Talk:Rare pet

Dont edit yet
I have not completed it yet but it will be done by tommorow. Please dont edit yet! Aka Paradox 05:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Finally!!!
I have now completed this page. You may all see it for it's glory. Please be kind to the page though. I spent a lot of time on it. If you are going to change something please use these talk pages first. Aka Paradox 05:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Please don't remove comments.
It's generally not considered nice to remove comments on talk pages.

My objection still stands; this is far too opinionated with the ratings for the pets, as Broken Tooth is nothing special now at all I would give him a bare 1 out of 10 for having a generic skin. You should probably remove those rankings. --Azaram 08:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Added NPOV tag. --Azaram 08:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

NO NO NO!!!!
Well that's your opinion isn't it? Listen I spent 3 days working on this trying not to get any mistakes and this is how everyone repays me? By brutishly editing and taking out all of my work? Calling it trash and not far from finished. Well I am not going to take this. And I already said please talk about any changes in the talk page before changing and there is like 4 changes already. PLEASE TALK ABOUT ANY CHANGES IN THE TALK PAGE. I did not even get one thank you or one great job. All I got is a bunch of whiny guys saying that it's messy. Well maybe I should keep on working on it then? Put on a DO NOT EDIT NOT COMPLETED SIGN huh? Maybe I should do that. Aka Paradox 19:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, many feel bad when their work is changed, but this is a wiki and this is how things work.-- 19:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If you want your own personal article, do not write it in the main namespace. This article as it stands is subject to edits by anyone who wishes. People may be calling it messy because it does not abide by common writing methods adopted by this community. -- 22:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well can you please talk about any changes on the talk page first? by the way I like people editing it i just want them to be gentle. Aka Paradox 00:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Gentle?-- 00:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm quite sorry you feel I "brutishly edited" your work (I assume you're refering to me, as I'm the only person besides yourself to do much to this page). No one called your work on this page trash. Adys said it felt incomplete, and I agreed. That's all. I'm not sure how that translates into an attack on you and your work, but then I've long since become numb to the internet and its stinging criticisms of man's labors.


 * I edited this page, not out of malicious contempt for your efforts, but in an attempt to lend my own knowledge to yours to create a better over all article. That's what a wiki is. A massive group project where everyone contributes. If you don't want others to contribute, put it under your namespace and make it a personal article.


 * I didn't discuss my changes because I felt my contributions would improve the article, make it more accurate and readible, and be an overall improvement to the page. Clearly you feel otherwise. I'm not in the habit of discussing changes like the ones I made here, because the generally here, we only discuss larger, structural changes to articles, not rewordings, removal of excess information, or inaccuracies.


 * In regards to where the Disgusting Oozeling comes from, I'm afraid you are still wrong. Thottbot's system for determining where an item drops from is notoriously faulty. Yes, thottbot says that twice it has dropped twice from Jadefire Shadowstalkers, but it also says it dropped from an Auctioneer in Darnassus and a Weaponsmith in the Barrens. Directly beneath that, though, you will find another handy little section called "Found inside", detailing containers that the oozeling has been found in. And there you will find mention of the Oozing Bag, from which the Oozeling has been procured 1% of the time from. Comments below this section, left by the many players who have found it in their time, confirm this. If you are still unconvinced, look at WoWhead's page.


 * If there are further issues, by all means bring them up. But don't get angry at people for trying to help. That's far ruder then anything I could ever have done. --Mikaka 01:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't call it trash and far from finished. I said that it does not meet the neutral point of view usually expected of an article because it includes things that are completely opinion, ie your ratings. Other hunters (Me, for example) feel that the teal tallstrider is nothing special at all, thus should be 2/10 at best for a rare color. Olm the Wise is hardly unique; aside from being a couple of levels lower thus easier to tame, there are hundreds of the exact same skin in Winterspring. Note also that I did not edit it to remove that, I talked about it on the talk page to give you the chance to do so yourself, and you removed my message.


 * If you don't want it edited, don't post it here, pretty much. As pops up right under the window when you start editing, "All contributions are considered to be released under the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 (see Wowpedia:Copyrights for details)". So indeed, you started it, but it's not yours anymore. You gave it to the community, and while it is a reasonably useful list of the rarer skins, it is by no means complete, and needs cleanup. And people have done so. And will continue to do so. That's what a Wiki is. --Azaram 08:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You guys still don't get it do you? You can edit as long as you want just say what you are going to change in the talk page before you edit it. So that all of us can agree on it. I'm perfectly fine with the editing I just don't want people adding in stuff that would not make sense in this page. Just say what you are going to edit or change and we will agree if it fits in K? Aka Paradox 17:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Again, nobody "owns" main namespace page on a wiki. If you want control of a page, you can have it as a personal article - WP:PA. Edit this page and look at the bottom - notice the bit that says "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." On a more positive note, it is a great article :) 18:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to add that many of them don't say why they are a must have pet, yet ranked so high. As well as difficulty in taming something is a bit pointless as distance and a freezing trap make taming a pet extremely easy.  09:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Or a druid friend, who can hibernate the beastie. Everything tamable is subject to hibernation as well as freeze traps. --Azaram 10:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it refers to how hard the pet is to find, how slow a spawn rate or whether it must be summoned specially via a quest (ex: Echeyakee), or other special circumstances (like his example Olm the Wise). Just my two cents. -- 07:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Things that need to be changed
The 'Hunter Must Have' section should be taken out completely as it is based on nothing but subjective input. If you need to have a rating system it should be based on the rarity of spawn (perhaps in a 1-10 format) multiplied by the difficulty to capture (again a 1-10 format). I don't know of a way to fairly gauge this difficulty, but unless there is such a manner it might due to just change the entire part to a 'rarity of spawn category' Elemdruid 19:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Could this be split or added to?
Could this page be split into Rare Hunter Pets, and Rare Non-Combat Pets? The two are not all tat connected in my opinion. Please also see Rare Mobs by Zone there are additional rare hunter pets there. For instance Giggler may be a good addition to this page. --Ilublawn 14:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The Lions
Wouldn't the lions like the Echeyakee and Sian-Rotem be rare pets. Well for Alliance hunter since theyre summonable by the Horde. And the Rake is fairly hard to get if I remember correctly. Well anyway, would I be able to add them too? Mr.X8 06:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The Rake is easy to get, just hang around a little north of the large open plains east of Thunder Bluff. There's one small copse of trees there that he spawns near. I've been attacked by him there three times in a row while trying to find something for one of the Winter's Veil quests. But he's nothing special now; he was once the lowest level and highest attack speed cat aside from Broken Tooth, now he's just an unusual skin for that low a level. (The only maned lion in Mulgore. I believe the next nearest one is in the Land of Stupid Babble Barrens.) There were other 1.2 attack speed cats, but most of them were out of twink (spit) levels. --Azaram 11:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Changes
Now I will give you credit for taking the time to put this together. But I have to side with those who have commented before me. Besides the fact that this is a wiki, the page alone has problems. For one, it does sound from just your point of view. All other pages have a very "non-bias" feel to them. Also you link way to many times to outside sources!

Now I'm just going to talk about the "hunter" section. Beyond the fact that there is already a site that has complete listings of all hunter pets found here http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/index.shtml You missed so many unique pets. They don't possess anything unique from each other, other the WoW standards (armor/health/dmg). All the movement speed, attack speed, etc. all was long since normalized. Let me say that again, incase you missed it. Movement speed, health, attack speed have all been normalized. The only difference between my Durotar Tiger which I raised from lvl 8? to 70 is no different then Rak'Shiri since they are both labeled as "cat". But if an unskilled or new hunter came along they might believe that these pets still were different and thus confusing them. Such as your comment about Broken Tooth... Skin is the ONLY difference these guys have after being tamed. Can I take a guess that, even if you do play a hunter, that your alliance? Because like it's been said, you make no comments on the many Barrens rares. Also your ratings on "must have" and "difficulty" are not valid. It's personal on what a hunter wants. I've loved my normal, orange tiger since I was a wee orc. His name is Tony. If I named any other pet Tony... it looses all humor in it, thus, I <3 my cat. As for taming, all pets are tamed the same way. Lay trap at near max range > concussive shot > begin tame. Soon-2-be pet will get frozen as you are already taming it thus giving you plenty of time to finish. 0 challenge. Then we have the picture comments, these need to get cleaned up. A simple statement is best. For example your Olm the Wise says "This owl is a very special pet. Very" and it should say "Olm the Wise" and nothing else.

Now about the Small "rare" pets. This is already on this site /small_pet Every small pet is in there with a fine amount of detail. You list 5 out of the total 73 pets. http://www.warcraftpets.com/wow.pets/index.asp has a complete listing and they like the hunter one are dedicated to just one aspect of pets.


 * Please sign your posts. You have done an excellent job pointing out the issues here. I will list them in a little more concise format (with my own comments):
 * Check for misleading statements regarding pet stats - all pets of one type are the same (What about pets with "caster stats"? Has this also changed, or do some pets still have caster stats?)
 * Less outside linking - though an external links section with links to petopia or the site you linked to above is recommended by me.
 * Include rare pets found in other areas (rare here being defined by unique/difficult to find skin, not stats)
 * For taming techniques, provide a link to the tame pet page. No need to discuss taming here
 * Remove ratings
 * Clean up image comments
 * I also suggest splitting this into two articles, one for hunter pets and one for small pets, as someone mentioned previously.


 * Now, since this has been a controversial article I am not going to edit right away. But in a few days after people have had time to comment a little more, I will go in and make at least some of these changes. -- 16:22, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I am working on a new version of this page. If you would like to see my progress, see User:Jiyambi/Rare pet. My main problem is defining a "rare" pet. Clearly a special or unique skin is necessary, or some other special feature such as an ability. Should all top-level ability pets be on here? However, does the pet also need to be a rare spawn? How hard to get is hard to get? For example, many normal mobs in high level areas have unique skins (such as Plagued Swine in the plaguelands). What about "trash" mobs in instances? Do these constitute rare pets? Please let me hear others thoughts on this. -- 16:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'd say something like difficult to get (due to long spawn time like Grunter, or in a crowd of other beasties that you have to clear first), unique skin (like Uhk'loc the white gorilla; not Olm the Wise, as two levels later there are hundreds of the exact same owl in Winterspring, and while the plagued swine is only found in the Plaguelands, there are a lot of them), or hard to get due to other circumstances (like an alliance character getting Echyakee the white lion, who only exists for a short time when summoned by a Horde quest, or one of the black-with-white-stripes tigers found in the nelf starting area gotten by a low level Horde hunter).


 * Unless there's something really unique about them, I don't think a generic skin deserves a spot. Since the normalization, a lot of the most sought after pets are nothing at all special...(Broken Tooth, I'm looking at you...) --Azaram 02:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Pets in cages?
Why do all the pictures suddenly have huge white borders on them? --Azaram 10:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I see no white borders, perhaps it is a problem with your browser? -- 16:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's something about the page in IE that's recently changed. On Firefox it works fine, but I used to use it on this same browser on the same computer without the white borders.


 * Maybe you are using an older IE, and not the latest.Baggins 05:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Small pets, redesign
Removed the small pets section. All of that info is available under small_pets already. I made sure before deleting it.

edit: Also, Jiyambi, your page is looking nice. I hope it replaces this page soon. Coeur 16:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Coeur. I am having trouble, as I said above, deciding what pets to include. For example, almost every serpent pet can only be found in an instance, does that make them rare? What about mobs such as the Frostsaber Pride Watcher, which has a unique skin but is technically a normal mob, but can only be found in one small area in a high level zone? And what about all the Warp Stalkers, which can only be found in Outland, does that make them rare? For now I have included those that in my personal opinion would be interesting or mildly difficult to find, but not everyone will define these as rare. Is there some objective definition we could come up with? -- 18:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I wrote a brief definition up at the top of my version of the article. It is still rather vague but at least it is something. It would include things like the Frostsaber Pride Watcher. For Outland pets, I usually mention them in the creature type's introduction text but don't necessarily include them with a full picture. If this is not satisfactory, let me know what I can do to improve it. If no one has any qualms, I will be replacing this article with the one I concocted in a few days. Feel free to edit my version of the article directly in the meantime, if you like: User:Jiyambi/Rare pet. I hope this helps to fix the problem and not make it worse... -- 18:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't agree that the small pet stuff was already on small pets - so I created a rare small pet specific page and sorted out the templates. 18:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Works for me, though the small pets portion of the article is still in need of cleanup. The captions on the pics, in particular, need to be changed. -- 18:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

That's a great page idea, Kirk~ It does indeed need a lot of work though, plus it's missing a lot of "rare" small pets. Coeur 14:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Re-written article
Okay people. I have replaced the current page with a version I re-wrote. I am hoping this will fix the problem and not make things worse - it is not my desire to get into edit wars or to impose my work over other people. I only saw that people were complaining about the article but no one was doing anything so... I did something. Feel free to edit to your heart's content. I admit I do not have a high level hunter (mine is only level 37 atm) so most of this data is compiled from the previous article and from Petopia. Also the definition of what makes a pet "rare" was difficult, so if you have a pet you think needs to be on here, add it (but be prepared to defend it!), or similarly take any off you don't think should be here. In addition, details of exact locations of pets and any special tricks to get to them/tame them should be added.

I hope this helps. -- 16:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you did a wonderful job (as did the original author!) and I find it very useful now. I'm afraid I can't help much with what's considered "rare" either (my hunter's lvl 20) but for now it's looking really good. Coeur 17:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I just wish we had more screenshots. I have one of Trachela on my home computer that I will upload when I get around to it, but my characters aren't high enough to get into some of the instances, especially for the screenies of the owls. So someone else will have to get those. There are also pictures of the models on the petopia site, but I wasn't about to steal their pictures. I guess those with a model viewer could maybe upload something? -- 17:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Good page... Another unique thing about the Plagued Swine is that they're the highest level of boar, period. The next highest is Grunter, at 50, and all the boars in Outland are demons, thus untamable. --Azaram 03:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Barking Wolfs/croc
the barking wolfs/dogs and the crocolisk with claw 5 might need a mention--Gurluas 19:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

and also arikara vengeance, it deserves a mention too, and maybe the clattering scorpid from durotar, they only appear in the orc noob zone


 * The fact that a pet appears in only one place but has no unique characteristics doesn't make it worth mention, in my opinion. Thiese barking wolfs/dogs and the crocolisk you speak of could be worth noting though. Add them in if you see fit.


 * EDIT: I checked in on Arikara and the scorpids. The Arikara skin is shared by several other mobs, I don't really think it should be included. However you have a point about the scorpids - for an Alliance character that skin could be considered rare. As for the crocolisk with claw 5, I don't know enough about hunter pets to say whether that constitutes "rareness" but since we included Kresh I suppose it's at your discretion. There are several other pets that teach claw 5 however, and the crokolisk isn't even the lowest level mob that teaches it, AND claw 5 is not the highest rank of the skill, so I advise against including that crokolisk. -- 00:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Arikara appears in a puff of smoke with a rumble each time its summoned... --Gurluas 16:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Huh, that's neat. That certainly makes it a unique pet in my book. By all means, add it, or I will when I get around to it. -- 16:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh and the croc...its special because crocolisks usually CANT learn claw...at all they are limited to bite.--Gurluas 10:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I defer to your superior hunter knowledge :) Yeah, that should definitely be included, with a note for noobs like me who didn't know why it was special. Thanks Gurluas :)


 * EDIT: Actually I just read that he loses the ability as soon as you go to a new zone and cannot be tought it again. While that may be interesting, I'm not sure it should be included here - the pet is not going to be sought out as a rare pet because of it, it is simply an oddity. Therefore I would argue against including it here, but instead just have a note on that crocolisk's page. -- 17:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Relatedly, in the south Barrens there is a small infestation of silithids, and young Horde are given a quest to dig up samples of their eggs. When you do so, a crab called the Silithid Protector appears, which is tamable. It's one of the red crabs but what it has or had special about it is that it kept it's ' digs it's way up out of the sand' (or words to that effect) emote after taming. I don't know if it still does or not, but it used to be mentioned as something to make a slightly more unique pet. --Azaram 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It was nerfed, but the blue scorpids there also have a rather unique skin. --Gurluas 09:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Not-rare pet?
Why is the Frostsaber Pride Watcher listed as a rare pet? There's dozens of them around, and they have no special skills or abilities. --Azaram 04:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think I listed them because they are the only ones with that skin, but "rare" is very subjective. I was borderline with them, but chose to include them rather than not. If you feel strongly about it, feel free to remove it.


 * EDIT: I think my original reasoning was because since we included plague swine, which is a unique skin and while it is a normal mob, only appears in a small part of one high level zone. However, the plagued swine is also the highest level boar in the game and also the only way to get the highest level of charge. -- 23:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah ok...I was thinking 'rare' as in 'not many of them', and I generally have three or four chasing me at any given time I'm out there. :-p Hadn't realized they were the only ones with that skin... --Azaram 01:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Understood. And while there are a ton of them in that area, they aren't anywhere else. So someone may want that skin but not know the specific area where they appear. But I also understand them not being rare. Anyways, like I said it's subjective so if someone cares strongly one way or the other, it's fine by me -- 04:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah, they're at least as rare as the spoiled ham in the Plaguelands. They're in one small area of one zone nobody goes to anymore, and the only ones with that particular skin. Not worth fighting/arguing over; you've got a good point with both. --Azaram 04:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Warp stalkers and rarity
Throughout the article, many creatures are disqualified from being a "rare pet" because they are easily found in Outland. The description of the warp stalker family, however, says they are hard to find because they happen to be located in Outland, and then lists a common skin that is used by three different members of the warp stalker family. By the standards set by the rest of the page, that would rule out the white colored warp stalkers from being a "rare pet". --Presea 18:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds fine to me, I don't really remember why I included them and not others when I wrote the first draft of the article. The only thing of note is that many of the warp stalkers have caster stats, but that hardly qualifies those that don't as being rare. Anyway I don't have an argument against removing the entries on those warp stalkers. -- 06:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

crabs
When it comes to crabs, any hunter with them as a pet is rare on its own...I think that should be mentioned...So that would make all the crabs rare. 06:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

wotlk wolf
K, I was in borean about a week ago doing some D.E.H.T.A quests when I saw a hunter with a wolf pet that looked like the wolf mount(with saddle and everything). Tried beast lore but nothing came up,kicked myself later for not just asking where they got it. If anyone happens to have any idea where such a saddled pet could be from plz post. My opinion is it probly wasn't meant to be tamed but what blizz don't know can't hurt em. I'm also assuming since the ghost wolf from dustwallow is no longer tamable it wasn't included in this list? --Artranian (talk) 18:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the wolf from Ramparts? Wolf on Wowhead Jarvi (talk) 18:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, that would be it. Just shows what you miss if you don't pay attention. Thx for the info. --Artranian (talk) 21:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)