Talk:Sylvanas Windrunner/Archive2

Untitled
''Discussions on Sylvanas's model does not belong here as this is not a forum. Warning: attempts to continue these discussions may result in an angry warning from the Head Bookkeeper.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)''

Will she ever become good again?
I think maybe when people kill the Lich King the first time she will become alive and thus good again and maybe Varithmas will take over the Forsaken -Gimodon


 * She is undead, just killing another undead or evil entity doesn't automatically make a corpse "alive".Baggins 22:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Shes undead because of a curse he used on her. Either way I think she will redeem herself somehow! -Gimodon

Why would she need to redeem herself? From her point of view, she has done quite a bit. Established the forsaken, helped bring her bretheren(both living and dead) to the horde, and is planning her revenge on Arthas and the scourge. What exactly needs "redeeming?" --Blayaden 23:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

In The Frozen Throne, Sylvanas, after her fail at killing Arthas states that she will Never stop hunting him.

Reedeeming most likely means she is to kill him, slowly and painfuly, and that it is by her hands that she would have him fall.

And in The Reign Of Chaos, Arthas dosen't curse her, he simply raised her and enslaved her as a necromancer does. As a necromancer cannot do anyting without mana, Arthas lost power to reign over her and other minds with the leak in Lich Kings power.

However, if Sylvanas was to hear of magic tp bring undead back to life, I think she would go great lengths to be alive again.

--Zealous 19.52:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Sylvanas is Good at Heart since she Battles the Legion and Arthas, Varimathras cannot take over since he is playing his own game, such as not killing Balnazzar who Enslaved the Scarlet Crusade and is Pounding the Forsaken 24/7. After Arthas is dead, she probably will become Neutral and only wish to command her Forsaken. But as for Varimathras soon he shall get an arrow plucked into his throat.
 * By that logic, Genghis Khan was a good guy too since he saved little kids from drowning. Sorry, but I don't think actions with good intent will redeem individuals of an evil mentality.  You could be a depraved cannibal who tortures his victims before eating them to get a couple of laughs and save a basket of kittens that overthrow an evil dictator  ( use your imaginations ), but the fact still remains that you're a depraved cannibal.  --Super Bhaal 18:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Since when was Lady Sylvanas "evil"? It's almost the same as most players choosing Alliance because they want to play as the "good guys". I agree with Blayaden. She's done so much for the Forsaken and the Horde. What more does she need to prove that she's already "good"? (Not to comfortable with the terms good or evil cos I personally believe both sides simply reflect a difference of opinion.)". --Bahmat

You need to consider that not only did she order several people to be possessed and robbed of their free will, she lied to Garithos and had him murdered when he'd fulfilled his purpose. Furthermore, she has ordered the production of a plague which will ravage and destroy all life on Azeroth. She might not be "evil", but she's anything BUT good, and never will be (I hope). --Solbur


 * After all the things Garithos did towards the blood elves (and other races besides human) he kinda deserves what he got. Another way of looking at it, is that he and his humans would have been a threat to the newly formed Forsaken, and that eliminating him would cripple an offensive against them.  Also- in case you didn't read Garithos's profile, he was responsible for the exile of the blood elves, and had she let him live she would probably killed him later after knowing all the things she put her people through. (or perhaps she DID know...)  Either way, he deserved what he got.--Blayaden (talk) 23:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Bahmat carries an excellent point. As he opened, you really can't decide for yourself, without consideration before you judge who is made up of the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys". I mean, Sylvanas has a wider array of good deeds than Billy Mayz if you think about it. And Billy Mayz has come out with some pretty epic stuff. Sylvanas still has a pure heart the way I look at it, and she had nothing to do with Putress- so there isn't anything that Horde has against her, or Alliance besides the fact that most Paladins on Ally hate everything Undead. =/

But Sylvanas has definitely, in my eyes redeemed herself tenfold of the horrific acts she committed as a banshee under Arthas' control, which wasn't in the slightest bit her fault. If not Chaotic Neutral, Sylvanas is Chaotic Good for her work at putting an end to the Legion and the Scourge. I see no Evil in these acts. --Vaelkyrix

Imo sylvanas is one of the coolest things in world of warcraft aside from garrosh(cuz moar pvp yus <3) and the horde itself. but if she really wants to just get rid of her curse she should sacrifice herself in destroying "frostmourne" not arthas without frostmourne the lich king is an undead with nothing but twigs and rocks, then she wouldn't be evil and a well known hero .lol vilu-andorhal

Too many pictures
This article is beginning to have too many pictures again. I already cleaned it up by putting others in the Gallery below. This doesn't mean to create new pictures or move pictures out of the gallery back into the main article. People should avoid creating a gauntlet of pictures with the text down the middle it screws up the page format and doesnt' work well on different sized monitors, widescrent or normal.Baggins 08:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Artemis?
Is it just me or does she seem sort of based off of Artemis the goddess of the hunt. If you think about it she is the best archer in the world something a goddess of hunt would be exceptional at. They are both female. And I'm not sure why, but for some reason I think she doesn't ever want to have to be married as Artemis didn't.srry guys forgot four tides. Geeko 02:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I really don't think so. She's an exceptional archer, and she's female. There are quite a few people like that, and they're not necessarily based off Artemis. And I imagine that if Sylvanas hadn't been turned undead, and things stayed peaceful, she may have gotten married. El le th wen 06:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As an undead, No. Had she not been turned undead.....eh no not really. Not her nor her sisters. Elune kind of resembles artemis, as does Tyrande. Not tick for tack of course but theres a lot of similarities and similar iconography. Theres really not any known characters with the artemis archetype but a few that are only a few points off. There are a few elven goddesses we know exist, but their personailities (and honestly anything other than their names) are unknown. 06:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Shandris maybe. 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

How can that be?
Wowhead has a model of Sylvanas back when she was a High Elf. How can that be possible? For proof go to  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  18:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Watch the Lament of the Highborne.-- 23:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * But that was a movie they made...Sylvanas has never appeared in-game like that... has she? Its an interesting find either way...--Blayaden 00:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And she's a brunette on Wowhead, in the movie she's like a toehead.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  22:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * She looks blonde to me... and what the heck does "toehead" mean?--Blayaden 17:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Toehead means blonde. 18:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Silvanas is NOT a queen
''Discussion blanked as goodwill gesture. See for archive.''  04:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

A simple Question
I just have a short question: Who keeps deleting what i added? I added that she has 3000 hp, which is true. So why has it been deleted severall times? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Because thats not true. Also sign your posts with 4 ~. Leviathon (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * First of all: It is true. Believe it or not i know how to open a file. Second: I'm sorry i must have mist the part with the 4~ Draco-25 (talk) 18:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Where's your source, cause wowhead says 1,100 and thats not true, you say 3,000 and another site has her at 500,000 hp. 19:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 3,000 in WC3 maybe... But we try to keep statistical crap like that out of the lore articles...Baggins (talk) 19:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My source is simple: First of all im a expirienced programmer so i was interested and put my head into it. When i saw 3000 i didn't believe it. So I startet a private server, aktivated the option "Show exact hp", went in their and well she had 3000hp and my hunter killed her with about 5 shots.Draco-25 (talk) 21:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Before this last post you just made you had the tiniest bit of credibility. 3000 in WC3 sounded believable, though it still didn't belong in the article. 3000 in WoW however? No she does not. Your source is flawed, not to meantion illegal but we wont get into that. She has far more than 3000 HP in WoW (The real WoW). You can kep saying "I know i'm right" you may actualy believe you are, but you're not. 05:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok ok guys calm down. I'm sorry I'll just stop editing from now on. Hope your happy. But before you kik me: If you think my things are unbelievable then how do the guys know how many People live in a certain area?Draco-25 (talk) 15:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The RPG books list it out in black and white.16:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok so sorry for all the trouble.Draco-25 (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

That made my day XD --Senoj (talk) 23:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

A minor edit I don't want reverted
I ADDED a title to Sylvannas (Pretty Ghost), since in the level The Dark Lady in TFT you have the option to posses an ogre war lord and after possesing it he says something of the lines "We serve the pretty ghost now". (Its no big deal BUT I AM TRYING TO GET MYSELF OUT OF THE WHOLE I DUG MY SELF) --The last Alterac (talk) 02:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Why do you have to shout every time you talk? 02:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Just dug yourself deeper...theres more i can say but i'm just gonna shake my head and walk away. 02:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The title section is for official titles, not descriptions by characters. Magni might be described as a red beared dwarf, that doesn't mean we put that under his title. Thrall might be called a greenskin that doesn't mean we put that under his title. Titles are usually "capitalized" "The Dark Lady" or "The Banshee Queen" as major examples. "pretty ghost" is like me calling someone an "annoying poster", or "brilliant poster" its a description it doesn't mean its a "title".Baggins (talk) 03:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do I even bother trying to fill up the pit if the cement truck falls in then exploads creating an even bigger hole?--The last Alterac (talk) 10:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Because the job market sucks now and if you quit that job filling holes you're in the poorhouse. --Super Bhaal (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"official fanart" eh?

 * "That is a fan made. The one i just restored is official. DO NOT readd the fan-made M1330."

Eh, what are you smoking? Like gourra said how does one fan art become more official than another :p...Baggins (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The WMV model is using blizzard's blood elven model, along with blizzard's dark ranger skin, along with the clothes sylvanas wears in game. It was once part of a section displaying the new model. The fanart is simply one of many fabricated images displaying what random people think Sylavnas should look like. Ones fan art, and the other is made by a fan but using nothing but official matierial. 20:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, neither of them are official at all. Personally, I like M1330's more than the other one, but I think if we get rid of one, we should get rid of he other. This is not a hosting service for fanart.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That sounds good to me. 20:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Brother Lirath?
A new revision mentions Lirath, her brother. Uncited, of course. I googled the name and came across a German Blizzard role play forums thread where one Astrya says: "Für Statistiker: Familie Windrunner ist kurzzeitig gewachsen: Lirath Windrunner, Allerias jüngster Bruder, hatte einen kurze Erwähnung. Da Knaak schon für die Invasion der Geißel 2 andere Brüder aufgeführt und auch gleich dahingemeuchelt hatte, müssen es mal 6 Geschwister gewesen sein. IMHO zuviel, um glaubwürdig zu sein *kopfkratz* " Who is this Lirath? Perhaps he should be removed from the list untill someone can come up with a proper citation or something to back up his existence. --Oponyxal (talk) 21:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * He is introduced in Beyond the Dark Portal. 21:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In such a case, please use a citation template, or create the article and put it on there. 21:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * First mention, . Not sure where his name turns up, but it does. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I found it. He was the youngest brother of the Windrunner family, who was killed by Orcs during the Second War.  It was his death that inspired his sister Alleria to take up Orc-hunting as a hobby.

Age
I'm not sure if this has a correct answer, but how old is Sylvanas? Besides Cycle of Hatred and the Sunwell Trilogy, I haven't ready any of the other WoW books, nor do I play the card game. I was just wondering if it said anywhere else, without resorting to "a couple of centuries". Yuvorias (talk) 07:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't believe her exact age is stated anywhere. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless i'm mistaken i don't recall her age ever being meantioned, and i've read and reread every official published source. She's the middle sister of Alleria and Veressa. Alleria being described as a trained ranger when Turalyon's grandparents were babes (though how long she'd been one isn't meantioned), and Veressa having only become a ranger a little over a decade ago. We know little to nothing about how old one has to be to be a ranger except it seems when elves reach adulthood is implied. Most sources call adulthood about 110. Of course none of these things can be given definete numbers with any sense of insurance. Sylvanas is ranger general which implies she's definetly not fresh out of the academy. So i hate to say it but unless i missed something major "a couple of centuries" is probably about as accurate a guess as you are going to find. 08:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I thought that might be the case. Oh well, thanks anyway. --Yuvorias (talk) 08:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

They never tell a Leader's age and a player never asks--Taurenchick484


 * Not true. The Warcraft III manual gave the ages of most of the heroes, but not her.-- 21:47, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Sexuality
"I hope my sisters and I can grow up and get married together." (from coin from dalaran)...shes in to girlds 0-o Noobi666 (talk) 15:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This is hopeless and useless. "Married together" does not mean married to each other. It means to be present in each other's weddings. Besides, I strongly doubt that Blizzard would implement incestuous relations. If I were you, Noobi, I'd remove the entire remark. It has no place here. --Oponyxal (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

another child left behind by the education system. married together most likely refers to tree couples getting married at the same time (its a tradition in some places). Your speculation is plain dumb and should be removed .TINAF (this is not a forum).--Beloren (talk) 22:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Obvious troll was obvious. --Super Bhaal (talk) 22:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Like Oponyxal said, and by the way, get some "back-up-stuff", before you take out your imaginaton.


 * OK, continually flaming someone for a comment they made a month ago serves no purpose whatsoever. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:46, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Please be a Troll....--Taurenchick484
 * This discussion's a little less dead than Sylvie's girlie parts, but still dead nonetheless, buddy. --Super Bhaal (talk) 23:16, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I think we should keep Sylvanas picture at WotLK Beta Build 8820
Well i just want to ask first if I can add this picture in the image gallery???Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Beta images get replaced. They do not need to be documented. 01:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I also think it should be added to the gallery, for the encyclopedic sake, to show that she looked like that once, but is not that important really --Beloren (talk) 04:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As it was never an official release (just a PH in beta) i don't see the need for it to be added anymore than a picture of the Elekk placeholders on the mammoth page. On the same token i don't see any harm in one extra image in the gallery. 04:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think anybody cares if we add more to the gallery (that's what it's there for, to add otherwise cluttery pictures), but we really don't have a major need to document all placeholders, particularly when they're not official release. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok I am confused, then we shouldn't add this image because it's a placeholder of a beta version that wasn't even made official. Well at least we can conserve it here in this talk page? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * on the other hand i noteced that the image of daval prestor appears in deathwing, and is a beta model too, i think we should add sylvanas V-2.0 to the gallery--Beloren (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You DO realize there's something called "file history", right? See Image:Sylvanasnew.jpg and scroll down to the second earliest date. There's the exact same screenshot. Stop uploading duplicate screenshots. 22:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could always keep the picture in the talk page.Baggins (talk) 23:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistencies with Characterization and Plot
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just being slow here, but it seems to me that Blizz is being very inconsistent with plot. We know she was involved in the creation of the new plague, but we have never been certain if she wanted to turn it against the living. What makes this unusual is that the uncertainty stems from the fact that it is flatly stated in some sources as intending to use it against the living, while more recently it seems Blizzard has been trying to shy away from from that. Then, in the Burning Crusade, her heart bleeds for the Blood Elves. Now, in the beta, she's not even the one who deploys the plague in the first, instead it was her majordomo and a seeming army of treacherous members of the Royal Apothecary society, which had been fanatically loyal to her according to the earlier sources. Then she comes off as possessing a deer-in-the-headlights sort of innocence as if she was unaware of the new plague's effect on the living. How does any of this this fit in with the lore? What should we put in the articles?

What changes need to be made? How are we going to fit this into the continuity of the article?

Could you list the sources? The RPG books operate with Brann Bronzebeard's views, and will probably in many cases be biased by that. Sylvanas was aware of the plague, but as far as I got it she only meant it for the Scourge. The RAS seemed fanatically loyal to her, but apparently that was only on the surface. It's also stated that she never trusted Varimathras 100% (isn't it?), so completely "deer-in-the-headlights" seems a bit unlikely. As far as I see it, Sylvanas' storyline is one of the better ones in the lore. I only hope, and will even when proven wrong, that she will be the one to finally destroy Arthas once and for all. With a lot of torture and all that jazz, of course. --Oponyxal (talk) 08:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * One of the reasons the RPG is from Brann's POV is so that Blizz can make alterations and say it was a bit of a POV thing. As for "deer in the headlights", I should point out that she convieniently made it to Orgrimmar- not Silvermoon, which was much closer, but the Horde capital on another continent- in good time, suggesting some sort of preprepared escape plan.
 * The plague itself has typically been pretty vague in terms of who it targets and how it deploys, so this new development isn't that surprising.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Sylvanas wants to destroy everyone, not just the Scourge. Rise of the Lich King confirms this and she openly kills children during her experiments. also the reason she's a "deer-in-the-headlights" is probably because she's LYING, which she has done a lot. Blue Ranger (talk) 22:27, 5 June 2009 (UTC)