Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider/Archive1

Picture: Kael'thas in Draenor
So...why the kael'thas image i posted was removed ??i mean,that IS Kael'thas,its pretty easy to see that.there's no way one could mistake him for a Spellbreaker.Eduardomsc 10:34,16 January 2007(gmt-4)

Retrieved from "http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Kael%27thas_Sunstrider"

Umm, that is totally NOT Kael'thas, that's just some random Spellbreaker (and Kael isn't a Spellbreaker). --Adonzo 23:34, 6 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I've removed that picture. --Aeleas 23:55, 6 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Guys i have a picture of the New kael'thas artwork, but i'm not sure if i should post it or not. Actually i have 2, one with the main 3 bosses from the expansion: Vashj, Kael'thas and Illidan and another one of just Kael'thas. Do you guys think i should update the picture with the new one ? --Pulyx 09:23, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


 * If the image was obtained through the beta or through an officially published book, then post it, by all means, but don't put it in the infobox just yet. If it was obtained from anything other than the beta or a published work, do not. --Ragestorm 10:39, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Actually, that one where shows illidan,kael and vashj was published (don't know if blizzard considers it officially published) in that myspace page where the Artist who made the illidan statue showed the process of the making of that statue (here http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/caresaboutcreature/wow/illidan.jpg). The first image on the page there was a new piece of Illidan Artwork. But i didn't show the whole image, just Illidan, cutting out Kael'thas and Vashj. But know that i think of it, if we were to post it in the article, it wouldn't be in the Kael'thas article but in Illidan's. --Pulyx 12:14, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

A MySpace page is not considered published in any way, shape, or form. Published means "appears in a book," officially liscensed, with the proceeds divided between the author, publisher and Blizzard. While that image is certainly liscened, I don't think it's wose to post it until we have confirmation that it's bee officially released in a book or some such. Do not post.--Ragestorm 11:20, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, it was featured in WoW.com. I thought maybe blizzard authorized. Looking at the image i can see they "erased" kael'thas, but left one of his fel-orbs slip. --Pulyx 12:24, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


 * [www.worldofwarcraft.com] is authorized. The image may be posted (on Illidan), provided the link to its place on the WoW site is shown first. --Ragestorm 11:29, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

dungeon location
anyone know which wing of tmepest keep kael is in? all it says is taht hes in tempest keep, but it doesnt say which. my guess is the lvl 70-72 one, but some confirmation would be nice. --Late Leo 20:09, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Kael is in the Eye. Maxisfreak315 02:59, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Thoughts on Cleanup
Some of the comments made on Talk:Arthas Menethil would apply to this page regarding it's length; in my opinion it could be much more concise in recounting the events of Warcraft III. The excess links also need to be removed; only the first occurrence of a name should be linked.--Aeleas 23:55, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Beloved King of the blood elves
We all know that there has been some serious leakage from the Burning Crusade Alpha. One such leakage is the "cinematic narration" of the two new races (you can find it at the bottom of this thread). According to this narration, Kael'Thas is now the blood elves's "beloved King". We can wait for an "official" confirmation, but I thought it was worthwile to post it here right away. --DarthMuffin 15:41, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, we know most of the blood elves revere Kael in different ways, so most of them would think of him as a "beloved king." He is technically, not the king legally, as he is not in Silvermoon and was not approved by the usual advisors (who are probably dead). It's more than possible he is regarded as the king. --Ragestorm 15:59, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * We should not see this as if "most" blood elves think of him as the king; it's the official narration that says so. We should obviously wait to see the game, but if the introduction officially calls him King, I think it's safe to assume that he is.--DarthMuffin 08:42, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I doubt it makes much of a difference if Kael is the prince or the king of the Blood Elves. My point was that he is not king by the conventions set by the government of Quel'thalas, etc. (which wouldn't matter anyway, as they're now blood elves). I could list modern-day earth situations, but you are correct- we should just wait, perhaps a note saying he is de facto king, and not say anything definete until offical confirmation. --Ragestorm 09:10, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * We should go by however he is referred to on the website and in-game. I feel it's just a figure of speech. -- Kirkburn 09:51, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Motion carried then. --Ragestorm 11:03, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * The narration I've heard says "their beloved prince", not king.--Aeleas 13:08, 13 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, I heard King.-- K )  (talk) 14:42, 14 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Just to "tie the knot", the latest narration (in the Beta) says "Prince". I guess they changed it back perhaps for the reasons mentionned by Ragestorm, though I personally doubt that they looked in details like the advisors of Silvermoon (I would say they concluded it would be confusing for some people).  Anyway, an earlier version definitely said "King", but it's back to "Prince" now.--DarthMuffin 22:42, 18 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Erm, are you sure that it's changed? It must've been changed shortly after the original narration was recorded, because the narrator died a short while back.  Anyway, Kael'thas also refers to himself as 'king' in a note you intercept for a quest. --Kakwakas 02:36, 19 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, I'm not in the Beta myself, but in all the videos that came out when the Beta started, the narration says "Prince". And it's kind of normal for Kael to think of himself as a king, given his ego.  Do you have more info on that note though?  There's some talk around the blood elf article about why the playable BEs will eventually seek to kill Kael; that note might contain interesting info.--DarthMuffin 23:23, 20 October 2006 (EDT)
 * And by the way, someone added "Prince of the Blood Elves and King of Quel'Thalas" under the picture. Again, I must ask if this is official...?  I doubt Ragestorm would approve =0 --DarthMuffin 13:33, 21 October 2006 (EDT)


 * That was me, after I had heard "king". And Ragestorm all the more approved this (or, at least, he didn't change this when he edited the infobox).-- K )  (talk) 16:08, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

Ragestorm will remove it. Honestly, I didn't notice it. I'll leave "king of Quel'thalas (uncrowned)". --Ragestorm 16:21, 21 October 2006 (EDT)


 * The Blizzard website on the history of the blood elves does mention that Kael'thas is "the true heir to the throne." However, even when he returned from Dalaran in Warcraft III: Frozen Throne, he was still referred to as "Prince" Kael'thas. King Kael'thas does sound odd. "Prince of the Blood Elves, King of Quel'thalas" sounds about right, because he'll most likely never be referred to as anything but Prince Kael'thas. You can come up with some lore reasons for this, too, but none are really supported. One hypothesis would be that he refused the crown because he wanted to recognize the unjustness of the murder of so many, that they should not be dead and therefore he would leave their authority vacant in honor of them. 23:37, 31 October 2006 (EST)


 * Kael'thas refers to himself as king in note you pick up for a quest in Bloodmyst Isle as a draenei. Screenshot --Kakwakas 23:53, 22 November 2006 (EST)


 * "The blue skinned mongrels" ? "Velen will pay for his crimes" ? This guy's gone utterly mad now.-- K )  (talk) 03:38, 23 November 2006 (EST)


 * And that finally answers why Horde blood elves can kill him in Tempest Keep. Even though they're sapping a naaru and using those creepy green crystal things, they don't want to serve a king who's gone completely mad. --Ragestorm 09:59, 23 November 2006 (EST)

So, yeah, are we switching over to King Kael'thas? --Kakwakas 23:07, 25 November 2006 (EST)


 * Not until the release, if at all.--Ragestorm 09:46, 26 November 2006 (EST)


 * Ok, now I'm coming up with a question. How the heck do we know he's not crowned ? He'd been able to travel from Tempest Keep to Quel'thalas recently, no ? So why would he not have been crowned ? And what's the big deal ? If the BE see him as a King, then we have to accept it. I think that the lore Blizzard releases doesn't tell us everything, but it hints it very well.-- K )  (talk) 13:03, 13 December 2006 (EST)

Indeed it would seem like he has been crowned king of Quel'thalas and all the world's Blood Elves. According to the lore-master Xarantaur (he who has contacts with Metzen himself) that is the case at least. We can await the release of BC before we edit, but as fast as we get it confirmed I vote we do it right away.--Odolwa 19:14, 13 December 2006 (EST)


 * Kael'thas has never been crowned King of Quel'thalas, which formality requires the sanction of the Conclave of Silvermoon, and that body has not been convened since Arthas laid waste to Silvermoon. He is represented in Q'T by his Regent Lord.   In Outland, he has apparantly taken the style "Sun King", but seems not to have any intention of returning to Quel'Thalas at all.  As far as the Blood Elves in Q'T are concerned, he is still their Prince, not their king. -- Jubaal


 * Lets wait until we have something to cite in or out of game instead of going off of a Prophet of Metzen. 10:06, 14 December 2006 (EST)

Kael'thas Sunstrider :: The great interogation dot - ???
-Firelord- Things are getting strange... I need your help toanswer this question... How can Kael would be able to be a racial leader, beloved by the Blood Elf if some of them will fight him and kill him in the new instance, the Tempest Keep? I really need your opinnion on that. Cause in my head I see a group of Blood Elf comming at Kael and saying "Look! Our beloved king!!" and then I see them killing him. It look strange...---Firelord- 12:02, 25 November 2006 (EST)


 * Sign your posts, please. This isn't final, but this is my theory:
 * What the Thalassian Blood Elves know of Kael is propaganda pepetuated by Magister whatever-his-name-is. Once they see how he's consorted with Illidan and how far he's gone, they're likely to be almost as disgusted with him as the High Elves are with them.
 * Don't have a breakdown over it; you'll find out soon enough how it works. --Ragestorm 23:03, 22 November 2006 (EST)


 * It's simply that he isn't a racial leader anymore. It's just a title he still wears, thinking none can contest his legitimacy.-- K )  (talk) 13:30, 25 November 2006 (EST)


 * If it helps, just think of him as being in control of the 'Dark Blood Elves,' in a treasonous role just like Rend Blackhand and the Dark Horde. Qii 10:11, 14 December 2006 (EST)

It's a real mystery to me. In Warcraft III, Kael'thas wasn't evil in any way. He was the contrary, fighting back the evil forces of the Scourge and liberating Outland from the Burning Legion. I won't accept Kael'thas and his Blood Elves being "evil" until I get a sensible explaination. Has something strange happened between Warcraft III and WoW?--Odolwa 18:40, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * Aye, in between the two games he's been gorging on mana and demonic energy, and that doesn't usually do good things to a person. I guess you could see him now, at least from what I've figured out from various quests, as a junkie that is pretty much only concerned about his fix.  He no longer seems to care about his people (aside from using them to make sure he gets his fix).  He's willing to risk Outland and all its inhabitants to get more mana (the Netherstorm could blow at any time, and his mana forges aren't helping things) and he's also willing to work with the legion to operate (and to build, I think it was said in one quest) said mana forges.


 * So, basically, Kael'thas was good at the start. He was trying to save his people.  But his allying with Illidan started a snowball effect that has left him pretty warped. -- Maenos 12:48, 14 December 2006 (EST)

I don't agree about Kael'thas not caring for his own people. Why else would he send the captured naaru to Quel'thalas? If he had actually become selfish, he would had kept it for himself .--Odolwa 20:13, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * I agree that Kael is evil by circumstance. To quote Wicked! the Musical, some people have wickedness thrust upon them (I know, corny as heck, bit it works). As for being selfish, that isn't true, it's just that he's come to think of Illidan's methods as being the best for his people, and thus doesn't accept other opinions. --Ragestorm 14:17, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * I thought he would care for his own people too, but as one BE NPC told me a few days ago, he's pretty much resorting to trying to draw the Horde-BE to him to bolster his forces, especially after the loss he took with the Scryers defecting. He doesn't seem to care much for his people anymore.  As for the Naaru, he sent them M'uru a while ago (he had just come into control of Tempest Keep, hadn't built the mana forges, hadn't sided with the Legion, etc). -- Maenos 16:10, 14 December (EST)

Wait a minute, where does it say that Kael'thas is siding with Kil'jaeden's Burning Legion? Illidan and his allies are a faction of their own, that aren't part of the Legion.--Odolwa 23:01, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * WHERE? I'll purge immediately.--Ragestorm 17:04, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * It's revealed in a questline in TBC. Um...if you want, I'll remove it from this talk-page (as far as I know, it hasn't been put up anywhere here on the wiki.  I haven't edited it in, anyway).  I figured it was ok to mention it as countless other TBC things have been talked about.  I'll also gladly put up a spoiler warning on my comment above, if you wish. --Maenos 20:17, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * No, I meant where in the article is it said Kael serves the Legion? he serves Illidan, who counts as a separate faction. --Ragestorm 23:20, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * Oh, oh, ok. It's nowhere in the article as of yet.  Just some recent information I came across in the Netherstorm a few days ago. -- Maenos 23:22, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * Feel free to send any lore-related information my way- don't worry about spoilers, my parents say I went rotten years ago. ;-P--Ragestorm 23:24, 14 December 2006 (EST)

Spoilers moved to User_Talk:Ragestorm.


 * Good gods, man use a spoiler template! you'll give our censors heart attacks!;-P--Ragestorm 00:05, 15 December 2006 (EST)'


 * Er...whoops. Sorry, not thinking straight tonight. Will from now on!  Oh, and should I edit in spoiler warnings for my earlier posts as well or move them to your talk page?   --Maenos 00:06, 15 December 2006 (EST)


 * The previous posts here aren't a problem, they're fine- any major spoilers (like those) should be posted on my talk page.--Ragestorm 10:37, 15 December 2006 (EST)

New Artwork added
hey guys, i'm adding Kael'thas' Artwork from TBC, since various images released on the same pack are all through wow wiki and no one saw a problem, i'm adding this one as well. Hope you guys will dig it. cause it's AWESOME. --Pulyx 18:53, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * Notice the similarities between him and the post Blood elf on the BC site. I would prefer the artist used the same model as the one released for TFT, but artists are tempramental. Excellent pic! Just don't put it in the infobox.--Ragestorm 16:58, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * The Artist who is doing is Wang Wei (who's name is BLIZZARD in chinese apparently) he's damn good. he has a Deviant Art Page, here: http://blizzardart.deviantart.com/ --Pulyx 20:19, 14 December 2006 (EST)


 * The guy has no affiliation with Blizzard Entertainment. Should you really use fanart for a wiki? I mean, it seems like you should stick to official art, not fan interpretations. Suzaku 06:26, 3 January 2007 (EST)

It's not fanart, it appears in official sources. If we're not certain that it's official, but it's damn good, we'll post it, but not use it in the infobox. In this case, the image in the infobox is the best avaliable anyway, so nothing changes it. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 11:04, 3 January 2007 (EST)


 * What's the official source it came from? The guy said he doesn't work for Blizzard, and it's just his pen name, so I'm curious. Is it from the image with Illidan and Vashj mentioned earlier? Doesn't look the same. The weird thing is that the shoulder armor doesn't actually match Kael's in either his WC3 or WoW appearances. Suzaku 19:06, 7 January 2007 (EST)

Lore vs. Tactics
What about making two pages, a la Kel'Thuzad, one for lore and one for tactics? -- T inker  er  16:24, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I agree, though personally I think, main article should link to the lore, and Kael'thas Sunstrider (tactics) for example, should be fore gameplay. Since in the long run there is more lore than there is tactics.Baggins 16:28, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Guys, one talk page will do for this discussion.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 16:46, 23 December 2006 (EST)

New Artwork NOT Kael'thas
At least, it isn't anymore, if it ever was.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/insider/11/collectors.xml

It's Varanis Bitterstar, a new Hero character and Blood Elf Mage in the card game.Suzaku 00:35, 16 January 2007 (EST)


 * Ok cool. I didn't knew. For me, the only one who had the fel orbs floating around was kael'thas. But it is official art. --Pulyx 08:46, 20 January 2007 (EST) But it is official art.

Alliance with the Burning Legion
I was browsing some quests at wowhead and came accross this one. Basically, it appears that Kael'thas has decided that Illidan had gone nuts and that an alliance with the Legion would be more profitable. Of course, this is comming second hand. But as more and more people are slowly making their way to level 70, someone should be able to confirm the quest, and therefore this important piece of lore. The later quests in the chain are about gaining evidence of this, and it seems to set the stage for Horde/blood elf raids on Kael himself. --DarthMuffin 19:23, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Your dedication is appreciated. This was brought to our attention some months ago, and we are indeed waiting for intel from users who have completed the relevant quests. Once you can quote the source adequately, feel free to add. This would indeed explain why the Horde's blood elves cna kill Kael'thas.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:27, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Well, the last setting we know from WCIII was that Kael'thas serves Illidan who is a servant of kiljaeden who is/was the Master of the Lich-king who commands the source.I presume that the Silvermoon Bloodelfs wouldn't cheer if they figure out that he indirectly helps the enemy. --Urgat

We now know that Illidan is not in Kil'jaeden's good graces, and that Kael is directly making overtures to the Legion. Hence, why the Horde's blood elves have no problem raiding Kael. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:53, 29 January 2007 (EST)


 * First I wanna thank people for allowing me to post POV stuff on the talk pages, which isn't how it always is with a wiki site. I just am amazed and disappointed that Kael could be so stupid. I guess the character has been pretty much destroyed; he went from being an enemy of the Scourge and good guy and hapless victim of circumstance (not to mention a character I thought was pretty cool), to this. I cannot understand how he could change so much. What happened to make him this way, to drive him insane? People don't just wake up one day and suddenly lose their minds and their ethics. Just...wow. I cannot believe he's sworn fealty to the Legion even given all he knows about them. He's seen how Illidan's a marked nelf after failing Kil'jaeden, he knows exactly what happened to Ner'zhul, and he still chooses to make himself vulnerable to them by being their servant. That...is...NUTS. And Urgat, he isn't "indirectly" helping the Legion, he's practically grabbing his ankles for them.--Illidan Rocks 16:14, 5 February 2007 (EST)


 * And I'd like to tell you how sick I am of people just throwing their comments whereever they want: new comments always go at the bottom of the standing discussion.
 * On-topic, I guess Kael just snapped (or was Decieved). And even if he weren't helping the Legion directly, Kil'jaeden always collects.-_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:28, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Regarding Illidan Rocks' comment on Kael'thas, I think he is a victim of circumstance. If you recall, Kael'thas swore fealty to Illidan. Illidan however aligned himself with Kil'jaeden but later failed his master. This made Illidan and all who followed him targets of Kil'jaeden's wrath. So, in order to save himself and those loyal to him, Kael'thas had little choice but to distance himself from Illidan and to 're-ally' himself with Kil'jaeden to prove his worth and hence get on the demon's good graces. If he didn't, he would still be a target of Kil'jaeden, having worked with Illidan at the time of the night elf's failure. mr. peasant 22.54, 5 February 2007 (GMT)


 * I agree that the move seems politically motivated, but there's more at work here. There's a very strong slant in the blood elf noob quests toward the idea of "Wretched-ness" -- becoming consumed by your magic addiction -- and I have a feeling the theme is being repeated in Kael's plotline. If he is indeed insane, the insanity is most likely due to his magical addiction. On the other hand, he might be making a smart survival move. I think it's most likely a mix of the two, Kil'jaedon probably taking advantage of that addiction... some Deceiving going on... and that we'll see the true Kael when we face him in Tempest Keep. 20:27, 5 February 2007 (EST)

"And I'd like to tell you how sick I am of people just throwing their comments whereever they want: new comments always go at the bottom of the standing discussion."

Wow. Sorry Ragestorm, you could've just asked nicely.

Since I first found this site, I've always seen people put their replies to comments right under the comment that they're replying to, and that made sense to me, so I did it. It makes less sense if, for example, I say something about Ner'zhul on the "Lich King" talk page, then the next three people commenting talk about Arthas, and the next person to make a comment replies to what I originally said about Ner'zhul by placing their reply below the most recent comment about Arthas. It makes more sense for their reply to go directly below what I said about Ner'zhul, below and a bit to the right.

But if it's that big of a deal, I'll stop doing it that way.--Illidan Rocks 22:42, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * I've never agreed with that habit (ruins the flow of the page), especially since there's an annoying trend that my comments are the ones that get pushed down. I was also running on pure adrenaline at that point, so I was very close to snapping. Sorry. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:06, 7 February 2007 (EST)

From what I have heard, and come to have collected, is that even this alliance with the Burning Legion is a ruse. Like Illidan before him, Kael is simply using the Legion as a means to harnass the powers of Tempest Keep, and seems to be fully aware of what's happening to Netherstorm. If he succeds, he seems to plan to wipe out all opposition on Outland in one final cataclysm, with only those on Tempest Keep the only ones to survive. Once done, Kael plans to turn on the remaining Demons inside the Keep, drain them to sate the Blood Elves addiction, then use his gathered power to shift Tempest Keep to Quel'thals, thus coming back with more power then ever before. With it he will likely rally his forces and wipe out all the other factions on Azeroth. There's also talks of him trying to off Kil'Jaden to become the head of the Burning Legion himself, at least that's the theory anyway. In any case it's something to think about, Kael's allegiance is only truly to himself... -OtherHalfofYang


 * Two things to say here. First, apology accepted, Ragestorm. Anybody who knows me in-game or in real life knows that I'm not the most patient person myself, so I am in no position to judge you for it. Secondly, even if Kael is planning to double-cross the Legion I still don't think it's a good idea, because if he fails he'll wind up like Ner'zhul or worse. Kael used to be a decent guy whose allegiance was to his people, not just himself. He would never think of genocide on the scale theorized by OtherHalfofYang. So it appears to me that regardless of Kael's intentions, he has sunk lower than I ever would have expected him to.--Illidan Rocks 03:41, 25 February 2007 (EST)


 * I agree, and do find this odd, as Illidan would not be pleased. "Power at high cost" is his motto, not the "Power at ANY cost" that seems to guide Kael's hand now. Either the student has surpassed the master, or Vashj (who first ingrained the philosophy in him) has had some wider effects.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:10, 25 February 2007 (EST)

Well, one could argue in a sense, that this is still for his people, sort of... No think about it, he comes back the almighty hero with his big new shiny toy, more powerful then ever before, and BOOM!!! He'll have the technology, all the magic in the world (plus a vial of eternity water), and power to wipe out all of the enemies of the Blood Elves. If he wasn't simply using the pilgrims that are coming to worship him as nothing more then cannon-fooder to secure his holdings until he's done, you could say it's simply a more extreme way of saving his people if that's the case. Sure, he's taking that whole ends justify the means thing a bit to an extreme, but I'm really just trying to play devil's advocate here, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the Eye-OtherHalfofYang


 * Illidan promised to sate the Blood Elves' hunger for magic. While he didn't exactly sate it, he gave them a source of magic to draw from. And that is the power of demons. Who is closely affiliated with the demons? The Burning Legion. I really think that Kael'thas would've done this for power more than anything else. Sure enough, the survival of himself and his race would've been strong in his mind but he would not have refused the nearly unlimited power Kil'Jaedan might have offered him. I'm sure that learning of Illidan's insanity wouldn't have made Kael'thas very confident in his leader. Illidanrocks, you keep saying that Kael'thas' character is ruined now. I can understand why some people would feel this way, but I think he's better than ever. When I learned that he'd allied himself with the Burning Legion I was upset that we might see him die in Tempest Keep. Right now, I'd rather see Kael'thas escape death than Illidan. I know I seem to really be rooting for Illidan's death, after some previous posts I've made, but I've never really seen him the same after he went "mad". For Kael'thas, however, this could be just the beginning.--Maarz 08 March 2007

Hmmmm, you know I just noted this, but the Scryers aren't the only ones to have discovered Kael's unholy alliance with the Legion. I remember that there is also an Aldor Questline leading up to the same thing, even causing one of their members to leave because he was disgusted the Sha'tar would still let the Scryers join them after this, or something like that...-OtherHalfofYang

Insanity
Do we really need that section? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:43, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * A speculation section seems not to be too aggressive towards lore, even if it's generally a noob that puts his ideas without asking that creates it. I guess that's the balance for restricting some privileges to well-known users. Maybe remove it and place it on the talk page.-- K )  (talk) 15:26, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * I'm just getting a bit bored insanity sections on so many Lore char pages (don't forget the Great Arthas Incident last year). Curiously, the only one confirmed to possibly be insane (Illidan) lacks such a section. Especially since most of these characters are only insane for the purposes of dramatic dialogue.
 * Also, while alleigance with demons is ill-advised, it is not a mark of insanity. Even if it were, we don't need a section on it.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:51, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * Other than his alliance with the Burning Legion and the King comment, do we have any other evidence of possible insanity? The section is vague on specifics and seems to map Illidan's or Arthas's process of going nuts onto Kael (brooding, racist sentiments, delusions of grandeur). 20:32, 5 February 2007 (EST)


 * I don't think so. Even for Arthas or Illidan, those arguments are weak.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:47, 5 February

2007 (EST)

Deleted info
So...why the kael'thas information i added was removed??? -- Mardook


 * Images of unreleased content are not allowed. Also, the section you added was speculation, not a spoiler, and it needs a source. 13:49, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Ok... why did you decided that it was unreleased content. So can yiu return the section I added and change "spoiler" to "speculation"? --


 * Wait until Ragestorm has had his say - he's head Bookkeeper. 14:15, 11 February 2007 (EST)


 * My say: the section reads like an explanation to his alliance with the Legion- it sounds more like the sort of thing one of his followers would say than something concrete. If these are confirmed as being his intentions (by an NPC who doesn't work for him), then that can go somewhere else in the article. It should be noted, however, that he is still a villain.
 * And that image has been confirmed as datamined and removed several times. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:05, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Kael'thas Sunstrider (tactics)
I suggest we create another article (similar to the way we have Kel'Thuzad and Kel'Thuzad (tactics)) called Kael'thas (tactics) where the boss list can live. Once people start to take him on, we can add information to that page as well. 09:25, 17 February 2007 (EST)


 * Of course. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 09:38, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Thalassian name
I assume 'Quel'belore' is a correct translation of 'Sunstrider', 'Quel' meaning 'high' and 'belore' meaning 'sun'. The French translation for Suntrider is 'Haut-Soleil', in English 'Highsun'.-- K )  (talk) 10:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * "Sunstrider" means "he who walks the day," don't ask me why. It's not clear whether it's Thalassian or Darnassian. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The name Sunstrider is Darnassian, and predates the high elven society and the language of Thalassian, as it was originally a surname within the Highborne class. I'm not sure why they translated his name that way in French, but "Sunstrider" comes from the two English words, "sun", and "strider" (walker), which is officially translated as "He who walks in the day".


 * Following the standard grammar with surnames, it is presented in the English language, rather than Darnassian. Bala'belore is the best guess I can come up with at the moment, but it's in no way official, of course. Belore means sun, and Bal'a Dash possibly means "Traveler". Nethermancer Sepethrea utters "Anu... Bala belore... alon..." (or some such) as she dies. It's possible that she's mentioning him. I guess. Suzaku 05:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, Suzaku! I'm impressed! oO Thanks for everything, along with Ragestorm.-- K )  (talk) 06:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Strangely though "Sundstrider" is the official "Darnassian" word, that is the word is already in Darnassian and has no need to be translated into other Darnassian "synonyms". Go figure, who understand's blizzard's 'logic'? In anycase it seems to follow Blizzard's language explanation for surnames. Apparently every night elven surname is the exact "Darnassian" term (even if it looks like its written in english);


 * Surnames are indicative of the family line and often date back millenia.


 * Moonblade, Glaivestorm, Proudstrider, Oakwalker, Nightwing, Staghorn. Baggins 09:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Dalarani Resistance?
Kael's position as "Leader of the Dalarani Resistance" should, I think, be removed. First, when Kael was part of the resistance, he always served under Garithos. Second, we have no basis to assume that Finnall's resistance is the same entity. Indeed, they could well have existed at the same time. - Parqual Fintalas


 * While I question Garithos (he lead the entire Lordaeron resistance, while Kael led the Dalarani faction), you have a point about Finnall's organization. Also, we'd appreciate it if you signed you posts properly (with four tildes, ~ ~ ~ ~). -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Destroying the Legion from Within?

 * Moved to Analysis subpage (see above).

Status
I'd much rather list as "killable" than "defeatable," as that amounts to spoilers (after all, he appears to die, doesn't he?). Any thoughts? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know since he "doesn't actually die" killable seems akward. Ya I agree its kind of a spoiler, but its also innacurate to say he can be "killed" :p.Baggins 03:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Since he's the only character to behave like this (excluding faction leaders), I guess we improvise. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think someone said Kel'thuzad has a similar outcome with his phylactery but not sure...Baggins


 * Kel'Thuzad isn't confirmed as such, and anyway, he's still undead. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya how does one kill that which is already dead, ;)Baggins


 * I think a more suitable word would be one that says "able to be fought" or "able to be encountered". Can't think if the word even exists though. We rarely ever know for sure if any of the boss we killed are really dead (unless we take their heads as trophies). Is Ragnaros dead?, is C'thun? or just merely banished? It's not certain. Raze 03:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya its implied in Shadows and Light and other sourcebooks that Ragnaros and other Elementals are never truly defeated just banished back to the Elemental Plane.Baggins 03:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The closest word in the english language might be "Assailable", not sure if the meaning is clear tho. Anyway here's the relevant text regarding the fate of KT. Raze 03:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe you could just say "alive in Tempest Keep" and leave the rest up to opinion based on who's reading it? He may well become killable later on at some point. Aladara 20:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Everything could become killable later on at some point :p... If we took that route we might as mark everything killable... Another option is "beatable".Baggins


 * This is true... why not use his own words against him and say "beaten but alive"? =D Aladara 19:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Defeat: Dialogue updated
I was in Shattrath tonight when Kael was taken out on my server. I ran into the center to watch the cut scene, and I was REALLY surprised to see that they added new dialogue to the speech he gives - I went ahead and put it on the main page. I do have a screenshot to prove it if necessary and will be happy to provide. - Aladara 04:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and uploaded it just in case, you can find it on my discussion page. - Aladara 04:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

if Kael indeed dies permenantely then i guess either Lor'themar becomes king ,some other elves would demand leadership and make a civil war .....or maybe a lost relative of his will appear,remember the random name for blood mages in warcraft3 Eldin Sunstrider?Well maybe he'll make an entrance into the game after all (in the lore at least)after all remember the random name for demon hunters Shadowsong,the name appeared before The War of the Ancients (version in which Jarod Shadowsong sppears)so you may never know maybe the'll change the rulling dinasty make them Windruners (Sylvos Windruner) I for one would expect anything (Marakanis 22:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC))

Retrieved from "http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Kael%27thas_Sunstrider/Analysis"

you asked: "However, there is no clue on how he managed to survive the players' assault." you can find the answer here: "http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11007" the verdent sphere is dropped by kael him self. - StrangeWisp


 * Oh, that part wasn't my work - I simply added the text about Kil'jaeden. Thanks for the info though, I hadn't seen that before! - Aladara 12:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Completly unloyal to his people
This is pretty confusing. In the Sunwell plateau instance,it has been revealed that Kael blows his chance on restoring the sunwell,while lying to his followers,actually planning to revive Kil'jaeden. He's fallen so much since Warcraft 3. Zarnks 05:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he has. But really, he was falling even before he met Illidan. He needed his magic, and Illidan showed him the way, while also allowing himself to be manipulated. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree with this statement... he realized that he and his people were addicted to magic, and was terrified that the remaining elves would die if he didn't figure something out. That's why he left Quel'thalas in the first place, as I understand it - to try and find a cure for the addiction. - Aladara 21:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

But at that point he wanted it to save his people and cure them of their magic addiction. Now he's decided summoning Kil'jaeden, is more important then saving his people which was his only reason for allying with Illidan in the first place. Zarnks 06:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * True. But it wasn't long before Illidan showed him that he could use demonic magic just as well as arcane magic. And that, I think, is what triggered the fall from the heights. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The demonic power corrupted him - in my mind, it eventually wound up killing "Kael" and left whatever we've got now. Originally he was described as caring and compassionate, and all through WC3 we see how deeply he cares for his people and how pure desperation drove him to do the things he ended up doing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions... - Aladara 21:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

He fell at that point but he still loved his people then. Zarnks 06:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Aye, I think so. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Kil'jaeden created the Lich King, and it was because of the Lich King that many of Kael'thas' kinsmen were killed, which made him rename his people "Blood Elves". And now he is gonna summon the very demonlord who is responsible for this?! Where does that make sense? --Odolwa 11:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't have to when you're insane, whether from magic addiction or other reasons. :P --Sky (t · c · w) 21:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at his dialouge during the battle at Tempest Keep. Somewhere in that warped twisted mind of his he has some love for his homeland.  He thinks he's doing all this for Quel'thalas.  He's obviously lost it.  My main interrest is, what will this do to Blood Elf Politics as we know them?  We aren't entirely sure Kael will be there, but it will be obviouse to Quel'Thalas that there is a problem. Meneldir
 * That's my question as well... and my personal thoughts are that Lor'themar is going to *freak*. I'm not sure what his relationship to Kael is, but I'd imagine that they're fairly close friends if Kael appointed him regent of his beloved Quel'thalas in his absence. So, in light of that... it should be interesting. My guess is that Lor'themar will renounce Kael and probably keep the throne unless another Sunstrider pops up somewhere... does Kael have any sibs? - Aladara 01:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I think he's the last of the Sunstrider line Zarnks 01:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow, a ton of parallels between this guy and Arthas when you think about it. --Raze 02:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * They're both princes
 * Their names end in "Thas"
 * They both love their respective kingdoms
 * They were both celebrated heroes of their kingdom
 * They both became agents of their greatest enemy
 * They both loved Jaina


 * anything else? I wonder how much of this was intentional, or simple laziness. --Raze 02:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Well I hope he doesn't become like Arthas,in fact i find it kind of great for him appearing at the Sunwell ,what if he sees what he's doing when he reaches 2% hit points?Maybe he'll actually help the players in fighting Kil,ok if this happens he may die but still at least he will die as a hero of Quel'Thalas.......something to think about(Marakanis)


 * Grom Hellscream with pointy ears and a big, tacky robe? That would be kind of neat... --Super Bhaal 18:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Grom already had pointy ears. I always suspected he would become the anti-Arthas,he wields Flamestrike the perfect counterpart to Frostmourne. Zarnks 02:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, Grom's ears weren't pointy to the point of gouging somebody's eyes out...elf ears in Warcraft are just scary.  :/  But yeah, I can see where you're coming from.  Frost, Fire/loev Scourge, haet Scourge.  --Super Bhaal 02:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * While that would indeed be awesome, we never saw a hint of Flamestrike in The Eye... I'm betting it will be a legendary drop off of him in the Sunwell Plateau. As much as I love Kael, I don't see redemption in his future... it would be like Blizzard saying "Oh never mind!", and they don't have a history of doing that (re: Illidan). - Aladara 03:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, I'm not so sure that the campain in TFT did enough to show Kael's decent into madness. We could see how he wound up with the Illidari, but how does he go from enslaving demons to serving them?  It's not hard to imagine how he was corrupted, but this seems to be an odd direction for that corruption to go.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, he seems like his predecessor, Azshara, a deified monarch who betrays the people to demons.
 * However, another idea has popped into my head. Maybe he is still all about dominating demons, he just realized that Illidan was crazy and he needed to cut ties with him.  He's bringing Kil'Jaeden to Quel'thalas, and in doing so weakening him temporarily.  Perhaps this is the plan, that Kil'Jaeden is weakened and killed, making Kael the new leader of the Legion, and making all the demons a slave to his people.  I have no idea if he's that high up into the legion.  However, if you listen to his dialogue (such as saying "For Quel'Thals" when he dies) it's obvious he still loves his homeland and his people in some warp twisted way.  So bringing Kil'Jaeden there makes little sense, unless he's planning to betray him.  Will this redeem him, not really.  Enslaving demons is only slightly better than serving them.  But it fits with Blood Elven philosophy.  It's a crazy farfetched idea, I'll admit, but it's in my head and won't go away.  Please feel free to tear it apart. Meneldir


 * I think it's a good theory... and you're right, he does still love his homeland and his people - and I believe it's honest. I still think and will continue to think until Blizz says otherwise that Kael did what he did with his peoples best interest at heart... maybe he still believes that Kil'jaeden can help them. Unfortunately at this point we don't know much about what's going on in that pretty head of his... - Aladara 01:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think kael is that high up in the legion,but still the other part of your theory makes sense from my point of view,actually i wouldn't be that surprised if he planed this all along and helps the raid against Kil'jaeden,ok i think he would die but still at least he would die redeemed like a herofor Silvermoon,or he'll realize what he's doing almost too late and will desperately help the raid,anyway you have it he may still be redeemed(Marakanis)


 * Also a good theory, but he would have to be a *damn* good actor to make that work... I'd like to see him redeemed, but like I said, I'm afraid it just won't happen. - Aladara 01:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually Marakanis Kael'thas is now Kil'Jaedens right hand man. Leviathon 00:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it I think you are right Leviathon.  Kil'Jaeden's luitenant was originally Tichondrias, who was killed by Illidan, who was than recruited by Kil'jaeden. Now it seems that since he answered directly to Kil'Jaeden, Illidan took Tichondrias' place.  Working off that assumption, Illidan went rogue and Kael started working for Kil'Jaeden.  So the question is, did Kael take Illidan's place?  If so, Kael is in the perfect posistion to make that sort of coup on Kil'Jaeden.  If not, than the likelihood of Kael trying to rule the legion with this attack goes down.  I might also again add that betraying Kil'Jaeden for power for himself and his people doesn't necessarily redeem him, it just makes him less weak.  Meneldir

Well i sure hope he will be redeemed or if he wont be redeemed then at least i hope some lost relative will appear to rule the elves.Anyway this should be interesting.......BTW is there in the RPG anything mentioned about his equipment beside Flamstrike,Verdant Sphere,Sunstrider Bow or his Plate?Maybe his runeblades abilities(if Brann discovered anything about this)(Marakanis)


 * Blizzard has said Hunters will be getting a legendary before WotLK so I would imagine Kael would drop the bow. Of course the bow was said to be given to Sylvanas but they could just undo that. Leviathon 17:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

If the bow will be the epic weapon for hunters then that doesn't mean Kael will drop it.He gave Sylvanas the bow and if he retrieved it he may have given it to one of his remaining lieutanents,so he doesn't naturally have to die so his bow to be looted.And anyway nobody said his bow will be the legendary for hunters.In fact i would expect should the bow drop from someone the player to return it to Sylvanas.......maybe receive a legendary bow as a reward?(Marakanis)


 * The whole Sylvanas is a horde leader part would prevent that. Leviathon 00:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Horde could get a reward from Sylvanas and the alliance from Tyrande or something.That's my 2 cents(Marakanis)


 * I can't see Tyrande giving two...nevermind about Kael. It'd probably be Jaina to care more, and give out the quest and/or rewards.  --Super Bhaal 16:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Whatever something like that.......or a neutral NPC could give a reward if you return the bow to him so he can put it to good use.....perhaps a Naaru?(Marakanis)