Talk:Broken

Silverside, please do not post rumors as a fact ;) Until Blizzard announces the new race, everything is a rumor. Jeoh 13:37, 9 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Never heard no rumor - don't even play WoW anymore. Was just browsing gamespy for e3 coverage to update the wikis with the info, and noticed an article describing the new races as blue and scaly with illithid-like tenticles on the mouth, and being as big as tauren - then, a moment later, I was browsing my RSS aggregator and noticed the changes to the Burning Crusade page, I looked at the Broken page, and sure 'nuff fit the description I had read. Damn, and here I was all excited that I was the first one to have made the connection )= The Mentor 18:27, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

Inferior
I dont know who put that in the topic but even blizzard seems to imply that its true.

"mutated into lesser forms"

Blizzard says that they mutated into lesser forms... Lesser is definitely not the same as being "same", or "greater" form. Is blizzard being racist? Though perhaps inferior should be replaced with "Lesser forms".Baggins 15:42, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

My Lord will people stop thinking Illidan serves the Burning Legion right now, Burning Crusade Website states his enemies are the new Lich King and the Burning Legion. Leave the man alone!!-OtherHalfofYang

err... were'd Illidan enter the discussion? And BLizzard is stating what counts as a general fact- the Broken and the Lost Ones are "lesser" as they appear to have turned from the Naaru and the mission of light, and have mutated into forms that carry no hint of the Draenei's powerful heritage. Just how does a company that creates ten playable races be racist, anyway? ;-D --Ragestorm 15:58, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

Illidan controls the Broken Ones. Play TFT. Remember? Akama. Their still loyal to Illidan. I was really confused about em. Of course Illidan HAS FAILED THE BURNING LEGION. He now acts independentally!!!!!


 * Sign your posts, and Akama isn't actually loyal to Illidan.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:18, 15 January 2007 (EST)

Update Needed
I don't really feel like doing it right now, but does anyone want to rewrite the article so it fits with the latest Broken shaman semi-retcon? --Kakwakas 15:23, 30 July 2006 (EDT)


 * That's not a retcon, it's a calculated plot twist. --Ragestorm 12:51, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

Females..
Neither here nor of the Lost Ones are any clear females (don't ask how I know that, you should know. And if you don't, ask your Biology teacher). Draenei do have them, erm, clearly. I wonder if all draenei, male or female, end up looking the same, mutated? --Tinkerer 10:21, 29 October 2006 (EST)


 * It's possible that there are no outward differences. It's also possible that the the Broken and Lost Ones are asexual. It's also possible that we just haven't seen female Broken, like we never saw female Trolls until WoW. --Ragestorm 15:25, 29 October 2006 (EST)


 * There's a very primitive female broken model. It consists pretty much of half a body sans the head and is entirely black. They three-fingered hands, double knees and look pretty much exactly like a male broken, except for a distincly female upper body. They are missing the back tentacles though. Kaluu 21:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Kum'isha the Collector I think, contrary to the article, was said to be female.-- 21:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Er... The broken models are (rather clearly, looking at the animations), based off the male and female tauren models. The "unfinished female broken" is literally nothing more then the body of the female tauren model. The reason it is unfinished is that, for the most part, when making a 3d model of something symmetric, you, of course, only make half and then mirror the rest, so you see the half that would be the base. Also, why bother starting from scratch when you already have a model that works? Blizzard is infamous for this: see Rexxar and the Male Orc model, Akama and the male Tauren model, or the seven different variations of the two-headed giant dog model. It's probably worth editing out the note at the bottom of the page. Uncreative 31 June 2007 (UTC)

It says they have a pic of the female broken, does anyone have said picture? Mr.X8 22:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I would supply a picture, but the "no datamined content" thing is looming over my head. But it's pretty simple - just a female tauren sliced in half, colored completely black, with no head, and two toes instead of a hoof, as described above.  (Of interest is that there is also a "fel orc female", which is just a totally black fel orc model sans the burning eyes with an unfinished ponytail.  Probably was too much work to render and voice those two models so they got scrapped?)
 * I'm wondering if the female draenei in the Kurenai faction are just a placeholder for female Broken proper? Presea 22:25, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Personal Confusion...
Akama and his tribe are officialy Broken, right? Before his tribe had the appearance of Lost ones( in WC3:TFT). So which offshoot came first? I remember reading elsewhere that first the Draenei broke down into Broken, then Lost Ones, but Akama's tribe seems to defeat that. Is this a retcon or something, or am I just completely out of my mind?--Acidic 21:44, 1 November 2006 (EST)


 * Sign your posts please. I think we're acting under tha assumption that it's a retcon- it doesn't seem likely that demonic influence or power would make the Broken more like standard draenei. Also, Nobundo devolved into a Broken, no mention of him being a Lost One first. --Ragestorm 21:05, 1 November 2006 (EST)


 * Ugh, I keep forgeting to do that :P. Anyway thaks for clearing that up, I think I understand it a bit better.--Acidic 21:44, 1 November 2006 (EST)


 * Its possible that not all members of the "broken tribe" look like broken, but some look more like "lost ones".Baggins 22:00, 1 November 2006 (EST)
 * The picture of the devolution shows Draenei -> Broken -> Lost Ones, so I always presumed that Draenei would go any look like Broken first and then become Lost Ones. Lost Ones look most deformed of all, too. --Tinkerer 08:51, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Its really a weird issue though, on why Blizzard would use the one art style for Akama, and various people of his tribe back in frozen throne, and other spin off material(rpg), and then make such a drastic retcon as to change their appearance this much. The article in official BC bestiary says they lord over their cousins "lost ones" so that could be that in BC you were actually controlling lost ones in his tribes, rather than Broken ones of the tribe(so that he would use them as foot soldiers while so called "broken" make up ruling cast that for the most part stay behind the lines). That being said there are some things that Draenei in swamp of Sorrow say, and stuff mentioned in the RPG that would imply that they intentionally split from the group under control by Akama and blood elves.

Has anyone seen Akama himself in BC(or is that one of those areas that can't be reached in beta)? Is he perhaps of lost one appearance? Or have they retconned his appearance to that of a broken? or does he get his own unique appearance, making him special case compared to other draenei?Baggins 12:45, 2 November 2006 (EST)


 * it's one of the areas that can't be reached, but I presume he will get his own appearance, just like Kael'thas and Lady Vashj (they aren't modelled like your average naga or blood elf either). Also, models between the Warcraft games have always changed, and the difference between Draenei, Broken and Lost Ones didn't exist yet in WCIII.--Tinkerer 13:14, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Redirect
Redirected to Broken Draenei, Draenei is a race and thus should be capitalized. Jeoh 18:53, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Races aren't capitalized, only languages. Its the new system Blizzard has implemented. Draenei as a race is always written, "draenei" in the material., and note Naming policy.Baggins 18:59, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * Do you capitalise 'humans'? I thought not ... -- Kirkburn  (talk) 19:08, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * Point taken. Jeoh 20:20, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * Thanks for sorting the redirects too :) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 20:21, 29 December 2006 (EST)

"Do you capitalise 'humans'?"

To be fair if there were other races in the world, and they capitalized their own names, I would too, I'm not lower than some other race, ;). So I prefer the fact that race names are no-longer capitalized it makes things more neutral.Baggins 16:47, 1 January 2007 (EST)

TBC Video
I saw a video showing stuff from the TBC beta. I couldn't help noticing that someone was playing as a broken? It also looked like a broken shaman. Does this mean we will be able to play a broken too? I doubt it though because its not on the character customisation screen. --Jammidodger 16:43, 1 January 2007 (EST)
 * The ability to play as a broken seems highly unlikely to me. Where did you see this video.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] APΘLLΘ (ZEUS)  16:50, 1 January 2007 (EST)

I cannot believe it either, but here you go http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7772785434187417758&q=archimonde its about 1/3 way through. --Jammidodger 17:32, 1 January 2007 (EST)
 * I see. The guy who created that video more than likely used an exploit; look where he makes that Shaman walk...that place is not in World of Warcraft I believe.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] APΘLLΘ (ZEUS)  17:47, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Not draenei
According to Velen himself, broken are no longer considered draenei. During the Call of Fire quest chain, you talk about shamanish with him, and he quotes:

''I am thankful that you have chosen the difficult path of the shaman. Few enough do, but I foresee it as critical to our future that we learn shamanism from the Broken.''

''They are called that, but once they were draenei. Fel magics transformed them, and that is why they cannot call upon the power of the Light. Some disapprove of them and the shamanism they teach, but they are not evil.'' -- 13:52, 24 January 2007 (EST)


 * Also, that doesn't mean they're not considered on some level. I can say, as Velen did, "I think it critical to learn meditation from the Buddhists." I'm not implying anything about the Buddhists, merely saying that I need to learn something from them. It's the same for what Velen said. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:16, 24 January 2007 (EST)


 * He says 'once they were draenei', which means that they are in fact no longer draenei. I mistakenly had only half the quote italicized, which was confusing, sorry about that. -- 19:02, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Still, they are "broken draenei", as they are draenei who have been broken. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:53, 24 January 2007 (EST)


 * If you keep track of different quests in the game from different characters relating to Lost ones and Draenei, there are Draenei that consider the Broken, "not draenei" and there are draenei that consider the broken, "draenei", there are Broken that consider themselves "draenei", and Broken that consider themselves something else, and there are other races that consider Broken "draenei". Its not a straightforward thing and stretches into the realms of philosophical concepts of racism, discrimination and bigotry.Baggins 13:00, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

this is where i think bliz screwed up by not planing ahead. remember in WC3 where u first meet the uber screwed up broken and they simply say they are the Draenei. i know blizz probly never planed to include any normal verson of them into wow at the time but i think that still counts... sort of user:stormrage1313666

devolution or evolution
The article says Broken devolved from the Draenei. But i personally think they evolved from Lost Ones Since Akama was a Lost One in The Frozen Throne...


 * Sign your posts, please. That appears to have been retconned, given that Broken look like an intermediary state between the two. The image on Blizzard's own draenei page is evidence for this tree. Also, Nobundo is described has having devolved into a Broken. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:11, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I jusr read the text about broken in the Bestiary of TBC and you where right. I also don't have a signature so I can't add it.


 * type "~ ~ ~ ~" without the spaces, and your signature is automatically added, whether you customize or not. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:51, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Devolution
As I believe Draenei devove into broken then those may devolve into lost ones However some draenei go straight down to lost ones and may become broken from there and some broken may go lost ones then back again.Scorpx2 02:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)scorpx2


 * Draenei didn't "devolve" into the Broken, per se. The only real reason why we say devolve is the fact that they go from a complex figure to a more primitive figure. However, that does not mean that their bodies actually went back in terms of species. The broken are merely mutated offshoots of draenei. Pzychotix 12:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Correct. The term "devolution" or "devolve" only applies if the Broken were what the draenei looked like before they were eredar- which is unlikely. Hence, "mutation" is more likely. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually devolve does not exactly mean de-evolve. It can just mean to deteriorate or to degenerate, which is true here, at least genetically. --Raze 01:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversy on the origins of the Broken
There seems to be abit of a contradiction regarding how the Broken came to be. From what is written in the Broken Draenei page (under the introduction), it is said (or speculated, I think, by comparing them to the Orcs) that the Broken were once Draenei that practiced Fel Magic (namely Warlocks) and de-evolved/were mutated due to those very Fel essence. However, in Rise of the Horde, we know that no Draenei practise Fel Magicks as such works are only done and categorised under the Man'ari Eredar. Furthermore, in a recent lore 'update' that gave insight on Nobundo's back story on the WoW (US) Website; Unbroken, it is publicly stated how Nobundo (and most probably how ALL) Broken came to be (corrupted by the Fel magics of the invading Orcs during the Draenei Genocide on Draenor). I presume that this fiction has been accepted by Blizzard and has become official canon. Thus, I seek the Bookkeepers advice; should we change our content to follow suit the story of Nobundo? I, for one, am gladly in favour of it and will edit the content if given permission.--Brashxon 13:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Off-topic: what a great read. Blizzard hit the nail on the head with their lore on this one. Ranac 08:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Move suggestion
I suggest moving this to Broken (draenei), or simply Broken (unless there are other noteable uses of the term broken). Moving it to Broken or disambig of draenei is not giving permission to ignore the fact that depending on the source they can be referred to both draenei and broken as alternate names (often depending on characters point of view). That fact must still be strongly established in the article.Baggins (talk) 23:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since they are a race, it would be spelled "broken" not "Broken" right? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 07:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, that isn't exactly going to matter in an article title, but I've seen Broken more often than not.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Hunters?
The page lists Broken as having a hunter class, but I don't know of any in game. Where are they? Or are the mention in media outside of the WoW game? Kayb (talk) 05:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Swamplord Musel'ek. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:27, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed.. not just a hunter, hes a very powerful hunter capable of taming even druids in a beast form. 05:47, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes I had forgotten about him. Thanks :) Kayb (talk) 07:28, 3 May 2011 (UTC)