Talk:Spirit

Old info
It would be great if this page and the Mana Regen page were reconciled and referenced each other. They offer differing information. - unknown

I will recalculate these over the next week, with a more informative comparison to L60 priests. -- Hammersmith 21:30, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

If you're going to overhaul this, it's worth taking a look at the effects at lower levels as well. Having a formula that only works at level 60 isn't something to stop with. Eg. I tested the formulas on both pages with my level 11 shaman alt, and both gave values much higher than I was actually getting. Perhaps only the bonuses matter, and not your base spirit, as for stamina-health and intellect-mana? I was in fact getting 17 mana per tick with no bonus to spirit, which fits with the Mana Regen page's formula for shamans. Esselte 20:37, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

Shaman Spirit to MP5 calculation is apparently SPI/5 + 15 on Level 70, verified with Blizzard UI.

Spirit versus X mana/5 seconds items
1 thing to keep in mind, is that spirit does not / barely work in Combat. while +x mana / 5 second items work just fine during combat. CJ 05:19, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Exactly. Also important to include the druid and priest talents which give 15% regen during combat. A more useful table would compare the 15% regen rate to the mana/sec gear, because that's the real tradeoff. I'm still going to do this, but has taken a bit longer than planned. -- Hammersmith 17:29, 8 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Mages also have a 15% talent, incidentally. Esselte 19:12, 8 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Yes, good point. Plus with mage armor it becomes 45% (I think) so that change the importance of mana/sec gear drastically. -- Hammersmith 05:59, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

data
Seems to be different from the data shown on this spirit page.. which data is correct? CJ 02:22, 17 March 2006 (EST)
 * No idea, I just used what was already on the Spirit page --Mezane 10:05, 17 March 2006 (EST)


 * My ingame testing indicates the formula for priests is (spirit /4) + 14, not 12.5 as indicated. Minor difference, but a difference nonetheless. --Solista 10:41, 4 May 2006 (EDT)
 * My lv14 gnome warlock regens 18.66 (18 19 19 etc) mana per tick with 37 spirit, 21.66 (21 22 22) with 43. Doesn't seem right to me. Wouldn't be surprised if it was level based like agi to crit%. --Jeffrey0 22:40, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Further testing on my 60 druid gives me 37 or 38 regen per tick with no spirit gear on (only base spirit of 110). Adding 20 spirit gives 41 or 42. Seems to be 15.5 + spirit/5 instead of the listed 15. --Jeffrey0 22:56, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Can you clarify this formula table please. Is it the first formala (SPI/x+y) or is it the seocnd one (SPI/x)? it cannot be both at same time. --Bragala
 * Actually it's both. The first value gives what total mana regen will be with x spirit; the second gives the increase in mana regeneration you would see with 1 more spirit than you have now (x+1).--Scrotch 20:49, 28 November 2006 (EST)

misleading example
I don't see why the formula uses (13 + S/4) instead of (12.5 + S/4). If you look at the discussion on the mage Evocation talent, Winterchild reports his results obtained using an addon to measure mana regen as being equivalent to the formula using a constant of 12.5, not 13. Why the example differs from the table is beyond me. --Kanthos 11:44, 25 July 2007 (EST)

This is pretty confusing. Based on this, for mages, the +9 spirit enchant that increases mana by 9/4 = 2.25 mana per tick (2 second) or 5.625 mana per 5 second out of combat. Assuming the Mage has a 45% in combat regen, they would regen 2.53 mp5 in combat. However, the formula given for 45% in combat regen is (14.625 + 9S)/32 = 2.988 mp5. These two numbers don't match.

I assume that the formula of (13 + S/4) / 2 x 5, which has a constant, is the total regen of the character. However, the examples uses this formula when it should in fact, use (S/4 * .45) to determine the regen increase. --Caeryn 03:16, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

After careful reading, I think the data is right but the page needs to be reworked because certain assumptions are made when you place the "total regen" next to "regen per point of spirit" sections.

Could someone clarify the formula a bit?

utility link
The link pointing towards the spirit vs. MP5 utility is broken.

Quote: "A small utility to leverage these formulas, and to compare some aspects of gear, can be found here." --Elev8torguy 08:18, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Increases your weapon proc rate
Really? Luci 13:20, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

No.--Caeryn 17:29, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

Health Regeneration
So far the amount of extra health generated by spirit seems only a minor footnote with no actual data to give insight as to how it works. I'll try some experimentation on this with various characters of various levels. Should be simple enough. --Ayamy 16:09, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I heard that they changed Spirit so that it no longer has any effect on health regen. Can anyone confirm this?--Vexis58 15:55, 04 August 2007 (PST)

Nope, still works for health regen out of combat which basically makes it laughable. Read the character tooltip for spirit to check your rate.-- Zequel

Is there any lore about this stat
Is there any lore behind spirit. Is is willpower, will to surive or what? Zarnks 06:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a game mechanic. Now go back to your basement, lore-freak. Zequel


 * Well to be honest RPG speaks of statistics occasionally from a lore POV. Although it uses a different system of statistics (different type of game, different rules, and even more types of statistics).


 * For example for buccaneer in Lands of Mystery;


 * The buccaneer relies mostly on Agility, as he favors firearms over swords (although he does, of course, use swords and knives frequently), and needs the sure-footedness for his sea legs. Spirit and Stamina help in keeping alive in on the seas, and Strength never hurt a man in a fight. Charisma comes in handy now and then, if the buccaneer would rather bluff his way out of a situation than fight, as rare as those situations may be. Intellect? You don’t need to read to puzzle out a map or recognize treasure.


 * Keep in mind that these comments are right out of the lore articles themselves, and not some statistical section. Yes I don't usually bother to try to paraphrase these bits of content when transcribing the lore to the respected articles. Instead I usually just avoid it, because it would be difficult to convert the sentence into laymens terms, and its still sounds really "gamey".Baggins 17:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is Spirit as it relates to RPG (although I question if it has any relevance the version of spirit in WoW);


 * Spirit relates to common sense and the ability to perceive the environment. It gives a character the ability to look at a forest and fi nd the tracks of a creature; at the simplest level it allows a character to know not to put his hands in the fire, else they will get burned. Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least some Spirit.

Baggins 17:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

X spirit = Y mp5
Any chance of a simple conversion for spirit to mp5 on items? "For druids of level 13, 1/mp5 = 4 spirit when not casting" sort of thing. (Note; above numbers pulled out of air.) Would make it much easier to figure out whether a mp5 item is better than one with extra spirit. As is, the formulas don't make much sense to me... "Math is hard, tee hee." --Azaram 03:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The ratings-buster addon will do this for you I believe. Calculates mp5, +healing off spirt, and the new rating systems. Zequel

Spirit Regen, per FrameXML's PaperDollFrame
I'm actually surprised no one used Blizzard's interface customization tool to look at the UI code itself. Prior to version 2.1.0, the formula for calculating mana regen from spirit was in the code itself.

local baseSpirit = min(50, effectiveStat); local moreSpirit = effectiveStat - baseSpirit; local baseRate = 0.25; local moreRate; if ( unitClass == "MAGE" or unitClass == "PRIEST" ) then moreRate = 0.125; elseif ( unitClass == "DRUID" ) then moreRate = 0.1125; else moreRate = 0.1; end local regen = baseSpirit * baseRate + moreSpirit * moreRate; regen = floor( (regen * 5.0) + 0.5);

From version 2.1.0 onward, it was reduced to the API function API_GetUnitManaRegenRateFromSpirit, similar to the existing API_GetUnitHealthRegenRateFromSpirit. From in game testing however, it appears the underlying function is the same.

What's this mean? For any class, the first 50 spirit gives 0.25 mana per second. After that, each spirit is 0.125 mana per second for a mage or priest, 0.1125 mana per second for a druid (caster or moonkin), and 0.1 mana per second for any other class (including feral druids in form). In spirit to get 1 mana per tick, this works out to be 4 spirit, 4.44 spirit and 5 spirit respectively, matching up closely with the numbers observed.

Tiran 22:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

2.4
(Level 70 Mage) -- Foxlit 17:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC) / kd3


 * This data fits formula from the section below. Fibby 23:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

2.4 PTR spirit regen formula
I'm the author of RatingBuster, so naturally I started working on the formula the moment test servers went up too.

So after 6 hours of work, the new mana regen formula is a function of spi, int and level(class is no longer a parameter), the following data and formula is 100% accurate:

ManaRegen(SPI, INT, LEVEL) = (0.001+SPI*BASE_REGEN[LEVEL]*(INT^0.5))*5

Above are the results, and below is how I obtained the results:

1. After seeing the change in the patch notes, I knew I had to get the formula for RatingBuster to work in 2.4, so I downloaded/installed the test patch. Used WinMPQ to peek inside and see if I can find anything useful.

2. And there I found that the mana regen file that used to contain the coefficients of the spirit regen formula for different classes, was changed so that its now the same for all classes. But something else has changed too, the coefficients used to be the same for all levels, it is now different for each level. (for this step I used a program coded by myself for parsing)

3. No where in the files could I find anything about INT, that means there's work to be done on the test server. I logged on test server(sadly my copies are still pending...), made a couple dozen level 1s of different class race combinations. For each I recorded: INT, SPI, GetUnitManaRegenRateFromSpirit("player")

4. Raw data from the test server:

5. Observe the data. I see from data with the same INT, that REGEN_PER_SEC is linear with SPI.

6. The first thing you do after you see that some thing is linear is to figure out if there are any constants. By using those with the same INT but with different SPI, for example:

Calculate the constant = 3.811222864 - (3.811222864 - 3.049178196) / 5 * 25 = 0.001

7. Pre-process the data to remove SPI and the constant from the function for curve fitting. (1) X = REGEN_PER_SEC - 0.004 (2) regen/spi = X/SPI

8. Curve fitting. According to past experience, blizzard formulas are relatively simple, the result will not be too complecated, it should be "smooth" in curve fitting terms. My curve fitting routine tries to fit the data with some 10,000+ functions, and browsing through the results I see something really familiar. I saw a function a*x^0.5 with coefficient of a=0.0349649899816082 The coefficients for level 1 mana regen just happens to be 0.0349650010466576 So this is it.

9. The result: ManaRegen(SPI, INT, LEVEL) = (0.001+SPI*BASE_REGEN[LEVEL]*(INT^0.5))*5

10. Checking the formula with my data and it fits perfectly, 100% accurate.

Whitetooth 06:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Point 5 of reasoning is not accurate (in order to claim something is linear you need at least 3 points lying on the same line, whereas with the data at hand we never have more than 2 different points for any value of Int). However the resulting formula does fit the data absolutely precisely (up to round-off errors) which means it must be correct. I'll add it to the main page. Fibby 20:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, you are right, I thought I had posted 3 data points, but now I see 2 of them are the same :p. I have more data points at hand, but didn't post them because I thought I had posted enough. Whitetooth 05:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible for someone to make a calculator for those of us who suck at math. I am curious to see the regen rates for Not Casting & Mp5... something I could plug my stat numbers into and it spit out the regen number.


 * This might work for you: http://www.healcrafter.com/ Whitetooth 05:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I have an issue with the "rule of thumb" give on the main page for how much intellect and spirit change mp5 (the part that says "In practice it means that 1% increase in your Spirit will increase your mana regeneration by 1%, and 1% increase in your Intellect will raise your mp5 by 0.5%.")

From what I can tell, the amounts that mp5 changes by when holding one constant and changing the other depends on what that constant is. For example, using the formula Whitetooth generated, an increase of SPI by 1 will increase mp5 by .046635*INT^0.5. I have no idea where the 1%->1% rule came from, and I don't think it's accurate.

For reference, I also found that an increase of INT by 1 will increase mp5 by .0233175*SPI*INT^-0.5

Thoughts? --BKred 04:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I plugged a few values into the formula and found the following (at level 70 with an INT of 100):
 * 100->101 Spirit = +0.99% MP5
 * 500->505 Spirit = +0.99% MP5
 * 611->617 Spirit = +0.97% MP5


 * I think that there will be some deviation from the rule of thumb as you introduce WoW rounding errors, which you can see in the third case I listed. Without testing more values, I can't be sure how significant the error would be. If I get a chance later, I'll test the Int->MP5 formula. Slavakion 16:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * At level 70 with a SPI of 100:
 * 100->101 INT = +0.49% MP5
 * 234->236 INT = +0.42% MP5


 * Looks like the same case of deviation when rounding error comes into play. I'd say that it's good enough for a "rule of thumb". Slavakion 03:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This "rule of thumb" is basically Taylor series (up to linear term) around 1 which is 1 + x/2. Because of this you must calculate with percents _not_ actual values. And it's any good for "small" percents anyway.

Simplifying the formula?
Speaking of the spirit formula, I'd say that the term 0,001 in the equation is a rounding error and therefore irrelevant and should probably be thrown out in light of readability and simplicity. IE: In a 10 minute fight extra mana gained from that term is less than 1.


 * I would also say that the implementation of the 0.001-Term makes absolutely no sense from Blizzard's point-of-view and should be cut away by occam's razor. And even if it would exist in reality, it has no practical relevance. Without it the formula would be much easier to understand and to remember... Gilt 11:31, 17 July 2008 (CEST)


 * Just did it. Want to add that nobody calculates sqrt(int) (if its not a natural number) to such a precision that one actually sees the 0.001... Gilt (talk) 11:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't want to start an editwar, but the 0.001-Term absolutely ridiculus. With 100 Int and 100 Spi on Lvl 70 the sqrt(spi)*int*basereg-Term is 9.327, there is no reason why the term should really be there. Also on Level 1, Int 18, Spi 10 you have more than 1 reg/sec, even in this case you don't need to care about the 0.001. Not when you want to see how much your reg will be (there an easier formula would be more helpfull...), and even for "academic reasons" you also cant be sure that this is not an roundig error. So if you really want to keep this term, i would like to know why... Gilt (talk) 19:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And if you just want to say: "It's because the derivation of the formula gives this term...": When you look exactly on what Whitetooth did, you see that the constant in front of the squareroot-function he got by curve-fitting also is not exactly the base_reg we use now, but differs a little. Of course much less than 0.001, but it's a multiplicative constant, and if you plug some high-end values (just took the first nihilum-healer i got an rounded down) 500 spi 500 int, than the difference you get is also ~0.0003, which is about a third of this stupid 0.001-value and therefore (if 0.001 would be significant) also significant. But NOBODY (for good reasons) cares about this difference, so we also should not care about the 0.001! Gilt (talk) 05:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Cataclysm Changes to Spirit AND MP/5

 * This page is going to need some SERIOUS changes once Cataclysm is released. Perhaps we should create a section on it now in reference to MP/5 no longer existing in the new expansion, and its blending in with Spirit. Larsiam (talk) 20:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree the graphs are totally out of date, we should also add that sprit is now almost completely useless to warlocks nowSkyzod324 (talk) 03:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)