Talk:Darnassian

Question
In the game 'World of Warcraft' you can speak in Darnassian language and it will appear translated (or rather untranslated) to Night Elves, but to members of other races it will appear as 'Darnassian'.

My question is simple: is the translation algorithm, if any, an actual dictionary translation (ie a poor word-for-word translator) or a general gibberish translator that puts in a jumble of Elvish looking banter?


 * I believe it is a general gibberish translator. It doesn't do word->word coversions, but rather letter phenome conversions.  People can reverse engine it to produce certain letters.  I.e.  if you were a human an orc could type a certain thing so that you would see l o l, but it is hard to do.  Here is some info about it,   --Ralthor 02:13, 6 April 2006 (EDT)


 * See Project Azeroth -> Language Annex -> Darnarssian (no really the name is misspelled, but prob not on purpose). This is basically the Night Elf version of the above link Project Azeroth -> Language Annex -> Orcish. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 4:15 PM PST 9 Apr 2008

Word list
I present to thee, a word list with more words translated. Not everything (read: nothing) here is absolutely sure, so I want input!

--BioTronic 16:21, 25 October 2006 (EDT)


 * "Shan'do" and "Thero'shan" can be confirmed, through Blizzard's website, as "honored teacher" and "honored student", respectively. You could deduce that "shan" translates to "honored", "do" to "teacher" and "thero" to "student". Backintheussr 07:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I dissagree with the Shan'do Thero'shan speculation, it makes more sense to me that "shan" would be a verb like "learn" or "teach", and that "thero" and "do" are a prefix/suffix that would be like a "er" or "ed" suffix in english. So shan'do would mean teach-er and thero'shan would mean teach-ed, or student. I think the "honored" is probably just a respect thing thats implied, but not literally part of the word. If we went with that, then "thero" and "do" could be used with other verbs too, like "adore" means "watch(es)/with you", so adore'do would mean watcher, and thero'adore would mean watched. Just my oppinion. Sigmond 14:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Point of note, "teached" isn't a proper word, "taught" is, for past tense.Baggins 14:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

And if it were a proper word, it wouldnt have a hyphen in it. I wasn't trying to represent a past tense form of "teach," i was trying to show how teach, in conjunction with a suffix of "ed," meaning something like "done unto," would be someone who had recieved teaching, aka a student. Sigmond 22:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Question: Is "sunstrider" really a Darnassian word? Sounds like English or "Common" to me -- especially when translated as "he who walks the day." Do we reeeeally need to include this word? Has it really been "officially sanctioned by Blizzard" as an official word in the Darnassian language? Dr blackberry (talk) 21:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Apostrophe/dash standards
Currently, most of the Darnassian cited uses apostrophes (', as in Quel'dorei), while the Darnassian primer (which I feel should be extended) mostly uses dashes (-, as in Ishnu-alah). While I tend towards using apostrophes, and feel we should keep data as coherent as possible, there may be reasons to keep the dashes where those are used (because that's the way it was written, for instance). So, apostrophes, dashes, or both? --BioTronic 16:27, 25 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I recall more dashes in WC3, but some of them do use aposrophes. It's guesswork when we don't see them written.--Ragestorm 22:03, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Sandbox
The Darnassian sandbox is coming along nicely, and we think it's be time to ask people what they think of it. Anything we should add? Anything we should remove? Change? Should we replace this page with that of the sandbox?
 * Changed it. *That* should make people react. :P --BioTronic 08:20, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Just a note. The Sandbox doesn't exist any more, but has been replaced by the Darnassian_Language_Society. The project has kind of died, but if anyone was to rekindle it, they'd be more than welcome to. And I'd be glad to jump back in. --Oponyxal 16:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't like it personally, the old "Darnassian Primer" section that listed only things that were 100% confirmed in various sources. It was never meant to include things that we can only speculate about.Baggins 11:30, 26 November 2006 (EST)

Thalassian from WC3
In warcraft 3, Sylvanas Windrunner is heard saying these two phrases:

"Anar'alah belore" and "Shindu falah nah"   Just adding these to the discussion if someone thinks they would be good for the article.


 * Those are Thalassian, and should be added to that article. "Anar'alah belore" means "by the light of the sun" and "Shinu fallah na" means "they're breaking through" --Ragestorm 10:02, 18 November 2006 (EST)


 * Perhaps not relevant, but the word "Anar" means "(the) Sun" in Tolkien's Elvish language, Quenya -- Tarus 22:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

About the name
Does anyone else find it odd that the language seems to be named after Darnassus, a city which only came into existance when the new world tree was created? Bragus 15:30, 11 December 2006 (EST)


 * Odd. There used to be notes about that on both this page and the Darnassus page. Basically, we discovered three possibilities: 1) the language was always called Darnassian, and the city was named for the language; 2) there was no name for the language prior to the foundation of the city, and so they bore the same, or 3) "darnass" has a translation we have not yet determined. --Ragestorm 16:52, 11 December 2006 (EST)

I was looking up a quest and come across the answer, it was. Umber said, "It was a journal written in a very ancient dialect of what we now call the Darnassian tongue." So it wasn't always called Darnassian, it was only recently given the name. However, I wouldn't doubt it has something to do with what "Darnass" means. Possibly both were named after something relating to the Night Elves rebuilt culture? And yeah, I realized I posted this three years after the last post. But here it is. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 13:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it would be more prudent if we think of 'speaking Darnassian' as similar to the phrase 'speaking American', when in fact the latter means 'speaking English' (albeit in a funny way ;P!). I do, of course, support this with evidence. To be precise, the (extreme) similarity between the Thalassian and Darnassian tongues (the tongues of the Sin'Dorei and the Kal'Dorei). This alone is enough to show that the languages have been 'Americanised' - for want of a better word - from the original base language, which I don't know what is. But I think this should be considered as a reasonable explanation for the name of the language Darnassian. Code2004 (talk) 16:50, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Extreme similarities would be going a bit far. Darnassian (for the kaldorei, not Kal'Dorei) and Thalassian (for the sin'dorei - no capital letters required) do have known differences that go beyond those of American English and British (proper) English, such as Darnassian Kal - and Thalassian Dal, both meaning "star", or the more mysterious "Belore", which in Thalassian means "the sun", while in Darnassian is used in the term Fandu-dath-belore?" - "Who goes there?" "An ancient dialect of what we now call Darnassian" might mean that the language dot the name recently, or about some more than ten thousand years ago, when we can assume the language reached the form we know it as today (seeing that several people who lived then still live and talk today). -- 17:25, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, fair dues, perhaps not EXTREME similarities. But there are many of them between both languages. To be frank, I have only started reading up on the linguistics, and I'm extremely interested. Also, the more mysterious "Belore", as you put it, still might hold some sort of similarity between the Kaldorei and Sin'dorei versions of the word. I mean, in alot of languages today, many expressions are used which could beg explanation in the English translation... Saying that, I can't think of any off the top of my head eheh. Code2004 (talk) 17:39, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cont'd from above: upon further reading I have discovered that the term "Belore" is considered by some to be an abstract of 'sun' that it might be used to express travelling (in the way that stare is to essere in Italian) based on the idea that the sun may have been considered as, and I quote, a "chariot of fire in the heavens". I would like to add though, your devotion to this subject has been amazing (I have read several of your posts) and insightful! Thanks Oponyxal ;)! :D Code2004 (talk) 22:27, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed speculation
Why are there phrases and words both in the 'confirmed' section and the 'speculation' section? They have to be one or the other, right? --Varghedin 14:11, 29 December 2006 (CET)


 * You might notice who ever made that table also goes into speculation of "direct meanings" in the third section of the table. That section certainly doesn't belong on the primer section.Baggins 03:11, 13 January 2007 (EST)

Darnassae
Can you provide the source that states that the native name for the Darnassian language is "Darnassae"? PRH 22:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are right to add a fact check to that bit, I can't find anything on it.Baggins 07:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybess Riverbreeze, to Alliance characters: "Taurahe?" (she only gives quests to Horde characters). Conversely, Arathandris Silversky to Horde characters: "Darnassae?" (she only gives quests to Alliance characters). -- 19:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * When i talk to my guildmates in darnassian, it says [Darnassian]. Edanor 02:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not disputing the use of 'Darnassian' as the official name for the language. It is however, the 'Common' name for the language, just like I'm certain 'Dwarven' and 'Orcish' is. 'Darnassae' is simply the Darnassian name for the night elven language, if Arathandris is to be understood correctly. -- 16:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Related languages?
Is there any hint of Taurahe being related to Darnassian anywhere? It's always seemed to me that Cairne's greeting Ish-ne-alo-por-ah (ref. intro. Where Wyverns Dare, WCIII) and Tyrande's equivalent Ishnu-alah (ref. Daughters of the Moon, WCIII) sound an awful lot like they're cognate. Has anyone else noticed this? If there are any other examples of Darnassian/Taurahe crossover, might it be worth mentioning in the article? Irandrura (talk) 14:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well they have been stuck together on the same continent for ten thousand years, so it's only natural if one has borrowed words from the other. Jormungand01 (talk) 15:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions
This suggestion is for people who are night elves. Why don't you just call up a friend and tell them to meet you someplace? Once there, type in different words in Darnassian and have them write down what you said. Cyan Rain 17:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The in-game language parser does not use true Warcraft linguistics, it merely selects a word with an identical number of letters as the original words from a parser list. It can't be used to pursue proper translations of words. -- 16:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Kaldorei translating...
I was doing a bit of thinking, Kaldorei means "Children of the Stars" but somehow came out as Night Elves to all the other races other than these elves. Could Kal be Darnassian for both "Stars" and "Night"? And could elf mean 'child of'? And I also noticed how Kalimdor was the same in both Darnassian and Titan. Which titan would it be, Aesir or Vanir? And that being said, would Darnassian be a dialect branched from the Aesir version? Since Dwarven most likely originated from the Titan languages, it would also be most likely from Vanir since those are the more earth based titans; and so would Darnassian be Aesir? Given the Night Elves attunement to the original Well of Eternity, which reached out into the infinite, being more the aerial qualities of Aesir. Just throwing an idea around for discussion, not expecting any quick answer, open to all ideas. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 11:17, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Much probably, Kal is the Darnassian for Star, this is sure, but I don't think it means Night too, I think Night Elves are the name given them by the other races, much like Tauren/Shu'halo. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 12:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Keepers
Since means Stave of the Ancient Keepers and  means Longbow of the Ancient Keepers, the word 'delar should be translated as Ancient Keepers with Lok meaning stave and Rhok meaning longbow? Additionally there is a Alliance-only bow called that spawns in the Argent Coliseum that has the prefix Rhok in its name. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 16:28, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Where does it say that Stave of the Ancient Keepers is the translation of Lok'delar? Same with Rhok'delar? Why isn't it just part of the name? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:36, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think most people assume that they are the same (the Elvish name and the subtitle) because they are pretty much identical already in translation. But you have a point; it could be 'Rod of the Ancient Keepers', or even something less related, such as 'Protector of the Ancient Keepers'. Or something else that sounds cheesy D: . Code2004 (talk) 22:31, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

As you wish Shalla T Zeratul........ --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 17:25, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I cant say for sure but i would have thought the elf language from root would bee keldorei rather than darnasian and darnasian in game is just easier to remember —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.