Forum:Cataclysm

The next expansion...

 * Note this part of the discussion occurred before BlizzCon. Now BlizzCon has started, it's a free for all ... update away :) 21:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's gotta be brought up :) Many of you will have noticed info on Cataclysm (the likely name for the next expansion) is out there, in the ether.

I think we should beware about posting the rumours. I'm not exactly sure what opinion Blizzard would have if we did post stuff, but it's probably best to stay on their good side. Come BlizzCon, we can go wild, but before then they probably won't appreciate us plastering spoilers/unreleased info across the wiki.

Also, being cryptic is fun. 01:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've doubted worgen becoming playable for a long long time, and I still do... but they did say they have "big plans" for Gilneas... which seeing its next to a horde low level zone would make sense for them to join the horde, although the supposedly "leaked" info says they join the Alliance.. heh we'll see. 01:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * On a related note, there's some "big news" (poke poke, nudge nudge) on MMO Champion. If that leak turned out to be true, and we'll know for sure after BlizzCon, are we ready for those kinds of changes to, I dunno, 90% of the wiki? Would we just throw all the "old" pages into a "legacy" bin? I'm kind of scared and thrilled at the same time. 10:14 PM, 14 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * I can see them doing some of the changes that revamp some of the older dungeons, but I do not see them totally redoing Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms (what Northrend was untouched by the Cataclysm?) as far how they land looks! Two reasons for this: (1). This would mean they would have to make these changes apply to the all of the player that have never upgraded their original World of Warcraft game up to The Burning Crusade much less Wrath of the Lich King. (2). What would new player do at lower levels under these newer conditions and where would they go to do some instances / raids at the lower levels? I can see them maybe (just maybe) adding flying mounts to the lands. As to the  and  races, I can see them more of being  to start off with and you having to do quests to choose to be in either the Alliance or Horde faction and being able to use the new Faction Change ability to switch back and forth between the two, for a fee and with a cooldown of course. But most of the rest of the information on MMO Champion just seems to be too outlandish, I do not mean Outland like either, to me. --  02:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna be honest, what I've seen at MMO-Champ really just confirms something I've come to believe these past couple weeks: that Blizzard is actively "leaking" misinformation on the new expansion. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:07, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ohh I have suspected that for years, ever since the 1stCategory:April Fools joke they posted on their web page in 2005 about the Wisps being the new race, created such a stir! They learned the general public is so gullible, that they can leak just a little bit of true facts and plenty of false facts, that it generates a storm of forum postings (guaranteeing that when the patch or expansion comes out it sells great) because it is / has been on the minds of the public for so long. It is almost like for Hollywood stars, bad publicity is good publicity (to a great deal of degree of course). -- 03:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd have to agree... for them to basically destroy the old world would require a lot more work than say adding Northrend did... they'd have to redo all the starter quests and every quest in every zone... if they did all that was on that MMO champion post, they'd might as well do WoW2 and start fresh (with allowing transfers from WoW), basically what Everquest did... and we all know what happened to that... 03:31, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * With the speed at which they've been churning new content now, I wouldn't say anything is off the table. They have a lot of money and a lot of resources. 12:03 AM, 15 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * Such things ruin the surprise, and cause the ravenous masses to get angry if their hopes do not come to fruition. Also, Blizzard frowns on such things. I still hope for a red herring.-- 14:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, Warcraft herring only appears to come in turquoise or green. Or dead and blue or yellow. 20:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Or hairy and purple. 20:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about ruining the fun but... the masks are for a halloween event, the "Worgen Form" is tied to the masks. Probably there won't be any new race, the only thing that can be true are the new class combinations, blizzard recently added npcs with that combinations, but... they might be just npcs... Pudim17 (talk - contr) 13:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Kirk was trying to say, we all know about the rumor, just don't post about it on the mainspace yet.  10:46 AM, 18 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * Aye, exercise restraint. In any case, it's all unconfirmed atm, and we try not to post unconfirmed stuff anyway. If it is true, I think it'll be awesome, and I have little reason to doubt the news. (I don't think it's a major issue to discuss it here, or on the lore forum though, since it's not the public face of the wiki.) 17:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I try to exercise restraint, but you know how it is with Diminishing Returns... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh god... its all true... everything mmochampion posted has been confirmed at 3:10pm EST. 19:13, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Metzen even mentioned the leaks.-- 19:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm
 * Deathwing is just amaziiiiiiiiiing
 * 19:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit: Looking closely, has the water texture been reworked?

Whoa..Deathwing looks amazing but...I can't help noticing.. He's chin looks remarkably like a snowplow...I deem him "Plowface-wing" from now onwards! Siggy time! -- Nicktehplank 21:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the "snowplow" may be armor instead of his actual chin. From the Deathwing article:
 * "Neltharion's betrayal had struck a great blow to the Aspects, and their fear of being destroyed like the blue dragonflight kept them in seclusion. Deathwing returned to his lair beneath a mountain. His proximity to the Demon Soul was ripping his body apart, so the goblins forged an armor of adamantium to serve as a vessel to contain Deathwing's raging powers and keep them in check. Only the adamantium plates kept the power from destroying his body."
 * He's probably got more armor around his body. Then again, maybe Blizz forgot about the armor and it really is his chin.-- 19:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You can see armor plating on his shoulder going up towards his wings so the artist that did the image knew about the armor. Leviathon (talk) 03:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

How do you make a new expansion? Easy, blow up an old one. At BlizzCon 2009, the dungeons and raids panel talked about their inspirations. Like when a programmer told them they could put vehicles on top of other vehicles, and then they knew they had to do Voltron (so Mimiron was born). Do they store dynamite in their planning rooms now? -- 20:43, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Merged from Talk:World of Warcraft: Cataclysm
Well, it would make sense, seeing that Blizz just recently claimed the trademark "Cataclysm". Personally, I'd love to see these additions more than anything else right now - the lack of things that are supposed to be there is disturbing. Throan Loremaker (talk) 22:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I feel the 'leaked' list of zones should be removed for the same reasons said here. We need to draw the line somewhere to stem the inevitable flood of rampant speculation.-- 00:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=92919.0 Is one of the most well-accepted sources of information, with a number of posters (see page 97 or 98 for two well-thought posts) speculating on in-game content changes that agree with the post. --Xaladar (talk) 13:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "well-accepted sources" Uhm... yeah. About that.
 * Not posting unconfirmed rumors for a few days is not going to kill the site. We're an official fansite, so there are rules we need to follow. The instant we get confirmation I bet either I or one of the other attendees will be making posts public. -- k_d3 13:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Mmo-champion is "a well-accepted source", but not "an official well-accepted source"
 * 13:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Bah, mmo-champion is just a datamining site that makes assumptions and rumors. Saying its "gathered from reliable sources" tells me nothing... I'll admit I visit mmo champion every so often to hear about new stuff added into the game (but not the patch notes), but I've made my opinions of them known. 00:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well i doubt they're starting a new expansion so soon, wasn't Tigole assigned to an 'Untitled' MMO(Or it might have just been a game..Cant remember ((Im new don't bully me =P))) Cataclysm is most probably it makes sense to me...Either that or blizzard is just pulling our legs/Planning far far ahead.. Siggy time!-- Nicktehplank 23:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

It's going to be interesting to see how Blizzard is going to explain this new race/class combination thing. Archmage Rodyn (talk) 19:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Like Coobra said... Oh god!- I don't want any of this to happen! ive not been playing for a while and when i get back i want azeroth(Sorry if i spelled that wrong) be to be the same and why another expansion so soon? im not even friggin' level 80 yet because i stoped a few weeks after WOTLK came out...So..(Im hoping this is a prank but...) reforming everything would mean hundreds and hundreds of hours has been wasted by the Wowwiki community and we're gonna have to start all over again? *Imagines collapse of Wowwiki* Nicktehplank 20:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The expansion won't be out for a while, Nick. You have time to level to 80. In fact, so do I-- for all 8 of my mains. Also remember that nothing is wasted; we've had things change on us before and have rolled with it. WoWWiki will simply simulate a DDOS attack on itself in the first few weeks after WoWCat is released, that's all... which will be reduced if everyone plays the public test realms and adds data from them, in a Wikious manner of course.--ClemSnide (talk) 05:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

This is great but bad at the same time!Centaur77 (talk) 20:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Blizzcon pictures?
What should we do with them? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, they were from the official site. I've alredy added the source.

New Portal?
Does this mean there will be a new portal in the tabs, or does that come later when the expansion is in Beta? -- 16:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Atm the main page is the portal for cataclysm, but it'll become its own portal pretty soon. 17:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Who is working on Cataclysm articles?
Wowinsider clearly has a strong effort, but we seem to be behind. Is anyone working on articles of Cataclysm topics? -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 9:17 PM PST 21 Aug 2009

I'm working on Goblins specifically. BobNamataki (talk) 12:33, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Editing in new content
So... the original question... "are we ready for those kinds of changes to, I dunno, 90% of the wiki? Would we just throw all the 'old' pages into a 'legacy' bin?"


 * 1) They're completely changing stats (removal of attack power, spell power, block, defense, and mp5, so therefore more haste, stam ), it's a fair assumption that every item page will be changed in the xpac. That sounds like a lot of work...
 * 2) Same goes for most of the zones. The descriptions, maps, lore, inhabitants, will probably all be out of date.
 * 3) Quests, same deal as stats, although they might be easier. I assume many will just be removed vs modified.

So what's the plan here? We probably need a guideline for editing at least or we're going to be doing things in different ways for different parts of the wiki. 12:41 PM, 22 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * I think atm the best plan is to use a section on the relavant pages to describe the coming changes, along with listing them on the main Cataclysm article. The beta is a long way away, so I wouldn't worry about major changes yet. 17:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I will go on a Perm vacation when beta comes out - for about 1 year - then when I come back - hopefully all the changes will be updated. --  05:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I have one request/suggestion for edits regarding Cataclysm, based on previous expansions. If all the content related to the expansion is in its own page or section, label or tag that page/section to indicate it's Cataclysm-only (maybe simply the NYI template, or a similar one for Cataclysm), and write everything in the present tense. A lot of the previous expansion-related articles still (or very recently) have language like "death knights will have such-and-such ability", which all then has to get converted to present tense. Just a humble request from my future self. :-) -- Harveydrone 19:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * IMO, so much will change from when it was written in the future tense to the present, I wouldn't worry about it. It will get updated to the correct tense pretty quickly, as it moves from a sub-section to the main content of the article, and the old stuff moves to patched. 1:43 PM, 28 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Nelf town in Trailer
Can anyone tell me what Nelf town is at :55 of the Cata trailer? I'm colored blind and have a hard time picking out which area it is from. Thnks.


 * It is the ruins of the Stonetalon Peak night elf town. Leviathon (talk) 18:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you can call it a town... 19:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess that's one of the fun things about WoW scale: sometimes it really is only two buildings. And sometimes those two represent thirty each :P 00:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ever played rts? 10 units represent half the army. Perhaps Blizzard was trying to keep a connection to the strategy. BobNamataki (talk) 11:22, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nod to the RTS? I'll label that as unlikely. WoW would be a 1 TB game if Blizzard didn't scale. Not to mention we'd be seeing Patch 1.0 around this time, instead of in 2004, since a bigger world requires developers to pour more time into it.[[Image:IconSmall Amberrock.png]] AMBER (ЯΘ&#60;K)  13:00, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * When I play rts I scale properly and crash my computer. (Has anyone heard of ffh2?) BobNamataki (talk) 01:14, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Mounts
OK, follow me on this. Orcs, you see, have worg mounts. (Well, wolves. Close enough for Government work.) And worgs are what the Worgen morph into, right? So, I think that the Worgen racial mount should be Orcs. And I am unanimous in that. Goblins? Those little thieves should be allowed any racial mount seeing as how they "fell off the back of a zeppelin."--ClemSnide (talk) 05:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * K... well, they've already announced the worgen and goblin racial mounts... And worgen don't morph into worgs... they morph into worgen (from human). 06:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What ev er.--ClemSnide (talk) 11:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Did they, Coobra? I recall them saying at Blizzcon that the worgen mount still wasn't finalized, and the concept art they showed was just one of many. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:30, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, point is worgen will not turn into worgs... unless that becomes their "cat" form for druids. 21:03, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Silly, but funny. Goblins should have a mount like a mechanostrider. I'm partial to a mechanoscorpid that occasionally stings the rider. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 11:38 PM PST 2 Sep 2009
 * I like the cars.-- 23:39, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * I can see the jokes now... BEEP BEEP I'M A JEEP!! 05:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you're just being silly, Fandy. Everyone knows that goblin machines become more efficient, the more black smoke they emit!  Where's a scorpion going to emit smoke from?  Only slightly more seriously, they already have a number of Shredder models; I could see them making an unarmed "transport walker". --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:53, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Goblins not making vehicles with weapons on them... now whos being silly. =P 06:53, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Totally agree, can't see the Goblins making something without putting weapons on it. Metus (talk) 11:17, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Things that need to be done
Before the Cataclysm happens, there should be a greater effort to collect information that will be lost with it. We have one screenshot of every subzone, but we should have more images of things if the subject is going to be lost forever. We are also missing some non-quest dialogue from some NPCs, and if they fall into a pit of lava or pull a Naxxramas I doubt they can be clicked on again. No offence to users who do this already. I am just putting it out there.-- 23:21, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Special focus should be given to Darkshore, Ashenvale and Azshara. Huge changes are expected in all of them.As far as i am aware, no zone is going to get as large an overhaul as Azshara and i doubt anything will be much the same. However, it needs to be recalled that there was less there to begin with (thys the overhaul!) gadget (talk) 23:39, September 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * And the Barrens! I believe http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/august/artpanel_081.jpg gives a good overview of how much each zone is changing, where red = a lot. Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge, though obscured in that image, are likely to get changes too, with the updates to Blackrock Spire. 15:28, September 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * I wish there was a better, hi-res version of that map... I tried to find one, but failed. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 6:21 PM PST 15 Sep 2009

New York Style City
On the first day of Blizzcon, I heard somebody complain that there will be a 'New York style' city added in cataclysm. Which city would that be? I asked the guy and he said it was just something he had heard earlier. Since then I have scoured all the Cataclysm info to try and find out. My guess is that it could be Uldum, Gilneas, the Goblin Isle or the rumored new Gnome city.  Tazmantdr Talk Contr. 16:17, September 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * new york like city?but why should blizz ever add a new york like city in wow? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.
 * I don't know thats just what I heard.[[Image:Marks Spec RoundIcon.png]] Tazmantdr [[Image:WC3RoC_logo_16x32.png]] Talk Contr. 20:36, September 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, Uldum is going to be Egyptian, Gilneas will have old english feel.. those 2 are already confirmed. I haven't heard anything about a new york style city, but I highly doubt goblins will change their already lore made architecture.. and gnomes already have their style too. 22:08, September 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Acording to the recently Cataclysm-focused UK PC Gamer magazine the 'New York Style City' will be located on the Goblin Isle of Kezan and will be the starting location for the Goblin race before Kezan gets destroyed and the goblin survivors are marooned on the Lost Isles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

Its not TOO hard to mix up New York with the cold downtowns of many central cities of England. The cource could be talking about Greymane. Equally posible, it could be our mysterious friend 'Neutral Port'. gadget (talk) 18:57, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

It could be the worgen capital, I saw on the cataclysm site it looked victorian style. That's it! Older new york! BobNamataki (talk) 11:20, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Garrosh: new warchief or just leader?
Following reverts of my edits on Garrosh Hellscream and Warchief, I've decided to take this to the forums. The editor who removed my contributions claimed "it is never told he has the title of warchief, it's just said that it's the leader". Personally, I disagree. For once, PC Gamer UK states that Garrosh is the "heir to Thrall's throne". That means he is going to be warchief. Furthermore, the Horde has always had warchiefs as its leaders, right from Warcraft I on. The question is; what should we put in the articles? Garrosh as just the leader or as the Warchief? AMBER (RΘCK)  07:42, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is redundant, isn't it? The orcish leader is the warchief and vice-versa. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 11:53, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Until Blizzard outright says "Garrosh is the WarChief" I see no point in calling him that. For all we know, Thrall is away and Garrosh is just "in charge" while he's gone.  That wouldn't make him the WarChief.  I think "leader" is a good generic term that covers pretty much any outcome. --WarlockSoL (talk) 14:13, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lor'themar is the leader of the blood elves, and he is not the king. Until he officially receives the title of Warchief, I wouldn't put it anywhere on his page.--Lon-ami (talk) 14:45, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * My revert is pretty much explained by WarlocSoL and Lon-ami. We shouldn't assume that he is the warchief specially with Thrall still alive. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 16:21, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * And frankly the wiki should represent how the Warcraft universe is currently not something that will happen a year from now. 20:59, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * For infoboxes, I do agree - info in them should be uncontroversial. Doesn't rule out a section on the article discussing it though, of course (i.e. Garrosh Hellscream). 16:04, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then Kirkburn, in that case we should remove everything about the return of Deathwing. Also, if it's discussed among fans and players on forums, sites and ingame then I think it should be recognized as major fan speculation. We are keepers of knowledge, not creators. BobNamataki (talk) 11:15, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what should be removed BobNamataki, I have checked the Deathwing article and all refereces to Cataclysm are cited from an official source. So there is no need to remove it. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:10, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kirkburn was referring specifically to the infobox, not the article as a whole. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:17, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes but it was being stated that only current events in wow should be mentioned. The actual Cataclysm itself has not happened yet. BobNamataki (talk) 12:35, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * It has not happened, that's why everything about Cataclysm is in future tense, but that doesn't justify the deletion of cited sources of the cataclysm. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:20, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * The user responsible gave very little explanation. BobNamataki (talk) 01:16, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * What shocked me when I first read it is why? Personally, I don't like Garrosh, well, I like his spirit but I don't like the idea of his as leader. And if I am ever going to accept that at all, I'm going to need a really good story as to why Thrall is no longer Warchief. And I want more than, "because he wants it". However, thats not here, it's there. Let's wait for Blizzard to actually announce this stuff before assumptions. If you think about it, aren't you guys more exited to see Troll Druid forms? TeeSon5 (talk) 12:25, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Gromm killed a demigod, what did Garrosh ever do? BobNamataki (talk) 13:54, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

One of the first things I heard about cataclysm was that Thrall would become the next Guardian of Tirisfal. It's apparently another reason for Malfurion Stormrage to reason to return; so that he can 'train' and get him ready for the position. It doesn't make alot of sense to me and again, I can't give an official source because it came from me whispering this guy with a grunty pet. Tazmantdr Talk Contr. 22:27, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make sense because it's not happening. Med'an is the new Guardian, and Malfurion has nothing to do with the Council of Tirisfal and never did. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:45, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Why would Garrosh become Warchief? Thrall knows Garrosh wants war with the Alliance. So why make him warchief or leadear of the Horde depending on what you think his position and title is. And couldnt thrall appiont Saurfang instead? Rimor Conscientia (talk) 00:06, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Highborne
On a side note, it seems pretty obvious gghat the highborn 'Archmage' in Darnasssus is all setting things up for the mage class Night Elves. I guess that since this is one of the biggest changes in terms of class, they are putting extra effort into this. gadget (talk) 22:05, October 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Equally, though, they could be adding in High Elf skins, making the race choice Night Elf/High Elf. Or for an extended High Elf quest hub, introducing more lore about them.  Were this a numbers issue, it would be extrapolation.  As is, it's speculation.  --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:00, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * The Highborne aren't high elves, though, they're night elves. Sure, it may technically be speculation, but it seems pretty clear that that's the purpose, considering we KNOW night elves are getting mages, Blizzard has suggested that the Highborne are returning, and they've flat-out said that they'll be putting in quests and such to explain some of the more "out there" race class combos of Cataclysm. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:11, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I was unaware of the point that Highborne were Night Elves. The quest NPCs don't seem to share the coloration available to the PCs.  Not disputing your superior knowledge of lore, though.  Lore isn't really my strong point.  --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:41, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

They don't look completely identical, i agree, but to me theyh just look more'magical' :P. Yes, highborn are night elves, and high elves are those highborn that underwent great hardship and became 'deformed'. In the highborn of Diremaul, we can see the last remainant of the old class structure and society of the night elves, but not a seperate race. Too bad these far ranging fellows arent part of their home faction. gadget (talk) 20:48, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Flying Mounts In Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms
Please tell me I'm not the only person who sees what's wrong with this concept. It's going to destroy random PvP in PvP servers, eliminate the point of flight masters and the Orgrimmar-Thunder Bluff zeppelin, make raids on cities MUCH easier (Horde can just fly over Stormwind and dismount, falling into the town. This won't be doable with roofed cities, making an unbalance.), and eliminating the point of land mounts other than for the mount count. I really, really hope Blizzard changes their minds. Sebreth (talk) 03:25, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all, they already stated you're going to be needy to be high level, like 83 or 85. How many high levels take the zep now? The point of that was to get low level toons that don't have the FP, so they don't have to cross the barrens. I'm pretty sure the FPs will be used as much as they are now, and will be used as much as the northrend ones are by level 80s now. As to the city raiding, we don't know their plans... they could put invisible walls, or anti-air turrets that knock you off your flying mount when you get close. Lets count the cities with ceilings... Ironforge, Exodar... 2. Undercity... 1. So I don't see Alliance with the disadvantage here. They might even prevent flying mounts in cities like dalaran, so ground mounts will be useless to us, as they currently are in wotlk. 04:22, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe they will add high level ranged attack guards to cities like some towns in Outland have. This will discourage raiding somewhat. However, I agree that this will probably create an imbalance in that the Alliance has more roofed and hard to access cities. It will be interesting to see what Blizzard does. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 6:28 PM PST 19 Oct 2009
 * Y'know, I'm not sure they did ever state that it'll require level 80+ - anyone got a source on that? 16:37, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

What about those areas closed of by mountains like Teldrassil. Doesn't that mean they'll have to show what's over there? BobNamataki (talk) 11:18, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * When flight comes to Azeroth, they'll have to complete the areas untouched due to not needing to be done. Either that or place many invisible walls to large areas they don't want you entering. 22:00, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * When all is considered, completing the areas may well be easier than making invisible walls that force you below altitudes that would expose the uncreated scenery from all positions. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:14, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that they completely scratched all their Zones and they're starting fresh (recreating all zones) to allow Flying mounts. This brings different issues to my mind. First of all, theres the Gnomish Air Strip which was blocked off, will this be removed entirely, put an invisible wall, or will we be able to travel there now? The same applies for similarly faced areas on Azeroth. If you go to Hellfire, and try to raid Honor Hold or Thrallmar, there are Flying Guards which can knock you off you're mount. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that these type of Flying Units will be in Trade Cities too. Then again, we will no longer be knocked off our flyers when we get pushbacked. I know this applies for players but I am unsure if this goes for guards too. Nonetheless, Flight Masters will not die. A lot of people still use Flying Taxis in Northrend. I'm not sure if you knew, the flight taxis goes faster than an epic flying mount. And most people use regular flyers anyways because they're cheaper and faster now. Sure, ganking will be more rampant in Azeroth, but... how many high end players REALLY spend their time in these places anyways? I don't expect to see a lot of high levels in Azeroth, weather they're flying or not, they'll just be crowding the new Sanctuary that comes out. As for Zeps, they're already quite useless. Honestly, the only problem I have with Flyers in Azeroth is that now, Blizzard will be faced with removing some of the more "ancient" non used areas... like the Gnomish airstrip as mentioned before. --TeeSon5 (talk) 12:34, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Invisible walls will make the game cheaper. I know I'll seem like a nerd but BRING BACK VANILLA WOW. BobNamataki (talk) 13:56, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * That is an exceedingly bad idea. Both from gameplay and business perspectives. [[Image:IconSmall Amberrock.png]] AMBER (ЯΘ&#60;K)  16:54, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Either way, they've already trashed current and started the reconstruction. It's kinda a one way street now. Unless they decide to have wasted all that money just to change their mind. --TeeSon5 (talk) 18:05, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Jump out of a zeppelin and fall to your death, dismount in the air and fall to your death. I don't know what you have against vanilla wow. It's better. BobNamataki (talk) 19:07, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * They have not trashed all their zones and starting from scratch TeeSon, simply updating them to allow sight from all angles (and of course the changes per Cataclysm). Though its more of a model/graphics update to the buildings, trees, and other objects, than the zones themselves. 00:28, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

No New Capitals for the New Races
Who else is as disappointed about this as me? TeeSon5 (talk) 12:17, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this confirmed? I've been hearing a lot of arguments going both ways, but nothing concrete. --Joshmaul (talk) 12:45, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Define confirmed? I confirm it when a developer stated it on a Cataclysm interview a few months ago. The reason they're not adding the Capitals is because Exodar and Silvermoon weren't used at all past the initial "wow" excitement phase. Now it's just a matter of finding an author who can make up some type of lore story as to why they don't have a Capital. Honestly, the reason we don't use them is because of Location. TeeSon5 (talk) 12:48, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I've had this same argument with people on MMO-Champion. I want visual proof - a case of "screenshot or it didn't happen". I want to see where it is written - on WoW.com, or some other semi-reputable WoW news source - that a Blizzard employee, someone who is CONFIRMED as a Blizzard employee and not "I know someone at Blizzard", said "there will be no new capitals". There have been a lot of conflicting stories - "worgen are getting a section of Greymane City" and "no they're not, they're getting a district in Stormwind". Same with "goblin capital is in Azshara" and "it's not a capital, it's a town with direct access to Orgrimmar, sort of a goblin district in Orgrimmar". And of course, the ever-present rumor, "Gnomeregan is going back to the gnomes". I have heard nothing definitive.


 * I am not trying to discredit your source or anything, but unless I see a link that goes to a news site known for its accuracy, I will not accept it either way - I have my own opinion, but it is precisely that, an opinion. --Joshmaul (talk) 15:15, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * It sounds like you skipped over what I said there lad. A Blizzard Developer stated this in an interview a couple of months ago. I don't have the exact link for you since I haven't seen it in a bit but I am sure you could pull it up on YouTube. If a Blizzard Developer is not enough to convince you, it is started on the Cataclysm FAQ (in the official Cataclysm forums) that there will be no new Cities. This FAQ is a sticky in the Cataclysm forums and everything has been confirmed to a degree by a Blue Poster. I'm not sure how much deeper proof can get than that. Things like Gnomregan is coming back and what not are rumors; they haven't even been talked about yet -- this has. -- TeeSon5 (talk) 15:56, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I am seriously considering slapping you silly for your impertinence...how dare you speak to Emperor Joshmaul the First in this manner! *ahem* Sorry. Mild case of megalomania. Anywho - I didn't skip over a thing. I merely asked for links, for evidence of your claims, and I have not received any. Speaking of skipping over things, you skipped over several disclaimers from the not-a-Blizzard developer - to be specific, it's a gnome warrior from Wyrmrest Accord - who authored the FAQ. Such as: "And I certainly could be wrong.. this is mostly educated guesses and speculation at this point." Or, from the latest post in this thread, as of this timestamp (about 1:50pm here): "However, keep in mind a lot of this is careful speculation, and as careful as I try to be I can still be wrong... occasionally."


 * In other words, the information in this FAQ is plausible, not confirmed. We can argue the point back and forth until we're blue in the face, but I don't think it will be concrete until either 1)Blizzard adds updates to the Cataclysm page and other new official stuff - screenshots and the like - or 2)the alpha and beta tests. Yeah, the alpha will factor into it, too...I know the alpha testers are under non-disclosure agreements, but no one seems to follow them. That's how I heard all the juicy details in the early days of Wrath of the Lich King. *chuckles* Grant you, the rumors seem to point in your favor, and for all I know you could be right (in which case, I will be the first to concede that), but the battle is not yet decided. We will see. --Joshmaul (talk) 18:50, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * A wise man once said, and I quote: "It sounds like you skipped over what I said there lad. A Blizzard Developer stated this in an interview a couple of months ago. I don't have the exact link for you since I haven't seen it in a bit but I am sure you could pull it up on YouTube." -- The hidden message in the mans words are that Blizzard Developers told us a LOT of stuff at Blizzcon in interviews and what not, information that was recorded, that is not on the Cataclysm page. Things that are in fact on the page, are explained in greater details in the interviews. The Blizzard Developers being interviewed in these videos are Blizzard Developers... meaning these people's occupation involves developing the game and they work for Blizzard. I don't see the confusion. TeeSon5 (talk) 18:59, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all, I'm not an idiot, so stop speaking to me like one. Secondly, I asked you for links to these videos (I could look this up myself, but since you seem to know it all, why don't you grace us, O Wise One? Preferably before I rip your lungs out for speaking to me so condescendingly) and your other so-called evidence. Again, NOTHING IS CONCRETE. What they say in August will change in December/January whatever, so you don't know if this will be the case or not. So stop acting all high and mighty, pal - I'm not impressed. --Joshmaul (talk) 20:11, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright this is where it ends... I don't want to continue this conversation with you after this final post from me. I never once called you stupid ... I was especially repetitive in my last posts because you completely refused to reference those points; it's not condescending, it's being a smart ass (not the same). I never called myself "high and mighty" ... you just took the wise man JOKE overboard and now are trying to put words in my mouth. Also, I never claimed to know it all. Now, if your not capable of finding the video on your own, thats nobody's fault but yours. I don't have a link for you because I don't feel like getting it (or remember). Also, a lot of things are concrete. The decision to give or not give (which is obviously not give) new races a capital city is concrete as the new races themselves. If they were going to give us a capital city, they would have to start a month ago and they would absolutely let us know by now. However, you can believe what you want ... thats your problem. I'll end this with something relative to the actual post -- had Blizzard better located the Exodar and Silvermoon city, I have no doubt they would be used more. Exodar is right near Darnassus ... making it a hassle to get to. -- TeeSon5 (talk) 20:23, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * As interesting as this discussion is, I'd like to hand out a short reminder for the both of you: please assume good faith. [[Image:IconSmall Amberrock.png]] AMBER (ЯΘ&#60;K)  02:12, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Gnomeragon and the Trolls
There's been loads of rumours flying around the web about the Gnomes retaking Gnomeragon, and to be honest, I don't like the idea of it. I mean, sure it would be cool to have a new Gnome city, but is there really any point. As we all know, Ironforge is the biggest Alliance city, and also the most active, so putting another main city right beside it seems pointless. If it is implemented, I doubt anyone (apart from the gnomes ofcourse) will actually go there. Perhaps it might be that present Gnomeragon will actu7ally become a new Gnome starting area? It is pretty small to be a zone, but it could always be extended.

Put, away from Gnomeragon for a minute, there's been even more rumours about the races of the Horde, bar Tauren, will be getting evicted from Orgrimmar by that maniac Hellscream. If this is true, then what about the trolls. Being evicted from their main city doesn't seem to be very good for them. People are saying that a new Troll city will be built! Perhaps due to being evicted from Orgrimmar, they might go to a new island and make that their new home, Tel'Abim anyone?

Of course this is all just speculation, and none of these rumours have been found to be true...


 * I hadn't heard about the supposed Orgrimmar eviction. Anyway I think it would be good from a lore standpoint if the gnomes did retake their city OR claimed another area, even if it's not used as an official "city" like Ironforge etc. That would eliminate any comments people have about the logic flaws associated with the Gnomer being a 25 instance that has remained that way so long. [[Image:Marks Spec RoundIcon.png]] Tazmantdr [[Image:WC3RoC_logo_16x32.png]] Talk Contr. 22:41, December 8, 2009 (UTC)