Talk:Mage builds

Old comments
I'd really like to see a total clean up of the talent pages starting with this one. When changes are made because of one talent they should be used as a +X sticking with the core talents that make the spec. This eliminates confusion and quickens the usefulness for new people.

I'd suggest that the sections be divided into "grinding/PvE", "PvP", "Raiding", and "Hybrids". Then sub divide these by tree, because this is what most people are after.

Grinding/PvE specs:

PvP specs:
 * Frost +CS 17/0/44
 * Frost +Fire 0/12/49

Raiding specs (i believe this is complete):
 * Arcane/IV (43/0/11+7)
 * Arcane/Pyro (43/11/0+7)
 * Arcane Fire (33/28/0)
 * Arcane Frost (40/0/21)
 * Fire (10/47/3+1)
 * Fire/IV (2/47/11+1)
 * Frost (10/0/49+2)
 * Frost, Deep (0/0/49+12)
 * Frost/Meditation (18/0/43)

Hybrid specs:

let me know what you guys think. I'll start work on this when i get some feedback --Glypher 22:00, 23 January 2008 (UTC)Glypher 00:23, September 8, 2006 (EST)

The sample 33/18 frost build does not work, as you have to have at least 15 points in frost to get to tier 4. Two points in improved blizzard will do the trick, but then you have two points less to use on something else. I have a 35/16 frost build that has the extra two points in blizzard and only 16 points in arcane. Improved counterspell would be nice for PvP though... Blizzard with frostbite requires a slightly different approach, but it can be made to work really well and is excellent especially for WSG, where you can use rank 1 blizzard to remotely freeze and stop whole groups of players (for instance enemy flag carriers and escorts that are getting away or a group of players chasing your flag carrier).

Editted the 33/18 Frost/Arcane build to one that works. (added a point to arctic reach, removed frost channelling, and added 3 Imp Blizzard.) Kothmia 13:52, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Most Builds are now invalid due the mage talent review in 1.11 and since AQ/Naxx fire resistance isn't an real issue anymore. Apophis 11:24, 8 Aug 2006 (MET)

I've edited this article to accommodate the Mage review in Patch 1.11. Zweihander01 00:23, September 8, 2006 (EST)

I've added a new version of a frost build for mages that fits more for those that want to go to endgame dungeons but still be able to win a few battles in battlegrounds --Angellic 15:53, 7 October 2006 (EDT) (Many thanks to Paladinangel of the Aszune realm for helping me find the right pinch of talents).

Can someone update this for 1.2.1? Thank you.

There are missing some lvl 70 talent builds. Does anybody know how 40/21 or 40/00/21 talent builds are made?

Perhaps a small description under each main build heading could be made for the types of gear a mage should be favouring for each set up? Ideal stats, straight +dmg vs +crit on particular builds etc

Would be great to get an update on the elementalist builds plz. I'm so tired of hearing about the 3 minute mage "I win" macros that take 0 skill. I'm sure it will be nerfed soon so I'm wanting to look into the Elementalist builds for pvp.

Updated the "Arcane Overload" 61/0/0 spec to drop 2/2 Improved Blink (worthless) for 5/5 Arcane Focus. The Arcane Overload build is definitely very viable, and has the flexibility for impressive burst DPS (second only to the three minute mage specs) with unparalleled mana-per-damage efficiency and extremely low threat generation. Kaelon 17:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Added "Support Raiding Frost construct" that's is a more raid centered spec than the one I have. Not sure if I should add that Permafrost and Improved Cone of Cold'd probably help with AOE packs Frostbite Q. Kelvin 02:42, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I have been using the following spec (0/50/11 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZxgMdfcIReRxbhG0o) with some success, so its a working fire spec that includes the icy veins talent... consider including it, if you will.

Icy Veins+Frostbite can actually be helpful for AOEing. If done right, you can actually maintain a bit of a buffer so you can have a higher chance of success. Basically, the swift constant damage of blizzard (with the slow added via talents) and the added chance to freeze from icy veins will help keep most mobs perma freezed whilst AOEing. -Kaelthalanor on Steamwheedle U.S.

Leveling builds
Any knows some good leveling builds for mages? I am sick of Frost AOEing my way... --SaudiGamer 15:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, AOE grinding is old school. Before the revamp of quests it might have been valid at certain level ranges but its not needed anymore.  In fact it is a good way to be come frustrated with your class.  If you want to level fast then go fire.  Five points into Improved Fireball, then five in Ignite, one for Pyroblast, two in Burning Soul, two in Flame Throwing, three in Improved Scorch, two in Inceneration, three in Critical Mass, and one in Blast Wave.  That is out to 33, need more?   16:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, much appreciated :) --SaudiGamer 06:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The Arcane Revolution build does not have a link to a talent tree. Can someone add one?


 * I like AOE grinding - Fire might have a tonne and a half of Single target damage for leveling but when it comes right down to it dropping 5+mobs at a time with a few blizzards is pretty damn effective. With that in mind, can someone throw together a frost AOE skillset and toss it onto the page? Razzik (talk) 12:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Old, possibly irrelevant
I've noticed a handful of the builds only wind up being 51 points, and a couple of frost ones refer to 'taking ice block'- we should probably get rid of those. Also, I'd like to either see the myriad builds put onto separate pages by purpose, or the minor ones that some guy slightly modified from another one and uses removed. Evanfardreamer (talk) 09:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Stats for builds
It may be worth mentioning the sort of stats one should aim to stack for particular trees. I keep hearing one guildie say that he doesn't have the spell crit gear for a deep arcane build, that suggests to me that the spell crit that is sufficient for one build will see another build perform worse.

A rough idea for the % of spell crit a mage specialising in one tree or a hybrid build would be delightful. As well as perspectives on the desired weight of sheer +spell dmg and spell haste. Should a fire mage eschew crit for raw dmg for example. Legather (talk) 11:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #11308
The following message was left by BarnabyG via PR #11308 on 2008-06-28 02:34:42 UTC

''Low quality text. The information may be correct, but this page could use some grammar and formatting.''

Builds update
All of the builds in here seem conjectural and more based on looks than theorycraft. I've started to put in the raiding builds Vontre uses in his Magegraf, as they came from EJ forums. The page does need some formatting. Adesworth (talk) 15:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Updated with new information
I'm labeling all the old build sections "lvl 70"


 * Please sign your comments. Also, I had already updated the PvE section with raiding builds and the leveling builds simply can't be outdated. The PvP section is already marked ood. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 00:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the Frostfire Bolt Raiding Spec to reflect the new stats from ElitistJerks. I have also changed the spec itself, moving the 2 point in Flame Throwing, which now excludes Frostfire and putting them into Burning Soul, which helps with threat reduction. LttS (talk) 02:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Great! I just took the liberty to remove the two non-essential points from the new build as with the others. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 04:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

PvP builds
How do we define which should come in? I'm thinking for arena we'd check ratings for high-rated Mages and copy their builds into here, but there's all sorts of other builds and battleground builds that get added all the time. Sometimes it's from people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing...

Adesworth  talk to me  21:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * However, please do not add text prohibiting anyone from adding pvp builds. It's not necessary to wait for the new season. Yes, there may be substantial changes that need to be made once the season starts, but some may have viable builds to add now. If someone adds a build you feel is not viable, please discuss it here before simply reverting their changes. --Dynastywd (talk) 20:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'm horribly overzealous. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 06:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Forgive me if I sounded offensive. That wasn't my intention. I was just puzzled why, when cleaning out of the old 61-point pvp builds, a 71-point fire build was also removed, then text added asking that no builds be added yet. I know many user-posted builds have their obvious flaws, but sometimes, some of us choose builds, despite the inefficiencies, because they cater to our particular style of play. --Dynastywd (talk) 14:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * There's some absurdities that come up from time to time (a 71-point fire build being pretty close to one). While it's playstyle-based, we can't afford to list every single individual build a person comes up with that picks up Playing with Fire and forgets Blazing Speed or goes 71 points deep into Frost leaving behind Shatter. But yes, it should be brought to discussion and I acted wrongly in that case. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 17:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm very tempted to remove the 0/56/15 Frostfire PvP build and replace it with a 20/51/0 Fire PvP spec. While neither of these builds are ideal, Frostfire suffers from a crucial disadvantage in that if you are hit with a spellschool lockout while casting, both frost and fire spells are locked out. This means you lose both your instants (Fire Blast, Blast Wave, Dragon's Breath, Living Bomb) and your control (Frost Nova, Cone of Cold).

Any objections to this change? Obora (talk) 23:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I have updated a few of the PvP builds with more up-to-date information. Notebly Fire and Frost PvP Specs. I made these changes based on discussions based in Arenajunkies.Com, Official WoW Forums and other PvP Blog's/Videos. While there are certainly more builds that vary slightly, I believe you will find these to be the most common cookie cutter starting builds. --Syxxness (talk) 19:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

PvE Builds
Arcane 56/3/12 - Arcane Blast + Arcane Barrage.

Rotation: Slow + Arcane Blast x2 + Arcane Barrage - or - Arcane Blast + Slow + Arcane Blast + Arcane Barrage. On Missile Barrage procs, Arcane Blast x2 + Arcane Missiles (aways with Slow - or a Warrior tank or Death Knight tank). Presence of Mind + Arcane Potency + Frostfire Bolt is my suggestion of use.

After 3.0.8 changes, I believe 56/3/12 for arcane is the best way to go Arcane as RAID DPS. You must get Slow. Besides slow not working in bosses as the spell itself, the boss will contain the debuff nevertheless making Torment of the Weak actually good. Using PoM+AP with Frostfire Bolt makes Ice Shards actually useful. This is an answer to the build I saw here (56/3/11 +1) - because Frost Warding does nothing to your DPS and is really weak for solo too, as you'll never use Ice Armor and even if you do, you won't get much from it. By not taking Slow, your only way to snare the target is with Cone of Cold and Frost Nova - both effects do not get on bosses and don't debuff them either. Slow does. It's ok if you have a Warrior or Death Knight tanking thou, as the target will be snared by their spells. I got Magic Attunement in my build because range is a problem with Arcane. There is a lot of Naxxramas fights where you'll need range. Student of the Mind is nice indeed, but it does very little for your mana pool and you can always use more spirit from other sources - 10% more spirit will give you between 30 and 50 in your raid gear - which a weapon enchant could do easily. --18:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)~
 * How do I put this... I don't think discussing what build is best is the way to go, but using actual theorycrafted stuff. The Arcane Thread at EJ lists 53/3/11 and 53/20/0, and that's what we should be putting. As for using Slow for TTW, you just don't do that. Check #7 in this link as for why. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 17:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Any properly specc'd Pally tank can also apply a slowing effect, so... you're pretty much covered. I agree with Adesworth.  With TTW changes, only time you might consider casting Slow in a Raid PVE situation is while kiting the slimes in Naxx Plague Wing.  It's just not needed, and every cast of Slow is a cast that could be causing damage some where.  I did mention in my edit about SotM being optional, and you have to look at the fact that any increase in active mana regen is going to allow you to be more aggressive with spell rotations.  ABlast x 3 is greater than ABlast x 2 in terms of pure damage, no matter how you look at it.  The deciding factor is whether or not you have the mana to do so.  Take Magic Attunement if it's viable for you, but it is by no means necessary. As for Ice Shards, in a proper Arcane spec, pretty much the only time you'll be casting a non-Arcane spell is on trash AoE, and let's be honest.  Who the hell cares how much your Blizzard crits for against those skitters? BuShroom (talk) 16:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

A Frost build was listed under Raiding, with the following text:


 * (30/0/41) Frost + Arcane Potency & Focus Magic
 * This build is designed for the additional haste scaling for Arcane Concentration + Arcane Potency as well as Fingers of Frost. This build sacrafices Chilled to the Bone's 5% damage and additional Water Elemental Utility for Arcane Instability's 3% spell damage & 3% crit, and the chance to POM Frostbolt at the end of Fingers of Frost to use the 'additional charge'. The primary aspect of this build is meant to augment the haste scaling of frost. Only 1 point is used in Improved Blizzard to give it the chance to proc Fingers of Frost and other such talents which rely on chills. 2/3 Winter's Chill should in most cases be enough to ensure that a full 5-stack is kept up. Notably some talent points can easily be switched such as Arcane Shielding -> Torment of the Weak and Ice Barrier -> 5/5 Arctic Winds, the core of this build does provide slightly higher single target dps, great mana efficiency and high survivability against splash damage.

"The primary aspect of this build is meant to augment the haste scaling of frost.", but it doesn't explain how. "2/3 Winter's Chill should in most cases be enough to ensure that a full 5-stack is kept up." Is very arguable, given the talent is no longer a 5-pointer. "Notably some talent points can easily be switched such as Arcane Shielding -> Torment of the Weak and Ice Barrier -> 5/5 Arctic Winds" These talents optimize DPS, which is the entire point of the Raiding section. This means the build isn't optimized for raiding and is at best an idea or customised build, neither of which belongs here.

I removed it from the page for discussion. Is it to be placed back? Adesworth  talk to me  16:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I say leave it out, it's not optimal in any way. Chilled to the Bone, Brain Freeze and Improved Water Elemental would provide much more of a DPS increase than the points this build shifted into Arcane. Additionally, in a raiding environment the replenishment from Improved Water Elemental would be necessary to make up for Frost's lower DPS. Obora (talk) 21:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the 0/18/53 raiding build and modified the description of and talent spec linked in the 18/0/53 raiding build. With the recent change to Torment the Weak (namely, that it is put into effect by tank abilities such as Thunder Clap and Icy Touch), the talent is mandatory for any Frostbolt build. A +12% damage increase on your primary nuke outweighs anything you can get in the fire tree.

I've modified the 18/53/0 +2 PvE build for the same reason, as the build linked did not include Torment the Weak. Obora (talk) 22:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, that's perfect. Those weren't updated for 3.0.8. Adesworth   talk to me IconSmall Mage.gif 23:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Leveling builds
I see little point in posting higher-level leveling builds, since they provide little perspective of talent order or talent utility, and are kind of redundant if there's talent-picking advice already. It would seem better for editors to focus on that advice and the lower-level builds that serve as a base for higher, personalized ones, or on the leveling utility sections of talents in the Mage talent analysis. Leveling talents are tricky business, and the more views on individual talents we can get, the more useful the leveling section becomes. Adesworth  talk to me  22:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

@ Possible (non-leveling) AoE section
If we ever have anything claiming to be a decent, non-subjective AoE builds section, it better have some math backing it up. Adesworth  talk to me  23:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)