Talk:Draenei/Analysis

Comments
Do the folk at Blizzard think we don't pay attention to the stories they attach to their pretty graphics? Well some of us do. And some (or, me, anyway) notice the massive inconsistencies presented by the new "Draenei" race. To spare the rant, it's almost insulting. And it's almost enough to make me not even want to bother buying the expansion set. As I understand it, all we'd need the extra disc for is the new races and new profession, right? I'll keep my money then, in that case, as I find I don't really have any interest in any of it. Every little derivative, lamely-explicated thing they tack onto the Warcraft universe just gets less and less tolerable, especially as things get brought in with painfully irreverent disregard for the consistency of the world they're trying to create. Oh well. ... As long as it sells product I'm sure Blizzard's fine with the tradeoff. --Shpantzen! 01:15, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Nope, they hate us. They really really need to address the lore issues. It's not just lore geeks like us that noticed. I let a friend whose never read a lick of lore read the first chapter of the lore and the new BC page. They immediately gave a WTF and why? They screwed up the entire story of the betrayal with this. We really need a half way decent explanation from blizz. --Elfey

I wonder why the orcs stranded on Draenor (you know, the ones who went on to serve Magtheridon) didn't similarly mutate so as to be unrecognizable. --Illidan Rocks 04:02, 3 Nov 2005 (EST)

Look up screenshots of Hellfire. You'll find a picture of an orc, red, and with spikes on it. It seems to be a mutation of the Fel Orcs due to the demons. --Haddon 23:43, 23 May 2006 (EDT) "As I understand it, all we'd need the extra disc for is the new races and new profession, right?"

No it included all new content including all new lands, and outland. without the disk you don't get to to those places.Baggins 01:31, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Different biology?
 * --Bevans (FeldmanSkitzoid) 07:37, 3 Nov 2005 (EST)

Maybe. If so it's lucky for them. I also wonder if the Draenei are even interested in reproducing now, since they must be kinda unattractive to one another (can you imagine if you and your significant other changed forms one day and looked like that?). --Illidan Rocks 21:25, 3 Nov 2005 (EST)

Think about the poor orcs ! Their wives ain't so cute too ;) Talking about the Draenei, I wonder where will be their capital. It seems that the most probable is Northern Kalimdor, next to Darnassus (an Alliance capital, because Blood Elves' will be at Quel'Thalas, very close to Undercity (a Horde City) ; so the Draenei would start very close to Durotar (and now they hate Orcs, as I would say in french, "ça promet des bonnes bastons", or so prepare for fighting xD). Otherwise, I'm very upset because I was an Ardent defender of Pandarens and the Draenei are annoying me !
 * --Kirochi 14:00, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)

Their wives ain't so cute too ;)

The manual and website don't tell you this, but one of the orcs' racial traits is: "Beer Goggles." :p Seriously though, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, and I remember an orc grunt saying something in one of the missions in Warcraft III like "at least (the quillboars) aren't as ugly as the humans!" They consider each other beautiful and that's what counts.

It's unfortunate that the Draenei would pull a Daelin and all go on a crusade to destroy orcs, but if there was ever an understandable reason for prejudice the Draenei have it. They are all old, and they all remember what the savage Horde did: the brutal slaughter of their people, almost to extinction. The survivors were forced to hide among the orcs for decades after that and watch their barbaric behaviour without being able to do anything. These Draenei have been hungry for revenge most of their lives, and on top of that they have never met a single orc who behaved honorably!

As for Pandarens, don't give up hope; Chen or another one might be added to the game one of these days, and an NPC is better than nothing. Chen's kegs are already in the game, after all.--Illidan Rocks 13:37, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)

Oh really ? Where are they ? From where do they hail ? I WANNA MEET THEM (of course for diplomatic reasons ... exchanging beers ^^') Go on for the Philosopher's Stout ! K) --Kirochi 14:51, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)

Chen's Empty Keg is a Horde quest in the Barrens ^---^ http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=958 --Rawtoast 14:33, 30 Dec 2005 (EST)

I think found out something about the capital city, Exodar from watching the E3 intro movie the second. The building they showe, which is the same in Draenei pic was smoking a little. I believe that the captial is actually the Dimensional Ship they came in. --Technoshaman 14 Jul 2006 (EST)


 * I think Metzen (or some such similar person) informed us of that at some point. Unless I'm very much mistaken, it's been posted on the Exodar page, or one of the ones related to the ship. --Ragestorm 15:22, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

Draenei Shamans, Night Elf Paladins, Blood Elf Paladins

 * During one of the videos the reporter asks if rumors of Draenei being able to get Shamans, and Blood and/or Night Elves being able to get Paladins had truth to it. The programmer says he knows of the idea, but he's not allowed to comment on it. I don't know but the "no comment" seems suspicious, couldn't have just said, "No its not true". Because a "No comment" in this situtaion seems to say, yes there is some truth to it but we can't say anything yet...Baggins 10:26, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * However, Chris Metzen in the NYT interview pretty much shot down Alliance shamans directly. My guess was that Mercer just didn't want to talk about the issue, haven already been pressed into saying a few things he probably shouldn't have on that same interview. --Xmuskrat 10:43, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Maybe not Alliance Shamans(and therefore no blood elf paladins, or horde would have an imbalance over alliance) but that still leaves possibility of possibly night elf paladins I guess(unless the interviewer was mixing up Night and Blood names)...Baggins 11:05, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Night Elves paladins would be rather hard to explain in any logical way as they have no conections with Holy Light in thier history. They do have priests, but they pray to Elune, not the Holy Light and thus can't be paladins. From balance point of view - BC is going to give Alliance 3 paladin races, while Horde had 3 shaman races from start, i don't see why they would want to give Alliance 4 paladin races, while still leaving Horde with 3 shaman races (becose there is no way Forsaken or Blood Elves can be shamans). --Nea 09:04, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Wow, just wow. After reading the news that they are going to allow Draenei to roll shamans and blood elves to roll paladins I was quite in shock. However, after thinking it over, having that blessing of might AND windfury totem on my warrior might be quite superior in pvp :). Seems like they want to bring differences between factions in class skills (it was already mentioned few times, that every class/race combo will have it's own unique skills like priests do). On a side note, a BE paladin is actually going to utilize the power of mana tap + arcane torrent, as paladin's fight are rather long (and u need 1 minute to cast 3 mana taps).--Nea 17:24, 21 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Guess I was right again, the no comment, was actually pretty much a admittence to truth... As it is now confirmed there will be blood elf paladins, and draenei shamans...Baggins 19:09, 21 July 2006 (EDT)


 * What I really want to know is, can the Draenei still be Paladins? It would seem odd that they could be Paladins and Shamans, but there isn't really a way they can't be paladins.--Ragestorm 07:15, 26 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Aye, at this time, they can still be paladins as well.. --Maenos 15:51, 27 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I can't stop laughting about people on forums, crying that it destroys lore. What about alliance warlocks? Tauren druids? Undead priests? Hell, even gnome warriors?! Draenei shamans and Blood Elves are fine... And now, as shaman and paladin is nothing more then any other class, there is no reason why Draenei couldn't have both. --Nea 06:46, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Agreed. Anyway, Blizzard thoughtfully provided a lore explaination for both of them, explainations which work for both sides (though this definetly pushes the Blood Elves to a more "evil" category). They even created two new characters to do it. --Ragestorm 06:55, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

I'll just say one thing : told ya (-; --Kirochi 07:58, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Nea, why exactly are Alliance warlocks more likely than Horde warlocks? Those things you mentioned aren't changing something they've already said - its just adding something new, that doesn't contradict previous lore. And why shouldn't there be UD priests? Priests have a whole shadow talent tree, so it really does make sense.Saimdusan (talk) 07:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ehm, this discussion ended more than two years ago. 08:15, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Draenei are hypocrites
''Lengthy section moved to Talk: Draenei/Lore, to conserve space on this page. All "combatants" in the discussion may continue at their leisure on the new page.''

The Eredar are such a polyvalent race
Let's pay a look to the different kinds of Eredar :
 * Draenei : Big fat warriors and paladins, priests, mages, beefy hunters and no rogues, Holy Light faith
 * Broken : Natural ability for stealth, rogues, shamans, quick hunters, maybe some kind of nature magic, shamanistic faith
 * Lost Ones : dumbass-looking warlocks, remnants of rogue and hunter culture, crippled warriors and such, no faith or maybe affiliation with demons.
 * Eredar warlocks : Huge pieces of meat wielding shadow magic, maybe also remnants of arcane magic (the two being quite close, see Medivh and Kel'Thuzad), demonic faith.

If the Broken don't have absolutely no way nature magic, then we could say that the Eredar lineage is the most complete race ever.--Kirochi 04:15, 21 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Cripes, someone else saying that draenei look fat? How the heck do you figure that? (Although I will agree that Lost Ones are dumb-looking.) —Qit el-Remel 02:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The "Uglyness"?
To me, these Draenei don't look like an Ugly race. They look prettymuch like a Beuty race. Infact, they look like bigger, bluer, and taller Night Elves.

Ya they are not really an ugly race.Baggins 15:05, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * ... Guys this is so much a subjective question ... What if I tell you that I find Dwarves very pretty and I hate Night Elves because of their stupid appearance ...--Kirochi 15:24, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

...Dwarves aren't ugly. They are short sure, but they have noble appearances, imo, well if you find Night Elves ugly well fine, to each their own. ;).Baggins 15:28, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * [Mode Asshole on] Dwarves are much more beautiful than the f***y Elves. And that's all.
 * No, seriously, this depends on everyone.--Kirochi 15:31, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I like dwarves better than Night Elves too. :) Dwarves are much cooler, and have more interesting appearance imoBaggins 15:42, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * As you say, to each his own. Personally, I can't see the fuss about the Dwarves. I mean, yes, they are the best race in terms of personality (I've Scots and Irish relatives, so the humor isn't lost on me), but im my book, no-one looks cooler than the Night Elves. Draenei and HM Alextrasza excepted.;-P --Ragestorm 17:53, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I think its cause i'm a traditionalist, Dwarves are one of my favorite races in other fantasies. But I still think NE look cool, so do the Draenei.Baggins 19:37, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I personally think the male draenei are ugly as hell, with their little tentacles on their chin (who else things that the tentacles on the chin is going to create a series of jokes having to do with other things that SOUND like "tentacle" on the chin?), and their weird head, and lack of normal hair. but then, i always thought the night elf males looked too "sissy" in wow, as well, and hate them. in war 3 they were cool, however.
 * I wanted SO badly for the alliance to get Broken draenei, as i always thought they were incredibly cool, but not too many would roll them, as most find them extremely ugly. --Haddon 03:07, 26 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, whatever your tastes, it's not gonna stop people- despite making Orc and Troll males incredibly ugly in WoW, loads of people still play as them, and loads of people play as Night Elves or will as Draenei. --Ragestorm 07:19, 26 July 2006 (EDT)

My opinion is subjective (like it could be objective anyway), since I'm going to roll draenei warrior on the day one of expansion in europe (or whenever later I get the box :<), but I hardly find them ugly. Tail and hooves? Well, Succubus have that and it turns me on ;). Tetacles and forehead makes them mean-looking, combined with thier size it gives them that "you don't want to make me angry" aura. Call me a fanboy, I care :p. --Nea 08:16, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

You know, I have only one thing to say about the Draenei... ... "En Taro Adun." Seriously. The last, most difficult instance of BC will involve ramming a carrier into someone. Piroko 10:48, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Protoss skin is far more mottled, and note the absence of mouths. Seriously, what was wrong with ramming a carrier into the 2nd-greatest evil the galaxy had ever seen? En Taro Tassadar!--Ragestorm 16:06, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * You gotta admit, it'd be pretty sick, commandeering a huge ship and ramming it into the final boss to kill it in WoW. Pzychotix 23:24, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * First of all, I think "twisted" is the word you're looking for. Second, heed these three words: Not gonna happen. Mind you, if the ship were Teldrassil and the boss was Sargeras, that could be an ending for the franchise. But again, not gonna happen.--Ragestorm 08:15, 2 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Nah, the word I was looking was "sick" -> "wicked" -> "ridiculously AWESOME". :D Pzychotix 06:32, 3 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Here's the WoW Ending, right here, just sub in a Draenei face... Piroko 10:07, 10 August 2006 (EDT)

http://www.chocobo.org/~Striton/starcrft/pics/tassad1.jpg http://www.chocobo.org/~Striton/starcrft/pics/tassad2.jpg http://www.chocobo.org/~Striton/starcrft/pics/thehive.jpg

Last time I checked protoss didn't have tails, hooves, mouth, tentacles etc. But OMFG, they are BLUE, you understand that! BLUE! That can't be coincidence! And those legs, ARGH! Seriously, if they made satyrs blue, would they remind u of protoss too? --Nea 04:55, 11 August 2006 (EDT)


 * OF CORSE! :D Pzychotix 08:04, 11 August 2006 (EDT)


 * ...... They do have tentacles, except for the Dark Templar who ritualistically mutilated them to cut their psychic link to the community. Piroko 10:46, 11 August 2006 (EDT)


 * My bad, I'm not such a starcraft fan, didn't notice it, Draenei tentacles are rather hard not to notice (at least on male characters), they remind me more of cthulhu then protoss. --Nea 18:51, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Your Friendly Demon Example: The Ancient Dreanai
The info that Draenei are Demons; Demons are creatures from a different world that look entirely like alians. Draenei donnot come from Dreanor, but from Argus. There leader, Velen, is still unknown, but I speculate that it might look like a Shorter, more kinder version of Archimonde, and without the demonic powers. Though the Draenei are not demonic (Not this kind anyways), they certainly can't deny that they have the capabilities of demons. The Image also looks like demonry: Imps have no pupils, appearantly nether do these Draenai, apperently; Imps have an odd head, so do Draenai for they have overlaping skull shields or whatever they are, glowing sigils, and for the females, longer then Night Elf ears; Imps have horns, Draenai have tenticles on there chins; Imps are from a different planet,and I just said there from Argus so do I need to say it again? There, you had your explenation of Draenais being non-evil demons. Now, all these facts evident that the Draenai are Demons, do you believe me? -Quinn


 * Please sign your posts... I would like to point out just because Draenei are from another planet doesn't mean they are demons. Humans are from another planet other than draenor and are not demons. Naaru come from another planet or plane of existence than Draenor, and are not demons... Trolls have three fingers, and 2 toed feet, and come from another planet other than Draenor and are not Demons. Tauren have horns and hooves and come from another planet other than Draenor and are not Demons. Granted we need to know more information about the new versions of Draenei Eredar. But just because they look Demonic doesn't mean they are demons.Baggins 19:10, 5 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Non-evil demons is contradictory. The sole definition of a demon is that it is evil. Just because they look similar to other demons (which I don't find them looking like in the least), means nothing. I could have the face of the average pedo (big honkin sunglasses, pedo mustache) means nothing about what my intentions are. Pzychotix 01:58, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Actually there are such things known as "good demons" in mythology. The term demon does not denote something as being good or bad. To the greeks, Daemon, means something along the lines of "genius and intelligence" and was used to denote things both good and bad. Eudemons were one such "benevolent demon". They were considered minor dieties not necessarily good or evil. But evil is generally the first thing people think of when they hear about demons in this day and age, as that is the common perception. It is similar to how Angels tend to be viewed as being good, when in mythology there were both good and evil angels. But that is according to earth mythology not the warcraft universe, in the warcraft universe all demons are evil....Baggins 03:23, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Would you consider the Good Draenei of the Swamps of Sarrows Demons? Or how about there corrupt ones, huh? -Quinn


 * Simply put, the answer should be obvious to you now. We've told you our stance on what determines a demon multiple times. Obviously, these good draenei (which according to the Swamp of Sorrows page says they've actually gone mad) are hardly demonic, since they're not malicious and harbor no evil intent that we're aware of. If they attack you, it's because they've gone mad, and you could hardly say that a mad man is demonic.


 * The corrupted eredar have long been established as demonic. That's old news. THEY are the evil ones, and ARE demonic. The new draenei are NOT. I suggest you hit up the Demons page. Honestly. Right now, you're doing nothing more than pointing the finger at draenei, and shouting "Demon!", when they are not the case, and you have done little to prove so. Pzychotix 23:03, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Is Illidan a demon? Pretty much. Is he a night elf? Pretty much. Are night elves demons? Eredar affected by Sargeras' corruption became demons, while uncorrupted draenei are just an ordinary race... well... maybe not so ordinary, but you get the point. --Nea 04:44, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Eredar or Draenai?
((Note: This is my last one here.))

If Draenai (These ones) are Eredar, then wouldn't they make them Eredar still and not Draenai? I know they changed there name, and I know "Draenai" means "The Exiled Ones" in Eredar, but wouldn't they really be Eredar? Why not just call it "Eredar", because the "Draenai" from Warcraft 3 look like Draenai and the Draenai from WoW looks like "Eredar". So why not call them "Eredar"? Quinn' Tonstern


 * So we should start calling the blood elves high elves by that reasoning. See my point? The 'draenei' is Warcraft 3 weren't 'original' draenei, and this was known at the time. -- Kirkburn 19:40, 15 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Your missing the point, Kirkburn. Blood Elves are High Elves that have converged into an entirely different race, note that High Elves are like green and Blood Elves are of a Human skin (P.S. It should've been High Elves at Elwayn Woods instead of Gnomes at Khas Modan), but playable Draenai are the starting race, and the Demonic Eradar are after them, so, why not call the fake Eradar Draenai, cause there pretty much "exiled" and why not call the Real Eradar Eradar? + Calling a Blood Elf a High Elf is like calling a Naga a High Elf.


 * I'm not entirely certain I follow your point, but the division between the groups of elves and eredar are somewhat similar. A blood elf is merely a high elf that has embraced demonic energies, the division having occurred within the last few years.  The draenei split from the rest of the eredar twenty-five thousand years ago, the former group embracing the Light and the latter being transformed into demons.--Aeleas 18:24, 17 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Logically it makes more sense to call minority exiled, and uncorrupted eredar were minority.--Nea 08:04, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

The Eredar, as we know, started on Argus, with Kil', Archimonde, and Velen. 2/3 of the race, roughly, became demons. the draenei, who were the exiled, eventually found and lived on draenor. over time, due to a few things, the broken and lost ones warped. before ner'zhul made draenor go boom, they may have ALL looked like the draenei we are gonna play. it may have been the breaking of the world, and being lost and mad that made them all ugly. its also why the lost ones are small and ugly, the broken look more draenei-esque, as they are not insane, only demonic now.

i would still love to have seen a 3rd faction of broken, blood elves, naga, and something else. --Haddon 17:39, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

Orcs' corruption
In a way the draenei are responsible for the orcs corruption. Kil'jaden found the orc's homeworld because he heard the word Draenor given to it by the Draenei which he recognized as Eredun. The draenei didn't warn the orcs about the burning legion either,prefering to keep to themselves. Zarnks 04:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, Draenor was found by accident when Talgath was investigating signs of magic . Admittedly, there's a slim chance that Talgath wouldn't have investigated the world if the draenei hadn't been there, but other magic-users there could easily have drawn him. As for "preferring to keep it to themselves," I can picture it now: Ner'zhul, at any moment, your world could come under assault from an unstoppable demonic army led by a group of warlocks who look like us, only redder. Don't worry, though, because the chances of them coming here are actually pretty slim, so just be on the lookout. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:42, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That would be funny.-- 15:29, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

It said in Rise of the horde that Kil'jaeden decided to investigate the planet after he heard the name Draenor. Kil'jaeden wouldn't have even visited there if he hadn't recognized the name as his language. The Draenei are definetly a huge reason if not the main reason for why the eredar came to Azeroth. They had a major reason to warn the orcs,the burning Legion had been chasing them for millennia,and destroyed many planet already. To not tell the orcs a thing is just foolish and pratically a deathwish. What made them think that the burning legion wouldn't come to Draenor after they had followed them to many other worlds. Zarnks 17:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Read RotH again. That isnt why he investigated, as I told you (with citation) above. What exactly is it you're trying to prove? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm almost absolutely sure it said that he investiagated it because he knew the name was of his language. It says so on Kil'jaeden's page as well. Zarnks 21:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've given you the page in the book where they talk about it, they didn't find the name until they already knew the draenei were there- I know Kil'jaeden's page is wrong, I'll change that presently.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

You have to admit that the Draenei could have easily warned the orcs. What made them think that they would come to draenor after they had chased to dozens of other planets for millennia. It was the draenei magic that drew them to draenor. They can't put all the blame on the orcs. Zarnks 21:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And again, what do you suppose would've happened? "Hay gaiz, deez baddies are bad, mmkay?" "Sure lawl. OOH SHINY POWERS! MUST HAVE! *gets corrupted anyways*" —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 23:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Coulda shoulda. It's easy to judge others in hindsight. The draenei hoped to live on Draenor and befriend the orcs, and telling the orcs that their planet might possibly be destroyed by the draenei's long-standing enemies isn't exactly a great way to start off relations. They hoped the Burning Legion had lost their trail, and that their presence on Draenor would go unnoticed. I can easily see anyone clinging to hope and making such a decision. Don't judge others until you try their pants on for yourself. -- 23:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to point out that just because draenei magic leaves a recognizable signature, it doesn't mean that it "drew" Talgath to the planet; saying that the Legion was drawn there implies that they homed in on them, which isn't actually what happened. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Draenei lived on Draenor for a long time. "Velen and his mystics kept their magics hidden for generations." That sure is a long time to withold lifesaving information. If the draenei had warned the orcs about Kil'jaden who was after them,Nerz'hul(who at that time,was a decent fellow) certainly wouldn't have worked with burning Legion if he had been told what they really were. They wouldn't have gone to Draenor if they hadn't detected signs of the draenei magic or recognized its Eredun name. Its undeniable that the draenei indirectly played a part in corrupting the orcs and dooming their homeworld. Zarnks 02:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Remember that the arrakoa were also messing with the arcane as well, they could have just as easily drawn the legion to the draenor themselves.Baggins 03:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

No it specifies "Draenei magic" and they recognized the name draenor. Orcs are constantly being blamed by the draenei even though they called accidently brought the burning legion to Draenor. Zarnks 03:21, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Arcane magic is arcane magic. The concept of "draenei magic" is odd. Although archimonde claimed that all magic on Azeroth was eredar and burning legion magic just before he destroyed Dalaran :p...Baggins 03:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently only worlds where the draenei had lived at, contained "Draenei magic". It wasn't the arrakoa. Zarnks 03:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Draenei didn't live on azeroth, and yet it was the magic practice on Azeroth that brought man'ari eredar there. They even claimed it was their own magic... Sorry I'm hardly convinced... The race seems to always claim anything arcane is their own magic, or their cousins... They seem to be drawn to any world that practices magic.Baggins 03:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

"tumbled upon a world that showed signs of the draenei's magic. Though they initially assumed it was just another one of the planets the draenei briefly stopped upon, further investigations quickly discovered that the draenei had actually settled there, even go ing so far as to give it an Eredun name, Draenor." Only the draenei have "draenei magic". There are plently of arcane using races they specify the Draenei magic not arcane. It was the draenei that accidently doomed Draenor. Zarnks 03:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * ...and eredar have called Azeroth's magic their own magic, yet people of Azeroth had practiced centuries before - "From this seal shall arise the doom of men, who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own. Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit. Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."" I really don't trust anything that the eredar believe, its only their point of view, and not necessarily credible.


 * Although in this case "draenei magic" is likely referring to the strange magic tought to them by the naaru, the divine magic of the holy light, which was unique in comparsion to the old arcane ways of the eredar. This is something brought up on the TBC page for the draenei, btw. "Meanwhile, the enigmatic naaru race blessed the draenei with Light-given knowledge and power. The naaru explained that there were other forces in the cosmos that would stand against the Burning Legion. One day the naaru would forge them into a single unstoppable army of the Light. Deeply affected by the naaru's words, the draenei vowed to honor the Light and uphold the naaru's altruistic ideals." Baggins 03:38, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Obviously the draenei weild some special kind of magic most likely different from the demonic eredar's. I just don't like how the Draenei lump all the blame on the orcs,they were victims too. Zarnks 03:46, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * We have to explore the possibility that the Burning Legion would have come across the world anyways, Draenei or no. The Burning Legion's mission is to basically consume everything there is. Do you expect that they would've seen the planet, and ignored it, simply because it did not contain the Draenei? —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 07:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

The Burning legion found draenor by tracing the draenei magic. Draenor would have survived a much longer time without the draenei. Not saying draenei are evil, but they accidentally lured an evil force to the Draenor. Zarnks 07:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And the time taken for the orcs to be found would've changed what? Sure the Draenei might've sped up the process, but eventually they would've been screwed anyways. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 10:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The dreanei blame the orcs of massacring them AND NOTHING ELSE. They don't lump any blame on the orcs except for that. They don't blame them for summoning the Legion, or dooming the planet (though they blame Ner'zhul specifically for ripping the planet apart), they just blame them for destroying draenei cities and ripping draenei to shreds (literally). Pzychotix is right- it's likely that the Legion consumed most worlds they investigated if they made good targets, and would likely have found Draenor eventually, even if Velen had joined them at the beginning. And again, they weren't "tracing" draenei magic, nor were they "drawn" to it- they just knew what it looked like when they found it. As for the Arakkoa, Baggins's point was that their use of arcane magic would have lured the Legion their in the same way that the Highbourne's lured them to Azeroth. And as for getting mad at the draenei for speeding the inevitable- for all you know, the Legion could have invaded the planet only a few years later, or even at the same time. Finally, whatever the draenei's reasons for not telling the orcs there are a number of innocent reasons: they didn't think it would do any good, they thought the orcs wouldn't believe them, maybe they had a superiority complex or perhaps they though they were finally safe and could put it behind them. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't murder only speed up death? That doesn't stop it from being wrong. The Arakkoa to my knowlegde weren't abusing the arcane like Azshara. Most people seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the draenei just decided to lure the burning legion on purpose just to be mean. Velen seemed decent enough. It still doesn't stop that it was irresponsible to not warn the orcs and think about the consequences settling on the planet would have. "They don't lump any blame on the orcs except for that." I've noticed many draenei express a desire for revenge against the orcs. Have they forgotten that they lured the legion and didn't warn the orcs and the orcs were manipulated and brainwashed by the Burning Legion. Most orcs are shown as deeply regretful for their actions. There isn't anything to take revenge on them for,they lost their planet,most of them were mutated by arcane,and they are constantly unjustly villainized by the people of Azeroth. Note that there are bad Draenei, an interograter in Telaar orders a blood elf prisoner beaten.

I'm going to add a footnote of this to the article under speculation. Zarnks 04:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure what you mean by going on that off-shoot there. Seeing the Draenei act the way they do towards Orcs after the event we're talking about is quite irrelevant. So is pointing out that there are bad Draenei (everybody has bad eggs, Draenei aren't an exception). And please don't go over the rest of the people in this discussion and add it into the article when we haven't even come to a consensus. If that's what you're going to do, then why even bother discussing it?


 * As for Draenei indirectly causing the Burning Legion to corrupt the orcs:
 * http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter3.html#21 It says nothing about being "drawn" to the planet like you've said in the past. Also, neither of these societies were involved in such a social exchange that would even provoke them to discuss a matter such as this. Not to mention, you seem to ignore the possibility of the orcs being corrupted anyways, regardless of whether or not the Draenei warned them. At this point in time, you're not really presenting much in terms of evidence to back this piece of speculation, and that's really not enough to put onto a main page such as this. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 05:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Rise of the horde which is canon and aproved by Metzen says they decided to investiage after they found the draenei magic on the planet and heard its Eredun name. The official site doesn't goes as indepth as the novel. Most of the specualtion is pretty ridiculous(Teron leading the black riders) why can't this stay? I'm not putting it down as fact in the article just as speculation. Zarnks 06:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For starters, RotH doesn't say that they investigated because of the Eredun name, that happened after Talgath has already faound them. This can't stay because
 * 1) it is completely irrelevant. Teron leading the Black Riders and some of the other speculation sections are relevent lore questions, with arguable degrees of importance.
 * 2) the information that the Legion eventually found the draenei is already in the article.
 * 3) this isn't speculation, it's you trying to say that the draenei needs to be blamed for the whole sequence of events because "they could have warned the orcs."
 * -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Teron can certainly not lead the black riders. He was sealed up and working with Illidan. "'RotH doesn't say that they investigated because of the Eredun name', that happened after Talgath has already faound them. They decided to investigate after they found signs draenei magic and the eredun name. Yup that certainly speed up Draenor's doom.

In my opinion many draenei show signs of intolerance and grouping all of one race together. one of the best examples is the Aldor This is ironic considering their origins. Zarnks 05:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've told you a dozen times and gave you a citation: TALGATH INVESTIGATED DRAENOR BECAUSE HE FOUND TRACES OF THEIR MAGIC, HE DID NOT KNOW THE NAME UNTIL AFTER HE'D ALREADY FOUND THEM!!!!!
 * You bet it's ironic, that why it's there in the first place, a bit of dramatic irony which has little actual importance. I don't suppose it's even occured to you that what you're seeing is just in-game justification of the Alliance vs. Horde dichotomy?
 * This has gone on far enough, so here it is: discuss all you want (though it wil do little good), but if you edit the page again with this, you will be banned. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thats what I said. I'm just tired of many Draenei vilifying the orcs,forgetting all the suffering they put the orcs through by withholding lifesaving information. Zarnks 22:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Given that you seem incapable of coming to your senses, I refer you to my threat above. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

You know that the legion would have corrupted the orcs anyway. They got impressed by the orcs powers during War of The Ancients. (Keilden 12:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Rise of the Horde disagrees with you. They originally only came to the planet to kill the draenei,later releasing that the orcs could be a powerful weapon against Azeroth. Zarnks 05:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty much a given that it was the draenei that drew the Legion to Draenor; Talgath states "I have sensed their peculiar branch of magic tainting the area." I can't disagree with that. Still, I find the notion that the draenei made a mistake withholding the information laughable; "BTW, orcs of Draenor, we just want to let you know that we come from another planet and are fleeing from an army of demons that want us to burn in hellfire. Nevermind the fact that we can't prove any of this, that we could bring doom to your world and our ship is useless."

Besides, when could they have told them? It's implied that at the time of their arrival 500 years ago, the orcs were...well, it's not explicitly stated but perhaps not in the most developed state considering that in the 500 years, they "impressed" the draenei. It's probable that Velen was going to tell them about the Legion anyway, the initial orc attacks speeding up the process.

As for WoTA, the storyline presents an altered timeline rather than a case of pre-destination paradox. Broxigar catching Archimonde's attention is a nice touch, but considering that Archimonde barely features in RoTH, it doesn't seem to have come to anything.Hawki 06:32, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Well the humans heeded the high elves warning of the Burning legion why not the orcs. Anyway We must as well close this topic. Zarnks 06:52, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The difference between the humans and orcs in that regard is that while the orcs were completely in the dark as far as demons were concerned, humans (technically the Kirin Tor) were being threatened by demons and turned to the high elves for help. I doubt that high elves would have simply told humanity out of hand considering that knowledge of the Legion was only given to the Order of Tirisfal and perhaps a few members of the Kirin Tor.Hawki 07:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, this is completely off topic, but can I just say I've enjoyed this discussion immensly. It's a great window into the world of Warcraft fandom, and shows just how much we all care about our own favourite universe.

Anyway, I'm more inclined to agree that it's pretty laughable of the Draenei to have warned the Orcs. The Orcs probably had no concept of demons, so chances are they would have laughed off the Draenei's warnings as fanatical preaching. And this is coming from someone who's always standing up for the Orcs! :)

Regards Warchiefthrall 23:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The Draenei couldn't have warned the Orcs, they barely ever interacted. Lckyluke372 17:17, October 12 2007


 * And yet they taught Durotan their language and interacted pretty well just prior to killing each other. --Invin Dranoel 16:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Culture
It may be a few stretches, but I think Draenei culture may be based on Islamic (non-extremist), primarily in India. Why? Islamic due to the way they worship the light. They take a more devout path then the Azeroth races. Also think of the names, A'dal, Allah.... I mean it doesn't take much to find a connection their. And India, now I can't account for the accent, but Shattrath is located in the middle of the Terokkar forest, which looks in a way like a jungle in India. Also Elekk, which is clearly and bluntly based on an elephant, which is of cultural significance in India. Also I guess Shamanism can be compared to Hindu, but because it has been just added to their culture it is hard to make that comparison at this point. It's hard to say how different Draenei practice is from other races. Also gems are pretty common in India if I remember correctly. Also due to their exodus I think they can also draw some middle eastern history but I'm not going to make that claim at this moment.

I am no expert on Indian culture. But I hope I didn't mess anything up to the point of where this can just be thrown out.

--Rannulf 17:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The accent, as I have stated, sounds somewhere between Eastern European and Mediterranean to me, but others have said "Hollywood Gypsy." (Rom nomads are sometimes speculated to have originated in India.)  And also, the male /dance animation is blatantly Middle Eastern or Southeast Asian (bhangra), while the female /dance animation looks like belly-dancing (also Middle Eastern or Southeast Asian).  So...yeah, I can see that.


 * By the way, thank you for clarifying that not all Muslims are extremists. I happen to know a few Muslims (including an imam) and none of them are fanatical (or even preachy).  But it is a distressingly common stereotype.  20:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm aware, but just said that to prevent anyone from talking about the extremes of some Muslims. So ya know, just wanted to throw that out there.  I also think if you base Draenei being more completely based on Muslim culture the fel orcs and the legion could be Christians in their eyes.  Probably thinking a little too hard into it, actually I know I am.  To prevent any culture war to happen I'm going to go ahead and say that is PURELY speculation.  Not stating any facts, not trying to insult.  Just an idea.  --Rannulf 21:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I can see some of what you're talking about- not really sure about the India connection, but I definetly agree with the Islamic one- the architecture of the Exodar and Tempest Keep also reflects this. This is a non-editorial discussion, so we should continue this elsewhere. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 05:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Names
Wondering why the regular, uncorrupted Draenei all have Greek or Arabic-sounding names such as Ishanah and Menelaous, but the Broken all have Japanese-sounding names like Akama and Nobundo. --Julzwinfield 10:10 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No idea. The naming isn't limited to Draenei, Eredar as a whole are the same way- Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Velen, Sironas, Talgath, none of these follow any particular naming convention. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 05:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't know, either. However, most of my draenei characters have names that are either Greek-inspired (such as Lolotea) or Sanskrit-inspired (such as Hariiti).  I blame searching WoWWiki for draenei NPCs before I purchased TBC.


 * There's also the matter of unusual double vowels (as seen in names such as Taluun and Palanaar). 19:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's also seen in occasionally in Darnassian place names, I believe. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:18, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Seems to be mostly the doubled "a" in Darnassian, tho. It's as likely to be a "u" or an "i" that's doubled with Draenic names.  09:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Double vowels are also used in some Taur-ahe names, like Hamuul, Loorana, and Krulmoo. They are not super-common, however. --Nuti (talk) 04:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Doubled e's and o's, however, are fairly common. I was referring specifically to doubled a's (Jadaar), i's (Deremiis), and u's (Bahduum), which seem to be slightly more common in draenei names than in those of other races.  11:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure about Nobundo, but I know that Akama was created as a pun on "a kama" and so it is simply coincidence that it sounds Japanese.   19:44, 18 June 2008
 * "Kama" is itself a Japanese word (specifically, for those little axe/sickle weapons of his). 11:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

The nadme A'dal in the game are probably from a Icelandic name, found a source and will paste it in right here what it says: Aðal-  Very common as first part of a compound name, meaning "noble", "brilliant", "high born". draw your own suggestion about A'dal. ~Eredaros 00:23 26-08-2008 (+1GMT)

The speculations of the lifespan, the length of childhood etc. of draenei
There is no official data about the lifespan, the time of being pregnant, the length of childhood etc. of draenei, but does someone have any good ideas about it? I've picked couple of ideas speculated by me (the list will be expanded later):

1. According, at least draenei siblings Dornaa and Jheel has difference between their ages just couple of years. If 'couple of years' means for draenei same as our humans' 'couple of years' (about 2-4 years or something), the time of being pregnant can't be more than 4 years, and looks like that female draenei don't give birth to children for example every century.

2. According, 25,000 years is long time for even a draenei. 'What does Argus mean to you, ? Many draenei probably do not know or remember our home planet.'

3. Velen and Kil'jaeden were best friends, 'like brothers to each other'. Nowadays Velen is a very old-looking draenei and Kil'jaeden is maybe a middle-aged-looking demonic eredar. If we presume that they are about same-aged (notice 'like brothers' (!)) and dark powers make Kil'jaeden not to become older, can we think that 25,000 years is enough to turn a middle-aged draenei/eredar into a old one?

Any other ideas? --Nuti (talk) 18:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Only if you discount the fact that Velen holds considerably holy power. 25,000 could also turn a middle-aged eredar into a dead one. I think the "brothers" description is more of a personal than a descriptive one. Remarkably few brothers are the same age, you know. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but usually one brother is not usually teenager in the same time than the other is middle-aged, I meant. Well, I know that that description is not an exact one, but is a glimpse of one of few clue and that's why I seized on it. Well, if we presume that they have very much difference with their ages, someone would describe more like "they were like a son and a father" or "a grand-son and a grand-father". You see? --Nuti (talk) 04:03, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Blizz probably just didn't put much thought into it.


 * There was speculation on a not-too-work-safe WoW fan forum about draenic gestation. I stated that IRL, gestation usually has less to do with lifespan than with size.  Seeing as draenei are slightly larger than humans, my guess was "around ten months."  (Don't take my word on that; it's in no way canon.)


 * Also of note is the fact that according to Christie Golden, they follow the common long-lived-fantasy-race model by not being very fertile. (For speculation about that whole trope, please visit The Writerium.)


 * Dornaa comes off like a rather sweet, naïve, and typical little kid, asking people if "nether" is a dirty word and whether or not her cute little hooves will need reinforcement in the future. So, although her actual age is left up to speculation, it seems almost probable that she really is that young.  08:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Another part of the long-lived-fantasy thing is decades-long childhood, so they could be in their fifties. I think Lolotea is right though, there isn't really any connected lore, just a few educated guesses one can make. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The "extended childhood for long-lived races" idea is actually covered in the Writerium entry. (I encourage everyone to check out the Writerium site, by the way.  And no, I didn't write that article.)  08:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Groan... I'd like to read "Rise of the Horde", but I haven't found it in the library in our city! (I'm from the Northern Europe, not the USA). It's often said there is a lot of information about draenei in that book! Wanna read it, really! *puppy eyes*


 * Krhm, back to business. I've read in somewhere (in WoWWiki or European WoW forums) that RotH told that there are not very much draenei children, which may mean that the lenght of the childhood of draenei is not major part of their whole lifespan (humans' childhood is about 1/6 of the whole lifespan). I don't think that very few draenei have child(ren) and the others have not, it will mean the sure extinction of the race one day... o.O --Nuti (talk) 12:07, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's the direct quote from RotH. (Durotan asks the initial question, by the way):
 * "In our encampment you would find many children. Where are the draenei children?"


 * "We do not have many," Restalaan said. "Our people are very long-lived, and because of that we do not often have children." (Rise of the Horde, p.49.)


 * As to the survivability of a race that was immortal (or just very long-lived) but not very fertile, the Writerium has this to say:
 * A problem that fantasy writers have when faced with long-lived races is population control. A common method is low fertility and/or an extremely long maturity rate, but this would make it extremely difficult for the race to ever rebound if something went wrong. (Controlling Populations of Immortals, at the Writerium.)
 * Suggestions include that long-lived races may have pheromones or cultural laws regulating their fertility, or may just be less "hot-blooded" than humans.


 * As for the availability of RotH outside the U.S.: It can be ordered through Amazon.eu, but if you were to need it in a language other than English, you might be out of luck.  13:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * English as the language of the novel is not a problem for me :). Thanks for the information!


 * In my previous post I meant that if the childhood doesn't take very great amount of the whole lifespan of draenei, it must mean that there is not very many draenei children compared to adult ones. Of course what Restalaan said about draenei's eagerness to have children may do something, but also simply the length of the childhood may explain the amount of children. I hope you understood... --Nuti (talk) 17:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In other words, they may be long-lived but relatively quick-maturing. Gotcha.  (That theory is actually fairly popular in fanfic.)  And glad I could help about the book.  06:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that I meant :) May I ask yet some questions about RotH? (I'm an eager draenei fan that wants to know as lot as possible about draenei.) Anyway:
 * 1) Which language di orcs and draenei speak together for example in the scene you showed? Orcish (I presume this), Draenei, mixed language, something else?
 * 2) I've always thought that draenei doesn't understand all gesture that we humans understand (nodding, shaking head, showing mid-finger...). What does RotH say about this? What like gestures do draenei use or understand in the novel?
 * Oh, now this is going to offtopic... ^^' --Nuti (talk) 14:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Orcish, albeit with a heavy accent.
 * 2) Restalaan gives an affirmative nod on p. 41 (as do two of his subordinates when acknowledging an order) and again on p. 42. In-game, the male draenei /rude appears to be a thumb-bite; the female /rude is a hip-slap, a tail-wag, and a shooing gesture.
 * Hope that helps. 02:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thank you! Now I'm a little wiser than before :) --Nuti (talk) 11:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Clothing
I spotted someone's speculation about the architecture of draenei here, so why not to collect notices about the clothing of theirs (both clothing of common draenei and draenei with higher status)? There is some:


 * 1) Looks like that one of draenei's favorite pieces of clothing is loose, coat-like robe with T-shirt-like short sleeves or without sleeves. See: these pictures in WoWWiki and this official WoW TCG picture.
 * 2) I haven't seen any draenei to use trousers in any official picture...
 * 3) Golden ear rings, tentacle rings, tail rings, necklaces etc. bling-bling are favored within both males and females.
 * 4) Rich and important draenei add jewellery and colorful crystals also into their clothes. See pictures about Velen and draenei vindicator art. Crystals are also often used in their weapons.
 * 5) The piece of clothing that a draenei wears instead of trousers on their hips (I didn't find the actual word but I hope you understand) is usually quite long, below their knees. It's also so narrow that their knees and some thigh are often easily visible.
 * 6) Leg guards are quite often used, and, naturally, there are not shoes or boots among draenei.

Something else thoughts? --Nuti (talk) 17:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. I believe kaftan, zimarra, and duster are all acceptable terms for this garment. (I'd suggest "cassock," but that's usually a specifically ecclesiastical term.)


 * 2. The game is another matter. But you've gotta wonder how someone with a tail (especially one like the guys have) would handle pants.


 * 3. According to at least one fanfic writer, marriage/engagement tokens go on the tail and the barbels-or-whatever. However, it seems that this would make things socially uncomfortable for those unfortunate male draenei who lack "facial appendages."  (Not to mention making it difficult to tell who is attached and who isn't.)  Personally, I think it's more likely to have some other cultural (possibly religious?) significance, or just indicate that they like sparklies.


 * 4. Probably a matter of social rank, being able to afford it, and preference. As for the crystal weapons...maybe it's some particular mineral that's particularly suited to the purpose.  (At least one incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons featured such a substance.)


 * 5. I've seen some of those that I would call loincloths, others that I would call kilts.


 * 6. I believe the footwear would be called "buskins," but I'm not entirely certain.


 * Additionally, there's at least one official (TCG) image portraying a female draenei character wearing what appear to be horseshoes. Seeing as there only seems to be one such image, my guess is that those are the equivalent of steel-toed boots for the unguligrade set.  13:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Horseshoes...?! Hey, please try to put the picture here! I want see it too!
 * According what I read once in the European WoW forums, horseshoes or those like stuff may be used among draenei. Because their hard hooves, they can't walk very well on soft terrain, like on sand. Horseshoes would be a good idea to ease walking, at least they eases walking of horses. --Nuti (talk) 04:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * First, I'd need to find a copy of the TCG art book, then I'd need to Google the image and see if the complete version is online. Not entirely unfeasible, but might take a while.


 * On the one hand, they've got split hooves (although the guys' hooves still look very equine otherwise), which may mean that there's some degree of flexibility. On the other hand, they're bipeds with hooves (meaning less support).  20:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ...wait for second! Here is two draenei with "horseshoes". Look at their hooves carefully... see? There is a piece of evidence. --Nuti (talk) 04:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't you love it when stuff is hidden in plain sight? (Although it does look like that might be for decoration rather than reinforcement, seeing as it matches the sparklies.  I could be wrong, but I remember the "horseshoes" on the TCG character as being much more utilitarian-looking.)  12:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm loving it... :roll: Say what like card that TCG card was. A hero card? A quest card? I know a web page with database of the WoW TCG cards. --Nuti (talk) 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it was a hero card, specifically Anchorite Kalinna. However, it was the complete painting, as opposed to the image sample that actually made it onto the card.  (You can't see Anchorite Kalinna's hooves on the actual card, but the original painting was more complete.)


 * And as I said...I'd have to reference the book to be sure.  22:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)