Talk:Arator the Redeemer

Beta
Because I KNOW someone is going to question me on the validity of the article: http://picasaweb.google.com/alcaras.argentus/AlcarasAlpha1/photo#4984868511080120338 http://picasaweb.google.com/alcaras.argentus/AlcarasAlpha1/photo#4984859584507150354 http://picasaweb.google.com/alcaras.argentus/AlcarasAlpha1/photo#4984859669062483986 --Kakwakas 17:18, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

OK, the 2nd link is pretty clear about that but ... OMG Turalyon's son is a GAYLF !!! No way ! o.O But anyway we still need a better source.-- K )  (talk) 20:00, 13 October 2006 (EDT)


 * We need to find more people in the BC beta... --Kakwakas 20:05, 13 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I think this'll be a job for our friend Xmuskrat if he agrees.-- K )  (talk) 20:08, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

So, Arator was already alive during the aftermath of the Second War, meaning that he would have to have been born either during the First War or just prior to the second, which means that Turalyon and Alleria would have had a relationship (or liason, or whatever) before the First War. Just to check if I've got the timeline right. --Ragestorm 20:38, 19 December 2006 (EST)

It didn't have to be before the First War, unless there is more specific information of whether Arator was an infant or a child when his parents went through the Portal after the Second War.--Zexx 15:37, 4 January 2007 (EST)


 * True. Though you can't usually tell with half-elves, he's probably in his twenties.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:55, 4 January 2007 (EST)


 * Well I only caught his conversation with Danath briefly but it seemed implied that he has never met his father.Baggins 18:54, 13 January 2007 (EST)


 * When you talk to Arator, he specifically tells you that he was an infant when Turalyon and Alleria went through the Dark Portal. So it's possible he was born either at the end of War2, or between War2 and War2X.--Cybaster 00:07, 28 July 2007 (EST)

Heritage
Why are Arator's eyes green? If he is half (high)-elven, wouldn't they be blue? Or is there a reason? -- Baeldun


 * Actually, High Elves can have green eyes too. The Ranger Scouting icon from Warcraft 2 reveals as much. --Paulus 19:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a good question actually- if he still has green eyes now (that's a beta picture), I guess he became part of the Sin'dorei movement. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:38, 2 February 2007 (EST)


 * If he's a part of the Sin'Dorei, wouldn't he be allied with the Horde in Thrallmar rather than the Alliance in Honor Hold? -- 07:31, 3 February 2007 (EST)


 * He might have begun the conversion, but left Quel'Thalas before or because of their induction into the Horde. Or, they could fix his model and give him blue eyes. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 09:19, 3 February 2007 (EST)


 * Or, it could be plot relevant since his storyline has yet to be fully revealed. mr. peasant, 00.24, 4 February 2007 (GMT)


 * Does anyone remember that Turalyon also had glowy eyes himself? I guess because of his paladin powers. In any case, it is possible that that glowiness (which could be green, I can't remember) passed on to his son. Or, it could be that Arator is loyal to the Blood Elf cause, but prefers Alliance over Horde. --Andrelvis 17:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * When you talk to Arator, he specifically tells you that he was an infant when Turalyon and Alleria went through the Dark Portal. So it's possible he was born either at the end of War2, or between War2 and War2X.--Cybaster 00:07, 28 July 2007 (EST)


 * I'd like to remove the "oversight," phrase about Arator's green eyes. I present the following argumenst as evidence that he at -least- started the Blood Elf conversion.
 * There are blue-eyed models in the game. I doubt Blizzard would overlook this.
 * He is a paladin. As far as I recall, there were no High Elf Paladins, ever, and only the Blood Elves have become Blood Knights. (Which would place his departure from the movement roughly a few months prior to the Portal opening, perhaps even -when- the Portal opened, hoping to find his parents, as that is more important to him than Quel'thalas and the "Pilgrimage.")


 * Can I get an answer from Ragestorm on this, so we don't have an edit war? --Yaki 14:54, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * One reversion isn't quite an edit war. Now then... Slightly inaccurate to assume that there were no high elf paladins just because they've not been seen (we didn't see female dwarves, trolls or tauren unwil WoW). Therefore, we can't assume that he's a Blood Knight and not a normal paladin- especially given who his father is. As for Blizzard overlooking it, you've got a good point- this isn't the sort of thing that would be overlooked. Interestingly, this is what I was trying to say at the beginning, but someone shot it down. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ragestorm, I think it's a bit preposterous to suggest Arator's ever been loyal to the Blood elves' cause. As far as the game suggests, he's been living with the Humans for twelve years, waiting with the Alliance until the reopening of the portal.-- K )  (talk) 16:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You fiddle with it, then. I believe that it still rates a mention. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:56, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I meant, I didn't want to end up going back forth with removing / reverting. But that is a good point. Although, I just can't imagine an Elvish paladin for the most part. Even as High Elves, they didn't seem a paladin-y type. The only units I remember even being remotely melee are the basic footmen class they had in WC3:TFT and on the defensive from the Scourge in RoC.


 * And not that I doubt you, Kirochi, but where does it say he's been living with the Humans for that long? I've only been to Hellfire for maybe five minutes at most on Alliance side. --Yaki 23:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, his father was a Human, his mother was an over-loyal Alliance member, he survived Quel'thalas' raiding and Dalaran's destruction as well, he was trained as a Paladin by the Alliance... Can't see why he'd have been hanging around with the High Elves, let alone Blood Elves. That would mean he left the Alliance and then joined them back, even dropping the Horde (that means, the only 'trustworthy' Blood Elves) BEs? Being a Paladin?-- K )  (talk) 17:03, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say its a game mechanic in WoW that high elves have blue eyes and blood elves have green eyes. Lorewise high elves have more than just "blue eyes", some also have green eyes (natural pigments), though not the "fel" glowy type of the blood elves. Whereas its said that most if not all blood elves have "green eyes", according to monster guide.Baggins 17:21, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "As far as I recall, there were no High Elf Paladins, ever"


 * Actually there are/were high elf paladins according to the RPG, they are just rare.Baggins 17:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The Blood-elf model has to be just another of Blizzard's shortcuts to work less hard... There is no such thing as a half-bloodelf-half-human, not after TBC that's for sure. I do think it's funny though that being a loyal member of the alliance, his Aunt is Sylvanas Windrunner, leader of the Forsaken 'o_O.--Artex 16:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The explanation (second one anyway) discussed the matter like in a high elf point of view, but Arator is a half elf, not a high elf. (Marakanis 00:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Artex, it's not funny that he's the nephew of a Horde leader, what's funny is that Sylvanas has become a Horde leader in the first place, knowing what her life had always been.-- K )  (talk) 14:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Abritrary break 1
Well I noticed that discussion on green eyes on this page went outside of lore again. I've went back, given it the speculation tag, and also gave citations that green eyed half-elves are rather a normal & explained occurance according to lore. I've also given lore that denies any of the speculation pointing to "magical addiction" which half-elves do not have, or "feeding on fel energy" which half-elves do not have to do. Half-elves never had a reliance on the Sunwell like their parents. As most lived in human society rather than elven society, they tended to avoid the issues caused by addiction to the Sunwell's powers. That, and their human side prevented the same kind of addiction.Baggins 19:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * However, I still think the discussion has gone too far as far as lore knowledge of half-elves is concerned. We could probably just reduce it down to the lore quote, and leave it at that, and avoid all the irrelevent, and off-topic "magic addiction" comments.Baggins 19:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I decided to excise the pointless and mundane speculation(and quite a bit off topic as well)) about his eyes, and reduce the discussion down to one quote that sums everything concisely. "He has green eyes like his mother, Alleria". I hope this problem never arise again, and I really don't want to see silly arguements like that again.Baggins 22:54, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Vereesa and Rhonin
In the book The Well of Eternity, Rhonin goes on record saying that no one has ever recorded the birth of a half elf half human. This is somewhat bizzaire as their nephew is one. Arator looks very much like an elf. It could be that Alleria never told anyone who his father was, the elves would have certainly been hostile to a half human in their midst.--Darkling235 01:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as Vereesa and Rhonin know, Alleria and Turalyon are dead. The sisters haven't spoken since before Alleria went through the Dark Portal. -- 14:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea but Aratorn was living on THIS side of the portal. Danath hasn't seen him in ten years (or something like that) so he must have been born before the portal was shut. He was likely left in Quelthalas. So Alleria and her sisters were still in contact when he was born.--Darkling235 01:28, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A continuity error, most likely. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:05, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * As far as I can remember, he didn't say it was the first birth of a half-elf, but the first time there ever was half-elf twins. -Rovdyr (talk) 09:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

In the novelization of "Beyond the Dark Portal", it was implied that Turalyon and Alleria had an intimate relationship during the 2nd war(during the "Tides of Darkness" period), but had separated, and not really in a relationship during the incursion into the portal to Draenor. Alleria might have given birth to Arator in secret, without the knowledge of most people(the records of Dalaran, for example),thus, Rhonin might not have known about his nephew,and made such a statement. His wife Alleria might though, since the sisters were very close right? or it might be possible blizzard made a mistake, somewhat, since they generally give free reign to the writers.--Agus101186 (talk) 19:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, it wasn't implied, it was explicitly stated in lurid detail. A detail like this is likely something the writers were instructed to or were given permission to not address. My guess is that Blizzard hadn't decided on the best way to deal with Arator when the book was written, and left it unanswered. It's also stated that they only spent the one night together, so Arator would have to be the result of that coupling, and Alleria had ample time to give birth, but curiously didn't mention it. Or he was actually born in OUtland, but that isn't likely. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The comment in Well of Eternity is quite bizarre in the fact that according to the rpg, half-elves had existed in recorded history for at least several centuries. There have been several named half-elves all of which are adults at the time Rhonin made his comment, one of the most famous being the possible daughter of Admiral Proudmoore. Also in Sunwell Trilogy it appears that half-elves are well known at the time the story takes place, enough that they are looked down upon by blood elves. It pretty much ignores Rhonin's comment in War of the Ancients. In anycase Brann had been recording the existence of half-elves for a long time before Rhonin ever made his comment (chronologically speaking).


 * I suppose one possibility is that half-elves didn't exist until Rhonin screwed up the timeline. From his perpective his children were the first ones, although in the new timeline they were actually pretty common.Baggins (talk) 04:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That... Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Yeah, I know, you can never know all the effects of time travel etc. etc. but that seems to be stretching things a bit. In fact, I'm pretty sure there were half-elf characters in existence well before Well of Eternity was written (though I could be wrong about this). Chances are it was a mistake on Knaak's part, or that he meant the birth itself had never been witnessed (since unless I'm mistaken, the elf has always been the mother, and in most cases the child was a bastard/secret/whatever and the birth could have just always happened in Quel'thalas away from humans). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'd personally go with Knaack screwed up... I never liked the time travel idea to begin with (he shouldn't have touched time travel)... Though I think your right, the half-elf history started out in the rpg well before Well of Eternity was written. As for who could be the mother of half-elves the lore has never been specific other than to say, that half-elves can come from human and high elf, human and half-elf or two half-elves.Baggins (talk) 09:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Unique Voice!?
Did Arator recently get a unique voice!? or has it always been as it is now? last time i talked to him was way back in TBC launch so can really remember what it was then Valnar (talk) 13:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Eye Retcon
Apparently, Our half-elf friend has gotten a minor makeover in 3.1. He now sports blue eyes like other high elves. --Blayaden (talk) 14:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Those still look like green eyes to me, they're just not glowing...-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Ragestorm, incase you haven't noticed, lots of high elf eyes look like they're "green and not glowing".

Silver Covenant Guardian mages, some of those elves at Quel'tanil Lodge...look at their eyes. They look the same as Arator's. Sooo...your statement is more or less moot =/ Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 16:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to say he still had Blood elf eyes, I'm trying to say that his eyes don't look blue. I'm well aware of the fact that high elves often have green eyes, having been part of the original discussion over Arator's eyes last year!-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Lol, aight. Thought that was what you were implying, sooo... <.< Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, by "blue" I meant the same "blue" that other high elves have. :P Current picture is from wowhead (where I found it out). I'll head to hellfire and take more pictures for better proof.--Blayaden (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Not nessesary. Everybody gets what was meant. Rage was just pointing out a technacility. ;) 18:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Or that my eyes need examining, an interpretation I'm favoring...-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:28, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't say this is a retcon at all. I would say it's a correction. There's no reason to ever think he was a Blood Elf. --DerSquirrel (talk) 02:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Woa! By no means did I suggest he was a blood elf before!  He is clearly stated in-game to be a half elf; the retcon was that they changed him from having green eyes like a blood elf, to blue eyes like a high elf.  I guess correction would be a better word.  Sorry if I caused any confusion!--Blayaden (talk) 02:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The downside of typing and the internet...no one ever knows what you really mean. 02:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess I misinterpreted what you said, too, then. I guess it was using "retcon" to describe it that bugged me.  To me, a retcon would be that he no longer mentions any connection to Turalyon and/or Alleria.  --DerSquirrel (talk) 05:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

whats the purpose of giving him new eyes when we are out of outland and in Northrend?--Maelstrong 22:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * So that it fits lore...or maybe for new players that have never played in Outland or have just played Horde characters and then start an Alliance character doesn't get confused. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 23:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Beats the heck out of me. Changing Rhonin's hair color when they did made a lot more sense.  Maybe they figure all the new Deathknights will be running into him?  People are always making new characters.--Blayaden (talk) 14:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)