Talk:Maiev Shadowsong

Untitled

 * Lore discussion moved to Talk:Maiev Shadowsong/Lore - the discussion page is supposed to be for discussing edits to the article itself

Fanart
Why so much fanart of her? I removed the first one, it's so disgraceful as her toe-nails are so long and colored and ugly, it's very disrespectful, she's my biggest idol in the Warcraft lore, she's the true justice and the hottest out there in the lore. Shandris 05:25, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

There isn't much imagery avaliable that isn't fanart. It might be best if we moved the one of her from Warcraft III to the top, as that's the closest we have to an original. --Ragestorm 06:09, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Blizzard made a pic of her (or the Warden, doesn't really matter) Shandris 10:37, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

The Warden's Cage
In shadowmoon, there is a sub-region called "The warden's cage". Can anyone confirm the tantilizing rumors that Maiev is still alive and imprisoned? Theschief


 * You'd know as well as anyone else right now.--Ragestorm 21:35, 16 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Wonder who that could be... -- Maenos 28:35, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Maiev5.jpg

As Bookkeeper for Night Elf Lore, I'm confirming Maiev's imprisonment everywhere except the infobox- though it's unlikely something like this will be changed between now and the release, better to err on the side of caution.--Ragestorm 20:10, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * While it looks more and more like Illidan is no longer the individual whom I once thought rocked (I call this "getting the Sylvanas treatment"), I am loving this. Illidan hasn't killed Maiev and from what I've read here he has not tortured her either; he has done to her exactly what was done to him, albeit thus far it's only been for four years instead of ten thousand. If the cage had walls, she'd be climbing them by now. I hope we don't have to rescue her or anything--if we do, then I hope Illidan will also be saved and redeemed like other characters in Warcraft lore, e.g. Grom Hellscream, Highlord Mograine, Celebras and Eranikus to name a few.--Illidan Rocks 03:06, 27 December 2006 (EST)

I doubt Maiev never will be set free. She guarded Illidan for 10 000 years. He was released by Malfurion in Dalaran when they got him, to Maiev's fury. Illidan was also rescued by the Blood Elves and Naga after Maiev had finally caught him. This also resulted in Maiev having to meet the same fate as Illidan had a long time ago, imprisonment. I would be amazed if Maiev hasn't gone completely mad by know, probably having been turned into vengeance itself. For everyones safety, I believe it's best she stays either dead or behind bars. Also Akama, Maiev's warden, is neutral to both Horde and Alliance, so it would make no sense in releasing her.--Odolwa 13:54, 27 December 2006 (EST)


 * Well, there are certain visions that show Maiev will be released, but it is definetly not an action taken by the player.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:18, 27 December 2006 (EST)


 * Hmmm, wonder if she might become a boss somewhere down the road? Anyway, speaking of Akama, that's one of the reasons I'm beginning to doubt Illidan. Akama joined him originally because Illidan's forces saved his people, after all, and if Illidan were a benevolent ruler then Akama would not have reconsidered his allegiance. At first I thought the circumstances that brought us into conflict with Illidan would be similar to the issues that pit Alliance against Horde, and that he had to be defeated because he stood in the way of us opening the portals to get to the Legion, but more and more I get the feeling that we'll be asked to take him down because he's really become a threat to decent people.  Again. *sigh* --Illidan Rocks 01:05, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Last I checked, someone being evil is never any reason for not liking someone. Look at American culture, and why my sister used to go out with a b@$t@&d. So, your username is safe enough. As for Akama, Illidan is a half-demon of dubious mental competency. Akama may have been Broken, but he is still draenei- he is simply retaining his pre-Illidan loyalties.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:19, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I think she will be released to aid you in your fight against Illidan --LemonBaby 18:41, 28 December 2006


 * That's it! The players get in Illidan's way while he's trying to kill Maiev!--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:29, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * The thought occurs - perhaps the 'win' situation is that he's recaptured? -- Kirkburn  (talk) 17:41, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * See Talk:Illidan Stormrage for my suggestion.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:53, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Quote: Odolwa: "I would be amazed if Maiev hasn't gone completely mad by know, probably having been turned into vengeance itself. For everyones safety, I believe it's best she stays either dead or behind bars."


 * Well said, but there's one thing that arouses my curiosity: why are her eyes green? isn't that the sign of demonic influence? And why is her hair white? It was black in tft, and that is her hair, she's shaved under the helmet as far as i remember, according to Samwise's illustration. Is it just a changed character design that i'm taking too literally, or did A) Illidan and minions do something terrible to her, or B) she go absolutely insane (far more likely), and her hair turn white as a result? She wouldn't be the first of Metzen's characters to do so. Look at Arthas. Prime example. And, far more obscurely, there's a paragraph in the "Testament of Ord Rekar", the introduction to the Diablo 2 "lord of Destruction" expansion that has a woman losing her mind and getting white hair from a terrible vision of Baal wreaking havoc on Sanctuary. While it's true that this idea might be nitpicky and ridiculous, its' also alot of fun to speculate. As much as I respect Illidan, I wouldn't put it past him to succumb to the age old desire to get his own back on the woman who kept him caged for ten thousand years.And, what better way than to ...say...feed her demon magic, or demon essence, or something, and turn her into the very thing she most despises?--Daughter of Sargeras 01:57, 22 January 2007 (EST)

High Priestess of Elune?
I don't believe Maiev was ever a priestess. Her position most likely had the word "Warden" in it somehow, but I don't know the specifics. High Warden, Head Warden, or Most Badass Warden of the Betrayer is probably more accurate. 04:51, 1 December 2006 (EST)


 * Maiev was a priestess along with Tyrande in the War of the Ancients. .  She was given the title Warden after being put in charge of Illidan. (though I will agree with you on the Most Badass part, heh) -- Maenos 05:16, 1 December 2006 (EST)


 * Yeah she was a Priestess but she was never made the High Preistess as it says at the bottom of the page, because thats why she Hates Tyrande, because she was of a higher rank than her in the order but Tyrande was made the High Priestess instead by order of the Previous one as she was dying. -- Kael-Thas 07:32, 27 July 2008 (GMT)


 * No. She was in fact high priestess temporarly when Tyrande was kidnapped. Tyrande's second was killed in battle and maiev assumed the position till Tyrande returned. 06:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually she is referred to as "all but High Priestess", meaning that she never officially took the position but was still regarded as the leader of the priestess in Tyrande's absence. Jormungand01 (talk) 20:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Alleged Death and Alliance POV
From correspondence at the Warcraft RPG forums, when asked about what was the intended POV in the RPG books and how does it relate to what was said about Maiv Shadowsong;

I asked, and this was intended to find out how Blizzard/RPG Staff view the RPG books;


 * I want to clear something up, is Warden article in Alliance Player's Guide from Brann, or some other in-universe character's POV? In that in-universe writer only assumed that Maiev had died because no body had been recovered?


 * ...or was that section intended to be from the Author's, Blizzard's, POV?


 * Also what was the intended POV for Shadows & Light? Is it an in-universe document, or was it intended to be actual authors/Blizzards pov?

His answer;


 * From: MagusRogue
 * To: Baggins
 * Posted: 02 Dec 2006 10:19
 * Subject: Re: Some questions about POV.
 * its from the Alliance PoV. Everyone assumes she's dead. It's not Third Persion Omnipresent.
 * _________________
 * Your friendly neighborhood Magus the Extreme.
 * WoW RPG Game Designer.

Baggins 13:48, 2 December 2006 (EST)


 * What's "Alliance PoV"? And why is person misspelled? --Shandris 14:00, 2 December 2006 (EST)


 * I have no idea why he mispelled person. But Alliance POV means that it was intended to be viewed as written by an Alliance historian from an in-universe POV as opposed to being a view from authors from our universe.Baggins 14:03, 2 December 2006 (EST)


 * Could you maybe also post the questions to which MagusRogue answered? Othwerwise it is not very clearly what exactly he is referring to when talking about "it".
 * Anyway, MagusRogue didn't write any of the texts in question for this issue and has only joined the team of WoW RPG writers as a freelancer not so long ago. So, what he says is just his opinion which really isn't any more valid than the opinion of anybody else. And if you look at the texts in question from an objective point of view it's rather obvious that they aren't written from an in-universe perspective. In all instances where the RPG books are written from an in-universe perspective the books are very quick to point out that very fact. With the text passages about Maiev's death there is no hint at all that the text is written from an in-universe perspective and especially with Shadows & Light the book wouldn't make any sense if it indeed was written from such a perspective. --Foogray 06:40, 3 December 2006 (EST)


 * If you're not willing to paint the whole picture, you're being completely irresponsible to post one side of the information. I've deleted the Adam Loyd thing.

I was very much willing to allow your side of the story, as long as it showed a more honest interpetation of Shadows & Light. Much of the lore in that particular book appears to be written by an unknown historian or historians on Azeroth. This implied by refrences throughout the book to the beliefs of other historians and scholars, including Khadgar. It refers to these individuals; beliefs, opinions, and rumors covering a variety of topics in the world of Azeroth. Take this up with Ragestorm, but do not remove sources or quotes of information even if you don't agree with his opinion.

However, since the topic currently does not go into discussion of POV or go into a large diatribe on inconsistencies currently, then it remains neutral and both views can be discussed here.Baggins 00:12, 8 January 2007 (EST)

"So, what he says is just his opinion which really isn't any more valid than the opinion of anybody else. "

It's not really an opinion. They either were meant to be written from an in universe perspective or they weren't. And the way I see it, it doesn't make sense for the Alliance to assume Maiev dead. She went through the portal, but they'd have no proof of her fate either way. --Austin P 00:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know why night elves wardens think she died, as it states in Alliance Player's Guide. Even Brann's night elf article goes into a bit that they believe she died. To be honest somethings Brann knows are almost "god-like" knowledge. He knew practically everything that occured in Beyond the Dark Portal although, he claims none of the heroes ever returned, nor does he know if they are alive or not. Apparently there were "rumors" that made it back from other people that returned to Azeroth later, that filled in some of the holes, and told them the stories. Strangly some of the in-game books go into these details as well.Baggins 00:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I checked, and for the record, Brann doesn't say that she died, just that she went insane. I've also noticed that Brann does know a few things it seems like he shouldn't, but I've also noticed that he isn't always right. For example, he immediately dismisses the notion that Lothar lost one-on-one to Doomhammer, and believes that the real Sargeras has never set foot on Azeroth. --Austin P 12:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya, Austin they try to make him more "human" (in the emotional sense) by allowing him to make mistakes, and not know everything. He's not supposed to be omniscient though at times it seems that way. If you read on to Horde Player's guide Brann explains further that the belief that he didn't die in a "one-on-one duel" is not necessarily his own but one belief held by many people. Its apparently also a way to incorporate the alternate versions of the story that have cropped up since Warcraft II RTS version of the story throughout the years. To make them all in-universe.


 * I went back and played The Frozen Throne and discovered that the first mission objective was to kill Maeiv and the rest of the watchers, if you don't kill her the mission doesn't progress. So that's what this informaton was original taken from. Albeit afterwords she is resurrected several times from an Altar of Elders. Still, it appears this was a retcon of Warcraft III more than the RPG.Baggins 18:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the picture
Called "Illidan and Maiev, forever adversaries". The quality just wasn't up to par with the rest of the pictures, and it seemed like a stain on the page. I'm not saying it's a bad picture, it just doesn't flow with the rest. --Blackmorsel

So what does she do?
Does Maiev have any in-game purpose besides just standing there? - Sikon 01:43, 17 January 2007 (EST)

Quotes
Whoa... where did all these quotes come from?! This probably at least half of the quotes she has said. Hordesupporter 01:25, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
 * I transcribed them from the Frozen Throne campaign =) simple as that! --  Shandris   talk / contribs  17:39, 19 March 2007 (EDT)


 * The section is for memorable quotes. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:45, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Correct, this page is for memorable quotes, pages that list quotes should list quotes that define the speakers personality, or hold deep importance in lore, as such, most of these should be taken off the page, but a few we should keep. Hordesupporter 22:34, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Fanart Replaced
As much as I love Hsin-Hao Sui's Warden artwork, it just seems like the official artwork of Maiev from the Shadows & Light RPG sourcebook would be a better choice. For prosperity, here's the original fanart: http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/fanart/ScreenShot.aspx?ImageIndex=07&Set=0 Suzaku 17:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Maiev shows up in World of Warcraft
When you fight Illidan in The Black Temple, Maiev shows up when he is at 1% and kills him.

Model changed
Maiev's model, or rather, her animations, were changed in the latest patch. Previously, she used female blood elf animations (which caused clipping problems), but now she uses unique animations which work well with the cloak. The screenshot should probably be updated with a more recent screengrab that reflects the changes, as it displays the clipping problems. Suzaku 23:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Maiev Vs. Illidan

 * Moved to Talk:Maiev Shadowsong/Analysis.

Title: Hand of Justice?
Where's this title from? —Pzychotix (talk · contr) 02:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC) Probably a nickname from some fans ....doesn't that mean it shouldn't be in the article or should be at the end like a note that says many fans call her The Hand of Justice (i heard lots of warcraft fans call her that)(Marakanis 17:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC))


 * Why is it still there then? she's the avatar of venegnce, justice have nothing to do with her in true, only on her own eyes Azahel (talk) 19:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed the title, because there is no evidence for it.--Iggey (talk) 01:27, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Fate
So what do u guys think will happen with her? i think maybe she'll help Akama to make the Black Temple back like it was before the wars or maybe she'll become insane and try to kill Akama who knows.....or even track down what remains of Illdan's forces (Marakanis 17:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Maiev's life is now pointless so she will sulk off to find a new obsession. I bet she just sits on the couch all day now eating Tigule and Foror's Strawberry Ice Cream and watching Law & Order and Animal Planet. :P -- 17:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Priestess of the Moon?
Shouldn't she be considered a Priestess of the Moon, consideing her role in War of the Ancients? --Xavius 10:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

She's been a warden longer than she was a priestess of the moon. --Austin P 23:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Voice actor?
Anyone knows the name of the actor behind her voice? At Warden's cage her voice setting is a generic Night elf female (which really destroys the whole feeling of the place). Does she get her original voice from TFT back at the Illidian encounter?


 * It sounds like her WC3-actor in the Black Temple, but I can't be sure. Her WC3 actor was definitely Debi Mae West (Meryl in MGS1 and 4). WarCraft 3 is listed on her portfolio. http://www.debimaewest.com/files/portfolio.html And Maiev is the only character who even remotely sounds like her. --Aldrius (talk) 16:33, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The voice actor of Maiev, and the narrator of the original WoW cinematic is Debi Mae West, this is how she looks:



-- 22:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Allaince Affiliation
Maiev was a night elf hero before the night elves joined the allaince. She has no connection to the modern allaince beyond being a night elf. She's independant, focused solely on vengance against Illidan. I don't see a reason why she should be listed under important allaince figures.Tweak the Whacked 01:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Green Glowing Eyes
I was just surfing through models in wowmodelviewer and i noticed that Maiev has green, glowing eyes. It's not normal for a night elf, as Kaldorei have golden or gray eyes. Green eyes can be seen on Blood elves, because of their corruption with fel magic. Is it just because she uses a BE model and Blizzard were too lazy or is it maybe some kind of an important thing?  Stöpa (talk)  15:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * She's always had glowing green eyes, I believe (as a Warden) but I think I read somewhere that her WoW model is BE, not NE. And I don't think this would be a case of laziness, there's probably a programming reason, though not really a lore one. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually she has silver eyes it is the helm she is wearing which gives her the green eyes.

Personality +shadow orb
In the personality sectionn, should we put a mention about the shadow orb in there, seeing how much of an effect it can have on one's personality? Most notably, it's effeects on driving one to madness to achieve a goal. I'm almost certain that what the shadow orb was working on was what i think was the last of her quotes in the tomb of sargeras (i haven't played that level in a while, but i think i remember it)" I will avenge you I swear it" ok, so this is info mainly for her analysis page, it is meant to back up why this belongs on this page.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 21:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's completely conjectural, I don't recall the orb being mentioned anywhere else. Furthermore, completing the orb was only an optional quest, so I doubt such a major lore point would hinge on it. Besides, given their culture, it isn't that surprising that a night elf would swear vengeance on the one who killed her closest friend. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)h


 * according to this wiki, It's mentioned in magic and mayhem that she did find it, and it was driving her to madness. That spawns a whole lot of conjecture about what was happening with her mentally. Not that i'm disregarding your point, just noting.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 07:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * when it comes to the RPG, I just smile and nod. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Status as of WotLK
Any updates to her status lore-wise since the events of Burning Crusade (much in the same way Illidan is considered deceased)? Has she died from a lack of a will to live ("huntress is nothing without the hunt") or has she simply faded into obscurity? Strength and Honour, Horderoyale (talk) 01:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing has been stated, to my knowledge. However, that might be the point: without the hunt, what use is there to mention her, even in death?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Strength and Honour, Horderoyale (talk) 01:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)