Talk:Arthas Menethil/Archive1

Has Arthas turned into an Undead?
Well, I'm just curious. The page says he is a Undead Human, but I dont remember when he turned into one. Is this right? ---Phalk Jan. 18, 09:25:55 PM (EST)
 * Yes. His body died when Frostmourne took his soul in.  I don't know how he  ( or for that matter Sylvanas )  has managed to keep his skin and hair and whatnot so  ( relatively )  healthy-looking, but despite appearances he is undead.  Who knows, maybe his skin's decomposed beneath all that armor by now.
 * As for his human soul, I'm pretty sure that's gone too, or it's merged with that of Ner'zhul. --Super Bhaal 04:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually was still alive. When he ventured out into the wastes he was alive he was battling for his sanity with the lich king. After a while his soul was gone thus taking his sanity. When he lost his soul completely and had lost his sanity he was in the lich kings control. If he died when frostmourne took his soul immediately he would not have been able to cast any holy light spells if you recall he still was able to cast holy light, divine shield, devotion aura and ressurection. He lost his soul after wandering into the wastes. He still was able to turn back if not for there being no one there to stop him. Once he lost his soul his body was still alive but under the lich kings will. His hair turned white when the lich king took over and his pale skin from the same way. The Arthas we once played and owned people with has "died" in that sense but as in his living part of death and reanimation he was still alive. -User:Whitedragon254

Quick changes in "The Lich King Triumphant" and "Identity Crisis"
I removed the "We don't know if Arthas returned to the light at this point" - since that part of the article is supposed to deal with what we *do* know and not discuss speculation. Arthas heard the voices of his old allies and friends, heard the Lich King's voice, freed him, then became him "could/maybe/might" is irrelevant there.

With 'Identity Crisis' it was a very minor change. I moved: "There are also fans who have speculated about further plot twists involving the Lich King, such as Arthas fighting Ner'zhul within their mind, etc." to before Chris Metzen's explanation, since while I think it's a valid addition, I think the creator should get the final word.

(I should have listed both as minor edits, but I forgot. Sorry.) (Ulicus 11:24, 17 Feb 2006 (EST))

Extraneous Info
Is it truely necessary to document every step Arthas took, every single breath he took, every person he communicated with? The worst example of this is the step-by-step recounting of the entire first mission. Who cares if Villager Blake and Villager Ryan were playing tag? Who cares that Benedict the Bandit made a forgettable attempt to steal from him? There is entirely too much extraneous info here, and it takes away from the parts that really matter. --Adonzo 23:20, 6 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Wow...I agree that page is almost unreadable. Every other word is a blue link about a villager and that villagers page just says the same exact thing from the story. Example: He saw three villagers who said nothing when he passed: Villager Maria, Villager Amy Diane and Villager Jeremy.  Each villager is a link to a page that says, Villager x saw Arthas when Arthas passed by in Strahnbrad.  It feels wrong for me to say that correct information is useless and goes against my beliefs, but it is probably overkill to have a seperate page for every villager the says basically the exact same thing that is in the article (which isn't that useful to begin with).  I don't know that it should be deleted...but something needs to be done to make this page more readable.--Ralthor 23:29, 6 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I entirely agree. An article should concisely convey important information.  People who want every single word and step can play the game.  Take the scalpel to it. --Aeleas 23:42, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

We've had similar problems on other pages- I'm specifically thinking of the Tyrande and the Hydralisk incident, and the Illidan page is going through a sort of similar thing (but that farmer whoever playing tag is just pathetic. mark for cleanup! Ragestorm 06:37, 7 April 2006 (EDT)


 * So I added to the page.  --Ralthor 09:29, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Insanity
"Arthas speaks of feeling no pity regarding his actions"

As I recall, Arthas admitted feeling no remorse after Tichonrius confirmed the soul-stealing nature of Frostmourne. Arthas felt no remorse, because his soul belonged to Ner'zhul, who had no need of a Death Knight who felt guilty.--Ragestorm 18:53, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Do we really need the Star Trek reference!? ><  --Adonzo 21:53, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * A very good point- that's resorted to the worst sci-fi cliche. Unless the insanity section is defended with a standard day, it should be deleted. --Ragestorm 12:37, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

After reading the "pre-merger insanity" section again, I'm bewildered. Is the point that Arthas was insane prior to obtaining Frostmourne, or that he wasn't. And strictly speaking, insanity doesn't really enter it at all, since the process was technically "corruption" as opposed to "insanity". --Ragestorm 16:47, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

After reading the "pre-merger insanity" section again, I'm bewildered. Is the point that Arthas was insane prior to obtaining Frostmourne, or that he wasn't? And strictly speaking, insanity doesn't really enter it at all, since the process was technically "corruption" as opposed to "insanity". --Ragestorm 16:47, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Not that this post will be noticed, but I think we should remove the "Pre-Merger Insanity" section completely. It's confusing, it's an eyesore and it's completely irrelevent. --Ragestorm 19:23, 2 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Removing Insanity section by proxy of no one protesting. --Ragestorm 21:19, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * He wasn't insane before wielding Frostmourne or at last he wasn't yet in stratholme while the culling because he asks for forgiveness to his father. He feels remors for what he is doing N&#39;Nanz 13:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Age - Only 20 by the beginning of WC3?
For those who have read the Pen&Paper sourcebooks, here's a thought:

There's a letter by Uther dated on the year 24, and it states Arthas recently became a paladin.

We know two things:

accournding to the most recent printings of the timeline, WC3 started in the year 25

Arthas became a paladin at the age of 19.

Now, I doubt Uther would have written -recently- if the event dated a few years back already. Does that mean Arhas was merely 20 as the third war started? (would make him be 3-4 years old in DotD) --Maibe 18:40, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Hmmm.... not a bad estimate at all, given that Humans in Warcraft are roughly at the technological and cultural level of the early Renaisannce of Earth- Human lifespans aren't that long in comparison. I don;t think it's unlikely at all. What year do you have for Arthas's birth? --Ragestorm 19:32, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Actually, it's a common misconception that people died much younger long ago. the average age was much lower, but for the rich, nobility who had good good, medical care and didnt work themselves to death (which arthas was) they lived close to as long as they do today. 70 wasnt unheard of back then, and many of the most famous people lived to be quite old (julius caesar was 56 when he was killed, and he wasnt considered an old man yet).
 * As for arthas being 3-4...wasnt his sister supposed to be younger, and she was like 6 in the book i think. because i remember deathwing saying he would have to wait years for her hand in marriage, i thought--Haddon 18:12, 12 October 2006 (EDT)


 * And I thought that you of all people would sign your posts. You're right about the rich not dying (Ramses the Great was nearly 90). I was a bit muddled- I meant that in comparision to Elves or even dwarves, human lives are short. --Ragestorm 20:44, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Oh cmon Rage, you know i always forget to sign my damned posts! i usually go back and sign em later tho, haha. im far more used to typing in forums, IMs and chats than i am in these so i forget all the time.
 * And do we have any real mention of human lives in warcraft? i mean, some are obviously pretty damned old (like khadgar, body-wise..hed be over 90 now). is it like us? or like middle-earth and forgotten realms, where they can live easily over 100 and still be healthy? they are obviously much shorter than elves, but im guessing 90 isnt too old for a human mage.--Haddon 18:12, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Fair enough, though Mages are always a bit confusing age-wise. Khadgar is prbably in his fifties or sixties, but he was prematurely aged, so he could look over a hundred. And those 100+ humans in Middle-Earth had Elvish blood. Forget my comment about Azeroth's development. It's just a question of establishing ages for reference (which will eventually go into the infoboxes). --Ragestorm 19:02, 12 October 2006 (EDT)


 * He was 18 at the end of last guardian, so hed be about 45 now, but his body would be around 100 or so probably, from the looks of what it was before(i always imagine the guy who played saruman, only bulkier).--Haddon 00:06, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Have a look at the beta image in Khadgar's page. more like Aragorn in a Kirin Tor uniform.--Ragestorm 09:42, 13 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Yeah i saw him, and i automatically thought about a character in an old RPg called tactics ogre. cept that character was a swordmaster, but he looked like...the same. i had a laugh.--Haddon 18:19, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

I will ROFL and die the day I see Aragorn shooting a blast of magic from his hand... BTW, so right now Arthas is how old? --Invin Dranoel 00:16, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

I seem to recall it saying Arthas was 24 in the manual for Warcraft 3, wouldn't it make him 28 by the time WoW roles around? --Kongurous 22:32, 28 January 2007 (EST)


 * Just wanted to mention that Calia is older than Arthas, not the other way around. In the Day of the Dragon, Arthas was probably around 2 years old, and Calia was around 8 or so. -- 07:49, 29 January 2007 (EST)
 * That would make him merely 18-19 at WC3...Somehow I doubt events took place this shortly after he became a paladin :/--Maibe 08:54, 29 January 2007 (EST)
 * Ok, he's described as a 'toddler'. In the strictest definition, that should be between ages 1 and 3. In a wider description, though, it can be as old as 5 years of age. I really doubt he was that old though, as he was staggering around and could hardly form coherent sentences. I'd put him at age 3 max.


 * He's also described in WC3 several times as 'young' and 'inexperienced'. If he's 19-20 years old, that does make sense. He's got natural skills and great devotion to the profession, which could explain his relatively strong position in the order, even if he is clearly inferior to Uther. -- 12:05, 29 January 2007 (EST)

I have my WC3 manual. Confirmed as 24 in the beginning of WarCraft 3, same as Thrall. The Burning Crusade manual is extremely fuzzy on the time jump between WoW and the present, but the gap between the events of WoW and the Third War was 5 years, making Arthas 29 or 30 currently. With another time jump he'll probably be around 32-36 in WotLK. Zexx 17:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Just thought I'd add a little bit of information to shine light on the age issue: we know for a fact that Terenas ruled over Lordaeron for over 70 years, as is said by Uther at the end of mission 2 on the undead campaign; "your father ruled over this land for 70 years, and you've crushed it to dust in a matter of days", so he could quite easily be almost 100, if not older. And concurring with Zexx, he is 24 at the start of the third war, it is roughly 4 or 5 years since then that WoW takes place. By the time WotLK comes round, he would have to be at least in his mid thirties, if not older, purely for the changes that are depicted to transpire. Drahauk 21:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Arthas is 24 years old at the beginning of Reign of Chaos (as per the manual). That makes him 25 during the Frozen Throne, 29 at the beginning of World of Warcraft, 30 during the Burning Crusade, and most likely 31 by Wrath of the Lich King.
 * According to the timeline on the WoW site, Arthas would've been born 4 years before the First War, and be 10 years old during the Second War.
 * According to the timeline from the Alliance Player's Guide, Arthas would've been born around the start of the First War, and be 5 years old at the start of the Second War.
 * Either way, he couldn't have been born during the Second War (as this article currently states). Egrem 00:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't even try to figure ages vs. time lines and references in manuals, you'll hurt your head... Blizzard changes so often its impossible to follow. In anycase as per Tides of Darkness, Arthas was already a young child during the Second War, as I recall.Baggins 00:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

A Brief History of Violence
Just to note, Prince Arthas was the son of King Terenas, the last true king of Lordaeron. When Arthas returned from Northrend after defeating Malganis and being consumed by Frostmourne, he killed Teranas and claimed the throne as his own. While rebuilding the kingdom of Lordaeron, he was drawn away to Northrend to defend the Lich King's Frozen Throne. In his absense, Lordaeron was taken by three dreadlords left by the Burning Legion's invasion. Sylvanas Windrunner, recently freed from the Lich King's control, gathered an army of Forsaken and defeated all three dreadlords. She then took up residence in the Undercity of Lordaeron Castle and retook the area immediately around it. Balnazzar, the last surviving dreadlord, still holds the area east of Tirisfal.

Arthas immediate successor was Balnazzar. However, his current successor is Sylvanas Windrunner. I've left Balnazzar in the succession box, but I wanted to note that Arthas was not preceeded by Balnazar as ruler of Lordaeron whatsoever. 01:58, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * You'll find that he was, technically. After the Scourge was given to the Dreadlords, Balnazzar and his ilk ruled Lordaeron until Arthas' return from Kalimdor, then Arthas took power back, only to have Balnazzar take the position again just before Arthas left for Northrend, and then lost it to Sylvanas.--Ragestorm 09:50, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * There is a brief scene in Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos where Arthas travels to meet Illidan for the first time to convince him to steal the skull of Gul'dan. However, he was at this time still the official king of Lordaeron. Also, the Burning Legion had not yet been destroyed, and the dreadlords had not yet betrayed him. Most likely, Kel'Thuzad was overseeing the construction of Undercity at this time while Arthas was away. But all were still (or at least pretending, in the dreadlords' cases) loyal to Arthas. 11:41, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * Umm... no, the Dreadlords never even pretended to be loyal to Arthas (hence, they never betrayed him). Arthas was never the "official king of Lordaeron" as he was not crowned and did not partake in any governing between the death of Terenas and his grasp of power from the Dreadlords - he fled into the Plaguelands immediately after the assassination, then step out upon his campaign, then was covertly sent to Kalimdor, then returned and claimed the throne. You're right about the succession boxes, though - it's just simpler this way. --Ragestorm 13:23, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * Arthas was by blood, which could be considered official. He also had physical control of the area, since he had enough stability at the very least to begin construction of Undercity. It's a pretty complex political situation. For simplicity's sake, I would say Arthas had rule of Lordaeron after Terenas, even if he didn't have complete control over, between middle-management demons, general anarchy, and Eredar demigods. Since the area was in such a state of flux, and since loyalties were never constant, I would give the balance of power over to the person who had the most influence on the region between Terenas in W3 and Balnazzar in FT, who would be Arthas.


 * The following should illustrate how I think the shiznit went down:


 * 14:12, 7 November 2006 (EST)

I still maintain that Balnazzar would have been in control during the main part of the invasion, but for the purposes of the succession, your model works well enough.--Ragestorm 14:19, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * All right. Fair enough. =c) 03:31, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Image placement problem
I'm using Firefox 2.0 to view this, and the image entitled "Arthas fighting Illidan at base of the Icecrown Glacier" in the The Lich King Triumphant section seems to cut off the text above it. I've tried messing with it more than once, and it seems to look fine in the preview, but it always cuts off that text. Anyone else having this problem and/or have a way of fixing it? 13:14, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Im using Firefox too, and i have the same problem, noticed it on some other pages to, think it was Mannoroth... or maybe it was Pit Lord... -Rovdyr

Hold ctrl and scroll up/down to change the size of the letters. That will place the image correctly.

I personally think we could do away with some of the pictures, but that's just my opinion... El le th wen 15:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Events at Hearthglen
I have corrected the description of the events at Hearthglen.

Arthas had sent Jaina to find Uther as soon as he heard there was an undead army approaching. Consequently, only Arthas learned that the plague turned people into the undead.

This does bring up an interesting topic of speculation: what would have happened if she had seen the effect of the plague on the villagers?

Maybe she would have understood the necessity of purging Stratholm, and so would have been able to support and restrain Arthas, rather than abandoning him to go off on his doomed one-man mission of vengence. (Or maybe she would have been driven mad by the act as well, and the Scourge would have triumphed).


 * If only... what if... you cannot have a good story without raising might-have-beens. And sign your posts.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:15, 8 January 2007 (EST)


 * Now even if she saw the effects of the plague, she met Medivh who convinced her to move west. That means that, even if she purged stratholme, she would gould west, while Arthas went to northrend. However, her relationship with the scourge might be different, still, as ragestorm pointed out you can't have a constructed argument with "ifs", besides the topic is quite irrelevant. -HEMA 11:40, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

Beating Mr. Stormrage
We all agree that Illidan briefly fought Arthas during Reign of Chaos, and it ended in them concluding that they was equals, a very short while later Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'Dan and we can all agree that it made him just a little bit stronger. Arthas was weakened throughout the Frozen Throne campaign, yet he managed to beat the crap out of Illidan at the end of the game. It was not like any of them needed motivation, as Arthas is in some way not in control of himself and the Lich King fought to save himself through Arthas, and Illidan is probably at some point gonna get butchered by Kil'Jaeden as he failed. Many will probably point out that Arthas got all his levels back just before the last mission, but as it says here on Wowwiki his powers was REPLENISHED wich means he didnt get stronger, just as strong as before. So can anyone tell me how Arthas could be win the fight? -Rovdyr 22:05, 30 January 2007 (EST)


 * My theory (which a number of other users disagree with for reasons completly nonsensical to me) is that it was totally mundane, and nothing to do with actual power- the strong winds around Icecrown slowed Illidan just enough to allow Arthas to close in. Had the wind been weaker, Illidan would have been farther aloft by the time Arthas brought his blade around. This is based on observation of the finale sequence. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:43, 30 January 2007 (EST)


 * The fate of the world determined by wind. Yay. ;-) Edit: I think it was just chance. Even equally skilled combatants got lucky or unlucky occasionally. Battle isn't a zero sum game. Sometimes, one person just wins. 09:37, 31 January 2007 (EST)


 * That's assuming 1) "replenished" was used literally, which I very much doubt. Most probably the simple fact that Arthas got most of the Lich King's attention at the moment was a huge power boost over his normal strength. 2) that the Lich King was Arthas only source of power. Again, unlikely. Of the two, Arthas and Illidan, Arthas seems more the type to work on personal power advancement. --Lilianne Blaze 01:09, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Illidan got owned. Period. He was such an inconvenience Arthas didn't even bother to finish him off properly.--Zexx 14:52, 31 January 2007 (EST)


 * Look, I know some users find it a personal offense at the suggestion they were evenly matched, but that's sure how it looked. Implausible, you say? if you look at a huge number of major battles in history, you'll find that they were settled by chance. Heck, the entire French Revolution would never have happened if some guy with the keys hadn't gone home early!
 * In short, it's perfectly likely it was chance. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:55, 31 January 2007 (EST)

I assumed you were already being sarcastic with your comment about the wind, so I made an appropriately sarcastic counter reply.

But in any case, I think Illidan was far outmatched. He only needed one blow to end it all, after suffering a great weakness while Illidan was flushed with newly bolstered power from the Eye. The Lich King chose his champion prudently -- this was after Saurfang spurned Ner'zhul's offer of course, but that is another story...--Zexx 02:10, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Well, i've thought it over and i think its because if Illidan had won, he would go kill Ner'Zhul and ending the scouge, and Blizzard would have to come up with something else to occupy the plaguelands, so they just made Illidan get pwned. -Rovdyr 16:21, 1 February 2007 (EST)

My thoughts on this are quite abstract, but here goes. It starts with arthas TELLING illidan about the skull, when it would and could quite obviously power up arthas just as easily. Along with everything weve known about arthas, this one action seems quite out of place. Why exactly would arthas turn down such a substanntial boost in power? He could quite easily have defeated tichondrius alone with it. Which brings me to the original point. Arthas's power gets RETURNED not IMPROVED. Illidan's has (apparently) been growing since he claimed the skull, AFTER the stalemate with arthas. So how is it possible? The skull of gul'dan decayed illidans powers. It makes perfect sense. Arthas wouldnt take it because he knew it would weaken him. Which allows for llidans power to decay, and for arthas to fight, and kill him at the end of the frozen throne.


 * Sign your posts, please. The Skull causing a decay in power is completely out of the question. Arthas's powers were, in the end, greater than normal, as the Lich King was allocating him all avaliable power to beat Illidan.
 * Arthas didn't claim the Skull for himself for one of two reasons: A) he didn't want Archimonde and Kil'jaeden to know what the Scourge was up to (they found out anyway) or B) the Skull would have had some adverse effect on Arthas, suggesting that Warlock magic is incompatable with necromancy. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:17, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Here's my theory on this. first of all, I believe Arthas told Illidan to take the skull for 2 reasons. 1) He sensed Illidan's lust for power and desire to prove himself to Malfurion, which he knew Illidan would believe killing Tichondrius would do. So he thought Illidan a perfect pawn. PLUS Arthas probably counted on the fact that Malfurion would reject Illidan for this, thus splintering the Night Elf forces more. 2) Arthas probably didn't want to become a demon. it's possible that consuming the skull would give Arthas more power and Gul'dan's Memories and stuff might make it so that Arthas might escape control of Ner'zhul. So Ner'zhul commanded he find someone else to do it. Illidan. And on the topic of their battle at end of TFT. Illidan was arrogant. Has always been arrogant. If you watch the fight, it looks as if the wind, as Rage suggested, may have had something to do with it. But I think it's also because Illidan left himself wide open, and Arthas took advantage of it. Plus Arthas probably did receive slight power increases from Ner'zhul. And that's my 2 cents on this topic. ~Nicolai_Stormrage~

There's something that should also be considered. The last fight between them was blade-to-blade, with no magic involved. So perhaps it wasn't that Arthas was more powerful than him, but that he was simply the better swordsman. And it's true, that in any fight, all it takes is one mistake. --Austin P 07:47, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

"I'm directing you all the power I can spare" Ner'zhul said something among those lines, to which Arthas replies "My powers are replenished" right? That should mean Ner'Zhul gave him as much power as he dared.. Also noteable is that those events occurred alot longer after the first battle between Arthas and Illidan, and that Arthas may have improved a whole lot more then Illidan. And the Eye had powers of it's own, as far as I understood it, it didn't supplement the natural fighting skills of the person owning it.. My first post btw :) Holy Orders 09:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe the closer Death Knight Arthas is to Ice Crown and the Frozen Throne, the stronger he passively becomes. It makes sense considering the Frozen Throne was the source of his powers. Ner'Zhul essentially replenished his powers back to Level 10 Death Knight and the passive bonus being nearby Frozen Throne gave him the power to win. Also, Illidan have been fighting for a longer extended period, having to dodge Maiev immidiately after Hjyal, fighting Tyrande and Malfurion's forces, saving Tyrande, capture by Maiev, rescued by Kael and Vash, fighting Magtheridon, confronted by Kil'Jaeden, then Northrend. Arthas on the other hand had plenty of slack time, having done absolutely nothing in Kalimdor other than saying "Hi" to Mister Stormrage, coming home and saying "Yo, Wassap" to the Dreadlords, escaping Sylvanas, and then Northrend. Illidan would have been exhausted and fatigue while Arthas would be significantly less so. --Invin Dranoel 08:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

None of you apart from Nicolai_Stormrage seem to have looked very closely at the cinematic: Arthas and Illidan start fighting, swords clash a few times, and Illidan jumps into the air, leaving himself wide-open; he practically lands on Arthas's sword owing to effecient timing on the part of Arthas, who drives his blade upwards. Nothing to do with power or the elements. Just to do with one of them being that split-second faster than the other Drahauk 22:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is easy to tell; all you have to do is look at the fight. Arthas might have been weaker, but Illidan's boost with the Skull of Gul'dan basically enhanced him magically, not physically, and Illidan never used magic. When Illidan lifted off the ground, he tried to land, but got caught on an updraft. No matter how good you are, that is an obvious opening since Illidan would be trying to balance himself. - Deathdealer Shadowsong

Arthas the Tool
There is no logical way that the statement about the current state of Arthas and Nerzhul is correct, Nerzhul is obviously the dominant character, why would he fuze with Arthas, blending the two when he's an evil mastermind? Surely he would take everything for himself. Mannerheim


 * Signyour posts, properly, please. Metzen himself confirmed what's happened to them. Also Ner'zhul was willing to do anything to be free of that crystal, including merging himself with someone else to do it. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:59, 2 February 2007 (EST)


 * Actually, there are two possible explanations. 1) What if a 50/50 merger was the only way to get out of the crystal? 2) Consider that the Lich King could be grooming / melding / corrupting Arthas for the whole time to be just the perfect partner / successor. When the two would think / feel / act the same way, lack of a dominant party ceases to be a problem. Actually, it's even possible the Lich King was willing to take the equal, or even back-seat, position. --Lilianne Blaze 00:58, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * Also, consider that Illidan's attack is said to have weakened the Frozen Throne/Nerzhul, in more than a few sources. It may have been a matter of Nerzhul slipping away, so he could either bite the bullet and take an equal merger with Arthas in order to survive and gather his power back into himself, or cease to be entirely. I know it's just wild speculation, but for fanwanking it works pretty well; it fits the established sources (in game dialogue, manual material, in-WoW history of the FT campaign, and Metzen's explanation). For the record, I do think his original plan was to assume control of Arthas (sometime after the Human campaign of War3), but that it was put on hold (throughout War3) due to Arthas' effectiveness as a general. Things just got out of hand for Nerzhul after that. --WoWwiki1183 22:53, 18 February 2007 (EST)


 * We're also forgetting the psycho-sexual angle here. Obviously, Frostmourne is a phallic instrument symbolizing castration of the Lich King by Kil'jaeden. Arthas, the sexually confused "sad young man" as portrayed in the avante garde films of the 50s and 60s, must champion his masculinity by both taking hold of the penis-symbol Frostomourne and killing his father in an oedipal rage. The castrated Lich King and the liberated Arthas then merge in a sexual union where Arthas wears the embodiment of the Lich King and therefore "enters" him, fulfilling and embracing the Lich King's castration. ~


 * But seriously, Metzen made it pretty clear: the two are "merged," which indicates that neither is dominant, and that they are in essence a new being. 23:58, 18 February 2007 (EST)


 * Or easier put, simply two sprits in the same body.. I know there are plenty of people who take "Now we are one" too litterally and forget they said "we'" too, and that they still talk with a twin voice to this day. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 04:44, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Just a fun thing...
Look:

WoW=Starwars Knight's of the Silver Hand (Is it called that? Paladin Order?)=Jedi Order Arthas Menethil (His father was a king)=Anakin Skywalker (His father was the Force) Uther Lightbringer (Arthas mentor?)=Obi-Wan Kenobi (Anakins mentor) The Holy Light=The Force

Arthas (Anakin) was young and unexperienced, bla bla bla... But he was very good for his age...

At last he turned evil, I can't explain everything here... If you look in the WoW lore about Arthas and the Starwars lore about Anakin I think you will find many simalirities (does it spell like that?.

So, please write comments :)

--Oscararon 15:18, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * If you examine the Star Wars films in full, you will find that they conform to traditional mythological tales of heroes, as researched and laid out in Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces, which George Lucas has stated (dozens of times) is the framework of both Anakin and Luke Skywalker. Hence, the stories of Arthas, Anakin, and countless other heroes will have close parallels. Arthas can also be seen as a fusion of King Arthur and Mordred from the Pendragon mythos. Another interpretation is that Arthas is based upon Zeus and Cronus, killing and supplanting his father to become the complete opposite. If one ignores the familial relationship, Arthas is also similar to Set, stealing the kingdom of a family member, who is opposed Isis (personfied here as Jaina, Uther, and Sylvanas).
 * In short: no, World of Warcraft has nothing directly to do with Star Wars.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:26, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * Except the Dwarven Flying Machine. "They came from... behind!" 22:27, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * (Original comments removed. Unbefitting.) 23:42, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * Montag! it is unbefitting of an admin to engage in such innuendoes. Especially when their relevence to the discussion is not entirely clear.
 * Also, this is an encyclopedia, not a forum, so any continuation should be held on a usertalk. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:28, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * You're right. That's out of line. ::Takes off smartass hat. Puts on admin hat.:: 23:42, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * Rage's points hold -- the relevance between Star Wars lore and Warcraft lore is too vague to be considered beyond the normal archetypal similarities that run through all adventure literature. Without more supportive evidence, the comparison is fleeting at best. 23:42, 8 March 2007 (EST)


 * Granted the generalization between WoW and Star Wars is pretty, well, general, the latest from Penny Arcade makes finding this 'talk' rather amusing: Rigorous Scholarship 00:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Are there any Monkey Island references in WoW? --Austin P 06:35, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Ever noticed how Magtheridon and LeChuck(in Curse) sound exactly the same? --Raze 00:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Not really. Maggy's voice is very deep and gutteral, while Lechuck's is much high pitched with that reverb effect. --Austin P 14:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Illidan vs. Arthas CG
I don't know what blizzard were thinking when they directed the last battle bewteen Illidan and Arthas. It was cool, and was sort of a tribute to olden-style samurai fights but c'mon! That should have been CG! I really, really hope that in a future WoW Expansion introduction sequence (obviously, the Northrend one) they have a flashback to when Arthas and Illidan were fighting. Similar to the beginning of the Burning Crusade one, where is showed the Dark Portal and Illidan was talking. Then it went to a couple of shots of Draenei and BEs, then some cool battle scenes. Then returned to Illidan. So this one would start off with Arthas and Illidan sword-fighting. Arthas would win and it would show him become the lich king (very briefly). Then we'd see some other new features the expansion brings. AND THEN! Right at the end, Arthas would do a badass "you are not prepared" thing except hopefully different. That would be mad. Maarz 22:18, 9 March 2007 (EST)


 * It was going to be, but they ran out of time. They didn't have time to finish it, so they just made that.

Karazhan
Ok...so there is a new inhabitant in Karazhan...who is it?

Well at first I thought of Kel'Thuzad, he is a wizard and would surely be interested in the magics of the tower, however, he is "locked" up in Naxxramas

So...who can it be? What about the new Arthas/Lich King? It was speculated that they would be implented in the near future...well it seems we know where. The new lich king is surely in the position to do such things, he now has a pair of feet, besides is there any reason he would want to remain in northrend? The (probably) power hungry lich king would certainly be interested in the tower's magics. Besides, it means he can increase the size of his lands...and thus his influence.

Any ideas? -HEMA 11:57, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


 * It cannot be anyone loyal to the Scourge, aince Prince Malchezzar, as a Man'ari, is highly unlikely to work with them. It's more likely that Malchezzar works for the Legion, answering to Mephistroth or Kil'jaeden. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:50, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Hmm...that seems like a good argument, we know however that the lich king is the master of deceit...he could very well be employing a man'ari. However, that makes this theory more of a speculation than an educated guess...guess we'll have to wait and see then
 * --HEMA 18:07, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Eyes?
Anyone find it weird that you never see Arthas' eyes in the cinematics ( except for, like, five seconds after he puts the Helm of Domination on and when he's lounging out on Icecrown )? All you see is these sunken pits or whatever. --Super Bhaal 16:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What about the cover art?Baggins 16:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Counts, but not really. My guess is that the guys in charge of cinematics argued about his eyes or something, but it's still weird.  --Super Bhaal 17:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * His model has eyes too... So no clue.Baggins 17:26, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You don't see his eyes in the first cinematic because of the hood, underlying the shadow that has taken his soul. When he throws back the hood, the camera is too far away from his head to see the eyes. In the second one he appears in, he's viewed from a distance- even when he's close to the camera, his back is turned, until the dramatic moment he puts on the helm. There's no reason we never see his eyes apart from camera angles. -_ Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 17:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I reckon he has Aqua eyes (greenish blue). Two reasons support my theory. 1st in the opening cinamatic of Rein of Chaos Teraner' eyes have that color and generaly people get most of there appearances from there parents. Second in the final cut scene of Frozen Throne his eyes glow that color.--The last Alterac 03:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Try looking at the human box for the initial release of RoC. Arthas's eyes are very clearly seen. Note also that while genes are a determining factor in eye color, parents' eyes aren't always a reliable indication. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Eyes can also change shades with age, or due to stress or trauma.Baggins 04:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Anakin Skywalker's eyes, for example. ;P --

Arthas Lich King before fusion with Ner'zhul?
If you take a closer look at the table in the bottom. It says that Ner'zhul (alone) preceded Arthas as Lich King, then Arthas took the position as Lich King and after that was succeeded by Ner'zhul (jointly). When was that true? From what i know Ner'zhul was Lich King since the beginning until Arthas fused with him into a single entity (which is referred to in the table as Ner'zhul (jointly)). Arthas was never Lich King alone, as far as i know and Ner'zhul was and is still is Lich King (recently with Arthas). Does anyone agree with me? Aboodz 10:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That should clear it up.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Ummmmmm, WHATS WITH THE VOICE???
Yeah ummm. I have noticed that Several Bosses from the Original Warcraft three game (Illidan, Akama, Keal' Thas, and I am not sure but maybe Archimonde) that they dont sound like they did from that game. I mean, if you've watched the WOTLK Trailer, you'd notice he sounds nothing like himself from W3. So, is it like, they were old and died? Or fired?

---Quinn' Tonstern
 * They probably just chose not to work on those respective projects. And Arthas sounded like a prick, anyway. :P --Sky (t · c · w) 00:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought they were the same actors. I figured 6 years and/or different recording processes made them sound different. --Raze 00:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Different voice actors, as well as the fact Arthas' body ( and despite his semi-undead state, his voice box )  aged, as well as his merge with Ner'zhul.  --Super Bhaal 01:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought that in the Kel'Thuzad encounter in Naxx, Arthas' voice was the same in WC III, although fused with Ner'zhul. The voice in the WOtLK trailer was indeed very disapointing though

I think they're different actors. Matthew Yang King, who was the voice of Illidan in W3 and W3: FT, was replaced in WoW. He did not sign onto WoW because of guild issues and as a personal moral choice. Not sure about the others, but it seems clear Arthas was replaced too. He had a much deeper and stronger voice. --- Zexx 15:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. IRL reason would be a change of Voice Actors. 6 years does matter. Voice Actor might have other commitments. In Game Lore reason would probably be because of the fusion. (On the side note, and Illidan sounded pretty good but Arthas was kind of lacking something. I just can't put my finger on what it is.) --Invin Dranoel 08:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The badass scratchy sound heard when he put the Helm of Domination on? --Super Bhaal 11:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't like his new voice personally. It sounds too generic. Illidan's voice sounded mostly the same, just a little bit deeper.

Out of curiosity, what moral reasons could a person have for not choosing to voiceact on a computer game? (That whole addiction controversity aside) --Austin P 14:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember the exact details, but Mr. Yang King belongs to a certain guild of voice actors, and there were some contractual issues regarding him coming back. It was something about the terms, and he felt that they were morally unsatisfactory, so he chose not to take Blizzard's offer. --- Zexx 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Arthas in WoW
This is what I think Arthas could look like in WoW: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

Looks kind of scrawny. --The last Alterac 05:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 *  And this matters because...? We have never displayed fan-made models in articles, in fact, we still have lengthy arguments over Blizzard-approved fanart! -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Exuse Ragestorm's rudeness. ;) Whilst I applaud your skill in making a guy who looks very much like Arthas, you may instead have to put it on one of your user pages if you want it shown. I've removed the other fan depiction of Arthas from the page for now. --

Ah, ok good. because before there was another fan-made picture of Arthas so I decided to make my own, well... thanks anyway. :D And Ragestorm... please do not use Blood Rage, that will make you... go in Berserker stance. ;) --Oscararon 12:36, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, that one's reserved for blatant NPOV violators. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Apparently he's nominated for deletion over at Wikipedia along with Thrall. Figured I'd throw that out there if anyone wanted to salvage either article as the question at hand is not notability but article quality from an "IRL" encyclopedia standpoint. Nunuka 00:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Picture
I asked this regarding the picture for Kel'Thuzad, and I figured I'd bring it up here, too. Is there an offical source that says that picture from the WC3 manual/box is actually Arthas, and not a random human paladin? Most naturally assume it is, as they assume the elf is Tyrande and the lich is Kel'Thuzad, but the orc is just a random orc(doesn't look a thing like Grom or Thrall, and who else would it be?)), so I'm curious as to whether there's a source claiming that the young man is Arthas and the withered pale version is him as a death knight and not a random death knight.Tweak the Whacked 23:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It is probably Grom look at his chin its black he had a his jaw tattooed black
 * and if you compare the picture to the one of Grom on the front of the rise of the horde you can see other similarity's--Vrall 21:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So basically, you're suggesting that instead of Arthas, the picture is of some other random human paladin that also had the same facial features and long blonde hair, and another death knight who also has the same face as Arthas and long gray hair? Is that what you're suggesting? Because if that is what you're suggesting, then it seems like you're just splitting hairs because Blizzard hasn't specifically SAID that a picture that looks like Arthas IS Arthas -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)