Talk:Instance Grouping Guide/Archive01

Druids
Druids have a group heal. :) Tranquility

Puller
Also, the warrior should be the puller for perfect aggro managment. --Zhann

I've found its more important that the puller be experienced and level headed. If that's also the tank, bonus! But if not, go with the most experienced player to choose targets. A good tank can easily take aggro off the puller (Taunt for the pull, Demoralizing Shout for the adds).

A more complicated arrangement is for the group leader to call out targets and for the tank to pull those targets. Helps if the leader has some way to mark the target (Hunter's Mark, Detect Magic). This can be useful when an experienced player playing a class inappropriate to pulling (clothie or Paladin) is leading an inexperienced party. --Xwrn

Healign disagreement
I happen to disagree strongly with one sentence in the Healer section; in one of the last paragraphs: "If you find yourself Flash Healing, it's another good sign that you've let things get out of hand. In a well-run group, you'll almost never need to use Flash Heal."

As a "veteran" priest I try to use Flash Heal exclusively. Its poor mana efficiency is more than well matched by it's much lower threat creation. A Greater Heal during battle is as bad or worse than shielding at the same time. Any time I need to use Greater Heals on my tank during battle to save mana, I definately feel a wipe coming.

This is not to say I disagree with the statements above that sentence regarding Renew. Renew is also mana inefficient, but similar to Flash Heal, its threat creation (basically nil) more than makes up for that fact.

I should say that I haven't experienced any of the end-game instances, BRD, BRS, etc. However, I can't imagine healing getting any easier. If renew is all you need to keep your party healed why wouldn't they always pick a druid over the priest? Rejuv is slightly better at the same level and comes with a class with lots of utility.

Mind Flay
A minor note of dissent about Mind Flay: Many times in an instance you will be fighting single mobs at a time with limited chances of having adds. In that situation, it is of course permissible for a priest to use mind flay, especially if that priest can also cast Vampiric Embrace so that the Mind Flay also heals. It's pretty useless to have an entire party member who just sits on his thumbs for 70% of the instance. However, the priest should always keep plenty of mana in reserve just in case there is an unexpected add, as well as to ensure that he doesn't need to drink after an easy fight. He should never "spam" Mind Flay. And of course, the above is situational: in some instances, adds are a constant danger and no fight is a sure thing. In the right situation, though, a priest who is more than a heal-bot can help to speed up the run significantly. Brymulder 20:05, 31 Jan 2005 (EST)

All on one mob
The "All on one mob" call is the bane of every priests life. To be honest, if you have a tank who is managing aggro, that's fine, but usually he's not, or at least not perfectly. There are plenty of circumstances where a more appropriate strategy is "All melee chars on different mobs" or "Tanks on elites, damage dealers on zergs". A couple of heals nearly always pulls a couple of mobs off anything other than a perfect tank. Spreading out the pull so that the tank takes on the toughest mob and that one is killed last is a pretty good strategy for making it all the way through an instance in one piece. --Phaedo

I moved this from the main page because I feel this is bad advice. While one must remain flexible and change targets to deal with different situations, spreading out all your melee characters on different mobs, as a rule, is just diluting your firepower. Mobs do the same amount of damage at 10% health as at 100% so its better to kill one and move onto the next than to all whittle away at one target.

Also the above advice seems to stem from grouping with bad tanks and healers. Healers should not be firing off aggro-causing DHs. A good tank should be able to regain control if the mobs go after a squishie. I know I can. Maybe I'm the perfect tank. :)

I do agree that non-tank melee characters (such as rogues) can help the tank out by handling runners, low health mobs (for example, the parrots in Deadmines) and anything attacking the squishies that the tank doesn't notice. But with the player's natural tendencies to split up I feel its bad to encourage them to do so in an instancing tutorial. --Xwrn

Main assist
Something that I find missing in the guide is the role of the main assist.

Also, the bit about a shadow priest not being as good a healer as a restoration druid I find questionable. The numbers crunch to be right about the same. If a priest is just hitting flash heal over and over that is correct but if he is using the heal/greater/lesser. It's not so true. Esp if the priest has any kind of points put into the holy tree. -- almighty

Maul
Maul actually does seem to have a large amount of aggro on top of the small amount of extra damage it does (like heroic strike). It's actually considered to be one of the abilities that makes druid tanking possible. Restoration druids are also more efficient than shadow/disc priests, even if the priest is using heal/greater heal. If the priest gets the right talents in the holy tree, then it's possible for a shadow/holy priest to have a slightly greater efficiency on Greater Heal compared to the druid's Healing Touch. At level 60, it's about 3.2 health per mana with a restoration druid's Healing Touch and 3.4 health per mana for a holy priest's Greater Heal. It all boils down to Flash Heal. Druids have no spammable flash heal, so it makes healing in a bad group much more difficult for a druid of any spec. -- Decimus

Added Class Tips: Warrior --Vrisch

Contradiction
A minor contradiction: "The most important party member to keep alive is you, the healer. Don't be a hero, you can't heal anyone if dead." vs "What you need to know to assist the Tank: If you're a Healer, know the Tank's health bar better than your own." -- Atolmazel

Blessing of Sanctuary on Tanks
In the Paladin section about Warrior buffs, I think it should probably mention that Sanctuary is not good for Warriors who are tanking because, although it reduces damage recieved it also reduces rage generation in the process. Damage reduction is why the Tank is wearing armor. Might will make them do more damage and generate more rage, and Kings will give them more HP, more damage, more crit, more block, more dodge, (did I forget some?).

The 'What Warriors want you to know' section specifically says not to put damage reduction buffs on warrior tanks.

Am I right or am I confused about damage reduction on Tanks? --Dga

Damage reduction up to a point is a good thing. Obviously, you don't want a warrior in cloth armor with no shield "because it gets me more rage!" but at the same time you don't want a warrior who is so well defended that he doesn't have any rage to generate aggro with. You need a happy medium between the two, so you might consider choosing a blessing based on how well your tank/healer is equipped and what problems they have. Sanctuary is nice if your tank is taking too much damage overall (healers running out of mana). Might is probably best if they have trouble holding aggro (more damage and rage). Kings is an excellent all around choice that will slightly improve their health pool, damage, and migitation. My0p1c 22:50, 16 August 2006 (EDT)

It cannot possibly be overstated how much it sucks to be the one person dead at the end of a boss fight. Firevalkyrie 12:51, 3 Dec 2005 (EST)