Talk:Timeline (unofficial)

Untitled
It says something about Spoiler Protection of some sort, so that a reader has to select the text to see the information. It gives an example of this, but it does not occur in any part of the Timeline. What's the point of it then?--Neri 05:33, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

Math
I could have sworn that Warcraft 3 took place 15 years after Warcraft II, yet it's listed as 19 years. 6 + 15 does not equal 25. -Kongurous 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That date has been changed many times, the listing here is the most up to date resolution of the date and should be correct. I can't confirm because I don't know the detials or the source anymore, as i stupidly didn't make notes. Baggins, who heavily contributed to this behind the scenes can probably answer it better. --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal  23:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, seems its the result of changes post-wow to the timeline via the RPG and novels. See the more recent official timelines for details. --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 00:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

War of the shifting sands, problem.
the timeline on the main page shows the war of the shifting sands to happen before the war of the ancients, but that conflicts with events detailed in the war of the ancients trilogy. During the war malfurian was young and not yet mated to Tyrande, but in wow it is quite clear that malfurion's son was killed by General Rajaxx of the Quirajii, not to mention that during the war of the ancients malfurion was somewhat unknown and in the war of the shifting sands he was clearly a powerful leader of his people.


 * Malfurion doesn't have a son. You're confusing Malfurion with Fandral Staghelm.  -- Maenos 22:29, 14 November 2006 (EST)


 * In The War of the Shifting Sands Shiromar recalls the war "as if it were only yesterday and not a thousand years past" during the opening of the scarab wall. Not very precise but that may help place the war in the timeline. I cannot find any reference to the war as occurring prior to the war of the anchients as described above. Can anyone else locate such a source? Micron 22:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

It was said to to be one thousand years ago in TBC manual as well.Baggins 22:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

"The spirit of Balnazzar"
In the section of the article entitled Between 21 and 25 Years After the First War, there's a note that the "spirit of Balnazzar [...] possesses the body of the paladin Saiden Dathrohan." This seems inaccurate, since when you kill Dathrohan, he transforms into Balnazzar, not resurrects Balnazzar. It seems more likely that the dreadlord is actually masquerading as this paladin rather than possessing his body. See the article on Balnazzar for more information. I'd like to change that note to something more accurate but can't quite think of what that might be yet.


 * Well actually it is a possession, of a corpse.Baggins 16:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:29, 7 January 2007 (EST)
This timeline has been compiled and completele revised to match the latest official sources, taking retcons into account. The events and sources are now marked and offlinked from the timeline. This means all events Blizzard consider important and have provided an ability to order and determine relations by are present. This means no adding on random notes of events from the sources, as these are already included in the written accounts and the sources from Blizzard and would be very messy, difficult to place, and would result in admins needing to determine what what deserves to be added, and when enough is enough. It's better to leave this up to Blizzard. Feel free to question and discuss issues you may see, and make correction. I will be revising this personally on the release of each new source a information revealed from them. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 19:29, 7 January 2007 (EST)

To-Do

 * Rest of the In-Game books
 * In-game stories and pecies of text
 * War of the Shifting sands and other patch related stories from the official site
 * Double checking all the RPG placements

Update
Just to point out i'm no longer maintaining this page (infact, i stopped a long time ago now). I will however be updating the one in my userspace here from which anyone is welcome to update this one where they see fit. --Zeal 12:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Add the fall of the Betrayer?
Maybe we should add a few events to the latest facts of this timeline.--<span style="border-bottom:2px; cursor:help" title="Kirochi is the WoWWiki Bookkeeper Majordomo and a patroller"> K )  (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The Temple of Atal'Hakkar and the Gurubashi Empire
In the world dungeons page the temple's destruction is described as "over a thousand years ago". DO we have enough information to be more precise and relate the initial summoning of Hakkar to other events in the timeline or the Gurubashi empire's history? Micron 22:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

New Horde
Lord of the Clans and the New horde are misplaced. They would allow for Thrall to be only 10 year old during the liberation of the orcs, who's lethargy would have only lasted two years with this placement. Also, Lord of the Clans takes place at roughly the same time as Of Blood and Honor, which is listed as taking place ten years later.Tweak the Whacked 21:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well this is a difficult issue, but I recommend you look at all versions of the the timelines and note that LOTC is placed all over the place on every time timeline... There are issues with each one... Not even the ingame/TBC established dates match up with other timelines published or released in other locations. In anycase I forget where I put down the numbers, but LOTC placement has varied anywhere between 7 and 20 years before TBC depending on the timelines... --Baggins 23:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)!!!23:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a case of Blizzard not thinking or planning well.
 * There is no possible way for Thrall to have been found as an infant during the time calculated by The New Horde. No matter which timeline you use to place the events included it, they all prove the date in to be false. This means the presumed age (18-20) is also wrong.
 * Having said that, i've gone back over and expanded the span of LotC and other text that match it's events so they better reflect the length of events given by other timelines. Those events basically now span from 8-24. This leaves the New Horde starting around 14, which means Thrall was actually only 4-6 (as we only knew he was an infant, typically 1-2 years old, when found) when he started fighting, 6-8  when he escaped and 10-12 when he becomes warchief. Ridiculous i know, but it's just evident to how poorly the Warcraft timeline has been managed.


 * You can see my changes at User:Zeal/Sandbox/Source:Timeline (unofficial) -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 01:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Additions
I added in Ghostlands after Shadows of Ice, World of Warcraft (Wildstorm comic) immediately before the Burning Crusade (it occurs before the Exodar's crash, but perhaps after the Blood Elves have joined the Horde), and The Dragons of Outland immediately after the Burning Crusade, since it's fairly safe to assume that's when it'll be set.

I'm also curious about whether or not it might be a nice idea to include signifigant content patches and world events (which were referenced in the BC manual's "Then and Now: Conflict and Triumph in the World of Warcraft"), listed using their official titles. For example:

World of hostilities

 * 30
 * World of Warcraft RPG
 * Lands of Mystery
 * World of Warcraft
 * Battlegrounds
 * Assault on Blackwing Lair
 * Rise of the Blood God
 * Dragons of Nightmare
 * The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj
 * Shadow of the Necropolis
 * The Scourge Invasion
 * Alliance Player's Guide
 * Horde Player's Guide
 * Monster Guide
 * Monster Guide


 * 31
 * Rise of the Horde
 * World of Warcraft (Wildstorm comic)
 * Before the Storm
 * The Dark Portal Opens
 * World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
 * The Black Temple
 * The Dragons of Outland
 * The Gods of Zul'Aman
 * The Gods of Zul'Aman


 * 32
 * World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

I'm not sure exactly how some of the older stuff would fit in around the RPG books, though I imagine the Monster Guide would have to be after the Scourge Invasion. Input? Suzaku 23:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll address in more detail later, but theres re some inconsistancies that have made Ghostlands hard to place (but i see you've settled for the same placement as myself).
 * I had intended to added lore and events added by the large content patches, but hadn't got round to it yet. Seem to placed correctly at a glance.
 * Dragons of Outland certainly occurs post TBC, though it remains uncertain if it happens before 2.1 and 2.3 yet. I'd think it happens before them both. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 01:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, the thing about Ghostlands is that it couldn't take place that long after Shadows of Ice, only about the length of time it would take for Dar'khan to fly to Quel'thalas on his dragon (Frostwyrm? Well, whatever it is...).
 * Most of the WoW patches are guesses, really just there more for an example, though I did try to place them roughly in the right timeframe. As for the Dragons of Outland, it's hard to say, since it's also supposed to lead into Wrath content, which could very well deal with Kalecgos being enslaved and other issues with the upcoming Sunwell Plateau content patch. There's also the possibility there will be multiple books, which could span a signifigant amount of the Burning Crusade "cycle".
 * There's also the fact that most of the patch pages don't offer a great deal of information lorewise, so perhaps some articles detailing the major events of the World of Warcraft and Burning Crusade cycles could be called for? Suzaku 09:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The main thing to tage into account is that Sunwell trilogy and Lands of Conflict have to overlap.


 * 1. The first book of Sunwell trilogy shows tarren mill before its taken over by the Scourge.
 * 2. Brann Bronzebeard is journeying north on his way to plaguelands and later Quel'Thalas when he reachs Hillsbrad. He reaches it after its fallen and the Forsaken have already taken over.
 * 3. He reaches Quel'Thalas before Silvermoon has been taken back by the Blood Elves. The Blood Elves are still trying to fight back from Quel-Danas (Sunwell Island).
 * 4. Ghostlands takes place right after they have recaptured Silvermoon.
 * 5. Brann sends the book to his brother sometime later, and starts on his Lands of Mystery journey.


 * In other words both books occur in around the same period of time.Baggins (talk) 06:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Info goes where?
I am not sure where to put this or if it is even evidence. In the Last Guardian there are a few quotes about demons being on Azeroth in the beginning. "In the First Days, there were demons in the land, and great heroes arose to drive them out." "From that, the general belief is that when the demons were defeated, they were driven out of this world entirely. They were pushed out of the light and living, and into thier own domain." Rolandius (talk) 11:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Not here, that's for sure. :p Probably best to put a mention of early apperances of Demons in Guardians_of_Tirisfal to expand upon what's there. If my memeory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't) those extracts are in reference to the uncontrolled use of Arcane magic bringing in members of the Burning Legion and the need for a Guardian to exist to counter that. If not, then perhaps just in a an article about demons :S -- 20:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The Speculation tag is not an excuse for random crap
If you're gonna leave a BS statement like "but should be as accurate as, and more complete than, what Blizzard have provided" in the article, then you still need citations and references to justify where things go in the timeline. Using a Speculation tag does not exempt a page or section. -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 7:39 PM PST 5 Sep 2008

Mixed up dates
Currently people are adding information based on both the RPG standard (WoW in the year 30) and the website standard (WoW in the year 25). This means the Wrath of the Lich King supposedly starts before the end of the Frozen Throne. Since the article is mostly based on the RPG standard, please take that into account when copying dates from other sources. --LastStand (talk) 22:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that the rpg standard (isn't exactly the RPG) it is also the standard used by certain dates in The Burning Crusade quotes (Rexxar coming to azeroth about 30 years before TBC for example). The rpg has varied between 25 and 30 depending on source :p... Yes we know this subject is "f'uped". If you went with the website alone ingame dates will occur before they actually could have happened :p.


 * One possibility is to create two unofficial timelines one based on 25 standard, and one based on 30 year standard so that the two can be compared and show off where the problems really crop up.Baggins (talk) 22:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Dates and Context
I was wondering, is there a limit to what dates/events can be placed on the timeline-provided birthdates in the WCII manual, events mentioned but not actually shown in media? Or is it to be considered something more along the lines of a product chronology?

Another issue I wonder about, is whether it could be more informative and in-depth, using the products as reference for events rather than as listing installments themselves, narration being provided. Anyway, just a thought.--Hawki (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Recent history needs editing
The recent history section has been allowed to tail off. Even if we don't have dates, I still think that major events such as the Shattered Sun Offensive should be listed, in the order of occurance. Kimera 757 (talk) 03:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Major mistake?
According to ALL the timelines I've checked out, the novel Day of the Dragon (and of course its newly-released sequel Night of the Dragon) is listed AFTER the Warcraft II Expansion. Isn't this a major mistake, since the book tells about the rescue of the Dragonqueen? In fact, the briefing from the 5th orc mission in Beyond the Dark Portal (Dragons of Blackrock Spire) states: [...] With the Dragon Queen Alexstrasza rescued and the Dragonmaw clan captured by the Alliance... events occured in the Richard A. Knaak novel. So I think every timeline should be modified accordingly. What do you think?


 * The problem is that Blizzard has changed that date, just check the manual of Warcraft III or the timeline from the official site . I'm not sure (as I don't have the book) but I think that the novel Beyond the Dark Portal is told as if Day of the Dragon is after that war. But yeah it's a major mistake but from Blizzard not from the article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 18:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Haven't read Beyond the Dark Portal yet, I'll consider that afterward. Anyway since WC III release follows that of the novel (Day of the Dragon, 2001), Blizzard must have intended to make it happen subsequently. Also, the Battle of Grim Batol (on the official website) comes after the invasion of Draenor. The thing is, why did they choose to be so grossly in contrast with the WC II Exp storyline... wouldn't have been simpler to set the whole thing in the right way? Looks like an error done on purpose. However, I'm gonna read Day of the Dragon asap, hopefully that'll gonna clear the matter up... =) --Aurigon (talk) 19:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

You mentioned Night of the Dragon but I can't find it between the events in the timeline. Should be somewhere between WoW:BC and WoW:WotLK as it "provides insight into events leading up to Wrath of the Lich King". A mistake or is it still unclear where to integrate the events of the novel? --Cyrdaz (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Night of the Dragon is a follow-up to DotD, hence its events should take place right after in the timeline (and before the ones in Beyond the Dark Portal). The "insight into events leading up to WotLK" should be taken merely for what it is: simple hints. In Rise of the Horde, for example, the intros to each of the chapters are narrated by Thrall, where he makes references to the present situation of his people (prior to The Burning Crusade, that is). Aurigon (talk) 23:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because it's a follow-up doesn't mean it's chronologically right after. The book involves a draenei, Outland, and netherdrakes. It can't possibly take place anywhere BUT post-BC. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I said that just because the book was announced to be a follow-up to DotD... that means to me but one thing. Anyway I haven't read it yet, though I suppose it SHOULD be simple to understand whether it takes place, i.e., before the Third War or not. ;) Aurigon (talk) 16:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Wrong date?
It says on here that Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal was in the year 7 and Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos was in the year 25, which would mean 18 years of "peace" between the Second and Third Wars. I found this quote though saying "Their healing of the land was only two decades begun when the Third War came to Lordaeron." which means that there were 20 years of "peace" between the Second and Third Wars.Alliance Player's Guide, pg. 129 Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 03:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because "only two decades begun" sounds better than "only one point eight decades begun." Really, are you seriously trying to argue the difference between eighteen years and two decades? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to be accurate then yes I am. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Drak'Thul did say that Gul'dan had raised the volcanic islands "NEARLY twenty years ago" (my emphasis), so it was indeed less than 20 years between the end of Tides of Darkness and the beginning of the Frozen Throne. --Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 07:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Continuation
I'm not trying to inflact me ego, but this page is dead without my input. I made the stupid mistake of not making notes and logging a back and forth between me and Baggins during it's development.

Without such notes or understanding (lost to me now), the research would need to be done all over again. Having said that, i'd like to offer some insight into the intent and process behind this should others wish to take up it's challange and redo it from scratch.

The goal was not about setting dates, it was about establishing an order of events in relation to each other. Dating was only chosen to make viewing easier. Anything listed under a date was considered to fall anywhere between it and the next date.

When it came to solving retcons, the newest source (by release) was what was always chosen, no matter what. There was no consideration made for what issues and mistakes the changes bring about (namely character ages and spans of events). Trying to do anything more than that is pointless, as there's too many mistakes by Blizzard that can't be resolved without future retcons from them (to the point i feel even the simpler goal is likely a lesson in futility)

Sorry for not documenting it, and those who continue it have my sympathies. -- 02:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

The arrows
How do I add arrows after the words "ends" and "beginns"? --Frejh (talk) 15:45, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * You forgot to actually start the template is all. I've fixed for you and you can see what i did different here. -- 16:29, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

What is the King's Calendar?
Title says it all and is there more information about it? 15:53, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * A year later and nobody answered you. Well, I'll do :P It was an old way to calculate the timeline when warcraft: orcs and human was released. Since then, Blizzard droped the idea. You can see where it was used there: Chronicles of the War in Azeroth Guyomeprime (talk) 03:34, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Major events
While this page was edited up to a couple of months ago, major events in World of Warcraft have not been covered.

IMO, it's not enough to just say for year 31, "World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade begins",, but should also include major events, such as the death of Illidan and the destruction of the Sunwell. Similarly, it would help if new fans new which took place first; the Wrathgate, or the Battle of Hope's Chapel. Etc. I'm saying it needs some more detail. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs) 03:22, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Needs update
Cataclysm (and Cataclysm related media, like World of Warcraft: Shaman) have given us some more insight into the timeline that needs to be consolidated into the timeline here. For example, Shaman states that it occurs in year 27; should the timeline be retooled around that (being the most recent dates we've gotten) or should it be dismissed as flawed and not completely canon?Skreeran (talk) 11:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't know about a difference?
Got this response from GMs, let me know if it makes any difference to what we've got here. Aphetoros (talk) 23:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * "You are not authorized to download this attachment." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:52, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * GMs of a private server?-- 00:55, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't think so, put it on a friends site. Lemme check. Aphetoros (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC) This is from retail-- The Venture Co. Server, race changed Crescenthorn into a goblin named Vektog. Here's the screenshot.

Right, what do we think of this, or does it change anything? Sadly yes, my friends site was a private server (derp) but if you don't believe me, I'm Vektog on The Venture Company server, guild Blacktooth Grin, you can check some of those names in the screenshot as well. Apologies. Aphetoros (talk) 23:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, GMs don't really count as valid sources. They don't have direct access to CDev, and are probably using the same sources we are and making an educated guess. He also says it's been 2-3 years between Cataclysm and the END of Wrath, directly contradicting prior statements that there's no "time skip" between the two expansions. Finally, a doctored screenshot of a GM ticket would be very easy to create. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:16, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * What statements have been contradicted? Aphetoros (talk) 20:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Statements that there's no "time skip" between the end of Wrath and the start of Cataclysm. This is also supported by quests suggesting that the Shattering was a recent occurrence, and in The Shattering where it happens within a matter of months (maybe less) of the Lich King's defeat. The GM, however, says that 2-3 years have passed since Wrath of the Lich King. Basically, from everything we know, there's ultimately two possibilities: either the war in Northrend took one year, or it took three. There are, unfortunately, contradictory sources for this, so Blizzard needs to give a definitive answer on the subject. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The Shattering
I don't from where, but I thought the Shattering took place 3 years after the fall of the Lich King, not 1 year. (Luxor (talk) 10:21, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * World of Warcraft is set 5 years after Warcraft III, and the Cataclysm occurs 5 years after that (based on in-game statements about Edwin VanCleef dying five years ago and Archimonde dying a decade ago). The campaign in Northrend took almost three years from start to finish, with Arthas dying a few months before the Cataclysm. Egrem (talk) 23:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Change Cataclysm's Date?
From what I've seen ingame, it seems that WC3 happened 10 years ago and Vanilla was 5 years ago. I haven't read the Shattering, so I don't know what it says in it. It just seems that Blizzard have changed their tactic of each expansion taking a year. Just wondered if it would be possible to change the year of Cataclysm from 33 to 35. Just thought I'd better ask for permission first. Noelznliam (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There are conflicting sources, both in-game and out, on whether the war in Northrend lasted three years or one. The Shattering implies (though doesn't explicitly state) that it lasted one. An NPC in Hyjal says Archimonde was defeated ten years ago, making it three. Anduin is 13 now, and was 10 in Classic, making it one. Edwin VanCleef died five years ago, making it three. In my opinion, we should leave it as-is until Blizzard directly answers the issue. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:58, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, okay. Someone's changed Cata's date to 33 or 35 anyway. Noelznliam (talk) 16:04, 5 June 2011 (UTC)