User talk:Oponyxal

Sindassi/Thalassian
If you missed the news, in Burning Crusade(as well as the spin off material), Blood Elves speak Thallasian, there is no evidence of a "Sindassi" language at this point.Baggins 12:00, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Signing
Please to be remembering to sign your comments in the talk pages using ( ~ ), it makes it a lot easier to see who says what. 19:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Lirath
Sorry, I was afk while creating his model (Relatives, status, image etc) Okay, he's creating now, I am in the middle of Beyond the Dark Portal (page 234) so I am not sure if there is more on him, If you can find someone (Or you) to expand it, it will be very good news!

Hey Oponyxal
I saw you changed my

Duna

(they / the others / them) to agree

and

Falore

Yes/indeed/agreed to

to sister.

You see the meaning: Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas.

You think duna means agree. Duna is used twice, see? But they still dont say "Yes sister I agree, The greens agree are primitive. What i think is that duna means THEM /many. And since Ana is presumed to mean "I" based on several sentences it must mean that Ana'duna means "us" or something similar. If you look at this again.

Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas.

This must mean something like, word by word:

Many-I(Us) agree(yes), green them(green skins) are primitive.

To me that duna would be agree and falore would be sister makes no sense.

Faeniel on Magtheridon 15:33, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Okay...
Your translations had a point but there are still some questionmarks. So with your translation to the according diccionary it says:

"My sister, green skins are primitive."

"Ana" to you means "my", when it on another standard means "it":

you said: "Ana'/it duna/is, falore/sister. Izsera/the green ones duna/are/ bantallas/primitive."

Look, here is another sentence with no "it", you meant that "ana" meant "my": Ana'duna thera - Revenge will be ours. (you translated it to our true revenge) still no "it" Ana'tole na Dure - I will do it for nature (you translated it to my effort to the nature)

So, does ana mean "my/our" or "it" to you? with your other translations as duna as "my" and not "it", the translation would be

"Ana'/MY duna/is, falore/sister. Izsera/the green ones duna/are/ bantallas/primitive."

So: My is, sister, the green ones are primitive?

Makes no sense. Maybe you don't know this, but there are actually languages(e.g Spanish) who work that way that you never actually say the word "am/is/are" in a sentence, it could be that this word is "hanging" on to another word. Depending on how the words ends, you know who its referring to. And yes Ana'duna could be two sentences, but that DOESN'T say just because you translated it to your mothertounge that the word still isn't two words. Ana'duna can still mean "us", although "us" is two words in Darnassian.

For me, it still makes sense if:
 * Ana means me
 * Duna means others
 * Ana'duna means me-others (another word for "us", which is another word for "sister" since this group is made of only female night elfs)
 * Falore yes/agree

Then the sentence "Ana'duna falore. Izsera duna bantallas" would be:

Me-others(us/sister) agree. Green others (are) primitive.

This might sound like jibberish to you, but it makes sense to me.


 * It's got logic to it, but it's still a bit messed up in my ears. Try looking at the phrases section further down, where the sentences are deciphered word by word, and tell me it doesn't make sense.


 * Well the phrases do make sense, but you are using the same word over and over again but with different meaning.


 * Not as far as I can see it now. Examples (from the current revision)?


 * Well i edited it. And I will continue editing your editions. I never said I-others and yes is the same. Falore is and has always been yes/agree/indeed and Ana'duna is I-others/us/sister. Just because they say: Yes sister in the English version the ORDER of the words in Darnassian might not be the same. In Swedish it's not. And not in Spanish either.


 * Darnassian/My direct translation/English translation


 * Ana'duna/I-others/sister falore/agree/Yes.

Working toward a descriptive grammar for Darnassian
A descriptive grammar of Darnassian

As a side project, I've taken it upon myself to attempt a descriptive grammar of both Darnassian and Thalassian. By descriptive grammar, I mean: ''Descriptive grammar (definition #1) refers to the structure of a language as it is actually used by speakers and writers. Prescriptive grammar (definition #2) refers to the structure of a language as certain people think it should be used.''

More than just vocabulary - this grammar would encompass verb forms, tenses, syntactic structure, idioms and phrases, naming conventions, and vocabulary as well. The descriptive part means that it would rely on source material in a strict way - with primary sources being definitions from Blizzard itself, secondary sources being either Blizzard-official phrases where only context was given, or sources from semi-official publications or notes (novels or developer notes/comments), or the "gibberish" language engines as they provide words with no real meaning, and tertiary sources would be everything else - including community speculation not founded on any of the above.

It involves working backward from whatever phrases are available, diagramming sentences, isolating parts of speech, finding consistent patterns or rules, and then applying and extending them so that they work for "most" cases, with a best use percentage being somewhere between 80-90% of cases.

This should also be workable so that you can take any part of it and interchange it with any other part in a usable format.

This is going to involve a lot of speculation, but hopefully can be done without losing too much. What I want to avoid is throwing out five different consistent cases because one case doesn't fit - it should be the other way around. Also, since a lot of the language just isn't written, this is going to take a bit more of community effort to expand it - in a way consistent with the grammar - and maybe make Blizzard or other writers aware of it. Absolutely open to suggestions! But everyone should remember this is a game - let's be flexible on definitions and friendly with each other.

Right now I am just using this in my own characters and gameplay.

About me: I am a Linux technical coordinator by day who has studied Japanese, French, Spanish, Latin, Finnish, Russian, Chinese and a mix of other languages, in about that order of fluency.

I have already worked out verb tenses in Daranssian that work in nearly all the cases I have encountered, although it has made for some interesting translations of previously translated (by community members) material. Mushan (talk) 11:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

re: Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas.
This is a tricky one, all right!

The problem with the current translations for this phrase is that they conflict with several other translations; none of them are consistent. I think we can find consistency though without sacrificing meaning.

I think it is generally agreed that 'ana' is an article modifying 'duna,' that 'iszera' is a noun that refers to 'greenskins,' and that 'bantallas' refers to the state or act of being primitive.

So the object of the sentence is 'iszera.'

In the translation offered (also, where is the source of that translation?), Ana'duna likely means 'For truth,' which fits with no problems or conflicts. 'Duna' then repeats.


 * Ana'duna falore, iszera duna bantallas.


 * For true _____, greenskins true _____.

Now, I have to disagree that falore actually means sister - my reason for this is because of other translations of verb forms and usage. To me (based on all other phrases available), -ore makes most sense as the infinitive verb tense - while fal- is a verb root (as in Andu-falah-dor, or "Let nature/balance be restored".

Falore is also not used anywhere else for sister, while we see the -ore infinitive being used in the phrase "Elune-adore," so I think this is closer.

If "falore" is an infinitive verb, it could be used in the sense of "to reply" - "falah" for instances means "restored/replenished" in "Andu-falah-dor".

Darnassian also often puts verbs at the end of clauses, such that "Ana'duna falore" would come to mean literally "For truth to restore/replenish," or idiomatically, "To reply truthfully" or perhaps even something closer to "to set the record straight."

In English, for instance, the idiom "To set the record straight" means "to correct an incorrect statement," and does not literally refer to setting any actual record in a straight line; it essentially means "to restore truth." In any event, a case could be made for this.

This lets us keep -ore as a verb ending and duna as true/truth - Darnassian doesn't have to follow English rules of grammar, but it does have to be consistent with itself.

Bantallas might then be an irregular present plural form of "being primitive" or "(they) are primitive."

So the new literal translation would be:


 * To restore for truth, greenskins are true primitive.

But the idiomatic translation (real meaning) would be:


 * To reply truthfully /or/ To set the record straight, greenskins are truly primitive.

Of course, this all rests on the assumption the meaning of the phrase is close to "For truth, greenskins are primitive."

I'm really not that happy with this translation, but the other one just did not make any sense. This at least works idiomatically - it's not as if Blizzard hired a linguist to work this out before hand, but this is what we have. :( Mushan (talk) 12:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I take this back partially. After looking over everything more closely, I don't think that the root fal- means to replenish, I think it means to balance, and the word falah is the gerund, or noun form of the verb, while falore remains the infinitive to balance. I also think ana' is more closely related to the Thalassian anar' prepositional modifier which means by. Also, dora is truth, and I agree with you that duna is likely reality instead. So the translation would be:


 * By reality in balance, greenskins are really primitive.


 * And the idiomatic meaning would be closer to:


 * When you really consider it, the greenskins are really primitive, or Get real, the greenskins are really primitive, depending on context.


 * Mushan (talk) 12:27, March 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * While your logic is clearly good here, I think you're over-analysing and breaking down words too much. I agree with you ana'duna assupmtions, but isn't it possible that even though "fal" and "ore" might be articles, roots and whatnot, the word "falore" might still be untie to these? The official translation includes the word "sister". In English, the root "un" as in "unhappy" doesn't have anything to do with the word "uncle"... Personally, I still believe the word "falore" means "sister". --Oponyxal (talk) 12:31, April 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think all this is open to interpretation. You mentioned the "un" in "unhappy" but I began by breaking down parts of speech - no one would argue that unhappy and uncle are not related, true, but I don't think anyone would argue that unhappy is unrelated to words like unable, unfeeling, unsafe, unripe, unstable, unflinching or, unrelated. There are exceptions to be sure, but rarely so glaring. The "-ore" ending in every other case in Darnassian is a verb ending, and for it to be consistent with other verbs, it would mean "to balance;" to be consistent with this particular translation, it would likely be "sister." Curious to know what the source of this translation is: is it from a novel or from an official WoW guide? I don't recall it in any of the games. I also think in this one particular example, I just don't agree with the official translation - it would mean there isn't regular verb conjugation, which just works so nicely in every other example. (On the over-analyzing, yes, I have too much free time, but it's fun.) Mushan (talk) 14:47, April 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's also the obvious option that the word means more than one thing. Also, the ending "-ore" might be a dual suffix, corresponding with the "-orei" in "dorei" as a singular term in nouns and as an infinitive ending in verbs. I added a table for verbs, filling in from your deductions in the Darnassian/speculation page. --Oponyxal (talk) 15:24, April 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good point, and a happy (and obvious) compromise. You are correct, there is no reason to think it may not mean both. And after getting bored yesterday and going back to Warcraft 3, I did indeed hear a few more of the phrases in use, though with no in game translations. I appreciate your insight. Also, thank you greatly for the verb table. Mushan (talk) 11:24, April 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for coming up with enough logic and rules for me to be able to create it, and thank you for expanding it with the gerund and subjunctive forms. -- 11:40, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Scythe of Elune
Please read my edits' comment: Arugal's story has been changed a bit, now he did not only used Ur's reasearches, but also the Scythe of Elune.

15:53, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I had no idea. Could you post the source behind this information? -- 16:07, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * All is explained during the Worgen starting experience
 * 16:23, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I've read through everything, and Arugal is only mentioned once, and not in any relations to the Scythe. I think this is merely a misinterpretation made by worldofraids, and since it's not a cannon source, it should be removed. I'm usually not in doubt about your edits, as you tend to be spot-on, but in this particular case, I think you're wrong. Without a proper source attached to the statements that "Arugal messed with the Scythe", it shouldn't be there.
 * -- 17:48, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * All is not written in WoWWiki yet, and the fact that Arugal messed with the Scythe seems to be the report of many beta testers. But you can choose to be careful, go on, we can always get it back later :)
 * 17:50, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Without a proper source, it can be a massive misinterpretation. I've been watching the quest lines and dialogues, and can't find it anywhere. Might come in later, though, but as of yet, I prefer to be on the safe side. Also, Velinde is supposed to have held the Scythe at the time Arugal summoned the worgen. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out, though.
 * -- 18:00, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is desired
Hey, we're pretty much settled on leaving Wikia, but I wanted to see if you had any input. Thanks. -- 00:18, October 10, 2010 (UTC)