Talk:Blood elf

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Relationships
I think the Relationships section needs a big overhaul, it reads like nothing more then the random thoughts of an elf basher, or the very least someone who jumps on the "blood elves are corrupted scum" crowd and went with it. Anyone who bothers to play a Belf can see that they are a bit more complex then everyone hates the belfs and the belfs hate them.

So yeah, needs to be cleaned up, a bit more accurate and a little less "belfs are demonically tainted scum and no-one likes them". My 2 cents.

--Nurizeko

I tried to clean that up but someone reverted it and sent me a message saying not to write in front of "cited" sources.........even though that paragraph is a load of bull****.

--Frostwolfshaman

I've removed forest trolls from the list of races that interests blood elves, despite the entry in A&HC page 68, because Amani tribe is a representative of forest trolls, and the dislike is mutual. For several millenia of war, it is quite understandable. And, clearly, this source book is a bit out of date. In forest trolls article, it is clearly written that they don't like or trust to blood elves. And quest lines for blood elves includes quests against Amani tribe.

Dr Bobaz (talk) 15:45, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

The Troll Wars
I added a few paragraphs about the Troll Wars in here since it is a key part in Blood Elf history. I think it is important to mention because it shows that they were once part of the alliance even before the Second War. (Sern 23:26, 31 January 2007 (EST));


 * The Troll Wars are High elven history, not Blood elven history. The Blood elves could not have been a part of the Alliance prior to the Third War because they did not exist prior to the Third War. Also, the High elves could not have been a part of the Alliance before the Second War because the Alliance did not exist before the Second War. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:02, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ok, let me rephrase. I saw that the history stated on the site had already included information of their race from the point they were Highborne to today. So I thought it would be fitting to show a little information of the Troll Wars for further background. And I do apologize for referencing the Alliance and not the humans of Arathor. The information in the article is correct though.


 * My main point is that the High Elves made a pact with humans before they became Blood Elves. The reason for making this so clear shows the type of corruption their race has gone through by magic withdrawal and the lengths they are willing to go to, to regain that power. Sorry for the confusion. (Sern 07:14, 3 February 2007 (EST));

Understood, but there is still a distinction between Quel'dorei and Sin'dorei- explaining the entire history of one removes the need for the other. Though this is the way that the Wacraft Encyclopedia does it, for our purposes, it's better to keep the articles separate. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:23, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Before stupidity sets in
Before someone uses this talk page to say the Blood elves are evil let me say some things first.


 * A number of Blood Elf quests involve attacking animals that the blood elves once had control over, these quests generally mention that the one giving the quests takes no joy in ordering the player to do so, possibly even somewhat remoseful for what their ordering the player to do.


 * A few talk pages have mentioned that the blood elves use leper gnomes as slaves, could someone tell me where in the city these gnome slaves are? I've gone through a good majority of the city on my blood elf character and I haven't found any gnome slaves yet.


 * In the quest Meeting the Warchief Thrall specifically mentions that it was the Alliance that betrayed the blood elves.


 * In one part of the city their are two blood elves protesting to their questionable methods and are eventually mind controlled into supporting those methods, I should point out it was magistars who mind controlled the two, but prior to that it was simply the citizens who were disproving everything they said.


 * Although the blood elves have enslaved M'uru to harness holy light powers, it could be seen as justified since the holy light abandoned the blood elves, granted thats how the blood elves see it, and I support that idea.


 * After performing the quest Meeting the Warchief Thrall sends you back to Lor'Themor who states that Thrall believes the blood elves and the orcs both have a link to outland that could better both races, Lor'Themor mentions it isn't exactly true, but not a lie either, which means the blood elves are being semi-truthful with the things they tell the Horde.


 * A number of talk pages mention the blood elves have a "dark destiny", currently we do not know what the significane of the word "dark".


 * The ambassodors of the other Horde races seem to get along fairly well with the blood elf thats taking them on tour of the city, even the Troll is semi-polite.


 * Thrall says the blood elves are worthy to be in the horde in Meeting the Warchief.


 * Although a night elf NPC does mention what demonic power could do to the blood elves, we can't trust the night elf was being completly truthful, as all night elves view high elves harshly, and view blood elves as a people who do not deserve to live, Malfurion is the only night elf who could possibly give an unbiased view of the blood elves, and even then it's possible he'll still be baised about it.

There... now try to heed this mentions before going "Blood Elves are undeniably evil lololol". Hordesupporter 18:02, 26 February 2007 (EST)
 * Seeing you are a self admitted Horde Biased person, I should know better then to reply to this.. but ok. About your point witht he Ambassadors, you fail to see one big thing. It very closely resembles how in old communist states you where also led around by an "Ambassador" only to see the beauty of a city/country. China often did this kind of stuff in the 80's What is happening in Silvermoon has alot of similairitis to this.


 * Only show them the beauty not the bad sides of your country. Communist dictatorships also loved that tactic. ((I won't reply to the other points because simply put. I rather RP and prepare my next RP event for the guild ;)--Dehnus (talk) 16:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Good. I raise a question mark over Thrall's saying that the Alliance betrayed the elves, as he is somewhat biased (though he was right in that the elves didn't do the betraying; either the Alliance did it, or there was no betraying at all), but otherwise that works perfectly. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:22, 26 February 2007 (EST)


 * On the leper gnome-slaves, memory serves, go to the tailor trainers. There should be a way to go to the basement where you find them working over looms with a succubus overseer.  Anyway, good points. -- Maenos 19:49, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Prior to getting the Burning Crusade I thought of the blood elves as evil, but having brought my created blood elf character to lv 21 (as of writing) I understand now their a lot more complicated then that. Hordesupporter 01:02, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * That is a good point. Publicity materials weren't clear on the distinction between Azeroth and Outland blood elves, and they omitted the fact that the blood elves siphon whatever magic they can (publicity materials mention only dark or demonic magics). Also, what appears to be a lengthy process and complicated issue was erroneously summarized as "Thrall cannot ignore the strategic value of the Blood Knights," though this is in fact a minor detail. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:01, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Another point, in case someone asks how the blood elves were admitted into the horde, according to quests in burning crusade Sylvanas had constantly attempted to convince Thrall, Cairne, and Vol'jin to accept them, but they weren't sure, weren't sure if the blood elves were capable of defending themselves, noting the extreme difficulty the blood elves were having dealing with the scourge who were invading the blood elves lands, because if the blood elves couldn't defend themselves, how could they help defend the rest of the horde? A player may do a questline where they fight back night elf spies, dwarf spies, and beat the scourge from the ghostlands, as well as terminate the traitor Dar'Khan, after performing these quests your sent to Sylvanas, who sends you to Thrall, after reading the report of how the blood elves defeated the spies and the scourge he no longer doubts them and welcomes the blood elves into the horde. Hordesupporter 01:13, 3 March 2007 (EST)

Another thing to note... the Blood Knights, although more "dark" then Alliance paladins, have something in common with the Alliance paladins, there highest priority is the protection of their people, although paladin quests for blood elf paladins show them to be much more mean and ruthless then the Alliance paladins, they have a honorable goal, I do find it intresting however, that while members of the alliance sometimes show fear of the paladins due to their powers, the blood elves show outright contempt for the blood knights, another point to bring up, if I find anymore points that support Blood Elves being not evil, i'll put them here. Hordesupporter 00:41, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Blood Elves aren't evil in their own eyes, but does that make them good? Blood Elves are in someways related to those High Elves who sacrificed NE's just to gain power... They did not see themselves as evil either. Blood Elves can't live without magic, so what should stop them from killing more, so they can get their magic? Blood Elves are evil! They're just not evil by choice, but rather by arrogance and need. WoW_LoreFanatic

I beg to differ. Considering Blood Elves need magic to survive, their killing of others in order to obtain magic makes them no less evil than any non-vegetarian person who kills animals for their meat. True, the High Elves have shown that they don't need magic to live, a person truly need meat to live either. Mr. peasant 06:05, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Did you not see my points WoW_LoreFanatic? Recheck them before saying that again. Hordesupporter 15:24, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I wouldn't call the Blood Elves pure evil, but they have a lot of Darkness in them. Looking at the political/cultural situation it is extremely complex. I would not trust the magisters, as they are way to close to their Highborne ancestors and it seems they hold a great deal of political power. The Farstriders are definitely a force for good among the people. The Blood Knights seem to be linked to the Magisters, however they are more products of a thirst for vengeance, a (likely unjustified) fealing of abandonment by the Holy Light and a misguided fanaticism to the prince. Those seem to be the major groups. As far as leadership over the Silvermoon Blood Elves are concerned, we have Ranger General Halduron who seems to be a good fellow. We then have Rommath, who is a magister and is devoted to the Prince, which doesn't help bring morality to the leadership. I would hazzard a guess that Lor'themar is a decent fellow who has to make compromises to keep the peace and protect his people. However it seems quite evident that the Blood Elf people are destined for a major reform based on the questline later in the game. The Scryers have been gathering evidence against Kael'thas hoping to gain a political advantage with their people, and you help them with that. That, and Kael'thas is eventually killed (although it seems no one is able to do that yet). It is quite obvious that he is the source of the Blood Elf Corruption, making deals with Illidan and the Legion, so without his influence and with the Scryers evidence, I believe that the Blood Elves are destined for redemption, and the fact that they have allied themselvs with orcs who have been in the same boat will probably help that along. Meneldir

Not sure this was mentioned in this part or not, but I'd like to point out that according to Monster Guide, most Blood Elves aren't casters, and those that become warlocks see demons more as tools than allies. --Super Bhaal 11:37, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Blood elves are evil in WoW (and not so in other sources). I'm still waiting for all you supporters to explain me what good do you see in The Cleansing Must Be Stopped and why any proud orc can't cleave blood elf quest giver in two for just suggesting that corruption of their ancestral homeland should continue and offer you to kill someone who tries to purify it. --Rowaasr13 13:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Necessity. 16:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Last time such "necessity" risen in WC3, Thrall was furious enough to kill Grom if only he'd be in range for axe chop. Doesn't it strike you as odd that someone in Horde ruled by orcs, who place great importance in Grom's sacrifice and freeing from fel influences, is allowed to have such "necessities"? Or, if you wish to say, that it is entire Horde outlook to value power about corruption, that'd would brand entire Horde "evil". That's exactly what I mean in "and not so in other sources". Elves are bitter and angry, Horde is somewhat rough, but all of them are proud and will better die than succumb in corruption again in outside sources, while in WoW many quests portray them as power hungry domination-obsessed warmongers. --Rowaasr13 07:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

The Horde let the Blood elves in to prevent them from going down the wrong path. Theron's a good guy,its really only the Kael'thas loyalists that are bad and have been lying to the people. Zarnks 07:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a problem with a number of your posts mostly the fact that two citzens portested (two good people are not enough to say a nation isn't eveil) and that Thrall says the Allaince betrayed the Blood Elves (I mean come on why would you say your allies betrayed there old allies) but my biggest problem is with "*Although the blood elves have enslaved M'uru to harness holy light powers, it could be seen as justified since the holy light abandoned the blood elves, granted thats how the blood elves see it, and I support that idea." That is the worst point ever you are basicly saying that if a country won't give you nuclear weapons you are more then right to kidnap a scientist to make then for you. They lost there power as they drew power from demons the land doesn't abandon you you abandon it, I know alot of peopel are going to metion the forsaken but with them they were turned into undead which the light views as bad as demons.Joeking16 20:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Imagine one peaceful day wich sudenly turns very, very bad when a massive army of genocidal undead (led by a Human) march into your lands and kill almost everyone you have ever known in a painful, horrible way, even raising some as zombies to kill you, after destroying everything in their path they leave as if nothing happened, leaving only death, sorrow, starvation, and sickness upon whoever survived. You thought maybe an old friend (the alliance) would be there to help you, save you like you saved them once (Second War), but inestead they leave you to die, wouldn't you hate everyone who would cross your path?.

Honestly... I like the twist of making angry-complex-dark elves... but it doesn't make them evil... just complicated. And I don't believe Blood Knight are that much associated with Magisters...even if they were the ones to create the Blood Knights, Lady Liadrin is their true leader, and she used to be a priest, remember? Renouncing to her vows doesn't necessarily means she tuned evil. Knight-Lord Bloodvalor himself says some of their own people reject them for their methods:

"There are those who would say what we're doing is wrong, but much of what has befallen us is also wrong. Would they have us throw away such a gift?

They do not complain when our power is used to prevent the further destruction of Silvermoon. No, they object when they are safe from harm and indulging their magic addictions."

Maybe talking about the magisters in high political positions among the blood elves, they are the most addicted, most crude of blood elves, the ones who are loyal to Rommath (evil dude). Aren't many govenrments corrupt? Does that make most of their population evil? Blood Elves strive for reaching Outland to find their destiny, but when they cross the Dark Portal they immediately enter a civil war where they have to choose between the hard and right path (Scryers and the Naaru) or the easy, dark side (Kael'thas and the Legion). It's only a matter of time before Kael'thas is defeated, Aveena restores the Sunwell and the Naaru (including M'uru) guide them trough the right path. Just like they did with the Eredar. Durendal 05:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

First things first, anyone that played W3 saw humans sending Blood Elves to fight against invencible odds as a way to exterminate, similar for an army to send all "black people" to die in suicidal runs just as a way to get rid of them. Alliance indeed betrayed the Blood Elves. If it wasnt for that, that whole approach on the nagas and Illidan would never had happened. As for a nation being evil or not, it would be very limited to label anything like that, it would be the same as labeling every german as evil bastards during WW2, while many were just not aware of what really was happening. Evil or ignorance? It is clear that in all quests Blood Elves are fooled to believe that outlands is the promisse land, where they will be satisfied with magic again. As you reach in Netherstorm, during scryer quests, the history line shows you that Kael'thas fooled everyone back in Silvermoon (or at least most of the people). It ends with you revling the truth about Kael'thas doing. Blizzard on the Sunwell Plateau patch finished that chain, changing the leadership of Silvermoon, and where A'dar recognized that all that happened in Silvermoon was uncalled for and the "kidnap" of Murmur was a fate accepted by him as a way to bring the light back to Blood Elves (in a freaky way). Another post, where I don't recall but if needed I can search, tells us that in some WoW Commic book indicate that most Belves spend at least one hour per day fighting their addiction, for they fear to become wretched. Another point, all Blood Elves were High Elves, so they were there during the second war. Sadly, so many people have a very limited insight on Belf lore, mostly Alliance though.

Blood Elf Aldor
Does anyone think that the fact Blood Elf can choose between Scryer and Aldor is ironic? After all, Scryers are Blood Elves that rejected Kael. By rejecting Kael and deciding to follow the Naruu way, it would make the playable Blood Elf Scryer by default.

Also, the Aldor hates the Scryers because Kael's followers attacked them and killed some of their priests. Why would they want Blood Elf in their ranks ?

(edited for signature --- my bad) Galawynd 11:16, 11 March 2007 (EDT)


 * You're right, it makes no sense. Seems to me like Horde BEs have the same story as the Scryers and should be on the same side. Raze 07:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You guys do realize that BEs and Draenei start out with a higher faction rating with their respective Shattrath factions right? However, the final choice is ultimately made by the player. Really, disallowing a BE to be Aldor just because they're a BE is essentially discriminating by race. I don't think anyone's that shallow minded. Plus, it'd be unfair to those players who want to be Aldor, but just also happen to be BEs. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 11:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No arguments here, I've accepted it like I've accepted humans and forsaken being unable to communicate. I'm not advocating any change, just wondering if anyone can come up with a good way to explain why horde BEs and Scryers are separate, or why Alliance Draenei and Aldor are separate for that matter. Raze 02:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Most likly just a game-play mechanic, and please remember to sign your posts. Hordesupporter 17:19, 8 March 2007 (EST)

As far as I know, there is no lore reason why BE's are not automatically scryers. Hordesupporter 21:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, there's no real lore reason beyond species that they should be. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Same species, same race, same homeland, same enemy, same story. They all became blood elves together not that long ago, that's why they should be. There ought to be a reason that they're not. Raze 04:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The Aldor hate the scryers because the scryers had done a lot of fighting against Shattrath forces before surrendering and joining in Shattrath. the Quel'thalas blood elves had not been fighting the Aldor before coming to outland, so the aldor would be less suspicious of them.Minionman 15:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Common misconception
People in the evil or not debates often cite the demonic looking stones dotted around BE area's, mainly sunstrider island. I just noticed in the very first quest text that it mentions these stones have been there for a long time powering magical stuff, which means they would have been there before the blood elves existed. As such its probably doubtful the stones are in fact captured demons or whatever as some people reckon, unless the light loving high elves were toying with demons on the side to power stuff. :) --Nurizeko


 * I think that quest text is referring to the Runestones, not these green power crystals with the demonic eyes in it, from which it seems like Fel Energy is "harvested". -- Tulon 23:45, 13.07.2007


 * The green demonic stones are called "Burning Crystals", the volatile magic sources that were brought from Outland to power the spires and other Blood Elf structures, I suppose some of them are for Blood Elves to feed on them. --Durendal 05:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Frail build?
Taken from the Classes section: "Blood Elves are the only playable race who do not have the Warrior option due to their frail physical build." This has to be wrong... If not, then someone please explain why gnomes have the warrior class... - Narradin 18:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

OMG WTF I WILL PWN U 4 D GNOMZ PWN!-- 18:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

"frail build" was just an excuse for the lack of warrior that someone slapped on this page. Hordesupporter 00:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I would only really say that the females are 'frail', as the almost steriotypical elf race (With the obvious differences) they rely more on finesse rather than strength. --AmrasCalmacil 14:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, though I find it ironic that the gnome warrior's starting strength score is 18 and the blood elf paladin's ( closest example )  is 19...  When it comes down to it, despite everyone's opinions otherwise it's all about avaliable class slots.  If the lore checks out, then by all means!  If the lore doesn't check out  ( Blood Knights ), make it!
 * Hunters? Check.  The high elves had their rangers and archers, and being an offshoot of the high elves, it's only natural the blood elves carry a similar torch.
 * Rogues? Check.  While most high elves would never contemplate such things as burglary, desperate times call for desperate measures and as a blood elf you're desperate enough as it is, and everyone's image of you has gone down the crapper enough as it is, so who cares what they think of you now?
 * Priests? Check.  Despite their addiction to arcane energy and the ends-justify-means mentality they've adopted, the blood elves are still very much like the high elves in that they require spiritual guidance in tough times, and who better to guide everyone in these trying times than a priest?
 * Mages? Check.  It's a historical thing, and regardless, with this the Alliance and Horde would once again have an equal amount of mage races.
 * Warlocks? Check.  Same thing as rogues: the blood elves have found that, despite the dangers involved in its use, fel energy is the best way to satiate their people's magical addiction.
 * Paladins? Check.  This was done more for the Alliance/Horde paladin/shaman thing I'm sure, but the lore supports it.
 * Warriors? Wait...we already have six classes, and I'm sure Horde players would prefer a paladin race to another warrior race.
 * That's at least what I have to say about it. --Super Bhaal 22:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

It would make more sense to replace Warrior with Hunter. A Hunter is so much more than just an Archer, and it doesn't fit the Blood Elven culture to have a band to nature and its' beasts. And I don't buy the "high elves would never contemplate such things as burglary". Then why can Night Elves be Rogues?--Odolwa 14:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Rogues aren't all necessarily burglars. That's like saying all paladins are good  ( dead horse ).
 * Night elf rogues seem to emphasize the more subtle aspects of the class. They're the "scouts" and "sneaks", and the ones who apply poison to their weapons are more like  ( what I've seen of )  the wardens.
 * If you were to ask me, I'd say that each race with similar classes makes use of that class in a different way than the other races. Take, for example, the typical human and orc warriors of the first three wars: the human warriors  ( or footsoldiers )  preferred ducking behind shields and attacking with swords when opportunities presented themselves; the orc warriors  ( or grunts )  were more likely to run at their enemies carrying heavy axes, swinging with reckless abandon, until their foe tired and they could get the killing blow in.
 * And I realize I came off sounding a bit like June Cleaver in my last entry, saying "they'd never contemplate something like burglary". I read in an RPG manual that the high elves were historically unlikely  ( but not prohibited from )  to act in a way befitting a typical rogue  ( "typical" in this case likely meaning "human", and since humans do everything... ).  --Super Bhaal 15:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I've always found it funny how humans can be anything...and yet they can't be hunters...all because of the class limit. As for making more sense of warriors over hunters...not really, least hunters are closer to archers/farstriders, than a bulky warrior is to an arcane dependent race. 20:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Redemption
What if the Blood Elves solved their addiction, like in the last expansion? -Mrscribbles


 * I'm sure they'd be treated with the usual skepticism by the other races, disdain by Night Elves and Tauren, distance by High Elves...Lands of Chaos only hinted at Blood Elves being redeemable. While WoW and word-of-mouth make it seem impossible, according to Monster Guide individual Blood Elves are trying their best to shake off their addictions, and as a result a lot of them decided "the hell with casting, that's what got me into this mess in the first place, time to whack things with a sword", so while that's not really "redemption" I thought that was worth mentioning.  The stuff in quotes is conjecture, by the way.   :D  --Super Bhaal 10:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

There is more than just the magical addiction being redeemed. Check out what happens to Silvermoon in patch 2.4. Qii 21:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Arator
You know ,Arator, the son of General Turalyon and Alleria Windrunner. Turalyon is a human, and Alleria is a high elf. But if you look at the eyes of Arator, they are green. Green eyes are from the blood elves, and Arator is a Half-elf    on the high elf side... Well, it's just for the model. Cedlemieux 00:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC -5)


 * Blizzard was feeling laaazy, I say. Look at the clippage on Kael'thas' model.  --Super Bhaal 12:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, why isn't this on the Arator talk page? Second, have you even read Arator's article? There's an entire section on this!-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:42, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Druids
What. --Super Bhaal 05:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Take it up with Zarnks. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah~ just saw that and the edit summary and was like, "since when did this happen? Blood Elves would look terrible in druid sets!".  --Super Bhaal 16:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Blood elf druids aren't playable because they are much weaker then night elf and tauren druids. The main exception is probably High botanist Freywinn but he may got his shapeshifting unjustly. Zarnks 08:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * And this info about them being "weaker" is from? —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 10:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

They say in the Horde players guide that Blood/high elf druids don't have shapeshifting powers just a keen sense of nature. Zarnks 20:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Horde player's guide doesn't say much of anything about blood elves at all actually. There is like perhaps one reference to blood elves in the entire book (alluding to the fact that forsaken are in talks with abassadors from the blood elves seeking to join the Horde). Only reference high elves is tied to Sylvanas and the dark rangers. It only speaks of the druidic nature of the elven rangers, something they lost when they died. It doesn't specifically say "don't have shapeshifting", we just know that well elven rangers don't shapeshift. Which would imply that high elf druidism doesn't rely on shapeshifting as much. Though the knowledge of shapeshifting has been passed down to the half-elves for certain, see Savagekin...Baggins 09:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the High Elf rangers and druids can shapeshift, it's just not in WoW, or whatever the other warcraft stuff is. I mean theres tons of stuff not mentioned too much in the Warcraft stuff and not in WoW like ogre chicks, or children of most races. Mr.X8 06:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

"We don't need fanart"
If that image was the one I'm thinking of ( Spellbreaker's face )  that wasn't fanart but a picture from Samwise Didier. --Super Bhaal 19:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a 3D render, done by ZIV Qual. http://www.zivcg.com
 * —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 13:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Loyalty
If Illidan knows(or knew)that Kael'Thas betrayed him then didn't the blood elves (under Kael's and Illidan's rule)form 2 separate groups hostile to each other one alligned with the Burning Legion and one with the illidari?if not maybe Illidan didn't tell the blood elves on Shadowmoon Valley that Kael is a betrayer of the Illidari and probably they think the sunfury in Tempest Keep are still loyal,although the ones in Tempest Keep probably don't know what to thinksince the adventurer who is sent to slay A'lar is disguised as an Ashtongue(or maybe they know of Kael's plan).What do u guys think?PS:Sorry if this post was too long:DMarakanis —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.
 * The post wasn't too long at all, just not formatted properly in a couple ways. I've fixed your heading. Pretty sure the Illidan and Kael weren't openly at war with each other, I would guess Kael's betrayal was a still secret to a number of blood elves. Raze 00:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

THanks for answering my questions and please excuse me for being so confusing and BTW I didn't mean to say this post is too long I meant to say it's so confusing:D....soryy for the confusion:) And another question where do u think he is residing right now?,I presume Tempest Keep(Botanica,Mechanar,Arcatraz)isn't in Kael's control right now sice u have quests to kill a few bosses there to get to The Eye ......hmm I would think he resides in The Eye since A'dal says something about a final assault to reclaim TK  but that is my opiniom ,what is yours?-Marakanis

Sindassi
Should the fact that the language was previously rumored to be Sindassi be kept for archival purposes on the page?-- 00:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * IMO, the Sindassi page doesn't warrant a page by itself any more, and should instead just be kept under a subheading in the Thalassian page, because that's essentially what it is. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 00:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed.-_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood Elf Organizations
Yesterday when i went to The Eye (Kael's Sanctuary)right before i encountered Kael we meet with several mobs such as:Crimson Hand Battlemage ,Crimson Hand Blood Knight etc.What I want to say is that maybe somebody can make a page about The Crimson Hand they seem to be Kael's Elite Guard ,Sunfury's counterpart of The Crimson Sigil.And for that matter sis someoe make a page for the Sunfury,i think they are worth mentioning,also since some blood elves are more loyal to Illidan then Kael(from what i saw in the past)and Kael joining the Burning Legion who exactly is the leader of the Illidari Elves?(since kael's lot isn't with illidan anymore)I would think either Illidan assumes complete comand without putting some secondary leader to better manipulate the elves,or it's someone from the Illidari Council. (Marakanis 11:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Officially, those Elves are still under Kael'Thas. Kael'Thas is still with Illidan and his betrayal and defection to Kil'Jaeden is kept a closely guarded secret. Kael'Thas is extremely secretive and his loyalties to Illidan isn't that strong to begin with. --Invin Dranoel 12:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Going Back
A High can become a Blood Elf by drinking demonic blood (or magic I don't remember). Is there a way for him to go back and be a High Elf again? Mr.X8 20:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's apparently a physical mutation once it happens, there is no reversing it...Baggins 20:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The physical mutation is irreversible, but it is possible (but not likely) for a blood elf to decide to culturally be a high elf again. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? You don't become Blood Elf by drinking some demonic blood! You're thinking about Orcs and Fel Orcs. Blood Elves are simply the new name of the High Elven race, invented by Kael'thas, in honor of their fallen brethren.-Odolwa 21:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * He's referring to the reference to blood elves feeding on fel energy and arcane power, and how it changes their eyes to glowing green, and having ruddier skin tones. This is hinted to sometimes be through consumption of demonic blood in some stories. Its definitely gone from more than just cultural change to something including physical changes and evolution, according to monster guide, and certain quest lines in The Burning Crusade.Baggins 21:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * At the moment the changes are extremely minute- unlike orcs and fel orcs, not enough to qualify for a new species. But they are there. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the eyes are permenant and heredirety like orc skin color as blood elf children also possess it. Zarnks


 * That could just be the kids subconciously drawing on avaliable fel magic in Silvermoon. But given that magic runs in families and fel magic spikes the blood, hereditary contamination can't be ruled out. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, the physical differences between High Elves and Blood Elves can be compared to a normal person and a drug addict. Then again, it is possible if the Drug Addict continues doing crack for the next hundred years that he mutates... >.> --Invin Dranoel 12:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Has anyone else noticed that the blood elves' magic addiction is a lot like the spice addiction described in Dune (which is permanent and turns your eyes blue)? Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.  Shadda

Blood Elf Popularity
Blood Elves are the most popular Horde race, followed closely Undead. Show me one server where Blood Elves alone outnumber all the Alliance. Without any citation it'll be removed. http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=10&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=-1 Is pretty sensible.
 * That's an easy one. http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=678&factionid=-1&minlevel=10&maxlevel=80&servertypeid=2 [[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]][[Image:IconSmall Rogue.gif]] Sebreth (talk) 20:10, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Capital
Don't you guys think that Tempest Keep should be added at the Racial Capital part?i saw there's only Silvermoon written there(Marakanis)


 * No, because this article refers to Blood elf as a playable race. If we add Tempest keep to Blood elf we should add Kul Tiras, Gilneas and Theramore as Human capitals. --N&#39;Nanz 15:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Then we will have to separete the article into two, one named "Blood Elf" (in general), and one named "Silvermoon Blood Elf" (the playable Blood Elves). This would follow a logical pattern that the Humans, Undead, Dwarves and Trolls already have been introduced into. --Odolwa 22:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * True, but it is very difficult to separate the two sensibly at the moment. 22:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We can't in any way shape or form separate the two, as they are the same race. TK is only capital in the sense that their king resides there. If those people in Silvermoon knew of his treachery... --Sky (t · c · w) 04:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Factions
How about you add a faction pagw with blood elf factions like the draenei have,this way there will be less people who are confused over NPC's and don't know where they belong(faction i mean)(Marakanis)

Blood Elf - Silver Hand Relations
I believe the Blood Elves still have reasonable level of respect for wielders of the Holy Light. Even though many Blood Elves belief that the Light has abandoned them, they still hold the Light with reverance. Apparently, only Hard-Core Blood Knights are anti-Silver Hand. I cite 2 "evidence".
 * 1.The Rangers at Farstrider Square doesn't approve of the Blood Knights.
 * 2.Kael'Thas, Tyrande and Malfurion welcomes Magroth the Defender, a Silver Hand Paladin. Second Battle of Dalaran.

--Invin Dranoel 15:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Well what has the farstriders disapproval got to do with it,also Kael in warcraft 3 was a little different then the blood elves today and anyway Kael was much nicer then the blood elves could even dream(those in WoW at least)(Marakanis)

Kael'thas and the Blood Elves were on the Alliance side at that time just like Malfurion and Maiev, not Tyrande. Follow the quest chain given by Mehlar Dawnblade and Lady Liadrin, in particular chain for the answers to your question: if you want to be a master Blood Knight you must hate all other paladinish institutions. -N&#39;Nanz 10:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Not really hating them but showing them that you are the Master of the Light,in fact i wouldn't be surprized if some still respect the Silver Hand even if not for Invin Dranoel's ressons,after all some still stick with their old ways(Marakanis)


 * "some still stick with their old ways"=High Elves --N&#39;Nanz 16:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually in the article there used to be written that a few blood elves still stick to the old ways of the light,that's what i meant not that they were like high elves in ideology,also i see there isn't anymore anything about that anymore so i guess i don't have back-up officially but still there are always exceptions after all,who knows i wouldn't be surprised that there were some who took the blood knight class so they could influence their brethren more to the light and also the Silver Hand is probably a powerfull organization still so they should have at least respect for their battle abilities(Marakanis)

There is a common misconception that all Blood Elves follow the Blood Knight ideology. The Blood Knights is only one faction within Silvermoon City. There are many opposing views within the Blood Elf sociaty itself. But I wonder what is the general direction Regent Lord Lor'themar Theron will take. --Invin Dranoel 14:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The blood elves have not fully abandoned the light. I roleplay a priestess who has not gotten her faith in the light shaken at all. She agrees that the alliance betrayed them, and wants no part with them (besides, she has a fear of gnomes, but that's another story). Still, she does not use fel magics, and rather opposes it than accepts it. Not to mention that she does not like the idea of capturing a being of light and siphoning it's power. However, her full loyalty lies to Quel'Thalas, which is one of the main reasons she stays with her brethren. She feels a duty to help her people, no matter what the costs. So no, the blood elves have not all forsaken the true ways of the light. Proof is that blood elf priests don't siphon their powers from the naaru. --Kulsprutejojjo 08:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

While the aforementioned have nothing to do with inter-paladin order relations (butt out, priests), you need to take a look at the quest chain. Blood Elf paladins desecrate and then burn to the ground the chapel where the Silver Hand was founded. I'm pretty sure that means the two orders absolutely hate each other. Qii 21:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

While the actions taken by the blood elves during the True Masters of the Light chain were extremely anti-Silver Hand, leading one to think the Silver Hand would hold them in abhorrence, we must examine cases in which the Silver Hand forgave or even welcomes those who were misguided or led astray. Exhibit A: Darion Morgraine, as a death knight of the Scourge, he comitted unspeakable acts of violence and desecration against all the peoples of Azeroth, he, along with all other death knights at Light's Hope, was forgiven by Tirion Fordring. Next to the acts committed by the death knights during their slavery to the Scourge, the blood knights look like mere hooligans. Exhibit B: The Three Virtues of the Church of the Holy Light. Forgiving the sinful in all likely hood falls under the credence of "compassion," which is called "the most powerful virtue." If the Knights of the Silver Hand have stayed true to the tenants of the Light, they will adhere to the three virtues, and thus forgive the blood elves. Whether or not the notoriously arrogant blood knights will follow Liadrin's lead and drop their motto of vengeance and join the knights of the silver hand is another matter, one that only time will reveal. Horderoyale (talk) 20:42, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Illidari BE
I was wondering ......where exactly do you find that all blood elves under Kael" rule are Sunfury?The ones in Netherstorm are named this way but other then that .......for example in botanica and Mechanar you find mobs who have Sunseeker on their title(Marakanis)

Druid magi and Freywinn
Hope no one here minded that I changed the link on druid to druid magi since now they have a page Mr.X8 22:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Relationships
This section has been unsourced for a long time. Any objections to removing it? -- Raze 01:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

We can give it a week or so. If it's still unsourced, a good revamp seems in order. -- Zexx 11:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Disregard, looks like they're being worked on. -- Raze 02:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

=PPPP
blood elfs in horde rape lore strongly. horde slughtered and burned blood elfs in second(?) war. and their allied amanitrolls killed many belfs too

I vote for this section to be deleted. I see no reason how it contributes to this talk-page in any intelligent way. It's been discussed enough.--Odolwa 21:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Classes
"Many blood elves are warlocks or mages, though some become hunters, scouts, or warriors — especially those seeking to be spell breakers, demon hunters, and rangers. Some take their demonic obsession one step further by taking the felsworn prestige class."

This looks like it's been copied straight out of the WoW RPG books - it doesn't bear much relation to Blood Elves in WoW, seeing as it makes no mention of the Blood Knights, mentions that they can be Warriors, and references a Prestige Class. There's another, separate class section later in the article which covers their in game classes. Is this subsection necessary at all? --- Katriana 02:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

No objections to this, so I've gone ahead and done it. If anyone feels the need to put it back in, please put it in a different place - preferably as part of the existing class section, no reason to duplicate. --- Katriana 19:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry didn't see this before. Actually it does represent lore information and is valid to the article. This site isn't just about World of Warcraft gameplay but all lore in general. However, we generally frown upon removal of cited information. Now the information is valid and should be included in the article, but it may need to be paraphrased. As for blood elf warriors they actually exist in-game just not as a playable class. You can find much lore about blood elf warriors in Shadowmoon Valley for example during quests, and the term is mentioned specifically.Baggins 19:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Additionally that information doesn't belong in the "player race" section as it is more about culture lore rather than in-game WoW mechanics. Obviously you can't choose felsworn, scout, warrior, etc, in World of Warcraft.Baggins 19:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, should there not be a Blood elf lore classes directly underneath the class listing in the player race section? In essence there are two sections talking about exactly the same thing in the page as it stands. --- Katriana 19:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really, since the above has to do more with "culture" a lore section, the bottom is more to do with MMO gameplay.Baggins 19:54, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, can I ask permission to remove the Lore Classes section (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_elf#Blood_elf_lore_classes) from the MMO gameplay section then, and to add the Blood Mage to the first of the two classes sections, seeing as it currently misses it? --- Katriana 19:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, ya go ahead and expand the culture lore section. However the player class section should only list the classes available to MMO players.Baggins 20:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done - hope this is okay. I've taken out the Lore classes from the MMO section and added references to priests and blood mages to the cultural section - I figured Rogues were covered more adequately by scouts, culturally. The priest sentence might need editing somewhat (I admit I tend to lose track of RP arguements about blood elf priests) but I thought they needed a mention in there. --- Katriana 20:14, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The lore behind scouts and rogues are different, and both are seperate classes in the rpg actually. Be careful not to remove information only add information. Basically it should cover brief info for all lore related classes.Baggins 20:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Blood elf population
For anyone that cares I did the math, over in Talk:Horde, and came up with approximately 257,200 total blood elves, and approximately 25,720 total high elves still in existence, based on the percentages we have been given, and numbers given in the RPG.Baggins 03:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've got to admit it - that's more than I thought there'd be. A whole lot more. 25 million to start with? For a medieval kingdom, that's one hell of a big number: in comparison, 17th century England (I think - it could be Britain as a whole) had only about 3 million citizens. It currently has a population of almost 60 million. 25 million goes beyond world superpower if we use medieval demographics. Either someone in Blizzard got overexcited with numbers and percentages and just messed up (likely, considering that everyone else is rather less numerous); or this real-world comparison doesn't apply and Azeroth is just really heavily populated. -- 00:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually you make a mistake in your calculation Vorbis. It's actually quite close to your England number you stating. If we take the remaining 25 000 high elves and multiply them by 10 (as in thier number before the splintering) we would get 250 000 Elfs. If we then multiply this number by ten again (as in before the scourge attack) we get 2.5 million and not 25 million. Again very rough estimates, since Blizzard doesn't give us official numbers. But it wouldn't be very weird for a Kingdom as thriving as the High Elf one was, before the Scourge attack, to have 2.5 million inhabitants. --Dehnus 17:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, you're right. I tripped up on my math and didn't check it over. I thought it was a bit of an odd number... :D -- 21:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * They be wabbits. :pBaggins 00:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Weird thing is that the Highborne were only the noble few amongst the night elf masses. Either enormous families and rapid population growth is the Highborne norm, or Zin-Azshari was one helluva bigass city. -- 00:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You also kinda blame blizzard for using abritrary numbers like "90%" or "85%" if they had just said "most" had died, then there would have been no way to work backwords with the math ;). In anycase I'm sure you have seen the Alliance population right? 800,000 in the Church of the Light currently? We know most of the humans were killed during the last couple of wars? That would imply humanity must have had a large number at one time as well...

ya, if you look closely enough for references, it seems most races have been described as having been driven nearly to extinction by the Second or Third wars, :p.Baggins 00:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Odd then that this point isn't being driven home by Blizzard. The humans are also described as being "among the youngest races on Azeroth, but they make up for it by being the most populous". If this is true, then every other sapient race on Azeroth must have recieved one hell of a thrashing at some point. -- 10:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You mean like the gnomes, trolls and high elves? XD--Blayaden 18:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Stupidity?
I think one of reasons that the blood elves felt the human betrayed them are very stupid, the reason is that Lordaeron did not send troops to save them, i mean how could they when Arthas destroyed lordaeron, killed Terenas, and took over several villages already?--Gurluas 21:01, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, the Alliance; not Lordaeron.
 * "The high elves officially withdrew from the Alliance after the Second War under the belief that not enough troops were sent to protect Quel'thalas, and thus led to a needlessly engorged amount of slaughter and destruction. A few high elves remained under their own volition to continue serving the Alliance, but the loyalty of even these voluntary troops waned after the second sacking of Quel'Thalas by Arthas, to which the Alliance took no steps in intervening."
 * I agree that their demands were somewhat unreasonable considering such a reaction to Arthas' Blitzkreig was likely logistically impossible, all mobilised forces of the Alliance which could lend such aid probably being behind the Scourge war machine in the north of Lordaeron when it launched the assault. Furthermore, as you can see from the Warcraft III mission, the Scourge took the elves completely by surprise. Nevertheless, having just lost their homeland and without this knowledge, I suppose the high elves serving in the Alliance forces were probably questioning why they were not there to protect it. They were also probably bitter in that events had played out the same way as during the Second War; when the Alliance had had the ability to protect the elves but did nothing. It was Garithos who really tipped the scales though, and it's his actions which made humans so hated by the blood elves. -- 00:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean the Alliance did nothing in the Second War? From what I've read, they did everything they could to protect the elves. They couldn't keep the Horde from wrecking Quel'thalas, but that wasn't from lack of trying. Also another thing that the high elves don't take into acount is that they LEFT the Alliance. It's pretty jerkish to expect them to save them even after abandoning them.--Austin P (talk) 03:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Out-dated information
The vast majority of the information found under Relations on this page cites, which, while it is technically a canonical source, it is a bit out-dated. This was written and published back in early 2004. The TBC was not even announced and there were no Horde Blood Elves. All the points of view offered here are based off of conceptions of the Illidari Blood-Elves (a despicable lot even to their Azerothian kin), which were all we knew at the time. I move we find a more current source that can describe the playable faction. Meneldir Dec 12th 2007


 * A few problems your accusations;

Lore policy Baggins 19:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 1. Read our policy on Lore, and the fact we do not allow the use of the term, canon.
 * 2. Our policy on perceived contradictions;
 * 2. Monster Guide, 2007, backs up much of what was said in A&HC about racial animosity and distrust between blood elves and Kalimdor Horde races. Other sourcebooks such as Alliance Player's Guide discusses the same issues the Alliance has.
 * 4. A&HC actually represents an official era within Warcraft Lore, as in between The Frozen Throne, and World of Warcraft chronologically. It hasn't "simply been retconned". Some of the distrust felt at that time still lingers in the present.
 * 5. Much of the distrust between blood elves and Kalimdor Horde still appears in the game during quests, and the fact that blood elves start out as only "neutral" to the rest of the Horde. Additionally, from early quests you learn that there are only one set of blood elves, and they still more or less Answer to Kael'Thas through Grand Magister Rommath. Its not until players reach 60 that they personally learn what the player blood elves have become in Outland, and individually turn on the their brethren there. This is however, not the case for majority of blood elves on Azeroth itself (rumor has it that Silvermoon blood elves will be assisting him at the Sunwell).

Also, lest you haven't noticed, this article is not just about "playable blood elves", its about all blood elves, thoses in Outland, those in Silvermoon (& Horde), and those that chose to remain Independent (actually includes those of Outland), but all make up the same race.Baggins 20:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I speak not of contradictions or of retcons or but of the changing of time. The period that A&HC covers did happen, I don't doubt, but things have changed since then.  If this wiki were to have articles considering our own people, it would be unwise to talk about the Cold War still going strong or leaving off with President Clinton's presidency with out continueing.  I concede that you are right about the Kalimdoran horde's relation to the blood elves.  The part that says "The Alliance prefers that blood elves stay neutral" is still most definitely out of date and should be removed as the majority of the Blood Elves are no longer neutral (yes they start out Neutral to all factions except the forsaken, but that only lasts for the first 20 levels, and they are in the process of applying for membership).
 * Now, concerning what you have said about the Illidary BEs and the Silvermoon BE's being the same race, it's true, but they are not the same faction. However as you wisely pointed out, this artical covers the race, not just one faction thereof.  As such, I move that the article be ammended only on this point:  the Silvermoon BE's have no relations to the Naga, as there are no Naga that they are capable of communicating with in-game, and all Naga are killable.  Let it keep saying that the Illidari BE's are friendly with them, but let it represent both.
 * Finally, you mention rumors of Silvermoon BE's assisting at the Sunwell. This does not surprise me, and I would like to learn more.  Would you please tell me where you found this rumor that I might investigate it.?  Meneldir  12 Dec 2007  P.S.  Thankyou for letting me know about the C-word, from now on I'll use the word legitimate.

Again, terms like canon, retcon, "legitimate", "illigitamte should all be avoided. As they are all based on opinion, and go against certain parts of our "NPOV" policy. We tend to just use the term "lore", and keep it at that. We try to avoid terms that have too much of a positive or negative conenation, and fall in the realm of "opinion". Its not so much a problem in a talk page, but should not appear in the articles themselves. Thanks for your time.

As for the "neutrality" that's individuals make names for themselves, and work towards "exalted" with other races, not the race as a whole. The race as a whole is semi-indepedent of the Horde, infact the RPG makes a big deal about there being essentially two Hordes and the Forsaken ones being seperate in Horde Player's Guide which takes place during World of Warcraft era. As for the animosity between the two hordes, that's actually mentioned in Horde Player's Guide, as well. Again, Forsaken let them, but Kalimdor Horde still isn't 100% trusting or accepting of them. You have to understand there is a balance between lore, and gameplay mechanics in the MMO itself. The RPG is a bit more detailed on the issue. As for naga connection to "all blood elves" that's actually mentioned in Monster Guide, but due to game mechanics not seen in the game. Only occasionally will you come across quests that discuss the animosity between the Eastern and Western Horde. Sometimes you only learn about it from the Alliance POV as they sometimes get ahold of evidence, of the races backstabbing their 'allies', after killing particular Forsaken or blood elf characters.

As for the rumors of Sunwell, you'd have to go back to Blizzard forums, and read certain previews for Sunwell plateau at game sites. That's where I had read the material, but I can't hink of specific links. Also, before you toss Illidari around too much, I suggest you read the article, Illidari. There is way to much speculaton on how that term is properly applied, and to which factions under Illidan.Baggins 20:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I just checked, the idea that the majority of the blood elves in Quel'thalas wait around for the promised return of Kael'Thas is actually mentioned in the TBC manual as well.Baggins 21:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Tis true, tis true. In the mean time, might I suggest that in the relations section we add the utter emnity that the BE's (all sides, whether they be horde, Illidari, or Scryer) have managed to earn from the Draenei.  Meneldir

Swords and Bows
Do you think the BEs have the shortbow & scimitar proficiency is because they're either weaker then the High Elves (they have the longbow and longsword proficiency), or just to seperate the two?  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  17:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably just to separate; there's no indication in lore that Blood elves are physically weaker than High elves, unless they're suffering from magical withdrawal. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

The Horde must be sick of theire diplomats
(Correct me if I am wrong but) I remember hearing that EVERY SINGLE BLOOD ELF PLAYER is the diplomat for them to join "THE" Horde (The word the should not be used as it implies there are no other hordes.). Wouldn't you think that they are trying a little too hard to get in (especialy since the blood elves have the largest population in a horde). Makes you think that Quelthalas is a massive addition to that horde yet their leaders are whiny bitches THAT DO EVERY THING FOR FUCKING MEMBER SHIP. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Point of note, the fact that your player is a diplomat isn't lore, because your player is not official.Baggins 02:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Whats with the shouting? 04:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Dwarven?
ok first of all why(y) does Blood Elves speak dwarven or dwarvish? 03:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

When they were high elves they used to be friends of the Wildhammer dwarves. They also used to be friends of the Alliance.Baggins 03:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Baggins you beat me to it. HOW ACTIVE ARE YOU ANYWAY? (I was just about to answer it in the same manner (which would be the 1st time I was productive.)--The last Alterac 03:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

and did u answer my other question on ur page....nvm 04:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)? 04:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Whats the point if Baggins has already answered it??This isn't some maths video game (where you get asked a question and even if you get it wrong or right (if you get it wrong it corrects you) there is a large chance of it asking the same question next time,)--The last Alterac 07:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Misprint?
Under the picture of the crest, the link to see article was named: Icon of blood. Is it just a misprint or is it the true name of the crest? (Hewbie 15:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC))


 * As far as I know they're the official names, but the crest pages have not yet been updated (or moved). 17:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The artwork is listed as the Icon of Blood on the Sons of the Storm website, so that's the proper name of the crest. Suzaku 23:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Wildstorm comic & blood elves?

 * These traits are likely to be passed down genetically, though it is also possible that some traits may also be passed down from mothers to children while they are in the womb, or even by breast feeding

Huh, how does the wildstorm comic discuss how blood elves pass on their traits? Isn't the blood elf in that story an adult? TFT took place only about 3-4 years before World of Warcraft. If the comic story takes place around the beginning of World of Warcraft, she would have had to have become a blood elf after TFT, while she was still an adult.Baggins 22:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * They be fed with magic since birth, and then they become addicted after the destruction of da Sunwell, mon. Blood Elven culture came after. Durendal 05:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course, that's what I was saying. The person before was implying the blood elf in the comic was a blood elf as a small child. The comic doesn't actually take place more than a few years after TFT, she's already an adult. Thus why I removed that line above.Baggins 18:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The entry actualy is valid, though i'm not gonna add it back myself, you guys can decide wha to do with it. Broll and Valeera get into an arguement abour arcane magic while in the cages in orgrimmar. Later that night Valeera is still seething and comforts herself saying its not her fault, she couldn't help but aquire the addiction, that "as a babe, i drank in magic with my mother's milk. I didn't ask to be dependant on it. And it helped me to survive!" 19:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Weird, there may be some kind of inconsistency going on in the comic and other sources, as far as timing of when she should have been a child and when blood elves should have first appeared, and other age related issues. Not so much wrong with the idea that they had an addiction however. Even high elves had an addiction to magic before Sunwell was destroyed. An addiction that lead to that lead to withdrawl symptoms after destruction of the well.Baggins 09:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * She says her parents were killed by human bandits when she was a kid, and she did just fine since ("...even survived the scourge"), if she's an adult, her parents may have been killled sometime before the Second War, and seeing as the new number includes the battle of Warsong Gulch, the comic storyline is developed in about 2-3 years after TFT, with newly formed Blood Elves, before they were part of the horde...Durendal 15:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Throwing Axe?
Why do BE rogues start ou with throwing axes? I mean BEs are always seen with like daggers if they have a meele weapon it seems.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  18:31, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And thats not even the most annoying thing...they start Paladins Blood Knights with a two-handed sword...and then the very first weapon reward you receive offers no two-handed sword >< 20:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Traditionally (Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne) Blood Knights are a sword and shield class.-- Sir Tristram (Speak, mortal. My Conquests.) 18:45, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Saved
Do you think the blood elves could be saved by sucking divine magic?TharamaDawnblade 12:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum. Please direct questions directly to specific users or else to an analysis subpage. Wiki discussion pages are for discussing editorial changes to the article itself.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Splitting it into Blood elves(Playable)
Theres tons of differences between Silvermoon Blood elves, Scryer Blood elves, and Kael's blood elves. Anyone else think that this should be split? Zarnks 07:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, while they have their differences, all of the above are still Blood Elves and identify themselves as such. Should remain one page for the race as a whole.


 * However its funny you bring this up now. the same type of thing occoured to me earlier. That someone reading this page who doesnt know much about Blood Elves might be a bit confusion and not understand about the fracturing of the race's unity. I think the article could do a much better job at explaining each seperate "faction" and their points of views and allegiances, as to not accidently villinize or glorify any particular group by sharing of the name. Most of the information is already in the article, just not easily understood with a quick scan through. Should be more distinct and "obvious" imo. A highly objective, neutral point of view and writing style would be a must however.


 * All are Blood Elves however, and while a (Playable) article may be appropriate for the humans, trolls, etc... as their playable factions are very distinct (humans of stormwind, and trolls of the darkspear) no such black and white line exists for the Blood Elves (Silvermoon or Quel'thalas blood elves arent a distinct political body). Scryers are, but they don't unbecome Blood Elves when becoming Scryers and their orginization already has a page. And while a blood elf may be loyal to Kael'thas it is still a Blood Elf. And sections for the distinct variations and offshoots (Wretched, Felblood, etc...) already exist, just like a page for fel orcs. Though they are still orcs just like the others are still blood elves. 07:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The Blood elves of Quel'thalas became even more distinct in 2.4 in which they openly declare war on Kael'thas and his followers. The relationships section while it fits the Outland blood elves like a glove doesn't work for the blood elves of Quel'thalas. For one they have no possitive interactions with naga. They give a lot of thought to the Horde and Alliance. The Horde and even some members of the Alliance treat them with respect. Zarnks 07:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * While they openly decalre war they still have no distinct name, they are blood elves fighting against their blood elf brethren. Scryers too. All fall primarily under the title Blood Elf. The article is about Blood Elves as a whole. While discint groups such as the scryers (a tangible ingame faction), the wretched, felbloods (physical mutations/offshoots), etc...merit their own pages, the blood elves of silvermoon and those loyal to Kael'thas are all Blood Elves. Maybe if later they are given a bit more distinction (Lorthemar makes a formal declaration, denounciaton, etc...), right now the players are fighting Kael'thas not nessesarly silvermoons armies (only the Blood knights have denounced Kael) and we don't see Tyrande, Thrall, or Magni sending combatants but rather the Shattered Sun offensive. If something like that happened then should the articles be split but the majority of this article (society, addiction, etc...) is equaly applicable to all blood elves. Again the article could definetly do a better job of seperating a few of the differing aspects (relationship with the naga for one) but theres really no justification for the article to be split into two. It would be like creating two sepeate articles for the citizens of Theramoore (pro-Jaina and pro-Daelin) or for the disenters in the Cenarion Cirlce (Remulos' camp and Fandral's). The conflict should be explained within the article the encompasses all. 08:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd have to agree with Warthok, simply think of it as a civil war...its brother against brother, but they are the same people. Only thing different is how they think/react to the situation. 17:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Like the differences between High Elf and Blood Elf, Coobra?. Technically High Elves and Blood Elves are one and the same, the same species in every way. The differences are in allegiance, attitude, opinion, and approach to the arcane. I wold dare say that its becoming clear by now as its pretty much always been that theres a fairly wide difference in the above points between Quel'Thalassians and Felbloods/Sunfury. I've always found it odd there was never an article for Kael'Thas's faction. I guess it could have been halfway justified before the Azerothian Belfs knew about Kael's fall and split officially but yeah. At this point I think theres more difference between Thalassians and Outlanders, especially considering the felbloods, then there is between Belfs and Helfs.

My 2 cents. --Nurizeko 21:44 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Except, because of the way the blood elves abuse the arcane energy, they themselves have changed...slowly working themselves towards being the wretched. So, yes, they were once the same. Key word 'were'. 22:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * With the excpetion of the Felblood (who have their page), Blood Elves of all factions more closely resemble other Blood Elves than any group of them resemble the High Elves. 04:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The only difference between belfs and helfs is an eye glow, the only physological difference at all. Were not talking about proper racial distinctions here because biologically there really isn't any. What were discussing is why Kael'Thas' Blood Elves don't have their own faction page like the High Elves. I really don't see a reason why not, I mean, as things go, the Outland belfs far exceed all High Elf presence in WoW yet the helfs have a whole racial page while the outlanders have nary an article. The elves under Kael'Thas are a potent faction in the lore, both in WoW and otherwise.


 * I'm sticking with the opinion Kael's elves need an article. Its unfortunate Blizzard have never really stuck them with their own unique cover all faction name, nether the less, the faction does exist in the lore. --Nurizeko 18:25 21 Febuary 2008 (UTC)

Actually Coobra Silvermoon's blood elves don't abuse magic and control their magic addiction. Thats what seperates them from wretcheds and felboods. Can't we just create a Silvermoon blood elf page? We have a Stormwind human page so I don't see what the problem is. Zarnks 19:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * High Elves are trying to abandon or supress their addiction, not every last one but as a race thats the direction they are trying to move. Silvermoon Blood Elves, while they now despise their prince, have not given any indication of wanting to abandon arcane magic. rather they still want to control it. They have no intention of going as far as kael'thas and felblood, but they are still a magic addicted using race. They enjoy magic, it makes life easier, it makes them strong, formidible, etc... and even with the betrayal of kael'thas they continue to openly and blatantly use arcane magic. 20:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the situation is different, if for no other reason than there are more humans and human factions than blood elves and blood elf factions- Stormwind humans might not be mainstream humans (or they could be, I'm fuzzy on that side of lore). Baggins would be the person to discuss this with, as he spearheaded the playable races splits. Of course, the Scryers already have their own page, and this page is essentially on the playable faction, so the only issue is: is there enough unique lore to warrant the separate of the playable and main article? Personally, I think not.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It would make sense though to clarify in areas of the article on what blood elves some of the things apply to. Such as clarifying that only Kael's elves are in good relations with the Naga as both the Silvermoon and Scryer blood elves have no good relations with the Naga. Basically the relationships part needs edited in my opinion to at least reflect the current player blood elves more rather than Kael's blood elves so much with so much else on their relationships with other races that were written in a book that came out in 2004. A lot has changed game-wise and lore wise since 2004 (such as them being on the horde now which has changed their relationships quite a bit) and that entire area of the article is just quote after quote of that book with nothing it seems from WoW and should have some of it trimmed out. Leviathon 07:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed Leviathon. 08:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I concur. --Nurizeko 21:18 25 Febuary 2008 (UTC)

Funny, this conversation (at least the end of it) looks very similar to one I had with Baggins earlier, only it played out a little different. Look up at out-dated info. Meneldir 16:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well things are starting to officially change now with 2.4 at least with the blood elves. Course even back in December 2007 when you suggested that it made perfect sense to edit the page then as of all the races the blood elf page is pretty bad with the quote and quote of the RPG books which while nice are outdated compared to recent changes that the books were written before. But it would be best just to do one are at a time and the relations area definitely needs cleaned up. Course just like before its up to whether Baggins agrees with changing things since he seems to be the race guy. Leviathon 17:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Splitting it into Blood elves and Silvermoon Blood Elves
well, its kinda done already (blood elves playable) but i guess it could be rephrased as silvermoon blood elves and also add the info of kael's betrayal in tempest keep and sunwell plateau, i've read both articles and i find a lack of clarification, maeby im wrong, but i think that it should look like the human and stormwind human page, as in that theres a bunch of belf factions to different one to the other. what do yo think?--Beloren (talk) 01:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

2.4
Given the conversation above, will this particular page be doing anything to cover the changes coming in 2.4? It wouldn't happen until the patch is actually released, i'd assume, but will anything be happening at all? Meneldir 16:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Proper way would be to place a new section after the old, with the WoW or wow section template designating updates in the game's storyline. The older lore is an official part of the history developing up to where the blood elves are now. But new stuff hasn't exactly occured in the published world yet.Baggins (talk) 01:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Priest
Not in these exact words, but in the Blood Knight article it says that the Blood Elf race has begun to lose it's light given powers. Do the priests use the Blood Knight's tapped power too? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

No the High Elves Always had priests. In warcraft 3 forexample, priests were high elves. Their powers came from them not the Bloody Knights.--Gurluas (talk) 12:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Relationship
First, lets refer to Blood Elves, as Blood Elves instead of simply Elves. Also since when did the Blood Elves have the support of the Amani trolls which are their enemies?--Gurluas (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It says Forest trolls, not Amani. 18:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There are alot of forest trolls who are not Amani. Revantusk as a point...Baggins (talk) 18:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Alignment
This article currently has two subsections titled Alignment. One is rather short, the other marked with. I might look into this shortly, but invite others to do so as well. - LastStand (talk) 10:19, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

"Doubtful Claim" = Speculation?
"The blood elves therefore set about learning to drain magic from alternative sources.(A highly doubtful claim, considering Kael'thas was told that by Lady Vashj, who at the time was sent by Illidan to recruit the blood elves.) "

The part in parenthesis should be deleted or moved to a speculation section. It is at least partially true that arcane withdrawal was fatal. The oldest and most vulnerable of the high elves/blood elves died shortly after the destruction of the Sunwell, probably due to the strain of the withdrawal and mental burden of the addiction. Also, it was Kael'thas who assumed the addiction was fatal, and nowhere during Kael's and Vashj's encounters did she actually claim it was deadly. Granted Vashj may have lied by omission, but neither she nor Illidan directly deceived the young prince. Also, Vashj was not sent to "recruit" the blood elves. If memory serves, she introduced the blood elves to Illidan, saying that they too were the children of the Highborne. Horderoyale (talk) 05:43, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Your initial idea was correct. Anything other than deleteion would be too good for the propaganda posted. If you see something like that feel free to revert it and ask for citations (a source specificly stating such a claim). 08:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Dislike of Hunters?
If this was in the article, I didn't see it. Sorry about that, in advance. Anyway, it seems to me that Blood Elves seem to dislike hunters, despite both elven races being decent hunters. One, has anyone noticed this, and two, is there any reason for this dislike? Safyria (talk) 02:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think in the case the line between blood elves and blood knights got a little blurred. The blood knights certainly disdain the Farstriders, who are ostensibly "hunters." In regards to the broader blood elf population, the Farstriders are seen as honourable defenders of the realm. What source states that blood elves dislike hunters? Strength and Honour, Horderoyale (talk) 02:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * All you need to do to see my source is ask one of the guards in SilverMoon where the Hunter trainer is, and you'll see my point. Safyria (talk) 03:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, thought so. The Silvermoon City Guardians are subservient to the blood knights and as such share their views on the Farstriders (essentially "hunters" of blood elf society). They kneel before and praise Champion Vranesh, in addition to kneeling before any blood knight thats uses /eye on them. Their opinions are those of the blood knight order and are not a solid assessment of the blood elven majority. Strength and Honour, Horderoyale (talk) 07:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Use of Case
The header for this talk page (and the policy discussion it links to) indicates that agreed spelling is lower case (with the exception of sentence capitalization of course). The.bandit23 edited the physical appearance section to match the rest of the article. Admirable, except that given the policy, it is the rest of the article that should be changed instead. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The only problem I have with this policy is that if you look in any grammar book whatsoever, it will state that the name of a race is to be capitalized.  The.bandit23 (talk) 20:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC) the.bandit23, June 16, 2009.
 * If by "race" you mean species (as is really the case in WoW), then...no. I don't call a bear a Bear.  In any case, community guidelines > grammatical rules as far as race capitalization best practices on WoWWiki. -- 20:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem with this is that we don't classify things like in real life The.bandid23, if Blizzard use blood elves as lower case then we should do the same. Look at the encyclopedia and look that the race is not capitalized (except in the title). Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

This discussion was started here, but it was continued in Forum:Race capitalization, comment there if you wish to continue.

Alignment
I think the guy who just edited the page(Nathtaleth- 13/6/2010) made a huge mistake,the blood elves are like the opposite of the Nazi's and not the Nazi's... They are more like Jews,and the Scourge are more of the Nazi's...(Look up on the web and learn about Jewish History and Culture to understand me better) Although,we might see this situation from a different perspective,Me from the view of a Jew who doesn't deny the holocaust,and he from the view of a guy who have no clue about the holocaust(he might have a clue but i guess from his words that he doesn't)...
 * New comments go on bottom of the page and please sign your posts. The last edit was wikification, It didn't even touch that paragraph. I think you need to familarize yourself more with wikis. Also it appears you misread and/or completely minunderstood what the passage was saying (from where did you pull out holocaust denial?). Regardless however the passage is irrelevant and has been removed. 09:41, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Blood Elf colonies in Outland.
In 20 warcraft years does anybody think the Blood Elves will have established Colonies in Outland that are friendly to the Horde. Because I remember on World of Warcraft site reading a article where blood elf pilgrims are making their way to Outland. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 04:45, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Falcon Watch? 04:50, July 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Falcon Watch is a Horde-Blood Elf settlement which I already know but thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering if in the future if the Blood Elves would expand beyond falcon watch and build new settlement in Outland. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 04:54, July 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * If Blizz brings Outland into the present it's a possibility, but since they have no plans to update Outland, I doubt it will happen. 05:17, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

I got the impression the pilgrims made their way to Outland in order to reunite with Kael'thas in Tempest Keep. With their king having made the rather odd decision of allying himself with Kil'jaeden's legion, the motivation of pilgrimaging to Outland disappears. With the Scourge destroyed, the blood elves will probably focus on restoring Eversong Woods and Ghostlands to it's former glory.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 21:03, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Physical Appearance
I've noticed that the page says that Blood Elves are paler than High Elves, and visually this is untrue, Blood Elves are tanner and this could be explained by the loss of the Sunwell keeping them looking "youthful".-- Sir Tristram (Speak, mortal. My Conquests.) 10:12, 29 October 2010 (UTC)