Talk:Lady Vashj

Vashj
Despite Vashj's attempts to murder Tyrande and her fighting on the Highborne side during the War of the Ancients, she could certainly be a lot more evil than she is (she's not as bad as Arthas, IMHO, who slaughtered people for no better reason than as a "tribute to Ner'zhul"). So I was never really hoping for her side to lose when playing the Blood Elf campaign in The Frozen Throne. But, I always felt her battle cry of "For Azshara!" was pretty stupid.

Here's what I would have to say to Vashj given the opportunity: "Um, lady, if it weren't for Azshara you wouldn't be a snake-woman. Even if Azshara hadn't been defeated, the Burning Legion would've either enslaved you or killed you. Making deals with demons is very stupid.  Just ask the orcs if you need confirmation. You could ask Gul'dan if he were alive, which he isn't, because Kil'jaeden betrayed him by sending him to open up Sargeras' tomb. The only times your new boss Illidan ever did anything to help Kil'jaeden were when he didn't have a choice or when his judgment was clouded by his addiction to the Well's magic and he was faced with the prospect of the Well being destroyed. Azshara, on the other hand, did Kil'jaeden's bidding out of either greed or madness or both, and there was hell to pay. So really, stop admiring her."--Illidan Rocks 22:03, 14 Nov 2005 (EST)

Amen to that, brother. Am I the only one who hopes Tyrande will shoot Vashj full of arrows in the next game? Also, a question- who is the best with the bow: Sylvanas, Vashj, Shandris or Tyrande?--Ragestorm 15:11, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)

With three left, being the captain of the Highborne Watchers, I think Sylvanas would rock them. And for Vashj's cry, I think she's dug too deeply that it's worthless to try to bring her up ^^ But you're right, admiring a snake-tailed Night Elf is not very clever... --Kiro 15:36, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * (Just don't remember who's Shandris xD ==> WoWwiki check)

While its fair saying Sylvanas is best (it may be true) I must point out that the other three (well, other two, I don't think you can shoot an arrow very well underwater) have a few thousand years experience. Also, I don't think Kil'jaeden betrayed Gul'dan so much as ignored him.--Ragestorm 16:09, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)

Hmm, tricky... Regarding the best markswoman in all of Warcraft, my view of it is as follows: Sylvanas is very skilled indeed, but Alleria is indisputably at least as good. The two high elves (Well, high elf and banshee), though, are young and (so I assume) inexperienced in comparison to Tyrande, Shandris and lady Vashj, who all have had ten-thousand years of practise (Not that they spent every waking moment shooting arrows, but you get the picture). Lady Vashj is outshadowed by the two kaldorei, since she have been (as Ragestorm said) underwater, and even if her bow works there, she was a handmaiden running affairs for Azshara when Tyrande and Shandris fought the burning legion (during the war of the ancients), and was never much of a warrior. When it comes down to Tyrande and Shandris, it is Shandris' "thing" to be extremely talented with the bow, and although Tyrande is very skilled, I think her greatest power lies in being the greatest priestess in history, and being, as put in the trilogy "touched" by Elune, to a degree way outmatching any other (Even Archimonde couldn't break her shield, and made a buffoon out of himself trying to do so). So, summing it all up, I believe Shandris to be the greatest markswoman of them all.

And I know I'm 2 years too late, and that I should be writing at the bottom of the section, but I wanted to have my say on this subject, in context.--NerdKnight Xavier 15:52, 21 February 2007 (EST)


 * I don't hate Vashj quite as much as you do, Ragestorm. IMO, as long as she's fighting somebody worse than she is she should be kept alive. Afterwards, let Tyrande use Vashj for target practice if she wants to. :p


 * I DID kind of make a mistake about Gul'dan's relationship with Kil'jaeden. This might have been retconned by now, but the Warcraft II manual says...


 * "With Blackhand's ascension to Warchief, order was restored to the Horde. I was visited again by the visage of Medivh, who appeared more in control of his powers, but less in control of his mind. Petitioning the Horde to destroy the kingdom of Azeroth, but to make him ruler of its people, Medivh offered all manner of treasures and baubles to me. I assured him that this world was ours for the taking, and that he held nothing that could persuade the Horde to do his bidding. His face broke into a wicked sneer as he proceeded to show me the image of an ancient tomb upon which was etched the name of the Daemonlord Sargeras. The Tomb of Sargeras! The Daemonlord who had instructed my own tutor Kil'Jaeden was entombed on this pathetic little world! Destiny had chosen to lay the hand upon my shoulders alone, for Kil'jaeden had told me that the lost Tomb contained power absolute - enough to make any who could control it into a living god. Medivh pledged that he would grant me the location of the Tomb if only I would use the Horde to destroy his enemies..." -Gul'dan


 * Gul'dan also mentions Kil'Jaeden had not been answering his calls since Medivh contacted him, almost as if Kil'Jaeden was afraid of Medivh (and if Sargeras' spirit was indeed within Medivh, this doesn't seem so unbelievable a notion). So while Kil'Jaeden originally gave Gul'dan the notion that the tomb was the key to great power, it was Medivh who told him where it was and held it out as a prize for him, all the while knowing that opening the tomb would be suicide.--Illidan Rocks 17:24, 5 Dec 2005 (EST)

Touché, Illidan Rocks! That's an excellent point. Though I can't help but wonder if Kil'jaeden and Sargeras planned the whole thing before Aegwynn even got there. Anyway, going back to Vashj for the moment, her personality seems to have changed in the time since the War. I wonder if Azshara's gotten any brighter? if so, then there's a real problem underneath the Maelstrom. --Ragestorm 19:37, 5 Dec 2005 (EST)

I guess this is as good a place to ask as any: does this mean that the Queen Azshara and Illidan have formed an official alliance? 'cause if it's true, that's pretty bad-ass. Illidan's got himself the better half of Outland and a giant underwater city in Azeroth itself. Not bad at all.

--Wasted 23:03, 3 July 2006 (EDT)


 * We just don't know. Given Vashj's obsessive loyalty to Azshara during the War of the Ancients, we assume so, unless she's had a complete personality shift.--Ragestorm 07:41, 4 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I'm under the assumption that Illidan and Azshara have not formed an alliance of any sort, and that lady Vashj still is fanatically loyal to Azshara, and not to the one who seems to be her current master. Reason being, for lady Vashj doing Illidan's bidding, in my opinion, that Azshara, upon hearing Illidan's summons (reference to Frozen Throne opening cinematic) and recognizing him, decided to let lady Vashj, her (presumably) most trusted servant, take a group of Naga and follow Illidan, to see what his plans were. Now, for Vashj's Naga being currently busy in Zangarmarsh, collecting water for Illidan's purpose (Which I've heard is to recreate the Well of Eternity!), and being generally loyal to him to a degree that would go beyond my mentioned guess, I cannot say. Perhaps Azshara liked what Illidan was planning, and ordered Vashj to continue her work? Hopefully, these things will be sorted out in upcoming events.--NerdKnight Xavier 13:36, 21 February 2007 (EST)

Archery redux

 * Pretty sure Alleria is a way better archer than her baby sister Sylvanas, even before Sylvanas' brain started rotting from being turned into undead. Silme 01:01, 6 May 2007 (EDT)


 * A) Being undead has not dulled Sylvanas's combat abilities in the slightest. B) Vereesa is the youngest sister, not Sylvanas. C) Regardless of the fact that Alleria is probably better, Sylvanas and Shandris are her only rivels in Azeroth today. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:29, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Four arms or six?
With the recent discovery of Akama, and his model shift from Lost One to Broken as depicted in Rei's artwork, does it look like Vashj will have six arms instead of the four female nagas usually have? AzraelOpacus 14:53, 1 December 2006 (EST)


 * It would appear so, though not for the same reasons; Akama was established as Broken some time ago, so it wasn't like they were going to leave him with a Lost One model. With Vashj, they were just using the normal Sea Witch model in WC3, so it's possible that they've decided Azshara's handmaidens are a cut above the normal Sirens or Sea Witches, and have six arms. Or, Sirens could have four and Sea Witches six. Some explanation like that.--Ragestorm 17:49, 1 December 2006 (EST)


 * Guys, it appears that she has six like he said. Someone uploaded a datamined picture of her (kind of a sucky picture because the dude didn't frame the whole whole body) buy you can see a "fifth" arm slightly behind the second set of arms. Really cool model. But as to WHY, i think there isn't a standard for the naga important characters. Because we've all seen that Older and more important nagas develop different features...We can see that in this case and in Azshara too, who has the lower part of an octopus and snakes on her head like vashj. I think it's just a little design detail.--Pulyx 04:23, 17 December 2006 (EST)


 * Works for me. Someone remove that datamined image, please. --Ragestorm 10:29, 17 December 2006 (EST)


 * How many snakes does she have? --Evilgramps (talk) 13:50, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Lore vs. Tactics
What about making two pages, a la Kel'Thuzad, one for lore and one for tactics? -- T inker  er  16:23, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Talk:Illidan Stormrage--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 16:46, 23 December 2006 (EST)

What brighthead decided to make the "tactics"-article the main-article? There's so much more information about lore than tactics. Therefore the Lore-article should be the main-article. This model is used on Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas, Illidan to mention a few. Why would Lady Vashj be an exception? No, let's fix this article back to it's orignal state! --Odolwa 10:37, 7 May 2007 (EDT)


 * 1 page, rest should follow.. it takes "time", and there's a post about it on the village pump as well, dont expect everything to be done and ready in 1 go. currently neither the tactics, "nor" the lore page is the main article, but rather a entry page that would lead you to the desired sub page. though people view the boss pages mainly for tactical purposes.


 * its a concept, with room for expanding, that's why it was done. i cant make it "perfect" within 1 hour, so give us some time eh ;)  10:45, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Why must there be 100 articles about the same character? 2 is enough, with the lore-article as the main-one, and the boss-article as the second. --Odolwa 10:52, 7 May 2007 (EDT)


 * See the bottom of this page. Spreading the pages will allow better data spreading, more focus on the related subject, and better allow images to be impelemented without cluttering a page unnecessary(spelling?), its a multiphase project, so be sure to add your input into the matter as well. 10:57, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Picture deleted
The concept picture was shown twice so I removed one. --Blackmorsel

Redux

 * Correct me please, if I am wrong on this subject, but I got the impression that the "datamine-image-is-a-no-no"-deal was for the beta-test period only, and would not last beyond that. And by the way, that image rocks! It shows off the in-game model of Vashj in a dynamic way, that no screenshot wwould be able to do, since screenshots of instance-bosses are either just the boss, standing in their position, before combat, or blurry shots when combat has already begun, were all the spell-animation blocks the view of what we're meant to see. if I'm right about the aforementioned issue, can we pretty-please have that image back?--NerdKnight Xavier 13:14, 21 February 2007 (EST)

As far as I know, datamining is never allowed. Please check the dates of posts, as that comment was a while ago, and I have no recollection of that particular image.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:55, 21 February 2007 (EST)


 * Oh, my mistake failing to notice the dates of what i answered to - BUT - the image I was referring to was (As I now see) not the one the previous comments were about, but the image where Vashj seems to hiss against the viewer, that you, Ragestorm, deleted 4 days ago, and whose origins I cannot tell of. It was deleted for being datamined, but am I wrong in my belief that all datamined images are poor-quality and have a blue background? The image of Vashj seemed to be of similar nature to the ones found in various articles (fleshbeast, owl(and other hunter pets), undead, demons, to name a few) in many ways, and I would guess those images and the one of Vashj come from the same (apparently accepted) source. Regarding what exactly that source is, I am clueless to say the least. It would be great if someone would take a moment to look into this. --NerdKnight Xavier 15:24, 21 February 2007 (EST)

Leaving aside the origin of the image, which Shandris has faithfully and silently reproduced below, I removed it for three reasons: 1) It took up too much space and was in the wrong place (though this can be fixed), 2) the image that was removed in favor of it had nothing wrong with it and 3) it hurt my eyes, one of the ugliest and most useless things I have ever seen. As I said, let's leave the datamining aside for now (though blue backgrounds aren't a prerequisite, just so you know), as I mentioned it out of habit. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:58, 21 February 2007 (EST)
 * What pose suits your taste, Ragestorm? --  Shandris   talk / contribs  06:55, 22 February 2007 (EST)
 * Wait, what is the problem with sticking with an in game picture for bosses? I mean for things like mining nodes, herbs and general stuff you can find everywhere in the world I too find the "datamined" pictures much smoother, but I like having bosses with their environment, personally -- 07:48, 22 February 2007 (EST)



+1 Adys. I try to avoid datamining and simply don't do it when it's a boss.-- K )  (talk) 08:43, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * If something is accessible in game, I see no problem with allowing nice Model Viewer pictures like the examples given. However, like the above, I do think bosses are better served with in-game shots.
 * Now, since I think it is pretty obvious this article will need to be split soon to cope with the strategies and loot (volunteer please!), both screenshot types could probably be included as there will be a fair amount of space. Edit: so apprently this was already done, sort of. Fixed) 09:44, 22 February 2007 (EST)


 * Initial start made, feel free to expand. 10:43, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Book
In the War of the Ancients trilogy, which one was she first mentioned? --Evilgramps (talk) 10:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think she's got appears in all of them, but she isn't named or given any dialogue until The Sundering. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, looks like I'm off for a hunt. Thanks! --Evilgramps (talk) 14:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Status
What is the source for her being deceased from a Lore point of view? --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 18:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * WotLK Manual states:
 * "Outland’s heroes [...] set out to dethrone Outland’s malefic ruler: Illidan the Betrayer. They began by overcoming one of Illidan’s top lieutenants, the naga witch, Lady Vashj [...]"
 * 18:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Appearance section
It needs a rewrite, desperately. Right now it reads like a bad roleplay flag. What's the source for the info there, anyway? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Yes, so much on this wiki needs to be cited. As it is now, the first part seems to be from a later part of the War of the Ancients trilogy, if from anything at all. The "which she jokes about tripping over it from time to time" is a reference to a gag quote of hers in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. The "serving as her 'extra' eyes" bit come from the fact the naga can see out of the snakes coming out of their heads (said in places including, but not limited to, Manual of Monsters, page 66). The rest seems to be just describing her appearance, but I may have missed something.-- 20:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)