Talk:Deeprun Tram

--Tinkerer 04:12, 4 October 2006 (EDT)How many "stations" are there on the deep run tram, including the ones the tram doesn't currently stop at? --Xmuskrat 16:16, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * The tram only has two stations, one at each end. --Powerlord 21:03, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)

The east-west issue mentioned in the article I was able to overlook; you could say the machinery of the tram is polarized strongly enough to reorient your compass, or even just chalk it up to a forgivable programming simplification of the situation. What concerns me much more is how do you cross under a fairly large body of water while progressing in a straight line from Stormwind to Ironforge? --Maldian 12:38, 26 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Mabey It is an Water Tank, no place of water.. just.. plain simple.. a water tank...Yenea Whindlebolt 18:49, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

tram
I have a theory! I think tram is actualy build for between the ironforge and gnomeregan! It is logical because gnomes and dwarves are cousins and they need a special transportation. And about the ocean part in deeprun tram: IT IS NOT THE OCEAN! Think about it; if the deeprun tram is realy between gnomeregan and ironforge, then that water part is iceflow lake!!

I don't think Iceflow would be able to hold the amount of water that is seen in the Tram.Maybe the Tram Passes Kul Tiras because of the Sunken Ship seen during the water part.Also a Ship could not make it from the sea to Iceflow because it is clearly blocked by Gnomeregan.Also the Gnomeregan to Ironforge tram theory is disproved because Gnomeregan is Easily Accessible from mount and even by foot.The tram wouldn't be needed. Hammerdin


 * Hammerdin, you're neglicting the obvious industrial applications for such a connection. Gnomeregan is (was) an industrial assembly nexus, while Ironforge is a metallurgy plant and foundry.  They may be easily connected by road but they occupy the same mountain range, and that mountain range from all angles shows signs that it has been developed more extensively then the dimensions of the parts that we do see; towers and spires that don't map to parts that we know of, so the only conclusion can be that there are parts we don't know of.  From an industrial utility view, having a rapid, automated connection between the ironworks and the assembly line makes a huge amount of sense.  Not to mention that we know that the Gnomes produced submarines in their facilities as well, and unless their city extends all the way to the coastline it seems unlikely that they could have hauled their subs across Dun Morogh, through Dun Algaz, and across the Wetlands to the very sparse facilities at Menethil Harbor, which are in no way equipped to support extensive repairs to submarines.  See my post below.


 * Piroko 13:44, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

Gnomeregan Tram Theory
(Revised)

It has been suggested both here and otherwise that the Deeprun Tram might have been originally constructed to connect Gnomeregan to Ironforge, and that the Stormwind branch is merely an extension. While this thinking is of course irrelevant to the game as it is now, it is my stalwart opinion that these theories are correct. What will follow is an objective, point by point analysis of the case in favor of a Gnomeregan-Ironforge connection.

Shared Mountain Range
Both Ironforge and Gnomeregan occupy the same mountain range in Dun Morogh. Their physical distance on the map is shorter then the overall length of the the Gnomeregan instance, so it is certainly possible that a physical connection might exist merely as a result of their proximity. Dun Morogh is a high altitude region near the timberline boundary that would be frozen much of the year even in the best of times, so having any type of physical connection makes at least some sense if only to avoid the cold. Furthermore, the moutains occupied by Ironforge and Gnomeregan show signs of further development beyond what is depicted in the instance and the city. There are spires rising from within the mountain at Dun Algaz and along the southern border of the Wetlands, with no obvious entrances. There is an airfield above Ironforge as well, with a tunnel leading into the mountains. Naturally this must be connected to the city (even if it isn't connected to the player-reachable city).

Metallurgy Needs
It is known that the Gnomes and Dwarves cooperated on a large number of engineering projects, but that the Gnomes were the principle 'industrious' force behind these machines. Ironforge has a massive forge that appears to be possibily volcanically operated. The Dwarves themselves appear to be inclined towards blacksmithing, which would not require such extensive foundry works. Gnomish technology, however, cannot be explained with blacksmithing. Complex machinery is made using cast parts, not smithed parts. Guns, Robots, Mechanostriders, Mechanotanks, Gyrocopters, Aircraft, Submarines, Siege Tanks... even items as simple as gears and bolts are typically cast, not smithed. Casting requires a furnace to produce pure, liquid metal in large quantites (since casting is a hit-or-miss trade; however faulty castings can be melted and recast); a furnace the Dwarves have. Naturally, it follows that the gnomes must be somehow obtaining this metal from the Dwarves. However, a pipe would not suffice for the purpose of moving metal from Ironforge to Gnomeregan; nothing short of a magic pipe using a magnetic bottle principle could carry molten metal without being choaked with slag, so they have to be using braziers, which are heavy and extremely hot, and must be moved to the worksite quickly before the metal cools.

Presence of Infrastructure
Gnomeregan already has rails of the same type used in the Deeprun Tram, expecially down the largest tunnels. Ironforge has pipes and braziers already in place along the ceiling of the great forge that could have been used to load braziers for transport.

Layout of Gnomeregan
Gnomeregan is arranged in a mostly linear fashion. Aside from a small cantina, a "dormitory" which is orders of magnitude too small to accommodate the population, a remote lab off the main tunnel, the Hall of Gears, and an air defense aerodrome, the instance mostly consists of two large tunnels with rails running along a trench. There is no evidence of extensive residential regions, which must exist so we can only presume that they exist elsewhere.

Role of Gnomeregan
It is known that Gnomeregan assembled siege tanks, aircraft, and submarines, and that they did so in reasonably large numbers. For Gnomeregan to have developed submarines, they would require a facility for that purpose, and barring Kul Tiras (which we have not seen in-game), the only other possibility is that those facilities are part of Gnomeregan. Since it's known that gnomes have the ability to work in deep water (evidenced by the current Deeprun Tram, regardless of what its path is), it becomes possible to assume that they had some sort of sub-surface submarine pen attached to Gnomeregan along the western coast of Khaz Modan, which would face Kul Tiras. As difficult a feat as this is to imagine, it makes more sense then them being hauled to Menethil for launching, and without seeing Kul Tiras no conclusion can be made about whether they were built there. It's also clear that Gnomeregan's entrance is too small to accomodate siege tanks, so if they were built there then they too must have been removed from the facility by some other means then is visible today.

Theory
From all this information, a theory forms. Gnomeregan DID connect to Ironforge, and in fact used trams for a variety of purposes. The tunnels we see today, with their tram rails and side walkways, may very well have been assembly lines, using tramcars to carry tanks and aircraft being assembled, with the finished vehicles being taken off to Ironforge. Cars would carry molten metal from Ironforge back to Gnomeregan to be cast into vehicles and weapons for the Alliance. Still more trams would carry assembled submarines down to hidden facilities along the Western coast, protected from Horde assault by being underwater. Elsewhere in the city, thouands of gnomes lived in a hidden section, perhaps one better suited to their short stature; the city we see now was big merely because it was the public part; the factory lines that visitors might wish to see.

Piroko 09:31, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Nice theory, really nice. I like it. And it has a point. Mayeb this all is true. We may never know... -- Hefaistus


 * We may. As unlikely as it may be my hope is that Blizzard recognizes in a future release that the Gnome and Troll capitals could be used to kick-off the fight against the Burning Legion, and then be redesigned to become actual cities with new content.  The problem of course is that I doubt Blizzard's level designers have as far-reaching a vision for Gnomeregan as I do myself.  My hope, at least, is that there will be a Warcraft IV featuring a reconquest of Gnomeregan. Piroko 09:31, 19 September 2006 (EDT)


 * What I'd LIKE to see them do of course is bring Gnomeregan back in full force. I have a lot of visions of what it could look like (for some reason I always picture the residential half of Gnomeregan as sort of a gnome sized version of Little Italy, with lots of gnome sized apartments with lots of window half-balconies, and pipes, wires, and clotheslines strewn all over the place).Piroko 14:12, 19 September 2006 (EDT)


 * Ooooohhh just like the homes that are discribed in the Alliance RPG book. The only things missing is the gnome itself :P Hefaistus

There are some beds in the dormitory, and all the rails connect in one track starting at the wall opposite techbot's room and ending right before Thermoplugg.-- 19:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Even just accounting the number of gnome NPCs in the game (in the low hundreds), if one assumes that the vast majority of the gnomes died in the defense of the city, then it becomes obvious and clear that the facilities we see in gnomeregan are inadaquate to host the population of the city and thus, as in Stormwind with the closed gates, and in Ironforge with the visible spires in the mountains, that there must have existed parts of the city that simply weren't depicted.


 * When arguing lore and theorycraft, the absence of something in the depicted gameworld does not preclude the possibility that it did exist at one point. Gnomeregan may indeed have bunking facilities but to believe the cantina we see now was a market or inn for the entire population is laughable; a breakroom maybe.  No, the gnomeregan we see today is just a transport line or assembly line, and an air base.


 * Remember, we know that the defenders demolished at least one tunnel leading into the hall of gears. It's this tunnel that I believe lead to the city "proper".  The hall of gears, in my own thinking, might have been an astrolabe, a giant clock-computer, or maybe even some sort of drive-works for the rail system.  And beyond the now blocked side tunnel, the residence part of the gnomish city.


 * Also, the tracks in the train station... the train station tunnel geometrically does not link up with the corridor to the lab, so there must be more sections that exist past that door that the player presumably just walks through. Piroko 12:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The River Deeprun
It states on a few Deeprun tram sources, for example the Gnome Wikipedia Article, that this tram is actually in the RIVER Deeprun. Although this may seem a bad excuse of Blizzard to explain why there's water, it's still lore. And it seems.. logical. Any thoughts? --Tinkerer 04:12, 4 October 2006 (EDT)


 * It still wouldn't entirely explain how a boat or treasure chest got there. BTW, don't say that blizzard uses the term, "River Deeprun" and link to wikipedia. That's not Blizzard, and therefore the info could be questionable.


 * I haven't found a direct link to any "River Deeprun" myself, that I can think of, although there might be info about the underground river (I'm not sure though, might have misread it on an unofficial source). In anycase if real, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a name.Baggins 19:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)Baggins 19:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Extending the Deeprun Tram
I so wish Blizzard would extend the route the tram makes. For instance, it would be perfect if it went to Exodar aswell. That way, Draenei and Night Elves wouldn't need to make the "death-run" through Wetlands. As it is now, you might aswell take the gryphon travelling between Ironforge and Stormwind. You won't win much time by taking the tram really. The infrastructure of the Alliance need improvment! --Odolwa 16:23, 12 January 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, then the Horde would need something as well to connect Silvermoon with the Kalimdor settlements (Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff - I exclude the Silvermooon-Undercity portal, because it was made to allow blood elf players get to some 30 lv areas). As for now, everything is balanced enough, having 3 connections each:
 * Horde Zeppelin Ogrimmar/Undercity - Alliance Deeprun Tram Stormwind/Ironforge
 * Horde Zeppelin Ogrimmat/Grom'Gol Base ~ Alliance Ship Auberdine/Menethil Harbour
 * Horde Zeppelin Undercity/Grom'Gol Base ~ Alliance Ship Theramore Isle/Menethil Harbour
 * If the Alliance was to get something, the Horde would have to get something as well. And I don't know what could be the reasons to connect Kalimdorian Azuremyst Isles with Eastern Kingdoms continent... And even why the heck the dwarves, gnomes, or whoever from the Alliance would like to make gods-only-know-how-damn-long tunnel under the Great Sea? Most of the journey would be cut anyway because of the loading sequence when travelling between continents. --Sul&#39;jin 11:00, 12 January 2007 (EST)


 * The solution is to make the tram run through Ironforge to Menethil. It would be impossible to build any kind of structure crossing the great sea. --  Varghedin   talk / contribs  19:32, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Do not underestimate the gnomes ;) Anyway, for us it's quite impossible to fly a dimensional ship, still that's possible in WoW. My point is: nothing is impossible in a fantasy world like this =) --Odolwa 19:38, 12 January 2007 (EST)


 * Which doesn't change the fact that there is no logical explanation why should this extension be created. Some places are just made without direct connection to make it more difficult to reach. And there's a reason why only night elves start with Friendly reputation with Exodar, the rest being on Neutral (or so I've heard). --Sul&#39;jin 19:51, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Hm, okey. Because I know for a fact that Draenei start as friendly with all cities. --Odolwa 20:15, 12 January 2007 (EST)


 * I can agree with extending it to Menethil, it would make sense and be quite useful. The only problem being the easy route into IF, but that would be solved by guards and having it a reasonable length. 20:40, 12 January 2007 (EST)

About the east-west issue.
It isn't running east and west. You need to look the whole picture before making any accusations. Let's say that = is the gate of Ironforge and - is a corridor of Ironforge and # is the Deeprun Tram station of Ironforge and. is the rail of Deeprun Tram. So the map of Ironforge is like this... --- /    \        --# \     /  .   ---    .    =

And since the gate of Ironforge is pointing south and the rail is parallel to it you can see that Deeprun Tram does run north and south and not east and west.
 * This can be blamed on the heavy 'electical' curent used.. thus making the 'compas' act weird.. if there wasnt a minimap.. you wouldnt even have known where north was... ;-) Yenea Whindlebolt 19:55, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Land Between Stormwind and Ironforge.
I'm just curious but does anyone know what the name of the land is between SW and IF that the Deeprun goes through.--NPC582
 * Going from the in-game map, it passes mostly through the Searing Gorge and Burning Steppes. - Dark T Zeratul 18:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Nope, it "doesn't" exist in many maps, and the maps where it does, it hasn't been given a name. Blizzard seems to ignore it. Edit:Referring to the block of land north of stormwind, west of SG/BS, and south of Ironforge.Baggins 19:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Part of the problem is that the game implementation of WoW differs from the early maps of Azeroth. Originally, Stormwind, Ironforge, and Baradin Bay would have been curved around with Blackrock Spire positioned above the dark portal.  The problem is that the level designers decided to combine the Warcraft 1 and 2 maps.  In Warcraft 1, there were no mountains between the Portal and Blackrock Spire, and Stormwind Keep was where it is today.  In Warcraft 2, there WERE mountains, but only one range of them.


 * What the designers did was take the black morass and turn it into Redridge, move the swamp up alongside it, and add in mountains. This forced the location of Stormwind to the point where it was almost directly below Ironforge.  The flight paths had to be routed in an L shape because if you were to somehow jump off the roof of Stormwind keep, you'd be in Dun Morogh. Piroko 15:57, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Point of note Stonetalon is in Kalimdor, not the Eastern Kingdoms.Baggins 02:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think he means Redridge Mountains :). Z33w0wmast3r 11:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep. My mistake. Piroko 18:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I heard of a glitch
Once when i was reading an "explorers" article (i think it was on thottbot with the screens from all sorts of weird areas) ssomeone mentioned "outside the waterglass in deeprun tram" and "to simple to ever make a video" does anyone here know how that would be a fun boss.( nessy )Scorpx2 00:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)scorpx2


 * I've heard of this, but I've also heard that Blizzard since then taken steps to make the deeprun tram unreachable on the map. Piroko 15:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * More than steps. The tram is an instance. It doesn't actually exist. You enter the instance in IF, you leave it in SW. That simple. R&#39;son-W 21:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, There is a a way to get into the "tank" in the Deeprun Tram. And the Sea Serpent named Nessy is just an offshoot of the Lochness monster. She is unkillable as the Lockness monster was never actually found in real life. z33w0wmast3r 23:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

link
The link in the sentence "In these maps, Deeprun tram actually passes under a very small portion of "The Great Sea", directly south of Kul Tiras and other islands (example)" is broken. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 11:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)