Talk:Rumored Races/Archive4

NEW RACE!?!?!
Is the New Race the Eredar? It sure sounds like it. GameSpy E3 Report --Xmuskrat 20:44, 8 May 2006 (EDT)

As the thunderous steps of Archimonde's army approached the summit of Mount Hyjal, all hope seemed lost. The camps of Jaina Proudmoore and the Warchief Thrall were overrun, and the forces of Archdruid Malfurian Stormrage were fighting for their life.

Then, the moment feared by all those fighting for the fate of Azeroth arrived. The Night Elf army was overrun, and the great Eredar warlock, destroyer of countless worlds, arrogantly marched to the World Tree. With flames surging in his eyes, he grasped the trunk with one vile claw... and the entire summit was shattered in a burst of brilliant, white light.

When the radiance faded, nothing remained of Archimonde but a charred skeleton, resting in the branches of the fatally-damaged Nordrassil. Malfurion, Jaina, and Thrall emerged from hiding; it was all an elaborate trap designed by Malfurion to take advantage of the demon's arrogance. In his lust for the World Tree's power, he did not notice the gathering flock of wisps take their positions around him and detonate themselves in a torrent of nature's fury.

With their commander gone, the remainder of the Burning Legion's army was cast into disarray. Malfurion and his companions escaped from the summit of Mount Hyjal, and the remaining Night Elves silently reflected upon the sacrifices of their Wisp companions.

Yet, the spirits of the Wisps lived on. Floating invisibly throughout Mount Hyjal and nearby Felwood, they began to slowly intertwine with the demons that had taken up residence there. Almost imperceptively their presence began to twist the forms and minds of the local Satyrs and other foul, demonic creatures.

Now, a handful of these creatures have been transformed in mind and body; they have the thoughts of the Night Elf spirits coarsing through their veins, yet their bodies mutated to take the form of the last creature the Wisps had made contact with -- the Eredar warlock, Archimonde.

Ashamed of their foul appearance, these creatures took into hiding beneath the roots of the shattered World Tree, Nordrassil. Despite their attempts to hide themselves from the outside world, they found themselves under constant seige from the demons who came to view them as abominations.

Now, with their very existance threatened, these Eredar -- demon in form, Night Elf in mind -- have made an impassioned plea to join the Alliance. Ehertlein 16:55, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

That definetly sounds like a description of Eredar- but I think Archimonde was supposed to be the only one with blue skin, just as Kil'jaeden is the only one with that particular red. The reviewer seems to think it's Draenei. If it is Eredar, the Nathrezim supporters weren't far off. --Ragestorm 06:18, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

Look at the photos! Oh boy, I am so excited. --Vorbis 18:27, 9 May 2006 (GMT) STOP PRESS: These pics appear to prove that the new race is indeed the demonic Eredar!


 * Non-demonic Eredar, ones that had escaped corruption of their homeworld? I hope this is true, it sounds way better than stupid draeneiBaggins 12:10, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * There is no such thing as an uncorrupted Eredar. They are by definition demons out of the twisting nether which formed the main generals of the Burning Legion. They ARE the burning Crusade. And they are no natural shapeshifters. I try to imagine an Eredar who is talking with Tyrande Whisperwind. I doupt she would believe anything he said.--Athistaur 13:24, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Aha! But that is where you may be wrong. We know -very little- about the Eredar. Here's my idea of what Blizz' explaination is:
 * Way back in the mists of time, the great champion of the Titans, Sargeras, discovered a race of depraved Warlocks. So alarmed with their all-consuming evilness, Sargeras locked these Eredar away in a corner of oblivion, not knowing that this race was to be his downfall. But what if they weren't all evil? What if good Eredar existed? We know too little about them to assume. It's not so difficult to imagine good Eredar - maybe they were exiled from their home planet for their 'crimes' (or maybe the other way round - the evil warlocks were banished to the planet Sargeras discovered), much in the same way as the Dark Templar of the Protoss in the other great Blizzard series, StarCraft. We can only assume for now. So, how did they get to the Alliance? Khadgar. Khadgar escaped through a portal in Warcraft 2, using the Skull of Gul'Dan. This portal may well have led to Eredun (or whatever the planet is called - or another planet if the 'Dark Templar' thing is true...) and thus Khadgar found himself with a bunch of Eredar. Now, he returns to Azeroth with his newfound allies, who will offer much needed guidance against the Burning Legion, no doubt their greatest enemy etc. etc.
 * We cannot tell for now. However, we can never be certain when we talk of new races. No lore is hard as a rock, especially that of the Eredar. --Vorbis 20:44, 9 May 2006 (GMT)


 * Actually I think there may have been a refrence to Eredar that they once were non-demonic, alien race with their own homeworld. Their warlocks however had all consuming evil and finally consumed their world, leading Sargeras to them apparently. I never really payed that refrence much mind, but now that Eredar may be a possible alliance race... who knows... Maybe it was an early hint put in lore to give use some clues for whoever was paying attention?


 * In anycase evil demon eredar would not make much sense as a race, since the Alliance organization backstory in the game says they "Loath all things demonic" in their character select lore. Plus we see more of what they thought of forbidden magics in the Kel'Thezud story. Even backstories for warlocks in the game make them out to be a secretive organization that hides in basements and dark corners of the alliance, unknown to most alliance members. Why would demons who hate humans even want to side with humans? Something tells me these are more than the standard Eredar, and are probably not connected to the burning legion...Baggins 14:24, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

That sure looks like an Eredar. Minor cinmatic note: Eredar only have two whiskers as opposed to this one's four, and that model places more emphasis on the tail. Also, Eredar are supposed to be at least 20 ft. tall. Not saying this disqualifies- these could be a less demonic subspecies. --Ragestorm 15:08, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * "'Eredar are supposed to be at least 20 ft'"
 * Well actually they can be at least 12 feet tall according to the rpg, but if one takes Kil'Jaeden explanation in Shadows & Light into account, at least for Kil'Jaeden, he is not only capable of changing his appearance to "deceave", he can also change his size, all in order to put those he goes before at ease, or to put them into awe... While not just any Eredar are capable of changing shape, maybe they all have a certain level of ability of changing their size?
 * As for characteristics details like amount of tentacles on their face? It seems to vary in different artistic renderings of the race... Some are shown to have tentacles coming out of the back of their heads, sometimes the tentacles appear to be more solid like horns. Kil'Jaeden's form as shown in the Shadows & Light shows him to have 4 tentacles on his face (where as archemonde only has 2), but he is also showing some Daemon traits as well.


 * Perhaps facial tentacles will be one of the characteristics one can alter like facial beards other races have?
 * ...or what we have here is a broken one.Baggins 15:36, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * I'm beginning to think that the Kool-Aid man is the likeliest race of all the shit we've came up to propose as the new race ... WTF have you gone insane ? Demons in the Alliance ? Undemonic Eredar ? Please stop foolin' around. Just wait until tomorrow for the official statements.--Kirochi 15:17, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Kirochi, you've just experienced Metzen's "WTF?" The "Oh, I guess that makes sense" will come tomorrow when they explain it. I expect it to go in much the way that Baggins and I have explained it. I remember looking at the WoW Art book and thinking "wouldn't it be interesting/cool to have Eredar as a playable race", then dismissing it as impossible...
 * That is an Eredar however, not a Draenei. Oh, and one extra thing I forgot to mention in my argument - Draenei are not Tauren-sized. --Vorbis

So not only can eredar apparently have different numbers of tentacles in different locations they can also have full beards too(ya we already knew some could have goatees from certain depictions), incredible... Vorbis how big do you think these Eredar are? Now if someone could just put up the video for these things...Baggins 16:00, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, someone said Tauren-sized, so I'd go with around 8 feet tall or so. I know Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde were titanic, but they were infused with magic and were the masters of their race. From what we've seen from the video pics and Warcraft 3, I see no reason to doubt this label then. I've seen another mural pic somewhere - it's of a Blood Elf fighting an Eredar in Grand Marshal armour... --Vorbis


 * Well 8 feet closer to the 12 feet of the rpg I suppose. 12 foot tall creature would probably have problems getting through doorways in the game... So they may need to be scaled down simply to fit the game's current world scale-Baggins 16:12, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * My bet is - It's people! It's PEOPLE!  Check out the pictures of a mage and paladin in this thread.--Aeleas 16:34, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

You know the odds that humans would mutate into something that looks like the various interpretations of Eredar made by Metzen, Samwise and other blizzard artists over the years, seems highly improbable to me. I mean there are billions of possible ways to mutate and they just happen to end up looking exactly like Eredar? I don't buy it... I guess will just have to wait until tomorrow when blizzard announces what ever the hell they are... But I still think they are some kind of eredarBaggins 18:22, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * If the eredar are the very source of that corruption, then I think it makes perfect sense. It also would explain the similarlity to the demonically corrupted Broken: both were on a convergent path.  And come on, tell me that's not Khadgar. :) --Aeleas 18:32, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

As weird as that is, Aeleas, that could be the missing link- the Alliance Expediation mutated into Eredar-like beings... and in light of the fact that a mural of Illidan was also at E3, that mage and paladin could be Khadgar and Turalyon. --Ragestorm 18:36, 9 May, 2006 (EDT)

Well I'm definitley not going to state is Khadger without any written evidence to back it up. I can't say it isn't khadger for the same reason. Well it certainly doesn't look like Khadgar anymore... As for turyon he'd be old too where's his beard,and how did he avoid shaving the tendrils? I just can't wait until tommorrow so we finally hear what the hell is up with this stuffBaggins 18:47, 9 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Out of curiosity what armor set is the old guy wearing? Is it something in the game already? Is it definitely a "mage" armor set? There are things about his armor that remind me of the various priest sets that have been released so far... Its kind of hard for me to tell...Baggins 00:40, 10 May 2006 (EDT)


 * So WTF, Draenei have been a subspecies of Eredar for ever? What the hell happened to draenei are a shamanistic culture idea... How the hell do draenei become paladinds and priests?Baggins 09:45, 10 May 2006 (EDT)


 * *dances so happily that he opens a portal to Outland* YAAAAYYYYY TEH DR43N3III xD At lasttttt we know what this damn race is and screw all the other ones, let's make a big party ! *collapses into coma* --Kirochi 10:17, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

The WTF? came across my mind, yes. But it just don't makes any sense, sorry. - Eredar ARE demons from the twisting nether, they have been since millenias. Unlikly their decendants would be pure and friendly followers of the holy light. - Dranei have a shamanistic culture, where did it go ? - Dreanor was destroyed, only the broken could survive. Where do they come from? - Even if they are what they are... still most alliance members would attack them on sight. - Blizzard said they would be already in the lore. This is not true. The lore of the Dranei(eredar) says they were a normal race 25.000 years ago and sargeras corrupted them with his burning legion. <-> The lore of history of warcraft says the eredar(dranei) were demons from the twisting nether(and from the beginning of time) and depressed Sargeras, only then the dreadlords were able to corrupt him. So, if the new lore is right nobody depressed Sargeras, meaning nobody was able to corrupt him...anyone else feeling like this is a bad joke?


 * Ahah I was right, it looks like right all along Eredar weren't originally evil, and Draenei are a faction of eredar that broke off and left their homeworld when it looked like their race was going to go evil.Baggins 14:44, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

= Arias = Dude, stop ****ing around with the Pandaren and Furbolg. There has not been an official debunk of Pandaren, and the revenge connection to Outland for the Furbolgs is entirely plausible. Also, Kirochi's gonna start shooting people if you mess around with the Likeliness column anymore. --Adonzo 20:44, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

Good points. Why can't I edit anymore either? On the Furbolg points: 1. See above and 2. Orcs can technically transform into human pirates. So bloody what? --Vorbis 19:04, 1 May 2006 (GMT)


 * Haven't paid a look to what's been done already but you're freaking me out. I'M A SHOOTING STARRRT xD. I hope not much damage was done (OMG I love wikis for their history panel 8) ) To Vorbis: What the hell ? Why can't you edit ? lmao. And how can the Orcs shapeshift ?--Kirochi 14:23, 1 May 2006 (EDT)


 * If I could count the number of times I tried to get likeliness off that page. I mean, everybody has their own opinion on what is more/less likely.  --Xmuskrat 15:25, 1 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Kirochi: either get a Savoury Deviant Delight or one of the Halowe'en wands, and enjoy. Anyway, even if the quest does involve turning into a furbolg, so what? Isn't the fact that so many people love being that furbolg that they should have a furbolg race and remove the quest? Or whatever. And Xmuskrat, I agree. People just get so annoying when they put their own classifications in because, of course, they are biased and they haven't considered every last point... --Vorbis 16:38, 2 May 2006 (GMT)


 * The thing is, even if you do consider every point all of the points are just observations. It's not based on anything more then observations.  In the end, Blizzard will make the descision on what it is and where it goes, and it will have to do with a lot of things we hardly talk about on here.  Things like their likes/dislikes at the moment, market share of a country we don't live in, and how to fix the server load problem.  In the end, what races come up will be as much of a surprise to me as it was before.  However, this is very detailed and organized with lots of opinions.  It's not out of the question that Blizzard might read this page and it might influence the races to come in WoW.  --Xmuskrat 12:00, 2 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Thanks for the shapeshifting thing Vorbis. Also for the Furbolg quest, we can easily say the same thing for the Dire Maul quest where you have to disguise into an Ogre. But I think that everything will be changed in BC, even there will be BC servers and WoW servers.
 * To Xmuskrat : it's not out of question that Blizzard has many things else to do than paying a look at a fan page ;-) Or maybe the community managers will put a link on the official WoW front page but that's all.--Kirochi 12:33, 2 May 2006 (EDT)

= Are we gonna leave the wisps there? = DevilDude Are we gonna leave that silly wisp thing up? it was an april fools joke and not to mention impossible... We already flagged this as an April fool's joke, so yes, we're going to leave them here ^^--Kirochi 13:24, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

= Restarting the Rumored Races page =

This section of WoWWiki has gone completely out of control. I mean, I like the idea of people presenting their ideas for the Alliance race, but now we're getting in to player races in general, and even races that people aren't taking the time to logically go "would that even work?" Seriously, this page is now more of a creature index than a playable race index.

I'm suggesting that we clear this page off, start back at ground zero with what we know and what we've been told. We list the main races that are mentioned from the Alliance and Horde Compendium as our main suggested races, then open up a separate stub for the other suggested races. Either that, or we restart this whole page at Rumored_Alliance_Races to ease confusion. We can continue the discussion here for regular races, and why taking random things out of the Burning Crusade and Warcraft bestiary and slapping the "ZOMG Alliance Race" tag on them seems to work so well.

Here's the starter list, by the way:

The Alliance

Humans

Ironforge Dwarves Wildhammer Dwarves High Elves Night Elves

Gnomes

Half-Elves

The Horde Orcs Tauren Jungle Trolls

Independent Factions

Blood Elves

Furbolgs

Goblins Half-Orcs

Naga

Pandaren

Just my two cents. --DarkAngel ZERO 10:52, 20 April 2006 (EDT)


 * This page is a flat list of races that really could go either way. Blood Elves obviously are not an independent faction, as they are in the Horde.  Blizzard can write the lore however they wish to place a race in either the Horde or the Alliance.  I think there should be specific criteria to be on that list: the being must be intelligent, have a language, and be able to exist within the current laws and structure of either the Horde or the Alliance.  We could debate even more on the criteria.  However, picking what sides races will land up on is pure conjecture, and trying to say what's likely or not is basically ignoring the fact that everybody feels different races are more/less likely.  --Xmuskrat 15:32, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

= Dark Trolls =

Thricej37 made some good points on the Dark Trolls page regarding them as a possible new Alliance Race. Perhaps they should be considered on the official Rumored Races page? (Just a suggestion, take it as you will.) --Strawberree 16:37, 9 Mar 2006 (EST)


 * Well, why not ? It's not odder than anything else ! The only thing is : Just do it. Find reasons & arguements, by yourself or from Thricej37's points, a pic and voila =)--Kirochi 12:13, 10 Mar 2006 (EST)


 * I don't see the relation to outland? --Dotted 06:11, 29 March 2006 (EST)


 * That's fine. The races don't have to make sense to be on this page anymore. --Kakwakas


 * A little harsh, but increasingly true. This article started as a page for the rumored new Alliance race in Burning Crusade, but soon became a catchall page for any possible future playable races. --Fandyllic 6:30 PM PST 29 Mar 2006

Demons
Demons?

Altho i find kinda weird if it would be demons.

But after reading the missing leaves part, i believe more and more in the Furbolgs :) --Dotted 09:38, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

Nice mock-up of Nathrezim here. --holgaard 17:05, 20 April 2006 (CEST)

= Draenei = ''Moved to Draenei in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive2. --Fandyllic''

More Draenei
Hey, am I stupid or did Thricej37 point an EXCELLENT fact ? Most of the currently playable races had no female model till WoW. I think that the argument "no female model previously seen" should be entirely deleted ! (and of course, it's a pity but what Thricej37 posted has to be deleted, your idea was excellent but it's not a + in any way). I'll do it if nobody disapproves of (meaning tomorrow if this gets no answer)--Kirochi 19:39, 11 Mar 2006 (EST)


 * Is that really true? It seems like that several races had no generic female models, but had individual character models of specific races (named females). However, my memory of WC3 and before is kinda hazy. --Fandyllic 9:48 AM PST 12 Mar 2006


 * Are you talking about female heroes ? I've put them in the RR page, pay a look. If not, please explain yourself (curse my English)--Kirochi 13:25, 12 Mar 2006 (EST)

Draenei Likelihood
''Previous vote and discussion moved to Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive3... No new comments since January 2006. --Fandyllic''

= Drakonid = ''Rumor moved to Drakonids Rumor page by Toloran. --Fandyllic''

All the posts on the WoW forums regarding it get deleted. =\ In any case, I can't say much to the validity because I haven't done any quests regarding BWL (where teh Drakonids appear). However: + They are a "cool" race. + They can fit current armor and weapons. + They can ride a mount (tail might get in the way though). + Already in the game and in the lore. - Relation to outlands? -- Toloran 12:57, 10 April 2006


 * Unhuh, he just HAPPENED to lose the pictures and JUST HAPPENED to find the page info in the chache. Also, every other post regarding the Murlocs, Pandarens, AND Draenai are almost instantly deleted. Yeah... I am still with Pandaren. :) -- Seris


 * Yeah the excuses are getting old and rather lame. Please move this stuff to a its own page, like Drakonids Rumor and link to it here. It's wasting space in the discussion area. It sounds like a less well thought out version of the Worgen Rumor. --Fandyllic 6:17 PM PDT 13 Apr 2006


 * I agree that it is probably just a hoax (I find it well written at least). As Fandyllic suggested, since there is currently no Drakonids Rumor page, I might as well make one. BTW: If it DOES (by some fluke) end up being true, do i get to say "I told you so" :D --Toloran 21:36, 13 April 2006 (EDT)


 * i honestly thought it was horribly written. Spelling was consistent and whatnot, but it has nowhere near the polish of the Blood Elf page, or even the Worgen Rumor.--Adonzo 23:06, 13 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I added some reasons why it's probably a hoax to the Drakonids Rumor page. --Fandyllic 10:32 PM PDT 13 Apr 2006


 * Given that the Drakonids only have Cons and no Pros I'm for moving them to Unlikely. If any one disagrees then they need to post a Pro Drakonid reason.--Evil Iggy 22:37, 29 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I disagree, and I think Xmuskrat, Fandyllic and the other members that remember the awful situation we lived towards this page a few months ago will follow me : NO UNLIKELINESS SCALE OR SO HELP ME GOD ! If you really want to be useful just knock all races to "Possible" for future expansions.--Kirochi 06:15, 30 April 2006 (EDT)
 * While that post is well.. lets not go there.. there is a possibility of it being the new alliance race. Lets just go through a few possibilities. The Black Dragonflight is (more or les) evil. Deathwing has a lair in outland. So it wont be Black. Reds have always hated the Black flight. So it could be red. The Bronze flight is busy in Silithus, the Green is busy in the Emerald Dream, and the Blue are busy trying to rebuild. That leaves the red alone. It's possible they would be the ones. It's also very possible that Chromatic Dragons could be the one. As stated, they fit into armor. Their size can be changed (Note Ogres and their varied sizes) For Red, which is the more unlikely, they could be seeking a way to find Deathwing and using the Alliance's already created Dark Portal is one. Chromatic, however, seems more likely. We dont know if Chromatic Dragons are completly enslaved or just being tricked like Rend's Horde. If they were free, a powerful Chromatic dragon, possibly the most powerful of them, could break Nefarion's hold. Immediatly the Chromatic dragon would flee with any other free dragons. Ofcourse, this race of artificial dragons wouldn't be accepted by the other dragon flights. But the Alliance may, in time, take the powerful ally. It's not known if the Chromatic flight are sentient or not. And even if they were, there are two breeds of Chromatic: Deathwing's (using the Demon soul) and Nefarion's (Noone really knows how he makes chromatic dragons without the Soul) They can be explained by lore, especially Chromatic flight. And thing, how awesome would it be for your faction leader to be a huge, flying dragon? Since Chromatic dragons have a bit of each flight in them, they could take different shades of colors, different facial features, different horns, and hair. I say, atleast somewhat likely. --Shinyou 12:46, 2 May 2006

= Ethereals = ''Moved Ethereals test results to to Talk:Rumored Races Test... --Fandyllic''


 * Well, thanks for using the test on your race, but PLEASE move this to the talk page of the test !--Kirochi 13:31, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

More Ethereals
Put any more comments you have about Ethereals here...

= Forest Trolls = The lack of connection to outlands.. couldnt they possibly want revenge? like go to the outlands to kick some more blood elf butt? aswell as theyr leaders? What's everyone's opinion on them anyway? 1. Would you like them as a new race?. 2. Why or why not? 3. What would you like instead if you dont want them?

I quote the BC bestiary - After centuries of war and hate, an alliance of elves and humans finally dealt a crushing blow to the Amani when they defeated a great troll army at the foot of the Alterac Mountains. The empire did not recover from the defeat, and the trolls never rose as one nation again. Yet some forest trolls survived, each generation nurturing their hatred of the elves in the dark forests of the north for thousands of years. During the Second War, the Amani trolls were briefly allied to the Horde, and the forest troll Zul'jin was one of the greatest heroes the trolls have ever known. Also, the fact that they're in the bestiary seems to point that they won't be playable. Doesn't seem to me that they'll be playable, and as someone who RPs an Amani, I hope they won't. -Zebogo

Well that alliance consisted of 100 humans, and that was only at the end of the war. They had been at war for thousends of years before that little alliance. "Time later, Forest Trolls from Zul'Aman raided Silvermoon almost extinguishing the High Elf population. A high elf emissary was sent to Strom in Arathi Highlands to seek help from the Humans. The Humans agreed to help the High Elves in exchange of teaching them magic. Nodding, the High Elves accepted to teach Humans and created the Alliance. A hundred humans were taught magic and helped battle the Trolls. " Also them being in the beastiary could also be precieved as a hint :). The fact is that all of those things in the bestiary were new except the forest trolls. Forest trolls are all over WoW, but they look like shit -.- Atm they look like jungle trolls that have been painted green with water paint... Light sickly green, and not only theyr skin, but also theyr hair, armor and weapons... it's pretty stupid. Frankly ill just be happy if they update that model so they actually look like what they looked like in the Warcraft 2 concept art.


 * The Forest trolls may also include a large amount of trolls that were part of the horde during the second war and came to Dranear. If they were stranded, or ended up using the same rift as the alliance expeditions did, it makes sense for them to be allied with the alliance in what world they may have found. We know that 3 zones outside outlands will be connected via portals. That is 3 zones that are on other worlds than ours or outlands that will have portals active to them at the start. It's reasonable for these to be starting levels for the alliance race. This could mean Draenri or it could mean forest trolls. If you think trolls, it's reasonable enough if you have it be trolls trapped with alliance on a strange world where they could get along or die.

= Furbolg =

Furbolg Q and A
''Moved to Furbolg Q and A in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive. --Fandyllic''

More about Furbolgs
Continue here, if you want...

= Goblins =

Switched the Goblins with the Nerubian, due to more positive reasons and to the fact that neutral is much better than hatred to Scourge.--Kirochi 15:56, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Good move. --Xmuskrat 14:11, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Thanks a lot ^^. I'm not very gifted in the finding of arguments, so I try to do my best in fixing the articles. I also think that turning this list in a template would be incredibly more useful than changing manually everytime three or four lines just to update a few reasons ^^--Kirochi 15:56, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

"- How would Neutral cities remain neutral ?" &mdash; There are some humans there in Booty Bay that are neutral, and there are several in the Venture Co. that are hostile, along with the Defias Brotherhood. This should be italic or at best unbolded, IMO. Anyone disagree? Schmidt 22:55, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * In WarCraft 2 the Goblins were allies of the Orcs. And they were suicide bombers, so that means they were VERY attached to their cause. The Goblins are like the Swiss, they can meet any side if they have sufficient reasons, but they also can have faith and believe in a cause.

Some Goblins also allied the Defias Brotherhood so they were especially hostile to the Alliance. Mind that.--Kirochi 15:28, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

Funn thing I find, Goblins were in the running for the Alliance race back before gnomes were added

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/insider/metzen-interview.shtml

Metzen Interview for the win --Mecheon 07:59, 29 April 2006 (EDT)

= High Elves =

Making High Elves Unlikely from Possible
''Moved to Making High Elves Unlikely from Possible in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive. --Fandyllic''

More High Elves
This will NOT be the race as the lore posted by blizz states that the night elves would never realign with the naga (azshara and her highborne) nor the high elves (aside from the shendar in DM they are all now blood elves or dead) due to fundamental differences in approach to magic.

To bring the high elves would mean the loss of the night elves. --Noct 11:12, 7 March 2006


 * Not exactly. Look at the respect given to Kael by Maiev and Tyrande when they visited Lordaeron in TFT - and he was a Blood Elf, using far more chaotic magic than the High Elves. I'm sure the Night Elves, haughty and bigheaded though they may be, wouldn't mind allying with the lesser of two evils if it means that they can give help; especially if that lesser evil is only descended from the old enemy and not the enemy itself. Remember this quote? "To err is human; to forgive, divine." - Alexander Pope.


 * Anyway, the High Elves are already in the Alliance - the multiple Lodges as well as Stormwind and Theramore. Remember that the High Elves, lorewise, still have a larger population than the Darkspear Trolls and possibly even the (untainted) Gnomes. --Vorbis 14:21, 9 Apr 2006 (GMT)

= Nathrezim =

This race of demons seem weird too, but have a lot of points in their favor.
 * + is already in the game.
 * + is already in the lore.
 * + has a strong connection to Outland.
 * + is unexpected.
 * + is said to be "cool".
 * + is not pretty.
 * + seems unlikely on first glance.
 * + makes sense once explained.
 * + is able to talk and think.
 * + is humanoid and wears stuff.
 * + can ride mounts and griffons.
 * - is strongly evil.
 * - wings(however, they never used those anywhere)

There is a "rumor page" around, with unconfirmed origin.

While demons walking happily through Ironforge is indeed weird(like Infernals and succubus), the rumor states that the racial ability of the Dreadlords is to disguise as humans. This allowed them to infilitrate the alliance and is taken as explanation why this race is accepted.

--Athistaur 07:56, 20 April 2006 (EDT)
 * - has got to be the most absurd suggestion since wisps --Adonzo 04:10, 20 April 2006 (EDT)


 * O M G. That actually DOES make sense! After some explaining, that DOES make sense! If this is fake, it is one of the best I have EVER seen. This is what I put my trust in now! - Seros


 * An extremely well done fake, but like with all fakes, someone slips up on the spelling of something, because they don't have professional editors working on it. "...to the caves of Jadenar", but they came so close, if they could have only remembered it's Jaedenar. Of course this doesn't count the total ridiculousness of a race that only has ultra-powerful elite members until they some how become playable as noobs in disguise. --Fandyllic 6:45 PM PDT 20 Apr 2006


 * Puh-lease ! Put the test on its talk page ! And by the way, the fake is excellent, I almost trusted it ^^--Kirochi 13:35, 21 April 2006 (EDT)


 * It does say Jaedenar.... - The Unknown Dude


 * It actually was Jadenar, I'm an eyewitness. Someone changed it. Seros, stop trying to hide yourself behind stupid names such as 'The unknown dude', it's not very clever.--Kirochi 15:37, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

That page's spelling is horrible; it's not the words Blizzard made up, the writer mispelled "slaughter"- also, the grammer doesn't match the sort of thing that Blizzard usually uses. A lore problem: the page acts under the assumption that the Dreadlords were coerced into serving the Legion ("And most of all, they'll never bow to the Burning Legion ever again"); they weren't. Kil'jaeden recruited them, and they were the only willing recruits. Population: those Dreadlords trapped in Azeroth wouldn't number more than a few hundred at most, and those left alive would number even less. Powers: Dreadlords are too powerful for users to play- they're demonic vampire sorcerors. And for one more lore detail: they ARE the Burning Crusade- as fragmented as the Alliance is, they're trying to stop it, not become it. --Ragestorm 14:57, 21 April 2006 (EDT)


 * The change on the page from Jadenar to Jaedenar just proves that Seros is the author or has contact with the author of the fake. I'm sure there were several other people who saw that it said Jadenar before it was "corrected". Very sly otherwise, but now we know you are willing to lie to try to fake people out which makes your credibility drop pretty fast. Seros, you are very foolish not to know that anyone can look at this page's  to see you said, "It does say Jaedenar....". --Fandyllic 2:10 P PDT 21 Apr 2006


 * Maybe my fault i can't agree with your perception of grammar.
 * About Lore, Kil'jaeden didn't recruit them, he enslaved them. You'll find this on the official background on www.worldofwarcraft.com. If this has been changed there lately(to enslave), it would rather be a point towards these demons.
 * And further, the number of the Dreadlords is with a few hundred(you'll find a lot of them in the blasted lands) perfectly at player population level.
 * The powerful Dreadlords you mean, were the century old leaders (and have been mostly killed). There is no doupt that younger Dreadlords are far weaker. (For example they were on the same level as a Paladin in WC3).
 * There isn't said they try to become alliance themselves. And the Bloodelves used to be members of the Burning Legion as well, till Blizzard messed with their background to fit.
 * The change on the page indicate that it's not leaked from Blizzard. However like other rumors this doesn't mean the guess has to be wrong. And the original isn't necessary from the same hands as the page we see now.
 * --Athistaur 17:34, 21 April 2006 (EDT)


 * I was not the original auther of this, nor do I have contact to him. I do not haves the required skill in HTML for it to be this complicated.     And for the record, that was my account, but not me that poasted "the unknown dude". I let my friend loose on here, bad idea on my part. My bad. -- Seros


 * Sorry about the trouble i caused you Seros. Indeed I'm the original author, so blame me. The spelling sliped me because I'm german and no native english speaker. After all it looks like my guess was one of the better ones. So long, --Athistaur 13:57, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

= Nerubians = ''Moved to Nerubians in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive2. --Fandyllic''

More Nerubians
Continue here, if you want...

I Stebbinator think that if the Nerubians would be the next Alliance race it's just stupid 4 legs(just like dryads and centaurs) it would be to complicated and aren't the Nerubians part of the Scourge).Well it's just weird. --Stebbinator

= Gaming Steve =

Gaming Steve just posted our Rumors page as his top story. Funny, that this page also mentions him as a dubious source. --Xmuskrat 09:37, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * http://www.gamingsteve.com/archives/2005/12/world_of_warcra_4.php, This "rumor" is fake, and the author has long wise stated it was photoshopped. Just like the fake image of the character selection screen. It should not be listed as a Plus. CJ 09:47, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * Second, the pandaren have been debunked a number of times at the blizzard forums as well. possibly due to the chinese goverment not apreciating the idea of people "bashing up pandas". the rumor could just have been raised to get some attention though.. and Pandaren likely were never planned, because they "are" just an april fool's joke. CJ 09:51, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * CJ, these are RUMORS. None of the things listed are "real".   I want to encourage people to add rumors to rumor pages and keep them out of real articles.   This is the place for them.  --Xmuskrat 10:00, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)

= More Murloc Information! =

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/murloclore/murlocs.html

Also at Official Info section of Murloc.

= Ogres =

Ogres (original thread)
''Moved to Ogres in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive3. --Fandyllic''

More Ogres

 * 1) Why the heck was the discussion removed ? It had points which had to be explained ! Don't be such a pussy and take off your text when you see we don't agree with you !
 * 2) What is that ?--Kirochi 16:43, 4 Mar 2006 (EST)


 * check the archive.
 * there's a quest that turns you into an ogre. --Kakwakas 16:45, 4 Mar 2006 (EST)


 * I didn't wait for you to do that, I knew the author removed it himself, but deleting stuff is stupid. Don't you see that deleting information keeps us from the reality ? We have to know that, to debunk false points to prevent somebody else from having wrong ideas, and to enforce right points to make people consider them. This was a typical example of useful ideas posting, may they be wrong or right. We have to criticize them but NOT to delete them !
 * Thank you then. Which quest is it ? Is it a class quest ? How do you get turned into an Ogre ?--Kirochi 17:47, 4 Mar 2006 (EST)

= Quilboar =

I personally believe that quillboar fit the bill exactly for the new Alliance race. I won't go into it but everything is there - a common enemy, armor models, plotline from previous quests, Kalimdor starting zone, a fit for Chris Metzen's comments.

Also, I notice that your lists don't relly take armor into account. I believe the new races will need to fit cleanly into existing armor sets. You noted the four legged races, but I don't see ogres, pandas, etc fitting into the models we have without SERIOUS rework.

Another thing, yes the expansion will focus on Outland, but it is about the Burning Legion too. The god of the quillboar, Agamaggan, battled the Burning Legion in ancient times.

this is my first wiki post ever, so forgive me.


 * Notice that armor in WoW already scales from the tiny Gnome to the mighty Tauren. Weapons and armor both scale.  If a race like Pandaren or Ogres were slightly bigger then Tauren, they'd just set a slightly larger scale.  --Xmuskrat 12:48, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)

Yay, but please try to take your Alliance character in the middle of a Quillboar group and try to survive more than ten seconds ... (excepting the PvP-thirsty-Horders)--Kirochi 05:01, 29 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * Take your Alliance character in the middle ofx an ogre, Draenei (Lost Ones), furbolg (any but Timbermaw), human (Defias), night elves (Druids of the Fang), etc. camp and try to survive more than 10 seconds... The factions that are currently in are hostile, yes, but all of them in possible existance may not be. --Kakwakas 16:43, 5 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Blizzard will write the correct lore to allow any race that they deem 'fun'.  One of their FAVORITE tricks is this 'tribe' mentality.  They're is always room for a small group of a race who act however a story, or new faction relationship, might need.  --Xmuskrat 10:17, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Defias are renegades, as the Druids of the Fang, so these examples don't match. But I agree that any Horde or Alliance race have it's renegades.--Kirochi 12:32, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * The correct spelling is Quilboar (one L), so I'm changing it where it seems sensible. Also, although there is a quilboar who gives quests to players and aids them with rewards, this quilboar name Mangletooth only gives quests to Horde players, so that doesn't indicate any friendliness to the Alliance. --Fandyllic 2:12 PM PST 1 Mar 2006

= Pandaren = ''Previous discussion moved to Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive3... No new comments since January 2006. --Fandyllic''

Redridge Settlement and Katricia Comments
''Previous discussion moved to Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive3... No new comments since January 2006. --Fandyllic''

Pandaren Likelihood
''Moved to Pandaren Likelihood in Talk:Rumored_Races/Archive. --Fandyllic''

More Pandaren Likelihood
Continue here, if you want...

Moved from User talk:Fandyllic...

Fandyllic, I know you're an admin, but the Pandaren had been locked to Possible. And we voted. Please respect our vote. There were only three votes against the Pandaren likelihood at the time it was locked. Don't act as somebody who doesn't listen to the people.--Kirochi 16:24, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I'd really like to be gracious and say okay, but considering the winning margin was 4 yes to 3 no and the lock was going to be at only 4 votes (seems very low to me), that is a very weak argument to lock Pandaren at possible. This isn't the Supreme Court, so I don't have to repsect a 1 vote margin, so I'm not going to.
 * Also, how can you vote on the truth of a rumor? The best way to set a rumor is by evidence you find, not voting. That's just silly. Also, if you're going to vote, you should at least get alot of people to support it and have only a few against. The pandaren vote was very weak.
 * If you really want people (including me) to respect a vote, start a new vote and see if you get alot more Pandaren = Possible yes votes than no votes. I bet you won't, but you can try. If you meet the requirements of the Voting policy, then I will respect your vote and try to make sure other people do also.
 * --Fandyllic 9:21 AM PST 17 Jan 2006


 * Perhaps we should find more then 9 people who care. I've never seen a vote here break into the double digits.  I startd the vote, not Kirochi.  I didn't start the vote to try to pad it, or to go out and get people in, or register new fake people to make the vote win.  I did it to see what the community wanted.  I didn't believe that running a vote would show me how much negative energy would be created.  I guess I can't expect you to be gracious over difficult, so I'll just hope for policy.  If  we still can't follow that, I'll just contribute my energy elsewhere.  --Xmuskrat 13:24, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * How about implementing a Progressive Voting System, in which we designate a certain number of votes necessary to lock a vote, i.e., 4 minimum, then once that number is hit, the item in question can be changed. For example, 4 people vote for Pandaren to be locked at Possible.. 4 people vote accordingly and Pandaren is labelled Possible. Then, what makes it progressive, if another four people vote for Unlikely, the Pandaren liklihood will then change to Unlikely, seeing as to how the Progressive Vote has shifted. Then, if another 4 people vote for Possible, the liklihood will AGAIN change back to Possible. Thus the Progress Voting system remains in perpetual motion, as it should on a constantly changing site such as this. --Anticrash 15:04, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I'm now sure of what I want. It's not up to us to decide the likelihood of any race. As Xmuskrat said, the best way to me is putting the whole races in an alphabetical order and forget about the likelihood and the war of the members. Just keep the positive, negative and neutral points. I'll start a vote about that.--Kirochi 15:33, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Well, then visitors would have to read the points and make up their own mind? *gasp*  What would we have to fight about?  --Xmuskrat 15:36, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Hehe, sounds frightening, doesn't it ? (-: --Kirochi 15:45, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * The page isn't locked. You can make whatever changes you want. Even if we remove likelihood, I'm sure people will argue about the order the races appear. Nobody has given good reasons to make Pandaren likelihood Possible yet, as far a I can tell, just arguing about how voting should be done and what constitutes a legitimate vote. I argued that Possible is wrong because there isn't enough good evidence.
 * Anticrash, put your progressive voting idea on the Voting policy page if you are serious about it. It sounds way too convoluted for me, but it is still a valid idea. I just don't want this Pandaren thing to have a special voting system that isn't clearly explained. Also the progressive system still has the flaw that the winning side can perpetually win by 1 vote which makes it a weak majority. I'm totally against 1 vote majorities.
 * --Fandyllic 12:53 PM PST 17 Jan 2006


 * The Voting thing isn't a big deal to me. I was just offering up a solution to the argument at hand. Although I'm sure a defined voting system would be handy in the future... when the time comes we can all get together and create a specific system so we can avoid conflicts like this. --Anticrash 10:54, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

something missed: i've been on the forums over at wow since october. between christmas and new years blue finally replied in a spec thread in suggestions saying that pandaren were not the race because "the new race proves that the BL has been destructive to more universes than just the one that Azeroth is in." this would suggest it's something ENTIRELY NEW. barring completely new, only draenei have ties to outland in the lore posted on worldofwarcraft.com, and would be the only logical possibility at that point --noct 3/7/2006
 * Sounds like Worgen... you have a link? - Potbasher 03:41, 26 April 2006 (EDT)

= Worgen =

Urk... Who went and listed worgen as 'possible'? I knocked 'em back down to 'unlikely.' There's next to NO evidence that worgen could be an Alliance race. I'm sorry, but no matter how much you want to be a werewolf, the chances of it happening are slim to nil. --Kakwakas 18:06, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I put them up there, only becasue I read a ton of people on the forums who thought it should be higher. I really don't believe they have a chance in hell.  Still, I wanted to help out people too stupid to be able to push the edit button.  --Xmuskrat 18:12, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Think of their being too stupid to press the edit button as a natural failsafe for things TOO terrible to get out of hand. =p From what I've read (and I know a fair amount of WC lore, if I do say so myself), Draenei, ogres, and furbolgs are the most possible races.  I consider Quillboar somewhat possible, though.  But alas, no one will listen to me.  Maybe if I publish a magazine named "Gaming Kakwakas" people will actually believe me... --Kakwakas 18:20, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I'm just trying to average out what people in general think--to be objective. There is a sheer ton on Pandaren related lore in the WoW RPG, and Chris Metzen basically approved all the lore himself.  I'd love to play a Pandaren.  Still, it didn't stop me from moving it to possible until there was an offical denoucement from Blizzard.  --Xmuskrat 18:34, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Yes, and that's why I didn't complain about pandaren being marked possible. I highly doubt that pandaren will be playable, but there is some evidence.  What's really annoying me the most is people having either no source for their points, or using pure rumor and stating it like it's a fact.  Have you read that "Races Essay" that's linked at the bottom of the page?  It's enough to make a loremonger cry. --Kakwakas 18:40, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Yeah. Part of this talk page is for us to talk about the lines there, and where we can't prove lore from a source edit them up.  I mean, it's a rumors page.  So it should be allowance for some amount of speculation, barring direct lies or stuff totally 100% made up and unobservable in game.  I'm also up for redesigning the race as a template with each bulletpoint having a 'source' link.  --Xmuskrat 18:44, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

Important ! Just switched Worgen from "Unlikely" to "Very Unlikely" because of the amount of negative reasons and the only positive one which was unfair towards the others.--Kirochi 12:26, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Seems like a good reason to me. --Xmuskrat 14:13, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

Uh, guys, what about the whole "Scythe of Elune" quest series? In it you find a group of Worgen defending an elven ruin in Ashenvale, and a holographic epitaph leads you on a quest to find a Scythe of Elune. Through this quest you find that the Scythe was a sacred artifact given by Elune to one of her priests, allowing dimensional portals to be torn and Worgen summoned from a paralell world. The quest line leads to Darkshire and explains that after being summoned by the Scythe, the Worgen began to summon more Worgen. They seem to be sacred creatures to Elune, similar to the Wildkin. The Scythe of Elune was also mentioned in a quest in Redridge Mountain, where it turned out that the Warlock Morganth didn't have it after all. It would be nice to have their Night Elf connections labeled as a +.

On the horde side they seem evil due primarily to their connections to Arugal and their hunting of the Forsaken in the region, but the Moonrage Worgen seem only partially connected to the Worgen summoned by the Scythe. Whether or not they're going to be an expansion race now, they seem too popular and full of potential to be ignored. --ReleeSquirrel 9:50, 18 Jan, 2006 (EST)
 * if you actually look at the Worgen lore, you'll find that they are simply from another world. the scythe of elune had the power to summon them, and arugal also found out how to do so.  im not sure just HOW Arugal and the Scythe were capable of controlling the Worgen.  But either way, what, exactly, are the odds of these chaotic and murderous creatures being sacred to Elune, of all people?--Adonzo 02:59, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the penninsula on silverpine forest that is currently unreachable. The theory was there was a great wall erected to keep out the scourge but the worgen eventually broke through. All were infected but not all became brainless beasts. A war was started between the ones that retained thier minds and the brainless monsters. Simple enough the alliance helps the war effort down there. Or even more likely to even out the race per continent, the intelligent worgen were losing and the alliance merely showed up and shipped em out. Brought them to darkshore or something like that, and in time they migrated to hyjal, another inaccessable area. No one said that the burning crusade happened over night, could be years between the expansion world and the world we know now. My theory makes more sense when you read the article for them here.

Isn't this part of Kul'tiras ? (I must be wrong)--Kirochi 14:26, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

= Debunks = As quoted by blizzard.


 * High elves: Not going to happen. 3 elf races is to much. Also the high elf population is very low (Most of them converted to Blood elfs).


 * I read something like this on the message board, but it wasn't a total debunk. However, Caydiem did allude to the fact there were not enough high elves left.  --Xmuskrat 16:21, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Tigons : To my knowledge, these supposed "Tigon" models are nothing more than the empowered forms of the Priests Thekal and Arlokk in Zul'Gurub. There is also an item that can grant the tiger form to players randomly. These models are in no way secret information that we're attempting to cover up -- why would we, when they're already patched in and being used by encounters that players see daily?


 * These models are already in the game, in use, and are not being used for a race at all. There is no record of "Tigons" in past lore -- come now, with a world of possibilities in what has already been written, particularly surrounding the subject of the expansion, do you really think we'd introduce a race of jungle cat-people that has absolutely no relation to Outland whatsoever? ;)


 * The "Tigon" is just a Troll Loa, and the name "Tigon" is just for the model. --DarkAngel ZERO 11:28, 27 March 2006 (EST)


 * Pandaren : (Caydiem stated it wont be pandaren, due to political reasons)

After all my research, I've yet to find one specific Chinese law that prohibits the act of violence against pandas in the media, much less fictatious characters that look like pandas. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, one version of Tekken is still allowed in China that has a second skin for one of the fighters as a panda-like character (blood, guts, I mean really), not to mention a certain anime that depicts a panda being attacked in several episodes (a main character if I recall correctly). --Malize 15:35, 18 Apr 2006 (EST)


 * Never happened. Prove it, Panda hater.  Even though I don't believe Pandaren will be selected for the expansion fact, so much misinformation and lies about them make me want to fight to keep them on the list.  I would love it if they got selected, if only for making people feel bad for making things up. --Xmuskrat 16:21, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Metzen gave no hints, and implied that they're still working out all the details. But he did acknowledge that once everyone hears about the new race, part of it will make sense, and part of it will make everyone go "huh?" ...We can't even speculate. (But it won't be Pandas.) -- from the Burning_Crusade page CJ 04:43, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * You're reading that as a quote, and the parentheticals even more emphasise this was not said out loud. The "we" in speculate was Gamespy.  Personally, I believe it was a dumb game magazine joke. "We can't even speculate. (But it won't be Pandas.) " --Xmuskrat 07:46, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Blazzard has stated to NO ONE the new race, or what will NOT be the new race. That kind of debunks this debunk. :) -- Seros


 * The only thing that debunks a debunk is something that proves the debunk wrong, not a vague generalization of non-information. The Gamespy statement is not an official debunk in that it comes from Blizzard sources, but is a debunk in an off-hand kind of way from a reporter who actually went to Blizzard and walked around, which is more than most debunkers can say. The argument that Blizzard has not said anything definitive about the new Alliance race seem to be a rather weak position against any other claims. Its kind of like saying George W. Bush never said we invaded Iraq to make up for his father's failure to get rid of Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War, so therefore that claim is invalid. A Blizzard person saying that it still could be Pandarens would be a real debunk of Gamespy, but saying we didn't say what it would be is just non-information... argh! /rant. --Fandyllic 6:27 PM PDT 13 Apr 2006


 * Murloc : "Fan made" image started this rumor. --Xmuskrat 16:21, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * LOL Schmidt 11:49, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * "Draenei's are in because Rob Pardo loves them." Here, I made up a rumor.  And it makes 0% difference to what the race is.  --Xmuskrat 16:21, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Good, now get some links for actual sources. =p --Kakwakas 11:53, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I know that Ogres will be the next race, it's utterly sure, it's because Blizzard's boss' wife looks like and Ogre ^^--Kirochi 07:30, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Naga : Not going to happen for many reasons. While it was planned once to have them included in the game (as mentioned by the WoW CE DVD), they scrapped the idea because of too many complications. Additionally, the Night Elves despise them more than they do the High Elves and Blood Elves, and would never let them become part of the Alliance. --DarkAngel ZERO 11:03, 27 March 2006 (EST)


 * Also, before I forget, Learn2Lore...Naga are Night Elves (Higherborn if you want to get technical) that were mutated by the Old Gods. That's an automatic "No" as an Alliance race. --DarkAngel ZERO 11:06, 27 March 2006 (EST)


 * The Naga were not Night Elves mutated by the Old Gods.
 * From Chapter 1 of the official history:
 * As the aftershocks from the Well's implosion rattled the bones of the world, the seas rushed in to fill the gaping wound left in the earth. Nearly eighty percent of Kalimdor's landmass had been blasted apart, leaving only a handful of separate continents surrounding the new, raging sea. At the center of the new sea, where the Well of Eternity once stood, was a tumultuous storm of tidal fury and chaotic energies. This terrible scar, known as the Maelstrom, would never cease its furious spinning. It would remain a constant reminder of the terrible catastrophe... and the utopian era that had been lost forever.


 * Somehow, against all odds, Queen Azshara and her Highborne elite managed to survive the ordeal. Tortured and twisted by the powers they had released, Azshara and her followers were dragged down beneath the raging sea by the Well's implosion. Cursed - transformed - they took on new shapes and became the hateful serpentine naga. Azshara herself expanded with hate and rage, becoming a massive monstrosity, reflecting the wickedness and malice that had always hidden within her core.
 * --Fandyllic 12:44 PM PST 27 Mar 2006


 * That page also says that Blackhand became chieftain on Draenor, there have only ever been 4 Old Gods, and other things... --Kakwakas 17:59, 27 March 2006 (EST)


 * Blizzard's story website is in need of severe altering. Metzen's timeline keeps changing with each RPG release, so it is hard to know which one is the real one. Also, Read War of the Ancients Trilogy. It mentions multiple times that the Old Gods are using the Well as a method to re-enter the World of Azeroth. Additionally, a mysterious voice begins to speak to Azshara during the Sundering. This voice appears in the last book of the WotA trilogy: "There is a way... there is a way... you will become more than you ever were... more than you ever were... we can help... we can help... You will be more than you have ever been... and when the time comes, for what we grant you... you will serve us well..." --DarkAngel ZERO 01:53, 28 March 2006 (EST)

= Replacing Bolds and Italics = How about instead of using italics for weak arguments and bold for strong arguments, we use italics for Speculation and bold for Official information? --Anticrash 14:48, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)

Vote Closed. Three votes Against is good enough for me. I forgot about the whole planned color scheme thing. That really is a much better idea. I don't know why I decided to start a vote on this. (As a matter of fact, I think I was the first one to mention the bolds/italics being hard on the eyes.) I think I'm vote happy. --Anticrash 10:13, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

heh. I think you were! Wanna re-run this vote with colors instead? --Xmuskrat 10:25, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

New Vote. At least Three votes in Favor will confirm the use of colors and normal text instead of bolds and italics to measure Rumor plausibility. After voting (if In Favor), comment on your choice of color schemes for the new system.


 * ...Eh? I thought we were gonna vote for different colors if it's official/confirmed or no.
 * --Kakwakas 11:56, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

Voting Closed. Votes In Favor of a color coded template to be impleted for measuring rumor plausibility.

In Favor
Closed.
 * 1) --Anticrash 10:56, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * 2) --Kirochi 11:59, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * 3) --Xmuskrat 12:30, 11 Jan 2006 (EST) I'm for the template. :) ( wasn't closed by me :P )
 * 4) --Schmidt 21:31, 13 Jan 2006 (EST) though it's closed already

Comments
So, what's up about that ? Will anyone at last break my bolding/italicizing protocol which started so much riots ? And wasn't SilverSide our best wiki programmer ? Whose sandbox is the best ? Who's trying to ruin us ? Who's the weakest link ?--Kirochi 12:44, 2 May 2006 (EDT)

= Caydiem Quote =

I've heard that Caydiem has stated in the forums that the new Alliance race is a race we are already famillar with, and that the model is already in game. Can anybody help me source this quote? I have been unable to find it in Thottbot news, but if it was deleted before it was spidered, that's possible. --Xmuskrat 11:42, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

i have not seen this. i have seen blue posting contradictory to this. that rumor was explicitly debunked betwe 12/25 and 1/1 --Noct

Justify it ! And link it !--Kirochi 16:34, 7 Mar 2006 (EST)

= Format =

Image Placement
Apparantly, with the images the way they currently are, the page looks horrd in Safari. Someone went and changed them so that they looked horrid in IE. I've changed them back to how they were before, but we should probably figure something out that works for everybody. --Kakwakas 08:46, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Fixed. Draenei needs a smaller image though --CJ 08:49, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Maybe the one Wikipedia uses?. --Kakwakas 08:50, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * Anything goes :) try it.--CJ 08:52, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * Hm. Turns out if you make a thumbnail of a smaller image, the thumbnail makes it bigger. =p --Kakwakas 09:00, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * the only issue i see now is the edit buttons in the top sections seem to be moved over into the text. (safari) CJ 09:08, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * I changed the placement. I thought putting a list of images with vacuum at it's left would be ugly, and I still think ; but now it's fixed and the idea I got earlier (but I didn't remember to use it) to put the pictures matching with the races was successfully used, well done ^^--Kirochi 11:21, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)

Colors
That default color for tables is horrendous, so I changed it to black. It still doesn't look right, but it's so much better, IMO. Anyways, I didn't want to work on it any more than I did before anyone commented on it. Schmidt 00:38, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

I like the new black back ground, because it distinguishes the table from the rest of the page. User:TopDread 5:38 16 Jan 2006


 * I think it just makes the page more readable. Way to go.  --Xmuskrat 10:42, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Good idea ! (-; --Kirochi 17:49, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

I made the background for gnolls and cenarion pictures black, too. Change them back if you want, so they can be similar to the others. I couldn't think of a way to fix all the other pictures. Schmidt 01:22, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

= Likelihood vs. Alphabetical order =

Vote in favor of Alphabetizing archived at Likelihood vs. Alphabetical order in Talk:Rumored Races/Archive3. --Fandyllic


 * Comment on this subject: Likelihood is far too subjective of a method to sort the list. It also makes it difficult to look for a specific race. Also I can see situations where someone goes "Hey, I think the new race is frog people and it is really likely!" and then everyone else goes NO and then there is a small arguement over where they go followed by a moderator mediating the problem, etc... With alphabetical, there is NO argument over where they go. You want Frogmen? They go after Forrest trolls but before Furbolgs. End of discussion. Makes things alot simpler. --Toloran 23:20, 30 April 2006 (EDT)
 * And that's why the only tool we use to determinate the likelihood of a race is the Rumored Races test ;)--Kirochi 14:33, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

= Race Relations =

Originally, i had the arguement that dreanei and naga couldn't possibly be new alliance races because they were both allied with the bloodelves in frozen throne, so naga and dreanei would never fight bloodelves.. (also, how the heck could naga wear leggings??)

But then i noticed something strange: you can fight both lady vaj and prince keal'thas in instances in outland.. so its like.. wtf mate.. a blood elf fighting the blood elves' leader?? ..this screws up everything! (and dont tell me that the bloodelves that are with the horde are a different faction or something, because prince keal'thas came up with that name, so all blood elves are under his control)

so in the end, anything is possible, but i like the idea of panderen since it would balance out the number of races on each continent (pandaren are from an island near kalimdor)

anyone have anything to say? im freaking out!--Icemalice 2:40, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * Well, the blood elves that are on Azeroth never went to Draenor, so they have no idea what Kael'thas and the rest of the blood elves did, and are doing over there. I wish I could find the source, but I believe it was either a blue poster or someone at the lore panel at BlizzCon that said Kael will do something that will make the Horde blood elves not want to follow him or something.  I don't remember it too clearly. :/ --Kakwakas 20:51, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

I don't think we'll have to fight Kael'thas ... Just think he is involved in some raids, but not as a boss.--Kirochi 17:27, 4 Jan 2006 (EST)

= Try the Rumored Races Test=

Hey if you try to apply the Rumored Races Test on these races, the result would show High Elves as the most likely. -Tery


 * Cool. Proofs now (meaning you shall run the test with the High Elves to be trusted).--Kirochi 11:51, 16 March 2006 (EST)

= Other Stuff =

Three small comments
Draenei: While Draenei seem like a likey choice (even thought I am praying they arn't), a common thing that was a - for other races was overlooked, and that is that Draenei are Shamanistic as well.--Wolveswithkeys
 * not quite. or at least not confirmed.--CJ


 * Draenei have never actually been called shamanistic by Blizzard. Some of their members use abilities like those used by Shaman, but it has never been indicated that the race follows a shamanistic lifestyle like the Orcs or Tauren do - and according to a player on the EU boards who supposedly is good friends (over the internet anyway) with Metzen, and who has provided plenty of nice little tidbits of inside info in the past to back this up, the reality is that Draenei simply are not a shamanistic race.

Gnolls: Not that I am suggesting they are the new race, but Gnolls do have signs of civilization, though it is primative at best. They work in a tribal sort of system, and obviously having an idea of a leader (Every gnoll chain there is ends in killing a leader). Also, they obviously have some signs of itellect, and a basic understanding of the Common Language--Wolveswithkeys
 * no better than furbolgs. --CJ

Goblins: The main problem people see with goblins is that they are neutral. While it is true that the Steamweedle Cartel is neutral, there are goblins that are not. There are some goblin NPCs that are aligned with Alliance or Horde, though you can probobly count the ones for each side on one hand. Just remember; not all goblins are part of steamweedle.--Wolveswithkeys
 * and some are Venture co.--CJ


 * Nothing new or interesting here. These points have already been explained/debunked. Thanks CJ for commenting it, though you've been a bit fast.--Kirochi 15:29, 21 March 2006 (EST)

Anybody checked out this video from wowtophat? Somebody tell me what to think about that please. :) --Ymihere 04:00, 27 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Say hello to a private server, where someone can put whatever he wants, whereever he wants. In this case, he's just put a whole bunch of kobolds and various props in Old Ironforge, and changed the model of the PC.  Also note how all the kobolds look the exact same.  A lot of effort put into something that is so obviously fake. --Adonzo 04:05, 27 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Amazing regardless. How much work is it to get a private server, unless you stole it from Blizzard some how. I suppose someone involved with their server farm could steal it some how.
 * Still, there are some clues it is fake:
 * Banker and vendors do not show bag cursor like they do in real WoW.
 * Boxes under banker highlighted, which wouldn't happen if they were not added intentionally as opposed to environmental objects like in real WoW.
 * No quest givers? I find that highly unlikely.
 * No chat bubbles. If it were real, why didn't the user talk to anyone? Too much work to fake, probably.
 * --Fandyllic 10:41 PM EDT 27 Apr 2006

Mok'Nathal (Rexxars Race)
Has anyone considered these to be a possible race? They do fit alot of the requirements.
 * + They are from Outland
 * + Rexxar Specifically has a distaste for the horde.
 * + That "cool" race everyoneone is looking for.
 * + Easy to make armor for.
 * + Good counter for the Tauren.
 * + Can ride a mount I don't know what kind but you know be creative.


 * - Possibly more horde oriented

--TheMan2.0 12:55, 2 April 2006

Mok'Nathal are not really possible:
 * Rexxar is the Champion of the Horde- it's not the Horde he has a distaste for, it's cities and developed culture "only beasts are above deceit."
 * Can be disqualified for the same reason as the High Elves: population. The Mok'Nathol were almost certainly exterminated by Gul'dan, Doomhammer, other Orc leader, or any number of Orc-hating factions. Their number would be a couple of hundred at the most, not nearly enough to theoretically support a player population. Ragestorm 18:08, 2 April 2006 (EDT)

In the campaign Rexxar says he is the last of his kind. --Rumda 15:10, 2 April 2006

This is also an admitted hoax. http://n3rfed.blogs.com/n3rfed/2006/04/new_alliance_ra.html and http://n3rfed.blogs.com/n3rfed/2006/04/no.html for a breakdown of the hoax, and you could read the actual forum posts to confirm as there is doubt in the second article as to weather or not it is a hoax, but it is confirmed on the forums that it is indeed a hoax.

Also, first wiki post, so please forgive me if I messed up in some way.--Yggdrazil 17:10, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Mercenaries
Any mercenary unit in WarCraft 3 that is suggested as an Alliance race should be removed from the list. Just because someone paid them enough gold to fight with them doesn't mean that they're going to up and join the Alliance. Unless there's good positive evidence supporting otherwise, don't use it as reason. --DarkAngel ZERO 11:04, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

Everything shouldn't be listed as Future: Possible
Every race on the Rumored Races page is listed as Future: Possible. One of two things should be done.

Either 1) Remove the reference to Future: Possible. Seems kind of pointless if everything is categorized the same.

Or 2) List some as Future: Unlikely. Now I agree that every rumored race has a right to be on the page, and that they are all only rumors.  However, it seems that races like Mountain Giant, Goblins, High Elves, and Centaur can be safely labeled as unlikely.

a) Mountain Giants have by far the greatest technical difficulty to overcome.

b) Centaur HAVE to be less likely than dryads and children of cenarius. They face the same technical difficulties, but dryads have a much clearer alliance connection.

c) CMs have repeatedly stated that Goblins are too neutral to take side in this war, when profits suggest they stay neutral. Of course this can always change, but I think it is safe to list it as unlikely.

d) I think most people can agree that adding two new elf races in addition to the current night elves is unlikely, especially considering some CMs have stated that the number of High Elves are incredibly less than the number of current Blood Elves.

I didn't want to just jump and make a bunch of changes to the page without running this by the talk page first, but I hope everyone takes this into consideration.

--Horik 11:38, 15 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Determining whether a race is unlikely or possible leads to endless disagreement for very little payoff. It's just too speculative and subjective.  Plus, it would definitely help the layout if that column could be removed entirely.  I believe the only race with a different status currently is Tigon, but the "debunked" note can just be put in its regular notes.--Aeleas 12:27, 15 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Hi Horik. In case you didn't know I am the one who entirely deleted the whole unlikeliness scale thing with the strong help of Xmuskrat. I decided to let the "possible" state for all races except Tigons because all arguments found in order to go the opposite way are mostly motivated by emotions. Also, neither me, nor you, nor any WoWwikist, nor even the whole world can safely call any race "unlikely" : after all, it's possible that Blizz even won't make any other expansion ever ; and there will be only ONE race chosen for each faction (except if a third faction is created or if there are more than two race added at once), no one will be able to tell Blizzard 'Hey mate you suck the Pandaren are lame just take them off immediately'. There will be ONE confirmed race for each and ALL the others will be debunked, making us foolish with our "possible" and "likely" and our attempts to guess the future.
 * Also, the exception for Tigons must be explained there : if Blizzard had the weird idea of putting the Tigons into the Alliance after all ? (stupid question isn't it ?) I would've been wrong. But to stay right as much as possible I decided that there would be a sort of code that any debunked race would be "unlikely" to be added in the same expansion. I don't know anything else than you, I'm just trying to make this wiki clear and objective.--Kirochi 14:44, 15 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Hi Kirochi. Well, I guess this just goes back to my first suggestion that the column should just be removed all together.  It serves no purpose if everyone is being rated exactly the same.  As for the Tigon exception, that can easily be added in its regular notes as Aeleas pointed out.  I disagree with the assumption that a rating scale of possible and likely is foolish, and I get a little lost in your reasoning, but am willing to acquiesce.  But I still feel that the column, in it's current form, serves no purpose but to waste space.--Horik 15:39, 15 April 2006 (EDT)


 * And I hate to beat a dead horse here (especially since what I am really advocating is the elimination of the column) but to further illustrate my point consider the following. True, only one race will be confirmed and it is possible that there will never be another race selected in the future.  This, however, does not change the concept of probability.  Consider a roulette wheel.  The chance of it landing on green rather than black and red is very unlikely.  The possibility still exists and it very well may happen.  If it were to land on green, and the wheel is never to be spun again, it doesn't change the fact that red and black are still more likely than green, even though green was the selected color.  Now, I concur that we may not all agree on what the exact probabilities of each race are--though I think we can come up with a Vegas-stakes style estimate--there are certain races that are more likely by pure matter of logical deduction. Take Dryads and Centaurs for example.  They share the exact same technical difficulties, and neither have a connection (that we know of) to Outland.  But everything else being equal, the current lore suggests dryads--with their strong connection to the night elves--is just more likely than the xenophobic centaurs (especially considering that if Blizzard were to go through the trouble of accomodating a four-legged creature, which do you think it will choose between the two?).  Of course, we have no way to know for sure.  That's why it's probability, not factual.--Horik 16:04, 15 April 2006 (EDT)


 * If we remove the column and replace it with a general disclaimer at the top, we would have the luxury of being much more clear. "Please keep in mind that Blizzard has made no official announcements, this is all speculation, and this page includes everything from the likely to the outlandish.  It is left to the reader to determine the likelihood of each race..." and so forth.
 * By way of demonstrating the sort of endless arguments that trying to rate each race bring up, I'd have to say that I would favour centaurs over dryads and keepers. We know from the Maraudon questlines that the Pariah is working to end infighting between the clans, and that the spirit of Zaetar is working to help his children reform.  That sets them up for some interesting plotlines.  Dryads and keepers, on the other hand, are a little too close to demigods, being directly descended from one, to be a regular race, in my opinion.  It's all subjective, and there's just no way to develop a consensus.--Aeleas 18:14, 15 April 2006 (EDT