Talk:Ashbringer/Archive01

Removing stuff
Why did Stormangel remove the image and the item data? --Fandyllic 1:26 PM PDT 24 May 2006

Im not sure about the image,but chances were that they were not the right states. Tampler

Real Weapon?
Is this a real weapon in game? --Fandyllic 00:25-8hrs (PST) 14 December 2005

Yes it is a real weapon in terms that it exists in the game's files. Game Masters have wielded it on Test Realms. However the weapon cannot be acquired on official servers at this point, the questline has not been implemented. --User:Shin

There has been alot of discussion on the WoW forums about it.

Original post: 

New post: 

--Nikz 23:01, 14 Dec 2005 (EST)

Neither of these threads work any more. Is there an archive (though it would be not as trusted a source)? Piepants 17:51, 16 April 2006 (EDT)Piepants

Real Weapon
As of patch 1.8, this is not a real weapon.... yet. It may have been added since 1.9, or it may be added in a future patch/expansion.

Aguilar, the french Community Manager, said the 14 February that "A l'heure actuelle, rien est prévu pour ajouter cette arme au jeu." : "For the moment, nothing is designed to add this weapon in the game." 

C'Thun's Legend
Isn't the legendary trinket C'Thun can drop or the quest reward from it rather for spellcasters? If that's true then Ashbringer may very well be found in Naxxramas since that would be the most logical place for it to drop. I don't think it really matters to casters if their legendary item is a weapon because weapons don't help us all that much--Darkling235 17:28, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

Ashbringer in naxxramas
Many people are saying that a corrupted version of ashbringer will be in Naxxramas.There is also a Rumour that there will be a quest to "clense" the sword,so it will be no longer evil.

please note that this is still only rumours though.

Corrupted ashbringer will stay as it is. Mograine's younger son will build an all new (and probably even more powerful) one at Outland. --mko 08:11, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

Change It Back To Legendary
Someone changed the normal ashbringer from legendary to artifact.Can someone please change it back to legendary as I really dont think it's a artifact. --Tampler

Bring the Corrupted Ashbringer into the Monastry-go on Funny things will happen.

Order of the Silver Hand
Judging from the last portion of Eligor Dawnbringer's quote, it seems that Tirion Fordring was successful, at least partially, in reforming the old Paladin Order. --Adonzo 19:39, 27 June 2006 (EDT)

The Will of the Ashbringer
Maybe I missed this bit of the news but what exactly is "The will of the Ashbringer"? It's the first equip "bonus" listed. Maybe I'm just skeptical but that doesn't exactly sound like a bonus to me. -Geofram


 * If I'm not mistaken, the Will of the Ashbringer causes various triggers throughout the game to go off, resulting in members of the Argent Dawn and the Scarlet Crusade to react to you differently (example: Crusaders in the Scarlet Monastery become friendly). It's is also responsible for the voices (although I'm sure what triggers the voices... a Crit maybe?)  --Adonzo 18:06, 29 June 2006 (EDT)


 * The will is Acually Mograine's Voice telling you his story in a ravaged voice and commanding you to"kill...them...all"This is either the scourge,the Crusade,or Both.The only downside is Mograine might drive you virtually insane.And also you are friendly with Scarlet.

Nat Pagle's Guide to Extreme Anglin'
Apparently there are now two books that refer to the Ashbringer. Nat Pagle's Guide to Extreme Anglin' from Alterac Valley and A Thoroughly Read Copy of "Nat Pagle's Extreme' Anglin." from Dire Maul. A Thottbot theory has that you can combine the books somehow and turn in to the Prince at the Dire Maul Library who will help you find the Ashbringer. It's an interesting theory and I currently have Nat Pagle's Guide to Extreme Anglin', so I'll report more when I find out.

Corrupted Ashbringer vs Ashbringer
Be sure to keep major info pertaining to Corrupted Ashbringer on that page, Ashbringer should include info referring to the uncorrupted version that Highlord Mograine held and/or the eventual player-usable version that is presumed to come in The Burning Crusade.

It Dropped
http://risen-guild.com/


 * Yes, but that is the Corrupted Ashbringer - which is NOT Ashbringer -- Jaxdahl 13:15, 20 September 2006 (EDT)

Remove from Rumors Category
... since it is proven now. --Venn 07:41, 12 October 2006


 * Until Blizzard confirms it's in the game it isn't truly proven. Screenshots and tooltips from WoW DBs can be faked. Evidence is getting better. The most recent data in WoW DBs for Ashbringer makes it kind of lame for a legendary item, so I doubt we've seen the real thing in game. -- Fandyllic (talk) 10:16 AM PDT 12 Oct 2006

So... Now TBC CB has started...
Has anyone with a Corrupted Ashbringer gotten a pass into the BC closed beta? Even if the quest was 70+, perhaps we could see whether it's possible to recieve the quest to make it/see if there's any additional information from Fairbanks.

Creation of the Ashbringer
This information is from this topic: http://www.olgamer.net/olg/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68 It was posted by someone from the BC beta test. They found several key NPCs related to the ashbringer lore inside southshore inn within the caverns of time (the caverns of time hillsbrad instance, taking place not long before the scourge invasion).

Summary: Basically, Morgraine (or however you spell it) had in his possesion an evil orc artifact that was created from pure darkness (he goes on to explain how it had scarred his hand when he touched it). The others (primarily Tiras Fording) wanted to destroy it but Morgraine had other ideas. He surmised that if an item could be made from pure darkness, then its opposite (an item of pure light) coule be forged as well. Tiras insisted on destroying and tryed to use his light powers to destroy it. It didn't and the artifact absorbed the light and somehow changed it from an item of pure darkness to an item of pure light. When morgraine touched it, it healed his scarred hand. They then all made a solomn pact never to discuss this and to also make a weapon that was forged using the material of the artifact. This new weapon would burn the scourge to ashes.... so they called it The Ashbringer....

Thats basically the story. This brings up several interesting points:

1) It shows more of the origin of the ashbringer (which was mostly unknown). 2) Since the material it was made out of (the evil orc artifact) was originally evil and then turned good, this explains how the original ashbringer was corrupted: The material used to make it absorbs light/darkness and turns into it. It was probably so overwhelmed by darkness when Morgraine was defeated that it turned into the corrupted ashbringer. 3) The ORIGIN of the original artifact seems to have come from outlands. So this is an interesting turn of events as to make a new one you have to find his son who is also in outlands.


 * I found a more "synthetized" post with all the images in the same topic. It'd be better to transcript into the main article. http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=759 --Pulyx 20 October, 2006 05:54 (EDT)

Discarded Questline?
There used to be a lot of speculation about Timolain's Phylactery, Prince Torthelin, Nefarian's Head, etc. and Ashbringer. Many people have come to the conclusion that the aforementioned items were part of the orginial Ashbringer questline. The theory is that the designers started to plan Naxxramus and thought that Ashbringer would better fit in with that content, so they never finished the original questline to obtain Ashbringer.

Naaru Crystal
I'm adding a section on speculation that the crystal used to craft Ashbringer was actually part of a Naaru. The similarities are undeniable. --Tyrsenus 21:07, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Having just watched the Old Hillsbrad event, I am inclined to believe this theory, but to take it a step further--rather than being a part of a Naaru, it is extremely likely that the crystal is the Heart of Fury, the red Ata'mal crystal. That crystal was stolen from the Draenei by orcs, and was passed between various orc leaders to bolster the might of their armies. Its colour matches that of the purified version of the crystal, and its properties are very very similar to the common traits of the Scarlet Crusade. And unlike any other crystal, the Heart of Fury is backed up by previous lore, rather than just being "some random crystal pulled out of thin air for plot development". In addition, it ties the Draenei/Naaru together with old lore, which is something the devs have been trying to do a lot with TBC content. --Drustai 01:12, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, I could buy that it's part of a Naaru but it is definitely not the Heart of Fury, as that happens to be accounted for in game. It is a quest item in the quest "The Ata'mal Terrace." The quest involves you recovering the crystal from Illidari Fel Orcs in Outland and the return to Akama. The speculation concerning the Heart of Fury should probably be removed from the page. Meneldir 7:52, 10 April 2007 MST
 * It's way more likely that it's part of a Naaru than that it's one of the Ata'mal Crystals. Remember: when a Naaru dies, it's body turns into void.  It absorbs light energy around it until it has absorbed enough of it to return to life.  Similarly, the crystal was a chunk of darkness.  It absorbed light energy, but once enough had been channeled into it, it turned into a chunk of light.  It follows the life cycle of the Naaru perfectly. -- Dark T Zeratul 19:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
As to the "only a child" remark from Commander Dawnbringer, is it possible that he's only using expressive hyperbole? Renault Mograine could have been say, 17 or 18, in which case it would be quite possible for him to be a full-fledged Crusader already, but still young enough to be referred to as a "kid". Pendragon 23:10, 26 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Yes, it is rather ambigious. The Third War ended four years before the present time, and in Old Hillbrad (just prior to the beginning of WC3), we see Renault as a child.  However, in present time, we see him as a full grown adult, complete with beard.  He may indeed still be a teenager, however, there is no teen avatar in-game.  Possibly an oversight on Blizzard's part. --Tyrsenus 01:45, 28 March 2007 (EDT)


 * There's no "teenager" model, so at a stretch, let's say that the child model shows him as being 14. Four years later, 18 - definately old enough to have a beard. Just a thought :) 02:52, 28 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Recently Blizzard revealed that the Third War began six years before current time and lasted two years. Old Hillsbrad was right before the Third War, so that would make about a six year difference.  Makes more sense now.  He could have been as young as 12 the and still be 18 now.  I'm editing to reflect this.

 T y r s e n u s   t c    11:35, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Additionally, it might be a bit of a long stretch, but Commander Dawnbringer only refers to "Mograine's son" trying to recover the Ashbringer, not Renault specifically, so it's possible this could be Mograine's other son, whomever he might be. It's a bit of a stretch though and I'd rather stand by the hyperbole argument. Pendragon 23:18, 26 March 2007 (EDT)


 * I'm sure Dawnbringer was referring to Renault. At that point, Mograine's lost son would have already been trapped in Outland for several years along with the rest of the Alliance Expedition.--Tyrsenus 01:40, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Cleansed Ashbringer
For anyone attempting to post about "Cleansed Ashbringer"-- please don't, it's almost certainly fake. Not only are there grammatical errors in the allegedly data mined item description, but the fact that it was data mined qualifies it for removal under WP:DNP. -- 00:17, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I would just like to draw attention to the fact that there are now THREE Ashbringer files in the game: Corrupted Ashbringer, Ashbringer, and Cleansed Ashbringer. Corrupted Ashbringer is, of course, the sword chest drop from Naxxramas, Ashbringer is the GM sword, but what of Cleansed Ashbringer?


 * Some may argue that I have been faked out, taken for a ride, as it were, however in the WoW Model Viewer - which ONLY draws file names from the WoW files on YOUR computer - these three Ashbringer files can be found. Which is proof that all three of these weapons are in the game banks now.


 * ~ Peregrine


 * It doesn't matter. It's datamined info and it's not allowed. If and when it is released, you can post the info here, but not until then. Pzychotix 02:26, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

"Lord Fordring"
The "Lord Fordring" referred to by Dawnbringer is most likely Taelan Fordring, not his father Tirion Fordring. The NPC's which Dawnbringer is talking to are affiliated with the Scarlet Crusade, are doing business with the Argent Dawn merely to vanquish a common enemy, and are hardly on amiable terms. If you talk to the NPC's, you will notice they still harbor the blind zealotry of the Crusade. Although Taelan is killed in a quest, there is no evidence that any quests or any player actions thus far have had an impact on the storyline or lore of Warcraft. I'll leave it as is for now so it may be discussed. -- 23:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, lets see. In WoW, it seems like the story evolves around the own player character as he progresses through levels and regions. Since the Fordring quests are encountered earlier than the Chapel of Light's Hope (locationwise), it is quite possible to assume that the outcome of these quests already happened. And from what we know of Abbendis and Isillien, the latter one is more fanatical and unforgiving than the High General. With his death, it has become more likely for the Crusade to form a truce with the Argent Dawn. His death could have also influenced Abbendis' dependance to Isillien/Dathrohan, since Marjhan states the Grand Crusader is unaware that she has been sent as an emissary. Also, the way Dawnbringer speaks, it seems that he is not only referring to Marjhan when he speaks of "presence on amicable terms", but on the whole Crusader legation itself. Now, assuming that Tirion Fordring has re-established the Silver Hand, it would be likely that he would refrain from attacking the Crusaders if the Argent Dawn asks him to do so - but if the Argent Dawn recalls it's advocacy, or even asks for Tirion to see to remove Marjhan from their chapel, I'm sure he would comply. Last but not least, Dawnbringer also specifically refers to "knights", and the Crusaders call themselves Crusaders. They do have former Knights of the Silver Hand in their ranks, but Marjhan likely is one as well, so this would not make sense. Not to mention that Dawnbringer would be hard-pressed to call a Crusader a knight in the noble sense, for as you already mentioned, he does not really like them. Well - that's how I see it. --Tulon 15:15, 27 May 2007


 * There's some discussion on what effects players have on lore here. If you consider all previous quests to be complete before the introduction of Naxxramas, the Grand Crusader would be canonically dead (in The Truth Comes Crashing Down) and Marjhan would thereby not mention him.  Huntsman Leopold would not mention his brother Loksey who was killed as a part of In the Name of the Light. -- 23:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Leopold could have been resurrected by his brothers, much like (I think) Whitemane and Renault Mograine have been. You're right about the Grand Crusader, though. Still I think a vengeful Tirion Fordring, whose son has just been killed by the Scarlet Crusade, would much more like to make a Scarlet Commander "atone" than Taelan, who seems to be a rather benevolent leader according to the sourcebooks. But I guess the matter is open for discussion, of course. Tulon 03:15, 29 May 2007

Imprinted Hand
Why exactly was the speculation regarding the stylized hand removed? It clearly appears on the weapon's crystal, and it's not too hard to guess what a handlike symbol on a paladin's sword could stand for. --Tulon 15:15, 27 May 2007


 * It didn't fit with the history section, and yes, it's not too hard to guess why a sword created by the Silver Hand should bear their insignia. I'll add something to the pic description about it though. -- 23:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay - sounds good to me. Tulon 03:15, 29 May 2007


 * I just relized that the hilt is also the Lordearon 'L'.-- 21:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review
I have requested this article for a peer review. Please post general comments here, or make a new section for a more specific critique. -- 16:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems fine to me. Only one possible point is that the History section seems a tiny bit long, but most of it's relevant. The article is good as is. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 16:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, there are some external links that need to be turned into internal links in the History section. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 16:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Should the history section be broken up with level 3 headings? -- 23:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe something along the lines of "Creation" and err... "Betrayal"? Betrayal probably isn't the greatest word to describe it, but you get the idea. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 00:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The side picture of the blade is missing now - I don't see why it was taken out, especially since it fits nicely to the picture in the Corrupted Ashbringer article. Together with the picture the mentioning of the imprinted Hand symbol on the crystal has also gone lost. Tulon 19:20, 24 June 2007


 * It's of unreleased content, and was datamined. WP:DNP disallows it. At the moment, probably the only allowed type of picture would be of a GM wielding it on a public server, and I don't think they do that any more. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 19:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Correct. However, I see no reason why fan artwork couldn't be used, if someone were inclined.  -- 02:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You mean like this one? However, that picture has already been used in the Mograine article, I don't know if we should put in here again... Plus, you can't really see the hand-symbol there. -- Tulon 05:05, 14.07.2007


 * It seems like a well put together article in my oppinion. Rather long, but there is a lot of relevant material. Meneldir

Ashbringer vs. The Ashbringer
For the sake of anyone's curiosity, anytime the sword is being referred to, use simply "Ashbringer." When Mograine is being referred to please use "The Ashbringer." This just a guideline, but it's consistent with usage of the word in game. -- 11:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It is consistent, but everyone is hoping to know if the Ashbringer is even out yet? I heard some rumors that it was released but I don't know... 07:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope.-- 22:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Important Error
The Ashbringer page currently suggests that Ashbringer was going to be/is the next Legendary item to be seen in-game after Atiesh. With Forte receiving the first Blade of Azzinoth, that is no longer true.

In Wotlk
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=632.0 -- 18:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Mograine's Son
I don't think Khadgar should be listed as a viable candidate for being Mograine's son. First of, he should be too old. And second, during the Monastery event Fairbanks refers to him as "a more pious man you have never seen" (or something like that) - surely, no member of the Silver Hand and later the Scarlet Crusade would talk like that about a MAGE who is far from being religious. Especially since Khadgar has been knocked down by some Knights of the Silver Hand before simply because he's an arcanist. --Tulon 22:30, 7 September 2007


 * Khadgar's age is of some debate. Medivh cursed him with old age.  As for his alignment with the Light, he has strong connections with the Naaru, as he is an advisor to A'dal.  I'm beginning to think Mograine's son will be retconned out in WotLK with Tirion possessing Ashbringer, although it would be nice to keep that section for historical purposes anyway. -- 16:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the answer is now Highlord Darion Mograine. I suppose this cannot be written right now because we are still playing the beta and we must no offer spoilers, but here he is. [[Image:IconSmall_ForestTroll_Male.gif‎ ]] Ravenore, the Necroshadowmancer 07:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The Crystal
The shadow crystal remembers me of the spell Medivh casted when he opened the Dark Portal --N&#39;Nanz 09:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As a wizard of immense power, probably enough to take a Naaru or a high level Legion Eredar head on, I wouldn't be suprised if Medivh has come across simiar artifacts before. After all, he has knowledge of many things no one else on Azeroth has. His knowledge may even surpass those of Kil'Jaeden and Ner'Zhul. --Invin Dranoel 13:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Could be just the same doodad...-- 23:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Correct, it's likely just a reused model. -- 06:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

It IS Real, and is still online
Im on the [EPIC NAME REMOVAL] Private Server, which is a new server with the latest update (2.whatever) and the AshBringer is still there, Whoever i didnt know it had such hype around it! i just use it coz it looks cool, its got a random floating circle thing in it aswell. ill add a screenshot at somepoint if anyone wants to see. as far as i know you can only get it on GMIsland, from an Orc Teir who sells all the epic 2H Swords. As for it being removed on patch (and considered for later additions) this is not the case, the only way its "Not added to the game" is the way you cant normaly get it without being a GM or having a GM Summon you to the island. --KingStoph 10:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No it isn't. You can custom make any item you want with a private server, and custom make any npc sell the item anywhere. The admins of that server just made them up. -- Raze 13:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No he didnt, i know the Admin and he didnt add anything, its a normal server with a minor EXP/Gold/loot Boost. he didnt add it and the Vendors are there as standard, and the Admin didnt add them either as he spends most his time making the site. see for yourself! host a server of your own and go to GM Island, have a look about, close the server, and then say "oh you was right" :-D --KingStoph 15:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You can custom make anything with a private server. And I advise against anyone using them. They are illegal.  17:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As i just said, its not a custom item. it was already there --KingStoph 06:10, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Being in-game doesn't make it attainable by legitimate means. 15:06, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Just because you CAN hack somebody's account, doesn't mean the game is designed to let you do that. Just the opposite, in fact. ~Peregrine Faithbearer 19:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Beh, whatever. im just trying to clear something up for you guys being as there seems to be some confusion about it. Sorry for trying to help ¬_¬ --KingStoph 18:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I shall try to rephrase this: the item was itemized and has a model. However, it is not obtainable (and the stats are obviously no longer applicable). It is "real", but it is not "in-game". 19:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thats what ive been saying all long, as for the stats, my freinds gonna host his server shortly that im a GM on, so ill check them then... and ill add a screenshot to this page here aswell just so ya know--KingStoph 16:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Still, unless an item is actually in-game and obtainable, that doesn't make it legitimate, so for now Ashbringer is "not in-game". This is a lesson I learned the hard way from the admins when I kept posting WoW Model Viewer screenies of the Ashbringer in the article :) ~Peregrine - Master Chief FTW! 19:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Which came first, "Ashbringer" or "The Ashbringer"?
At the top of the article, it says that the sword was named after the man, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that this is true (althought I have no access to the RPG books or the like). In the Old Hilsbrad event that I read over, Tirion Fordring is the first to call the yet-to-be sword Ashbringer (in his words, "The Ashbringer"), based on Mograine's comments. This tends to lead me to think that it's eventual wielder was then named AFTER the sword, as he was the best man to use it, and the legend of the sword and the man became inseparable. If anyone can confirm/deny the article's naming convention, it would be much appreciated. Mondoblasto 07:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * From the SM event: "The sword that you carry on your back - it is known as Ashbringer; named after its original owner." -- 03:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If i remember correctly, it was called "Ashbringer" because it turned its target to ash.  04:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

David Wayne
I was looking around to screenshots of NPC while I saw David Wayne. Looking at his armor I noticed he wears the same leggings and gloves Highlord Mograine wears during the Old Hillsbrad event about the Ashbringer. DO you think this is only a coincidence? --N&#39;Nanz 17:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

But... he's not. If you look closely, the gloves have different patterns; and the leggings are different colors entirely. -- 17:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry to bust your bubble, but it doesn't look the same to me either. At this point I highly doubt David Wayne will have any role to play in reforging Ashbringer becuase of what we've seen on the Blizzcon test realm.  That, of course, is still subject to change. -- 18:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ehi guys, you know it? You are right!!! :D --N&#39;Nanz 18:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Weapon Stats Image
Since the weapon doesn't actually exist with those stats, shouldn't we replace it with a picture of the weapon itself? -- Dark T Zeratul 11:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's what I would think - having the item stats sitting there as the main image causes all sorts of misunderstandings. We don't use the joke Frostmourne stats as the picture for that page, do we? ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 14:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The only in-game image acceptable on Wowwiki is the one already shown with Tirion wielding it on the Blizzcon test realm. Any other images would be datamined and therefore unacceptable according to our DNP Policy. -- 04:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically, aren't the weapon stats themselves the result of data-mining? -- Dark T Zeratul 07:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, it came from way back when you could link things that were never seen, without getting disconnected. 09:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Even so, I think we need an accurate image of some sort as the main one, and those stats are anything but. -- Dark T Zeratul 09:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ashbringer was wielded by some GM's in the early days of WoW, when GM's actually took a physical avatar. Because they wielded it, it was linkable.  Even though the stats can still be datamined, they were at one time obtained through normal means, and therefore allowable.  Although there are some alleged images of GM's with Ashbringer from this time, there's no way to confirm they are real.  The Tirion image on the other hand is undoubtedly authentic.  -- 18:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If the item was linkable, would that not mean that the item would be viewable in the dressing room? Or, since it appears in an authentic image of Tirion holding it, would that not mean that using Model Viewer to get a screenshot, as has been done with numerous other mobs and items on this site, would be allowed? And if neither of those are the case, shouldn't we just put the Tirion image up as the main one, or at least a cropped version focused on the sword itself? Because using the stats as the main image is A) inaccurate and B) kind of sloppy for such a major lore piece. -- Dark T Zeratul 21:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't forget C) misleading, if I had a nickel for every time some poor sap on the forums said the Ashbringer would suck anyways after looking at these stats... tsk tsk. *shakes head* ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 22:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for going ahead and changing the image. Since "Ashbringer" describes both the weapon and the man, I think it would be preferable to use an image with both Mograine and the sword. I propose the image to the right, comments are welcome. -- 15:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but this article is about the weapon moreso than the man. That being said, it is a much more interesting image than a static weapon graphic.  I don't recall ever seeing it before, though... Snapshot taken via Model Viewer? -- Dark T Zeratul 22:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, forgot to mention I put it together with WMV. I copied Mograine's model used in Old Hillsbrad, slapped dreadnaught on it and a background.-- 03:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Lordaeron Symbol
Anyone but me noticed that the guard (or whatever that part that is between the blade and the hilt is called) is the symbol of the (alliance of) Lordaeron? It's exceptionally clear in the Blizzcon Tirion Fordring image. If it's not, it's really a coincidence. So, should I add it in the Trivia section or not? -- XAVIUS  ( This Clockwork Universe ) 16:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You are right and I don't think it's only a coincidence. the lower part of a "L" (maybe signifing Lordaeron) merged with the upper part of a "P" (maybe signifing Paladin). I vote for Trivia. --N&#39;Nanz 09:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Or this PL is just saying "People of Lordaeron".-- 13:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The P is just a fancy part of the L.-- 21:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Split Pages
I'd like to suggest that the information in this article be split into as many as 3 pages. Most of the rumors contained on the page now are known to be untrue or are just outdated. The Ashbringer article should be split into "Ashbringer Lore" telling the story of it creation, "Ashbringer (Pre-BC)" containing all of the old rumors, stats, and quest lines, and "Ashbringer" that will tell of everything that has been verified for Wrath of the Lich King and, eventually, how to acquire it. Renholder 12:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So it must be "Ashbringer (pre-WotLK)" but I agree with the split.-- 13:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think using sub-pages would keep things more organized. -- 18:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Seconded (Tyrsenus). ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 20:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I like the subpage idea.-- 20:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think rumors & speculation would make a good subpage, but I'm not sure what you mean when you say most are untrue or outdated. Turalyon and Khadgar should probably go, but aside from that, I think everything's pretty much up-to-date. -- 14:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Stats, Part Deux
Even if they ARE the official stats for the level 60 version of the weapon, the fact of the matter is that the weapon was never obtainable by any means other than being a GM. Since it (presumably) will be soon, I think having the stats in the article is, as I said before, inaccurate and misleading. -- Dark T Zeratul 22:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see it going either way. It can be misleading for the new folks, but anyone who's been around long enough will wonder why the stats aren't there if we remove them.-- 20:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Brann's account
For anyone interested, Brann brings up the Ashbringer, and even hints that there was another witness, or partial witness; "The Scarlet Crusaders at Light’s Hope seem obsessed with finding a weapon called “Ashbringer,” which Eligor insists is foolish. Apparently, he was there when the weapon was lost — apparently a man by the name of Highlord Mograine carried the holy blade, but his son betrayed and murdered him. I don’t know much more about the situation, sadly, but it seems like the Argent Dawn and the Scarlet Crusade are more closely connected than I thought. I asked Eligor for more information, but he just shook his head and told me that he couldn’t say much more — but I could go to someone else who knew more. Fairbanks. I’ll have to look up this “Fairbanks” later." Baggins (talk) 12:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This must be High Inquisitor Fairbanks. Also I remember Nat Pagle and Prince Tortheldrin saying they knew where it was. Doesn't Prince Tortheldrin's people mention that if you kill Nefarian and bring his head, he tells you where Ashbringer is located?   Rolandius (talk) 10:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They say that if you slew Nefarian and told him the story, that might entice him to tell you the story of the Ashbringer. This made sense back before it was replaced with Thunderfury. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 11:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just an observation: Eligor tells you to talk to Fairbanks, but Fairbanks is obviously dead (surely he would know that after a five-year absence). Unless Eligor had the foresight to know that he could be resurrected, this is paradoxical.  Again, just an observation. -- 15:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Mograine's other son
Has it been officially said who the other son of Mograine in Outland could be? Since WotLK takes place in Northrend, are we ever going to know? Rolandius (talk) 11:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but we're not supposed to say that. NDA and all, you know.-- 11:53, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Quick... delete the post before the horde of people reading this start spamming you with "tell me, tell me, tell me!!" It's taking all of my self-control to avoid doing that myself, you know. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 12:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no.-- 12:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Since the son in Outland mentioned by Fairbanks was never found (or revealed), it appears the story has been retconned yet again.-- 14:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it's not. Even if the NDA was lifted, it's still not known for sure yet. -- 20:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Could be Fairbanks was wrong. Could be the questline sends you to outland to find the son. Could be the son leaves outland and goes to northrend.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 15:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Just out of curiousity, are we ever told who Tirion Fordring's father is? I cannot recall.


 * Also, who's to say David Wayne or some other likely character won't turn up in Northrend? ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 14:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Or the questline will go everywhere.-- 18:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Is Tirion Fordring's father famous? If he is not famous, then I guess we will not be told about his father. I know Tirion is famous and his descendants.   Rolandius (talk) 09:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the page needs updating, this is beyond me really, but Mograine's second son is discovered as the leader of the Death Knights in WotLK (unless he's a third son?). http://deathknight.info/forum/index.php?topic=1588.0 contains a full run through of the final Death Knight quest line with screenshots, showing Highlord Darion Mograine. Exactly what Outlands has to do with all this, I'm utterly clueless... (Aerandul (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC))


 * Edited the page with a little more info regarding the link between this page and Darion Mograine's. Afraid as a bit of an editing newbie couldn't figure out the spoiler tag {{(spoiler)}] was what I expected, unless it's been removed. Feel free to clean it up if anyone deems it necessary. Aerandul (talk) 17:05, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks like Blizzard changed their minds again on how to get Ashbringer into the game. I think the lines about Mograine's second son being in Outland will be retconned once WoTLK is out.  (Omega2010 (talk) 09:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC))


 * That second son is a sneaky one.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 09:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The spoiler tag has indeed been removed.-- 11:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)