Talk:Comparison of Aldor and Scryer rewards

Noob alert?
Hmm i am a noob, i chose Aldor without checking the reward. Now I want to switch to Scryers. Does anyone know any effective way to gain back the rep. and also allow you to change side again? Please advice.

Check out the individual pages on Aldor and Scryer factions. There is detailed information on how to gain reputation with each faction, even if you are already hated. :)


 * There is a quest that is found in the Lower city, that gets you to collect basilisk eyes. Personally for me (Aldor) the quests says it's Scryer rep - so I'd figure that it says quite the opposite if you are Scryer :) You need to collect 8 Eyes for each hand in, don't know how much rep for the hand in though :)--imz1 02:31, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Rep with both?
Is there any information up about how to get rep with both (for the sake of obtaining both patterns, not both at the same time) or even if it is possible? --Eltari 22:42, 15 January 2007 (EST)
 * I don't believe so. Whenever you gain rep with one you lose rep with the other. Since your in Shattrah (sp) no one can attack you - or vica versa.
 * Actually, you should be able to switch. There's a questgiver for either side that will remain friendly to you in Shattrath.  I forget their names, but the Scryers one is a BE hanging out with an Ethereal, memory serves nearby the Arrakoa tree-huts.  She has you gather basilisk eyes.  The Aldor one is at that clinic you should've seen on the tour.  She has you gather spider venom glands. --Maenos 08:03, 16 January 2007 (EST)
 * They're both on the tour, actually, Aldor is the clinic lady, and Scryer is the one that says "I always watch what I say, I'm a Scryer" or something along those lines. --Gates 00:12, 21 January 2007 (EST)
 * Found the info I was after. It is on the Aldor and Scryer pages. You won't be able to get reputation with both at the same time, but it should be possible to get one then the other in order to pick up both patterns. (Check this out Tekkub, it is signature) --Eltari 22:49, 21 January 2007 (EST)
 * Patch 2.0.6 - "Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines following the Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City." Ektoric 21:15, 23 January 2007 (EST)
 * I was under the impression this referred to the fact that Khadgar gave you both "go talk to the Aldor/Scryers" quests after choosing one. Has anyone verified whether or not the change affects these two questgivers as well?   18:22, 25 January 2007 (EST)
 * I went back and checked last night. Even though I went Aldor and am now Hated with the Scryers, I can still get a Scryer quest from Arcanist Adyria.  Looks like they've set this up similarly to the Booty Bay vs. Bloodsail Buccaneers choice.   11:55, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Why is "Tank" listed for Aldor?

 * Why is "Tank" listed for Aldor? I'd say a tank would lean more toward the Scryers.
 * Because the Aldor Plate piece provides Dodge, more Stamina and more Defense, whereas the Scryer Plate item provides Agility. Seems to me that Scryers is aimed at DPS plate wearers and Aldor is aimed at tanking plate wearers, no?  There's a reason the word "generalizations" was used, not everyone will agree.  And sign your posts damnit!   00:19, 18 January 2007 (EST)
 * Personal opinion obviously, but I would say that ignoring professions Aldor is the clear choice for Tank AND DPS warriors.Vindicator's Brand, good warrior tanking of DPS weapon vs Retainer's Blade, not so hot. Lightwarden's Band and Vindicator's Hauberk, one good for tanks one good for DPS vs Gauntlets of the Chosen, mediocre for both and terrible for PvP. Shoulder enchants I would choose the aldor one for both tanks and DPS though for DPS wether you prefer more crit or more AP depends more on the gear you have at the time.Darbad
 * It kind of depends on what your in-game goals are. If you're raiding and are in a semi-organized guild then you really shouldn't focus on the armor/weapon rewards or the professions.  The armor and weapons are easily replaced by raid gear and your guild should be splitting factions intelligently to make sure that all the craftable items can be made.  The only thing that can't really be replaced are the shoulder enchants.  For a tank I'd go with the Aldor.   Ailethon
 * I agree with all of your statements, Ailethon, except your conclusion. Ignoring rewards and professions, I'd lean toward the Scryers' inscriptions based totally on the higher Defense.--Fantastik 15:07, 27 January 2007 (EST)
 * But Defense is only more useful than Dodge, if you haven't reached 490 Defense yet (or 415 for Druids). Since it's pretty easy to reach that, and since Dodge gives more migitation than Defense after that, the Dodge enchant is better. Only problem I notice on my server is that all Blacksmiths are going Aldor, and Arcane Resist gear is incredibly rare.--Thels 12:16, 23 February 2007 (CEST)

Forget about the armor pieces...
As a tank, I reallly didn't consider the armor pieces at all when making my choice. The simple reality is that for most people, you will be replacing your gear with epic equipment at some point, so these rep rewards should have little impact on your choice. Your two main considerations should be your professions, and your desire for the sholder enchants. If professions are more important to you, then choose the faction with the better recipies. If the sholder enchants are more important, choose the faction that has the ones that you prefer. It's a tough choice, and there are a lot of factors to consider, not just the armor pieces. Heck, neither of the plate armor pieces has any sockets - so while they are 'OK' they are nothing special.

In the end, while the sholder enchants are nice, they aren't "OMG!" nice. With the new formulas, either one will work fine for a tank since a couple points of +def isn't going to make or break your gear layout. Remember, while the Altor enchants have less +def than the Scryer enchants, keep in mind you will also have 'resilliance' on your gear which will augment your ability to reduce your chance to be crit. With this in mind, you may want to stack on a bit more +dodge with the Aldor enchants.

ALDOR: At level 70, the +15 dodge will only give an extra +0.8% dodge, and the +10 DEF will only provide 4.1 points of defense.

SCRYER: At level 70, the +10 dodge will only give an extra +0.5% dodge, and the +15 DEF will only provide 6.25 points of defense.

In the end, tanks really don't get that great an enchant. Heck, one could say these enchants are on par with the ZG enchants. (although the ZG enchants are for leg/head)

So if we eliminate the armor pieces and ignore the profession recipes, you are just left with the enchants. In this case I would tend to agree that the Aldor enchants are just a wee bit better overall. However, don't let that be the deciding factor unless you are stuck with gathering professions and/or alchemy and engineering. Take a close look at the profession recipes before you decide. --Savant 06:57, 18 January 2007 (EST)

What you're not taking into account is the 490 cap on defense. After which the dodge becomes much more valuable. I'd much rather have the +dodge since hitting 490 defense is panifully easy. --jon3k


 * Heck, the argument can't even really be made for crafters. In most cases all that's provided are resistance gear.  For these players any endgame guild will want both sets eventually.  The shoulder enchants are both comparable, yes.  The Blue versions contain the same stats with slightly different value.  It seems that the Aldor stats are weighted slightly towards PvE and Scryer towards PvP, but not by enough that it is really a deciding factor.
 * Considering that there are NPCs in the Lower City with repeatables that allow you to change your choice, I think it's likely that most players will look at the equipment rewards against their current gear when they choose. Then later down the road, when bored at 70, they might switch over after getting full rep with their faction so they can get the other patterns, either for their guild or for their own profits in trade.  There will probably be a decent number of players that just ignore the whole choice until their raiding guild needs crafters of certain resistance gears.  07:30, 18 January 2007 (EST)


 * +AP has some nice benefits for Shamanistic Rage as well as scaling the rogue Eviscerate, warrior Bloodlust, and other stuff.  is why i took Aldor anyway.  08:14, 18 January 2007 (EST)
 * Glyphs are the replacement for the ZG enchants btw : http://www.thottbot.net/?i=55138 11:05, 18 January 2007 (EST)


 * 4.1 defense (*.04) = .1% dodge/parry/miss, or .3% damage avoidance. 6.25 defense = .25% dodge/parry/miss, or .75% avoidance. With the dodge values you listed, you should be seeing +1.1% damage avoidance from the Alder enchant, and 1.25% damage avoidance from the Scyer enchant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would appear that Scyer gives just a slight edge to tanks based on the enchant alone.--ThatRickGuy 12:36, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Scryer rewards are effective for pve dmg casters as well.
I disagree with the idea that Aldor are necessarily more pve oriented. The Scryer's Bloodgem alone is an awesome pve trinket, especially for a warlock. 35 spell hit is at least +3% at 70; combined with the ToEP effect and Neth's Tear in your other trinket slot you would be adding impressive raid abilities to two of the more underused slots.

Heck, I'm picking Scryer just for that one item, although as a destruction Lock the shoulder enchants are equally suited to me.


 * It's a nice trinket, but there are numerous variations on the ToEP theme throughout Outland, almost all of them with high hit or crit ratings added.


 * It's actually said SLIGHT PVP basis, thanks to the crit rating shoulder enchant ;) --imz1 02:35, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Scryer vs Aldor enchants for casters
For classes/specs (like Affliction Warlocks, Shadow Priests, etc.) who aren't crit based Aldor's enchants are better for PvE and PvP I would changing the text of "Players seeking PvE shoulder enchants" and "Players seeking PvP shoulder enchants" to something more general like "+Damage Primary,+crit secondary" for Aldor and the reverse for Scryers. Just a thought.--Caidh 12:57, 19 January 2007 (EST)


 * They are generalizations for a reason. There's no way that everyone will agree on even the broad generalizations, let alone the specifics.  That's what the talk page is here for, for everyone to express their thoughts on which faction to choose.  The selections laid out in that table are just a mini guide, every player should look at all the items and make their own choice.   12:48, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Craft Recipes

 * I am not quite sure about this, but I think the Tailor-Recipes are mixed up

Aldoris healing, if ur tailor u get healing receipt and not spell dmg. Also u get a nice healing staff(200+ healing i think) and stuff like that. In Scryer you get spell dmg on the tailor receipts so i think you messed this up


 * Uh, these were fixed two days before you posted this... and why can't people sign their posts here? *stab*   13:00, 20 January 2007 (EST)


 * Why on earth is there only one alchemy recipe and it's on the Scryer side?!?! I'm a DPS Hunter and everything else tells me I should be joining Aldor except for this lameness.  Does anybody know if there will be other alchemy recipes eventually?  Or is this IT?  If so, it's totally lame... :Lynn
 * It's only one alchemy recipe. I doubt you'll die for it.--Sky 01:05, 23 January 2007 (EST)
 * I want it all... I want it all... and I want it now!


 * It says on this page that the aldor jewelcrafting trainer has recipes not available at the faction trainers in Thrallmar/Honors Hold. Can this be confirmed?  I've looked at several listings of jewelcrafting recipes, and find none that are only available from the aldor jewelcraft trainer in Shattrath City.
 * I have removed the portion of the page saying the aldor jewelcrafting trainer has recipes not available at the faction trainers.

Concerning Healers (Paladins)
The recommended faction for healers is listed as the Scryers. This seems to be solely based on the rather nice Staff available, but do remember not all healing classes can uses staves - ie. Paladins. For a Paladin who wishes to focus on Healing, there does not appear to be any benefit to choosing Scryers, as the inscriptions are fairly balanced in terms of what a good Healerdin needs. --Alextrasza 13:05, 20 January 2007 (GMT)


 * Aye, both factions are fairly balanced for healers. The deciding factor for me was the staff, it has pure healing where all the other items are heal and damage, and thus lower values for healing.  Thanks for pointing out that paladins can't use staffs, I didn't know that for one (I'm a hunter, everything has potential for me :)   13:03, 20 January 2007 (EST)


 * So, safe to swap 'Healers' under Aldor for something like "Staff wielding healers" and adding "Paladins" to the Aldor list (in the executive summary). --Drolfeir 01:18, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * Not really. In my opinion there is not much that paladins need from Aldor either. The only thing is that the shoulder enchants have more +healing, but Scryers have +healing (and damage) on their epic ring... in the end it is all up to each paladins individual preference, and, if they are crafters, if they want the plans for arcane or fire resistance. I think I'm going to go Scryers myself. --Efreeti 07:46, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * I concur, I am stumped as to which to choose, for a paladin the factions are very balanced. For RP reasons I might choose the Aldor, but my final choice will probably be made by guild needs for Blacksmithing, we want to make sure we have at least one person of each crafter type allied with both factions so we can make all the resistance gear.
 * Possibly change "Healers" to "Staff wielding Healers" or "Healers except Paladins" and put Paladins in both columns ? --Alextrasza 09:00, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * Personally unless you're not going to raid in this game it's a rather bad choice to go Scyer for a rare healing staff. As a Druid, I went with Aldor because + Healing is better than mana p/5s.  If you don't want to raid sure, Scryer has a few nice pieces of gear for Paladin/Priest/Druid, but any raider is pretty much better served going Aldor for the enchants. Surrogate 15:07, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * The way i see it, there are only four items that make the deciding factor for a Paladin. Based on what has already been said to which i agree, The only weapon you can use is the sword and you would hope to get faster one in my opinon for faster procs on your judgemnts so i threw it out of the equation and the shoulders are minor in there consern to me. Also i am an Alch/herb but not conserned about the firepwr potion enough to make my call solely on that.


 * Looking at it this way it appears to me that Aldor is balanced well for Ret and Proc but Scryer is better for Holy Spec counting on the Crit chance to reduce Mana Consumption with Ilumination.

Aldor Lightwarding Band        (finger) +18 agil +27 stam & atk pwr 38 Medalion of Lightbearer  (neck) +16 stam +28 int +6 Mana 5 secs or Scryer Bloodgem                 (trinket) spell hit +32 Spell dam +150 & heal 280 Seer's Signet            (finger) +22 stam Spell crit +11 Dmg / Heal spells +33


 * That leaves me easily chosing Aldor exept for the fact that now i am tempted to respec holy all that extra crit looks nice :) hope this helps... you helped me an allowed me to simplify a otherwise daunting decision
 * ~Jessitin~


 * How about for ret paladins. on the main page it lists us under scryer. but the poster above said aldor is balanced for ret paladins, so which one should i choose if i was a ret paladin?
 * ~Spectrezh


 * You should look at all the items and make your own choice. This isn't here to give you an answer, it's to help you find your own.   18:12, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Extremely Misleading..
Everything I've read in WoWWiki so far has been good reliable information. Fact, not opinion. This article has upset me greatly because I accepted the author's opinion as reliable fact. I know, it's my own fault, but can you blame me? Everything else on this site is true, why shouldn't this be?

I made the mistake of choosing to raise rep with the Scryers over the Aldor after reading this page, thinking that although the Aldor have spellthread, the Scryers would have more items for healers. This is absolutely NOT true, except for the one rare staff. Now, I have to undo the reputation that I have gained/lost to switch my faction favor over from Scryer to Aldor, which is a pain.

Anyone who reads this article, please don't make the same mistake I did. Look at ALL the items, and think LONG-TERM. Don't follow this article.

~RavenDT


 * 'Author' being extremely plural of course. You started off well, with reasonable comments, but finishing off with "Don't follow this article" was just stupid. If you think something is wrong or misleading, fix it! When an article is wrong one day it should mean that by the next day it is no longer wrong :) Anyway, I'm going to clarify the healing thing now. 05:27, 22 January 2007 (EST)


 * In the Quick Summary it says, more than once, that you should look at all the items before you make your choice. This article's intent is to provide a side by side comparison of the items both factions provide.  If it's intent was to only make generalizations of which groups would pick which faction it would only have that first section.  And if that were the case this article would truly suck.   10:42, 22 January 2007 (EST)


 * As Tekkub says, you need to go through this yourself and gear up according to your own gear plan. Look, there are some pretty complex questions to look at. For that matter, the number of rewards that go to any particular class is pretty low. As a raider myself, the basic gear doesn't impress me since I'll get better loot very quickly out of the raid instances. Any competent guild will have crafters in each faction. So for me, it's the shoulder enchants. Is that something so dire that you'd get worked up over it?


 * Non-raiders may or may not find better loot in the instances or out of the PVP rewards. You should spend an afternoon with thottbot or one of its ilk and plan precisely what gear you'll want in each slot. The results may surprise you-- seemingly great items suddenly lose their luster when there's a nearly-as-good equivalent that's much easier to get and a far-better item that you can work towards. Not knowing your class, build, playstyle or skill I have no idea what you in particular would benefit from. Neither do the contributors who wrote this article, which is why their generalizations are salted so heavily with disclaimers.


 * Chrazriit 06:35, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Enhancement Spec Shaman
Im just gonna go in to 100% noob mode and ask: Does Enhancement Shaman count as "Damage dealing Warriors and Paladins" in Scryers -- 17:19, 23 January 2007 (EST)


 * The page has changed since then... but it's safe to say based on the shoulder inscriptions and weapons available that an enhancement shaman is better served by the Scryers. The Aldor's epic sword does us no good. The epic dagger would be an acceptable offhand for a enhance shaman. The cheap shoulder enchant is crit, and the expensive one is more crit than AP. Enhance shamans already get more AP from every crit, so (imho) the choice is clear, go for more crit. The real struggle I would see is for an elemental shaman.. the Aldor provide a great staff for that build and there are other goodies on both side. The last thing to mention -- enh-shamans almost always have to heal at some point, so if you go with scryers you'll have access to their healing staff before any raid leader is going to give you something better for your backup armor set. That's how I made my choice: alchemy recipe, dagger, crit to shoulders, leather pants with AP; all these completely outweigh the one item Aldor offers enhance, the rare ring with 38 AP. --Drolfeir 10:12, 22 February 2007 (EST)

Changes with 2.0.6
Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines following the Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City. from Blizzard Patch Notes in the Bug Fixes section. dparvin 08:55 PM (MST) 1/23/2007.


 * This only means that Khadgar doesn't offer the other allegiance quest after you sign on with one faction, correct? I know for a fact that you can still get the quest from the Scryer in the Lower City after you swear allegiance to Aldor.--Scrotch 21:02, 24 January 2007 (EST)


 * Yea the problem was after you chose the side you wanted both quests were offered. Naturally one would accept both and run onto a tier they were not welcome on.  At least these hostile NPCs don't kill you...   01:30, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Guild and table updates
I added (back) a tidbit about what to choose as different guilds following some discussion on IRC. It appears a reasonable comment. Also, I edited the table a bit to make it clearer that it's a hard choice for magic damage dealers, so LOOK AT THE ITEMS. 08:11, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Feral Druids are Aldor
I disagree with Feral Druids being listed Scryers, or Druids in general for that matter.

Aldor provides more + healing and more spell-damage for Moonkin, as well as Int across the board which increases Moonkin mana regen and spell damage. The exception is Scryer's Bloodgem. Seer's Signet and Medallion of the Lightbearer are both great exalted rewards. With that said, Moonkins have aggro issues currently. So crits and other forms of burst damage are not something a Moonkin is really after. Moonkins are looking for more spell-damage and regen so that they can have controlled DPS for longer periods of time while providing utility such as Insect Swarm and Fairie Fire, as well as the occasional de-curse or heal. Aldor rewards deliver this.

In PVP this is different, of course, with burst damage being king. Aldor items are still superior in that they provide this while maintaining the Int and spell-damage that a Moonkin also wants. This provides great across the board stat increase and viability with very very little sacrifice.

Aldor provides this as well for Restos which want + healing, not crit, Regrowth is already at a huge crit chance so making it larger base is what most focus on. Hand of Eternity, a boe crafted mace, along with a good offhand such as Windcaller's Orb from Cen Ex rep will replace Seer's Cane. With more + healing in Aldor otherwise, once again Aldor is a better choice.

As for Ferals, there is more Dodge, Agility, Stamina and AP. The Scryers is more focused on Crit damage which is inferior to a Cat druid as they gain DPS mostly through white damage - base increase. This can bee seen using Tangedyn's cat DPS calculator http://tangedyn.9tribes.net/cat-dps/catdps-calc/

Bears gain more dodge from agility as well, it is 1% dodge per 14.5 agility now. This is also not to mention the other benefits of agility, such as 2 AC per point and added crit etc, as opposed to simple +crit. Dodge is the bear form's new mitigation. Bear dodge will be approaching 40% at level 70. To coincide with this there are not major AC leather items in the tradition of MBB or GST. As a result, and with the change of the damage reduction formulae, bears AC% increase on items has been increased as well as the provision for agility increasing dodge substantially as mentioned above. So, bears need the stamina, and the agility to squeeze out the extra AC and dodge.

Another thing to consider are the Vindicator's Armor Kits from Aldor. Druids will be approaching non crit status speced with SOTF as bears and with more defense leather and defense items such as these shoulder enchants and the Aldor Vindicator's Armor Kits. SOTF makes this feasible and small pushes in stats such as these may push a tanking Druid into that status.

If one is approaching extremely high AP or extremely high AC then they may reconsider in order to gain that extra 0.2% crit. By the time this happens, it will be too late and I wouldn't doubt that there would be a new shoulder enchant that would make a switch an exercise rather than a reward.

In the end it is very slight, but is still there, and the shoulder enchants WILL be what we are ultimately aligned for as we progress past these rewards' viability. With current itemizaton in game, Aldor makes more sense for all Druids.

-Dejablue, Dalvengyr


 * I have to agree with the Melee/Tank Enchants part, but other than that, both factions have quality gear for druids, but nothing that cann't be easily changed by instance loot. IMHO Feral druids will be Aldor (enchants, not gear), while Healers will stay Scryer (early gear, later enchants), dunno for sure about Moonkins (looks like Aldor is best for Casters).--Avanmilton 08:57, 25 January 2007 (EST)


 * Ok first off, you spent long paragraphs discussing moonkin and healing itemization, which has nothing to do with ferals.
 * Some great points about itemization and mitigation, but consider this. Most of the items will quickly be replaced through instance runs, and certainly raiding. For a raider, only the recipes and inscriptions are really at issue.
 * Tank Inscription: 15 Dodge Rating / 10 Defense Rating vs 10 Dodge Rating / 15 Defense Rating. As you correctly point out, Druids get their dodge from agility. I'd like to run an analysis of overall mitigation, but I don't have numbers for the reduced crit % on 73 mobs hitting someone with +defense gear.
 * Melee DPS Inscription: 30 AP / 10 Crit vs 20 AP / 15 Crit. This is more clear-cut. A true feral druid will look at the whole picture and how it relates to their DPS. First, a cat calculator is risky to use because you're making assumptions about base DPS. As you point out, when your DPS is low, AP is more important. When it's high, crit is. However, your AP will already be very strong due to your Strength formula. 4 strength (about 10AP) is much "cheaper" than 5 crit rating in terms of druid itemization.
 * Your analysis is strong, and honestly I came in certain that defense was better until I really ran the numbers (at least those that are available). You're right-- ultimately better enchants will come along. In the meantime, though, I'd say that for the casual cat or raiding bear, go Aldor. For the raiding cat or casual bear, go scryers, but the difference is very minor.
 * Chrazriit 10:35, 13 February 2007 (EST)
 * Defense affects Block chance (Druids can't block), Parry chance (Druids can't parry), chance to get critted (Druids can reduce this chance by 3%. It should be pretty easy to negate the last 2.6% through Defense on gear, so anything more is useless), chance to be missed and chance to dodge. 18.9 dodge rating is required for 1% dodge. To have the same out of defense, you need 0.5% miss chance and 0.5% dodge chance. You need 12.5 defense for that. 2.4 defense rating is 1 defense, so 30 defense rating equals 18.9 dodge rating for druids, making the Aldor tanking enchant a lot better for feral druids. Even if you count in the crit reduction, it's still 20 defense rating to 18.9 dodge rating. --Thels 12:35, 23 February 2007 (CEST)

This argument is fine and dandy, except that FERAL DRUIDS ARE NOT MOONKINS --Derraie 11:39, 27 January 2007 (EST)

MBB GST SOTF ?? Please guys, do the effort to provide links to the items, not every reader is perfectly fluent with English item names and their abbreviate forms. I managed to find out GST : Ghoul Skin Tunic, and MBB : Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark, but I'm still clueless with SOTF. --Gronyon
 * SOTF is Survival of the Fittest, a feral talent that lowers chance to be crit by 3%, something that brings druids closer to warriors in terms of avoiding spike damage. --Dreamshine 18:58, 2 February 2007 (EST)
 * You sure that's not SOFT? Feral druids are soft and furry ^^   22:23, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Missing Aldor Tailor patterns
I added the 3 missing Aldor tailor patterns. Tailoring is heavily in favor of Aldor, because there are 5 Aldor Tailoring recipes and only 2 Scryer recipes.

It's just one more way that Cloth classes are heavily skewed towards Aldor.

Powerlord 15:59, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Mmm... For healers, perhaps, since the Silver/Golden Spellthread is more for them. For a caster I'd go Scryer for the Mystic/Runic Spellthread. The Flameheart recipes aren't must-haves unless you're raiding some flame-oriented place on a regular basis. (I was going to say MC, but even that's more Shadow than Fire-- if I remember the place correctly, which is not guaranteed.)

Of course, since the items aren't BoP, only the recipes, you can arrange such things with friends and guildies: Swap a Golden for a Runic if need be. I doubt that you'll use up more than four in your lifetime of either variety, unless you're extremely undecided.--ClemSnide (talk) 05:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Enchanting?
What about the enchanting recipes? I am sure that I saw one side had healing to gloves, healing to weapon, and healing to ring (which I think you can only enchant your OWN rings so this is a big deal for healing classes). I dont see any info or if the other faction has dps enchants??


 * Last time I looked there were none available from the Shatt vendors. I hear that there are Aldor-Scryer outposts down south (is it shadowmoon?)... anyone know if there are vendors down that way?  00:41, 28 January 2007 (EST)


 * Don't forget that Shattrath City is made up of four factions, rather than two. These enchants may have been on a Lower City or Sha'tar faction vendor. You only have to choose between Scryer and Aldor factions. Powerlord 15:59, 29 January 2007 (EST)


 * We may need to doublecheck those. Last time i looked (in beta), I think Lower City and Sha'tar had the same items at their vendor... but I wasn't really paying close attention.   16:22, 29 January 2007 (EST)
 * In Beta, they had indeed, but now they're different. -- T  inker  er  16:29, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Why is that table there?
I've looked at this page and the discussion behind it and almost every complaint here is because of that silly table at the top. People read it, take it as fact, ignore the warnings to check the loot and take it as written in stone. Anyone with half a mind should be able to draw their own conclusions on what side to go with by comparing the loots. Now we have this table where people are trying to say, my spec is better for this and that spec is better for that. Some thing as individualized as spec and stat focus is not something that can be split easily in two especially when the devs tried to make choices between the factions equivalent. Look at some of the entries in that table, classes appearing on both side, sometimes the same thing on both. So if it's so wrong that it needs revision why do we have it there. I'm going to delete it and tell people to compare rewards and choose for yourself. If you don't like it, change it back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * We have multiple notices about discussing before making changes. People have been discussing the table, but I do not see enough complaints to warrant a removal of it. We're here to help people, and generally that table does that. If they can't help themselves and actually read the notices, well, that's not our fault :) Not only that, but the table is accurate and unrefutable in most cases. 11:45, 4 February 2007 (EST)


 * The intent of the table was never to tell people which faction to pick, but rather help guide them to the most common choices and, more importantly, spur discussion. I think it's done that job quite well  01:28, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Faction specific quest rewards?
I have heard but have so far not been able to verify (though the thottbot data strongly suggests) that there is at least one quest chain that is only available for Aldor that has at least one reward that makes me believe I chose absolutely wrong with the Scryers. I am a Feral Druid and the reward I am talking about are the "Cleansed Fel Pauldrons" (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=59108). Since the high priestess of the Aldor is involved in the chain (Ishanah or what's her name) it seems this will not be doable by those who chose Scryers.

My point is: shouldn't quest rewards like that one also be listed in such a comparison?

My problem is: I couldn't find any overview of such faction specific quests anywhere and before I start turning in stuff to raise faction with either Scryers or Aldor I really really want to know what else I might be missing out on? I think a list of such rewards would be a very valuable resource or at least a note in the article would help people consider more than just the simple faction rewards. Yet I have no idea how to accomplish the task of creating such a list ... any ideas? Yashima 18:45, 4 February 2007 (EST)


 * Yes, they should... but I've not seen the quests yet. Someone else is probably going to have to add that info.  01:29, 6 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ok I could find out a little bit more about this. I will try to list the quests for both factions here as I find them, maybe someone with more wiki experience can one day include the list on the actual page to assist people with their choice. Wowhead has a nice filter for rep-gain. I will list only those that I actually find that have item rewards. I have added all I found. I must look at this more indepth later though, but right now I don't have the time, maybe this can already help some people to make a better choice than I did.  - Yashima 10:44, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Aldor Quests:
 * Aldor No More (green rewards)
 * Deathblow to the Legion (blue rewards)
 * Measuring Warp Energies (green rewards)
 * Reclaiming Holy Ground (green rewards)
 * Shutting Down Manaforge Ara (blue rewards)

Scryer Quests:
 * Kick them while they are down (green rewards)
 * Turning Point (blue rewards)
 * Information Gathering (green rewards)
 * Shutting Down Manaforge Ara (blue rewards, same quest name differen rewards!)
 * The great retribution (green rewards, the same as Reclaiming Holy Ground??)

Identical Questchains (concerning rewards)
 * Varedis must be stopped (blue rewards)

Table Replacement
As there appears to be some resentment vs the table i'd suggest a more useful replacement.

Rather than outright list what classes should get each faction, instead list beside the rewards what classes would benefit from them. as done Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards, that way forcing people to look at the choices.

Also, there are some aldor / scryer quests in netherstorm, and shadowmoon valley, could we get a list of those quests up here for comparison as well ?

The (1) (2) (3) behind the names on the second table are valuation weights. 3= highest, 1= lowest.

Also, i dont think it's needed to display a "full" tooltip of each item, but rather the general stats, this page is TOO BIG in it's current form. 03:28, 6 February 2007 (EST)


 * Excellent idea! 13:37, 8 February 2007 (EST)

And what about "arms" warrior?
i dont understand what is better?but i dont sure that i always take my arms build...


 * One more nerf and which faction to choose as an Arms Warrior will be a moot point. As will Arms Warriors themselves. Sigh.--ClemSnide 13:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Netherstorm quest chains...
just thought I'd link the two final rewards for the quest chain in Area 52.

Deathblow to the Legion - Aldor

Turning Point - Scryer

For Aldor, we have:

Slippers of the High Priestess, cloth healing boots.

Cleansed Fel Pauldrons, leather shoulders for rogues (or possibly feral DPS druids).

Gauntlets of the Redeemed Vindicator, mail gloves for hunters (or possibly enhance shammies).

Lightwarden's Girdle, plate belt for paladins.

Kaylaan's Signet, a ring for any melee DPS class.

For Scryers, we have:

Socrethar's Girdle, leather rogue/feral DPS druid belt.

Netherfused Pauldrons, Leather moonkin/resto druid shoulders.

Greaves of Spellpower, Mail elemental/resto shaman boots.

Gauntlets of the Vanquisher, plate fury warrior gloves.

Wand of the Seer, a wand that works for pretty much everyone, I guess.

These go fairly well with the archetypes already established.


 * Well actually the Scryers were listed for Feral Druids originally and stupid me chose them ... but Cleansed Fel Pauldrons are waaaay too good ;) Now I am collecting the Dreadfang Venom Bags. Anyway thanks for the List, I hope it finds its way on the page. Yashima 04:34, 7 February 2007 (EST)

Quick mage sum up
I added the values for the various attributes that you can get by wearing the more "mage friendly" items (including the Karja's Medallion and Manastorm Band quest rewards). Note that this is not completely foolproof, as I did this quite fast and I probably forgot to take into account some factors. Still, I think it gives a decent view of what a mage decked out with one side's items can look like.

Aldor: +99 int +16 stam +28 spi +19 hit +36 crit +139 dmg

Scryers: +15 int +22 stam +32 hit +36 crit +224 dmg

So Aldor give a lot more mana and spirit. Scryers have the upper hand on spell hit ratings, stamina and damage. They both have similar crit values. Arcane mages might love the Aldor's higher mana which improves their damage with the right spec. Note that an interesting thing is that Scryers don't give a chest piece for mages, so if you have tailoring you can probably make a great robe rivalling the Aldor's Anchorite (though I don't know what the new recipies look like). Also, the Scryer spellthread is better than the Aldor one for mages. Overall, if you are a mage with tailoring, I would suggest Scryers. --DarthMuffin 21:26, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * I am not sure how relevant your comparison is. Some of the things are BoE (Spellthread for example, while the pattern is BoP), and so you can ask a friend to make them. The choice on what faction to choose may better be based on the BoP rewards. -- LarsPensjo 07:13, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * To be honest, I didin't buy anything from Aldor while being a mage, only the shoulder enchants. I already had a better weapon, when I turned Revered, and the robe is not really great. The spellthread patterns are BoP, but you can buy them off the AH, or farm the mats and ask your fellow tailor to make you one.--imz1 02:48, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Draenei and Blood Elves: You've Already Made Friends!
This may’ve been mentioned but it merits repeating if it hasn’t.

Draenei have no choice when they reach Outland – the moment they speak with the Aldor, they are listed as FRIENDLY. Because of this, I imagine that the Blood Elves are already Friendly with the Scryer and are already disliked by the Aldor.

My support of this information comes from the fact that, upon reaching a portal to Shattrah City @ 58 on my Shaman, I spoke with the Aldor and the rep indicator said I was Friendly. I don’t know if speaking to the Scryer first would’ve changed this effect, but prior to speaking with anyone from Aldor, all of their NPC names were already green (friendly), unlike the situation with my warrior, who saw everyone as yellow (neutral).

I have done nothing to test if there is a way to switch to Scryer from the Aldor (as one might switch to the Bloodsail Buccaneers from Booty Bay) so I cannot confirm or deny if this is permanent.
 * GoGoGodzilla 17:10, 8 February 2007 (EST)


 * I can confirm this. I went with all my twinks to Shattrath (to set my hearthstone there because of the portals), and my Draenei is now friendly (500/6000) with the Aldor, while all others are only neutral (0/3000) with their faction. --Nalumis 02:05, 9 February 2007 (EST)


 * Just because you start friendly with one and hated with the other does not mean you cannot be the other. You can pick aldor for instance as a blood elf and they will turn neutral. You will just lose the friendly faction you had with the Scyers. Spyrena 16:28, 9 February 2007 (EST)


 * This may seem a bit irrelevant, but as my draenei, is there any way to have the Scryers reputation bar show up in my reputation log without increasing my rep with them? Will this happen after I complete any Aldor quest? Or is there someone to talk to that will make it show up? The Scryer girl who I believe gives the quest to switch to scryers if you are below nuetral does not cause this to show up upon speaking to her. Thanks! Garenas 20:55, 11 February 2007 (EST)


 * Yes, as soon as you complete an Aldor quest, it will appear (since you will lose Scryer rep). 22:39, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Aldor vs Scryer class comparison
Question: Why have a chart showing which faction is best for a certain class, when there's three warnings saying not to listen to it? Many people won't even see the warnings and skip right to the best-for-class comparison. If the chart is as it is described in the warnings, it's just personal opinion; since when did personal opinion belong in a fact based wiki? Not only that, but if one looks at the revert history for that comparison, the chart itself appears to be a target of the faction-biased. Wouldn't it serve the public better to remove the chart completely and steer this page more of a item-based comparison instead of a opinion based comparison? REMOVE THE CHART. --Ceilí 00:14, 13 February 2007 (EST)

=

Reputation needed for equipping armor/weapons?
I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me if you need to maintain the specific reputation level for items you bought from Aldor or Scryer to be able to wield them. More specificly, I want to get both patterns, but I need to know now if I need to switch to to Scryer first and then to Aldor for the items or I can stay Aldor atm and just go Scryer after I get Exalted and still be able to keep using the items. Thanks in advance. --Guran 14:51, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Found it out already, you DO need the reputation to be able to equip/use the item, so if you're a crafter and want both Aldor & Scryer recipes, go for the one that's NOT the best choice in gear (& shoulder enchants) for you.


 * Any item that states a rep requirement means you must have that rep to use or equip the item. If using the item provides a permanent effect (learning a pattern) you will retain that effect even if your rep drops later.  In short, equipment requires you keep the rep, patterns don't.   13:41, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * Yeah, just was a bit confused, because you also need reputation to BUY the item. Unlike other factions such as the BG ones, you usually can't decrease your rep with them, so no point in putting a restriction there, cuase if you can buy it, you can use it. Guess this is the first large faction that you can lose rep with. (Never been a Buccaneer, so have no idea there as well :p) --Guran 04:33, 17 February 2007 (EST)

More quests with different rewards
The "Shutting Down Manaforge X" quests eventually lead to "Deathblow to the Legion" for Aldor and a comparable quest called "Turning Point" for Scryers. The quest rewards are very different. For example, I chose Aldor for my rogue, but was disappointed to find that the Scryer reward for this quest (Socrethar's Girdle) is MUCH better for rogues.

As far as I can tell, it's the best questable rogue belt in the game at this point, and it's not available to Aldor. Given how close the decision was in other respects, this might well have altered my choice.

Sorry for not adding the info directly to the article, I'm new to Wiki and the markup style is pretty intimidating.

Kob


 * Don't be intimidated, add it. Even if it's plain text or a link to thott, add it.  Someone will clean it up if it looks bad, but if the info is never added it doesn't help anyone.   01:49, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * Added, since the above guy was slacking. 16:00, 26 February 2007 (EST)


 * I went through the entire list of Aldor and Scryer quests on wowhead today (for my own personal reference) and decided to go ahead and add the list to this page since it was one of the few areas of comparison that was really lacking. Its my first major wiki contribution, so hopefully I got it all right ;-) Most of the quests/items aren't in wowwiki yet, so if somebody cares enough they can go ahead and add them. Until then, the external links to the quest details should suffice. --Chippydip 02:19, 27 February 2007 (EST)


 * It looks like some of the quests have the same rewards on both sides. I think these quests should be removed from the lists here as the items get filled in, since there is nothing to "compare."  Perhaps just a note that says "same rewards for both" would suffice, instead of making this lengthy page even longer.   19:29, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Warlock on a PvE??
I'm a lock on a PvE in a smaller, yet growing guild, and being the only lock in my guild (just a bunch of my roomies and random people we recruit) I was wondering what faction would be the better choice for gear, tailoring, and enchants?


 * Read all the items and decide for yourself, that's the whole point of this page 17:00, 1 March 2007 (EST)

If you are going to have Ruin in your build, Scryers would be the best choice for you... Scryers got critgear and with improved shadowbolt will your crits boost all the locks and shadowpriestes dps... If you dont want to have Ruin in your build, Aldor would be best for you...

Imbued netherweave patterns
This page needs to note that, although they are not rep rewards, you cannot learn Pattern: Imbued Netherweave Tunic or Pattern: Imbued Netherweave Robe if you are Aldor, as they are sold exclusively by a Scryer vendor in Shadowmoon Valley. --Davidc 01:16, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * The patterns are also sold by Arrond in Shadowmoon Valley. And I think you can get the patterns from the AH. I am Aldor myself, and know the pattern. -- LarsPensjo 04:17, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 * As you can see, the pattern does not bind, nor does it have a rep requirement attached. Therefore any tailor can LEARN it, but only scryers may BUY it from the NPC.  Nice and fair there eh?  Hope Aldor get some non-binding recipes they can sell to Scryers at inflated rates as well!  09:08, 8 March 2007 (EST)

Information "Relocations" to subpages
I did this because this page was literally breaking the wiki. Every time I added a new item or changed from /Tooltip the wiki was down for up to 2 or 3 minutes at a time. We discussed my breakage briefly on irc and came to the conclusion that there were just too many inclusions for the page. I then decided I was going to move the information.--Sky 14:16, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

What about elemental shamans?
This might sounds like a noob, but elemental shamans dont really get anything good out of the two factions, except the inscriptions. There are almost no gear an elemental shaman could make use of. (most of the rewards are plates and +attack power mail gears. plus recipe for spellthread, but who in the right mind would pick up tailoring for a shaman toon and level it to 375?) similar situation with the instance loots, people i play with usually complain anout too many palie gears and hunter gears. where are the good blue gears for elemental shamans? does it really have to be endless raiding or PvPing to get the epic tiers?

Why are hunters listed under Aldor? Or, remove the table.
The Scryer shoulder enchant is vastly superior to the Aldor one for all hunters, for sustained DPS. Why are hunters listed under Aldor? Furthermore, why does this table even exist? It is obviously very subjective.


 * And lo' the table is gone. It's outlived its purpose. 20:05, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Questlines if you switch factions
Greetings,

After taking a look at the rewards I was wondering about the option of doing a quest chain through one faction for the quest reward, and then switch to the opposite faction and do their version of the quest line to reap the rewards. I did some digging but I have yet to find the info I'm looking for:

If I were to pick, say, Aldor, and do the Netherstorm manaforge quest chain that ends with Deathblow to the Legion and then switch factions to Scryer would the Turning Point chain still be available? I'm not certain on the effort changing factions will take and I know that raiding will eventually replace the rewards one could get by doing this but the information should be there on the main page for anyone who's interested.

If the above were false would it still be possible to do a chain up to a point then leave it there and switch factions to resume on the other?
 * dont see why not tbh. 17:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * They are different quests, even if they've got the same objectives and rewards. I've seen quests that require another quest to be completed to gain access, but I've never seen a quest that denies you access if you've done another quest.  But then, I have no intents of swapping factions, so I have no idea if it's possible... but I assume so.   19:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

"Rewards" section is quite misleading
I'm a mage and I was Aldor while leveling from 63 to 70 after which I reconsidered all the rewards and switched to Scryers. So here is my ex post point of view.

Scryers Tier has a vendor and repairman right outside of the inn. So if you hearthed to Shattrath to repair and unload your bags you won't need to travel to Lower City. Also Scryers Tier offers reagent vendor, poison vendor and even grandmaster enchanter (if you leveling enchanting this might be bonus too). On the other hand Aldors have only a "normal" vendor who doesn't even offer repair services.

Also Aldors and Scryers has different graveyards in Shadowmoon Valley, both graveyards locates near their respective towns. It doesn't make much difference when you questing in Shadowmoon, but it surely does when you quest in Netherwing Ledge. You die alot there (i died well over 100 times though i'm not that great a player) and having Scryers graveyard located thrice closer than Aldors one saves you some time.

Now about the rewards. It is incorrect to compare just Aldors versus Scryers rewards. One should also take into account if similar (or even superior) items are obtainable through quests or instances. Of course, it is a grand work to do but this is exactly that kind of work which will not be done by a person who wants to choose between Aldor and Scryer when he/she is at level 62~63.

(Aldor) - don't look at it. By the time you reach 70 and revered with Aldor you will have better weapon. Besides no mages go with staves nowadays - only sword/dagger + off-hand combo.

(Aldor) - i'm not sure if it is any worth for non-tailors, but if you are a tailor then you would have your  or  by that time.

(Scryer) - this thing is unique! no other trinket in game offers such a high +spell hit rating. And since spell hit rating is most important for those who want to raid I would even say this thing is invaluable.

(Scryer) - this ring is awesome too, replacements can be found only on final bosses of SSC / Eye, or in BT / Hyjal. Needless to say those are high-end instances and most people will never go there at all.

As for inscriptions, yes Aldor offers a better one. So consider switching back to Aldor when your guild has beaten BT and Hyjal :)

Fibby 17:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

aldor or scryers
hi im curently way of making the big desicision on aldor or scryers but i thought i might get all the heavy thinkin out the so what i wana know is aldor or scryers for a dreanei hunter (talent spec= marksman)


 * Hunters tend towards Aldor... check out the Armory trends section I just started.  07:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I have a question, which group would you recommend for Death Knights? I know this is a long going discussion, but with the inclusion of the new Hero Class, would like to know what the opinions of the populous would think? 1125, Nov 15, 2008 (CST)

A cautionary tale: Or, why my Hunter went Scryer
So I have two charas high level enough to get to Outland on their own steam. (I'll consider the Warlock or Mage path when my crafters are high enough to get the advanced training.) The Warrior is housed at the Aldor inn, but hasn't chosen a path yet, mostly so he can still use either of the banks. But my Hunter went completely Scryer.

Why? I had seen a vendor at the Seers' Library, who had the Tier 4 and Tier 5 set for Hunters. Whoa! Obviously I need to go Scryer with my Hunter, right? ...So why is a modest majority going Aldor? After reading these pages I began to wonder.

I went with my unaligned Warrior and checked out the Aldor merchant in that temple-like place up the steps. Yep, there were Tier 4 and 5 sets for sale, Warrior-specific. Then over to Scryers.

Oops. "You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! And also, assuming that vendors show you everything they have, class-specific or not!" as Vizzini might have said if he had played WoW.--ClemSnide 14:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Disadvantages of Postponing
Is there any disadvantage to postponing this decision, and if so, at what point does that start to happen? From what I can see, gearwise the rewards are for level 70's. I've currently got two gathering professions, so that's a moot issue until (and unless) I take up some other line of work. How about quests? Will any of them have turned gray by level 70? Am I missing some compelling reason to make this decision sooner rather than later, or are am I way off by thinking I'll be no worse off waiting indefinitely? Bryanc 15:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * While leveling there are a few quests. I think it was 1 scryer, 3 aldor in Terokkar; the manaforge line in Netherstorm and the Broken quests in shadowmoon.  The later two are nearly exactly the same regardless of which faction you choose, you just report to different NPCs and there are a few different rewards.   21:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)