Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 3

Lunar Falls?
This is only a question. Is it just me or does the website Lunarfalls really have no information at all retaining to Warcraft other than like a couple of names in the A-D section?... I guess I may just be confused as if they ever had information on there on the first place, or is this just placed there for attention because this person may have edited Illidans section? I'm only curious. - Erissia


 * When WoWWiki was started, and for a fair amount of time afterwards (before my time, even), most of the lore biographies were essentially quoted from Lunar Falls. Though most of the articles in question now bear no resemblence to the Lunar Falls information, we cover our tracks. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)


 * oh! thats pretty cool, I wish it was still around then =(! - Erissia
 * They still have the manual lore from the earlier WCs transcribed... =O--Sky 00:25, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Misc. notes
I'd like to remove the notes about "costing him his soul" and the one about Lady Vashj. Any objections?-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
 * tbh, I'd say leave the Vashj and merge the "costing him his soul" note skillfully into the main text. My .--Sky (t · c · w) 18:00, 22 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Perhaps. The reason I bring it up is that they're both comparatively minor issues; also, I don't know anyone who takes the "costing your soul" completely literally. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:23, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Included Illidan's picture
But the quality is pretty shitty...If anyone else got a better one plz upload it again

Also how do you make the picture bigger? didigo10


 * First, sign your posts. Second. How can there be a non-datamined picture of Illidan? The temple is not ingame yet...--Maibe 07:56, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I know this is the wrong place and time to mention this, but how is Arthas stronger than Illidan in wc3? they were evenly matched BEFORE Illidan got his wings and Arthas is serverely weaked at the battle at Northtrend.

We are prepared

Anyway, I think that with tier 5 armour sets and the like, we will be prepared for the battle against Illidan. still don't think he will die until wc4 since we are able to kill Thrall, slyvannas and many main characters in WoW!?!? --Jammidodger 16:11, 7 April 2007 (EDT)
 * What a lot of people are missing, is that there's often a quest to kill the endboss of a raid, whereas there aren't any to kill the faction leaders or other characters. Quests should be assumed to be part of lore, when possible. --Bobson 13:06, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Quests doesn't prove that it has happened lore-wise. For instance, both Alliance and Horde gets a quest involving killing the leaders of the Scarlet Monastery. What will it say in the lore? A person can't be killed twice, you know. --Odolwa 15:00, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Not in real life maybe, but certainly not a sure thing in Warcraft.

"I know this is the wrong place and time to mention this, but how is Arthas stronger than Illidan in wc3? they were evenly matched BEFORE Illidan got his wings and Arthas is serverely weaked at the battle at Northtrend. "

Illidan was meaning to do Arthas harm, and Arthas just wanted to point him in the direction of the Skull of Gul'Dan, so he may have been holding back. Arthas was no longer weakened as the Lich King restored his powers. As I've pointed out before, Arthas and Illidan went at it blade-to-blade, so Arthas may have just been the better melee fighter. And while it's not something I see played up much in fiction, all it takes is one mistake to lose a fight.--Austin P 22:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Model: Spoilers
http://worldofraids.free.fr/news-patch/mobs/screenshot_170.jpg - Looks like a poor Dreadlord. ~FieryAxel

I'm doubtful... i'm VERY doubtful. Hordesupporter 01:05, 14 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Do not add screenshots to the article until Illidan is seen in-game. 17:23, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, Kirk. I know. FieryAxel| 20:15, 14th April 2007 (EDT)

I'm afraid people keep trying to add in-game pictures to the article... *sigh*. Hordesupporter 16:02, 15 April 2007 (EDT)


 * There are also his little comrades in Silithus.-- K )  (talk) 08:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Dying Speech
The sound of him dying is released in the test realm patch. http://www.invictuswow.com/pics/BLACK_Illidan_16.wav

I wrote what he said down: [nowiki] Maiev... how is it even possible? You have won.... Maiev But the huntress.... is nothing without the hunt YOU are NOTHING witout me *coughs* [/nowiki] Should this be added to the main page yet ?


 * No, at least not until 2.1 is released. 17:23, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Sign your posts. And I agree with Kirkburn, it's too early for this. It still remains to be seen what the case will be. --Odolwa 18:50, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

OMG here are sum quotez here-- 20:51, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure this quote means he dies, but i'd like to wait until 2.1 before we say anything for certain. Hordesupporter 23:11, 16 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, IF it does mean it and Maiev actually kills him...Maiev managed what a dozen of characters didn't manage before: Kick Staghelm off the 1st place as the most hated/loathed/despised character ingame...--Maibe 06:40, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm surprised at the decision to kill him, if it is indeed true. Based on Kaplan's comments at Blizzcon, and the Burning Crusade FAQ page, Illidan being "killable" was out of the question. Perhaps the designers put these sound files to "stick it" to data miners by having them create false speculation. --  T y r s e n u s   t c    16:16, 17 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Perhaps a later event, novel, or Warcraft IV will have him revived? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:12, 17 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I hope so, but i think blizzard wont revive him. In my view, its pity that they killed him, He was one of the coolest characters in warcraft history and blizz did a bad step when they did this. I thought he will just run away and later in another expansions he would play also some important role. Well.. Pity but its just a character and we have to live with it :P Dig a grave for him in your garden and sharp your blades on another boss :) Goodbye Illidan. Axel

You know Illidan is probably too powerful to be killed. We're ignoring the fact that the "fightable" Illidan may be a puppet or projection to put people who want to kill him like Kil'jaeden, Arthas(Maybe), The Shat'ar, Kael'thas etc. off track. Anuragsahay 07:47, 18 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Real original. Next, you'll be telling that the Illidan we're fighting is actually his clone/twin brother. Mr. peasant 20:05, 18 April 2007 (EDT)


 * He already has a twin, remember? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:09, 18 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I'm totally fond of this idea: why wouldn't we be allowed to kill Malfurion? (/taunt Ragestorm)-- K )  (talk) 20:10, 18 April 2007 (EDT)


 * No reason, but A) they look nothing alike, so it would be impossible to kill Malfurion masquerading as Illidan and B) Malfurion has no real motivation to impersonate Illidan- apart from anything else, Illidan woudl die anyway, because Tyrande would go after Illidan for not stopping Malfurion. This, of course, would allow Staghelm to take over the night elf government, and Maiev and Tyrande would again battle for the position of High Priestess. Kaldorei society would thus be torn apart, thereby forcing the draenei to fill the void of Alliance power in Kalimdor, which will incur the ire of the Horde (leading to all sorts of Thrall/Jaina interactions), probably encouragint Sylvanas to launch a renewed assault on the Eastern Kingdoms, thus leaving Azeroth at the mercies of Arthas, Azshara, or Kil'jaeden.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:23, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

....Just a brief question, more out of curiosity than anything, if Maiev does in fact kill Illidan (the sound of him dying broke my heart..now i'll be depressed for weeks), will she in fact go after Tyrande at some point? seems logical, after all, she wanted her locked away for freeing the Outlord in the first place. If so though, i wonder if Illidan will some how make good on his promise: "No matter what I may be, no matter what I may become in this world, know that I will always look out for you, Tyrande..."--Daughter of Sargeras 07:50, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * If she decides that she needs another target in her "Hand of Justice" crusade, then yes, she will go after Tyrande. This will raise a number of interesting issues. Sorry, but there's no way Illidan will help Tyrande from beyond the grave; in the unlikely event that she can't take care of herself, remember that Tyrande is the Chosen of Elune. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 09:16, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I know this is shameless self-promotion, but: I once made this...so...think there could be a bit thruth in that theory..and illidan will be able to renew?--Maibe 10:22, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * First of all... chibi? how dare you! Second, we don't actually know how many people can do taht apart from Sargeras. Admittedly, if you had a Soulstone... but that usualy makes the Horadrim come after you, and then an intrepid hero follows you into the depths of the Burning Hells... opps, wrong universe! -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:49, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, if I may interject with my own piece. Introductions another time. Regardless of killing him... how power has Illidan truely become anyways? Balnazzar came back from the dead, as did Medivh. Medivh was brutally slain by Khadgar & co., and yet here he is almost 2 decades later trying to save the world he nearly destroyed. I think Illidan might be powerful enough to.. well... "Pull a Medivh." This isn't the last we've seen of Illidan Stormrage. Warcraft's Favourite Anti-Hero/Mistunderstood Villain will be back, I think. This time to set things straight. Of course, part of my belief is that we won't hear from him until we can enter the Emerald Dream. That would be my first order of business as a "Redeemed" Illidan. Seek our Furion. Of course this is all pipedreams and speculation, from my end, with only a few cues from Furion's conversation with Remulos back during the AQ opening.--ArthosRa 0:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, Balnazaar did it as well...didn't he?--Maibe 20:49, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * The only way Illidan can "pull a Medivh" is if Mrs. Stormrage has somehow survived for ten millenia without telling either of her sons (Aegwynn was the one who revived him). I wouldn't call Illidan a misunderstood villain- everyone understands why he's a villain. As for coming back... This is Warcraft, so not surprising in the slightest. FYI, none of this goes in the article. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 09:43, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I think it would be interesting if Illidan transported his spirit to the Emerald Dream to help Malfurion and Cenarius, after he gets killed by Maiev. Cenarius exists in the Emerald Dream after his death, so Illidan just might be able to do the same. although it seems somewhat unlikely seeing as how Illidan doesn't exactly care for the druidic ways too much, so he might not know how to send his spirit there. but still that'd be nice. and would explain why Outland came before the Emerald Dream expansion.~Nicolai_Stormrage
 * I'm thinking Illidan will end up in the Emerald Dream too, but not of his own power. Illidan has never held much respect for the druidic arts, nor does he have the ability to walk the Emerald Dream, let alone transport his spirit there when he dies.  Malfurion, on the other hand... - Dark T Zeratul 16:27, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

I am amazed nobody has mentioned that this might not be him dying. He sounds like he is dying, true, but he could still escape. It is just his "dying" speech, not necessarily the speech he gives as he actually perishes. It could be, for all meanings, only an in-game defeat. --Haddon 18:43, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I thought the Emerald Dream thing too (see above). Also, I think the reason for Ouland comeing before the Dream is Outland needs to come befor Northrend because Illidan is weaker than Arthas (even befor his LichKingification), and Northrend needs to come before the dream for 2 reasons: One, the Emerald Dream encompasses all pre-sundering Azeroth, therefore northrend needs to be desined (though, any geographic retcons can be explained via time). And two, the 5th Great tree (Emerald Dream portal) is in Northrend. -- 18:52, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Considering Illidan's popularity, it's possible this "dying" speech does not neccessairly mean we actually kill him, but mearly defeat him. It's a possibility that he does in fact die, but for now I won't say anything more. Hordesupporter 20:26, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Um, you're saying a million times the same thing. His popularity won't do anything, the last time the customers' opinion was taken into account was when the Pandaren got featured in WC:TFT.-- K )  (talk) 20:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Critisize me all you want, but ask yourself one thing, do you honestly thing your insults mean anything to me? Hordesupporter 20:37, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Oh, what the hell now? I haven't insulted you! Are you too paranoid just to open your eyes? I was just saying that the same facts are brought up a million times and the talk page gets more and more overwhelmed by "no, he won't be killed" or "what if there remained one sole possibility for him to survive" etc. I'm not only talking about you and I didn't insult anyone.-- K )  (talk) 20:45, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

How was my statement paranoid? I'm just saying that considering the amount of Illidan fanboys/fangirls the choice to kill him would be met with extreme critisizem, also note that your statement more or less said "Your moron for trying to discuss this". Hordesupporter 20:49, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Where the heck is that "amount" you're talking about? His popularity is not so large as you say. Criticism only comes from isolated fanboys who think their will has to be taken into account. And no, I never called you a moron for trying to discuss this : you're not even discussing this, you (all) are repeating the same stuff and not bringing relevant elements.-- K )  (talk) 20:58, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I don't care about Illidan, although the reaction to this "dying" clip caused something of an uproar on the WoW forums, so I assumed that Illidan was just an extremly popular character. Hordesupporter 23:25, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Like i mentioned somewhere earlier, a character's popularity won't stop Blizzard from killing them off. Anduin Lothar is a good example here. Lothar was just as, if not more, popular in his time, than Illidan is now. Lothar was also an actual hero, a good guy. Blizzard killed him off. Illidan is a bad guy and a raid boss now. it seems probable to me that Blizzard won't give a crap about his popularity. They can end the character's life whenever they want. And this is probably their best chance to do just that.

Sign your posts, please. We still don't even know if anything we kill in WoW will stays dead in the lore. As I have said before, the fact that both Horde and Alliance gets the same type of quests, involving killing the same type of bosses (bosses can't be killed by both factions), it makes me think that everything we do in WoW just is a big ingame-thing, that won't affect the lore when we look back at it in the future :) --Odolwa 17:50, 22 April 2007 (EDT)


 * A few things here. First, anduin lothar was nowhere near as popular as illidan. there websites and entire games based off of him, he has a huge play in war 3, tft, the trilogy, and now BC, they even built a massive illidan statue for blizcon. Second, anduin lothar wasn't killed off by a bunch of little weakling wannabe-hero PC characters. he was killed off by Orgrim Doomhammer, THE orc of orcs at the time, and only after massive battles at the foot of the volcano. there is a massive difference between one of the most influential characters dying at the hands of another hero, and dying at the hands of a bunch of no-name nothings. even dying at the hands of maiev that easily is a bit of a stretch, i think, considering he never got his final face off with tyrande, furion kil'jaedan. i think it is pretty preposterous to assume from this clip he is just dead. and lastly, yes blizzard can kill off whoever, whenever, but chris metzen has poured his life into the story, i very seriously doubt he would be willing to just throw away extremely important characters. even kel'thuzad isnt dead. --Haddon 19:41, 22 April 2007 (EDT)


 * If someone doesn't sign their posts, sign it for them please, and perhaps give them a reminder on their talk page. See also WW:SIG. 20:23, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Quote: Nicolai Stormrage:"I think it would be interesting if Illidan transported his spirit to the Emerald Dream to help Malfurion and Cenarius, after he gets killed by Maiev." You know, It could be possible...Illidan is listed in the World of Warcraft Community Site Encyclopedia as having extraordinary potential as a druid, as his eyes indicated (though he was too impatient to realize this). I wonder why they would put that in now, unless there were some chance of Illi being reborn somehow in the Emerald Dream...anyway, I suppose i'm getting way ahead of myself, and WOW, here. :)) But I dont think that's the last we've seen of him :)--Daughter of Sargeras 15:07, 25 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Potential is potential; this isn't arcane magic, where an inherent talent triggers a teleportation spell. To return to the Emerald Dream, he'd have to not only cross into another dimension, but cross back to Azeroth. Still possible in the realms of theory, but he's unlikely to suddenly decide to persue druidic training and help Furion and Cenarius. Even if he joined them, he wouldn't do so as a druid. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:13, 25 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I see what you mean. But still, considering the different times they were around, Illidan has more chance to become more popular, but anyways. Yea Metzen put a lot of Effort into Illidan, but still that doesn't mean he won't kill him. Illidan's forces are done for pretty much. Vashj is dead, Kael and Akama both are traitors, (Kael probably gonna die himself). And the Heroes of the game are gonna kill everythin else for the most part. It just my opinion though that it seems highly likely that Illidan is finally going to die. Although it may or may not be the last we hear of him. Nicolai Stormrage 17:52, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

What makes you think that killing bosses in-game are changing anything? In the past we have cleared both Scholomance, Stratholme and Naxxramas itself. Still the Scourge is going strong in the Plaguelands. Our actions in-game have absolutely no meaning. -Odolwa 07:22, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Hamlet
Is anyone planning to insert Shakepearean analogies for all other major characters? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:29, 29 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I added a speculation stub sir... OOH! We should make a seperate page for them all! That would fix things!-- 13:31, 29 April 2007 (EDT)


 * That sounds more like it, though I personally think it's not the most vital excercise, given that all heroes, anti-heroes and villains have parallels to countless unrelated stories- for example, when I look at the Brothers Stormrage, I see Set and Osiris.
 * If you want to persue this, go ahead and make a separate page for it- now that I think of it, I noticed Tyrande and Furion channelling A Midsummer Night's Dream in WC3. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:35, 29 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I added that section because it wasn't apparent to me why Illidan would be holding a skull. He was holding it in the cinematic and a lot of focus was put on it.  In the Black Temple, we again see him gazing into the skull.  The reiteration makes it seem important.  I realized that Hamlet is often portrayed in the same manner and found other connections from there (insanity, etc.).  I haven't done research on any other characters. -- 21:16, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Maybe it is the Skull of Gul'dan?-- 21:35, 29 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Supposedly Illidan consumed the skull, which I interpret as he destroyed it and was bestowed with its powers. If it is Gul'dan's skull, I don't think Illidan would casually throw it aside like we see in the cinematic. -- 22:37, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Upon further research, orcs do not have large canines on their upper teeth, only the lower teeth, which would suggest that it is not the skull of Gul'dan or any other orc. -- 01:47, 30 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Uh, actually some orcs did have large canines on their upper teeth. Kilrogg Deadeye for example (notice his tusks). Infact Skull of Gul'dan had them back in Warcraft II and III, think of it as strange effects from Mannoroth's corruption. Also consider the fel orc models in game, some also have tusks coming from the upper mouth.


 * Beyond that, there really is no need to have shakespeare in the main articles... Just as much as we avoid having refrences to bibicial stories as well in main articles, or comparisons to historical events.Baggins 01:52, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Blood/High Elves
If you think about it, Illidan is the reason High Elves and Blood Elves exist. If he hadn't filled those vials, Dath'Remar couldn't have taken one and made the sunwell.

It's kind of interesting realizing that an entire race (sorta) was created by Illidan. --DerSquirrel 03:49, 5 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Meh. If any one person would be credited with the creation of the high elves, it should be Dath'Remar. The fact that Illidan made the vial available is an indirect factor. There was already a faction split going on, and it would probably have happened anyway, albeit possibly different results. Without a Sunwell, it might have been that the high elves had overcome their magic addition millennia ago. -- 06:47, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

Illidan also created the Undead Forsaken. It was Illidan's spell weaved on Icecrown that weakened the Lich King, and enabled some Undead to break free of his tyrant will. --Odolwa 06:50, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

The Hamlet Section is b@!!$#%t
Forgive me, but I happen to be familiar with Hamlet, and with or without the speculation marker, this section really doesn't deserve a place on the Illidan page. I'll explain my reasoning in detail:

"Throughout the play, Hamlet feigns madness, which is believed to stem from his love for Ophelia. Likewise, Illidan has gone mad (although it is unknown if it is feigned) which can be partially attributed to his love of and rejection by Tyrande."

Hamlet FEIGNS madness throughout the play. Illidan, on the other hand, becomes mentally unstable after being locked up underground for ten thousand years, and finally snaps after his defeat at the hands of Arthas. This is not a valid comparison. The only similarity between them is that the idea of madness is somehow involved in both stories. By this rationale, I could say that Illidan and Jitters are similar characters, or say the same thing about Jitters and Hamlet.

"In the Burning Crusade, players find Illidan kneeling and holding a skull (possibly the Skull of Gul'dan, and exactly like the Burning Crusade cinematic), an homage to Hamlet's "to be or not to be" soliloquy, in which Hamlet is popularly depicted holding and peering at a skull while contemplating suicide."

Hamlet does not hold a skull during the "to be or not to be" soliloquy. This is a common conflation of two famous moments in the play, frequently made by people who actually know nothing about Hamlet. The only point in the play when Hamlet picks up a skull is later, in the gravedigger scene, when he says "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio..."

Even without this glaring error, this point is seriously flawed. The fact that both Illidan and Hamlet hold skulls at various points in their respective stories means nothing. Hamlet gazes at the skull because he is fascinated by the idea that life can be taken so easily and so quickly, and only dust will remain. Illidan holds a skull because somebody at Blizzard thought it would look cool. There is absolutely NO evidence that Illidan has any of the same thoughts as Hamlet.

"Hamlet ultimately rejects death, which he likens to dreams and sleeping; likewise, Illidan rejects druidic magic, and its Emerald Dream, which can only be accessed via sleep."

Again, this line proves that whoever wrote this had at best minimal knowledge of Shakespeare's Hamlet. Hamlet most emphatically does not "ultimately reject death." Hamlet ultimately decides, in his "Let Be" soliloquy, that death comes to everybody, that "the readiness is all," and that he will not try to fight his fate but rather must accept it. On top of that, the Emerald Dream has nothing to do with death, despite the symbolic association of the latter with sleep.

Lastly, what upsets me most about this section is that it draws on a bunch of surface similarities between Illidan and Hamlet (most of which are themselves suspect) without considering that the fundamental motivations and personalities of the two characters are entirely different. Hamlet's central problem, throughout the play, is paralysis. He is unable to act, because he is too obsessed with the consequences of his actions. In the end, he finally breaks this curse by acting entirely upon instinct, without any consideration, and killing Claudius in revenge for his mother's death. By this point, however, he is already doomed.

Illidan, on the other hand, enters the Warcraft saga by destroying armies of demons, absorbing the power of a demonic artifact, and killing a major commander of the Burning Legion. There is simply no trace of the paralysis that is the most defining aspect of Hamlet's character. Any comparison between Illidan and Hamlet is, simply put, rather idiotic.

Without further ado, I am deleting the offending section of the Illidan Stormrage articles. If you have any problems with my decision, take them up here. Thanks --Flamestrider 15:50, 5 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Mind your expletives; and we did need to reduce the length anyway. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:27, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

I consider it more of a not-so-popular-culture refference moreso than a direct relation.Scorpx2 22:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)scorpx2


 * Sorry, I wasn't aware that people minded. I won't do that in the future. --Flamestrider 06:38, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Sorceror?
As Bliizard says when Night Elves start practicing Wizardry and sorcery, they turn into High Elves. How come Illidan didn't? (Mr.X8 22:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC))

Um... no... we don't actually know how the Elves who left the Night Elf society became High Elves, due to being in a diffrent enviroment, i'm gonna assume it was evolution. Hordesupporter 02:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Night elves were practicing magic for millenia without turning into high elves- the transformation is either the effect of the Sunwell or a result of diurnal activity. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the Highborne were certianly magic users, but this didn't affect their appearance. It was a combination of other factors that caused it. 14:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think he's referring to lore/concept from the first Warcraft RPG book, on sorcerers vs. wizards, which was pretty much discussing "current history" when the book took place, just after the Frozen Throne. Btw from that info sorcerers would be kicked out of night elf society but not "physically" change (think highborne essentially), were as a wizard would start physically changing into true high elves. Note that later warcraft RPG books never bring the info up except to say that the current night elves would never become arcanists of any sort.Baggins 00:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Completing the Black Temple pre q and madness
once a person has completed the Black Temple pre quest Illidan yells (not a direct quote) "come face me, I'll defeat you, just like I defeated Arthas", this is clear evidence hes gone mad, maybe this should be added to the article

Sign your posts. And no, Illidan yells: "not even Arthas could defeat me". If defeat = death, then Arthas never managed to defeat Illidan. So he is probably not mad at all. --Odolwa 13:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well defeat doesn't necessarily mean death. Arthas does manage to beat Illidan in WC3, and that's before Arthas gains the power of the Lich King. It's only logical to assume that as Arthas became one with the Lich King, that Illidan's odds of winning against him became astronomically small. Pzychotix 13:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Killable ;_;
I'm heartbroken that you can kill him! http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/june/illidan_down.jpg Grats to Nihilum! FTHorde Eris 17:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, one elf less. Great.-- K )  (talk) 18:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * People from Nihilum claim he's not dead though 19:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

He is probably facing a similar fate as Kael'thas. He won't die. --Odolwa 19:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

 -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to gloat about being right, but I'm a little disappointed. I'm not upset at him dying, just that it wasn't as epic as I hoped it could've been. I understand that CG cut scenes aint easy to make, especially at the quality blizzard does theirs, but c'mon! At least some sort of cut scene, rather than him just falling to the group and calling out maive's name.

And in regards to illidan's revival... they'd have to make it original or not do it at all. If he just comes back, resurrects himself, there'd be no point in killing him off in the first place. I sort of like the Emerald Dream theories, but considering his last words were focused on teasing maive, it seems he was evil right to the very end. I also like the idea of the illidan that was killed being a projection of some sort. Maarz 23:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, if they want to resurrect Illidan, I can picture them doing it for a Northrend expansion. Maybe, there might be a group quest where the players have to resurrect Illidan as he alone is powerful enough to stand against Arthas or something along those lines. That way, they can tie up the whole Arthas/Illidan plotline. Just a possible idea. Mr. peasant 16:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Quite unlikely. Illidan was only BARELY able to survive a battle against Arthas, PRE Lich-King powers. I'd assume after melding with the Lich-King, he has become sort of a demi-god. Illidan has not received any sort of ultra power gain since then. The entire Arthas/Illidan plotline was finished in WC3 anyways. Pzychotix 16:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed (well, not entirely, but enough for the purposes of this discussion). If NPCs who are likely to take on Arthas are Jaina, Thrall, Kael (lore-wise), and maybe Malfurion or Tyrande (power-wise). -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I have a suggestion on Illidan's death. He's for sure dead now, Maiev killed him. From what i understand from Nihilum's kill, he doesn't shout anything afterward like Kael did. But anyways, the point of this is, i have 2 suggestions on him possibly coming back. 1. What if after Illidan died, Kil'jaedan reached into the world and snatched Illidan's soul? What if Kil'jaedan resurrected Illidan just to torture him for eternity like he did for Ner'zhul? If there is a Warcraft 4, there could possibly be a quest to save Illidan from his imprisonment at the hands of Kil'jaedan. probably a stealth mission. 2. What if Illidan pulled a Gul'dan? Like what if in Warcraft 4, Some haughty idiot consumes the Skull of Illidan? maybe he spent all that time staring at the skull to channel some of himself into it, in case Kil'jaedan found it? Then that haughty idiot i mentioned could be possessed by Illidan, and ya know Illidan could say something cheesy like, "I'm Back..." Well those are my suggestions. and of course there's always the possibility of him just staying dead. Nicolai Stormrage 15:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Nicolai Stormrage, nothing is definite. If you remember, Maiev was actually killed by Illidan, before it got retconned. So I'm very sceptical to whereas what has just happened in WoW is what really have happened in the lore. We can never be sure about anything any longer. --Odolwa 23:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought on the Illidan kill, Maiev never shows up? Can't find anything about it on google, but that's what I remember. Pzychotix 03:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong direction, Pzych. He said that originally, Illidan killed Maiev, which was retconned by WoW. Not that Maiev killed Illidan. ;) --Sky (t · c · w) 03:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well it wasn't a reply towards Odolwa more than it was toward Nicolai, but it was a general question anyways. Did Maiev pop-up in the last second and do the killing blow on the Illidan encounter? Pzychotix 03:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Maiev has lived the past 5(?) years focusing on nothing but killing Illidan; what does she have now? If you ask me (I know its a little far-fetched), I think Maiev will go crazy having nothing else to live for and try to find a way to resurrect Illidan so that she can continue hunting him, but it will go horribly wrong. Byne 10:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * She's crazy, not stupid. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 10:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Theres a fine line between the two... Byne 14:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's more likely that she'd find someone to become her new "Illidan", and hunt him down, rather than resorting to more dire actions. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 05:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * (exerpt from personal speculation page) I bet she just sits on the couch all day now eating Tigule and Foror's Strawberry Ice Cream and watching Law & Order and Animal Planet.-- 15:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

King or Pawn
For starters, I'll just point out that this article is already very long. as for the theory itself... I admit that the theory itself holds water and may be correct, but this evidence is not suitable to argue the case. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Of course they augmented Illidan's spell (intended to reverse the effect of the demonic portal so that it it would suck demons in instead of spit them out, it had nothing to do with the Demon Soul), it was a vital component of their plan.
 * 2) Given the nature of Illidan's previous association with Azshara, and his power, there is little need for the naga to have Old God-designed motives (we also don't know how Old God-centric naga culture is), though even if there were, this doesn't mean Illidan himself is their pawn, just that he fits into their plans.
 * 3) Just because the Arakkoa are summoning C'THun-like creature in Shadowmoon Valley doesn't mean Illidan is involved.


 * I don't really see how sucking the demons back into the portal would be a part of their plan - after all, they intended not to reverse Sargeras' portal, but usurp it and turn it towards them instead. And once they were on the mortal plane, they could pretty much explode every demon, night elf, and dragon there with nothing but a distracted flicker of their thoughts. I would point out that Illidan was never able to complete his spell, he had to cut it off to avoid notice by Mannoroth - one second he begins casting, Tyrande senses the "darker beings"... next thing we know of them is when Malfurion contacts Tyrande, and she tells him they "dare not cast a spell" for fear of being discovered. So the true intent of Illidan's spell, though Tyrande assumes it is to reverse the portal, may never be known - most likely Illidan was trying to usurp the portal for the Old Gods' benefit, because why on earth would they augment his spell if he was trying to destroy their only path to freedom?


 * As for the Naga, their culture most probably centers around Azshara, as it did before the Sundering - after all, it was not a joint agreement by all the Highborne to have them transformed into Naga, Azshara made a split-second deal and chances are most Naga don't even know why or how they were transformed. As I stated in Naga, "The Old Gods?", the Old Gods say "you will be more than you once were... and when the time comes... you will serve us well...", implying the naga are now servants of the Old Gods, whether or not they realize it. Vashj herself may not know the full truth of it, but was perhaps commanded by Azshara to answer Illidan's summons.


 * Additionally (in regards to Illidan being yet another pawn), when he is showing off with his lightning storm in the WC3:TFT cinematic, he says "Now my blind eyes see what others cannot... that sometimes, the hand of Fate must be forced!" This is eerily similar to the Old Gods' tampering with Time in the War of the Ancients trilogy. Though Illidan may not know it, I believe it safe to assume he is being manipulated by the Old Gods.


 * And yes, I agree that just because the Arrakoa are summoning a creature that uses an Old God model doesn't verify this, but it certainly lends credence - either that or its a hell of a coincidence.


 * Peregrine
 * You're hardly making any sense. Either Illidan is knowingly aiding the Old Gods, and is completely responsible for his actions to that end, or he's not, and randomly doing actions that just so happen to aid them. Your arguments split into both paths, but they're mutually exclusive. Take one side and stick with it. At this point in time, the examples you present are a bit weak since they either help one or the other. Find your story and stick with it. Pzychotix 13:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's the thing, it's neither. The Old Gods are subtle in their ways, they would be most likely influencing his mind, to make him believe he was acting of his own accord. They would hardly just say "go kill this guy" or "go conquer this location" and he would listen, most likely they would put the idea in his head and he, being, you know, completely insane, would believe he had thought of the idea. "Pawn" implies he is unwittingly aiding them by their design. In all probability, he belives that what he is doing, he is doing for his own benefit, when really the Old Gods are outting the thoughts and idea into his head.


 * ~ Peregrine