Talk:Night elf/Archive01

Gender Roles
In WarCraft 3 time and time again it was emphasized that the Night Elven society is segregated by sex -- that is to say, females dominated positions of war (both hunters AND gatherers) while men were more aimed towards the pursuits of intelligence (druids).

It has been said that prior to the release of World of WarCraft, Chris Metzen, one of those most directly responsible for the lore behind the universe, fought a long and arduous battle to keep this; however, for reasons that can only be speculated (sexual equality too important?) as of World of WarCraft men can be warriors/rogues/hunters/priests just as women can be druids.

If they wish to canonize this they could explain it, I guess, by saying that the influence of their new allies, specifically the adaptive humans, encouraged their people to "try new things".

My question is -- was this ever explained? Anywhere? Has a reason been formulated, or has it officially been retconned, or what?

--another point of interest is the War of the Ancients trilogy which, though staying true to the very ruler of the Night Elves being female, Queen Azshara, makes out most of the army to be male. This could still go with the former story in that druids weren't really popular back then, as Malfurion was the first one, so it's possible all the men became druids after. However, if they want to retcon out the female dominance of all things war as it was in WarCraft 3, I guess they could just say everything stayed the way it was in the trilogy.

Thoughts? Info? --Wasted 01:04, 2 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Night Elf civilization goes back a long way, so I tend to doubt that it's an influence of the more "adaptive" alliance races- also, recall that we saw no human females in war until Jaina. I think the simplest explaination is that that the whole "warrior women, druid men" society image was for the purposes of the Long Vigil, when all Night Elves had to take on those roles. Without Archimonde, the need for such a stratified society basically crumbled. But in answer to your more general query: no there has been no official explaination.--Ragestorm 07:37, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

That's a good point, and I hadn't thought of it. However, your point about Jaina is a little questionable! Jaina may be the first one we actually see, but there are records of others. Pathonia Shaw, for example, if you remember -- Mathias Shaw's grandmother, the one who started the Stormwind Assassins -- was among the first of the SI: 7 who've been said to have worked in intelligence and such during the First War, as well as killing scouts and other duties. This places her well before Jaina was born, time-wise. --Wasted 14:59, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

There is an official explanation for the change concerning gender roles in night elf society. It's only given in the Warcraft RPG as far as I know, though. Here's a quote from the Alliance Player's Guide (written from the point of view of Brann Bronzebeard): "If you’re a canny historian and traveler like me, you might notice that the gender restrictions on night elf professions no longer seem to be in effect. Traditionally, only night elf men became druids, and only night elf women became Sentinels. Well, so many night elves died in the Third War that Malfurion and Tyrande both decided that it was time to relax the gender restrictions. You might think that seeing the way both men and women act in the rest of the Alliance influenced them, but that’s not true — they came to their decision independently." -- Foogray 15:22, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

I remember reading a long long time ago that the lore people at Blizzard were totally against the allowing of opposite sexes being classes outside their gender. The main reason that it was allowed as I recall was simply because it would be too restricting on the public (since basically any night elf who wasn't a druid would be playing as a female for the nightelves.) They were kicking themselves a lot over whether females should be allowed as druids. Again for business reasons. Sorry but no citing for this. Pzychotix 01:50, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Correct, Chris Metzen was originally against allowing female druids, but in the interest of the game, he was convinced to allow it :) -- Kirkburn 08:07, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Hm, think Chris Metzen and his lore peeps left a "hint" on the gender roles. Log on to your night elf, hit enter and type /charge. This will activate a voice emo. Male night elves will say "For Cenarius!" while female will say "By Elune!" *snickers* Guess Chris got his way through, atleast a small bit.

I think the Official Explanation is something along the lines of 'If we make it so you have to be a girl to play warrior-types and a boy to play caster-types, we'll get 50 billion and a half e-mails about people being hit on by unwitting players of the same sex.' That's not a direct quote mind you, but it seems to be what they figured. Razzik 05:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC) `~

The art of war section
I don't doubt the deadliness of NEs as a whole, but the comments of bloodthirstiness are a bit shocking to me. I don't know THAT much about NEs, but such a comment is quite shocking to me, and isn't what I expected. It could be true, so I left it as is, though I tagged it for accuracy. Would help if some sources were cited. Pzychotix 13:29, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * As Bookkeeper of Night Elf lore, I must protest this section's tone heavily. "Bloodthirsty" is too strong a word, and the phrase "apparent love of nature" implies that the Night Elves actively seek the destruction of other races. Comparing them to the orcs also a bad idea. Basically, the section implies that everything about the Night Elves is a lie. The section's accuracy and neutrality have been heavily compromised. --Ragestorm 17:22, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I was the author of the above statements. I am also aware of how they are depicted in the backstory; however, I was referring more to the way I have seen them played in-game. In my experience the behaviour of players with Night Elf characters, more consistently than that of any other group, has been highly antagonistic and objectionable. They are in my experience overwhelmingly the griefer's race, where WoW is concerned.


 * I'm also not sure how you can argue that the Night Elves are even depicted terribly positively within the backstory. They are described and portrayed as being consistently arrogant and xenophobic, at least towards the other sub-branches of their species, (the High Elves and Blood Elves) viewing the latter as an abomination. It is also implied within the game that they consider the Tauren immature and inferior with regard to the latter race's druidic abilities.


 * In terms of the section having been compromised...I'd perhaps agree in terms of *neutrality*. But my perspective has only developed as a product of observation over time, and that observation has gradually led me to consider the overall character of the Night Elves to be deeply hypocritical, and generally rather detestable, to be totally honest. In more simplistic terms, they're really not nice. ;-)


 * Petrus4 11:01, 8 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Uh, these articles pertain to the actual races, and the official view on them. The people playing them who do them no justice are hardly justification for calling them bloodthirsty. Now, if you were talking about NPCs, that would be a different story. But, as 90% of the intrawebz nubz are likely to play NE for the prettiness (and 80% of that NE females), you're more than likely to get a couple a-holes playing NEs, but the same can happen with any player on a different race. Basically, your experiences with players playing NEs are representative of the players themselves, hardly representative of NE players.


 * As a long time Night Elf player, it angers me to no end when people attempt to make the night elves into what they are not. They are not Legolas-like, they are not charismatic, they are not tempered. The player base has made a mockery of what Chris Metzen has strived to establish. In the end, it was the player's fault for making males warriors and females druids; Chris Metzen protested this seperation a great deal. I bring this up here because you, the ignorant player base, have once again attempted to change the Night Elves into your own interpetation. WoWWiki is not here for you to remake the Lore that exists, it is to share what the Lore officialy is! The Night Elves are not the hippies you are making them out to be. I have provided cites to prove this, I've even posted a sketch by Metzen, and still you refuse to acknowledge the facts. As for the orc refrences, I, too, felt that it was important to include that to show the cultural difference between a well known WarCraft race to the "newer" race. The Night Elves are a warrior race with a love of nature. They are feral to every extent of the word - including, to a degree, "savage". They are not the free-loving, sex-starved imps from Goldshire that players have made them into. This is a mockery to the service of WoWWiki and the brainchild of Metzen. --Azhandris 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Their animosity towards High Elves and Blood Elves are also very reasonable. From this page alone, all you would need is to read the first few paragraphs of the introduction and history. It was because the elves tried using arcane magic that such catastrophes happened to Azeroth. The highborne (which eventually would be the high elves and blood elves) were so greedy that they basically summoned Sargeras and caused the War of the Ancients. Even after such disasters, the high elves were still addicted to magic. The exile set forth upon them was definitely very reasonable, if not charitable.


 * Finally, although Tauren may have lived as long as NEs in Azeroth, their druidic knowledge is far less than NEs. The Tauren have been shamans much longer than they have been druids, as, from the tauren page says, "elements of druidism have been recently reincorporated into tauren society". Taurens ARE inferior to NEs in terms of druidic knowledge, but the NEs are actively aiding the taurens, as the taurens actively seek NEs for knowledge. You don't see NEs druids running over to Thunderbluff do you? Pzychotix 11:43, 8 August 2006 (EDT)


 * And "Archdruid" Staghelm's views of Taruen (which you have reproduced above) are NOT the opinions of the average Night Elf. I point to to Tyrande's interaction with Furbolgs in Eternity's End as signs of xenophobia. As a race where all the men worship nature, how would you like it if short-lived green and pink people suddenly turned up and started cutting down the forest you've preserved for ten thousand years? The concept of Night Elven superiority is a recent occurence, emerging after the destruction of Nordrassil, again perpetuated by Staghelm, and is not embraced by most Night Elves (as in the characters, not the players) or by the true leaders of Kaldorei society. --Ragestorm 16:14, 8 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I know the new edit of it is a reconciler, but I still think that the "bloodthirsty" section should be completely removed. --Ragestorm 19:28, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Yet again, I make a plea to remove the bloodthirsty section, and yet again, I am likely to fall upon deaf ears. --Ragestorm 00:16, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

Throwing in my 2 cents here: first of all, I don't think the comparison between orcs and Night Elves is either appropriate or entirely accurate (according to in-game lore, Orcs have no problem waging war as a means of what we would call ethnic cleansing - i.e, the elimination of the Quillboar from Durotar and the Barrens). Secondly, I think a lot of the characterization of Night Elves stems from a particular slant on guerrilla tactics - recall that for most of their history, the NIght Elves have been extremely restricted in their numbers (either by the effects of the Sundering, or the long sleep of the Druids), making open-field battles highly disadvantageous. Guerrilla combat is used by the Night Elves as a practical necessity. Thirdly, I think the section contradicts itself - the motive of the Night Elves is either the annihilation of their enemy or the security of their homeland, the latter of which I think is more accurate. Night Elves do not approach war as a game, rather they approach it as a means to protect their homes from invasion. Vikingkingq


 * Lore-wise, you're entirely correct. Here's the real problem: the WoWWikian who wrote that admitted that he based it on his opinon of night elf characters in WoW. Now, most night elves in WoW are in fact human users, so never minding the lore aspects, it's inaccurate anyway. --Ragestorm 18:52, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

The night elves are no better or worse than any of the other races. They have been described as having a deep concern with nature and have shown great compassion towards animals, as well as being loyal members of the Alliance. However, they are no angels either, as protective of the environment as I am, I doubt even the most fanatical anima rights activist would agree with them on their decision to react to the cutting down of trees with an suprise attack on unwary laborers. Interestingly enough, they ignore such behaviors when their allies do it, to the point that night elf NPCs can be seen tolerating and even working with other Alliance races who are actively engaged in deforestation on Azuremyst Isle. Thi proves a few things about the night elves: 1. They can be as brutal as anybody. 2. They certainly have less noble ideas about honor than the Orcs, Trolls, or Tauren. 3. They are capable of being incredibly unreasonable. 4. They are capable of being hypocritical. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

Edit war
We appear to be having a bit of an edit war over this, and it's not good. The removed section was cited, but I don't have the books to enlighten me as to how accurate it was. Can someone with the books in front of them say whether the section was paraphrased/copied/made up? If it was really in the books, then it's not a case of NPOV, it's a case of stating lore. -- Kirkburn  (talk) 12:57, 23 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Baggins has a good record with the RPG- he's a good person to ask. I reiterate that Petrus4 (above) stated that he wrote the section based on how he saw them played in-game. I apoligize for the edit war more of a major battle than a real war), but I went through the conventional channels numerous times, continually falling on deaf ears. --Ragestorm 14:52, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Antlers?
From various sources I have seen, those antlers pesent on Furion and Druids of the Claw were not ornaments, but natural growths from their head? Is this true? And if so, is this natural for Night Elven males, or does it have something to do with druidic magic? Omacron


 * Not sure about druids of the Claw, but Furion's antlers are definetly real. This is established in the War of the Ancients books, where they seriously start to grow out of his forehead. Even with that ignored, you can clearly see in his portrait and model from WC3 (and related concept art) that the antlers are not attached to any sort of clothing. It is implied that it is the mark of an Arch-Druid to bear antlers (which might say something about Staghelm's character). --Ragestorm 09:24, 25 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Also, note Staghelm's name. Stag. Helm. =) -- Kirkburn 09:26, 25 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Ironic, considering the antlers shown are sometimes those of a moose. --Ragestorm 13:32, 25 August 2006 (EDT)


 * If the hints of the night elves being, "Cenarius' favored children"(alongside dryads, and keepers who share night elves physiology) has a literal meaning it could be a connection to their heritage.Baggins 17:49, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * illidan (furion's brother) has horns which he gained when he consumed the skull of guldan whch gave him extrem demonic powers along with wings horns and hooves.perfaps with furion and other elves its somthing they gain when they become one with the earth or somthing like that.


 * I think it's just part of being a druid over time they become more like a dryad/keeper of the groveGwyain


 * I read from the article of Broll Bearmantle that the antlers are a very rare feature among night elves but it means great things in the future. Would this solve the problem? --Nuti 16:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Essentially. Like I said, we're pretty sure that antlers are the mark of an Archdruid.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 05:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Could someone add an additional backround
I do not see how why the Night Elves would have joined the alliance other than ballance for WoW. The reasons for the Undead join the Horde has been explained by Blizzard many times and it's explanation is the same as the one found here on WoWWiki. However, the only explanation for the Night Elves to not be a part of the Horde is that they are destructive to the nature, Warsong Lumber Yard is then given as an example. The humans, dwarves and gnomes are much more destructive to nature. Redwood has almost been completely stripped of trees, Elwyn forest is in the process of being stripped and the lumber mill in West fall indicates trees were around there at some point. The only Orcs have proven them selves to not be a part of the legion any more. They are truly searching to rebalance their souls. Also the Tauren and Night elves have been friends in the past which makes for a good middle man. I would like a further explanation to why the night elves allied with the Alliance.


 * Think about what areas are being logged though - the orcs are cutting down trees in traditionally night elven land (i.e. Ashenvale) - the humans, gnomes and dwarves are only doing it on their own territory, on another continent. -- Kirkburn (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I think that the Forsaken being added to the Horde and the agenda of Staghelm also have something to do with it. The Night elves dislike the undead for numerous reasons, and it has already been established that Staghelm's mysterious agenda has consequences for the race as a whole. Additionally, the Alliance is looser in loyalty than the Horde; the night elves could join the Alliance and provide a minimal amount of support, while they would be unable to do so by joining the far more centralized Horde. --Ragestorm 18:35, 3 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I agree, except for with the whole "looser in loyalty" thing. The Forsaken and Blood Elves are loose in loyalty to the Horde, while the Trolls and Tauren are definite parts of it. The Night Elves wouldn't HAVE to be loyal to the Horde if joining them. Plus, they don't NEED to join anything at all. I also think the Cenarius thing is stupid, since if you played WC III you'd know that the NE thought "the outsiders did it" not the Orcs specificly. Saimdusan


 * in the game it is mentioned that the tauren and forsaken are working together because the tauren beleve that they may be able to return them to a normal state. the fact that the orcs are ripping down the forests also acts as fodder for there oposition to the horde. but then there is also the humans to who also have logging camps which is confusing. and the fact that the blood elves broke away from the alliance in WC3 (which means they either side with the horde or the burning legion. yet in the end there are actually 3 major factions of blood elves, the ones on the horde, the ones with kale and illidan, and the scryers [dont know the speeling])

acting as more incentive for the elves to side with the alliance stormrage1313666

Age?
Call me a lore newbie (that I am), but what do you think of the general age range of a player character night elf in WoW? I have been wondering about that for some time now. (Also, might be an useful factoid o add in the main page too.) Akx 01:17, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

As in the age of the actual character? Probably several hundreds of years, if not thousands. I'm not familiar with the particular lifespans of night elves, but I suspect it's somewhere around that area. Pzychotix 03:42, 5 September 2006 (EDT)


 * Even without actual immortality, the Night elves are incredibly long-lived. Hundreds or even thousands are not unknown. I'd say that they live at least as long as high elves. --Ragestorm 13:39, 5 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I think the PC characters are actually probably quite young. just into their adulthood(young in terms of night elves). none of them were in the second invasion it seems(i certainly never met an archer or huntress named legoolass or drizzt). just as the PCs of other races are likely just reaching adulthood, or just waking up in the undead case.--Haddon 05:24, 12 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Night elf age milestones: 300 years, mature. 500 years, middle-aged.  650 years, old.  700 years, venerable.  Information from the WoW RPG core book.  Of course, there are many night elves well over 700 years-old due to the fact that they just recently lost their immortality. --Kakwakas 01:09, 10 October 2006 (EDT)

This is all taken from the RPG books, correct? ive not read them myself, but im pretty sure it states something along those lines in the war of the ancients trilogy. so the night elves in game may be 200-300 years or so old. making them far older than their counterparts of any other race, including the high elves. --Haddon 05:24, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

There is something I don't really understand. If all the male became druids and entered the Emerald Dream, that means there shouldn't be any Night Elves born for the last Ten Thousand years. That means we shouldn't be getting any Night Elves age hundred and stuff. They should either be several thousand or just borned. Pardon me if I say anything wrong as I have not really read up on Night Elves between War of the Ancients and the Third War. --Invin Dranoel 13:09, 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Not all of the males necessarily became druids, and even if they had, not all them would have been of age at the time. The ones not yet matured (all of those less than 300 years old) likely remained awake. In addition, some druids had to stay awake to train new druids. It's possible that the sleep/wake time is cyclical, that the time spent asleep varies depending on the druid's power, or that the women woke up some of the druids ever few hundred years or so. --Killiana 2:15, 28 Fabruary 2007 (EDT)


 * Yeah, the players in the game, and NPC's indicate not all NE are druids or fighters, like all societies, NE civilization needs crafters, builders, farmers, artisans and so on, many NE males will be of these career paths, and I dare say they make up the majority of night elf male population, meaning there is a fully functional breeding population of men to sire the next generation of players (and NPC's). Also the healthy population of male druids, players and NPC's indicate that the Emerald dream isnt a requirement that all druids must fulfill all in one go. Perhaps there is a threshold in druidic power and knowledge when a young druid must first enter the Emerald Dream, however this is purely speculation on my part. --Nurizeko

in WC3 illidan and furion were 15032 years old, but darnassus is the new world tree so the night elves have new immortality right? the tree is where they draw there magic from. also the tree in WC3 on hyjal and in wow and dwarfed by the size of darnassus, the new tree is many times bigger. user:stormrage1313666


 * Actually Nordrassil (the old world tree) was blessed by the Dragon Aspects where as Teldrassil (the current world tree) was not and was planted because Staghelm is and idiot and wanted the Night Elves to have there immortality (which was unsuccessful). All of wihich is supported by lore (War of the Ancients and a lot of other things).Gwyain

Though none of the playable races are immortal the draenei live abnomraly long, the blood elves are seconded by that than third is perhaps trolls because night elves came from trolls somewhere along the way, than finally nightelves. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Teldrassil, not Darnassus is the new World Tree, and it doesn't work. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

i think the trolls have a normal life span. its the magic source that gives immortality. the dranei have the narru, the night elves have the well of eternity and blood elves either use both the nether storm and what ever illidan is supplying them with. (high elves used the sun well). plus in the wc3 manual it has a section on immortality and elves do qualify as immortal. (all imortal beings can still die of physicaly being injured, but not of age) user:stormrage1313666

they CERTANILY don't live as long as blood elves without immortality(which blood elves ahd too). i think blood elves outlive them by about 200-300 years, a small amount comparing how long they already have lived. the draenei don't live long naturally like that elves and they have never had imortality but with the naarus aide of preservaation and Light they are able to make the elves lifespan look like tiny ants. they live arund 50k years? lol...--Rahnumed 01:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Alternatively we look at Life spans ... both elves and draenei (given how they're described in Rise of the Horde) do have naturally long lifespans. 01:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is my understanding that Night Elves, and through genetic off branching, High/Blood Elves, are long lived to an extent. Whether this was due to connection to the Well of Eternity, or just physical longevity, has yet to be seen. Draenei are in a similar situation, as it is unclear whether or not their longevity is fueled by the Naaru or not. However, it is reasonable to assume that many Draenei are far older than any Night Elf ( Eredar warlocks being present at the War of the Ancients, though it is unclear how long the Eredar were minions of Sargeras before that.) But it is my understanding that, magical sources aside, elves in general are still incredibly long lived. Also on the subject of the tree, Teldrassil, it was not given the blessing of the Dragon Aspects as Nordrassil was, therefore it possesses none of the same benefits. Were they to once again bestow their blessings, then immortality would certainly be possible.


 * Malfurion, Illidan and Tyrande must be at least 10,000 years old, since they were alive at the time of the War of the Ancients. In comparison the longest lived high elf I know of only lived for 3,000 (Anasterian Sunstrider). Eredar are able to live for at least 25,000 years, examples are Velen, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden and Jessera of Mac'aree. Although I suppose draenei are blessed by the naaru, and man'ari have whatever powers Sargeras gave them. Jormungand01 (talk) 18:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Arcane
Just a question for all you people who read this. Under 'class notes' in the main article, it says that, quote: ...In contrast to most depictions of fantasy Elves, the Night elves do not practice arcane magic. Pardon me if I totally missed on the point of what it is saying, but the druid spells 'Moonfire' and 'Starfire' don't count? They deal arcane damage in the game at least, but perhaps it should be clarified that 'arcane magic' is referring to the bloodelf/highborne-style of arcane magic, and not 'moon'-style (for lack of a better way of putting it). Invadergir 15:39, 20 November 2006 (MST)


 * Those spells are drawn from the natural world, technically utilizing the ambient arcane magicks found in nature. By the term "arcane magic" we mean the sort where you wear robes, carve sigils, and mutter words of power, which the night elves do not do. --Ragestorm 17:49, 20 November 2006 (EST)\\


 * Note that is "'majority' of night elves do 'not' do". There are a few exceptions to the rule, but they remain in hiding, if found out are banished from night elf society, and likely in time start going through physical changes changing their skin color closer to that of high elves. Give them enough time and the skin color/hair color may turn, ruddy or black with overuse of arcane magic (depending on source of magic). Blood Elves have been turning more ruddy due to various sources of arcane/fel magic. One high elf that joined the scourge turned dark due to overuse of arcane/necromantic magics.Baggins 17:59, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * True, but do you agree that the spells references above do not count as "arcane"?--Ragestorm 18:58, 20 November 2006 (EST)


 * Aren't those who wear robes, carve sigils etc technically using ambient arcane anergies also? Or, is this more to do with the attitude when using these magical energies that determines the nature of the magic? And, don't many night elves wear robes? O_o Again... i seem to be confused on which definitions of arcane to which spells exactly we are talking about. If mages are using the same latent energies in nature as druids are, then I don't see a difference from, say, Arcane Missiles and Moonfire spamming (besides the obvious result being that the druid runs out of mana quickly :P )--Invadergir 10:36, 21 November 2006 (MST)


 * By "ambient" or "latent," I mean the little bit of Arcane magic that's everywhere. Mages and the like are using "waking" or "academic" arcane magic- they're pulling their power directly from the underlying arcane, rather than touching the part of it that's present in nature, as druids do. Druids touch the ambient arcane in spells, but that isn't the basis of their spells, while mages use the arcane in everything.--Ragestorm 13:20, 21 November 2006 (EST)

There are natural arcane vs. unatural arcane in the rpg (bear with me I'm paraphrasing from memory, and might have the exact description somewhat off). Natural arcane is generally non-corrupting, where as unatural sources of arcane are. Moon magic is usually derived from a divine source (elune), though it might share similarities with a "natural arcane" source. A runemaster for example accesses the natural arcane through use of runes(runes are based on natural patterns in nature), a mage would use unatural way of accessing the arcane. Because natural arcane is less common than unatural arcane, when arcane is mentioned it usually refers to unatural arcane. The differences are subtle but they are seperate. For that matter, fire, frost, and arcane mage trees are all parts of the "Arcane", though in wow they are seperated into seperate types of damage. Baggins 13:27, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Spells like Moonfire and Starfire may deal arcane damage in the game but that is only because of game mechanics and has nothing to to with the lore. People shouldn't try to make up their own lore explanations for that stuff when even Blizzard says it's only game mechanics and not part of the lore. If you want an official Blizzard quote on that you can find one here (Caydiem's post from 9/27/2005 11:04:11 AM PDT). She writes:

"While Hunter and Druid spells are classified as "Arcane" damage mechanics-wise, it isn't arcane in lore. It's magic based on the beliefs of the people, technically "holy" power. It is not the destructive elemental force that split the Night Elves apart."

This wasn't the only time it has been stated by a Blizzard representative on the official forums that the druid's "arcane" spells aren't really arcane according to lore, by the way. --Foogray 05:59, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * Well-said! the perfect explaination!--Ragestorm 09:17, 24 November 2006 (EST)

To clarify nothing in my previous post about the lore from the rpg contradicts anything Foogray said, as far as I can tell.Baggins 09:57, 24 November 2006 (EST)


 * it's actually Divine spells druids cast since it comes from nature on the Aspects. Also it if they did use Arcane spells they would become High Elves within a week.Gwyain

Alliance
Here's something I never found a good answer for: just why did the Night Elves join the Alliance? With al the whining about the new races, no one even thought about the old.--Ragestorm 21:47, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Its covered in WOW manual IIRC, and certainly in the APG, I'll try to do a quick synopsis later on.Baggins 22:19, 1 December 2006 (EST)


 * well it could have started when the orcs were deforesting ashenvale for lumber. the elves probably tryed to defend it and got mixed up in the war. (just a possability not sure)

Simple,Malfurion who would have wanted to stay neutral as part of the Cenarion circle and had a good relationship with the Horde. Left to the Emerald dream and Staghelm split a significant portion of night elves from the Cenarion circle and planted that horrible tree. Staghelm was also against tauren druids because he is a racist. Zarnks 03:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You can't really blame Staghelm for this, given that Tyrande is the head of the government. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't it because the orcers killed Cenarius? Tomatketchup 15:18, 19 September 2007

I see it this way, they attacked the Horde upon meeting them in Warcraft III, not realizing that the Horde had vast physical as well as numerical advantages against them. The Horde counterattack took over pretty much all of the Southern part of Ashenvale. Now, the Night Elves want their lands back, but the Horde won't give their lands back, because A. The night elves attacked them and B. They took the land before the peace was declared so they don't see any reason to give it up. Which leaves them completely outnumbered by a force its extremely hard to beat without superior numbers due to their size, strength, and resistance to damage. They wanted to have allies so that in case their relations with the Horde went sour, they weren't completely doomed. Lckyluke372 20:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC) Maybe they joined the Alliance at the end of Third War. I mean together as an "Alliance" with the Horde, they fought the Legion and their brainless undead. The Horde just withdraw from the Alliance while the Night Elves stayed. How about that? PS: I'm new here. User: Arthur

I think that the night elves joined the Alliance for the following reasons: They really dislike the orcs, who killed Cenarius, they generally view undead as abominations to the natural world, they have been enemies of trolls for a very long time, and the tauren have befriended the orcs much too fiercely for the few tauren druids to make much difference. --Mesethusela 23:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The orcs were corrupted at the time of Cenarius' death, so they can't really be held responsible. The Horde aren't really friends with the Forsaken, in fact Thrall was initially going to turn them down. It's very unlikely that they'd have met any trolls in the last ten thousand years, since the only ones left in Kalimdor were far to the south in Tanaris, and night elves and tauren have co-existed peacefully for millenia and even aided one another in the past. Jormungand01 (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I've heard that The Night Elves felt that they could not stand alone in the wars that we're coming if the Burning Legion returned, and they felt that since the Orcs killed Cenarius they could not side with them which leave the Alliance left to join. Btw, the Alliance deforested the lands aswell under the third war.

I would think that they would join the horde, as their culture, (naturalistic, more rustic) would fit well with the horde, but for some unknown reason they sided with the humans, (who at the time ,and now are working with the high elves, something else the night elves might not like). Talk Contribs  02:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it was more a last minute decision on Blizz's part, not truly anything lore-wise. Because even today, the night elves remain very reclusive and stay well away from most Alliance affairs. If you notice, anywhere not related to the night elves directly, you'll find hardly any of them, but you'll see many of the other races. Night Elves are very neutral, especially considering in the Battle for Mt. Hyjal you'll see an Alliance area, a Horde area, and a Night Elf area separate from the other two. Only lately have there been more activity from them in aiding the younger races, and even then, you'll see them more as neutral NPCs. My take on the lore explanation of it was because of Fandral Staghelm. But it wouldn't make too much sense since I'm sure he despises the other races of the Alliance. But it could also be to balance out the game, as far as the druid class goes. If the Night Elves joined the Horde, the Horde would've had the only Druids AND Shaman until BC where Shaman would be on the Alliance as well. Mykael Mourningsun

Couple comments
Since the low use of technology actually is part of the lifestyle of the night elves, and since the Lifestyle and Technology sections flow into each other well, is there really any need for that 'Technology' header?

I notice this page doesn't have an inspirations section; any historical reason for that or should I just assume no one's gotten to it yet? I'll tackle it if it's the latter.--Tls 00:06, 31 December 2006 (EST)


 * They're a major modification of dark elves (AoW mentions "Dark elves" not "Drow"). the only reason that there isn't an inspiration section is because the Tolkieners here couldn't find a passage in the Silmarillion relating to druids and women who rode Amazon-like upon hippogryph mounts. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 00:35, 31 December 2006 (EST)

Racial leader
Is it Fandral Staghelm or Tyrande Whisperwind the real racial leader of the night elves? --Sul&#39;jin 21:52, 31 December 2006 (EST)


 * Malfurion, really. But Tyrande in his absence. Fandral is just the druid leader (though he wants to have more say). -- 22:05, 31 December 2006 (EST)


 * Tyrande is the official head of the government, but power is balanced between Tyrande's Sisters of Elune, Shandris's Sentinels, and Staghelm's faction in the Cenarion Circle. Since the Sentinels usually act as the Sisters' military branch, there is no real difference, so the Night elf Government is a polarized battle between the Sisters and the Cenarions. Staghelm seeks to replace Tyrande, but she would win even if they held elections.
 * Think of it as an oligarchy, with a pseudo-democractic two-party system.
 * In short, Tyrande.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:00, 31 December 2006 (EST)

Sadly, the state of affairs with the alliance, there is no true government or military hieararchy currently so lots of people are competing for power, according to Brann. Although this problem is more prevalent with human alliance members, than other races.Baggins 23:04, 31 December 2006 (EST)


 * The Kaldorei only have one government with two poles, not several nations with five poles each. The Dwarves have a monarchy, and the Gnomes have a tyranny (in the classical sense). Yep, the humans definetly have the short end of the stick. FIY, Sul'jin's question was answered some time ago.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:09, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Indeed Tyrande is the racial leader. But I don't get why Staghelm is the PvP-racial leader :S Blizzard makes me confused sometimes.--Odolwa 12:54, 1 January 2006 (EST)


 * I'm tempted to say that Blizzard likes Tyrande so much that they don't want anyone to attack her. I think I read somewhere that if you do attack her, not only does her glaive do thousands of damage, you immediately get zerged by the rest of the Sisters. So if she doesn't kill you in melee, you probably dies from the dozens of starshards ripping at you.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:50, 1 January 2007 (EST)

So lore-wise Tyrande is the racial leader (excluding absent Malfurion), but PvP leader is Staghelm. That's all I wanted to know. Anyway, I've heard about few successful raids on Tyrande, so she might not be that powerful. --Sul&#39;jin 10:47, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Maybe you're right, Ragestorm, but that only proves Blizzard being strange. If we take Thrall for instance, who probably is the leader that has gotten the most publicity throughout games and novels, and has been portrayed as one of the most honorable individual ever to exist. They had obviously no problem to let people slaughter him. I vote for Tyrande being changed into the PvP-leader aswell, to fit the lore!--Odolwa 21:18, 1 January 2006 (EST)

Let us kill young Wrynn, while we are at it!!!! The manual of the game made a big deal about him being leader of stormwind, LOL :p...Baggins 15:23, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Or even better, taking back the real king (Varian Wrynn) and making him the leader. It's pathetic knowing that the last proud kingdom of men are ruled by a black dragon and a nine year old kid ;P --Odolwa 21:28, 1 January 2006 (EST)


 * That's called dramatic irony. If WoW were a TV show, the whole Onyxia/Katrana thing would seal the deal for a new season. As is, we have no idea what's going on. You're right, though- it is very unusual to have separate PvP and Lore leaders (although, if you're in the mood to overanalyze, one could say that the separation is a secret sign of the power struggle between Tyrande and Staghelm).-- Ragestorm (talk · contr)

Question About Name Change
Why is it kaldorei when the name is a compound word? Kal = Stars, Dorei = Children of. Similarly, Quel'dorei (Children of Noble Birth, and Sin'dorei (Children of the Blood). That's how it's displayed in game, that's how the Elven language works according the Encylopedia. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/576.xml http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/361.xml Vikingkingq


 * On the second page you linked, the term "kaldorei" is listed, spelled and capitalized exactly like that. It's the same on the night elf page of the encyclopedia,  and in World of Warcraft.--Aeleas 02:00, 11 January 2007 (EST)


 * With regards to quel'dorei, the apostrophe may have been added because they were originally a caste of society, not a race. Kaldorei has always been a race. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:45, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Malfurion a "Highborne-turned-druid"?
I've not come across any sources that said he was a highborne. In fact, I remmeber it being said that he and Illidan were NOT Highborne. There a source that says they were? -Tharion_Greyseer 10:33am, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * If the article says that, it is wrong; the Stormrage family is decidedly not Highborne. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:57, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * Third paragraph of the article: "As the portal grew close to its completion to allow the Dark Titan entry to Azeroth, a small band of kaldorei led by a Highborne-turned-Druid named Malfurion Stormrage realized the threat posed to their entire world by this nameless evil and the now-crazed Azshara." -Tharion_Greyseer 12:19pm, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * right now im reading the WC3 manual and it say "illidan was one of the few non-highborne practitioners of magic" meaning nither were ever highborne
 * yes neither of them were highborn, they were both the few non-highborne magic users. Talk Contribs  02:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

They aren't Highborne because that was back when it was a caste, not a subspecies of Night Elves. Malfurion had little knowledge in magic just as Illidan had little wisdom in Druidism. They also grew up in Suramar, a city far from Zin'Azshari. All Highborne lived within the palace under Azshara's "watchful" eye. They would've been along the lines of the Moon Guard, who were sorcerers who seemed to use moonlight based spells, but had no affiliation to anyone other than themselves and answered to no one but a higher ranking Moon Guard or the Queen herself. Illidan, however, did become a Highborne. He became one when he went to Zin'Azshari to pledge himself to the Highborne's service. Sargeras then branded him with the eyes and tattoos. And later during the third war, he worked with Highborne descendants; Blood Elves and Naga. Mykael Mourningsun

Trivial
I dont think it needs to be here, but I'm not certain enough to remove: should the Shadowmeld/eating trivia remain? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Not lore, but a useful gameplay tip.-- 00:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps transplant (or duplicate) to the Shadowmeld article?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

racials
Racial Traits, +5% agility is not listed.. forgot name. 14:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That would be because they don't get a 5% increase in agility don't think they ever did.Joeking16 17:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Transformation
If a Night Elf uses arcane magic, they become a High Elf, if they directly start using fel magic, will they skip the transformation from Night Elf to High Elf and go straight to Blood Elf? Mr.X8 22:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, let's see Illidan and other night elf demon hunters use fel magic, and they haven't turned into high elves or blood elves have they (although they have started turning into demons through metamorphesis)? Also, not all arcane using highborne have turned into high elves, or blood elves. On a related note fel magic is a type of arcane magic, although its much darker form of arcane. The processes of change are tricky, probably involve many factors, that we do not understand.


 * Why do some change quickly, while others apparently took years to change, or some avoid change entirely? Why do some class types seem to cause physical changes faster, while others don't? Could the fact that high elves culture revolved around the day rather than night be a factor as well (perhaps the sun having something to do with their change)? I'm sure there are endless quetions we could ask, and we probably won't get answers.Baggins 00:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Guess you're right Baggins Mr.X8 00:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Also note that there's a lot more to being a blood elf than just using fel magic. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually demon hunters use fel,shadow and arcane magic,all arcane and corrupting sources but remain night elves. Zarnks 02:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Although it should be noted that "shadow" is a game mechanic in WoW that represents both arcane and divine magic. It can represent fel magic in case of warlocks, or darker type of divine in the case of priests, or voodoo for trolls. Its not exactly a true "type of magic", but a general term that covers several non-connected branches of magic.


 * Also "arcane" in WoW is also a game mechanic, which represents both Arcane based spells and Divine based spells (depending on the class). In the lore it is not a field unto itself, but rather its a general term that covers several branches of magic, including, fel, fire, earth, frost/water, air, etc which are all forms of arcane. It has nothing to do with anything Divine. As a side note elemental magic, such as earth, fire, water/frost, and air, can also originate from divine forms of magic as well, but its a different form of magic, than the Arcane elemental spells.


 * Nature magic is a game mechanic in WoW as well, that represents only divine caster spells, however its established in The Last Guardian that there is a sub-field within Arcane magic, called Nature magic as well (dealing with wizard spells having to do with making plants grow, and other things). In other words there are forms of Nature magic that come from divine sources, and forms of Nature magic that come from the Arcane, but the two kinds of magic are very different.


 * For those that didn't get it, these mechanics don't exist in other sources such as Warcraft III, Novels or the RPG. So demon hunters in those sources behave very differently as far as abilities and type of magic they can use, than how WoW is set up to "mimic" how they acted in Warcraft III or the RPG.


 * The Shadow School and Arcane School simply do not exist as a "types of magic" in those sources, at least not presented as it is in WoW's mechanics. The shadow does appear in the rpg, but is is more of a religion and concept belief of the Forsaken than a School unto itself, and falls only under divine magic (as such there is no such thing as "Shadow-based damage"). As I mentioned before Arcane covers alot of things, including fire and frost rather than being separate from fire and frost. There is no such thing as "Arcane-based damage".Baggins 03:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Woah-woah, hold up. Traditional Demon hunters don't use dark or 'fel' magic. They used arcane magic, simular to the high bourn. The only reaso we see demon hunters using dark and the fel, is because of characters such as Illidan. Where they have taken very unnatural paths to become stronger, basically sighing away there life to kill demons which they are slowly turning into. But, allthough that was the original path to use arcane- Things have turned for the worst, I don't know if I can ever call them demon hunters anymore. Take Illidan for example, no one calls him Illidan the demon hunter, its the Betrayer! But thats off topic...
 * What I wanted to point out is because of there constant slaughtering of demons and the abuse there bodies and souls endure, they don't intentionaly use the fel or dark magic, its more of an accident that comes wioth the job. Double_Fury 15:23, 15 January 2008

Actually, traditional demon hunters do use fel magic. In fact, that is a fairly large part of their class. They often drain the power from demons when they fight them, and use that against them. If you read about them in their section, you will find out all you need to know, including the fact the demon hunters channel energy through their war-blades. In the WarCraft III description, it clearly states: They wield demonically charged warblades in battle and even call upon demonic energies to augment their formidable combat skills. It also states that They made a pact, long ago, to fight against the forces of chaos using its own terrible powers against it. --Mesethusela 23:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)



well if this is not a mistake the way the transofrmation happpens between night elves and high elves is when they use fel magic there are large amounts of diffrent consequnces. In the war of the ancients the Highborne(Future Highelves)turned themselves into Satyrs in order for the promise of infinite magic(this means they used felmagic). But the remaining Highborne fought against Malfurion who wanted to get rid of all arcane magic. They where later banished and traveled to Quel'Thalas and built the city of Silvermoon around the sunwell which was using arcane magic. When the scourge attacked the sunwell in the warcraft manga was being converted a fount of necromancy. But the remaining high elves managed to destroy the sunwell according to the patch notes of 2.4. Then when KaelThas tried stealing the energy of tempest keep. Tempest Keep was a fount of Narru energy which is light. When Kael'Thas left Illidans army and went back to Quel'Thalas it is speculated he was brought to Kil'Jaedan and was promised infinite magic. Kael'Thas crazed to restore the hunger for magic he accepted and went to the Isle of Quel'Danas(Sunwell Grove) Where his practice of Felmagic transformed him into a fel elve many of his followers also suffered and where now in the Burning Legion's Ranks.

The process of a Night Elf turning into a Blood Elf would be impossible. Night Elves can only become Highborne, which is a subspecies of night elves who are more pale and use arcane magic. High Elves appeared due to the evolution of those highborne who fled to form Quel'Thalas and actually obtained an addiction to consuming magic. Blood Elf was originally a subspecies of High Elf just as Highborne are to Night Elves, only the differences are darker skin tones, hair and green eyes; which have become genetic, making them a newer race. Felblood Elves are a further state of this transformation, just like Mag'har orcs becoming Chaos Orcs, and eventually Fel orcs, the green orcs being similar to Wretched Blood Elves, only not as extreme in the sapped energy. And that picture of Kael from Magister's Terrace is not a felblood elf state, it's a Wretched Blood Elf state. Those are both high elves and blood elves who have been deprived of consuming magic. Illidan would be more like a "Felnight Elf" since Felblood Elves exhibit similar traits to his own: Wings, claws, horns, fangs, and even tattoos. Only Illidan would be an extremely progressed state of this due to his consuming a very powerful fel artifact after being granted power by Sargeras ten thousand years before. So Night Elves do not become High Elves, Blood Elves or Felbloods. They become Highborne and another breed of demonic elf. Mykael Mourningsun

Kaldorei
What is the difference between a Night Elf and a kaldorei?Mr.X8 00:31, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's in the first sentence of the article. Read it. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no difference between a kaldorei and a night elf. They are the same. Kaldorei is the darnassian name for night elf.- Skalaywag 07 March 2008

Night elf concept art - "Great keep"

 * On the first page of the Warcraft III Manual there was an image of a night elf hill fort. I'd like to host it on the site, but I've lost my manual...
 * Edit: Some help please? --
 * It was a 'great keep,' made up names can be deadly. I have lost mine too.-- 16:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Guess I'll have to wait for someone who still has theirs. :P --


 * There is a better version of it in the art of Warcraft IIRC, unfortunately I don't have my copy with me.Baggins 16:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure? I'm assuming that the book you're talking about isn't The Art of World of Warcraft. --


 * The Art of Warcraft is the original book in the series. I'm also pretty sure that the idea of night elf hill fort (which were literally forts within hills), at least of that specific design, were abandoned. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Whether they were abandoned or not, if the image is in that book I would like to see it. :) --


 * My scanner's busted, ask the hobbit. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * While I do have a working scanner, I didn't bring the book with me to Hawaii :p.Baggins 16:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Have it, but i'm gonna hvae to see if i still have the old scanner somewhere in the garage 20:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it, I made up that name based on its caption which calls it that, not the title. My bad.-- 21:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Warthok (and the rest of you guys ;) ) -- 21:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Edit: Maybe a bit of a premature conclusion, as I didn't eventually recieve it. Nevertheless, thanks for your efforts. If anyone has the image and finds the time to scan it in, I would appreciate it greatly. -- 10:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry V. Scanner is a very old nearly antique piece of trash that apparently doesn't work. In fact i think thats why i first disconnected it in the first place. Bumping this is hopes someone else can get the image to ya. 06:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

New intro
Like, don't like? Personally I like the flow and quotation of the previous one better. I should also point out that this is not a minor edit. Any thoughts? -_ Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm going over the edit it looks more like someone vandalized the intro, breaking NPOV, giving the night elves alot of completely negative traits (without citation essential pure fan opinion), then someone else came around and tried to fix it without making sure to keep track of previous one. yes the previous one was a direct quote, and probably needs to be edited for fair use however this current one doesn't even keep track of interesting tid bits established by Blizzard on the issue, both positive and negative traits for the race.Baggins 04:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've reversed it, to one that paraphrased, and extended a small portion of the original intro, but doesn't seem to effect the flow. You were right, it was not a minor edit. It also wasn't up to quality we are looking for. There were a few strange sentence fragments, capitalized race names, sentences that ended strangely (what is "corupt-."?), and some nasty spelling errors.Baggins 05:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Night elves, Moonwells and magic addiction.
From what I know, moonwells are created with water from the well of eternity, which is well known to be a well of arcane magic. And the night elves regularly feed off of their power. This raises an interesting question, if the moonwells are powered by arcane and night elves use them, are they just as addicted to magic as the blood elves? What would happen if they were prevented access to their moonwells? Would they go into withdrawal like the blood elves did? Just something I was thinking about. --JarHed 04:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * While the water from the well is in fact arcane energy, the danger and addiction seems to come from USE rather than proximity. In cases where the well was simply left alone it actualy was beneficial for azeroth and its citizens and posed no danger. Usage/abuse of it is where the problems begin. If the NE lost their wells i'm sure the nearby wildlife would cease to thrive as much as it did with them there, but the night elves themselves wouldn't suffer from withdrawl. At least thats what everything we know indicates. 05:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * They used moonwells all the time in warcraft 3, they were used to heal, replenish mana and for food. The article on moonwells says that "Enchanted pools throughout the Moonglade give the night elves their spiritual power" this sounds a lot like what the High elves were doing with the sunwell, feeding off the magics presence. You weren't able to tell that the High elves were addicted either until the sunwell was gone, and then all the high elves(Even the non-spell casting ones)went into withdrawal, the night elves may have a similar problem if all their moonwells(Which are really no different than small sunwells IMO) disappeared. --JarHed 20:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Night Elf wells healed nearby units. Just by standing nearby. Proximity. Just like the well of eternity helped kalimdor florish after the titans left. Night Elves don't try and use the arcane magic inherit in the waters to cast spells. High Elves on the other hand purposely draw from the Sun well to cast arcane spells. Abusing it. It's apples and oranges. Nothing we know hints that NE would go through a withdrawl w/o moonwells. 21:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Not all of the High elves even knew how to use magic, for a lot of them it was a proximity thing too, so the night elves are using the moonwells energy as much as a lot of the high elves did the sunwell. --JarHed 23:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No actualy they are not. Again its a matter of usage, and not nessesarly each individual but the society as a whole. The High Elves as a race had been surrounded by arcane magic usage all their lives. Not only was their way of life dependant on constant acts of magic, but they were physicaly addicted to it. On Dreanor orcs that never practiced arcane magics began to turn green just by being near the practicing warlocks, while those that escaped, the mag'har, remained brown. Night Elves, while once dependeant on arcane magic lost that dependancies a long while back instead replacing it with druidism. Moonwells caring the water of the WOE are still seen in many areas to help the area prosper, however the night elves don't draw directly from them, so there are no casters to become addicted and no arcane magic being used to make nearby NE dependant upon it. Furthermore, the NE after losing the well in the sundering were content and perfectly healthy without the well. So much so that Illidan was incarcarated for making a new one, knowing what trouble it could one day cause. 04:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Night elf casters are exclusively druids, who draw their power from the land itself, and priests, whose powers are granted by Elune Herself. No requirement for moonwells in either case. I must also serve a "non-editorial" warning for this discussion. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * What I meant was that most of the high elves were being affected my the arcane energies of the sunwell just by being near it, and the orcs skin turning green was also by them being near a type of magic, so what I am saying is that you can get changed or addicted by magic that you don't even use just by prolonged exposure. Durotans skin turned green by being near demon magic, High elves who didn't use arcane magic still got addicted by being near it, so Night elves who are still surrounded by arcane magic that they don't directly use are still being affected by it, moonwells arcane magic empower the night elves even if they don't use arcane magic directly, and they are used to the power the moonwells give them. I believe that because of this they might be dependent on the arcane power of their moonwells. And to the argument that the night elves were perfectly healthy after losing the well of eternity, it wasn't long enough for it to become apparent if they were addicted or not because Illidan made a new well only a few days after the first one blew up. Edit: You don't have to cast the magic to become addicted to it, just being near enough of it for a long enough time will do it is my main point. --JarHed 23:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I understood what you meant. These things happened to the High Elves and Orcs because they were near others who were actualy USING the magics, not just an untapped source. Proximity to the source doesn't cause the addiction but rather proximity to use of said source. The original Well made the Kaldorei strong. It made the wildlife on Kalimdor thrive. The trouble only started when they began using it to cast spells. Nothing has hinted that the relationship between the Night Elves and the Moonwells that you are proposing exists. About the sundering, the high elves who were addicted to the sunwell felt it the moment it was gone and they were cut off from it. Instantly. No such thing happened with the Night Elves after the Sundering. Moonwells also have a very small range and many many night elves live perfectly fine without one even in the same region, that includes Night Elves who until recently we know lived in areas abundant with moonwells and they are perfectly fine. Once again nothing has hinted that the relationship between the Night Elves and the Moonwells that you are proposing exists. 03:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The silithid were mutated from normal insects by the well of eternity, so it does not take magic use  to cause mutations but presence, and saying that the moonwells make wildlife thrive only helps prove my point, things around the moonwells soak up their energy like a sponge, so in effect they are feeding on its magic. Another point that helps prove this is that high and blood elves can feed their addiction just by being somewhat near a moonwell. However Night elves still might not be addicted to magic, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. --JarHed 00:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Each of those three points is innaccurate. The Silithid were transformed by the old gods (C'Thun specificly) not the Well of Eternity, The well of eternity simply nourished the world so that many different species could come into existance, one of which was the silithid (And yes i've seen the Qiraji article. It needs to be rewritten to be less misleading). The Well also tranformed a humanoid race (almost certainly trolls) into the NE, but it did not give them a dependancy. If these things were true every race on Azeroth would have been dependant and suffered withdrawl effects after the sundering. None but the Highborne (spellcasters) did. High Elves and Blood Elves near moonwells feeding off them are satifying a addiction that already existed, not one created by the moonwell. The NE aren't feeding an addiction because they lack one, not too meantion meantion NE function just fine w/o a moonwell. And as for the wildlife thriving, it does not prove a thing. The wildlife thrives, but does not nessesarly become dependant, just like the early kaldorei and the silithid. Nothing, and i do mean nothing, has even suggested or hinted that wildlife around moonwells is dependant on them, Its like saying 2+2=5. In order to become dependant they have to be exposed to USE of the magic. Moonwells when left alone have shown to be perfectly safe. I repeat myself, there has to be USAGE of arcane magic to cause addictions, even if only by proximity to usage. The Night Elven race does not have a magical addiction or dependancy of any sort. 02:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The Qiraji were created from the silithid by C'thun but the silithid were not created by him. The silithid were created by the well of eternity and C'thun decided they would be useful. And I said that they potentially could have a dependancy, and unlike the other races the night elves have stayed near the well of eternity and its magic, they usually have some of its magic around everywhere they go. And if the wildlife is doing better because of moonwells they may have grown dependant on the power moonwells give them. --JarHed 03:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The silithid were peaceful insectoids before being made Qiraji. The well is beneficial, this we know, but they werent magic addicted, antagonistic, etc...The Night Elves are often found far from Moonwells and while a moonwell is usually included in a settlement (but not always), not one scrap of lore exist to hint its because of any dependancy. They are usualy there because the NE or Cenarion Circle is trying to help the area. 05:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The siltihid were still created by the well so that disproves your idea that it takes magic use to cause mutation, if I was going by your idea I could put a pool of fel energy somewhere and not expect any corruption at all. My theory on magic addiction is that to become addicted it requires prolonged empowerment by magic, the sunwell was said to make the high elves stronger and it made them addicted eventually, moonwells are said to make the night elves and wildlife stronger so logically they could be addicted but not realize it until its too late. This as I already said is a possibility, blizzard could do this without seriously messing with the lore. --JarHed 17:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Created, not mutated. Proves nothing, we already know the well causes change around it, but no evidence points to a dependancy. 2+2/=5. Again, no evidence even suggests the tiniest bit of dependancy. On the contrary, many NE live perfectly fine w/o a moonwell nearby, including Night Elves that we know until recently were located in areas where there were moonwells. How is that explained? The evidence shows that there is no dependancy created by simply being near moonwells. Meaning if lets say blizzard goes off the deep end and gives the NE a addiction it would be a retcon, not a storyline progression.


 * I could easily say that all of warcraft is a bad dream Jim Raynor is having aboard the Hyperion, and no one could disprove me. Doesn't make it a plausible theory. This page is for discussing changes to the NE article. And while speculation is allowed it has to have some foundation behind it, which this theory does not. In fact it has things working against it. 17:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Going off topic as I don't really have anything to add to that discussion(think its plausible, not necissarily true), what source says the silithid were peaceful insectoids before the aqir? They could have been a wave of locus for all we know, the aqir(later the qiraji) may have just given them focus; i.e. the service of C'thun.Tweak the Whacked 06:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

As I recall Brann gives two legends for the origin of the silithid. Basically he brings up a chicken or the egg conundrum. He points out hearing in some stories the Silithid arose from the Qiragi. In the other the Qiraji arose from the Silithid. Additionally he implies that both are evil likely created by C'thun.Baggins 07:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Getting back on topic, the Moonwells are fed power from the second Well of Eternity up on Hyjal. And that well is kept in check by Nordrassil, meaning the arcane power in the Moonwells would be more like the divine arcane that would come from moonlight, i.e. Starfire, Moonfire, Starfall, only more for healing purposes than damaging, and are not pure arcane like the Sunwell and mage spells. And the night elves' Well of Eternity was damage because Nordrassil was in the Battle for Mt. Hyjal. So in a sense, night elves did go in a withdrawal: Loss of immortality. But they didn't lose any power. All thanks to the three Aspects who empowered the Crown of the Heavens to alter the well's power. And another 'withdrawal' happened in Nordrassil getting hurt, the druids cannot enter the Emerald Dream as easily. Mykael Mourningsun