Talk:Garona Halforcen/Archive

Halforcen?
Where does this name come from? The RPG? --Fandyllic 7:04 PM PDT 4 Apr 2006


 * The name comes from "The Last Guardian". Garona states to a roaming patrol of orcs that her name is Garona Halforcen.--DarkAngel ZERO 13:56, 5 April 2006 (EDT)


 * She actually just says "I am Garona Halforcen." It's possibly just a title which means "half-orc."

It's likely a catch-all name for half-orc offspring, or a nickname that became a surname in time, like Haehalfdanae (Half-Danish) from Beowulf. --Grid 16:02, 10 November 2006 (EST)
 * Actually the modern Halfdan/Halvdan/Halfdane/whatever is a first name. --Efreeti 14:27, 18 February 2007 (EST)


 * Since when is Beowulf modern? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:32, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Since Saurfang wasn't cool. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Half-Draenei?
Am I the only one that feels that we should remove the first mentioning of Garona as half-draenei on this page? It causes hell on the official forums with the people who don't have the attention to read beyond that and take Cay's word above all.
 * --Kakwakas 22:15, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * If they can't handle the truth. they are not worthy of the truth.. i say it stays.. I see no point in censorship just to satisfy some hissy youths on a forum CJ 03:19, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * I mean they take it for 100% fact that Garona is half-draenei. She may very well not be, according to Metzen. *points to the bottom of the article* --Kakwakas
 * The comment from Metzen was in relation to a question about if she would be reappearing in the game, not in reference to her race. Plus, she came through the Dark Portal before WC1 even started officially, so she can't possibly be human. Humaniod, yes, but not human. Hence why Draeni seem to be the only possible connection, unless there's some other race of humaniods on Draenor. --DarkAngel ZERO 10:51, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Be on the safe side, and leave it at Metzen's comments (being the Sumpreme Master of Story and Lore of Blizzard, it's all his domain), but make sure the theory is addressed, and hope to see her in Outland Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

Anyone have a screen shot of Garona from the Beta? I'd like to see that. --Darkfox190 01:02, 3 Mar 2006 (EST)
 * It was just a orc model with a full Wicked Leather set on. Nothing special. --DarkAngel ZERO 10:51, 29 March 2006 (EST)
 * She was actually in the retail version, as well, not just the beta. But she was removed a couple of patches in, and replaced with Myrokos Silentform. Her model in the retail was slightly altered from the one in the beta, but was still a regular orc model. --Nephalim 21 May 2006

Whoever posted the info say that Gorona is half Draenei, and born of rape of Draenei... Nothing has officially established this yet, as is stated in the start of the topic. Unless that info is from a verifiable source it has got to be removed(we do not know if she is half draenei or the product of rape or not). I put up a source needed warning to give people a chance to prove its from an official source, but if no one proves the reliablity of what that section says, it needs to be removed-Baggins 22:21, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

The half-draenei idea was proposed when they were still human-like beings on Draenor, not the "true" Eredar endowed with Light-blessed powers by the Naaru. You'll note that all images stem from her other half being near-human- no sign of the hooves, tails, whiskers, or any of the other key features of Draenei biology. If it stays, some sort of note should be put in, saying that there's no way to know. --Ragestorm 05:57, 12 May 2006 (EDT)


 * [[Image:Draenai.jpg|256px]]
 * Note that the Lost One appears to lack tentacles and a tail and both the Lost One and Broken have their hooves mutated to look more like feet.
 * [[Image:Draenei_female.jpg|128px]]
 * Note the fairly human proportions.
 * [[Image:Garona.jpg|128px]]
 * We don't know much about Garona's upbringing, but the tentacles and tail could have easily been cut off by herself or whoever raised her, either to protect her from persecution or out of disgust at her Draenai heritage. As for the horns and the hooves, the horns might've been small enough to file down and completely hide with her hair (assuming she inhereted horns at all) and the hooves could've been suppressed by her orc heritage or just hidden in her boots. If she didn't inherit the horns or hooves, lost her tentacles and tail when she was young and never saw a Draenai (or at least not a female Draenai), she would have no reason to suspect she was anything other than half-human. -- Gordon Ecker 17:21, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Remember that Garona was introduced long before the new lore changes surrounding Draenei. It may be that if and when Garona is re-introduced into the game, her appearance and lore may be retconned in order to fit the new lore. Certainly her appearance I'd wager.--Phoez 12:43, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

Here's some new info I found.

http://wow.warcry.com/news/view/65916-Unadulterated-Awesomeness

That website chronicles Jayne's BC beta adventures in Outland with screenshots. Around the middle he meets a half-orc half-draenei blademaster named Lantresor of the Blade. He's depicted in-game with an orc model. I don't know if it's a placeholder for not, but Turalyon's half-elf son is similarly shown as a blood elf model in-game, although his mother is a high elf. It could just be lazy modeling on the part of the devs, but I guess it's safe to assume that apparently you can get a very human looking - atleast from what we see of Garona in concept art - individuals from a half draenei half orc hybrid.

Garona's physical descriptions have always been very muddled. In Last Guardian she's clearly described with black nails, somewhat leathery skin, a jutting jaw and prominent fangs. In the art we see of her after the one picture we have from WarCraft I, she basically looks like a human female with green skin. But with all this conflicting information, I am dreading another massive trainwreck of lore, like what happened when Chris Metzen created the draenei without even going back to varify with existing storylines.

I don't think the horns or hooves are something that could be "filed". For all the mistakes they made making the draenei, one thing they are is impressively designed. Hooved two-legged creatures with inverted legs would have an EXTREMELY hard time balancing themselves without a tail. Draenei horns also seem to be a natural extension of flesh, or atleast covered in skin somehow.

Also, anything the CMs say regarding lore should be considered canon. Why? Because they work at Blizzard. Period. All the information they get is not something they create themselves - it's all things that the devs tell them to inform the community about.--Grid 12:37, 10 November 2006 (EST)


 * I didn't say anything about hooves being filed down. Draenei appear to have the same basic foot structure as a goat, in other words thick, hard toenails (the hooves), and a long, thick heel which can bend forwards or backwards, but generally points downwards. The Broken stand like Humans, so it's plausible than half-Orc, half-Draenei could stand on their entire feet rather than on the toes and balls of their feet like uncorrupted Draenei. Tentacles can be written off as recessive, as male Draenei can have anywhere from 0 to 6 tentacles. As for the head projections, if they're true horns then they can be filed, if they're living bony outgrowths like antlers then removal would probably be complicated and painful, if they're like tusks they would probably fall somewhere between the two extremes, however, after seeing the horns on male Draenei, I suspect they're part of the same structure as the forehead crest, which would suggest that they're roughly analagous to antlers or tusks and can't be filed, but I don't think the Shadow Council would have any moral qualms against painful surgical horn removal. Lantrasor's appearance supports the theory that Orc features are dominant over Draenei features, as the only Draenei feature he has is the blue-grey skin tone, although, like you said, he may be using placeholder graphics. Regardless, this is No-Prize territory. -- Gordon Ecker 05:02, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

I think that the horns are well horns and the forehead ridges are simply the same but less protruding. they merely share coloration with draenie skin (prehaps due to being exposed to the outside enviornment. yours trulyScorpx2 21:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)scorpx2

I dont get what the whole "half" thing is, if she was alive before the portal opened then that means that the half orc race is merely coincidentally similar to humans. Human desent is out of question, even if she lied about being born on draenor...lied to the only person she could ever count on as a friend...orcs an humans find each other disgusting...with the level of racisim back then, it would simply be impossible...If she were of draenei desent...well she has no resemblance to the barrel chested, face plated, pale skinned, hooved draenei...then again she is a girl and female draenei have NO resemblance to male draenei...which implies that blizz really screwed up. Besides...orcs disowned her for her similarity to humans, considering that most orcs of the time hated draenei just as much, they would have disowned her for being half draenei. The half draenei thing is also unlikely for she has no blue hue in skin...a lighter green but still no resemblance to blue. Plus orcs and draenei kept to themselves, it would take a rare exeption to make a half draenei.

My final opinion is that this whole section of lore got scrambeled, scrambeled up into a big, hearty meal of nonsense, a big excuse for lore. Blizz just twisted it left and right until everything got twisted, im confused and doubt that clear clarfication can be made...dont call me dumb...i took no part in the scrambling... Baldr 03:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

"The fact that I am of both Orc and Human lineage, combined with the skills and schooling I have acquired from my journeys, has elevated me to the position I now hold." is part of what Garona says in the page Destiny of the Orcish Hordes, but i too first recall reading about garona as half orc half draenei, but back then i think the draenei were not eredar. Either way, half human is cooler. (Sweatboy (talk) 02:52, 13 September 2008 (UTC))

First War Timeline
The chronology currently on this page says that Garona was commanded by Gul'dan to kill Llane some time after Medivh's death. Is there a source for this? It contradicts the notion that Gul'dan's coma was caused by Medivh's death. --Aeleas 18:46, 4 April 2006 (EDT)


 * It's hard to tell, really. Each incarnation of the Games and RPG guides keep switching around dates, places, ages, and other stuff. At the moment, I'd say Gul'Dan was probably well enough to give Garona the order to kill Llane.--DarkAngel ZERO 13:57, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Gul'dan would have been completely incapacitated; he himself recalls that the Necrolytes revived him after the deaths of Llane and Blackhand- Garona could have gotten the orders to execute from the Shadow Council or one of its other leaders (recall the Cho'gall, Nekros, and Teron Gorefiend all advanced well into their circles), not realizing she could save Llane without Gul'dan punishing her. My (not concrete) theory is the Garona wasn't really tortured by Doomhammer- she intentionally betrayed the Shadow Council for revenge. This would fit in with the cryptic comments that imply she is still alive. Ragestorm 18:55, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

The 'Assassination of Llane' timeline is hopelessly screwed up. According to the section, Garona's loyalties are confused because of a curse she received from Medivh when Medivh was killed. She then acts as an advisor to Llane, is picked up by orcs raiding Northshire Abbey, and then is ordered by Gul'dan to assassinate Llane. According to the section, she kills Llane and delivers the proof to Gul'dan, and then Gul'dan is caught inside Medivh's mind at the time of the wizard's death. i.e. Medivh dies twice - once just before that section starts, and once again at the end of that section. That needs to be cleaned up. My suggested chain of events - Garona is cursed by Medivh -> Garona is trusted by Llane and then murders him -> Garona is imprisoned by the humans in Northshire Abbey -> Ogrim Doomhammer rescues Garona from the Abbey -> Doomhammer finds out about the Shadow Council from Garona. Also worth noting is that according to Gul'dan (who wrote the orcish backstory in the Warcraft 2 manual), Garona caved much more easily than expected to Doomhammer's interrogation. That, coupled with her views expressed in 'The Last Guardian', leads me to argue that she certainly wasn't tortured "almost to death", and in fact probably wasn't tortured much at all. --Eumerin 20:19, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Last Guardian should be the accepted timeline by now- the lore dept. stands by what written in the novels. Any novels. So, let's stop reconciling, and just summarize that work. (with a note that Gul'dan's exact involvement is unclear)--Ragestorm 20:40, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * The problem is that iirc, 'The Last Guardian' doesn't detail the events of Llane's death. It only features Medivh's death, and Medivh/Sargeras casting a spell on her (which is presumeably what causes her to turn on Llane, who she seems to like).  So while I agree that it should probably take priority over anything else published about Garona, the only common point it has with this segment is Medivh's death.  I'll have to see if I can locate my copy of Last Guardian, and maybe see if I can find the text from the Warcraft 2 manual somewhere.  From what I recall, there's not much in the way of conflict between the two texts. --Eumerin 20:57, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Warcraft II timeline uses the original timeline from Warcraft 1, so it doesn't fit with the timeline established in "The Last Guardian" very well. I think Llane's death is listed in most recent published timeline in "Alliance Player's Guide, as I recall.


 * P.S. The problem with the so called "official timeline" is that it seems to change every single time Blizzard publishes a new version of it, in various official sources :p.Baggins 21:00, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Fine then. Here's what's going to happen. You're going to look at the Player's Guide. Eumerin, or whoever gets there first, will check The Last Guardian. At this point, all we need is when Medivh died. If the two agree it was before Llane's murder, we have a winner. If not, we'll try for the most recent timeline. And as I recall, the spell didn't addle Garona's brains, it just showed her the future, thereby establishing another temporal paradox.


 * Ok, in 4th year, "an half-orc assasin kills Llane". There is no refrence to medhiv's death however. I'll have to check in Horde Player's Guide I guess. But it doesn't have a straightforward timeline as apparently Horde doesn't write down timelines as the Alliance does, but history is more of an oral tradition, so they mostly give approximates to how much time passes between events.Baggins 22:04, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * In that case, I'm calling it for the Last Guardian redition where Medivh dies first, and assume that the Shadow Council gave the execution order. --Ragestorm 22:14, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Ok no firm dates, but the order from Orc's POV as chronicled by Brann, is that Medhiv dies, then Llane is killed. Of course form their POV, it was at the "same time". That is Lothar kills Medhiv, while Garona infiltrates Stormwind. Baggins 22:21, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Which the eyewitness account in the Last Guardian disproves. --Ragestorm 22:26, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Of course, unless the Warcraft III account was a retcon.Baggins 22:28, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * What the same account that shows them on the same tileset as the Black Morass and Stonetalon Peak? That was Lothar, we could presume that Garona and Khadgar were just over the rise.--Ragestorm 22:36, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Sure we can assume that but sometimes I don't think the lore writers are that "smart" ;). Considering the fact that Garona was soon captured by Doomhammer, not long after she killed Llane you'd think she would given the true account, when she was tortured into revealing the warlock's plans. Course I guess she was good at hiding some of the information ;).Baggins 22:41, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Ok Hord Player's Guide's account mentions that all three were there, Khadger, Lothar, and Garona, when Medhiv was slain. Then it says Gul'din was hit by a psychic backlash at the same time, causing his coma. Then it says at the same time "garona" went to Stormwind to slay Llane. So ya there is the order of events.Baggins 22:57, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Excellent.--Ragestorm 23:06, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Ya. Though I guess this means that Garona is super fast to be able to go from seeing Medhiv's death, to infiltration of Stormwind in such a short period of time. ;-D. Guess that's the power of a spymaster, :).Baggins 23:10, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Either that, or "same time" meant in the same year.--Ragestorm 23:20, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Maybe that, or maybe she used a hearthstone, ;-D.Baggins 23:21, 27 November 2006 (EST)


 * Or: we could end this and one of us update the article now. :-)--Ragestorm 23:27, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Peculiar Disapperances
It's a tad late, so the following paragraph may get slightly long-winded. I apoplogize in advance.

I'm starting to believe Mr. Metzen and the creative staff at Blizzard have no intention of re-introducing Garona into the games. Now, granted, they did say that She was supposed to be very importent to the story of RoC, but was axed near the end of development. I believe Garona's role was supposed to be the one held by Medivh in the actual game. ( Which makes more sense, seeing as Medivh was once possesed by Sargaras, he would know more about the burning legion.)

When World of Warcraft Beta rolls around, I think the Garona character was simply a tease to stir up the rumor mill. The same applies to the comment that she is half-dranei. Personally, I would like very much to see Garona again, and would hate to see them end the character off-screen and the public finding out about it with a comment from someone like, "Oh, yes, I recall hearing that villanous woman went and hung herself after she had slain our beloved king..."

Just a little add-on: If Garona was around Khadgar's true age during the events of the first war (about 17, i believe), What would her age be now? 43? --Zephead 23:47, 13 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Garona was 17 in Last Guardian, which was about 1 year before the start of warcraft 1, in the original timeline. 26 years later is wow, i believe. so 43 or 44, yes. meaning she would be one crazy good rogue by now!--Haddon 18:20, 12 October 2006 (EDT)


 * If she is half-draenei, that could mean she might live for centuries. regardless, 44 wouldn't impact her fighting skills at all. --Ragestorm 19:03, 12 October 2006 (EDT)


 * on the contrary. 44 would impact her fighting skills GREATLY. a 17 year old is just new to it, or fairly new to it. 26 years later, and after being tortured and apparently in hiding for a long time, she would have become absolutely astounding at it. you do anything for 25+years, youre gonna be a lot better at it than you were before--Haddon 00:04, 13 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I meant that it wouldn't impair her skills at all. --Ragestorm 09:33, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Half any-other-race-than-Draenei?
Now that we know there are more humanoids on Draenor, this opens up the possibility that Garona might be something other than half-Draenei. My bet's on part Shivan.


 * Sign your posts. Can't be Shivan, there'd be a major biology retcon.--Ragestorm 19:54, 24 September 2006 (EDT)


 * She originally was half-human, and in the original timeline, she had enough time to grow to a young woman before the first game (note that the first game isnt the start of the first war, its when it reached a turning point from skirmishes into a real war). medivh in last guardian says "she is half orc, half human. or human-like creature from her homeworld". and to my knowledge, past her retcon, its never been said any 1 way or the other.
 * One theory of mine in the warcraft movie will be about the events leading up to war3 after war2, and will have her in it--Haddon 23:47, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

From your keys to Metzen's pen. ;-) --Ragestorm 11:31, 25 September 2006 (EDT)


 * Read the article, it gives the correct time from the warcraft1 manual. she had enough time to become a young woman if born on azeroth right away. it was roughly 15 years later that she killed llane, so it works. however, it was then retconned down to 1 year, as it says. To the best of my knowledge (and searching), metzen has never said what she is, only that he has agreed to the information in Last Guardian, where it states shes half human of human-like from her homeworld. everything written in the novels is checked over by him.--Haddon 13:27, 25 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I meant your idea bout the movie. --Ragestorm 15:12, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, I really do gotta get into the habit of signing my posts. Anyway- Metzen has provided evidence to help cover up plot holes created by retcons (Eredar and Sargeras relation, anyone?), but seemingly not Garona. Wonder why. Omacron 05:28, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Chris has said "youll just have to wait and see", just as he did with khadgar and alleria and the rest. chances are, he will be putting her in either in this expansion, a patch, or the next expansion. i doubt he would just leave one of his obviously loved characters(hed planned on putting her as a main character for RoC) to never be heard from again--Haddon 18:20, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Let's organise this:

Before the portal opened there were 3 humanoid races on Draenor: Orcs, Draenei and Ogres. Now we know that Garona is half-orc, guess she got that name because they know one parent is orcish, not because we know the other one is human.

Now the other parent could have been Draenei, if you look at this page and see the female Draenei, it clearly shows that not all Draenei have broad shoulders (and all other features...) She probably isn't the child of one of the broken/lost ones/etc. because those species were created when Ner'zhul tore the planet apart, which is what, about 20 years later?

So she could be Ogres. We haven't seen ogres in a long time and suddenly these Mok'nathal appear in the game (Rexxar, Mok'nathal village etc.) To me it shows that Blizzard is at least interested in this race. We know that breds of these two races are possible, and that there are individuals with varying skin colour. Why not green skin? Gained by the orc ancestor...(hell we have blue ogres too...). Now you might say that ogres are far too big and broad, but we have never seen an ogre female, so we wouldn't know what features she could give to her children, mixed with a mildly big orc male...garona could very well be a Mok'Nathal in my opinion. This would mean a nice plot change on Rexxar's "I'm the last of the Mok'nathal"

Still, the only other humanoid races we know of come from Azeroth, and as far as we know no one has had contact with the orcs (nor ogres/draenei) before the portal opened. Yet, (as suggested below) Medivh has had contact with them, and could very well have had a physical relationship with an orc, this would explain why Garona would be a major character in ROC (as suggeted below) she could have had the role of Medivh. Medivh, being dead (and revived) would pose some sort of a problem in the lore, which they did solve. Perhaps original plans would be for Garona to be his daughter, knowing all about the legion, who saves the races of Azeroth. This would also be an explaination why she was such "close" friends with Khadgar, Llane, etc. Also, this would explain why she killed Llane, it was one of the plots of Sargeras when he "created" her.

Furthermore, it could even have been a human/elf who timetraveled (as suggested below) my guess is that Khadgar has shown up and traveled back in time, to concieve her. However, I do not know much about timetravelling, so I'll stick to the other theories...

--HEMA 18:15, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

She may even be half-succubus. But that's just my theory.. --Xavius 17:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll say this much: - Garona should be worked back into the game; she seems quite the intriguing character. (Bad pun, no biscuit!) - It doesn't seem like her non-orcish ancestry was ever actually revealed (although both of the most common speculations have been categorically denied in literature and RPG material). - But if it's human, she clearly takes after the orcish side. It seems that she should be one of the light greenish-beige or dark greenish-brown hues (which are actually available character appearance options, by the way) rather than bright green. - And if it's draenei, she really takes after the orcish side (not a hoof, barbel, or even distinct bluish tinge to be seen). If characters are going to be such hybrids, they should at least have vestigial tails. And two-toed feet like Broken (or trolls), while we're at it. - If they were to make those latter hybrids playable, I'd be all over that (although one wonders which faction would get them). - One way or another, if she's re-introduced, I hope they change her model from the beta. - I've got similar complaints about Lantresor, but I've already aired them on his discussion page. —Qit el-Remel 03:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Still Human, maybe, maybe not? But definitely not half-draenei?
Oddly enough she's still half-human in Horde Player's guide, 2006, as the book again specifically points out that the definition of half-orc refers to human/orc hybrids. The book is even said to be "Designed with extensive input from the creative minds behind Blizzard’s best-selling Warcraft computer game series". Baggins 04:11, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Then she's just not a Half-Orc :P Saimdusan


 * Not only does it states that Garona was a half-orc, even further in the book it specifies that the offspring of a orc and draenei is a "Half-draenei", in order to specify things. curious.Baggins 04:30, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * Alright we get somewhere, later in the guide it specifically says she's is not a half-dranei, because none of her features match draenei, and that "early on people thought her "half-human" But since she was already a human at that time, it would seem impossible for an orc and a human could have produced her. But non of her features match any other known race but humans. But its Brann's POV(albeit with input from the creative minds behind the games)Baggins 05:04, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * While I admit I was greatly looking forward to seeing a half-orc/draenei modeled Garona in the expansion, there is one opportunity for Garona to be half-human: time travel. With all this stuff going on around Nozdormu and his flight at the Caverns of Time, it could easily be put into the story that Garona was born after the orcs and humans started mingling on Azeroth, and was sent back in time to before the opening of the dark portal in order to assassinate Llane or some such. Varghedin, 19:53 CET, Nov 17th 2006
 * I love hte idea of Time Travel and Caverns of Time. Hell even Alliance Player's guide has an article on a gnomish time machine invented by a gnome that got crystals out of the Caverns. Plenty of plot potential there. Additionally its possible that a humans sent back in time to draenor got stuck there but came in contact with an orc (rape or clandestine love or some such thing) and she was the product of such union, and later comes through the portal. On the other hand she has cryptic thourough knowledge of human culture as well, so the reverse is possible some orc goes back in time to Azeroth and she is born there through clandestine love or rape.Baggins 13:57, 17 November 2006 (EST)
 * This idea wouldn't need a retcon. It would need a thousand ones. That's why I think Garona is a plain half-Draenei half-Orc and that any other idea is wrong. That's even unlikelier to me than Draenei descending from Eredar.-- K )  (talk) 17:19, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * I just was reminded of something, there was discussion of great mages including possibly even human ones that may have experienced interplanar travel across the twisting nether, according to the Shadow & LIght sourcebook. It never specifically mentioned at what points in time that explorers got around, or what exact locations they visited, but it may be possible that a great human wizard could have encountered draenor during one of these explorations, and interbred with an orc. That explanation would require no time travel.Baggins 17:24, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Then it would be going against what Metzen said before of there being no contact between humans and orcs prior to the First War.--Grid 17:28, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * It never specifies humans were plane shifting before the first war, and for that matter to Draenor itself, so the book does not go against anything previously said. Infact it implies that most humans were only plane shifting after Khadger did his research into exploring other worlds in the cosmos. But things could be changed in future sources, you have to remember this Metzen we are talking about someone that go against things he previously said in the past. Hell it Orcs had never previusly encountered Night Elves before Warcraft II, and yet War of the Ancients has Brox traveling back in time(to a time that had humands mind you, Azotha).


 * So Metzen could easily have things go differently, by use of time traveler's going to outland, before the first war. It would not contradict what previously was said, just create an alternate timeline. Remember it was said there were no gnomes during the third war, and yet gnomes will be able to take part in the battle of mount hyjal, via Caverns of Time(that is certainly an alternate timeline). BTW, he's creative designer behind the RPG as well, according to the credits, so any ideas have to go through him.Baggins 17:34, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * Your comment about plane-shifting sparked this suggesstion: Garona could be the result of a human projecting to Draenor. Which human to we know definetly visited Draenor before the First War?
 * Could she be Medivh's daughter?--Ragestorm 19:38, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Ooh, I love that idea. We know he was experimenting with portals... We certainly know he was communicating with the Orcs before the first war through the portal. We know he is human... Certainly all elements that could fit together and incorporated into an idea that she is his daughter. Amusing thing is he would never have put two and two together when he finally met her, LOL. Could make for a very nice plot twist.Baggins 20:00, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * What makes you think he didn't know? he could have been protecting her from Sargeras, which leads disturbing bit: Medivh's daughter genetically, but guess who's the "spiritual" father?--Ragestorm 20:11, 17 November 2006 (EST)


 * Heh, heh. Of course, that's if the Medhiv who was talking wasn't Sargeras in the first place ;), either way he could very well be the spiritual father. That begs the question who was in charge of his body when he slept with the orc, ;). There are some interesting ideas submitted in the Alliance and Horde Player's guide that sargeras may have been in full control for years even when it seemed to be Medhiv to those around him, and that the personality may have just been an act to hide his existence.Baggins 20:21, 17 November 2006 (EST)

I wasn't speaking about the book. I was speaking of Chris Metzen's decision of taking her out and deciding not to make her half-human, because in his direct words, he said with the newly established timeline and continuity there was no contact between orcs and humans prior to the breakout of the First War. The Medivh choice does sound interesting, but we know that he only appeared to Gul'Dan as a spectre. From there he led the orc race to Mannoroth through the subtle suggestions of Sargeras. Unless that's changed too.

Perhaps another race lurking that hasn't been introduced yet? Jeff Grubb was smart to be very vague about describing Garona's other half, concluding that whatever the other race was it was very similar to what could've been human.--Grid 01:40, 19 November 2006 (EST)
 * Granted the term "Near-human" when used in fantasy/scifi traditionally means something that evolved from humans sometime in the distant past, or shares some human-like distant ancestor(progenitator theory for example.). In that they are still close to human but with some unique difference. Technically orcs could fall under that definition of near-human, since they can mate with humans, have a general human physical build, with main differences being different colored skin, and tusk-like canines, and slightly different shaped ears.Baggins 10:22, 19 November 2006 (EST)


 * It could easily be said that Medivh visited Draenor physically without the knowledge of Gul'dan (though Mannoroth would be hard to fool). If they think it's dramatic enough, one tiny retcon (not so much a retcon as a "it was revealed") is worth it. --Ragestorm 10:36, 19 November 2006 (EST)

But is it possible in the current timeline from when Medivh awoke from his coma to the beginning of the First War? If there is time enough for him to discover Draenor and father Garona it'd be a pretty cool twist.

One of my theories is that the naaru could be the ghosts (ala wisps for night elves) of a near-human race that the orcs slaughtered after the blood pact. I'm banking on being able to discover ruins of the ancient giants that lived Draenor before the time of the orcs and draenei.--Grid 20:46, 19 November 2006 (EST) Insert non-formatted text here


 * Naaru would have had to be in opposition of the Legion for a significant amount of time prior to helping the Draenei escape Argus, for a minimum of about 26,000 years. I don't think the orcs had even evolved by then, so how could they have slaughtered them. Why do they have to be near-human? move response to Talk:Naaru.--Ragestorm 20:55, 19 November 2006 (EST)

Because Garona herself would have to be something half near-human to look the way she does, unless they found some way to reconcile it like they apparently have done with the half-orc/half-draenei blademaster in BC.

I wasn't aware of the time difference between the naaru helping the draenei till now, so that theory goes out of the window, but it could be possible the naaru have had some sort of ancient connection to Draenor. Such as the reason the draenei chose that particular planet to go to rather than any other.--Grid 00:36, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * They didn't choose that particular planet, they were chased from planet to planet to try to escape the legion. That was the last planet in a long line of planets they visited. Yet, legion still tracked them there.Baggins 00:41, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * I wouldn't put it past Blizzard to retcon her completely. It would not be too difficult to make her half-orc, half-draenai and change her appearance, too. However, I can see an easier (better received) retcon, something along the lines of the first inexperienced human mages messing with portals, one goes wrong and one human male or female ends up on Draenor, stranded, and lives out the rest of his or her life there. Garona's sire dies before the Legion comes (so this person is never mentioned in already recored history), allowing Garona to grow up to be 15 or 18 or however old she is in Warcraft: Orcs and Humans and The Last Guardian. Either way, something arbitrary and irresponsible has to happen to allow Garona to continue to exist in any logically continuous manner. ~


 * Edit: Personally, I just look at her and see the Wicked Witch of the West. 05:03, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * I still like the idea of her being fathered by a human who went back in time. It would make for a pretty sick Caverns of Time level, like the Infinite Dragonflight sends a human rogue back in time to kill some important orc before the First War, and you have to stop him. Then, when you get there and fight him and a ton of Infinite Dragons, you discover he has fallen in love with an orc and he has gotten her pregnant, but then the Bronze Dragonflight (in order to preserve what Metzen said about the orcs having no contact with the humans before the First War) brings him back to the present on Azeroth. That way, Garona could be conceived on Draenor by a human, but technically no orcs other than her mother would have ever had contact with a human. Then I guess they would have to retcon or "reveal" that the orcs didn't know what she was half of until Gul'dan received his first vision from Medivh and discovered that there was a race called humans on another planet and Garona appeared to be part of it. That way we get a clean back story about her origins, they can throw in some character development about how after they discovered she was half-human she was persecuted and that's why she is so angry towards the Horde, and it makes for a really sick instance dungeon. ~ Grudgham (talk) 17:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I just figured...Metzen said there was no contact between orcs and humans and such. Still, what if garona was conceived here in our current time, and that she is the one who travels back in time (in other words, not one of her parents). This means she could age here, then move back in time.

Why would she do this? Well because she already has, I guess she would understand the significance of her deed: Medivh's redemption.

Leaves us with one question: who are her parents? Even though the tension between human and orcs is lower than during the first war, orcs and human mating isn't very common I guess. However, there is one orc/human couple we all want to see...

And I know that both of those (possible) parents have the brains to send her back in time to do what she had to...

--HEMA 18:24, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Removed from Game
The removed from game template is for something that is not part of continuity, and may not exist as part of the history of warcraft in general. This article is not the place for it, as Garona indeed does exist as part of the history of warcraft. If you put it at the beginning of the article you are implying that all of that information is not valid.

However the removed from game would work in the section dealing with garona in wow, just not the entire article.Baggins 12:35, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Warlock Aging Spell
In Rise of the Horde we learn that warlocks have a spell allowing to age orcs before their time(Chapter 14). This is used to age orc children to age 12 when they can be affective fighters. Infact it is manditory, and they also require all Horde clans to start procreating in order to have more children, so that they can be aged into the Horde forces.

This explanation could also be used to explain how Garona could be born to orc/human parents, and be "aged" to an adult during the First War.Baggins 11:50, 11 January 2007 (EST)


 * While it doesn't account for her intelligence (we learn that Rend, Maim, and Griselda are slow by orcish standards and therefore morons by human ones and braindead by elvish ones), it does appear to be a good reconciler. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:03, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Garona displays no knowledge of the orcs shamanistic heritage and remembers the orcs homeworld as always being a barren wasteland. This makes it unlikely that she grew up normaly. Zarnks 05:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Gul'dan could have used a spell to increase her intelligence,he did it with ogres. He might even be her father! Zarnks 02:42, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the Medivh idea better, but yours does make sense. Still leaves the other half open to interpretation. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think she's half draenei,at the time Caydiem made that statement,draenei's origianl forms were supposed to be near humans rather then eredar. Lets narrow the list down of what she could be half of. Zarnks 19:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Draenei-lacks the forehead plate,tail,hooves and tentacles. Are less human then orcs,certainly not near humans.
 * Ogres-More humanlike the draenei but she is certainly not a Mok'nathal.
 * humans-really the only one that makes sense


 * Too true- I still prefer the idea that Medivh is her father. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Still appears fishy to me. Medivh has never been to Draenor, and half-draenei already look like orcs in game.-- K )  (talk) 10:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't know how often Medivh went to Draenor (at the very least, he sent dreams and projections to people there). As for the second, half-draenei characters probably use a placeholder in the same idea as Arator. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We know that the only way to go to Draenor is a portal, and Medivh created the first one by a time Garona should have already reached adulthood. According to her experience and assassination techniques, it's then strange to assume that she was oldened (sorry, crappy verb here) by a spell, as this training would probably take several years to complete. And yes, you may speak about a placeholder for the blade master's model. And I prefer to stick on what a Blizzard employee said instead of doubting of it.-- K )  (talk) 00:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Shes not Half draenei. At the time Caydiem made that statement,uncorrupted draenei were nearhumans. Garona's other half must be either humans or near humans and Nowdays draenei are even less humanlike then orcs. Zarnks 01:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We still don't know what she looks like and what she's meant to look like when in WoW. Former concept art never proved to be evidence. The only assumption of her "near-human" parent was made by a dwarf called Brann Bronzebeard whose ambition was to finish his book as soon as possible, before dying because of his reckless exploring attitude, and who had (I think) never seen Garona, or shortly, and who'd never been on Draenor.-- K )  (talk) 02:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No the phrase near human to describe was used by Mediv. We know what she looks like. Her description in Last Guardian fits her art. Zarnks 02:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Kingsfall
Is the dagger Kingsfall that drops off Kel'Thuzad the same dagger, if not a reference to, the dagger Garona used to assassinate King Llane? wowlorefan 6:46, 12 January 2007


 * No info is forthcoming, so think "reference" instead of the actual dagger, for now. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 08:50, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Daughter of Medivh?
I have a crazy idea. If all the lores are true, Garona was a half-orc half-human as in Warcraft I, and Garona was among the Orcs that came through dark portal from Draenor. The only possible conclusion is she was the daughter of Medivh, the Last Guardian. Because Medivh was the only human that visited Draenor before Dark Portal open.

It is true that blizzard had no full story idea when the first series of warcraft game released. Most of Orc clans have a brutal name - Laughing Skull, Bleeding Hollow, Stormreaver, Warsong..., despite Blizzard described them as peaceful, primal race before the corruption. Furthermore, Dragonmaw clan had their name before they saw any dragons - No dragons in Draenor before Dark Portal.

Let's wait and see how Blizzard tell the story about Garona in future expansions. --Ranma 16:25, 4 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Medivh states she is half-human or half-humanLIKE. dreanei orc is a possibility, but she looks more orc than draenei. given the timeframe now, it is impossible for her to be human, as medivh only visited through dreams, never in person that i've ever heard.--Haddon 17:35, 4 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I made a similar connection a few months ago, above. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:55, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

"it is impossible for her to be human"

More specifically to quote, "Brann", "It would seem impossible", although not necessarily impossible. Plenty of ways it could work, although that's not to say fans would want those explanations or not.Baggins 23:22, 9 April 2007 (EDT) Gul'dan can be seen wielding the dagger in Shadowmoon Valley(he's ghost anyway)(Marakanis)

Medivh wasn't the 1-st human in Draenor... I don't remember him even going through the Dark Portal. Yes he was with Gul'Dan once, but spiritually...--Grievous 16:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sloppy retcons are not uncommon with Blizzard. Actually, it's preferred. So although there is absolutely no implication existing of Medivh actually physically visiting Draenor, if the writers want to conjure up some new "hidden" (i.e just created) lore to explain it, then it will be done. A large part of why the half-draenei half-orc lineage has been retconned was due to Chris Metzen's decision to lnik the eredar with the draenei. -- Zexx 03:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The main characteristic of sloppy retcons is that they are completely unpredictable. The enormous steamy sack of speculations that our faithful WoWwikians have blissfully brought out of nil was lightyears away from the actual Draenei retcon. What you are doing is predicting a retcon, which is one of the most feared things of the bookkeepers.-- K )  (talk) 12:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * All they need to do was say that Sargeras/Medivh was capable of translocation to other worlds, which is more of a tacky plot revelation than a retcon. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Then when Blizzard announces that Garona is finally going to become a major player again, we just have to gird our loins and deal with it. Either way, a retcon will come, as Chris Metzen implied. -- Zexx 14:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ragestorm, "translocation" could have any meaning, I guess. It was said that he visited Draenor and Gul'dan's head "telepathically". Why on earth would he have bothered if he could just translocate? All these conjectures are so wobbly that they might best wait until confirmation.
 * Zexx, of course you can somehow predict that a retcon is going to happen, but it is in no way serious to introduce your guesses as what the nature of this retcon will be.-- K )  (talk) 01:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Why? Did we somehow create a law on speculation now? I see it more as giving an example rather than a speculation. --- Zexx 12:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hell no, there's no such law.-- K )  (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Un-used half-draenei model
"There is an unused model ingame of an orc with features of an uncorrupted draeneifact, so this model might be used for Garona in the future. It also implies that Garona is a half-draenei/orc."-User:Bas


 * If that is true, and you weren't just looking at a Paint Shop job on someone's website, it begs the question why it wasn't used for Lantresor of the Blade? Though it would fit the info in the RPG that "Half-draenei" are supposed to have physical features of Draenei with orc features. But that would be in contradiction to the fact that she was not supposed to have any draenei features.Baggins 13:04, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


 * After a quick look using the model viewer, I couldn't find that model. If there really is one, could someone provide us with the file name? --Teomyr 13:19, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


 * He put it in there... take a look. --Sandwichman2448 15:35, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Umm... am I the only one who noticed that the model is male, and therefore cannot be Garona?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:41, 8 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Well it does seem to be based off the basic orc female model, orc female panties, and orc female facial structure, if its male it sure has huge man-boobs (no offense)... Its not the first time blizzard has used other base models to design "new" creatures, for example Wretched (built from male Forsaken model).Baggins 10:57, 8 April 2007 (EDT)


 * To this anthropologist's eyes, it looks definetly male. I agree that a clearly female version of that could work for Garona- sorry, but this would definetly be a retcon. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:06, 8 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I think we would agree that it would be a major retcon, as it looks absolutely nothing like she was described or portrayed in other sources, text or artwork. I think people forget that "when" Caydiem made that assumption, that Garona must be "half-draenei", she was going from an idea that "draenei" must have used look almost exactly like humans before being "corrupted" by the destruction of "their" world, :p... Metzen's idea to turn draenei into "eredar" came much later.-Baggins 15:11, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Currently, theory that this picture may be a hoax, or a glitch. Apparently it is a female orc-body, with male draenei graphic mapped to it. It apparently doesn't exist in the known models, or at least no one else has been able to access the graphic.Baggins 23:28, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Someone just skinned the female Orc body with the male Draenei skin. This so-called "possibility" needs to be removed from the article. This hoax isn't well-done.


 * Inserted picture for reference* -- 11:30, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

Don't agree with that. Garona got included in WoW once and she already has a model.... (File:GaronaWoWBeta.jpg)--Grievous 16:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

On a note regarding that "half draenei model", I know where it comes from. In the model veiwer, under the creature section, are several unused models from alpha, including a slew of different human body types and a handfull of orc ones, including one called "Orcfemalewarriorlight" which has no skin texture on it. On models such as that, if you open a character model, then open the skinless model, the skin of the character will be plastered onto the skin of the creature. So in this case, someone opened a male draenei character model, then went to the creature section, down to the female warrior model, and opened it, resulting in the so called half draenei model. The same method can be used to get a decent idea what a female fel orc would look like.Tweak the Whacked 00:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I tried that. It didn't work; the model wasn't visible at all. —Qit el-Remel 12:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Hidden Orc Model or Hoax?

 * There has been a claim that an unused model exists game files that appears to have orc and draenei-like features. There is some discussion that it might be an unfinished female Broken model, however. Other speculate that it is a glitch or a hoax created from a female orc model retextured with the male draenei skin. If it is real, it could possibly be used in the future for Garona, or even Lantressor. It should be noted that this so-called "hidden" model cannot be found using the model viewer.


 * It is much more likely, upon closer inspection, that someone simply took the Orc female body and reskinned with a male Draenei texture.


 * New Discovery: Upon further examination it is nothing but a model that assumes the skin of the character, if you character is a bloodelf and you change your model to that one it will have the bloodelf skin.

Moved to here since its kinda irrelevant in the main article.Baggins 20:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

theres an exapmle of half orc/half draenei in TBC the one guy of the blade is what they look like


 * Sign your posts... Actually that one just used Rend Blackhand's orc model, in the same way that Arator uses a blood elf model. Its a cheap short cut.Baggins 02:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Assassinaton of king Wrynn
I didn't read novel yet, so can somebody please enlighten me with some general description why Garona assassinated him? Was it simply along "Oh, he's one of my best friends, but since Shadow Councils asks, I guess I'll just have to cut out his heart. Besides I fated to kill him." lines. Shouldn't she tried to decide her own course of actions except depending on some "pre-destiny"? Or, hopefully, there's deeper plot behind this? --Rowaasr13 09:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * She's been ingrained to follow the orders of the Shadow Council, and that destiny controlled her actions- remember that what you or I think about destiny isn't going to the same as other users on this site, let alone what she would think. It's also possible she was geased. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Medivh messed up her mind too. --Austin P 14:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

And that's the main reason Austin. People just don't go and kill their best friends. In "The Last Guardian" Medivh/Sargeras did mess up with her mind to make her kill king Llane no matter what she does. But there is another question - Why didn't Khadgar try to stop her? I am pretty sure if he called a gryphon he would have got to him earlier than that traitor Garona...--Grievous 16:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Broxigar
Just a speculation but if u check the lore regarding Broxigar the Red he was the first orc to have ever been on azeroth way before even the dark portal opened, because he was thrown back in time along with Rhonin and Krasus as the lore states. Therefore keeping those events into account it could be possible that he most likely fell in love with a human girl, The result of which could have been Garon halforcen. Krasus must have then again taken her back to the future altered her memories (like all bronze dragons have the power to do as shown in COT: Durnholde). So when the first orc invasion occured she was most likely taken back by the raiding orc party( as one of krasus's plans) to draenor where she was raised and would then be a part of the events to take place 14 years later. If you look at it this way it would technically make sense as the bronze dragonflight has both the powers to alter peoples minds and change the timeline they have been in. Therefore making sense why Medhiv would comment at her half human features. Most likely making her a Half Human and Half Orc.

Heres a link to Broxigar the red. Broxigar. Aztec ghoul 19:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Several problems: humans weren't around at the time Brox was sent back to, he didn't meet any humans others than Rhonin, and he died before having a chance to do any such stuff (and night elves would have been disgusted by the idea). Krasus also isn't a bronze dragon, and he had little control over who or what was brought back. There also wouldn't have been enough time for the baby to gestate during the events of WotA, meaning the mother would have to be brought to the present as well. 19:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It might be possible that he might not have met any human during the war of the ancients but the storyline never mentions that humans were never around. Do you think that the humans suddenly appeared on azeroth after the sundering. Its kinda pointless to believe that the human race only came to existence after the sundering. We cant just rule out the ideas just because blizzard never mentioned broxigar meeting any other human other than rhonin and yes i know krasus was a red dragon. But the bronze dragonflight still works in different ways.Aztec ghoul 02:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "humans weren't around at the time Brox was sent back to"
 * Azotha humans were around at the time, but they were nomadic fighting the trolls somewhere else on the continent. 03:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice, been wondering about that for ages. --Raze 03:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Metzen on Garona
Q: Garona Halforcen A: Would like to try to make her significant. She is a very cool character and would like to try to bring her back in and make her a den mother of the orcish race. Just an opinion, not sold to the boys yet, but it would be cool to find Thrall a mate one day ... (laughter). I mean, he's gotta have sons, right? That's my thinking but we'll see how that pans out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Yes indeed :) 22:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * She's at least twice his age, even with Gul'dan's acceleration spell! Sorry, I still think that Jaina's half-orc kids would be better.
 * In other words, neither option is really viable. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:29, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Jaina's "half-orc" kid = Garona after a trip to the cavern's of time ;)Baggins 23:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Metzen was only joking. Zarnks 00:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Or was he? ;) I think it was only partly a joke, people were reasonably receptive to it in the audience. 00:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What big Idea Baggins --N&#39;Nanz 19:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Garona references in World of Warcraft: Tides of Darkness
It might not mean much but their are references to Garona in Tides of Darkness, some are very interesting, at least the ones I've read (so correct me if I'm misreading the context). Some of the references make it appear as if she may not have come from Draenor, and only knew of it. It makes reference to her not knowing all the details of why or how the orcs first became corrupted, and she apparently learned it second hand. Interesting Khadgar knows that they were once brown-skinned orcs, and turned green from what info he received from Garona.Baggins 03:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Um, WHAT? Source, please?-- K )  (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Tides of Darkness? ;) 18:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, fortunately I can still read, but yet I don't remember anything related to this in the game. Maybe in the manual?-- K )  (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You do know of the novel right?Baggins 19:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Shall I? *check WoWwiki* Oh, there's been a new novel out! Wait... Where do I live again? France, that's right the place where none knows a heck about what's going on in the U.S.A. Ok I guess I'll have to look for it on Amazon. Sorry.-- K )  (talk) 20:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Fan recolor
Moving the fan recolor out of the article, replaced it with the official artwork version.Baggins 19:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Why do I feel we've had this conversation before? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol, I've had to remove these fan recolors from half-dozen pages, :p.Baggins 21:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Would Garona be a daughter of Thrall and Jaina that came back to the past by Caverns of Time?
A lot of people believe in a relationship between these two characters. Wouldn’t it be possible that Garona were their future daughter (a half-orc and half-human) sent back to the past by the Bronze Dragonflight in Caverns of Time to prevent certain events of the past of not happening?


 * We have discussed this idea before up above, :).Baggins 18:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Thrall + Jaina's Half child
I belive this is a good point.

Garona Halforcen cud be the child of Thrall and Jaina child as they do have a "special" friendship with each other.

Also both of them have a special necklace that lets them know when the other wants to meet them. Both also meet a lot to discuss different stuff between the nations but that wuz before World of Warcraft say about 3 years prior which would rule out the idea of Garona being their child.

If she wuz put through the Caverns of Time that would sort it out. However i doubt the Bronze Dragons would allow someone to be placed bak in time unless they have a special reason. Which could be the fact that it would put Azeroth into dismay if Humans and Orcs found out that their leaders were "more than friends" this would give them a good reason to allow it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * And the purpose of this uneditorial statement? This isn't a forum, you know.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey its a wiki for WoW and this is a talk the fact that Garona could be the child of Thrall and Jaina is a good point. If i didnt put it in the right place sorry but you have to remember every point —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * The point is : why should you bother? Loads and loads of "good points" have been submitted on the wiki about various lore questions. Very few, if any, have proved true or close to truth. As you may have noticed, this page is full of nonsense statements expressed by all sorts of lore experts and unstoppable neophytes. This page has by far bypassed its limits of useless and worthless speculation. This is a talk page for the wiki article about Garona. Please only discuss about possible improvements for the article itself. Keep your "fan" (I don't like that word either) ideas for the analysis talk page, or some kind of Warcraft forum. We are trying to give WoWwiki an encyclopaedia's purpose, not a mess of user-made suppositions.-- K )  (talk) 13:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * What he said. The discussion page is for discussing changes to the article. Some pages have analysis talk pages for non-editorial discussions that have cropped up. The reason we're getting on your case is because A) Your above comment is clearly intended as lore discussion, not editorial, and B) we don't post all forms of speculation on all subjects, and Garona has by far too much speculation already. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Then guys what is a talk page?Geez if i put a statement in a wrong place then im sorry you've already given me a mouthful ive got the picture and yes youre right there is already to much writing on Garona but if u want WoW wiki to be an encyclopaedia then dont just have a shout at me what about all others who commented on this page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * We're not shouting at you, dear member. This is no place for your ideas, this page was meant for finding improvements for the article itself, not the facts stated. Thank us for helping you not to get in slight trouble. Welcome to WoWwiki, have a look on our policies pages, and ask us for help.-- K )  (talk) 00:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah common stop picking on the guy.Baggins 00:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

>_< Mean Baggins. I wasn't picking on him, I just wanted him to know that we'll be glad to help him as long as he doesn't take personally our policy-abiding moves.-- K )  (talk) 00:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Garona would be at least twice as old as Jaina. Efreeti 16:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Garona, Thrall's early days (thrall and garona both have the abillity to read and write) and the friendship between Thrall and Jaina are rare oppurtunities of interaction between the alliance and the horde, since she's a timetraveller i say yeah, we put all this together. (Sweatboy (talk) 03:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC))

Where she was seen last time
No, I'm not talking about the Ravenholdt Manor. I'm asking where Doomhammer was torturing her? Was it on Draenor, or in Azeroth? If on Azeroth, where exactly, if you know? I need it for plans of my campaing for WC3. --Shargas the Naga (talk) 14:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * On Azeroth, that's all that we know. --WarlockSoL (talk) 19:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, anyway. It gives me more options to creativity ;) --Shargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 20:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If I was going to take a guess, I would say probably Blackrock Spire, as that's the most likely place you are going to find Orgim Doomhammer during that time period. Either that, or in that general vicinity (Horde-controlled land during War 1). --WarlockSoL (talk) 21:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I was also thinking about the Blackrock Spire. However, I'll be asking around for some details soon, as I'm not familiar with WC1, but interested in this forgotten (by latest lore) character --Shargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 21:12, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Garona/Sargeras?
I have read The Last Guardian. Is there any chance that when Medivh touched Garona's head and made that second spell, that a part of Sargeras went into her? After the battle with Medivh, she mysteriously disappeared—and Khadgar tried to look for her but never did find her. She ended up killing King Llane, and Khadgar doesn't seem to have stopped her. The only thing I can think is that she was magically shielded since Khadgar is a powerful mage, and I am sure he had the power to find anyone he wanted. He never knew where Medivh went when he was an apprentice at Karazhan either. Garona greatly admired King Llane since he would listen to her ideas. When Garona is about to kill King Llane she seems conflicted as if she is not controlling her movements. Rolandius (talk) 01:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The disappearance and killing Llane thing is pretty well-covered by the Shadow Council explanation (she could have even been geased). Plus, if comments made at Blizzcon are examined, it looks that while they're interested in bringing her back, they haven't actually done the story yet. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What does "geased" mean? If Garona was affected by Medivh's touch, it would be a great way to bring in a bit of Sargeras into the WoW world.   Rolandius (talk) 04:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * To be technical, he is already in the WoW world ;-P. Geased: being forced to operate under a geas, a powerful spell-like work of magic that forces the victim to carry out the instruction of the geas or die. Typically, it differs from mind control in that the geased individual is bound to follow the wording of the spell. Personally, I think that it would be better to have just let that damned annoying lore-contradicting little piece of him die completely after that incident, unless they decide that it was the whole bit of Sargeras, in which case your suggestion isn't so bad. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL I learn something new everyday. Geased—that is a new one. So where is Sargeras in the WoW world?
 * The WoW world is Azeroth and the Warcraft universe. He's been a part of that for ages. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL I thought you meant he was actually in the game. What I meant was that it could be a way to bring a bit of Sargeras into the game...maybe even his avatar. LOL Not actually him of course he is too powerful.   Rolandius (talk) 13:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My friends and I always maintained that the final, epic battle of WoW would be all 10 million subscribers fighting Sargeras's left thumb. And losing.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I add to that: Unless the Titans come back, as foretold, to help us.   Rolandius (talk) 09:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

It seems obvious
Given that she is obviously one of the earliest major characters to still exist, the way I see it, where Garona's parentage is concerned, there are only really two possibilities. Either:-


 * She is half-human, but the explanation of how a human got to Draenor before the opening of the Portal was never explained, and due to the story having changed so much now, Blizzard would no longer be able to explain it in such a way that it fits, despite the fact that, as a character she's still there.

OR


 * She's half-Draenei, but that decision was made at a time before Blizzard had concretely fleshed out the story of the Draenei either. Hence, back then, the Draenei that were on the drawing board were a lot closer to humans anatomically, and so Garona could be half Orc, but with the other half being the Draenei that Blizz had conceptualised at the time, not the current variety.  Truthfully, I've always really felt as though the whole Argus/Naaru thing was shoehorned in, and not a particularly good fit, in the overall storyline.  In the very brief way they were mentioned earlier, I had thought they were supposed to be simply another indigenous race on Draenor who evolved on that planet, parallel to the Orcs.  I feel as though that would have been a lot more plausible than all the "space goat," rubbish, as well.

Either way, I feel fairly certain that, that is likely the reason why Blizz are keeping mum about her origins; simply because in continuity terms, she is a mistake. She also isn't one who can easily be retconned out of existence, because of the number of other elements she has become involved in.

In that sense, she is an anomaly, and one which I compare with Tom Bombadil, who I personally believe was Tolkien's Mary Sue. Tolkien would have expended an enormous amount of discipline in the creation and maintenance of Middle Earth. Bombadil was thus Tolkien's one indulgence, and possibly the one anomaly; the one element which simply did not fit the rest of his continuity.

Garona is similar, in the sense that although she isn't a Mary Sue, from the point of view of her origins, she doesn't fit, simply because her origins involved a scenario which is inconsistent with the rest of Blizzard's published history, and as I said, she also now touches too many other elements of the lore to be plausibly edited out. I strongly suspect that if we learn about her origins in the future, it will be because of some artificial contortions that Metzen has performed in the meantime; it won't be the original story of how she came to be, because that happened in a timeline which no longer exists.

Petrus4 (talk) 10:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Retconned out of battle with Medivh?
I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned on here yet, but did anyone read the Town Hall page on the Burning Crusade website for Karazhan? http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/karazhan.html

"As the war progressed, Medivh fought against Sargeras' control. The raging conflict within him finally drove the wizard irrevocably insane. His childhood friend and the king's lieutenant-at-arms, Anduin Lothar, suspected the mage of treachery. With the aid of Medivh's young apprentice, Khadgar, Lothar stormed Karazhan and killed his one-time comrade."

The write-up doesn't mention Garona at all. --DerSquirrel (talk) 06:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't specifically exclude her from it, though. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That might be a reason. Lothar was a childhood friend and Khadgar was his apprentice. Garona was just an envoy. Also, Garona didn't really fight him as much as Lothar and Khadgar, they are the two who actually "killed" him. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 07:40, 26 December 2008 (UTC)