Talk:Worgen/Archive01

Leader?
Who would be classified as the leader of the Worgen. At first glance, most would say Arugal, but that is but a small fraction of the amount of worgen, that is merely his transformed worgen. In reality, we can not say who their leader is. I suggest we put it as unknown. ~Nicholas

Thrall is the leader of the orcs, but only one faction... so far, we know they're independent or under Arugal. Saimdusan 22:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Velinde Starsong lead them all, exept the were-worgen until she died.-- 22:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Lord Genn Greymane is responisble for the construction of the Greymane wall, and ruler of Gilneas, seeming the most logical ruler of the Worgen. Arugal would most likely stay the ruler of the savage Worgen, not necessarily the tamed ones of the Alliance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Obviously now that we know what happened to the people of Gilneas this is known... bare in mind this topic was made back in 2007. Remember to sign your posts. 23:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Start up the rumor mill again...
With the Black Temple patch, worgen have gained a huge batch of animations they didn't have previously. (You can see them via the model viewer.) Animations for kneeling, sitting on a mount, using shield bash and whirlwind, sprinting, using 1-handed, 2-handed weapons, and ranged weapons, talking, eating, pointing, sheathing weapons and more. Very curious that they'd get animations for weapons and mounts, since they're such bestial humanoids. I doubt they'd just add all these animations for giggles. I wonder what they're for? --Presea 21:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, someone found out that Blizz is making a WoW II expansion set, so maybe they'll be the next race... (Mr.X8 14:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

No, that's probably not it. The playable races all have lots more animations, female and male models, and equippable armor. The worgen model, while given lots of animation, still falls short of those things. Some might dismiss the new animations as being there for the handful of things that temporarily transform a player into a worgen, but stuff like emotes and an animation for sitting on a mount seems to rule that out. --Presea 18:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

One of the books you can loot off the ground of the library in Karazhan will give you a buff, Torment of the Worgen, that turns you into a worgen for a period of time. I would assume that the addition to the models would be because of this. --Karye 16:04, June 14 2007 (PST)

That's what I'm talking about. I could understand them adding the variety of attack/weapon animations for that purpose, but throwing in animations for stuff like sitting on a mount and eating just for a 10 second indoors only buff? Nah! --Presea 02:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, now we know.. Aaronwhines 06:15, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Pyrewood Village
I heard in WoW the Pyrewood citizens turn into were-wolves (worgen whatever). When does this usually occur in US time? Does anyone know? (Mr.X8 20:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC))


 * Just near or after sundown, in-game time, depends on your server. They change back to humans at or around sunrise.Baggins 20:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * So Pacific time. Thanx. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * No Pacific time or not wouldn't matter, unless your server is set to PST, Server time is what dictates it. i.e. when its sunrise or sunset in game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I believe his comment was in reference to his server. -- 22:02, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought since Blizz is stationed in California all servers were at pacific time. I've learned a lot since then :O Mr.X8 18:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it around 8:00 P.M. realm time that they transform into Worgen? Okolorion (talk) 22:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Elune's Interests
Velinde Starsong Prayed to Elune and received the Scyth of Elune. The Staff Summoned the Worgen. Why would the goddess of the moon want Worgen to be summoned to Azeroth? What relationship does she have with the creatures? And how would she have first come in contact with them? Ur may have received the direction in finding the Worgen through Elune as well. But when he refused to do so, the goddess chose Velinde instead, granting her the scythe. The Worgen suddenly appearing on both continents at the same time is very suspicious to me. That the devices though which they enter, the people involved, and the sources of the information all seem to contradict the other leads me to assume that either…

1. 	Blizz really let this piece of lore hit the fan, Ur wrote the Worgen were dangerous Animals capable of nothing but violence, the source of this information comes from his ’research’ on other Worlds beyond Azeroth. One can only gather from The Book of Ur that indeed, Azeroth is in dire straights now that the Worgen have entered this world. Elune granted Velinde Starsong’s prayer with the artifact, The Scyth of Elune. She did this knowing the that it would summon Worgen. Why would the goddess of the Night elven race and embodiment of the Moon allow any such creature enter the world she has protected for Millennia?

2.	Elune through her divine power, shaped the events that would bring Worgen to the Azeroth. It is fact that the Worgen refused the rule of the Burning Legion and are fighting a losing battle on their home world. They fought under the leadership of Velinde Starsong against the Burning Legion in Ashenvale. Ur may have been shown the Worgen and believed falsely that they were evil. Nowhere in lore are his theories, found in The Book of Ur, given credence. The Worgen’s violence is always encouraged with the leader ship of those prone to violence and evil, such as Arugal.

I propose That Elune has orchestrated the coming of the Worgen as a way of saving them from destruction. She saw their bravery and courage when facing the Burning Legion, and deemed that bringing them home like a bunch of lost dogs would be beneficial for both the Worgen and Azeroth in the future. This makes since she used the most advanced culture to do this. Dalaran and her own beloved night elves, this leads me to believe she wished these races to lead the Worgen to rebuild their lost culture. Also, the people of Dalaran and the Night elves needed all the help they could gather. With Lordearon undersige and Velinde Starsong fighting against the remaning demons in Ashenvale. It is also possible that ‘Elune’s’ intentions were not so nobel and that ‘Elune’ is not Elune at all but another force working for a darker purpose.(Rush 03:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Alternatively, it may just be that some Worgen are violent as Ur believed, while others are not as violent, and the Scythe of Elune's purpose was to bring the more gentle ones to help fight off the demons. Then again, those summoned with the Scythe by Jitters were just as violent as those summoned by Arugal, so the nature of the Worgen may also be reliant on the one who summoned them (sort of an imprinting measure, like when certain animals take creatures to be their mother).


 * The Monster Guide has an entry about Worgen concerning both their culture and behavior. They are described as thoroughly evil there. I suspect that Elune, if it was really her, simply manipulated the Worgen into obeying her Sentinel. --Tulon 18:20, 6 October 2007

I was thinking, what if the Worgen's homeworld is in fact the Emerald Dream? They're supposed to come from another dimension, not necessarily another world. My theory is, Elune or Ysera created the Worgen during the war of the ancients to protect the Emerald Dream from the demons, which is what Velinde saw in her vision. But recently, large groups of worgen have been corrupted by the Nightmare, becoming the mindless killing machines Ur describes in his book. Just speculation though, I believe Blizz will explain the Worgen origins sooner or later.--Morgaur 13:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ur wrote his book long before the Nightmare began affecting the Emerald Dream. Also, as a night elf, Velinde almost certainly would have recognized the Dream when she saw it. -- Dark T Zeratul 14:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, no one knows exactly how old the Nightmare is. If its origin is an Old God, it could have been slowly growing for decades, or even centuries, from an insignificant disturbance to the menace it's nowadays. And I don't remember reading anywhere that every Night Elf could enter in the Emerald Dream, I think it was something just the druids could do under special circumstances. However, it's just a theory, I don't like the idea of the Worgen belonging to another new, unknown world, it would just add more sci-fi feeling to an universe that needs its original dark fantasy style to return.--Morgaur 18:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean the dark fantasy universe where a bunch of green-skinned aliens built a stargate and attacked humans through it? -- Dark T Zeratul
 * Magical portals to another worlds or planes are present in several fantasy stories and even in some of the ancient human mythologies; so I think that it's more fantasy-like than the Naaru and their "spaceships". I've never said that the worgen don't come from another world, and I think it's the most plausible theory; I just wanted to give another idea. And what I was talking about is that I wouldn't like Blizzard to explain the origin of the Worgen in the same way they did with the Draenei, never said that my theory was better than others exposed here.--Morgaur 22:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Now think about it. If their home IS the Emerald Dream (and they're somehow corrupted by the Nightmare), wouldn't it fit perfectly that their enemy is called the "Emerald Flame"? To me, it sounds as a Dragon-like defending force. (Miros2 20 July 2009)

There is nothing that says how long the Nightmare has been around. Also, a Night Elf would not immediatly "recognize" the emerald dream, however, they would most likely immediatly recognize The Burning Legion, so there wouldn't have been any "Emerald Flame" name. I'm fairly certain, therefore, we can rule out the possibiltiy that what Velinde saw was The Burning Legion, or else she would have described it as such. The emerald flame is probably the green dragonflight destroying The Emerald Nightmare's corruption, which means destroying Worgen if they are corrupted by the emerald nightmare. I also have another topic to bring up... At the Stormrage burrow dens, where the druids go to emerald dream, the emerald nightmare has been seeping in, bringing with it "Minions of Omen"... Which are wolves, during the lunar festival... Omen also comes out during the lunar festival, a giant two headed wolf who once received the blessing of elune... Now, if Velinde has the Scythe of Elune and it summons Worgen... That's a pretty blatant connection that Worgen come from the Emerald Dream. Lordrayken (talk) 09:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

New!
If you have mdelwiever, you can see that worgens have been updated. Now they have Bags of Animations/fightning styles. BTW their leader is Genn Greymane, leader of gilneas people.


 * As for the latter, no we do not know that. For the former - this was already reported above, due to the inclusion of a Worgen form in Karazhan. 14:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I still think they have a deeper meaning...i mean...10 second indoor...why add swim?

mount? and so on...


 * don't forget to sign with your, as to the swim animation... Hakkar has a swim animation, that doesn't mean we're going to play gods. Coobra 22:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Counter: Many models have re-used skeletons which include animations they'd never, ever use (the Twin Emperors dancing, for example).  However, this is a different case.  The worgen have a unique model/skeleton which started with few animations, and out of the blue received a huge amount of new animations (which are unique to the model and not simply reused from another source), which leads me, and many others, to suspect something is up.  --Presea 07:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Many additions have been made to models along the way and have yet to be implemented. The animations for the worgen may have been taken from a model that shares its skeleton. They added a few because of the situation in karazhan and could have decided to transfer the rest over for the heck of it. Goblins have had animations added to them along the way, and broekn as well. Too much is being read into this. 08:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That's the thing...if the worgen shared their skeleton with another model which also received upgrades I'd write it off as coincidence. But no, worgen do not share a skeleton with any other model, so the animations had to be specifically added.  (As for goblins, both male and female are a heavily modified male dwarf model, with a handful of new animations, which explains that.  Many models, like I have said before, are based off of a different model featuring animations they'd never use.  But the worgen model is a different situation.)  --Presea 18:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, worgen will not be a player race in Wrath of the Lich King. Blizzard only has its mind on that right now, and the upcoming Sunwell patch, they aren't thinking about worgen. No the main reason for adding new animations to the worgen was simply for the book that gives you the worgen curse in Kharazan.


 * Besides you may not have known this, but the swimming animation was added for the uber giant worgen boss battle in the hall of Upside Down Sinners just below Kharazan, but the dungeon was never implemented, ;)(or it was just added in for the heck of it, since they were working on it for Kharazan at the time)


 * Now if they took the time to create a female worgen maybe your speculation would have a little better standing.Baggins 18:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't speculate what the worgen model improvements would be used for, and I'm definitely not proposing it's an upcoming playable race. It could very easily be used for a minor thing, such as a costume in the future like the Time-Lost Figurine.  (Arakkoa have a huge amount of animations they never use, but except for their animation for sitting on a mount, that trinket allows players to make full use of the others.)  I'm just stating that all of these animations that can't be used in Karazhan or Shadowfang Keep are very suspicious, as if they'll be used in something in the future.  --Presea 22:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Worgen will appear in Northrend (pretty sure I came across one, and killed it) - if they appear near water, swimming anims are needed. 18:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Laugh?
The Laugh animation is gone? and so is wave? and work? did blizzard accidently release too much? Sleep is also gone :( Hmm...i got the idea that we are actually talking about a future druid/shaman form?--Gurluas 17:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)



Remember this?, well i was correct. The new Northrend Worgen model uses the animations that were stealth removed. Here is an example...--Gurluas (talk) 15:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)



The worgen in Northrend
When Kirkburn said he saw worgen in Northrend, he was right. Arugal is confirmed to be resurrected, and he's brought worgen with him to Northrend. I guess this explains what all those new worgen animations were for! I wonder if Arugal is repeating what happened to Pyrewood Village, or if he's bringing in more from their native land. (The article, http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=138018&page=2, calls them "Worgen werewolves, but it could be a misnomer.) I guess we'll have to wait and see what's brewing in Northrend.  WoWWiki-Presea (talk) 23:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Many of the new animations were actually added due to the book in Karazhan. But it will be interesting to see if their are level 70 Sons of Arugal in Grizzly Hills to gank us :p Leviathon (talk) 03:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd love to see the mages of dalaran give us a temporary buff or disguise, of a Worgen, to sneak in to find info for a quest or something like that. They gave Worgen a swim animation... no water in karazhan =P. 03:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well of course if they were going to add some animations they would add them all :p . I'd imagine a quest will have us turn into a Worgen though. Leviathon (talk) 04:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * *grin* 07:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As i explained many of them were stealth removed like the laugh, work and so on.
 * Im pretty positive thoose are Wotlk animations.--Gurluas (talk) 20:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

And there's going to be a faction of wolverine-men in Sholozar (who are against the super murlocs, kinda like the Scryers/Aldor) so maybe they're just going to use their models or slightly tweak them later on.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  21:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

It's confirmed at. Maybe Arugal will be there too.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  00:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Eating retconned
From Lands of Conflict:

Pure killing beasts, worgen tend to attack any creatures that they encounter, regardless of whether animal, humanoid, Scourge or something even more fearsome. Strangely, however, worgen refuse to feed on the remains of their victims, preferring to shred and tear the corpses and then to return immediately to prowling. Rumors suggest that worgen somehow receive sustenance continually from their native dimension… as well as guidance from a distant force.

However, from the monster guide;

Worgen society is patriarchal, with the eldest male leading the pack. Worgen never challenge leadership; the patriarch leads until he is physically incapable of doing so any longer, at which point his younger kin devour him. The worgen see this not as cruelty, but a great honor — they consume the bodies of their fallen as well as their victims. They believe the flesh and blood of their own kind improves their strength and cunning.

So it would seem their killing without eating has been overwritten.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 02:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe it's due to a difference between Arugal's group and Velinde's group? I haven't read either, so it's just a guess.  Honestly though, we'll just have to wait and see.  It may even be a difference between individual 'families', like how different Orc Clans and Human Nations behave differently.

I know this is just picking at itty bitty little things, but LoC says "victims", while monster guide says the young eat the physically incapable leader. Perhaps they just eat the leader? The leader doesn't really classify as a "victim" in my opinion, since they worgen DO consider it an honor. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 00:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

If you note the whole way through, it says "The worgen see this not as cruelty, but as great honor- they consume the bodies of their fallen as well as their victims." Tweak the Whacked (talk) 16:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that the latter applies to Velinde's group (she saw them having a society on their homeworld, after all, it's not as if they wouldn't have traditions or culture) and the former just being Arugal's.

A race in trouble...
This is pure speculation, but what if the Worgen were once a race similar to the Draenei or the Orcs, and that the dimensional split between Azeroth and their world is causing them to develop a crazed rage that causes them to attack everyone and everything that gets in their way? It could explain a lot, like the fact that they don't eat anything they kill (it could be that it just isn't on their diet list, or that they eat something that doesn't or has yet to exist in Azeroth, and yet is plentiful on their world), and it also explains why they would easily attack anybody, including the person who summoned them; it could be out of revenge for the people of Azeroth, as the Worgen could believe that Azeroth is the cause of their dismay.

Lord Halcyon (talk) 22:31, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't know there was a current dimensional split between Azeroth and their world. "...it also explains why they would easily attack anybody, including the person who summoned them..." They never attacked Velinde Starsong or Arugal, the two summoners, did they? I think the worgen knew/know the cause of their dismay on their world already, the Lords of the Emerald Flame and not the people of Azeroth. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 11:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)