Talk:Half-elf

Half elves do to little in lore to get their own catagory. Besides their not even creative.

"Though they likely have too small a population or joined their blood elven cousins."

Actually they are looked down upon by Blood Elves, and High Elves both due to their half-breed nature. If they couldn't be accepted by elven race to begin with they aren't likely to be accepted by them later. Let's avoid speculation, please. Yes they do have a large enough population to start a small nation, or at least neutral settlements. They just want land to call their own, they aren't looking to start an empire.Baggins 11:23, 8 May 2006 (EDT)

Dungeons and Dragons Origin
- The information below is non-canon because it was taken from a Dungeons and Dragons-derived source with only a minimal understanding of the Warcraft Universe. In the Dungeons and Dragons universe, Elves are a fair, magical, and effeminate race. Blizzard chose to think outside the box and paint the Elves as a bold people with differing physical characteristics. The description of the physical characteristics of Elves does not correspond to the Night Elves or the Blood Elves. Also, in the Dungeons and Dragons setting, half-Elves are common whereas in the actual WoW game they are not. The three century life span also shows the surface understanding of Wizards of the Coast. In WoW, the Elves age as mortals do since they lost the Well of Eternity. -- User:TopDread 01:33, 14 May 2006 (EDT)


 * That is your opinion(you have right to that opinion), and its duely noted. However it has not been stated by blizzard and must be left out of the topic to maintain Neutral Point of View. The RPG warning is in place to warn people who may choose to ignore the RPG. Also age of elves has not been established in the game. 300 year life span is still "mortal", as mortality is death no matter the life span. The novels have never said that High elves are not common. Going by the game is a bad sense of scale as well based on the fact that the world is only the size of a small town in the middle california, its incredibly unrealistic world(you don't see every character that was ever established in other games and novels in that world), nor do you see every character or location that shows up in the spinoff literature.

However according to metzen;

"We're taking the process of building a world seriously and it wasn't just churned out. It had a strong sense of continuity. We've always tried to do that with are ancillary products like the D&D line and our novels. We are kind of painstakenly anal, about making sure all the details add up, that continuity is held to be sacred. So that no matter in what medium you are experiencing warcraft it all feels like a contiguous experiance.'" -Chris Metzen, World of Warcraft, Behind the Scenes DVD.

...Baggins 01:38, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

They just implemented half elves do to lazyness. They just wanted to use a lame race that already existed in DnD so used Half elves. Here are half breeds that are more likely to see but don't exist.

Half Forest Troll/High Elf-Trolls and Elves have fought for a long time and with fighting comes rape. That and they at least have a common ancestor.


 * Half Goblin/gnome
 * Half Goblin/Orc
 * Half goblin/Dwarf
 * Half goblin/troll
 * Half goblin/ogre
 * Half goblin/human-Goblins have a lot of time to mingle with other races in their goblin towns and are not very discrimnatory

Half Human/Dwarf-Much much more likely because Humans have a better relationship with Dwarves then elves. The only reason why they don't use this is people consider Dwarves Fugly.

Half Orc/high(or blood)elf-Fel Orcs might have done this when they attacked Quel'thalas.

Half orc/Darkspear troll-Orcs and darkspear trolls seem to get along pretty well so why not?

Half Gnome/Dwarf-They seem pretty friendly together and their cities are close by.

--Angry ogre


 * Well in Lands of Conflict there is mention of a human character Jesi Falrevare who might have a bit of "dwarven blood" from distant relatives. Beyond that Half-elves existed in the novels before the RPG was ever released.Baggins 00:45, 10 December 2006 (EST)

This is an old arguement, but I'd like to point out some important facts to anyone who comes in and reads this discussion later on.

1. Half-elves have norse mythology origin, and was mentioned and utilized by Tolkien in the Lord of the Rings (The most famous being Elrond Halfelven). So any claims that the concept "originated" from DnD is blatantly flaud.

2. Half-elves were in the novels, long before the RPG. The RPG just decided to further explain half-elves mentioned in the novels. The concept of half-elves exists outside the novels & RPG, and now exists in manga and even in The Burning Crusade.Baggins 13:48, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Elven is a separate language from Thalassian?
Seriously? Can this be cited or something? Why's it called elven and used by half-elves? --Kinst 21:28, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Its mentioned as used by a half-elf in manual of monsters, alongside Thalassian in the same book. Secondly its listed alongside darnassian as a seperate language in the Mount Hyjal section of Lands of Mystery, which also lists Thalassian as a seperate language in the same book.Baggins 21:49, 14 November 2006 (EST)


 * Alright. I see you're citing it. It seems really odd to me though. Like really, really odd. >_> --Kinst 23:15, 14 November 2006 (EST)


 * It's not only odd, it is outdated. "Elven" has been mentioned in one of the earlier sourcebooks of the PnP, but the Alliance Players Guide states that half elves speak Thalassian. The "elven" language has been removed completely in terms of the roleplaying game, so there's no need of keeping it here. Tulon 01:50, 17 January 2007


 * No source specifically states that all Half-elves speak elven. Although there is a half-elf that knows it. About the only thing we know about elf languages is that there are 4 main dialects/languages according Cycle of Hatred. although no mentino of what the names of each of these languages is called. The only other info we have about Elven is that its a native language of Mount Hyjal, along with Darnassian, but not specifially what race speaks it. So nothing is specifically outdated. Not unless they bring up the character who spoke it, and then say that character didn't know "elven" in a future source.


 * Also COT has stated that there are "four elven dialects", which fits with the four "elven" languages/dialects that have been named in lore so far, Elven, Thalassian, Darnassian, Nazja (Sindassi would have been a fifth language/dialect but it never officially became part of lore).Baggins 21:14, 16 January 2007 (EST)

The question is how/why would the character in Cycle of Hatred know Nazja? Saimdusan 23:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Its hinted that sailors learned of Nazja on the wind while sailing ships. They could have learned of it that way. There were a few other individual characters that have learned it as well, according to the RPG. Also with increased influx of naga in the last 5-6 years its conceivable that people have learned naga through encounters with the race, possibly having captured some of them.Baggins 15:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Contradictions
"The idea of "planetary cross-breeding" is disturbing since a cat cannot have kittens/puppies with a dog. Biologically, a cross-breed is impossible due to the difference between races." I removed that chunk of text. It doesn't refer to anything at all (what does planetary cross-breeding have to do with humans and elves?), and the existance of half-orcs pretty much proves it wrong anyway. Oh, and while I'm at it, the RPG books are trustworthy. It's just that Blizz doesn't care what it retcons, and some people put in things from MoM Appendix 3. --Kakwakas 19:49, 16 December 2006 (EST)


 * Discussion also here: User_talk:Kirkburn -- Kirkburn  (talk) 13:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Kalec's Image
I've put up Kalec's image, as it is the only image of what a half-elf is apparently supposed to look like. He is said to be in the form of a half-elf according to Sunwell Trilogy: Ghostlands, 2007.Baggins 16:38, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

But earlier on (in the first comic) it is implied that he is pretending to be human! And even if he is pretending to be a half-elf, he still isn't a half-elf. Why not put dragon images on the Gnome, Human and High Elf articles as well? Saimdusan 23:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He can because he's an administrator Mr.X8 00:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No, he can because there are no other good images of half-elves. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually point of note, the books never state he was in "human' form. In the manga's prologue/review sections, Kalec went from being "humanoid" (not human actually) in the second book, to "half-elf" (in the third). However in the comic itself, it never actually stated what form he was in specifically until the third book. Infact there is an unclear reference to him being in "elf" form in the first book. If you read it after you know he was in half-elf form a comment Kalecogos makes in the first book actually makes more sense. He states,


 * "they must not see elves often here, we stand out...Well, with this neck ring, I'm stuck like this. That means that the sooner we find this borel, the better"


 * That obviously only makes sense if you know he is actually in half-elf form, and is stuck that way, and can't take a human form, because of the neck ring.


 * Btw, it probably should be pointed out that in the ultimate edition those prologue/review sections are removed, so there is no unclear refererences to "humanoid" to confuse people. Again I state, that the books never once said that kalec was in "human" form as far as I recall, only, "elves, humanoid, and half-elf" forms.Baggins 17:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

"Alliance Races"
This artwork by Chris Metzen was created for the original Warcraft RPG sourcebook, and apparently was drawn to represent the playable "Alliance" races covered in the book (a similar piece of artwork was drawn for the "Horde Races" covered in the book). Since its not likely that any of the three alliance elf types, would be covered more than once in the artwork, when there is only one example for each of the other races, then the picture must have a half-elf in it. The second to the left is the most likely option, since her ears are rather short compared to the other two elves in the picture.Baggins 13:48, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

The image of the sorcerer from the same book, also appears to be a half-elf, and shares the same shortened ears as the female in Chris Metzen's artwork.Baggins 23:03, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

The 'horde races' one has two orcs... but anyway, I do think she is half-elf. But I don't think the wizard is. And it was a wizard, not sorcerer. I think he has too much facial hair to look very elven... Saimdusan 23:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The "horde races" is one "orc" and one "half-orc", a tauren, and a goblin. The one on left actually is much smaller than the one on the right, a bit shorter, and has less defined orcish features (much as half-orcs are described in the book). As for the magic-using "sorcerer"/"wizard" he has short "half-elf" ears, he's obviously not human (a human fighter is to his far left in the picture), and he's not a high elf (a high elf is standing next to him on his right). Also how can you tell its a "wizard" over the "sorcerer", what makes you think its a wizard? To be honest its not very clear in the picture, and only inscriptions in the text seem to imply what the high elf character is (see below on nature of wizards and high elves). Its easy to tell that the he and the high elf either represent the sorcerer or the wizard, but its near impossible to tell which is which.


 * Granted there doesn't appear to be any order to the picture just that it relates somehow to, "barbarian, fighter, rogue, sorcerer, and wizard" articles (that is the order of the articles). The picture appears to go, fighter (human), barbarian (tauren), rogue (goblin), half-elf, high elf (the last two classes as mentioned are pretty unclear, unless you look at one more hint mentioned in the text).


 * The hint that may be showing that the high elf is representing the "wizard" rather than the "sorcerer" is the additional information the book points out that a night-elf "wizard" would become physically a "high-elf", amd a night-elf "sorcerer" would still look like a night elf physically (this would imply that the obviously high-elf character in the picture is the "wizard" as he is physically different than a night elf).


 * I agree, metzen's high elf, appears to have too much hair, at least compared to most high elves we have seen. But its not innacurate, as we know that they can have facial hair, and some of the oldest high elves have full beards.Baggins 00:46, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

(Its obvious that Turalyon never touched the other elves the same way as Alleria.]
This is totally irrelevant... Saimdusan 23:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone doesn't have a "sense of humor", ;). It was an easter egg.Baggins 00:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Racial Leader
i dont think Magistrate Randalvarr has enought power so he could be listed as racial leader Noobi666 (talk) 15:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, it does say "presumed"- but as presumptions are starting to be removed, go ahead and remove it. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 15:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)