Forum:What is Arthas alignment?


 * Moved from Talk:Arthas Menethil

Until the day when Arthas get hold of the sword Frostmourne, we know with great certainty that he was thoroughly good. There are fans who think he was already evil when he killed all who lived in Stratholme. If we look at it, it was only expeditious action, because the people there had the incurable plague, and would only increase the Scourge forces. I can understand the disdain for Arthas Uther must have had. Because that would mean they have to kill all who lived there, men, women and children!

I can understand why Uther was furious and left the site to its terrible fate. But Arthas did the right thing if you look at it in a strict ethical standpoint. Arthas agenda. - There was no salvation for the people who lived there and if he had not killed them they just spread and kill more. Uther's agenda. - We can not kill them because they are still innocent people. There must be a cure. It has passed many years since this incident and there is still no cure for the plague. If Arthas declined to purge the city. Think of the disastrous ramifications it could have been. Arthas takes the fleet and heads to Northrend to end the Dread Lord Mal'ganis Arthas get hold of the sword and (not entirely) kills Mal'ganis. Arthas goes home and kills his father the king. -Waitwutt? ...

Did Ner'zhul turn him mad so he become a evil puppet or did he slightly Mind Control him? Or did Arthas slowly start to think that the immortal life as undead was FTW and said to himself -pom tiddly pom the Lich King is a god I shall now follow him and kill everyone I love in his name? Similar to Anakin skywalker in episode 3 of Star Wars? In the movie from the citadel when Tirion destroys Froustmourne he says

Fall of the Lich King Outro Arthas lies supine, the shattered remnants of Frostmourne beside him. He starts as the ghost of Terenas Menethil materializes over him, and the characteristic blue glow dissipates from his eyes. As Terenas kneels next to him, Arthas places a hand on his father's chest.

-Arthas Menethil: Father! Is it... over?

Is he happy to have been defeated, and finally die?

Terenas lays a comforting hand on Arthas' gauntlet.

'''Why does he do so? Is it because he is sad about his son's fate?'''

Terenas Menethil II: At long last. No king rules forever, my son. Arthas Menethil: I see... only darkness... before... me...

'''Is it that he refers to the countless atrocities that the Lich King made? Perhaps it is so simple that he sees the dark because he dies. Many think it will be black when you die.'''

Arthas' eyes roll back into his head and he dies, his hand falling to the ground. Terenas closes his son's eyes and gently lays him on the ground as Tirion walks in.

Terenas Menethil II: Without its master's command, the restless Scourge will become an even greater threat to this world.

Who is the master, is he talking about Arthas or is the Lich King?

Terenas stands, facing Tirion.

Terenas Menethil II: Control must be maintained. There must always be a Lich King.

Terenas' ghost disappears.

Chaotic Good? Lawful Good? Chaotic Evil? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * The Lich King is confirmed to be Chaotic Evil in the RPG, though I personally think he's a little more lawful than that. Arthas's alignment at the moment of his death is uncomfirmed; it isn't even clear if he was actually redeemed. One of the sourcebooks might shed some light on his previous alignment (it's probably the Lich King's Chaotic Evil). --Ragestorm 01:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Arthas is dead. That's all that's important. --Joshmaul (talk) 22:38, July 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have tried to find out as much as I can on Arthas, but his alignment is unknown after Frostmourne. After that point, there is hardly any information.
 * Nor is there any kind of explanation for how he began to follow the Lich King.
 * Many speculations exist. Eg he chose to go over to the dark side and liked it, many believe he became corrupted by the Lich King and deceived by the voice of Frostmourne. There are also crazy theories ::that he voluntarily chose to be controlled by the Lich King so he could get close to kill him to protect humanity and imprison the dreadful Scourge, which he almost did when Ner'zhul was planning to merge with Arthas to he could leave his prison. Arthas became the dominant mind but 'Chris Metz' has said that by merging the senses, the result is a mix of both.
 * When asked, "What's the truth about the new Lich King?", Chris Metzen replied: "Arthas and Ner'zhul have become a perfect fusion of one being - Arthas' personality and body with Ner'zhul's wisdom, ::experience, power and EVIL."


 * After peering into the Lich King's heart, Tirion Fordring remarks that "there's nothing left to redeem" and "there is no Arthas Menethil anymore - there is only the Lich King."
 * Here is an interesting part of a quest you do in Northrend, It’s when you are helping Tirion Fordring to enter the cathedral that is located close to the Icecrown citadel in Icecrown.


 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: It is time. May the Light give us strength.
 * The party pauses outside the cathedral proper for just a moment before continuing.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: Keep your heads down and follow my lead.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: Here it comes. Stand ready.
 * Fordring leads the party to one of the pews as they wait for the Chosen Zealots to walk in and approach High Invoker Basaleph, laying the heart before him. As the zealots leave...
 * Chosen Zealot says: We lost many to the faceless ones, my lord. But we succeeded in retrieving the heart from Naz'anak.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: Something's wrong... I sense a dark presence.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: The Lich King is here. May the Light guide our blades.
 * The Lich King says: Uninvited guests! Did you think you'd go unnoticed inside my dominion?
 * The Lich King says: I must confess... you were not altogether unexpected. I hope you find your final resting place... to your liking.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: You sound a little too confident. Especially considering the way our last encounter ended.
 * The Lich King says: Last time we met, you had the advantage of fighting on holy ground. You'll find that our situation has been... reversed.
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: That might be, but I don't need to stand on holy ground to run that disembodied heart of yours through with the Ashbringer.
 * The Lich King says: I call your bluff. You're a paladin after all. Your obsession with redemption goes beyond the inane.
 * The Lich King says: You surely wouldn't destroy humanity's only chance to redeem its most wayward son. You'd sooner die!


 * This part is very interesting since we cannot confirm of who he is speaking of. Is the Lich King really a evil Arthas who talks about himself?
 * Or is it the merge of both Ner’zhul and Arthas who is speaking? If so, then that could possibly mean that Arthas Menethil isn't the one who speaks. That mean that this is the Arthas and ::Ner’zhulmerge that speaks.


 * As Chris Metzen said, "Arthas and Ner'zhul have become a perfect fusion of one being - Arthas' personality and body with Ner'zhul's wisdom, experience, power and EVIL."
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: The heart... the last remaining vestige of your humanity. I had to stop it from being destroyed. I had to see for myself. And at last I'm sure...
 * Highlord Tirion Fordring says: Only shadows from the past remain. There's nothing left to redeem!


 * NOTE-“Personal speculation”
 * It seems that Tirion have come to the conclusion that the only way to free Arthas Menethil is to kill the Lich King and give Arthas peace.
 * NOTE-“Personal speculation”


 * Fordring charges the heart and runs it through with Ashbringer, knocking himself out, killing Basaleph and blasting the Lich King away as the heart explodes, dropping the Lich King down to 30% health
 * The Lich King yells: Arrrrggggggggggggh!!!!
 * Disguised Crusader yells: Tirion's down! Defend him with your lives!
 * The Lich King yells: You... will pay for that, old man. Slay them all!
 * The room full of NPCs circles around the party
 * (Alliance): Thassarian yells: I hope you fellows don't mind if we crash this party. I brought some old friends with me!
 * (Horde): Koltira Deathweaver yells: Take courage, crusaders. You do not fight alone!
 * The friendly death knights and crusaders dispatch the room. Darion then opens a Death Gate to the Crusaders' Pinnacle
 * Highlord Darion Mograine says: Quick, through the portal! He won't stay down for long.
 * (Alliance): Thassarian says: Looks like whatever Tirion did put some hurt on the Lich King. It's too bad we can't finish him off....
 * (Horde): Koltira Deathweaver says: The Lich King is badly hurt. We ought to stay behind and finish him.
 * Highlord Darion Mograine says: Patience... we will get our chance soon enough. Be content that for once, it is Tirion who is in our debt.
 * The party takes the portal before the Lich King finishes winding up the Lich King's Fury, which would instantly kill anyone foolish enough to remain behind.


 * Much facts points to the conclusion that Arthas Menethil’s alignment is chaotic good but not necessary true. There is still possible that this is Arthas Menethil who is speaking. That would mean that ::his alignment is chaotic evil. --Mirdamor (talk) 20:10, July 7, 2010 (UTC)''


 * I think that Arthas' alignment is truly Chaotic Good. All that he did before seizing Frostmourne was, in his mind, the right thing to do. He never thought of it as evil. He was determined to kill Mal'Ganis and save his people, no matter what the cost. As for following the orders of the Lich King, it was Frostmourne, which sucked away Arthas' soul and took control of what was left of him, therefore turning him to the Lich King's side. When Tirion destroyed Frostmourne, one of the spirits freed in the chaos was Arthas' own. It returned his will and his good mind. When he says "Father! Is it.. over?" he means the torture of being able to see what he was doing, and not being able to do anything about it. It's just like in The Road to Damnation, where Kel'thuzad sees the undead women killing her husband, and letting out a sound that made it clear that she knew what she was doing but couldn't stop it. --Sheffi (talk) 20:52, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * What's with these book long comments.... all of this should be moved to the forums. 21:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * So what is Arthas alignment? Chaotic good? --Mirdamor (talk) 16:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * lol, is this going to be the same as the Gul'dan thing? I really don't see why we need these fancy alignments, its WoW, not DnD :P [[Image:Pokeball.jpg]] Max Krist (talk contribs) 05:51, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just want to find out if the true Arthas was good or evil. :) Can someone without presenting theoretical facts and believe that what they believe is right. If Arthas was good or evil through his life? With one hundred percent certainty? --Mirdamor (talk) 00:23, July 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * In a word: no. It's not possible to state, with one hundred percent certainty, what Arthas' definitive alignment was, at least in my judgment, because that's based heavily on opinion.  Flyspeck (talk) 01:33, July 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sadly true when I think about it... --Mirdamor (talk) 02:47, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

When Arthas took up Frostmourne, he loses his soul. A person without a soul can not feel anything. You have no feelings. Imagine if you had no feelings. No ability to feel love, fear or anger. A person without emotions can not feel anything. eg If a Druid who love trees would get such a permit, he would not bother if every tree on the planet died, he would not lift a finger if all his family were murdered in front of him. This was what happened to Arthas. He lost his soul. a soulless person can not feel any emotions or understand love. With Ner'zhul whispered by Frostmourne, it was easy to steer Arthas choice. Since he can not feel any emotions so he can not consider something. You can not determine if you do not want to kill someone close to you because you can not feel love so you have no ability to even consider not doing it. He was never forced, he obeyed. If he had his soul, he had almost certainly resisted Ner'zhuls iron will.

Trying to describe a person's thinking if he does not have any feelings could occupy an entire book.

This clarifies that Arthas alignment is chaotic good. I look at his past choices, depending on the situation and find that suitable. What happened when Frostmourne was destroyed, and the Lich King was defeated was that all the souls that were taken by Frostmourne, was freed. It included Arthas. He loses his helmet "Helm of Domination" which merges Arthas and Ner'Zhul. Arthas's body regain feelings. Arthas can think independently.

Arthas is now the same condition as before he laid hands on Frostmourne. The only thing you can blame him for is what happened before Frostmourne. Given that his entire country has been invaded by the undead monsters that are on the way to eradicate humanity, I think no one can blame his drastic methods. Uther maybe did not understand the great seriousness and the entire planet's living was at stake. the Scourge had been able to eradicate the planet!

It was not of malice, he acted as he did. Allow me to quote Miss Jaina Proudmoore "Arthas is only doing what he believes is right!". -Note- This is slightly taken out of context.

This is personal speculation and theories. However I think we can edit Arthas alignment to chaotic good because of the wall of text proving it. I leave the editing to anyone else, I just want to find out for my self. --Mirdamor (talk) 02:34, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Chaotic Good, yes. Without a doubt it's good. I'm really angry at all these people saying Arthas is evil. But well, what can we call the 'second arthas'? Arthas Menethil was in the blade, and a piece of him still in Arthas, making it connect and thus able to whisper and steer Arthas's judgment. Like saying, "Liar." when he said he feels no remorse or pity. It's the soul vurses the body. The body must move .. it has thought. However, while he remembers all, a soulless person such as Arthas is under the obedience of the Old Lich King. With the Ascension, he became the Lich King. He owns himself now, however has Ner'zhul's evil. Because he has this, when he looked at Arthas, he looked at his emotions as a stupid burden. Thus he banished/destroyed Arthas from him, and did the same to Ner'zhul. Now, only King Arthas Menethil remains. Because the Prince never had the chance to become king; he had died when he took Frostmourne. This is how I personally distinguish them; the King Arthas Menethil was there when Terenas died (kiled him) and was the one who claimed he was now King. Prince Arthas never had such a time. King Arthas Menethil is dead, and I like the idea of thinking that the person who said "Father! .. is it .. over?" is actually Prince Arthas returning to his still-living body (his soul is freed .His body is still alive. Let's go in! Oh wait .. it's dying .. noooo---) Zamoonda (talk) 16:29, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

According to this article: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/900710701 Arthas was evile even when he was a paladin. KSM899 (talk) 12:05, 14 January 2011 (UTC)