Talk:Kobolds of Elwynn Forest

Wouldn't this be the "Elwynn clan" since we know they are a clan and there isn't another term conflicting? Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 02:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * What's strange is that they aren't even called "Elwynn", but just "Kobold". I think that the title is somehow ambiguous, but I'm not sure what should be done. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh okay nevermind. I thought Elwynn was the part we knew about them. They do seem to like caves. Those kobolds trapped by spiders in the caves are called cave mine kobolds or something in the model viewer. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:15, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem with this group of kobolds is that, well, while other are called as Gogger kobolds or Drywhisker kobolds, these are called Kobold kobolds. We could name them for the name of their region, but, well, they're placed across more than one place, and, by reading the quests, we're sure them all are from the same group. So I decided to name them Elwynn, for their reference as invaders of that region, and their presence there being bigger as than Westfall's. I wouldn't name them clan because the name would be confusing. It's good as it is, in my opinion.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I named them Elwynn because the quests refer to them as invaders of Elwynn Forest.


 * Okay. So they are an unknown clan of probably Elwynn kobolds. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 09:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No, they're not Elwynn Kobolds, They're named Elwynn. Elwynn Kobold ain't nothing like a subrace or a type or whatever. We name them Elwynn Kobolds for the same reason we name naga of Coilfang as Coilfang naga.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Benitoperezgaldos put a quest that said they are a clan though. So I thought the clan was called Elwynn, but I guess it is just unknown what the name of the clan is so we put Elwynn. I thought it was being called Elwynn kobolds now. The Coilfang Naga article is wrong by the way. It should be Coilfang tribe. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 10:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Right for the Elwynn clan, but there is no source for the Coilfang naga being a tribe. Reverted.
 * 10:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I was in the middle of putting the source... Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 10:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Why don't you start with the source so we both don't move articles around for anything...
 * 10:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay. I just didn't know someone was going to see it so fast. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 10:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * A'noob, please, wait till we decide about it and don't start moving it -_-.
 * Also, the name of the faction of kobolds is Kobold. That shouldn't be deleted from the page name. I added Elwynn because naming them simply Kobold would be wrong. Their real name should be Kobold clan, but I thought Elwynn Kobolds was more understandable. If you think "Kobold clan" is too ambiguos and general, then it should be Elwynn Kobolds clan.
 * Also, it should remain with capital letters, because the "Kobold" referring to the faction is supposed to be a proper noun, like Frostwolf or Stormwind.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * PS: Rolandius, it was me the one who added the source.


 * Oh, you are right Lon-ami. Regarding the clan, I thought it was not known what the clan's name was? We know that they are kobolds, but the clan name is not actually given. It just says "a clan". I think "Elwynn kobolds" is a good compromise. I am not sure if the word would be capitalized as "Kobold" though due to the other articles where they have the part of the name that is a race in lower case like Deadwind ogres. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 11:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC


 * Yeah, but this group of Kobolds are named Kobold. Other groups are named Windshear, Gogger, Tunnel Rat... this one is named Kobold. Of course, I base this by their names. While those other clan have mobs named like Gogger Geomancer, this clan has Kobold Geomancer.
 * My bet would be to name them Elwynn Kobolds, and change it to Elwynn Kobolds clan if you want. I leave adding clan to the name in your hands.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know they are named "Kobold", but "Kobold kobolds", "Kobold clan", and "Elwynn Kobolds" do not fit with anything else we have on WoWWiki. The name of the clan is unknown so we can't use that. If this article has to be created then the closest thing I see it being called is either "Elwynn kobolds" or some variation of the words "cave mine kobolds". Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 11:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * And, wonder what. They were named like this since the beginning xDDD. Cave Mine kobolds is too ambiguous, Elwynn is more concrete. So, what, shall I redirect it to "Elwynn Kobolds" or to "Elwynn Kobolds clan"? The second one, nope? Keeping the mayus, of course, since it's a proper noun and not the generic name.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well "Elwynn" is not really its name either because you said they are found in Westfall also. As for redirecting, I am not sure if "kobold" is supposed to be capitalized in either example. I tried to get this article made awhile ago but was told I could not because they are just "Kobold kobolds" or something. I don't think any of my ideas for naming this article would help. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, anyway, the current name is wrong, so I'm reverting it to the former one until we get to a decision. Let's wait for more people to read this talk page and help reach a decision. If not, I'll open a thread in the forum, since I've a long plan of making articles for all the minor organizations, and this problem will appear again in more than one article.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Like the "Murloc murlocs"? Hopefully those articles are few in number. LOL Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

They are capitalized in Quest:Gold Dust Exchange. Maybe for all this types of article we should make something similar to the Lost Ones (faction) article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 18:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Great, that's it. Thank you, BPG . Didn't remember that one.
 * Also, wouldn't you know what to do in cases where we know the name of the faction but there's already an article with the same name? Put it like "name" "race"? Or "name" (faction), too?--Lon-ami (talk) 19:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Or, well, now that I realize it, we could name them simply "Kobold clan". The existence of other articles with the same problems would make it possible. Or, well, we could leave it simply as "Kobold (faction) since, well, Kobold clan is too generic and shouldn't be the place of an article of one of the kobold clans.--Lon-ami (talk) 19:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Or "Kobold clan (faction)"? I just don't know, give suggestions.--Lon-ami (talk) 19:20, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Or "Kobold (clan)" xDDD.--Lon-ami (talk) 19:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe "Kobold (clan)" is a good idea, but maybe we should wait more opinions. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

You are assuming both that this group of Kobolds has a name, and that it needs its own page, but my suggestion is to pick a name that looks good, and write "A clan(cite) of kobolds that live in Elwynn Forest..." in the first sentence. It works. I agree with Rolandius' "Murloc murlocs" comment, if it is at face value.-- 20:15, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know if this has a name or not but the quest capitalized it, so I thought it was a kind of organization. I liked the writting idea you put, but I don't like the idea of renaming this article "Kobold kobolds", at least it should be called "Kobold clan". Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * "Elwynn kobolds" for me. Like the former "Coilfang naga"
 * 20:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I also agree that they should be called "Elwynn Kobolds" seein how there are also kobolds in other parts of the world such as Thousand needles that are a couple thousand of miles a way i dont think they would fall into the same clan as the elwynn kobolds
 * I too agree with "Elwynn kobolds." Emphasis on the lowercase "k," because it's essentially a descriptive grouping rather than a formal faction name. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But kobolds is capitalized in the quest : "The Kobolds in these parts..." Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Is it really important here? Minor detail to me
 * 21:00, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * May be minor, but if it's capitalized then it would refer to an organization, not to the race, meaning that it should be upper case. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 22:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We can not say for certain if it is a typo of not, but it would not have to refer to an organization. Blizzard often treats race names as proper nouns. The inconsistency is odd though.-- 22:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll forget about the capitalized-thing. I have another idea, maybe "Kobolds (Elwynn)", it's the same title it has now but without a fan-name-tone nor with ambiguities. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I still don't understand the whole Lost Ones subject because as a race they should be called "lost one", yet WoWWiki has it as "Lost One". I do see the organization being spelled Lost Ones, but not the race. By the way, "Coilfang naga" does not exist. It is named "Coilfang tribe". Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 01:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Rolandius the problem is that the quests of The Burning Crusade call the race "Lost One", not "lost one", that is why it's this way on WoWWiki. The quests in the classic WoW refer to the race as "lost one", but The Burning Crusade changed this and the race is now capitalized. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:53, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, so the latest quests spell it "Lost One" it seems. What about the whole thing where we spell all races lower case though even when Blizzard spells it capitalized? Like "Blood Elf" by Blizzard and "blood elf" by WoWWiki? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Way off topic. Take it to Forum:Race capitalization.-- 02:04, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The name of this clan is Kobold. But, we can't name them like that, the clan name matches the race name.
 * We know they are a clan, so their good name is Kobold clan, but again, it's too generic, and that name refers to all the race clans.
 * Their presence is bigger on Elwynn Forest, and they are referred as invaders of this forest, so we, without any text source, add the Elwynn to the name.
 * Result: They should be named Elwynn Kobold clan, Kobold clan (faction) or Kobold clan (Elwynn Forest). If something shall be removed, it's the "Elwynn" part, since both "Kobold" and "clan" have sources.
 * Finally, Kobold is capitalized, because it's the name of the faction, the same way Stonetalon and Redpaw are capitalized.
 * I vote for Kobold clan (faction), since there's no other clan named Kobold. Also, Kobold clan should redirect to clan or kobold.
 * That's all.--Lon-ami (talk) 17:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have any evidence for the clan being named "Kobold" besides a single quest capitalizing it? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that "(faction)" should not be used because it can generate confusion, because in WoW the factions are supposed to give reputation.
 * But I support that idea just chaning it a little, to "Kobold clan (organization)". Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 18:44, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Kobold clan (organization) is great. Also, for the naming issue, they are named by the names of the mobs. Windshear Digger, for example, implies that the group is called Windshear. It's the first and, in case of kobolds, unique source of the possible name of their faction, and if we are to name it, the name should be that. With this group, their mob name is Kobold Digger. It's the same issue of the Lost One tribe and other groups. Also, quests state it, enough for me.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:29, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Small note. Clans are already categorized as organizations. So it is sort of like naming the article "Kobold ". I am not sure if "Kobold (organization)" would be a better name, but I just wanted to point this out. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 10:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Or Kobold (clan). This is just dizzying xDDD.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I saw this over on Known murloc territories and villages although it isn't an article name. "Common kobold"? :) Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 10:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think that "common kobold" is a good idea, actually anyone could have added it because he didn't knew what to put in the murloc article.
 * I support either "Kobold (clan)" or "Kobold clan (organization)", with preference to the first one. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

So what will happen to this article? I propoused "Kobold (clan)" or "Kobold clan (organization)". Should a vote be made to rename it (because I had seen many complains from each other ideas)? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I like "common kobold". I thought some people decided on "Elwynn Kobolds" though. I just want to add that we will run into more of these. For instance, there a lot of mobs named "Murloc ". Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should made a vote in the forums to decide what to do with all this kind of articles, so that we don't have to discuss every time this problem arrise. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 02:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * If enough people vote I guess. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Feel free to join the discussion at the forum: Forum:Organization naming.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Leadership
Who's to say Goldtooth is the leader? Just cause he's a named kobold doesn't automatically make him the leader.. Given Narg's title of taskmaster, I would think he's the one in charge. A lot of the creatures are given names based of descriptions, this kobold has a golden tooth, hence his name... whereas Narg has an actual name. 07:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I am not sure except that he is the only one important enough to have a quest about him. I guess I would just put (presumed) since we don't really know unless something mentions one of these guys as a leader. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 07:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * He's involved in a quest, cause he stole a necklace. It's not one of those, go kill this leader and the group will fight amongst themselves for a while quests. 07:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I put him as the leader for:
 * Has gold tooth, a sign of status.
 * He's in the back of the mine.
 * But if you don't feel ok, remove it and end the problem, but I don't think any of the others could fill the position properly.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So I guess they are leaderless for now. If they are allied with the Defias Brotherhood and their territory stretches two zones, there must be someone interacting as a liason between the two groups or something. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 01:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)