Forum:Who would look like the Azj'Aqir?

Well, this is a small research around what could look like the Azj'Aqir. I'll use what we know about qiraji, silithids and nerubian to try find those things they have in common, and try to get to the original race.

First of all, let's quote some texts:

"Horde Player's Guide, Chapter 6: History and Culture, Jungle Troll History"

Long ago, when Kalimdor was still part of the single great continent, the trolls were lords and masters of the land. They headed two great empires: The Amani Empire of the forestlands and the Gurubashi Empire of the southern jungles. Though the forest trolls of the Amani Empire and the jungle trolls of the Gurubashi Empire had little love for each other, they frequently combined their forces to battle an ancient and mysterious civilization called Azj’Aqir. The aqir were intelligent insectoids who ruled the lands of the far west. The clever aqir were expansionistic and evil. They were obsessed with eradicating all non-insect life from the fields of Kalimdor.

For thousands of years, the allied forces of the forest and jungle trolls fought the aqir, but never succeeded in winning a true victory. Eventually, due to the trolls’ persistence, the aqiri kingdom split in half, as its citizens fled to separate colonies in the far northern and southern regions of the continent. Two aqiri city-states emerged: Azjol-Nerub in the northern wastes, and Ahn’Qiraj in the southern desert. Thus, the qiraji and the nerubians are descended from the same race: the aqir.

"Lands of Mystery, Chapter 3: Southern Kalimdor, Silithus"

Long ago, before the Sundering, there were two troll empires: the Gurubashi and the Amani. I’ve located Gurubashi ruins in Stranglethorn Vale, so I know there’s some truth to this. Anyway, at some point in their history, the trolls found themselves threatened by an insect race called the Azj’Aqir.

Eventually the trolls beat back the creatures and split them into two factions, the nerubians in the north and the qiraji to the south. The nerubians eventually faced the Lich King in Northrend, and the qiraji fought the night elves in Silithus after the Sundering. The elves won, but the land was blasted by the war, and the elven towns were left in ruins. Thus you have the smashed remnants of Southwind, and several other smaller elf villages scattered throughout the region.

After this I can only speculate. I know for certain that the silithid are not the same as the qiraji, which, the tales have it, walked upright like men. The Scarab Wall was built either by the elves to keep the surviving qiraji out, or by the qiraji to keep themselves safe from the elves. Nobody knows or remembers.

The elves of the Cenarion Circle think the silithid aren’t just intelligent, they’re part of some sort of grand plan by the qiraji, or some other as yet unknown force.

"Lands of Conflict, Chapter 6: Civilizations, Nerubians"

The nerubians come from Azjol-Nerub in Northrend, but their true origins are much older. Once, they and another race, the qiraji, were one people, who established the empire of Azj’Aqir that was in power long ago. The qiraji warred with the Gurubashi and Amani troll empires, and after long centuries of battle their culture was shattered and they were driven into exile. The nerubians fled north.

So, after these quotes, I get this conclusion:

Aqir |  ---   |             | Qiraji   -    Nerubian | Silithid

If we compare the 2 branches, Nerubian and Silithid are more similar than Nerubian and Qiraji, but Silithid descend from Qiraji, so I'll suppose that both the Nerubian and the Silithid are a step further on evolution than the qiraji, meaning qiraji are the most similar to the original Aqir; but we know C'Thun twisted them, so they probably evolved a bit, just like Naga and Cho'Gall, so let's check the features of each of the 3 races and compare them:

Qiraji:
 * Ants: 0-2
 * Eyes: 2
 * Arms/legs: 2 arms, 2-8 legs
 * Wings: 0-4

Silithid:
 * Ants: 0-2
 * Eyes: 2
 * Arms/legs: 6
 * Jaws: 0-2-4
 * Wings: 0-2-4

Nerubian:
 * Eyes: 2-5
 * Arms/legs: 6-8
 * Jaws: 2-4
 * Wings: 8

Full summary:
 * Ants: 0-2
 * Eyes: 2-5
 * Arms/legs: 4-6-8-10
 * Jaws: 0-2-4
 * Wings: 0-2-4-8

Seeing this, I could start selecting appropriate features for the original aqir:
 * Ants: The creatures using them have them playing like hair, so I think I would give the original aqir 2 ants for their eyebrows, and the possibility of having a mane of ants, Kerrigan-style.
 * Eyes: 2 is the clear choice.
 * Arms/legs: The qiraji have 2 arms and 2 legs, the common pattern on playable races, so I'd give them that.
 * Jaws: Jaws would work as troll's tusks. I would give them just 2, located at the sides of their mouths (just like the Cryptlord).
 * Wings: I wouldn't give them wings, nor flying neither inoperative. Perhaps, they could have some in the back, but it isn't a detail of bigger importance.

There you have. After this, we've gotten a lore-fitting features that could help the race making it into game, and even becoming playable if decided so.

Looking forward your opinion (about the look they could have, not their classes or them as playable; I don't care about that).--Lon-ami (talk) 10:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, so much work. Shouldn't you call the creatures aqir? I thought Azj'Aqir is the name of the empire of the aqir. Anyway, is it possible the aqir are just the combination of the Qiraji and Nerubian, but their differences drove them apart rather than some actual evolutionary changes? Just a thought. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 11:58 PM PST 2 Sep 2009


 * You could take this at face value...-- 00:21, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL Lon-ami, ur cool, and some of your ideas are awesome, but then others just make my head spin... Max Krist (talk) 00:44, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks xDDD. I've analyzed all the sources mentioning the word aqir (sorry I put Azj'Aqir all the time, it's just a mistake), including troll compendium, and in-game references at Ahn'Qiraj.
 * I'll explain you all that triggered this:
 * This started after I saw the Twin Emperors. They were too humanoid, and that made me wonder a lot of stuff. Let's say I ended seeing they had a relationship with the aqir akin to the one Man'ari Eredar and Draenei have.
 * Later, I got Lands of Mystery. It has a good background on the nerubian, a background stating they didn't believe in gods.
 * Finally, I couldn't forget the Troll Compendium: trolls suspected there were more aqir cities, hidden to their eyes. And that suspicion "becomes" true, since nerubian and qiraji split up, marching towards the north and the south respectively and, well, every suspicion has a bit of truth behind it.
 * What happened with that city? Who knows. My theory is that the aqir weren't evil, but some day a group of them contacted the Old Gods. The old ones offered them power and whatever, finally twisting them into what they are today. They started with Ahn'Qiraj, where they transformed the population into nearly mindless beasts, the silithid, and gave powers to their leaders, the qiraji. This "new cult" extended to the other 2 cities, to be refused in the missing one (let's name it AK) and to be accepted at Azjol-Nerub. The nerubians became powerful, too, but finally betrayed the Old Gods after they took their gifts. "AK" probably got destroyed by the servants of the Old Gods after they refused to obey before the betrayal of the nerubians. The trolls, during this war, took new lands, which would later become Zul'Farrak, Zul'Drak and the lands of the dark trolls.
 * That's just my opinion, of course, and anything else could have happened. It's just my way of explaining how they "evolved".
 * So I started researching the features of all the "evolved" aqir, and tried to get what they had in common. I had a shape in mind, and I managed to justify it with the research. And that's all.
 * Also, I have an idea for making them playable:
 * The story of the aqir merges itself with another one: the pandaren one. You know, that one that told they were friends with night elves until they started using the well. They left, and after the Sundering their lands became island: Pandaria.
 * What I'm talking about now? This is speculative, but I always placed the lands of the Pandaren in the western part of Old Kalimdor: just because the east was troll land, the northwest was nerubian and the southwest was qiraji.
 * And wonder what: I also place "AK" there. If we take as true my opinion about what happened to "AK", then the pandaren found a land free of owner; the surviving aqir probably hide underground or hibernated or something.
 * Now, if you want to give pandaren an enemy on their own home, you just have to awaken the surviving aqir, and make them fight the pandaren for their former lands. Pandaren would go Horde, no doubt, and the aqir would fit inside the Alliance, and make the tension grow for their relationship with trolls.
 * Well, I think I let my fingers write too much, sorry.
 * Anyway, what of my ideas make your head spin, Max Krist? xDDD (yeah, some are, well, too complicated and whatever)
 * Thanks for reading .--Lon-ami (talk) 11:50, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * lol this one specifically... anyways that reminds me of another question I been thinking about:
 * Jungle Troll = Gurubashi Empire = Zul Gurub
 * Forest Troll = Amani Empire    = Zul Aman
 * Ice Troll   = Drakari Empire   = Zul Drak
 * Does this mean that:
 * Sand Troll  = Farrakian Empire? = Zul Farrak
 * And where does that leave the Dark Trolls? Are we going to discover they have an empire in Hyjal? Seriously, if the trolls all joined forces they could rule Azeroth... Max Krist (talk) 12:26, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, sand trolls are a minor force, so the city could have been named in other sense originally. Anyway, yeah, something like that should be its name, but the weird thing is we haven't any tribe named like that, when the others do have.
 * Anyway, I think that, 16,000 years ago, we had 6 main cities:
 * Troll cities
 * Zul'Aman
 * Zuldazar
 * Zul'Gurub
 * Aqir cities
 * Azjol-Nerub
 * A????aqir
 * Ahn'Qiraj
 * During the war, trolls moved:
 * Troll cities
 * Zul'Aman > Gundrak
 * Zuldazar > Zul'????
 * Zul'Gurub > Zul'Farrak
 * So the 3 are younger empires, that appeared because of the war.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:58, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * This was the first topic i covered when i came to WoWWiki at User:Zeal/Lore Theories, as my original intent coming here was to correct misconceptions and speculation as fact on the wiki. It wasn't trying to prove that only one theory is possible, just prove that Blizzard has left it open for now.
 * I've since revisted this topic because of Project Rex and actually proven that the theory i presented there wasn't actually plausible but the facts and ideas in it remain key points. I've not been writing out the proof for Project Rex because it's very much a WIP and covers so many areas i'd be rewritting pages of lore just because of one small change elsewhere. So i could explain my new results, but it would be very rough.
 * Basically, it looks like this right now:
 * Various insects
 * Various silithid evolve from insects due to the the Well of Eternity.
 * Aqir are created from Silithid by C'Thun. (Most of what we call Qiraji can be proven to have existed at this point iirc.)
 * Arachnid and beetle like aqir split and become the Nerubians. What remains become the Qiraji.
 * I can for certain say your idea that Silithid come from the Qiraji is wrong. See the following quote.


 * Good luck! -- 10:50, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know about the Prophecy of C'Thun, but I find it more like if it was written from the viewpoint of Skeram, since the war with the trolls isn't mentioned and the aqir word doesn't appear in the entire text. Also, about the image labeled as Azj'Aqir, Azj'Aqir is the name of the empire, not the race, which implies the silithid were part of the empire, not the race known as aqir. Anyway, interesting discussion .--Lon-ami (talk) 11:46, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well i'm afraid i have no respect for anyone who uses the "Skaram PoV" argument to dismiss what is unique and key lore. :/
 * As to the image, whether or not it's the empire or species isn't really that important. Even if it is supposed to represent the empire only, it still shows what is known to be Silithid in the same place and time and that's the important part. -- 16:22, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I've used Skeram POV argument, but I have my own theory. Of course, it's not proven, but I think that the word "Silithid" has 2 meanings in the prophecy text. The first would be "silithid creatures", and the second one "aqir from Silithus". This way, it would have sense. Without this, the prophecy has just no sense.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:31, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * How does the prophecy have no sense otherwise? :S I'm using it as is; no fancy reinterpretations. Makes perfect sense to me and my theory explains why Aqir may go unmentioned in the history. -- 11:51, September 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Duh, forgot this thread. Anyway, your theory would imply that the aqir descended from the silithid, thanks to C'Thun? And then C'Thun created another batch, and named them qiraji?
 * I think it doesn't have sense, just because qiraji were once aqir, and part of their empire before splitting up.
 * The prophecy contradicts the troll compendium and all the other sources, implying the qiraji were created from the silithid, when they were former aqir.
 * The point of doubt still is the same: silithid before or after the aqir.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:14, September 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing is ever stated that C'Thun created Qiraji from Aqir, but from Silithid; in fact it's worded very carefully to skip the step from other sources of the Aqir becoming the Qiraji: "were to be known"; which is what allows my theory to fit perfectly. I was suggesting it was the creation of Aqir from Silithid that C'Thun actually took part in and there is proof for that in the AQ lore.
 * This reconciles fine with the other sources so there's no contradiction; that's the beauty of it.
 * As i said, previously i put forward the idea that Silithid and Aqir could be the same species by different names but i've proved myself wrong. There is room to speculate that Silithid are a later stage of the Aqir on the surface, but i beleive it wouldn't hold up under a closer inspection and would be even harder for people to swallow. But suggesting that Qiraji predate Silithid is preposterous and requires ignoring a big and uniuqe peice of lore and possibly others. -- 01:54, September 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * I still fail to see the role of the aqir at the prophecy of C'Thun. Nothing even implies that they existed there. The population of Ahn'Qiraj was aqir at some point, having fled from the lost war, like those who fled to Azjol-Nerub.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:38, September 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is possible The Prophet Skeram or the Trolls were wrong in their histories. The book is much more likely to be in third person omniscient IMSO. On a side note, I think the page should have been moved from "Forum:How would look like the Azj'Aqir?" to something more along the lines of "Forum:How would the Azj'Aqir look like?", not "Editing Forum:Who would look like the Azj'Aqir?", but it does not really matter.-- 20:23, September 16, 2009 (UTC)