Talk:Uther the Lightbringer

Naxxramas
I don't believe Uther will be a boss in the Necropolis, since he his in a tomb in Western Plaguelands...Unless its only a monument? --Cartier 12:34, 17 April 2006 (EDT)

I hope he won't be. But since Blizzard hates paladins it is possible. --mko 13:08, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

I don't think he is going to appear as a boss, beacuse Uther Lightbringer was a kind man. And probably his soul is the same. --Kaldorei 10:12, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

The paladin/deathknight boss in Naxxramas is the Highlord Mograine, a former champion of the Scarlet Crusade and nowadays the leader of the The Four Horsemen. --Shalkis 06:25, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

There is no way uther will become a deathknight it doesn't ever even say of Arthas corrupting him into a scourge and i think his corpse has to be fairly fresh for the corruption to happen as he states when he makes to banshi queens in warcraft 3

I Agree,Uther's soul wouldn't give into the darkness that easily.Also in Warcraft 3 nothing is said about what Arthas does with his body after he kills him,so the Grave is probably a true one. Hammerdin

Uther's ghost
Hey mates, there is a picture of the Ghost of Uther lightbringer from a quest from the Beta test, where you have to escort a Draenei to the Tomb of Uther in the plaguelands. you can see it here: http://picasaweb.google.com/alcaras.argentus/AlcarasAlpha1/photo#4984859835494629394 --Pulyx 11:15, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Also, he says the following text: "Thank you for coming here in remembrance of me. Your efforts in recovering that symbol, while unecessary, are certainly touching an old man's heart. Please Rise my friend. Keep the blessing as a symbol of the strenght of the Light and how heroes long gone might once again rise in each of us to inspire. --Pulyx 11:15, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Lol, now whenever people ask "What would Uther do?". They can actually go and ask him. Haha. So Uther makes a comeback as a ghost in WOW. Anyone counting of the Ghost of Grom Hellscream? --Invin Dranoel 00:28, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Uther's Powers
We all know Uther was a Kick-ass Paladin that well... kicked ass. Wielding the powers of the Holy Light, he was one of the most formidable warrior alive. But now that he is dead, what kind of powers does his ghost have? Most of the ghost we have seen are unholy and vengeful. But this is the first time most of us are seeing a HOLY spectre. How is he different from the others? --Invin Dranoel 06:23, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

Last Name?
Is Uther's last name "Lightbringer" or is that just the title given to him? I've seen his name written as "Uther Lightbringer" and "Uther the Lightbringer" before.. --TM41 01:55, 5 November 2006 (EST)


 * Lightbringer is a title gave to Uther, we can take as source "The So-Called Mark of the Lightbringer" the name of a Horde quest given by Mehlar Dawnblade (Uther former apprentice) but we can assume that this title became a sort of last name just as Trollbane for Danath or Lightfire for Davil Crokford. N'Nanz 19:46, 20 January 2007 (Rome)

Lightbringer is Uther's family name, but with "the" also his title. Warcraft II manual's character bios included Uther, and his name was written as Uther Lightbringer, even when talking about his life before the Second War. The "the" only appears in post-Warcraft II (and hence Second War) Lore, supporting the idea that "the Lightbringer" is the title Uther received, obviously due to his great deeds during the Second War. One other member of the Lightbringer family has appeared in Warcraft, Shal Lightbring - an archmage. Regards, --Theron the Just 01:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think his grave would have the true name.-- 01:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. His tomb is a monument for belivers of the Light to remember him as the paladin he was and his sacrifice. Real life example; Popes of the Catholic Church are buried with their "title names" too. Regards, --Theron the Just 01:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Uther's name is written as "Uther Lightbringer" in several cases. When his ghost appears in his tomb, the name is written as Uther Lightbringer.

Uther Lightbringer and Uther the Lightbringer are both valid, they get used interchangeably in many sources including the RPG, even within the same articles. Its more personal taste as to which people like better, or think sounds better.Baggins 02:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that its "Shal Lightbinder", not Lightbringer. No way they are related at all.Baggins 03:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

In the Warcraft Universe, characters don't usually have last names and are just given it as sort of a title which can be incorporated into a last name. Uther didn't have a last name before the Second War, where he got his title, "the Lightbringer." It was never an official last name, but over time it changed and people just started calling him Uther Lightbringer. Other examples would be the Sunstriders, Windrunners, Wildhammers, Hellscreams, etc. Those are more honorary titles, usually pertaining to their abilities or feats, than actual last names, but over time it is just thought of that way. Humans are the only ones I can think of that sometimes have legitimate last names, like Varian and Anduin WRYNN (not an honorary). So like Baggins said, both names can work, but in actual lore when he was giving the title, it was just that, a title. jclipps (talk) 01:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Why the change at the quote?
Not at all on topic, but why was the one quote about how long Terenas ruled the land changed? From seventy to fifty years? I must confess, I don#t have the english version, but in all other versions I know Uther clearly says seventy years.


 * Please sign yer name. I would say whoever did change it probably believed 70 years was too long to be ethical. Acjpb 17:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ye know, you could have just went back through this page's history and check when I wrote that entry... i have not only learned how to add a signature by now...no, you answering mainly to say i should have added a signature is very very low.--Maibe 18:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Nickname
Is Lightbringer his nickname or family name?I always thought he got the title for his devotion to the light during the second and third war.....but he also has a relative named Shal Lightbringer www.wowwiki.com/Shal_Lightbringer.What do u guys think?-Marakanis ......and BTW offtopic user Theron the Just did u make this user name in reference to Lor'themar Theron:D?sorry for the offtopic bit-Marakanis


 * His name is referred to as Uther the Lightbringer, or Uther Lightbringer, interchangeably even within the same articles. Its a title. Baggins 02:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And a name, much the same way the orcs assume new names upon great deeds, such as Doomhammer. --Sky (t · c · w) 02:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed common human naming practice exists in two ways, either as a family name that comes from long history & ancestry, or changing the name to emphasize an accomplishment;


 * Human parents grant a child its given name at birth, while its family name has a long history and usually speaks something of it's bearers ancestry. Some humans change their family names to emphasize their own accomplishments.

Infact once Uther took on the name, then his descendents or relatives could have chosen to use the name as well to honor his acomplishment. So just because there is a Shal Lightbringer, we don't know how Shal came to use the name, it could have been anything.Baggins 02:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

While both are used interchangeably, "Uther the Lightbringer" is the name given to him as the title to articles in more recent sources, and references in later books. Such as in Shadows & Light, and Alliance Player's Guide. Because of its more recent use, and because it seems to show up more often in recent sources, then it will be the main title of this article by naming policy.Baggins 02:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that its "Shal Lightbinder", not Lightbringer. No way they are related at all.Baggins 03:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the Warcraft II novelization make it clear that "Lightbringer" was a title bestowed upon him? --Xavius 08:22, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Uther the Lightbringer (DO NOT MOVE THE PAGE)
This is the name on his tombstone, the name used as the name of his article in Shadows & Light, and many other current and new sources. As it is the latest information it will be the title on the page, as per wowwiki policy. If I see anyone trying to move it again, it will be ban time. This is your only warning.

BTW, SHAL LIGHTBINDER is not related to UTHER the LIGHTBRINGER. They have DIFFERENT NAMES. Uhh hem, ok I've spoken.Baggins 01:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)Baggins

Speculation as to who wrote on his plaque?
I at first thought Turalyon but hes in Outland, and then i thought it would be like maybe a high member of royalty of Stormwind or what was Lordaeron, but wouldnt it be weird if Arthas wrote that, at one part he regained his sanity and wrote that then lost it, but its probably one of the paladins that buried him? What do you guys think?


 * Arthas never went insane, as he understood what he was doing was wrong, and I'm sure if he found his remains he'd just feed them to ghouls or impale them and use them as a battle standard in some march against the Silver Hand. I'm guessing someone of the Silver Hand wrote it-- probably one of Uther's buddies that survived Arthas' game of "Chunk the Paladins", or maybe Illidan some priests.  --Super Bhaal 04:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well Arthas lost his sanity which I believe made him go sort of insanse in his whole rampaging of Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, but true no doubt that a priest or some paladins that buried him wrote that, I wish we would get to know who wrote that. --Melean 11:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it would probably either Tirion or Ballador the Bright since they are probably the only paladins alive that knew Uther and respected him.

Arthas never went insane he wanteted the power the lich king would bestow apon him cuz in arthas rise of the lich king he kills his iner lich king IloveWhitemane


 * All non-BE pallys respected him.-- 19:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Class before Paladin
In Tide of Darkness novel he told Lothar he was a knight before silverhand formed, so remove the cleric part. --Master3 12:27, 27 Dec 2007 (UTC)


 * Well actually, the bit that he was a cleric, or rather an apprentice cleric is originally from Warcraft II manual. Its also possible for him to have been a knight as well as an apprentice. In anycase that bit should probably still be in the article for completeness sake, and to remain consistent with our lore writing policy for "perceived conflicts", Lore policy. I've also taken the time to add updates based on his RPG classes as well. Point of note I also just checked, Alliance Player's Guide also confirms his former cleric status as well (he was one of the cleric's leaders under Faol, see Church of the Holy Light). Again this doesn't contradict the fact that he was also a knight before the second war, it just means he was also a cleric.--Baggins 09:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)08:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

In the novel Uther told Lothar he was also a follower of the light since his youth, but not a cleric. He also stated Faol serve as his spiritual advisor and mentor,not his master or leader, if he was cleric then the Archbioship would be his master. He did not know order of the Silverhand untill Faol told him and offered him a place. Faol said some of the paladins were knights before,others were priests, not both. Consider to these evidence he couldn't be cleric, just a normal follower of the light. --Master3 16:58, 11 Jan 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, note the lore policy. Lore from various official sources may conflict. Our job is to show all versions, not leave any out.Baggins 20:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

"Creator of the Knights"
I always thought that Uther was just the first of the Knights and their Grand Master, not their creator. Wasn't that Archbishop Faol? Asking if I'm wrong before changing it in the article. Jclipps 20:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * They were co-founders.-- 20:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that Archbishop Faol sort of founded Knights of the Silver Hand but it was Uther that was appointed to lead them as their Grand Master.---Wowsjostedt 17:50, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Sire
Sire does usually mean noble lineage. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 03:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Sire is a form of address for reigning Kings in the United Kingdom and in Belgium. It was formerly also used in England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain. Historically Sire had a wider usage. During the middle ages Sire was generally used to address a superior, a person of importance or in a position of authority or the nobility in general." Now that's from Wikipedia, so it can't be cited in anything substantial
 * Encarta World English Dictionary: "1. the male parent of a four-legged animal, especially a domesticated animal such as a stallion or bull 2. sire or Sire a respectful form of address for a king or lord (archaic)"
 * Yes, noble lineage is part of it, but we do not know if its usage is the same. Also, if it's used as a form of address that means "yes, sire", "by your command, sire", or somesuch, and not as a title like Uther uses it. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I know he isn't an animal. So i guess we don't know if it is a noble Sire or just a superior Sire.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 13:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly. It's also possible that it was originally a typo or misuse ("Sir" instead of Sire). A similar situation exists with Lothar. Also, the knights/paladins in Warcraft II refer to the player as "sire"-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:36, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

why didn't arthas raise uther??
it would have been a gigantic demoralizer to the alliance to see they're favorite holy man reanimated as a mindless vehicle of evil. thus my question: why didn't arthas do something with the body? perhaps a little part of arthas still respected him?... Seacow42 (talk) 01:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you remember what happened when the Lich King stepped on the Light's Hope Chapel? He can't set a foot on holy ground, or something like this. And Uther is supposed to have been canonized. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 14:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * He didn't kill him in the chapel... [[Image:OrcGrunt.gif|32px]] Doomhand [[Image:HumanFootman.gif|25px]] talk  07:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that the boss "The Deathbringer" in Icecrown, who are supposed to be the Lich kings most powerful death knight, will be Uther the Lightbringer. Just think about it. Uther was a powerful paladin and alot of powerful paladins have made powerful death knights, Arthas Menethil (who became a death knight then the Lich King), Alexandros Mograine, Sir Zeliek and Thane Korth'azz from the Four Horsemen. Furthermore Uther was Arthas mentor and would fit perfect for a role in the Icecrown raid both plotwise and bosswise (he has much equipment in lore like his hammer, gloves and his shroud that would fit as loot). Finally The Lightbringer - The Deathbringer are pretty clear opposites.---Wowsjostedt 17:50, October 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem with that theory is that Uther's body is in a tomb right now. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:35, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Also Uther's spirit has interacted with us throughout some quests, which means he can't have been raised.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 11:35, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

why is it written in common
when i was in west plague lands i went to see uthers grave and i cant read it.......... well the grave in capital city(UC)is written in common i can read it.......its so weird —The preceding unsigned comment was added by. 19:56, April 14, 2009


 * It's a game inconsistancy. Blizzard isn't perfect. Eman91 18:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * because the one in uc is probably made by undead and uther's is probably done by a human. UtherJr 19:10, January 11, 2010


 * Obviously the Humans of Lordaeron made them, before the the fall of their lands and since humans made the plaques its understandable why they're in common. Now as to why horde can read the one in Undercity... cause whats the point of making a readable object inside a Horde major city that only Alliance could read... I was going to say cause the Undead understand common (least lore-wise), but then yea.. all horde can read it, not just the forsaken. 10:06, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Hair colour
In Warcraft III, Uther had red hair, and now suddenly he has grey hair. Is there any official lore source about Uther's actual hair colour?--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 10:15, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * In Warcraft 3 it was sort of a rusty red turning to gray; presumably they made it just plain gray in WoW so that they wouldn't have to make a new hair color texture just for Uther. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 10:20, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds logical. Although, due to Uther's change of hair colour, he now looks exactly the same as Tirion Fordring. Quite a disappointment! Take a look yourself and compare: Uther/Tirion --WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 12:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No exactly the same, look closer to the hair, Uther's are falling in his back with two "tresses" on his face. Tirion has the "bowl" cut.
 * 12:55, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I kinda wished that they gave him a "two toned" hair/facial hair color- like Stalvan Mistmantle... You know like the "faded" dirty blonde/brown hair and grey beard. Ah, well.  Just my two bits.--Blayaden (talk) 15:24, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Valius and it's inconsistincies.
I have a problem with Uther's hammer, Valius. Here's why: - In Warcraft 3, valius is a plain hammer with an extended, staff like handle.

- The above would then suggest that Uther's hammer is a damage dealing weapon made for a specific form of stylised combat because of the peculiar nature of the wepaons form.

- In World of Warcraft, his earliest appearance in the Plaguelands above his crypt has him with a very plain, two handed warhammer, different from it's earliest game appearances in WC's past.

- Even later than that in the Halls of reflection his weapon has changed to a modle identical to the Grand Marshal's Demolisher and this is also consistent with it's appearance in the Caverns of Time: Old Stratholme instance.

- However, in it's obtainable form in Icecrown Citadel from the Lich King, it doesn't resemble the extended-in-length stylised hammer, Grand Marshal's Demolisher or the plain Warhammer model, but is a one-handed mace with floating spikes on it which has stats for ''healing. ''

- After the shattering, it then returns to looking like its stylised hammer from Warcraft 3 on his newly erected statue in Cathedral Square, but as a Grand Marshal's Demolisher with an extended hammer, appearing very simmilar to it's original form and maybe even the definitive, high spec appearance they couldnt get in WC3.

I have problems with these inconsistencies because, frankly, the demon is in the detail and myself and (possibly others) have noticed this also. I am a Paladin, so anything lore related to my class I take up with great fervour, so having one of my favourite past paladins the subject of shoddy weapon modelling consistency annoys me. It wouldn't have taken much to replicate what they were going for, just use the Grand Marshal's Demolisher with the extended handle and use that model with the polearm animations. Hey presto, you have the proper Valius as the Light originally intended :)

Thanks for readingmy rant. Extractum--Paladin-General of Stormwind 23:28, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Simply Valius is Gavel of Lightbringer, and is different weapon than his War Mace. Since it's healing oriented it must be something else than War Mace paladins wield. That's all about, you don't have to get so much into the lore about some ICC drops, since they are simply items that are not really lore-based at most. Encaitar (talk) 16:55, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you point, regardless I do think the ICC drops are lore-related I think they are intended to be! You have the royal sceptre of Terenas Menethil II and The Greatstaff of Antonidas. I beleive these to be the real items, only corrupted by the necromantic powers of the Lich King or something else like that. I do however accept the possibility that the Gavel of the Lightrbinger is different from his Warhammer though, it's plausible, a second hammer? Regardelss I would definately disagree with the idea that the weapons are'nt lore-based, because they are linked to several characters most of which are substantial characters in Warcraft history! I do think though that such minor things should be considered by Blizz though as they can be noticable, despite how small they be, possibly even unintentioanlly retconning things they didn't mean to in the first place. Just watching thier backs ;-) Extractum Paladin-General of Stormwind 00:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

That's what I actually meant. I know they were supposedto be lore-based, but some of them simply cannot be. For instacne the weapons that were meant to be Muradins - They are still laying in the Frostmourne's cave, and yet Lich King drops Mithrios, Bronzebeard's Legacy (heroic) and Troggbane, Axe of the Frostborne King (heroic). which could not fall in his possesion. It shows how game-developers actually wanted to do something cool, but again made like 20 retcons, that were not really nessecary... Encaitar (talk) 13:04, 14 December 2010 (UTC)