Talk:World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King/Archive2

(GC-Demo)
Anyone got an idea what GC-Demo could mean? --Raze 01:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Games-Convention at Leipzig (biggest European gaming convenion that takes place in mid August in Germany). This is why it was registered with the German ratings board, because it'll be shown in Germany (though probably also at Blizzcon). Omacron 05:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Blizzcon Pamphlet
Could someone at Blizzcon say what the enitre contents of the pamphlet seen in the article say? --200206a


 * I was there and it was just a general overview. I went to most of the panels and I have reviewed this page for accuracy.

OMG!
o my god already...they just came out with the bc, and when does this come out in stores?Airiph 21:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No ETA at the moment. They had mentioned before that they would like to have an expansion per year. -- 21:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * ok...they should add necromancer as a hero too!Airiph 21:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Death Night is a necromancer --chaos986 22:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Ya I gues you`re right Im not gona argue--Airiph 22:59, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

On the money?
Though irrelevant at this point, user ideas are still listed here. I think it will be fun to see who was right about things.-- 23:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

- My bet is that there will be an NPC in the Howling Fjords zone named something along the lines of Slartibartfast and that he will have a fondness for Fjords :) --Toloran 22:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Changes to the world map
- The large group of islands northwest of Lordaeron is no longer there, but there is a new, smaller group of islands north of the Tirisfal/WPL border - 2 new islands just west of Westfall/Stranglethorn - Silithus no longer bulges out of southwest Kalimdor, thus keeping more accurate with the portrayal of the zone ingame - The bulge of land west/northwest of Stonetalon, commonly linked to various false rumors, has been removed - New land mass north of Stormwind --Adonzo 00:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting that the Sunwell Plateau hasn't been added even though it will be patched in before WLK. --Raze 02:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The only changes to that map is the removal of the 4 islands Northwest of Lordaeron and that was just so they could fit Northrend. The other things are all exactly like the normal Azeroth world map except for the new Quel'Thelas look added in and Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles. Theres no silithus on the map for example because the map this is based off of is when Silithus did not yet exist. http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Azeroth-alphamap-cities.jpg is the map it is based off of. Leviathon 03:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It was strongly hinted that Sunwell Plateau will be the next dungeon out after Zul'Aman. 05:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not the new map for WotLK. This is the map that appears in the opening cinematic for the original WoW. Watch it yourself if you don't believe me. The new map has not been released yet. --Varteras 04:52, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Template?
After a bit, all Burning Crusade articles had a template {bc} I think, is there going to be something similar for WotLK?
 * Wowpedia talk:Village pump 02:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Just so you don't have to even go there!

Dalaran
I'm interested in hearing how they are going to explain how the destroyed city of Dalaran will some how be moved to Northrend from the Eastern Kingdoms. 05:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup. Dalaran will be on the move as the Kirin'Tor want to take the fight to the blue dragons that wish to stop people from using magic (the dragons are slightly mad, like Malygos). Thus, Dalaran will appear in central Northrend, floating over one zone just north of the Dragonblight. Also, stuff to add! There will be two entrances to Northrend - Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord. Both serve the early levels, and you needn't visit both to progress. Tuskarr city is neutral, also a neutral faction in Fjord. More as I think of it :) 06:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because the dome is empty using that exploit doesn't mean anything. The city's probably been up and running for months underneath that thing. And when you have several thousand mages in a city made of magically-sensitive crystal, making the thing fly is probably not that difficult.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hell, it'd probably be easy as cake to turn it into a giant magnataur and make it do the conga with that many mages in one place. ~ Peregrine


 * One can't help but wonder. This is actually good- as far as lore goes, it doesn't need anything tweaked or retconned, just a further evolution of the plot. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, this expansion will be the one most loved by former Warcraft III players as it continues all the pieces found in the RTS series:
 * Northrend (continent), all the areas, including Azjol-Nerub and the Icecrown
 * Arthas
 * Dalaran (as a real, huge, arcane city - remember, in TFT it had a huge underground system - sounds nice)
 * Former Warcraft III heroes (all the 4 races had four heroes as of TFT)
 * Sunwell Plateau (maybe, if the rumors are true)


 * --  Shandris   talk / contribs  00:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thats an interesting point, regarding the underground system. if Dalaran doesn't take the huge chunk of ground directly beneath it along for the ride, does that mean there will be a new instance where old Dalaran was?...this would also help me to, since it would server as a de facto capital for the kingdom of Dalaran in Lordaeron while the city is away doing its thing. Still, the reasoning behind allowing Horde in Dalaran will be interesting. As far as I am aware Dalaran is hostile to horde, especially orcs, undead and belfs, no ifs or buts and is a member of the alliance. --Nurizeko


 * It doesn't take a lot for the Kirin Tor to be tolerant of Horde members. The city was founded to further arcane knowledge and study. The only reason they were Alliance to begin with is because the orcs were trying to wipe them out. If the Blood Elf and troll magi are willing to bow to the Kirin Tor's authority (as human, high elf, and gnome mages already do), there wouldn't be a problem. Forsaken might be an issue, if only because of the whole undeady thing. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Dalaran will be completely nuetral like Shattrath. Nobody will have an advantage all races will be treated equaly too.


 * In all liklihood, Dalaran will have the same atmosphere towards the Horde as Shattrath does. As you know, Shattrath is predominantly controlled by the Draenei who have a bad history with the Orcs and they're a part of the Alliance. So while they tolerate the Horde, they don't necessarily like them being there. It's a necessary inconvenience to achieve what is best. Dalaran will be the same way since they are Human and High Elven magi. Yet despite all that power, they will still need the combined forces of the Horde and the Alliance to beat the Blue Dragonflight. --Varteras 04:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

New Races
Will there be any new races? I doubt it but I was just wandering if Blizzard said no new races or not.--Sidney


 * Even if they were keeping it under wraps, they would have said they were introducing them. I think ten is enough for now. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Still, I think it is safe to assume we'll be meeting more races, such as the Nerubians. Not a sure thing of course, but quite possibly we'll ge recieving quests to enter the ruins of the nerubian empire, maybe salvage what is left of the spider race, perhaps from the nerubians themselves. ~ Peregrine


 * Yeah, we'll be meeting new races, such as the Taunka, the Vrykul and the Iron Dwarves. More about the Tuksarr and the Nerubians will probably be revealing. But I'm pretty sure there won't be new playable races in this one. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh no, almost definitely - hell they've used up all the two-legged races in lore already. I have no problem with, say, a magnataur race, but their four feet present problems. Personally, I think the races are fine as is. ~ Peregrine


 * Dont forget about our plucky little freinds the pandaren and of course the goblins. But there problbubly wont be anything since the guy said in the northrend panel that they werent adding any I think the liklyhood is pretty much nil.Cormundo 23:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think everyone agrees that ten races are enough for now. There are enough special features to keep everyone involved busy, so there is no need for new playables. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * it is an official no.-- 20:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, in the Northrend panel at Blizzcon one of the devs said they are not going to have new races so the can focus all of their effort on Northrend itself. I am hoping that the next xpack would be centerend on the Great Sea and feature Goblins and Pandaren as the new races. Nathanmaxtro 05:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Not necesarily...pandaren and goblin are pretty neutral.Airiph 22:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No new races will be added for WotLK. They want to focus on giving us more per race. In all honesty, a new race is the last thing the game needs right now. It's a relief to even get a single new class in the game, hero or not, because we've been playing the same 9 classes for the last 3 years. If the rumors are true, the total count of playable races by the time WoW is done will be between 16 to 20. I suspect that Blizzard will give us 2 new playable races in every other expansion pack. I would put money on new races for whatever expansion pack comes after WotLK. For the Alliance the most heavily rumored races are the High Elves, Pandaren, and Cenarians. For the Horde are the Goblins, Ogres, and Naga. It should be noted, however, that the rumors of the Cenarians becoming a playable race has been hotly debated for varying reasons and that the Furbolgs are quickly overtaking them as one of the three most rumored new Alliance races. --Varteras 05:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Faceless Ones?
What do you guys think about those guys? Might we see them again? That'd be kind of neat to figure out what the hell they were... --Super Bhaal 02:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Most significant Northrend denizens will likely make an appearance. This included the Faceless Ones. Of course, the Faceless Ones might have been permanently buried beneath Azjol'Nerub, but that hasn't been confirmed. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Bleh, I'm sure right now they're bickering over whether or not gnomes or goblins blow all the rubble away. I mean, both of them have done dumb things like that before...  --Super Bhaal 03:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * At the lore panel Metzen mentioned we will be exploring Ajzol'Nerub and meet a Old God at the end. So I'd imagine we will see the Faceless Ones again.

Mobs one can find
Add more in the style I did. --  Shandris   talk / contribs  10:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Penguins? That's bull.  The only way I'm killing a penguin is if I get artifacts from them.  Off-topic as far as mobs are concerned, but what about the nerubians  ( who didn't kick )  at Azjol-Nerub, and the countless undead ones?  The Drakkari?  Will we get to go to Zul'Drak?  --Super Bhaal 21:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum. When mobs are announced in the bestiary, then we discuss how we add to the page. There is no reason to post random .gifs on the talk page. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Flying Mounts in Northrend?
As the topic says, what do you think about Flying Mounts in Northrend? I know Blizzard hasn't said anything about it yet, but we may speculate anyway. But the thing is: if you can only use Flying Mounts in Outland, I doubt anyone will buy one. Since you can only buy them when you have reached lvl 70, and when people have reached 70 they will probably not stay in Outland, but move on to Northrend. So if you ask me, it's most likely that Flying Mounts will be useable in Northrend aswell. --Odolwa 23:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * At the very least, it's been confirmed that flying mounts can be used to reach Dalaran, though it can also be reached via ground-based methods, possibly a bridge or portal. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As this page says - Flying mounts will also be usable in Northrend, but not until "level 75 or 78" as they want to "keep us grounded and guide us on foot".. Good to know that we won't be able to fly over Icecrown as soon as the continent opens. --Raze 00:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Death Knight
It occured to me, as I watched the trailer for WotLK, that I might have seen a mechanic similar to the one which Blizzard is presenting in the form of the Hero Class Death Knight. It comes from Lord of the Rings Online, specifically, [here]. Reasons for why I believe this is a good approxomation: -Death Knights are a product of the Scourge. As far I know, the lore does not mention the Forsaken having any Death Knights in their ranks. But, I could be wrong. (Ragestorm, any thoughts?) -Being products of the Scourge would make them enemies of the two main factions in WoW, the Horde and the Alliance. This would provide more than enough justification for Death Knights ganking whosoever they please. -If Death Knights were flagged for PvP for all factions, it would make sense to start them out as a higher level, thus avoiding the necessity of creating an entire third faction for the Scourge. Comments?--Weisskrieg 00:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I had been thinking about this as well. To the best of my knowledge, there wasn't any discussion about what faction the Death Knight would be. Actually if I remember correctly, the question was dodged during the expansion discussion panel. What I would conceive is that the death knight will be aligned with a single faction. If it weren't, Death Knights would not be able to group or raid. They would also be confined to neutral cities, which would disrupt the economy that is in place. There are obvious lore issues with this, but here are ways around it. This could be done in the same way that Draenei picked up practicing shamanism...they realize that it isn't inherently evil, but the users can become evil. A line of lore could easily be crafted to being this realization upon the Alliance and Horde. The character isn't becoming the Lich King's servant, they are just becoming a player with the powers of a death knight. --Tetsuo86 17:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You mentioned that if it were true, Death Knight as part of a third faction (or whatever), would not be able to interact with Alliance/Horde players such as grouping, etc...if they're creating the Death Knight, I am pretty sure they can code it to allow them to group with other players as a very trivial aspect of the Death Knight experience. Working with a single new addition (hero classes, one by one), it would be pretty hard to have such a large oversight as this. I don't see why this wouldn't work, you would be living a dangerous life, hunted wherever you go...but perhaps feared as well...able to enter non-faction specific cities (Shattrath City is one, goblin cities another yes?). I mean there are ways, it's their job to find these out and make it work, if this is what they're after, anyway.Arideni 14:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The Death Knight will not be aligned with any specific faction. Both the Horde and the Alliance will have Death Knight characters. It will be much the same way as Warlocks are tolerated by both the Horde and the Alliance, though not trusted. They view them as a necessary evil to fight any armies of darkness because they understand them better than most and their powers are undeniable. --Varteras 05:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Grim Batol & Uldum

 * It has been hinted that Grim Batol and Uldum may also be dungeons.

Where was this hinted? Any links or quotes would be appreciated. I have been thinking about the chance that Uldum is the 5-man dungeon pre-expansion that they are "toying with", in order to bridge he gap between Uldaman and Ulduar. --Raze 00:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well since Blizzard has said the Red Flight will be aiding us in Northrend it would seem likely we will be seeing it opened. Also since Ulduar will be open in Northrend then Uldum being opened just makes sense. Leviathon 01:09, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, Reworded for accuracy. --Raze 01:22, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Blizzard has in fact stated that Grim Batol and Uldum will eventually be opened up as new dungeons. While they have plans for them, they did not state in any way that Grim Batol or Uldum would be opened up with Wrath of the Lich King. Only that they are planned for the future. --Varteras 10:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

3.0
During the items and professions panel WotLK was often referred to as "3.0", so it's safe to assume that the numbering system will continue with each expansion Oahkoah 01:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is what is always done with versioning...it goes ... --Tetsuo86 15:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The Blue Dragonflight.
From the information release thus far, the Kirin Tor have moved Dalaran to Northrend as a front against the Blue Dragonflight. Apparently Malygos has gotten worse and decided that the mortal races shouldn't be using magic anymore. The Red Dragonflight will be helping the mortal races. I have no idea how Blizzard is going to pull it off but it should at least be interesting. Nathanmaxtro 06:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd imagine we will just have the help of some Red Dragons to knock some sense into Malygos if we do end up fighting him. Leviathon 07:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * meh....id like to see a massive dragon fight, then come in and kill them all with a 25 man, + kill big blue boss, as long as he doesnt drop any blues -.- Lethalnl 14:27, 6 August 2007 (+1 gmt)


 * Tyri's pet nether dragon gets to help somehow.-- 16:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You will, infact, end up fighting Malygos. He will be the first ever Dragon Aspect to be seen in the game. I doubt that you will kill him though as the loss of another Aspect (with Neltharion obviously being the first due to insanity) would be catastrophic to the already strained balance of Azeroth. Malygos and the Blue Dragonflight aren't actually evil, unlike the Black Dragonflight. They are no more evil to the world than the Alliance or the Horde are. It's just that, like the Alliance and Horde, the Blue Dragonflight has a differing viewpoint. The Kirin Tor and the Red Dragonflight intend to show Malygos his error and to get him back on track to help combat much greater threats. --Varteras 10:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Dungeons and end-game content
Everything not 100% said by Blizzard should be removed from this page.-- 16:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed, or at the very least add like a "speculations" section at the bottom of the page or add a Wrath of the Lich King Speculation page, like was done with the Old Gods and Old Gods Speculation. ~ Peregrine


 * Interesting interview with Tigole...apparently, Kel'Thuzad is gonna make a comeback as a boss who needs killing:


 * So what I want to do in Northrend is to take Naxxramas in all of its glory, scale it down to the 25 man raid size, and then take the difficulty and retune it—obviously we’d tune for level 80, it would no longer be tuned for level 60, since that would be a little silly and it wouldn’t be a lot of fun for people at that point—but I want to put rewards in there that are very exciting to level 80 players, but make it the entry-level raid, very accessible, tune the encounters so that there’s something for everybody to do, and let the majority get a chance to see that content that they hadn’t seen before.


 * Source: --Joshmaul 20:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Controversy section
I have removed this as it is uncited and adds little to the page. 08:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Why do people have such a huge problem comprehending the idea that Blizzard knows what they're doing? Have you noticed how the overwhelming majority of BC complaints vanished after the release?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. Blizzard will NOT ruin the single more profitable venture in the history of gaming. Trust me. Also, they are the most skilled game-crafters in the industry (IMHO). Please stop trying to sour the pot. --Tetsuo86 15:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, we certainly shouldn't attempt to whitewash Blizzard here, but unless the complaints can be cited and well-known, they don't belong here. 18:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I would say it should be removed because it was uncited and because it presumes alot about the expansion that is not clear. You can't say raising the level cap to 80 is too soon when we don't know the release date or at least an announced release date. BC took awhile to come out and wrath could take about as long or longer. Otherwise, I would recommend a bit more restraint in removing content. Try editing it first and then remove it if it becomes an edit war. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 11:39 AM PDT 7 Aug 2007


 * I just don't want WoWWiki to become another place like the WoW Forums where all people to is whine about what they want and what makes them sad.


 * Over our (and their) dead bodies. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Gnomes in Northrend
Apparently there is word of a Gnomish City in Northrend, as mentioned by Blue, Nethaera. http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/916802363.htm The above link is a cache of the post. If you need the official World of Warcraft Forums link here u go http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=916802363&pageNo=1&sid=1#3 --Chicknfood 17:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Until it is stated by Blizzard in a press release, FAQ, or other official resource, we should hold off on adding it to the article.
 * Nethaera is an official source. Besides, they briefly showed it during the intro panel - there is probably an image somewhere around - it has a really tall radar tower and a proper landing strip (yes, really). 19:43, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the website, not the person. I was at BlizzCon as well and went to the same panels as you did :p
 * What makes you think that the WoW Forums don't meet the qualifications for official sources?[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] APΘLLΘ (ZEUS)  17:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Here is a picture of the town from the Borean Tundra video if you want to use this as proof enough (If Blizzard themselves you don't think are reliable sources). http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n219/leviathonlx3/?action=view&current=gnometown.jpg Leviathon 18:49, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that picture indeed. If you look at it closely, you will notice that this town has an airstrip. The only races who could possibly introduce those are goblins and gnomes. However, if you look at - for instance - Ratchet and compare it to - say - Toshley's Station you'll see that this town looks much more similar to the latter.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] APΘLLΘ (ZEUS)  21:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Can also watch the video from the panel where the developer states its a gnomish town at that part. http://media.pc.ign.com/media/954/954150/vids_1.html Borean Tundra video. --Leviathon 22:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Many Alliance players have complained about the transportation available to the two factions. The two neutral cities in Azeroth with boat transportation are Ratchet in the Barrens, Horde territory, and Booty Bay in Stranglethorn Vale, a zone which only the Horde have a base in. As well, the Horde have a Zeppelin they can take from Orgrimmar, Undercity, and Grom'Gol Base Camp (the Horde base in Stranglethorn Vale). The Alliance currently has no such means of transportation. With the Burning Crusde the Horde were given instant teleportation between Silvermoon and Undercity. This is similar to the concept of the Deep Run Tram between Stormwind and Ironforge though much faster. The Horde argue, and with a good point, that in regards to the ports available to the two factions, the Alliance can go to all seven ports in the game without getting attacked by NPCs. They only run the risk of getting attacked by Horde players in the two neutral ports. Which ofcourse, is a double-edged sword since the Horde are equally vulnerable in a neutral port. The Horde have no ports to call entirely their own unlike the Alliance who has Menethil Harbor, Theramore Isle, Auberdine, Ru'Theran Village, and Valaar's Berth. However, Alliance players who start off in the Eastern Kingdoms initially have no easy access to these ports. Their only options for getting to Kalimdor in the early part of the game are either a treacherous run through the Wetlands or a suicide run through Stranglethorn Vale. Even Alliance players who start in Kalimdor, though easily capable of getting to the Eastern Kingdoms, will still have to make that run through the Wetlands to get to Ironforge. Horde capitals are much better connected even across the continents. Mulgore and Orgrimmar are easily ventured to and from since The Barrens connect those two starting areas. As previously stated, Horde players can easily venture back and forth between Silvermoon and Undercity via the teleporter. Since Orgrimmar in Kalimdor and Undercity in Eastern Kingdoms are connected by the zeppelin, Horde players can easily move between all four of their capitals at any point in the game, something Alliance players cannot easily do with their own until level 20-25. Essentially Alliance players are "pocketed" into their respective areas for awhile. This helps to further the belief that Horde players level faster. They have more access to a wider variety of missions in the early game. Because of this, Alliance players wish to have a type of air transportation similar to the zeppelin of the Horde. Such "airships" would theoretically fly from Ironforge to Darnassus to a specific Alliance base and back again. Perhaps this Alliance base would be the Gnome city in Northrend. --Varteras 14:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)