Template talk:Graphic novel

Image updated
Looks like MentalPower updated the image to:
 * [[Image:WoW Comic logo small3.png]]

Which works for me. -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 10:51 PM PST 16 Dec 2007

Image too specific
The icon for this template is too specific to the Sunwell manga. We should make a less specific one. -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 12:04 PM PST 8 Dec 2007
 * How's [[Image:Logo-wcmanga-small.png]] ? --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal  14:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That is very nice, but still pretty specific to the Sunwell Trilogy. Are there any other Warcraft manga? My statement above was sparked by seeing people use the graphic novel template on WoW Comic pages, so I made some WoW Comic specific templates and posted the note here. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 9:19 AM PST 11 Dec 2007
 * How is it specific to the Sunwell Trilogy? It merely uses the basic WC logo used for pretty much all products, just happens i used the sunwell trilogy logo to manipulate from.
 * The Sunwell Trilogy is the only currently released manga, but a new one has already been announced, titled Dragons of Outland. --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 18:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My argument was more using an image that says "Manga Series", but still use the name "graphic novel" as the template name. We should either find a new image for "graphic novel" which is more general than manga, or put the manga image on manga-named templates. Your image is definitely better than the previous one which was too Sunwell Trilogy-specific. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 2:18 PM PST 11 Dec 2007

Name
This shouldn't be called graphic novel, this should be called manga. "Graphic novel" is an over-arcing term (with it's application still being disputed), which really shouldn't be used to apply to a manga (you will notice that American manga publishers that have previously helped give this term popularity, have since gone back to using manga directly under the grouping of books for volumes and comics for issues instead). This template was designed for the manga initially, and at some point took the comic under it's wing too and was renamed. The comic has it's own template, so this should go back to manga and hence the above image proposal. Thoughts? -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 09:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Please make some templates using your image above like: manga, manga-section, manga-inline. We should update Templates, but leave graphic novel until it has been completely replaced. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 9:19 AM PST 11 Dec 2007
 * Prefer a bit more feedback before i take it upon myself to do that really :p Also prefer to simply move this template, as was done in the first place. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 18:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I would just "be bold" and at least change the graphic novel image to your new one. Anyone who is fixated on using the Sunwell Trilogy can complain here, but I doubt their arguments will be that convincing. Also, unless the whole "graphic novels" thing is clarified, I'd prefer a manga-specific set of templates. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 2:14 PM PST 11 Dec 2007
 * It used to be something to the effect of "manga;" Baggins made this much more overarcing (and appropriate, imo) template. Do what thou wilst, though. --Sky (talk | con | wh ) 02:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd prefer some kind of over arcing term for all the drawn art story content (there is actually quite a bit now, two manga series, and the DC comics). Adys was the one that suggested the "graphic novel" term, initially, and agreed that it was best to keep that kind of material together.Baggins 03:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Also I have a problem with the above graphic, it implies that all manga belong to the same series, however this is not the case. Each series is seperate. If the term "graphic novel" is such an issue perhaps "graphic story" would be better?Baggins 03:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed old graphic completely, as it doesn't fit, the original intent of this template. A new graphic that portrays the intent of this template as being for all graphic stories should be designed.Baggins 04:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't agree it should be be used for both. They're both seperate product types. Also still disagree with the term graphic novel, and any other such term designed to contain them both. But w/e.
 * As to my suggested image, warcraft is a series now, so the manga are part of the same series. Each trilogy is a seperate window into that series, for which their trilogy name is clearly used as a sub-series for clarifcation. So it's accurate enough for the context of the template. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 08:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually in Japan, mangas are also called 'komikku' from "comic". If one wanted to be truly nitpicky, the Warcraft manga is actually 'Manhwa' as it is from a Korean artist. Most websites and stores put comics and manga under the same categorization. As for the template name, "graphic novel" doesn't appear under the actual template itself. Its similar to the "novel" being used for novels and short stories. You know what? Manga and Manhwa both roughly translate out to, "comic" or "cartoon" So the arguement if "manga" and "comics" are different is a bit silly. Really the only thing different about them is sometimes you have to read manga's backwards.Baggins 08:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Let's see how Webster define's "Manga"; http://m-w.com/dictionary/manga


 * Main Entry: man·ga
 * Pronunciation: \ˈmäŋ-gə\
 * Function: noun
 * Etymology: Japanese, comic, cartoon, from man- involuntary, aimless + -ga picture
 * Date: circa 1951
 * a Japanese comic book or graphic novel

--Baggins 09:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I know all that already.
 * Doesn't change anything, they are stylistically completely different and are being released in completely different mediums. One is a comic released as a comic, the other is manga released as a book. As i said, graphic novel is a term publishers are throwing out the window now. Seperate on a medium if you prefer, but i'd consider that to be more problematic because the comic will likely be released as a book later on anyway. Currently, the comic is not what would typicall be called a graphic novel because that is limited to books.
 * Also, would be a good idea to use the typical comic/manga font for the logo as i did, letter-o-matic. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 09:11, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * "This article contains information taken from the Warcraft manga & comics which may not be found in other sources of lore.",


 * see it doesn't specifically mention "graphic novel" at all. The template name is only for ease of typing. Again if you can think of a better template name, that's short, and to the point, then all means we'll use it.


 * As for font, show us a version of the icon "Comics & Manga" icon using that letter-o-matic font please.Baggins 09:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I know it doesn't, i'm arguing agaisnt the naming of this template and the purpose of this template. Seperate issues. Also add that the manga uses the WC product logo, the comic uses the WoW product logo, so using them together doesn't make sense.
 * "I'm taking my ball, and i'm going home" - I don't wish to create an image containing both words as that makes me part of the "problem". Plus, because they use different logos, a single logo can not cover both of them. Someone else can do the image now ;p -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 09:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually the new manga series uses a different logo, if the preview page in Sunwell Trilogy Ultimate edition is an indication, not the same one in the Sunwell Trilogy. Its appears to be going back to the stand alone, Warcraft RPG/novel style logo (Warcraft by itself, with subtitle seperated). Note you might remember we have World of Warcraft RPG and Warcraft RPG both under the same template despite them being seperate games technically (with only a slight bit of adaptation to make the older game work in the new game).Baggins 10:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Two wrongs don't make a right ;)
 * As to the logo, i suspect that is not the final design, but even if it is, my point was more about the WC logo itself, which is what it uses. The WoW logo is vastly different and ultimately establishes a product as part of a seperate series specific to WoW rather than just WC as a whole. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul>  10:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing right or wrong here only opinions. I think this is better imo. In time I bet you the manga's will start utilizing the World of Warcraft logo just like the novels... To be honest I would prefer an image that says 'graphic' story without resorting to any "logos". Like we have done with the novel template (where we used the book of Medivh, lol).Baggins 10:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * And? The fact it's an opinion doesn't change what i said.
 * If the manga was going to use the WoW logo, it would have done already (It should have been from the start. the manga is as much about WoW as the comic is. But for w/e reason they've decided to not do that for the manga, they never have been consistant with it).
 * Thats what i was going to do that for the image actually, but the effort it required was more than i was willing until the template's purpose was restablished. As that doesn't look to be happening as i wished, i won't be doing so. -- <li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li><li style="display: inline;"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 10:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Category: Graphic novels
In my opinion, having this template linked to the category gives more problems than it solves. I would remove it, and leave it as Template:Novel.

For example, having to add |doc= to every single graphic novel character. It's annoying.

Opinions?--Lon-ami (talk) 18:42, December 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * Or we could make another one, so the images get automatically categorized...--Lon-ami (talk) 20:26, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok changes made, it will automatically add images into its category, but for articles it will not. For the category to work for normal articles you'll need to add .  22:25, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Great, thank you ;).--Lon-ami (talk) 10:19, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

What should be tagged with the category?
I'm wondering about this. Should the comic issues be tagged, too? I suppose that every single comic/manga and the series names should be categorized under graphic novels, but I would like to hear your opinion before starting to edit.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:41, January 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I see Coobra already tagged the Ashbringer issues. Guess he had no time to tag The Comic ones. Problem solved, then; Gotta tag them asap.
 * Still, if you have anything against it, post before reverting.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:49, January 3, 2010 (UTC)