoenix when they left kalimdor, and started calling themselves high elves "the sun blessed." their whole civilization changed (or was reborn) when they departed for Azeroth.  It sounds plausible to me.  I personally don't mind the re-use of the phoenix.--Blayaden (talk) 19:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I was looking the Lament of the Highborne video. When Arthas impales Sylvanas the same phoenix pattern can be seen on the red background. Maybe it already existed but can't be taken as their logo. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 20:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that the Lament of the Highborne video has some serious lore mistakes: as Silvermoon was rebuilt as ordered by Kael'thas (red building and lots of his statues everywhere)and the Phoenix logo probably appeared after the Scourge attack on Silvermoon.As stated above the phoenix IS used as a symbol of rebirth.But what i also think that is strange is the wretched controlled part of the city in game, it has red building which are supposed to have appeared when the city was rebuilt... But maybe there were always have been Phoenix Logos as they may mean an rebirth of Highborne culture after the high elves pledged to build another kingdom (Quel'Thalas) with the same architecture of the old Kaldorei Empire and which would match their night elf cousins city of DarnassusEity

Just read in the article Unicorn and it says that "it was the symbol of the high elves of Quel'thalas" can this be confirmed?(i though that unicorns were used as a symbol of their navy or something)Eity 11/08/2008

The now clearly indicate that the phoenix is indeed the logo of the high elves. They wouldn't be using it again and again if it were simply a mistake. Even the new Hrothgar's Landing shows the using the phoenix. Unireal 27 June 2009 (CET)

High Elven Buildings
In the article theres a pictture that says that high elven bluildings where blue hued, and then changed to red, but this stataement meets several discrepances. First, the old silvermoon, with the raided buildings are red too, is little umprobable that they repainted the building but not fix it, however you could say that this is a desing mistake, but, the decoration in this buildings is different that the one in the fixed buildings, and, they had the blue version, why not to use it?. I don remmember when i read it, but when de queldorei arived in quelthalas, they changed they architectural style, instead of using purple and blue, dark colors, they use the opposite, reds, yellows and oranges, that matches with quelthalas itself, and the blue buildings in allerian SH, are blue because they are allied with the humanas (blue) differencing themselves of the horde, and lately, blood elves --Beloren 18:24, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I think red buildings in both Ghostlands and the western Silvermoon are red because of a lore mistake ... because wasnt Silvermoon rebuilt as ordered by Kael'thas? and so the buildings were repainted and lots of our favorite lunatic monarch were added. Also according to lore the quel'dorei didnt change their architectural style when they arrived Quel'thalas ... they did the exact opposite as they pledged to build an kingdom that would rival the one of their night elf cousins and using the same architectural style of the old Kaldorei Empire.Correct me if im wrong Eity 21:57 11/05/2008

Metzen
What does this dude have against High Elves? I mean he has their kingdom destroyed, their faction removed, and now their kingdom and language are being used by cheap knock-offs. I mean it'll take a lot of time to create new ways for them to be a playable race, or at least bring them back from being like '07, gone forever.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  18:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Point of note, '07 isn't gone (2007 perhaps, but not '07), there was a '07 (1907) around a 100 years ago, and there will be another '07 in about a 100 years (2107), ;). If someone decides to reset the calender again (which has happened a few times in history), there could possibly be a 2007 again for that new timeline. If the calendar stays the same long enough, "2007" will come around again, (as 12,007, :p), but that's really just another '07 ;)..Baggins 18:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Well then let me say gone forever like Britney Spears' chance of getting custody of her kids. >:)  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  19:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Lets exterminate the High Elves, for teh lulz 20:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe it's all because Blizzard doesn't like standard stuff, and prefers originality?? Instead of being brutish, stupid, evil and bloodthirsty, Orcs are noble, shamanistic creatures. Instead of making even more stupid and brutal Minotaurs, we have even more noble, and wise Tauren. Whereas dark-skinned elves are usually thought as the evil ones (see: Drow, Dungeons and Dragons), the Night Elves are exactly the opposite. Usually high elves are depicted as the ones that do good to the world, ally themselves with humans, help them and then leave the shores of known world to leave it for humans. Instead, Blizzard might have wanted to change that picture into something more sinister, making them Blood Elves instead, mana-thirsty people who will gladly kill any human to feed on magic (+ to avenge themselves for the Third War aftermath (Lord Garithos and his encounter in WC3). I myself prefer the elves as they are now, so as you called Blizzard (bad) names, I might do exactly the opposite and thank them for making them what they are. --Sul&#39;jin 02:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Weren't there blood elves in other fantasy genres and aren't they pretty much similar to warcraft blood elves? Orcs aren't entirely noble, they are somewhere down the middle, held together by Thrall, to paraphrase Metzen on the comics.Baggins 02:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well when I first heard about the BEs when I was ten or so I looked it up on Wikipedia and it said there was another type of BE in some other fantasy game, they were also originally BEs. The only other thing I remember is something about thorns, something like they used them to purify themselves I think by making them bleed. But that was 3 almost 4 years ago, so I can't be certain.

Humans, Dwarves, and gnomes are the same in most other fantasies.

And, the last part, I never called Blizz bad names, only that Metzen wants them all dead, and you say you want to thank Blizz for making them the way they are, you have clarified on what you think they are.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  02:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Only Legion Elves are evil,anyways,they dont wanna be too original,well there not original,like Sul'jin said about orcs and Tauren and Night Elves.Trolls are tall and skinny instead of being big fattys.Never heard of draenei,Demon isnt one spicific race,instead many.Goblins are super Genuises,justwithout common sense Etc etc etc.And High Elves has been in warcraft for so long so fans love them,but now they are very disapointed that they are now like you guys said,mana-thirsty,untrusted,demonic elves.So people like us want to do something 17:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

But,I want Gnomes to be looked upon better,thats not gonna happen,even by Blizzard itself,same thing with High Elves to be honest 18:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually Horde blood elves are "mixed", more of a grey, there are dark ones and there are those that fall more towards the evil list. But they certainly aren't as evil as those in Outland have become. There were aspects of them being evil even before they joined Garithos however, murdering any high elves that got in their way, trying to stop them from burning the forests. In rpg terms all both outland and Azeroth blood elves are said to be "usually neutral", that's the neutral alignment. As explained those of neutral alignment will do things that are considered good and evil, chaotic or lawful. They pretty much do everything. "A middle-of-the-road character, a neutral character finds it difficult to fit into any other distinction. He does what seems to be a good idea, whether it flows with law or chaos, good or evil. Often a follower, he’ll rarely go against the group.", so its seems pretty fitting.

Baggins 21:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * We need to fit an alignment page into the RPG section.
 * And I don't see the problem with Blizzard's "treatment" of gnomes; they've suffered just like everyone else ( humans and Forsaken had the Scourge and earlier the orcs, night elves had the Burning Legion, the draenei had the orcs, the orcs had Draenor collapse, Darkspear trolls had the ocean consume their islands, tauren had centaur, dwarves didn't really have anything but the War of the Three Hammers... ).  The Burning Legion and Scourge probably suffered in the beginning as well, being turned into demons and undead.  --Super Bhaal 21:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * In some accounts the dwarves were hit pretty hard during the second war.Baggins 21:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Your asking the wrong people, most Wowwiki Employees hate High Elves just as much as Metzen does.-- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I've found nearly all are very good about keeping bias out of their work. It's ironic such a ridiculous accusation comes from a user named highelfsorcerer. Tell me theres no bias there.


 * And i don't mean to flame the original poster but this entire convesation is silly as well. Metzen hate the High Elves? Hate his own creation? Many races have gotten a raw deal. It's called storyline progression. Right now thats the High Elves. The fact that he has allowed quite a few high elves to still exist as just that says a lot about the subject. 04:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Trust me Mr.X dont bother, there are legions of High Elf haters on this website, and though some employees may not be bias the only ones iv run into were. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * cough* high elf haters? where?...if i remember correctly you broke the rules and kept trying to change the races page... or was that someone else...anyway i think they do not hate high elves.--Gurluas 13:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

They are not High Elf Haters,there vandal haters(as am I!) 21:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Try not to provoke him, Airiph.
 * Personally, in most DoD-style fantasy games my choice of character tends to be either halfling or high elf. However, I don't mind that Metzen prefers his to have more of a dark elf flavor; in a genre of carbon copies, originality should be applauded.
 * In any case, Metzen certainly doesn't "hate" high elves (I find it unlikely that a sane man would have a vendetta against a fictional race); though it's probable that he grew tired of the fantasy staple (as Metzen is wont to do) and decided to give them a little zest. That some fans took it to heart just shows how much people hate change. -- 11:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

At least the race was not killed off.--Gurluas 14:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I think he's basing them off the Holocaust, I man a great race (people really) wiped out by a great dictator and huge, well trained army conquering the continent of Lordaeron (Europe in RL). Or they could also be based on regular German people who went to a more sinister side/faction. Maybe this means they'll rise back up again? Anyway, it's curious he chose the High Elves to get screwed over.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  03:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * As it was previously mentioned, high elves (elves in general) were one of the most stereotyped races in fantasy lore. They probably thought it was OK when they were introduced with other stereotype races in WCII. (dwarves, trolls, gnomes, etc.)  When they decided to make their next game they wanted to "flavor" their races more- introducing their night elf heritage and revealing their addiction to arcane magic.  The majority of high elves then became blood elves: and began to take dramatic measures to reclaim their homeland.  It should be noted that most races have been changed/explored, with the dwarves having titan heritage (and even ones that are one with nature) and orcs coming from an alien planet.


 * Personally I prefer high elves because of what they have become since the splintering. In their suffering they have become a far more admirable race- and closely tied to their alliance allies.  Most high elves before the war were very much like blood elves- if to a lesser extent.  The elves that with the alliance before the splintering for the most part are still loyal to the alliance.  The blood elven farstriders are an oddity now, and in many ways are still high elven in their actions and beliefs. --Blayaden 04:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yup that was me being banned :-D and i still stand by my first comment, if you wanna talk about high elves mr.x this is not the place to do it, I would suggest the WoW forums, Wowwiki employees tend to pour their personal opinion onto this website.HighElfSorcerer 11:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)user:highelfsorcerer


 * Highelfsorcerer:
 * a) There are no "employees" of wowwiki, only members. Administrators are not employees; they don't get paid.
 * b) Individual personal opinion is only expressed on talk pages, with articles following a strict NPOV policy. Referring to the future race ideas dispute, it was a collective community decision not to include subspecies (which you may be happy to know have been incorporated into a subspecies ideas page). That's my statement, and any further discussion of the dispute stops here.
 * You do, however raise a valid point. Forums are a more suitable place to talk about issues with little bearing on the content of the article. -- 12:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You not getting your way and "employees" being biased are two very different things Highelfsorcerer. Don't delude yourself and think you have anyone fooled. 15:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Point of note I like high elves. Do I think they will become playable? Likely not. You were not banned because people "hate high elves" you were banned for not following rules, that were decided on by the majority of wowwiki members, not a vocal minority.


 * Also, orcs blayaden orcs originating from an alien planet actually originated in the Warcraft 1 manual, ;). It wasn't something that "came later". And dwarves being children of the gods isn't actually all that new, :p... I've heard of it in several fantasy series.Baggins 16:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I heard about them coming out of the dark portal, but I don't remember what they specified was behind it...ah, never mind. I think this topic is done anyway.--Blayaden 23:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Their popularity is notable however, their article is almost larger than the blood elf article.--Gurluas 11:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, in most DoD-style fantasy games my choice of character tends to be either halfling or high elf. However, I don't mind that Metzen prefers his to have more of a dark elf flavor; in a genre of carbon copies, originality should be applauded.
 * Those types of elves are, barring pointed ears and shorter physiques than humans, nothing alike.
 * The dark elves are matriarchal, whereas the high elves don't seem to favor one sex over the other ( conjecture, albeit conjecture supported by the fact that both Sylvanas Windrunner and Kael'thas Sunstrider had high positions in the same society ).
 * Society is also a quite bit different: the drow are most always at one another's throats, vying for the favor of their deity and looking over their shoulders; the high elves, in comparison, are more often than not too busy keeping the trolls away from their throats and looking over their shoulders ( for more trolls )  to be at one another's throats.
 * What's been said for the high elves applies just as much to the blood elves, as aside from the latter's opportunistic nature, noted physical differences, and having given in to their addiction they are still very much the same. --Super Bhaal 14:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

High elf logo official or fanon
Recently someone put this picture over the "high elf warmage" picture. I was just wondering where it came from and if its official or not. To me it looks like someone merely put the "unicorn logo" on a Spellbreaker coat of arms... but then again, I haven't seen that spellbreaker picture before either...  Where did it come from? Is it official?--Blayaden 15:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

To be honest it looks fanmade,but I said this to the author and am waiting for a response. 15:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

A high elf logo would probably be blue or white, similar to the unicorn on the ship sails.--Gurluas 10:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

That's not 100% true. In some accounts, the High Elves used very autumny colors such as red, pale gold, and orange. Though WoW portays them as using only blues, greens, and silvers. I would however, go with Gurluas in her statement as if I remember correctly, the autumn version accounts came before the blue & green accounts so times may have changed. <span style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;"> Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  21:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * What accounts X8? In warcraft II and III they were mainly portrayed in blues like in WoW. Although there is some variation based on appearance based on which of the seven kingdoms they are alligned to (multiplayer purposes usually). Baggins 21:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Someone mentioned in somewhere in this talk page or the archive, and I remember seeing it. And the fact that the old HE ruins in Silvermoon are red, is that just a mechanic, or could it be maybe they do use red? <span style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;"> Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  21:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Silvermoon buildigns were portrayed with blue/gray with gold & silver trimming in Warcraft III, IIRC.Baggins 21:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The mask and gryphons look pasted 00:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

It is fake.-- 00:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, now that I've taken a good look at it- the shading isn't right in some places- (the gryphons on the sides, the mask, etc...) and the swords are the same image flipped and pasted over each other... Its nice looking, but its certainly a fan created image. If anything it looks like a [Spellbreaker] crest, like I mentioned before.


 * I was also under the impression that the high elves primarily used blue/grey and gold before the splintering (They were their main colors in Warcraft II-III like Baggins said; as well as the wrecked destroyers and architecture in the Allerian Stronghold- which is in outland)- but there is the fact that the eastern part of Silvermoon and the abandoned elven villages in the Ghostlands use the current red and gold of the blood elves. I don't quite know what to make of it... (although part of me wants to draw a comic of some blood elf painters eluding pursuit of the hostile mobs in the areas! XD) --Blayaden 02:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Firebough a "Notable" High Elf?
No offense to Gilthares Firebough, but I think he's hardly a candidate for the "notable characters" section. He's only in one frustrating escort quest (for horde players) and goes right back to his prison. Most Alliance players probably don't even know his existence. I'd personally like to put up a more "active" character like Captain Darill- the commander of the forces stationed at North Point Tower, or Fiora Longears- who sends players into contested territory to aid the night elves (and possibly helping to restore relations between the two races).

Other candidates I would nominate are Captain Auric Sunchaser,Earthcaller Franzahl,Archmage Leryda, and Ravandwyr. What do you guys think? Should it be changed with someone more "appropriate"?--Blayaden 03:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a good ideea, also keep in mind there 's a certain high elf conjurer ghost in Kirin'Var Village that is more notable then Firebough , although if he should be included is a matter of opinion I guess (Marakanis 20:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC))

I need proof
Someone on a WoW forum keeps saying Blood Elves are just green eyed High Elves who got magic greedy. I couldn;t really see any proof in this article to prove he/she wrong so dose anything from the RPG happen to prove that the BEs are their own race? <span style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;"> Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  02:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, first off you can tell the person posting to soak their head ( or you could use your imagination ).
 * Moral differences: High elves still in the Alliance try to act with the greater good in mind ( lawful good, neutral good in the RPG ); blood elves don't give a damn.  If it works, it works; if someone gets hurt, too bad.  If it helps someone, just as well  ( neutral, chaotic neutral in the RPG ).
 * Dress: high elves wear blue or turquoise ( or teal.  That's how their buildings appeared Warcraft III anyways ), while blood elves wear red.  Blood elves also wear things high elves don't, or wouldn't, wear their hair differently, and tattoo their faces and bodies.
 * Blood elves appear to be physically evolving.
 * RPG classes: despite the common misconception that high and blood elves all steep in arcane/fel energies every hour of every day, very few blood elves are actually spellcasters-- most are fighting types. This came from Monster Guide and was later contradicted by something else in the same paragraph, but whatever.   :/
 * A side note is that if a high elf takes levels in the warlock character/prestige class they automatically become a blood elf. Something about fel energies or whatever.
 * Blood elves have "full bellies" because they decided to eat the "forbidden fruit" ( fel energy ), and high elves are "fasting" because they know that fel energy is a powerful drug  ( minus the meth stare ).
 * I don't know if any of that made a bit of sense. --Super Bhaal 05:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

So, soon Blood elves would be all Fel Blood elves(Or Wrenched if they cant controll it), and High elves would soon be out of the addiction? 14:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * From what I've been able to gather, wretched are blood elves that instead of merely allieving their magic addiction they engorge themselves on fel magic. Fel elves get to feed off of a "special" felt energy that seems to mutate them further.  To make it short- wretched and fel elves are possible mutations that have happened so far... If a blood elf control's his or her addiction (take only when they need it) they probably mutate into something else over time.


 * On a side note, I'm suprised that no one has wondered what will happen to the high elves- since they have lost the magic alleviation from the sunwell they will probably start to mutate as well, maybe the ones on kalimdor might resemble the night elves more. Just a thought.--Blayaden 21:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that with the Sunwell well on the way to restoration, Kael dead and Liadrin having become a born-again follower of the Holy Light blood elves will slowly re-establish some of the old high elven values and become a new, somewhat more moderate Scryer influenced breed of blood elf. However, this doesn't mean that everything is suddenly going to be dandy with the high elves. They've still got big ideological problems to iron out (Alliance betrayal/Horde membership, fel magic addiction... genocide of a number of remaining high elves) and I'd guess that the two peoples will still be divided for some time to come. -- 23:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Beside's what Vorbis said above. The naaru would probably do something if their servents were going to mutate. Heck from what I've seen the felblood is this mutation but is only got by completly abusing magic which the player blood elves and the scryers. learn to avoid. Zarnks 05:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Your points are al good but all I asked if anyone had some RPG proof for the separation between HEs and BEs. <span style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;"> Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  22:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Necromancer as class
I think classes should only be natural race classes. Not the freak of nature like forexample Arthas, Dar'khan, and other unique evil characters. We only know of two high elven necromancers, i doubt its enough for a class.--Gurluas 20:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

There are many high elf necromancers in Scholomance. Necromancer is listed for humans and orcs. Why shouldn't high elves have it on their page? Zarnks 20:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Because its an isolated case. 80% of Necromancers are humans or orcs... 5% of high elves are necromancers...--Gurluas 20:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

So are paladins but I don't see any complaint over them. Zarnks 22:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Paladins should also be removed...Any races have a few individuals going differents paths. Classes should only be the majority, or all classes can be added to all races since someone will probably take that path. Paladins, Warlocks, Necromancers are small minorities. Unlike for an instance humans, where the cult of the damned is mainly a human driven organization.--Gurluas 16:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

What is the difrance between HE and BE
I meen is that they say high elves are on the alience and on the begining of making a blood elf they keep caling them high elves —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

If you read the article it tells you the differences. The short version is that they consider themselves separate races. Physically high elves have blue eyes and (usually)wear earth tones with an avoidance of the colors red and black. Blood elves wear black and red in memory of their fallen brethren, and have glowing green eyes and dark, ruddy, or even paler skin tones.--Blayaden 20:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Dont forget that BEs are also shorter than HEs Eity 22:00 11/05/2008


 * No they aren't. Blood Elves are simply High Elves who have indulged their magical addiction with fel energies. High Elves separate themselves from Blood Elves because of disdain for their "fel" brethren & possibly out of pride also. Other than that there is no real difference between them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by . 16:28, March 29, 2010


 * Please note when this conversation actually took place. There's no need to continue it. 20:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But that wouldn't be fun... kk, peace out! XD --Solfaris Kupo! (talk) 16:43, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Actually there are high Elf Warlocks in WoW
And I know there is another example out there somewhere. Zarnks 05:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, the Dark Stard Cultists are part of Twilight's Hammer, so they're a special case. -- Dark T Zeratul 05:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

True they would not be welcomed by their brethen. Zarnks (talk) 02:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Population
"Stormwind (pop. 200,000)WoWRPG 13LoC 52 alone has the most, with a total of 20,000 high elves, and 8,000 half elves." wasn't that confirmed as a typo? so it should be a pop. of 20.000, 2.000 High Elves and 8.000 Half Elves? -Rovdyr 23:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It was a typo, but I do not know about the other numbers.-- 23:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I remember that there was some conflicts in Stormwind's population numbers; I think that there was at least two sources that said 200,000 (with 20,000 high elves.) I could have gotten it backwards though.  Does anyone else find it strange that if the "20,000 pop" is correct that would mean that half of Stormwind's population has elven blood?(2,000+8,000=10,000*2=20,000)--Blayaden 01:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe with those numbers the half elf pop is 800 not 8,000. meaning 2.8/10ths would have elven blood. Eh whatever. Regardless didnt Luke Johnson later say the 200,000 stands? 03:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't really know, I've never even seen one of the RPG books, and I got no idea where those confirm/unconfirm would be sourced -Rovdyr 21:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Further info on high elf warlocks
4th Level — Cross-Discipline Study (Ex): The high elf mage expands his knowledge of arcane magic to all disciplines, delving into arts that some consider forbidden. Choose necromancer or warlock. The high elf mage can cast spells from the chosen class’s list as if they were mage spells of one level higher. For example, he can cast unholy frenzy as a 3rd-level mage spell. Night elves and tauren are even more leery around a high elf mage, sensing that something is not right. His circumstance penalty on Charisma-based skill checks involving these races (due to his racial animosity trait) increases to –4.

Regarding racial iconic classes.Tweak the Whacked 08:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Again as I mentioned before in another thread, that is not about high elf warlocks its about a high elf mage,and an ability that gives access to warlock or necromancer spell lists. Its a gameplay mechanic with ties to lore, and a bit more realistic than the idea that some spells are locked into one class or another. It doesn't actually make the mage turn into a warlock or the necromancer, they just get access to those spells.Baggins 08:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I've seen, and replied, to your notes regarding this. I posted it on both pages for two reasons, one to increase the odds of it being seen, and two because I believed it was realivent to both pages. And while I agree with most of your points, see the warlock races talk page for my main points. I appologize if I broke any rules by posting this twice.Tweak the Whacked 08:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

High elf rogues
Baggins added rogues to the infibox. theres any evidence of that? and what happen to HE paladins?--Beloren (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Rogues exist in every culture, so I think it's safe to assume High elves had them. 04:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

There is an example of a high elf rogue given in the RPG for explaining a rule, and yes they have paladins too, just they are more rare. Paladin races article discusses high elf paladins.Baggins (talk) 04:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * oki, thanks for clearing that, it is just i never imagened HE rouges, exept the theramoore infiltrators. Anyway, cobra, tauren rogues doesmt exist, or do they???... and unsettling tought indeed... by the way, shouldnt be paladin in the infobox too?--Beloren (talk) 05:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * They exist. They probably behave more like magnataur rogues, using ambush and traps rather than the same type of stealth used by other races. The Shadowhoof tribe is a good example of this.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 05:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Why does everyone call me Cobra... is the extra O silent lol. But anyways, just cause you can't play a tauren rogue, doesn't mean they don't exist. See Grimtotem Bandit. 06:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In lore high elf rangers typically had some rogue abilities, which is one of the reasons that Blood elves have them as an option. Just my two bits.--Blayaden (talk) 17:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

oki!! but in my own personal opinion, its hard imagine a cow in stealth mode, and the grimtotem bandits are rogues for game mechanisms is supose. Well, i think that HE rouges could exist. BTW Coobra, it is just lazyness XD.--Beloren (talk) 22:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Forthisal D'Neve is all I'm going to say. Well type <span style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;"> Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  00:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Good link X8, now im happy--Beloren (talk) 01:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Silver Covenant
Some guy asked for the importance of the Silver Covenant, The importance of the Covenant is evident, first its led by a member of the Windrunner family, one of the most prominent and notable High Elf families, Second, it is an ingame faction and it will evidently have a large ammount of High Elves, third it will probably advance the story of the High Elves.

As for the current status it is a breakdown from several sources, like the one in relations stating the High Elves are forming scouting parties to look for a new homeland.--Gurluas (talk) 20:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Some guy? You mean Ragestorm?-- 20:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Gurlas, i believe he meant how it is important to high elves specificly as a race overall. Yes the leader is a high elf, and yes i'm sure a good portion of it's members are high elves. But it's not an overall emcompasing high elf orginization, a high elf goverment if you will. It's a movement exclusive to an issue within Dalaran. Thus why Vereeesa doesn't belong in the faction leaders section. 21:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Warthok said it all. I've not seen anything to suggest that the Silver Covenant is anything but a faction that happens to include high elves and dislike blood elves. If new information is forthcoming, that'll be fine. I wouldn't call the Windrunners a prominent family from a high elf perspective, just the sisters being high up in the Ranger corps (I could be wrong about that)
 * Re the current status section, it might have been hasty of me to use the accuracy stub, but I'm pretty sure that the humans, gnomes and dwarves don't have any problems with high elves. Most of the information in High_elf could probably go there, or vice versa. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The way i see it, that faction is more than just an Aldor like faction. As for the leader thing it was mostly speculation. Also the windrunners are sort of famous, at least today. Alleria had a statue, Sylvanas was the ranger general, and the Blood Elves shows pretty much she was remembered. If anyone takes up the mantle of leadership, its one of the windrunners, im pretty sure...Also that we can exclude Sylvanas. --Gurluas (talk) 22:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The way i see it, that faction is more than just an Aldor like faction.
 * How? It seems to be exactly like the aldor faction. A subset, a group with a differing opinion, not its own race or even independant faction of draenei. The aldor are the priest of the Draenei people, not a seperate offshoot of the draenei. The silver convenant is a group with an agenda, not a reunification of the high elven race. It's like Dehta. Druids dont leave their respective races or the cenarion circle for it.
 * As for the leader thing it was mostly speculation.
 * Speculation doesn't belong anywhere near the infobox. It doesn't even belong in the articles unless its very simple obvious speculation like 2+2=4 types of things.Not random ideas pulled outta the air that are simply possibilities. WLast thing we want is people seeing that and thinking the information is legitimate.
 * Also the windrunners are sort of famous, at least today. Alleria had a statue, Sylvanas was the ranger general, and the Blood Elves shows pretty much she was remembered. If anyone takes up the mantle of leadership, its one of the windrunners, im pretty sure...Also that we can exclude Sylvanas.
 * I agree the Windrunners are a very prominent family. And one taking power would not be a stretch of the imagination. However this is all speculation and theres many other possibilities such as reunification with the blood elves, Goldensword, other prominent unknown high elves coming to power, simply because the windrunners are the only really promient high elf family that we know of doesnt mean there arent others' that we don't know of. Or nothing may change. Wowwiki needs to remain completely neutral, we don't want any personal opinions out there. 23:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I read somewhere (dont remember) that the alliance portion of dalaran was in control of the silver covenant. Judging by some screenshoots, lik silver cocenant balttle mage (the guards of the alliance portion) seems very true. Someone has references?--Beloren (talk) 05:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably read it here → The Silver Covenant, can also look here. 05:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I for one am VERY pleased with the addition of this faction. I cant wait to see how it further progresses the High Elf lore. It shows how though not unified just yet High Elves can and do congregate in large numbers. Had you asked someone pre BC High Elves were only viewed as scattered individuals, After Burning Crusade was released we saw that the Outland High Elves did have a "home" (Allerian Stronghold) and leadership (Captain Auric Sunchaser). And now WOTLK suggests Azeroth High Elves are starting to form up as well. I think this COULD be a path to adding High Elves as a playable "sub race" in the furure. --


 * This is not a forum, we don't care. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Existance Retconned?
Existence retconned?

Hello everyone

I have a question, should a note be put up on the High Elf section that their existance and future is currently in limbo?

I am aware this is not a forum, but I think at one point gameplay must be taken into account when publishing what the lore is, and I have found nothing new on High Elves for a long time. Gameplaywise they are not a faction, and have no faction, the few who exist at all exist with Blood Elf models and Night Elf voices and don't seem very numerous, I believe Theramore has one, Stormwind Two, a bunch are outdoor mob targets for Horde and that's it. I have found nothing on the WotLK website that indicates there will be any in Northrend. I have also looked all over Quel'thalas, and have found no High Elves. Furthermore other places you would expect to find them based on the RPG like the Scarlet Crusade fighting to destroy the Scourge also lacks them. Not only that anybody who has played Warcraft Two will instantly notice that many male Blood Elves have the same sound set as the Elven Archer/Ranger, and all Blood Elves have their lines.

I am not saying this out of any dislike for High Elves, or any personal preference, I just noticed this section, and have read it, and have noticed that there is at the very least a massive gap between the page and what I have found in the game.

I know to a large extent the lore is independent, but I just can't find how so many of these very popular Elves could exist and be completely unnoticed ingame.

I played War 2 and 3 and loved the Elves, and now have continued following them in WoW, and on the one hand I can't find any High Elves in any significant numbers, and on the other hand the Blood Elves are very familiar.

I apologize sincerely if this suggestion was out of place, and if anyone has found any recent mention of High Elves in Blizzard sources of lore like the RPG, or WotLK or updates just tell me and I will retract my suggestion for the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I do not see a retcon here and am unsure what you are suggesting, but High Elves are not gone. BTW you sign with ~ .-- 20:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a retcon, but story progression. High elves DON'T exist in significant numbers anymore.  A vast majority of them were slaughtered when the Scourge marched on Quel'Thalas, and of the survivors most have become blood elves.  The remaining high elves are thinly scattered around Azeroth and Outland. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

High elves will feature prominently in Wrath of the Lich king, seems most of them went there. There is a faction, also i have seen plenty of screenshots of High Elves in alliance groups, like the 7th Legion. And currently there is also a steady number, like the ones in the Allerian Stronghold.--Gurluas (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

You said it best Langston when you said "I know to a large extent the lore is independent". It is. Gameplay wise there was almost no meantion of Northrends existance in WoW up until very recetnly. The elemental plane is hardly ever meantioned at all in WoW, but i assure you it's there in the lore. Theres so many details in WoW lore that the game simply can't show because of gameplay limitations. Stormwind has a population of 200,000. But that can't be shown in game. Theres also not enough farms in Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge, and Duskwood to feed all those people, but they have a few farms to show that farms do exist and to represent the many that can't be shown in game because of once again: gameplay limitations. High Elves have simply not gotten their screen time. Rest assured that the High Elves do still exist, they've been dragged through the mud and numbers reduced greatly, but their existance retconed? No. A steady number still hold. The page here, which has been carefully edited, looked over, and proofed by various members with many years expierience in warcraft, is as accurate and true to the warcraft lore as it could be. Tell you a little secret as well, the High Elves have a far more prominent role in WotLK. If there was any doubt of their continued existance by some before, there won't be very soon. 00:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Even if all the high elves were gone, that wouldn't mean their existance was retconned in anything remotely resembling a way, shape, or form. It would just mean that they died out.
 * And please read the article and the sources. The reason that high elves use blood elf models is because there is no biological difference between the blood elves and high elves.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually there is, "points at eyes and skin color"--Gurluas (talk) 09:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, since 90% of the high elves became blood elves, I am not sure if the population is big enough to go on for long. This isn't including any marriages with other races that have/will occur. Well model wise there isn't a big difference I guess.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 09:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Gurluas, a better way for me to put it is that they're 'physiologically the same race. Literally, the only difference is the eyes and the hair (which doesn't count as a biological change)-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks guys you answered my question

Thought BEs were mutating into nasty things?  Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  03:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC) They are actually, or were...With the restored Sunwell they could be moving towards redemption.--Gurluas (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Dont think so...:they are addicted to Fel thus leading them through the same way as Man'ari Eredar.Back into the the talk there are more HEs than gnomes and trolls Eity 11/05/2008

Your info is outdated. Azeroth's Blood elves control their addiction and will not become felblood or wretched. Blizzard's current word is gnomes outnumber high elves. Zarnks (talk) 00:13, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Actualy no. Sources all state otherwise. 04:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

No Blizzard has stated repeatedly Gnomes outnumber high elves. Zarnks (talk) 20:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

CMs have. And without providing numbers. Theres no reason not to believe the official sources themselves. there is also no reason to think they are outdated and noo longer accurate. 20:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard themselves has stated it repeatedly. From Blizzards own words.

"In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves do not gather in any significant numbers, nor do they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture--only a past filled with glory and regret." 


 * Thats exactly the post i'm talking about. No qualatiative numbers. In a world with millions of inhabitants, twenty thousand can be considered "so few". Again it offers no qualitative information. A very vague and safe non-answer from a CM. 22:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard has said High elves don't have enough population to be a playable race. Gnomes and Darkspear trolls are playable races. Clearly they have higher numbers. Zarnks (talk) 00:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Thats like saying 2+2=5. Doesnt add up. Why does it mean there are higher numbers? Is there a hidden rule there has to be a certain number to be playable? No. Blizzard uses a lot of different factors to decide which races become playable. Population numbers are a concern but are not the only nor even the main concern. You are jumping the gun. 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Alliance shunned
From the blood elf article:

Tensions from the aftermath of the Second War have become burning hatreds. The high elves officially withdrew from the Alliance after the Second War under the belief that not enough troops were sent to protect Quel'thalas, and thus led to a needlessly engorged amount of slaughter and destruction. A few high elves remained under their own volition to continue serving the Alliance, but the loyalty of even these voluntary troops waned after the second sacking of Quel'Thalas by Arthas, to which the Alliance took no steps in intervening. Finally, with Lord Garithos's dismissive, blatantly racist treatment of high elven troops and attempt to execute many blood elves for accepting boats from naga, even more fell under the sway of Kael'thas' new vision for his people, and the high elves who remained loyal even after all of the Alliance's poor policies in dealing with the elven race still faced discrimination from the very people they served in Theramore and Stormwind.

So i am adding the statement again.--Gurluas (talk) 17:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for drawing my attention to it. That section is uncited and flagged as speculation, and will likely be removed. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Notable high elves
what makes telestra a notable high elf? in that case malicia should be added..--Beloren (talk) 08:33, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Maybe because she is an actual boss, and she joined the blue dragonflight, also you will feel her presence in a few quests, just like you did with Pathaleon the Calculator in TBC.--Gurluas (talk) 23:06, 11 October 2008 (UTC

More on Notable High elves
Why do we not list Sylvanas, I know she is a Forsaken now but she's still technically a high elf and she was notable even during her time was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * She was on the list for a while, but technically she was a high elf. She is an undead elf, and thats why she's classified as forsaken.  I'm not really sure if she should be added again... most people know her as the "Dark Lady". --Blayaden (talk) 01:12, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I should also note that the Forsaken don't have a noteable list of their own, (Sylvanas is one of the few important) and that Queen Azshara, Lady Vashj, Lord Xavius, and Dath'remar Sunstrider are all listed on the nightelf page, despite becomeing something else.---Lego3400 (talk) 04:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, thats true... add her if you want, but I think there was another reason why she was removed... I dunno. Someone needs to add a list for the Forsaken page.--Blayaden (talk) 14:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)