Talk:C'Thun/Archive01

Forgotten One
C'thun looks identical to the Forgotten One Arthas and Anub'arak fought beneath Azjol'Nerub in Warcraft III:TFT. Anyone have a problem adding this in?
 * whoops - noticed Forgotten One does reference C'Thun, so I'll make sure they link back.

Cthulhu

 * The name C'thun bears a resemblance to Cthulhu of H.P. Lovecraft's novels of the Cthulhu Mythos. Another striking resemblance exists between the name C'thun and the C'tan from the Warhammer 40K universe. It is likely that the words C'thun, Cthulhu and C'tan are all derived from the Greek word Chthonios (Xθωνιος), which means earth (specifically the interior of the earth, rather than the surface). Although there was no specific god named Chthon in Greek mythology, there were numerous Cthonic cults during the classical era. The word Chthonic (sometimes spelt Cthonic) itself is still used to refer to the underworld (being an underground realm, as opposed to Hell or Hades). It seems possible that Blizzard, Lovecraft and Games Workshop adapted the word for their own uses.

Is it not more likely that both C'tan and C'thun are imitating the more famous Lovecraft C'thulhu since not only does the word bear resemblance but also the nomer and appearance (note the tentacles and the title "Old Ones" given to the lovecraftian gods of his type.) It's also curious to note Lovecraft's suggested to pronounciation of C'thulhu : Khlul'-hloo" (IPA: [ˈʀlʊlχlu]) which bears little to no resemblance to the term above. Also to note is that in Lovecraft's mythology Cthulhu sleeps below the ocean and rises on an island periodically.

I'm proposing changing the above paragraph to represent this. --Fizzleboom 14:17, 28 May 2006 (EST)

I'm interesting a bout the relationship between c'thun and the fotgotten one
 * They look the same :) --Potbasher 07:39, 26 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I've reverted the claim that Cthulu is of Sumerian origin, since I have been unable to find any support for it, and one site which specifically discounts the idea. Also, please try to keep in mind while making edits that they immediately go live to the viewable article, so when replacing a fact percieved to be incorrect, there is no reason to keep the old version and say it was wrong. --Aeleas 18:57, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

The sumerian god your referring to is Kutulu, Tiamat's son and lover. Yuck. Lots of people have speculated about Cthulhu and Kutulu especially given Lovecraft's mania for arabian lore but there's no real evidence he had any knowledge of the old summerian stories so its just speculation --Darkling235 10:41, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

I think the inspiration section needs a bit of work since with the various edits and revisions it doesn't flow too well. For example "It is likely that the words C'Thun, Cthulhu, Cthonia, and C'Tan..." is an example of this, the first appearance of Cthonia and C'Tan is in this sentence but no additional information is provided about Cthonia and C'Tan, not to mention no attempt is made to explicitly link it back to the to the topic of what inspired C'Thun. Cure (talk) 17:44, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Weak C'Thun
Can anyone refer to a refernce that C'Thun was weaker than he should be? It doesn't really seem to make sense that Kel'thuzad could be stronger than him unless he was "new born" in our world or something. Most of the adjectives used to describe him refer to him "waking" or "taking shape" and Rajaxx's comments about him not being "completed" yet but has anyone heard anything explicit to that effect? --Darkling235 11:36, 27 April 2006 (EDT)
 * I'd say he's as "complete" as he can be, and yet still in a weakened state, as though the Titan that defeated him injured him to the point that he could never fully recover. So he's basicly recovered as much as he's capable of recovering, and as such is "complete." --Adonzo 20:47, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

Maybe C'thun and the forgotten one were once one and the same? Who knows after all they look the same, maybe C'thun was once two beings, and they got split in the battle with the Titans. Then again, C'thun may just have been weakened to the point it's impossible to be classified as god, because 40 players beating the hell out of a god is unlikley. --Going2hell 06:34, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

As I read on the forums not long ago, we may have just honestly fought one of his parts. His eye and stomach. Maybe he and Yogg-Saron are the same being of one concious mind but split into multiple sections. Maybe they're like worms, cut one section off and another full worm will grow in place. Only sharing one mind. -ibage

Ability Changes (History)
April 19, 2006: 12:10 AM (est):


 * Lowered the hit points of both Giant Claw Tentacles and Giant Eye Tentacles.
 * Decreased the damage caused by Ground Rupture, and made the effect resistable.
 * Significantly decreased the melee damage done by Giant Eye Tentacles.

In the 1.10.1 patch, we also changed the way that C’thun identifies who is in his stomach. The faction changing debuff that was previously applied will no longer appear, but C’thun’s tentacles should not spawn in the stomach, nor should a player in the stomach be the target of C’thun’s Eye Beam.

The combination of these changes should give players more time to damage C'thun instead of dealing with tentacles, and see fewer “unavoidable, random” deaths occur due to Ground Rupture effects." -Drysc (Raids and Dungeons Forum) Source

April 25, 2006 11:13 AM (est):


 * We fixed a bug which was causing the Giant Eye Tentacles to still spawn during C'Thun's weakened state in the second phase of the encounter. It's not intended for anything to be spawning during his weakened state. Please note, however, that if there are already spawns up during the weakened state, they will not despawn. This fix merely prevents *new* tentacles from spawning during that state.

-Tigole (Raid and Dungeons Forum) Source
 * Also, the duration between alternating tentacle spawns has been slightly increased.

Entering the room.. I'm removing the bit about not casting spells as you go in since the Eye Beam victim seems to be random, not controlled by aggro. As far as I know, the Eye Beam is completely random. Sending in the MT first just makes sure it's the first one the Eye sees, hence he takes the first Eye Beam.
 * I disagree on this. Eye Beam is random on the people who gets into C'Thun aggro list. You have up to 10-15 seconds before dismounting, which is the point where you get into combat, that is, in C'Thun's aggro list. Note that it can take up to 15 secs to take positions in the room. That is the reason the MT must run close to C'Thun and to the north attracting C'Thun attention. I suspect that getting close to C'Thun aggroes him, and casting a healing/buff spell can steal aggro from MT, dooming you and all people around. So I still believe "no casting until raid is positioned" is a good tip. Jano 07:55, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

Hmm, but C'thun doesn't seem to have an aggro counter, he just fires the Eye Beam all over the place on random people.
 * My fault, with "aggro list" and "stealing aggro" i wanted to mean "getting in combat mode". C'Thun seems to hit several times the MT while the raid already entered the room. Meanwhile, other people dont get in combat mode until later. I suspect that if you buff, somehow you get out of your 15 sec grace time for taking positions. Tbh im not sure about the mechanics, but the moment we used the rule of not buffing, we stopped having people hit before dismounting. If anyone can confirm by actually buffing while entering, please do and post the result. Jano 08:58, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

Aaah, okay, that could make sense. Durbathuluk

not sure if distract shot ever worked in phase 1 eye tentacles, but it definatly does not stop the flay now. Removed it from the article. The eye tentacles are also immune to Conc & Scatter --Quadir 20:03, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

I am certain that the Eye Tentacles in phase 1 are immune to Deathcoil as well (I think this has something to do with the change Blizzard made to Deathcoil, about Undead not getting feared by Deathcoil any more). Chakotay 01:23, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

foliage
This some random crap comment from a player or something from an official source? :S-- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 05:45, 7 January 2007 (EST)

Backstab?
Ive never fought this guy myself only seen some pictures of hi so i was wondering, how do rogues backstab this guy? he seems to be round and people says he looks like "The Forgotten One" from wc3xp and if thats the case hes round as an apple. -Rovdyr

Quotes
Does this guy have any quotes? Hordesupporter 20:28, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * He does, dunno what they are though. I recall one being something like "Your friends will.. abandon you." :p -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 20:31, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Here we go..
 * "Death is close"
 * "You are already dead"
 * "Your courage will fail"
 * "Your friends will abandon you"
 * "You will betray your friends"
 * "You will die"
 * "You are weak"
 * "Your heart will explode"
 * -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 20:37, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Nice... can you tell me when he says certain quotes? I assume he says "Death is close" once he engages you, and says "You are weak" when he kills someone, but the others I don't know. Hordesupporter 00:24, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * I'm afraid i don't know, your guess is as good 9well probably better in this case) as mine : / -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 09:08, 27 January 2007 (EST)

I'm gonna provide a breif analysis of these quotes.


 * "Death is Close" I assume what C'thun is saying here is that his victory is inevitible.
 * "You are already dead" I believe C'thun is more or less, saying that he's so powerful he's practically already won, and that he WILL kill the players.
 * "Your courage will fail" C'thun is saying he is so terrifying that the players will lose their will-power to continue fighting him and attempt to flee.
 * "Your friends will abandon you" Bacically the same as the last quote, except he is telling the player that his guild mates are going to value their lives more then yours.
 * "You will betray your friends" Another similar Quote! REJOICE! *Ahem* C'thun is telling the player he would attempt to flee and leave his/her allies to die.
 * "You will die" Simple, straight to the point, blunt, and easy to remember.
 * "You are weak" C'thun is comparing his level of strength to the raid, and apperantly is NOT impressed.
 * "Your heart will explode" Um... don't got anything for this, unless it's some kind of torture C'thun uses on those who angre/displease him. Hordesupporter 13:59, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * None of those are said in response to combat events; eyes and stomachs don't really talk. They're more of a... err... telepathic message heard throughout the zone at random intervals. Starlightblunder 20:29, 28 January 2007 (EST)


 * low volumne speech while you are anywhere in the zone, to, er. frighten you, nothing in combat. 02:49, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Quotes heard randomly? You mean like what Magtheridon does in BF? Hordesupporter 02:04, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

I know this is a bit late, but "Your heart will explode" could refer to the fact that it's believed that if a mortal were to see something that they cannot comprehend at all that their minds will cave in and their hearts will explode. So C'thun could be conceited and believe its magnificent form is too much for us to handle, let alone its power and wrath. Just a thought. -- Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Pronounce name and full name?
According to Blizzard the phonetic spelling of this Old God's name is "Kathune". You can find this by having a look at the actual model files from the game, as each of C'thuns model segments are named "Bodyofkathune", "Eyeofkathune", "Clawofkathune", and so on. --


 * I just pronounce it Sea-thun lol.... Anyway, some people say it's real name is: Ca'se-e'Twooun'e .... what the? --Colinstu 00:10, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * It's supposidly proncouned Ka-thune. But i'll happily stick to c-thun, i don't enjoy adopting other language words into english without translation into the english languag and pronounciation. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 00:17, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * I say kuh-THOON. -- 05:05, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * I say kuh-THOON too; Lovecraft's beastie names weren't any human language, and not intended to be pronounced by them. C'thun isn't from his works, but is similar to it...
 * "According to H. P. Lovecraft: (re C'thulhu's name -- Azaram)
 * "The actual sound - as nearly as human organs could imitate it or human letters record it - may be taken as something like Khlul'-hloo, with the first syllable pronounced gutturally and very thickly."


 * "The best approximation one can make is to grunt, bark, or cough the imperfectly formed syllables Cluh-Luh with the tip of the tongue firmly affixed to the roof of the mouth. That is, if one is a human being. Directions for other entities are naturally different."
 * (Quote above from http://cthulhu.org/cthulhu)


 * That kind of indicates the pronunication might be Khlul'-oon or Cluh-Oon...just to toss another spoon in the pot. :D --Azaram 00:29, 26 February 2007 (EST)


 * I've always pronounced it as K'Thun, with the "thun" sounding as in thunder or Attila the Hun :D. And the K sound because of Cthulhu--Bonez0r (talk) 13:12, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * I pronounce it like kuh-thoon. I've never understood why people aren't sure how to pronounce his name... I've always been sure on kuh-thoon. -- [[Image:IconSmall_BloodElf_Male2.gif‎]][[Image:IconSmall Rogue.gif]] Sebreth (talk) 13:36, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * I pronounced it sea-thun as in "thun"der also, until I read this article. --Tyriar (talk) 23:30, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Gender
This page mentions that is gender is "not applicabble", in that case, why does this page always refer to him as a male? Hordesupporter 18:07, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Blame the english language. He is a better suited pronoun for C'thun than It. --Raze 04:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

His voice is masculine too.04:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

He telepathically talks to you. Thats only the voice the mortal comprehends. - ibage


 * The Warcraft encyclopedia refers to C'Thun as "it"-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

or are they?
in my opinion C'Thun was split during the Sundering, half going to Northrend and the other half staying in Kalimdor. This would explain both forms weakness.

Isn't that more of speculation? ;) However... Copyx 04:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I mostly agree with you. But I think that C'thun split into three different parts after the battle with the titan. Think about it: One old god is at least as powerful as a titan, and probably slightly more powerful. C'thun killed a titan and survived, and near the end of the War of the Ancients trilogy, it says that the only reason the old gods were defeated was because all the titans teamed up on them, and that the three old gods that were about to get free could easily defeat that one titan, Sargeras. The point I am trying to make with this is, even if a being as powerful as an old god was split in half, one of his halves would still be able to defeat 40 well-geared heroes, even at level 70. Sargeras himself is able to wipe away large armies with very little effort. So my complete theory is: after the battle with the titan, C'thun split into three parts, his main part being the killable C'thun in the temple of Ahn'qiraj, one going to northrend as the forgotten one, and the last part becoming the Ancient and powerful evil. However, I am also theorizing on the idea that, since Anub'arak referred to their big encounter in the ruins of Azjol-Nerub as "A forgotten one", the part of C'thun that went to Northrend split into multiple shards of itself. After all, the forgotten one was defeated by just two mid-level heroes, those being Arthas and Anub'arak, and a band of ordinary undead troops. Or maybe the forgotten one was just an underling, or an avatar of the Northrend piece of c'thun. Anyway, I think that was happened is somewhere along those lines. Any thoughts? --Mesethusela 01:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I thought the same thing too. Considering it took all the titans to just chain them up, I can't fathom why they aren't made into a larger part of the story. They have caused 9/10 of the problems and dangers to Azeroth including the legion's attention. An old god at full power would easily eat Sargeras, and crap him out as a weakened form of Kael to put it crudely. But, ya, I thought the same thing too. With them being so powerful, no way did we kill C'thun. - ibage

Change in Giant Claw Tentacles
Changed "meaning they will one-shot anyone who isn't a tank" to " meaning they will one-shot anyone who doesn't have a very high armor rating." Paladins that are healing/DPSing or Druids in Moonkin Form will have about the same amount of armor as a Warrior, Paladin, or Druid that is tanking, so they are just as likely to survive the Thrash ability as a tank. Felindre

Master's Glaive
"One was killed, and its remains can be seen at the Master's Glaive in Darkshore, Kalimdor with an immense sword piercing its skull." --> Isn't this only hinted at, but not canonical? Would it be reasonable to alter this to show ambiguity, or has this been confirmed? WarnzNoth

How can C'thun be "Deceased" in lore?
The way I see it, what appears in Ahn'Qiraj is merely an avatar, or extended part of C'thun. And even then, wasn't it stated that although the Old Gods were weakened, their power is still way beyond mortal comprehension? So if we can't comprehend its power, how could we have enough power ourselves to actually kill it? And Ragnaros was said to have only appeared in the Molten Core as an avatar of himself as well, and his power in game would be very similar to C'thun's in magnitude. So if we didn't actually kill Ragnaros, how could we have killed such a powerful entity as C'thun? And if we did kill C'thun, wouldn't the entire world feel some massive ripple effect because the Old Gods are symbiotically connected to it? I mean, that's why the Titans imprisoned the Old Gods instead of finishing them off. What really seems odd to me is that Blizz hasn't made the Old Gods Eternals like they have with Sargeras and Cenarius, and both of them are no match for one God. -- Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 01:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You can't say that he isn't dead just because you think we can't kill him. And, in this case, it's because the narration in an issue of the comic explicitly says he's dead. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:59, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not that I "think we can't kill him", it's been stated before, several ways, that he cannot be. An Old God being killed would weaken the world. After the AQ event, no such thing has happened. Another reason is that mortals cannot fathom the power of a weakened Old God. No way to match power when we can't even measure it, let alone overpower it. And if it was stated dead in the comic, it could just mean that the avatar we faced died instead of the entire being. I'm not saying we should claim it is still alive, but we should not say that it's dead. I'd say it should be Unknown. Same with Yogg-Saron. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 09:35, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A lore source claims C'Thun is dead, what the hell do you want?
 * And Yogg-Saron is said "Killable" because no source talks about his "death".
 * 09:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm remaining speculative since there seems to be some lore conflict. One thing says something, but another says otherwise. You can't just ignore one thing for another unless it has been stated it's wrong. What I want is some clear answers that says that C'thun's entire being is destroyed and somehow it had no effect on the world. Or I want to hear that it is, in fact, just a fragment of his weakened self that was sent back. Neither has been said. Only a brief statement that he's dead. Not if he is gone altogether. Why is it so hard to question this when there are facts that seem out of place? Am I the only one who wants to make sure this is COMPLETELY definite? Ragnaros was supposedly killed back during vanilla WoW. Guess what? He's coming back. The same can happen with C'thun. WoWWiki stated Ragnaros was dead before Cataclysm was announced. What if some future expansion says otherwise about C'thuns' apparent deceased condition? Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 09:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * From what I know, Ragnaros was never killed, I was sent back to his jail.
 * C'Thun is dead, that's all, only dead. And his followers are trying to resurect him, but meanwhile he is dead.
 * 09:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Why not put a section questioning his death, then? He's said to be dead, but he's been said to be unable to be killed by mortals. Titans haven't been back on Azeroth in about a few eons. They couldn't've done it. Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 10:01, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you do a section for that just remember to cite everything. But the infobox should remain as it is because it has been establisherd by an official source. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 16:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The Eye of C'thun
Did anyone notice how the eye resembles the Eye of Sauron? BobNamataki (talk) 13:41, September 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * By All Hells, please read the articles before writting on the talk pages: C'Thun: Inspiration.
 * 13:43, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Dead?
So is he actually dead? I mean, I watched him fall and looted his corpse, but, he died before and was rezzed by Cho'Gall, I believe. Should we expect to ever see more of him? Furthermore, I don't even think we fought all of him, it only looked like his head was coming out of a giant pit, with tons of tentacles joining a submerged central body. Skulkerart (talk) 18:50, January 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well the comic says: "The Old God C'Thun, who once lay beneath the ancient ruins, is dead...", but i think that only means his physical body... cause later (a chapter or 2) Cho'gall tosses Med'an over to C'thun's body, and Med'an starts to hear the whispers of the Old God. Aedror42 (talk) 23:02, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Death doesn't quite seem to mean the same thing for Old Gods as it does for mortals. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:04, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Shadowmoon Valley
Did anyone else notice that, in Shadowmoon Valley, just southeast of Wildhammer Stronghold, there is a felfire pit with an electrical, holographic image of C'Thun in it? It kind of scares me a bit... I haven't done any quests in there yet, so tell me if there is any quest involving him. Pepperyena 22:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Summoned Old God. The quest chain does not have much of an ending.-- 03:39, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Succession
Where is it told that C'Thun is succeded by The Twin Emperors and then he is the ruler again? If it doesn't have a source, I'll remove it. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 16:19, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd cut the Twin Emps out altogether and have it go straight from C'Thun to Cho'Gall; it doesn't make any sense otherwise. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:48, March 23, 2010 (UTC)