Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 2

Classification
I think we can classify Illidan in his portait as a Satyr and not a a Night Elf. If you look at you can see he has hooves and furry legs like a satyr and we all know he has horns... N'Nanz 13:40, 22 October 2006


 * Part night elf and part demon. I know that's the technical definition of a satyr, but Illidan has more demon than they do. Note the wings. --Ragestorm 10:02, 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I don't know. In my opinion it looks like a satyr with wings nor his skin color resemble a Night Elf. However Night Elf/Demon hibrid is the definition of a satyr. -N'Nanz 14:20, 22 October 2006


 * 'Just another demon/NE hybrid' seems to be the only valid definition as of now.-- K )  (talk) 14:06, 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * The resemblance is there, but there are differences. For one thing, except for his horns and wings Illidan looks pretty much like regular night elf from the waist up, unlike satyrs. The other thing that occurs to me is that satyrs aren't nelf/demon hybrids so much as they're a whole different race, like the naga. Before Illidan's consumption of the Skull of Gul'dan, the only thing that distinguished him from other night elves was his eyes. Consuming the Skull didn't turn him into a "satyr", but I would say made him into something completely unique in the Warcraft universe. Whatever he is, he is the only one of his kind we have seen.--Illidan Rocks 12:29, 29 October 2006 (EST)


 * And as far as I know, NE bleed red, not Illidian...---Firelord- 21:20, 27 November 2006 (EST)

"he is the only one of his kind we have seen"


 * Well except for other Demon Hunters going into "Metamorphosis"-mode which is for limited periods of time btw... and lore goes out of its way to explain "Metamorphosis" appearance in the WC3 manual and rpg. However, there are other ways to go about taking on the "Metamorphosis" appearance besides drinking from skull of Gul'dan. I would argue the race could be called "Demon Hunters" except demon hunters can originate from other races including Humans, and high elves. I don't know if the appearance differs between races however. Give me time and I'll update the demon hunter article with more information, as I am working on updating all "class" articles with lore as I have the time.Baggins 13:24, 27 December 2006 (EST)

It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation. And you can't argue that the race could be called demon hunters, that's a class.-_Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:07, 27 December 2006 (EST)


 * For me, Illidan resembles more a Nathrezim than a Satyr - notice the wings and especially the horns - note Illidan's in the TFT intro, and during the play, and compare them to Dreadlords' and Satyrs' horns). Second, note that when Illidan meets Kil'jaeden, he has still night elf form! So we can say that the Skull of Gul'dan gave Illidan power to change into a more powerful demon-form than he would have through "normal", demon hunter way, but could revert back to his former state later. Illidan was fuelled by Kil'jaeden's fel powers to become more powerful, to make his task easier, and probably by doing so, Kil'jaeden made a way to find him wherever he goes. Again, note that demonic-Illidan in TFT could use "Metamorphosis" to change into demon-form. I would vote for Illidan being a unique being, because unlike the Satyr, he had warlock powers of Skull of Gul'dan and being already "connected" to demons by the means that all Demon Hunters are. --Sul&#39;jin 19:36, 28 December 2006 (EST)

"It has nothing to do with the metamorphosis spell- think of it as a way for all the warlock energies of the Skull to manifest during transformation"


 * I agree, but all metemophosed demon hunters all look the same in game, :p...Baggins 19:42, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Hes not a Satyr hes a Demi-God


 * Demigod? Well, then most of powerful heroes would have this status as well (Thrall, Tyrande, etc.). I think that he's just very powerful individual, but not a demigod (yet). --Sul&#39;jin 19:09, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * I Guess the only possible Demi-God Hero would be Arthas... ---Firelord- 17:17, 4 January 2007 (EST)

The Lich King (Ner'zhul and Arthas conjoined) are more like a god. Demigod is a bit weak word for describing them.--Odolwa 23:51, 4 January 2007 (EST)

He's a satyr. By definition a satyr is any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed -- obviously this is the case for Illidan, who meets all definitions of the criteria. The only difference is he's far omre powerful than any satyr on Azeroth, and his powers have also granted him the ability to fly and fully metamorphasize into a spectral demon. I think the only reason why people feel uncomfortable classifying him as such is because the satyrs we know in-game are pushovers, but we don't shy from calling Aspects dragons when we can one-shot weaker ones flying around behind Blackrock Mountain.

As to Firelord talking about night elf blood - night elves bleed purple. I've killed my fair share of them in War3.--Zexx 19:52, 4 January 2007 (EST)


 * I quote our dear Maiev Shadowsong: "Now Illidan is nor Night Elf, nor Demon, but something more..".


 * He's one of a kind, I would say.--Odolwa 02:22, 4 January 2007 (EST)


 * By what definition of a satyr? A satyr is a more specific definition than "any night elf who has willingly given himself over to demonic energies, so much so that he has become transformed". See the Satyr page. -- 20:32, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Blizzard sources don't say "satyr" they say "a mixure of night elf and demon." the Warcraft encyc give his demon type as "unique" -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:37, 4 January 2007 (EST)

I think were missing a few things here. Satyrs are not demon/NE hybrids or night elves with a saturation of fel energy. Rather they are former highborne who gave themselves over to sargeras and became members of the burning legion through demonic corruption.

Illidan however transformed into a unique demon due to saturation of his body by the Fel energies of the Skull of Gul'dan. As for his appearance in front Kil'jaeden, that was either overlooked or propably confused by the cinematic creators. Anuragsahay 07:42, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

I have to agree with Sul'jin here. Illidan is definately closer to a Nathrezim than a Satyr. Sure he's got the furry legs and hooves, but note, dreadlords also have hooved feet. And Illidan's horns are also more reminiscent of a dreadlords horns rather than a satyrs. Also, one of my biggest reasons to believe Illidan is closer to a dreadlord, is the wings. Satyrs have never had wings, Dreadlords do. And finally, another big reason to believe Illidan is closer to a dreadlord. Remember when Illidan confronted Tichondrius in Felwood after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan? Tichondrius said something, i think he said "Who are you?" or something, but thats unimportant. Illidan responded "Let's see how confident you are against ONE OF YOUR OWN KIND. This all leads me to believe that Illidan is definately closer to a Nathrezim than a Satyr. Although, Illidan is clearly NOT a Nathrezim or Satyr. He is definately unique, but he's just closer to Nathrezim than Satyr. Nicolai Stormrage 21:11, 26 April 2007 (EDT)


 * He is also similar to whatever the type of demon, Atiesh is.Baggins 13:54, 15 May 2007 (EDT)


 * True, though Atiesh's wings are more like those of a Nathrez. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:34, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

--Austin P 13:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)== "You don't so much 'Kill' him as much as you sorta get in his way." ==

I'm thinking that the Illidan fight won't be so much Illidan trying to kill the players as the raid trying to block Illidan from doing something. Maybe a NPC to protect (that'd be new for a raid boss, I think). Then, when he gets low enough, he decides it isn't worth the trouble and leaves. That explains the "get in his way", as opposed to "be annoying" or "give him a workout" or something that doesn't imply a goal other than killing him. --Bobson 14:20, 21 November 2006 (EST)


 * Aw come on stop these rancid speculations! He'll be killable, as any other boss from WoW, that's all! But this death just won't be definitive.-- K )  (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Just posted today at the offical BC FAQ:
 * Q: Will it be possible to kill Illidan in the Burning Crusade?
 * A: Illidan doesn't think so. As a matter of fact, he's probably thinking about destroying your character for simply entertaining the thought

--Bobson 16:47, 21 November 2006 (EST)


 * Well Kel'thuzad didn't think so either before we pwned his face ... And neither did Onyxia, nor Nefarian, nor Ragnaros, netc.-- K )  (talk) 16:58, 21 November 2006 (EST)


 * Or C'Thun, or Archimonde, or Tichondrius, or going back so, so far... He'll be killable in terms of game mechanics, like it or not. The liklihood that he actually dies or stays dead is quite low.--Ragestorm 21:44, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Theres a difference between dieing and "dieing". You can't kill Illidan. If he does die it would be against someone like Arthas or Kil'Jaeden.


 * I would certainly HOPE so. Anyway, often you'll kill somebody and their ghost will thank you for freeing them from whatever made them evil in life: the ghouls in EPL, Cerebras, Eranikus (back when the Scepter of the Shifting Sands was being assembled and his story had an ending). I don't know how that works, but evidently in WoW you can turn somebody good if you hit them hard enough and often enough. :p Balnazzar might be gone for good, btw, since I just can't think of any reason why he'd show up again. He was a pretty minor character in TFT, after all. Even if he's alive I'll be surprised if he makes another appearance.--Illidan Rocks 16:53, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Personally, I think the encounter will primarily be the raid group assaulting Illidan, when after his life is less than half Kil'jaeden appears and starts bombing him the raid group and every other present NPC. The result being: you become friendly with the illidari- HAHAHAHA Anuragsahay 08:04, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

So tell me, what are to make of the "get in his way" statement now? Were they lying, or did the person answering the question not know the definition of the word "kill"?

Lore vs. Tactics
What about making two pages, a la Kel'Thuzad, one for lore and one for tactics? -- T inker  er  16:24, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I agree, though personally I think, main article should link to the lore, and Illidan Stormrage (tactics) for example, should be for gameplay. Since in the long run there is more lore than there is tactics. I think Kel'Thuzad articles should be switched in a similar fashion as well.Baggins 16:28, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * That's my plan. I refuse to have Illidan relegated to a page purely on how to beat him (as the many above discussions show, we're getting enough grief over the mere thought of killing him). It should be the other page that bears the name, like Illidan (tactics), Illidan Instance, or sume such. I suppose Kel'Thuzad should be switched as well. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 16:41, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Agreed. Lore first, tactics second. -- Kirkburn  (talk) 17:06, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Lore should be primary, but it needs to be a little more neutral. The current page looks like an attempt to paint him as evil as possible just to justify killing him and taking his loot. A real lore page shouldn't read like a propaganda sheet from Maiev (who, note, has the same "betrayer" nickname - guess Furion liked tagging everyone who crossed him as "betrayers").Silme 10:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)


 * It's not our fault that Blizzard has painted him as evil.Baggins 11:10, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Blizzard hasn't painted him as evil the way the page currently does. Sure, the stories - likely sourced from the current night elf government, largely formed by the biased Malfurion - use negative adjectives, but when you strip the facts of the "spin", a lot of the things he's done - preserved the night elves' immortality by saving water from the well of eternity, weakened and nearly destroyed the Lich King, taking the offensive against the Burning Legion - seem pretty admirable.  The page currently seems short on facts and long on spin.  Maybe I'll try correcting that.Silme 16:45, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Instance suggestion
Here's my view of how it should go: You'll understand the plot twist when you consider who else called himself "darkness incarnate."--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)
 * 1) Illidan, seeing a freed Maiev, stalks toward her.
 * 2) Akama and the players "get in his way" as she channels something. [NEXT, EXCITING STUFF HAPPENS WITH RAID! OOH!]
 * 3) Tyrande returns him to his cage.
 * 4) Illidan bursts free of his cage, and screams, "You cannot defeat me! I am darkness incarnate! I will not be denied!"
 * 5) The raid group and NPCs are powerless as he wings away.

As long as it's not something taffertastic like you beating him to an inch of his life and him going "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!! LOLOLOL!!" and bubble hearths out.--Zexx 17:54, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * I'm the Head Bookkeeper; when I make a proposition, it's lore-possible.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:55, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * Ragestorm would overrule Metzen if he had the chance. -- Kirkburn  (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * I think I know enough about Ragestorm to render this opinion: he would do a better job than Metzen has with the WoW story. No question in my mind.--Illidan Rocks 16:19, 5 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ragestorm would not replace Metzen. trust me. i don't even have to know the guy to know that much. Metzen does an amazing job considering the factors. And besides, Ragestorm doesn't create the lore, he studies it, like i do. Metzen made the majority of everything Warcraft. Ragestorm just knows alot about what Metzen has done, As do I. So please people stop saying that Metzen isn't doing his job right and that someone who knows lore should replace him. Anyways, back on topic, i know where your comin from with your suggestion Rage, but honestly it's really hard to tell whats gonna happen with that fight, Illidan might not escape. If there is a quest that says "Kill Illidan" Then he is dead in the storyline. And the death quote on Illidan's Tactics page, just makes me assume that yes, you do in fact kill him for good. although it is certainly possible that Illidan will devise some manner of escape, but unlikely really. i mean Vashj is dead, Akama and Kael are both traitors, albeit, Illidan doesn't know of Kael's treachery yet. Kael will probably die as well. Illidan's forces are done, and seeing as how he is a raid boss now, i suppose that players do in fact finish him for good. This is all speculation based on my more than considerable knowledge of the story. ~Posted by: Nicolai_Stormrage~


 * Uh, er, on topic ... yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of :) Edit, oh, oooh, I see what you're saying about the quote! Definately hinted, isn't it? -- Kirkburn  (talk) 17:59, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * Why Tyrande? I take that as a mistake, where it should be Maiev who puts Illidan in cage. Personally I think that Illidan would allow to get himself into a cage third time, no. He would rather fly away to prevent that happening.
 * And Maiev's plot sounds nice. I would also like to see her fighting alongside the player characters, it would be nice to have a possibility to fight with a legend like her. I mean, I love the "Escape from Durnholde Keep" thing, because you can fight alongside Thrall himself, like take place in creation of history. So fighting with Maiev (she lacks any other allies, so she might as well join a player raid party) against Illidan could be a nice thing to see. I still can't imagine Akama's role, except that he would release Maiev... --Sul&#39;jin 19:50, 28 December 2006 (EST)


 * You know I would love to see some kind of scripted event. You battle Illiden down, he's about to die, and you hear word of Alliance and/or horde reinforcements on their way who a few lesser ones rush in. He uses some terrible non-blockable AOE attack, "instant kill". Everyone in the raid and the lesser Allied npcs die, and he runs off.


 * However while you are dead and now viewing things from your body, you are not allowed to respawn. A few moments later, famous heroes sucha as Thrall, Turyon and the Alleria Windrunner enter the room, and start to mass AOE Resurrect everyone. Letting everyone know they had done a good job, and then allowing you to loot something Illidan left behind. It could be very epic. But knowing blizzard they'll simplify everything


 * Mind you I would like to see an event like this, doesn't have to be for Illiden(I don't really care if we truly kill him or not), though he would be an epic choice....Baggins 15:38, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * Oh, come on, that scripted squad (Thrall, Turalyon, Alleria, etc.) could be used to help defeat for example Kil'jaeden, but not Illidan... I think that a band of 25 lv 70 characters are comparable to 25 heroes like those mentioned before (in strength, not fame). Although I think it would be nice to see at least one scripted character helping players defeat, and IMHO best possibilities are Akama (vengeance for allowing/not disallowing Vashj to have draenei slaves, and to stop him becoming new "Magtheridon"-style ruler of Draenor/Outland) or Maiev (reasons known to all). --Sul&#39;jin 19:04, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Someone on the forums a while ago wrote a very cool description of how the encounter would go. It basically ends with Kil'jaeden popping out complaining about his wayward prodigal, and taking him to the TN to punish him, but not dispose of him yet.. Since he still has a use for him.

My personal theory is that right before you are about to down him, he becomes immensely powerful beyond reckoning, linked with a previous server-wide event where Illidan is available for downing. He wipes the entire raid group. They MUST DIE no matter what. He escapes and flees Outland for another planet.. Where our next expansion will take us, but not without leaving his pretty purples behind.--Zexx 22:39, 29 December 2006 (EST)

In my opinion the Kil'Jaeden popping out of nowhere thing makes sense...because he created the Lich King, so why shouldn't he do the same sort of thing with Illidan, and try to use him agains Arthas? I think that he hasn't come out yet to punish our wayward Outlord because he always seems to wait until characters are alone and powerless before coming out to do his thing. Since I am already mad about having to fight him, the idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair, but, as Metzen is almost never nice to his heroes, it wouldn't be at all surprising. I like the theory of him flying away, myself :))--Daughter of Sargeras 23:58, 29 December 2006 (EST)


 * "...he idea of Killie (I haven't much reverence for Sargeras' sneakiest Lieutenant, sorry) punishing him after everything he's been through is, to me, absurdly unfair..." You and I are in total agreement here. And if we wind up making Illidan vulnerable to the point where Kil'jaeden can swoop in and grab him, I'll like it even less. Oh yeah, and I dislike the idea that a guy as bad as Kel'thuzad would suffer less than a guy with a better (if not exactly perfect) moral compass like Illidan. Anybody read Knaak's depiction of what Sargeras did to Xavius? That's what Illidan has in store for him. *shudder* --Illidan Rocks 15:46, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * You people do realize that the whole point of my suggestion was the darkness incarnate reference, right? --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 01:02, 30 December 2006 (EST)

I quote Arthas, "Who IS this DARKNESS anyway!?"--Zexx 04:25, 30 December 2006 (EST)


 * He's mean, he's green, and he's an orc-corrupting machine. Do I have to spell it out for you? he betreyed his masters left and right? most evil warlock ever seen among mortal races?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:43, 30 December 2006 (EST)


 * ...That would be Gul'dan. Still don't get the whole "I am darkness incarnate" business though. -- Varghedin 16:00 30 Dec 2006 (CET)


 * I have no idea why he called himself that, as as for why I think Illidan should say it... think back; how did Illidan say he knew how to find the Tomb of Sargeras?--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 12:42, 30 December 2006 (EST)


 * The greatest Azerothian villians are puppets controlled each by a soul of two elder orc warlocks. Nice idea, Ragestorm, if I got it right! Everything in Warcraft is around orcs one way or another. Elf-Eluna-Alina 5:59 1 march 2007


 * You never know what kind of side effects you could get drinking out Guld'dan's shiny noggen....Baggins 13:20, 30 December 2006 (EST)

So basically it might be that "Illidan" has been taken over by "Gul'Dan"....makes sense too, I guess. But if you're speaking of evil, wasn't Ner'Zhul more evil than Gul'Dan? Not having really paid attention to the WC2 story very much. Oh well, the point is, Illidan's insanity and his inability to admit defeat to Arthas would probably weaken him sufficiently for Gul'Dan's memories to be able to take over his brain. Perhaps when you defeat Illidan this time round, he loses his connection to Gul'Dan? Now that would be interesting. --Daughter of Sargeras 13:07, 30 December 2006 (EST)

When did he start calling himself that? Now that I think back though it does make sense he was able to find the Tomb after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan. Our wayward Stormrage should grow very powerful soon enough.--Zexx 13:21, 30 December 2006 (EST)


 * Therein lies my point. I personally (and loreplayers and rolepayers should agree) see little point in encountering Illidan without a little more information on the connection between him and whatever vestiges of Gul'dan remain in his mind. When Melfurion says that Illidan is becoming deluded, my mind jumped instantly to the Skull.
 * To address your question, Sargerasia, Rise of the Horde raises questions that suggest Ner'zhul wasn't as evil as we think... (response to this comment should be moved to a different page).--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper


 * Which page should we respond on, Ragestorm? Because I would really like to say something about this! :-) --Illidan Rocks 15:55, 10 January 2007 (EST)

My view is on my Black Temple raid encounter theories page. Sorry.--Sandwichman2448 22:22, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

Whether to kill or not kill Illidan
I'm sorry, I've never seen the full transcript of the lore panel from BlizzCon, so we need to put up a link to the source where Metzen says we will not kill him. Else that statement is null and void, and due to the fact-tag I added, people will be able to take it with a grain of salt.

--Iluvatar 17:44, 31 December 2006 (EST)

BC spoilers: let's see 'em
I'm the Bookkeeper assigned to Illidan but have not played the beta. If people are reluctant about posting details about what happens to him in BC because they think it'll result in an edit-war (which I have, admittedly, sometimes allowed my overprotectiveness of the character to get me into), please don't hesitate. Post away! I want to know this stuff as much as anybody else.--Illidan Rocks 15:49, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * He's not in the beta. :) 15:59, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * Spoilers? Pff. You are not prepared. 16:11, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * Thank you...so much for the nutcase that said you can kill Illy, and get his head and grom's axe from him >_> *relieved* --Maibe 17:07, 10 January 2007 (EST)

DEMON HUNTER????
He can turn into a "FULL" demon when he whiches (metamorphisis), but so can other demon hunters.. I dun get it. He should at least have choas damage to show he's a demon... Also no wear (except ROC and TFT) metions hes a demon hunter. BLizzard should release some book about Illidan and how he became a demon hunter. Whats with his panda blade. Techinally speaking Illidan is a stayr. --Ramming pure 05:06, 15 January 2007 (EST)


 * They did. Illidan acquired the powers of a Demon Hunter through Sargeras. Illidan's story is fine, it's just that there's no sign of the rest of the demon hunters. The Blades of Azzinoth (another one of those RPG facts) have a panda image because that's Samwise's trademark, and it's a nice little in-joke. A satyr is not a being who is half-night elf and half-demon, a satyr is a being who was once a night elf but turned into a "demidemon", for lack of a better term. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:02, 15 January 2007 (EST)

I read the War of the Ancients series and its because of Sargeras. But demon hunter isn't a good title for him. Stayrs don't have to be night elves. I read somewhere about non night elf stayrs.


 * First off, you add new comments below the old ones. Second, he's a demon huner in WC3. Third, Illidan is not a satyr, and the satyr are not yet true demons. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:44, 7 February 2007 (EST)


 * I agree with this one. Illidan got the power to turn himself into a demon when he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan, he hadn't had that power before even though he was a Demon Huter before. So why do all Demon Hunters posses this abillity? And i think it should be permanent for him, for example he loses his DH abillities when he's a demon, but gets some others, or something like taht. Or he should have benefits in magic and other things cuz he is infact a half demon and thus much stronger in both magic and strenght than not only DH, but other Azeroth heros aswell (note that he consumed the Skull of GUL'DAN, one of the most powerful wielders of demonic magic even among the demons, besides Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Mannoroth and some others. Maiev says that only a few powers are left in the world able to rise an island from the ocean floor - Gul'dan did that). But about the Satyr thing, he is not a Satyr, he a unique being in WarCraft universe. He is more demon than Satyrs, and Satyrs don't get much demonic powers when they become Satyrs, only some basic unholy stuff. And about the horns and other things, that is a common characteristic among all demnos and half demons, so having those charateristics doesn't necessarily mean a Satyr.

My theory is this. The reason Illidan is considered a demon hunter is because he uses their own power against them, which is a trait attributed to the demon hunter class. --Austin P 12:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Can High Elves be demon hunters too since there are Night and Blood Elf ones. And do Demon Hunters have pets or minions like regular hunters? Mr.X8 00:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There has never historically been a high elf demon hunter, as far as I know. Alliance Player's guide is pretty specific that they are usually night elves and high elves, though there is a picture of a human demon hunter in the book.Baggins 00:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

So what about pets/minions? They dont have any like hunters, rangers or beastmasters? Mr.X8 01:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Illidan Stormrage acquired the powers of the demon hunter (most notably, the loss of his eyes and the gift that allowed him to see magic) through Sargeras. Oddly, nowhere in the War of the Ancients trilogy does it mention Azzinoth and Illidan killing him and looting his blades. In regard to Satyrs, they are in fact full demons, transformed by Sargeras into cunning, sneaky servants. Bottom line, if Illidan doesn't have goat horns, goat legs, and a goat beard, he ain't a satyr.


 * ~ Peregrine

General Info
Is there even a point in having this section. Other characters don't have it, or at least the ones I've seen. Anything in here can be directly included in the article itself. Also there should be syncronicity between articles, if one has it then all should have it or none should have it. To me it ruins the professional look of the article and makes it seem untidy. I'm not going to delete this because its a mjor portion but I would like someone to jutstify it being here. If not then I'll delete it. Noman953, 04:15 23 January 2007


 * Rather than just being removed entirely, it should be rewritten into a short intro prose covering the important points about Illidan. Certainly at the moment it covers far far too much, is inconsistent and invites the addition of pointless factoids. 04:37, 23 January 2007 (EST)


 * Agreed. For the record, Furion has one of those as well, but we should compress the info into paragraph format, in the same manner as other pages, such as Tyrande.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:15, 23 January 2007 (EST)


 * Edits are done. Noman953, 06:56 23 January 2007

Illidan Will Die
"I am not trying to start any arguments but it has to be said. Few of the suggestions above are possible, but a lot of them are geeky fanboy drivel that would ultimately turn out for the worse. First and foremost; when a boss in WoW dies, he dies in lore, in storyline, in histroy, whatever. That character is gone, unless, as in Kel'Thuzad's case, he boasts that he will return. Ragnaros, Nefarion and C'Thun are dead, and Kel was either rambling or he'll be brought back by the Lich King more powerful than ever as he claimed he would be.

Illidan is stronger that Kel'Thuzad. He was fairly even with Arthas, but as soon as Arthas put that helmet on his head, Arthas' power sky-rocketed to the point where he would obliterate Illidan in seconds. Blizzard said played will have to be at least level 90 to have a chance at Arthas. So, Illidan is stronger than Kel'Thuzad, but unfathomably weaker than Arthas. Level 70 is a very understandable level for Illidan. Illidan will not escape, because there is no future past level 70 in WoW for him. He is not strong enough to be a challenge for us at level 80.

But, Blizzard did state that we would not kill him, we could get in his way. Obviously, this means another Domo. But, unlike Domo, he will not escape. I think it was mentioned above, and I love this theory, that Kil'Jaedan will appear and finally get the revenge he promised upon Illidan so many years ago. That will be an epic story scene that should be enough to satisfy anybody. And I hope to god it will be CGI, but that is a little doubtful.

As Warcraft games have gone on, each one has become more emmersive. The first one hardly had a storyline at all aside from what you read in the game manual. The second presented the story a little better but wasn't much greater than the first. The third broke ground and made Warcraft great for story, when it used to only be great for gameplay. Now, Blizzard has taken the next step by letting 'US' become a part of the story. There is no Warcraft 4 and there never will be. WoW is going to end it. Do not flame me, don't have a cry, that is it. Illidan will die. Azshara will die. The nightmare in the Emerald Dream will be solved. Arthas, Anub'Arak and a reborn Kel'Thuzad will die and on the last expansion pack when Azeroth and the other worlds who still battle the Burning Legion clash with the entirety of the demonic forces, Kil'Jaeden (or Sargeras if he comes back) will die." Maarz


 * PS. I will happily answer any disagreements or inevitable flames you send my way.


 * And a bunch of "heroes" are going to stop great Sargeras himself in his quest. Yeah, right. First, please, tell us how do you know what Blizzard prepared for Illidan? We're dying to know that! And if you don't know that, don't be so sure when stating such things. The thinmg with Kil'jaeden coming and taking his "payment" from Illidan has one major issue - if Kil'jaeden does it, he will probably offer players to join him in his conquest or to die here and now. Players will probably refuse, and you know what then would happen? Massive wipe. Nothing more, nothing less. Kil'jaeden is more powerful than the Lich King, and the Lich King, as you said, is much more powerful than Illidan, so K'J wouldn't have problems in killing a gropu of 25 level 70 people. And then what? Well, there's nothing to stop him getting through the portal to Azeroth, to spread death and destruction, as the Leaders of the Burning Legion tried twice already.
 * Even if all villains that are killable in-game are dead in the lore, Blizzard won't allow to kill all evil guys, because this would mean the end of Warcraft - and there's still to be someone left to be killed in WoW2 or Warcraft 4, and thus, more money for Blizzard for their hard work. And Sargeras is "the ultimate evil" of Warcraft, and evil never dies, so that story may continue. 07:11, 23 January 2007 (EST)

There is a reason the "current status" of all notable mobs is left at "killable", we don't know for sure we really killed C'thun, Hakkar, etc. Sure we "killed" them gameplay wise but it isn't a credible reason to believe they have been killed lore wise. What you said makes it seem like if the Horde stormed into Darnassus and killed Tyrande she is officaly dead, which is of course, inaccurate. Hordesupporter 14:54, 23 January 2007 (EST)


 * Sul'jin, you couldn't be more right about what Kil'Jaeden would do when he found a bunch of helpless alliance or horde just standing there. I'd written enough already to go into any of that, but in truth, I have no idea how that'd happen. It makes sense the Kil'Jaeden would do something like that but the band of 25 people makes that more difficult to happen. The way Illidan dies, however, is not what I was focusing on. What would you have him do? Run away? I think that would be more demoralizing than killing him, having Illidan flee with a tail bewteen his legs. Or would you have him stun the entire raid and yell out; "Hmmph, you are worth my time... I mean, you came into my castle and obliterated the stronger of my forces, but I'm not going to kill you, instead I'm going to stun you while I give this hauntingly tradional speech and that give you some epics afterwards."


 * That speech was filled with sarcrasm, so to those not practised in it I'll explain further. You've just invaded Illidan's home. You've killed all his lieutenants/generals/bodyguars/whatever he considers them. And he's gonna love you for that (sorry, more sarcasm). So its kill or be killed...


 * Hordesupporter, your question is much easier to answer. Racial leaders are a different story, and we all know that, your just trying to find any scrap of information that you can use against be, albeit it valid information. My answer may be a little disappointing. Quests. If we won't agree that raid monsters do die, then we have to agree that what players accomplish in the outside world DOES really happen. Players ACTUALLY do help the Argent Dawn with their cause in the plaguelands. Night Elves ACTUALLY do help cull the numbers of tigers in teldrassil. Sure, the tigers are always there and Argent Dawn always needs help, but that's to compensate for all the other players out there. If we don't, at the very least, believe that quests in WoW's outside world make a difference, than WoW in itself is a giant lie. Our players are in a totally abstract universe from the official WoW lore. We don't even exist. When thrall dies there is no lasting impace on the world. He respawns quickly, as does all his guards. Similar to other leaders. When you kill C'thun, you hand in your quest to the brood of nozdormu, and they give you a reward. Then they praise you for having the ability to kill a god. When you kill nefarion or onyxia you hang their heads from Stormwind or Orgrimmar! You can do this a thousand times, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Repetance is required for online games, as is realism and knowledge that  your actually doing something, rather than running around making not a tiny difference in the entire world.


 * Much longer than I intended. -Maarz.


 * To expand on Hordesupporter's point, lore characters killed for quests in WoW are listed as "killable" until the quest is removed and their death is confirmed as final on all realms. Maarz, sign your posts properly, please, and you're right- it's entirely possible that your prediction will be correct. It's also possible that other predictions are correct. And Players WILL fight Illidan, just not kill him. If Kil'jaeden does kill him afterwards, we still put down "killable". As far as I can see, that's the end of the argument. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:12, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Illidan is warcraft's second most popular character. Frozen throne; they did a lot of work on his appearance, he was in Frozen throne cinematic, he was also in the burning crusade cinematic. to lose Illidan is to lose many warcraft fans. I think blizzard experimented with his death, but were too smart to let arthus kill him. just like Kel'thuzad he will be defeated but a possibility of his return will be ensured--Noman953

Blizzard or some unoffical source said you don't KILL Illidan in TBC, you actually destroy or demolish some of his plans... I think Blizzard is somewhat eager to kill him but the fans don't allow such thing. In my oponion, killing Illidan is the worst thing blizzard can do. In a matter of fact, if he dies, there are only the aspects to defeat Arthas, and we didn't see them since Day of the Dragon\The Last Guardian (don't know about the second, didn't read it...) but it'll be a huge mistake... i think Illidan and Arthas will have another encounter, with a mass WoW event or a 40 to 80 men instance... --Creator 08:08, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Arthas shits all over Illidan right now, really. Before he merged with Ner'zhul they were pretty much an even match, but now Arthas really just pwns the hell outta him. Also, blizzard have stated that with raids, they don't think that "bigger" usually means "better" they're never going to make a bigger instance than 40 man and that's if they even go back from 25 man.--Maarz

Blizzard can't kill Illidan due to just how damn popular Illidan is, most likly once his health is depleted Illidan kneels down, holding his chest in pain, Illidan says he does not currently have the power to defeat the players, he spreads his wings and flys off vowing to take his revenge on the players at a later date, although wheather Illidan would be allowed a chance to take his revenge I do not know, Blizzard may just put him as a stronger raid boss further down the line or something. Hordesupporter 20:20, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Illidan ISN'T Chuck Norris. Illidan is a Warcraft character and Blizzard can kill him any time. Stop being childish and just wait for proofs.-- K )  (talk) 21:07, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Blizzard can kill Illidan, because they are able to do so. Hordesupporter probably meant they shouldn't kill him, because he's far too popular. 07:55, 27 January 2007 (EST)

It's highly unlikly that Blizzard will let Illidan die, but, we MUST accept the possibilty that Blizzard will in fact kill him, until then I would suggest we not argue about this. Hordesupporter 20:58, 28 January 2007 (EST)

I probably shouldn't have used racial leaders in my example but, simple because a player completed a quest, dosen't mean the events of the quest happened lore-wise, for example, both the Horde and the Alliance have a quest to go into the scarlet monestary and kill the leaders of the place, how do both the members of the horde and the members of the alliance complete this and get congratulated for this and all? A freind of mine thinks that the horde and alliance groups banded together and defeated the crusaders there but that is impossible, because there is considerable hatred between the two factions and I doubt they would join forces to defeat something like the crusade, which is supposed to technically be an ally to the alliance, if this example doesn't prove that not all quests get completed there is a quest at the seplcher where an undead intructs you to murder his still living brother at chillwind camp for the horde, while the living brother intructs alliance players to murder the undead, if all quests do in fact happen, then the members of the horde slaughter the human and come back to find the guy who hired them was killed while they were gone, and the alliance discovered they can't be paid for risking their lives in forsaken territory because the horde killed their benafactor while they were gone, although in-game the player returns to the guest-giver and gets congratulated for killing the target and gets a bit of money for their trouble. Hordesupporter 20:33, 9 February 2007 (EST)


 * simple. this entire game is instanced. completely. every player, every single one, has his own instance of the story line so far. every quest in this game does happen story line wise. Kel'thuzad is dead because there's a quest that says You killed him. but he also may return because thats what the quest says. its simple actually. racial leaders don't have a quest to kill them so they are alive story and lore wise. each player does the story as if he were the hero of the world himself. As for Illidan, it's impossible to tell what will happen. but seeing as how Blizzard has in fact killed off majorly popular characters in the past. Anduin Lothar being a good example. It seems likely that Blizzard will in fact kill Illidan off. Although definately not written in stone. Seeing as how Illidan has a set death animation in the model viewer, and he has a Death quote on his tactics page, I'm going to assume, that yes, he does in fact die. Maiev probably kills him herself. Nicolai_Stormrage

We don't know if the events of WoW even occur, its possible that when Warcraft IV comes it'll say that WoW isn't canon. Hordesupporter 20:33, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Oh no, the events in WoW do happen. Ragnaros is dead, Nefarian is dead, C'thun is dead, Magtheridon is dead, Vashj is dead, Gruul is dead, Kel'thuzad is dead but has a chance of coming back. It is all true storyline. Kargath Bladefist is dead. all them people are dead. everything in a quest in WoW does really happen in the story.~Nicolai_Stormrage

You have no proof. Hordesupporter 22:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Nicolai_Stormrage, give us your proof then. What will it say in the lore? Both Alliance and Horde gets the same quests, involving killing the same bosses. It can't say in the lore that these bosses were killed twice. No, nothing that's happening in WoW affects the Warcraft-lore as a whole. --Odolwa 10:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Erm, Hello? Does anyone, by chance, remember Warcraft II? The game had alternate endings, for goodness sake. You could play as either the horde or alliance. Depending on who you played, the orcs won or the humans won. But in lore, Blizzard picked out all its favorite events and told us that those events had really occured. I assume that with World of Warcraft, it will be the same. If Blizzard ever finishes World of Warcraft and returns to strategy games, they'll give us a nice package of lore containing everything they really wanted to happen.

Now, as for Illidan, there is actually a sound file, in the game, which goes pretty much like this: Illidan: "No... Maiev... you have won... but the huntress is nothing without the hunt... you are nothing... without... me...!" That being said, just because the sound file is in the game doesn't mean that this particular ending comes to be, or that there are not alternate ways to deal with Illidan. Plenty of things get left in the game that never actually come into play.

We simply need to be prepared for everything. There's evidence for both sides. First off, Blizzard has a healthy history of killing off characters. Between Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, we've lost the Nameless Warrior, Bloodraven the Rogue, and Horazon the Sorcerer. We also lost Griswold (no!) and the entire town of Tristram (excluding Cain). We also just kinda banished Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto to hell, so they're not comming back any time soon to get revenge. Then look at Starcraft: Tassadar dies. Fenix dies. Even crotchety old Aldaris dies. Razagal dies. KErrigan goes crazy. Stukov dies (Stukov! Noooo!) Dugalle dies, but he deserved it. In Warcraft III, they killed off Uther. In II they killed off Lothar and Lane.

On the other hand, Illidan is kinda like the Blizzard Mascott. They make giant statues of him, and took the time to make a beautiful model of him, and do all kinds of concept art of him. He's in the opening cinema of TFT and TBC They spared his life from Arthas. Why would they just let a bunch of random people kill him? (true, Maiev strikes the final blow... But still.)

Well, it's best just to gnaw our fingers and hope that something happens to save him or to bring him back. At least if he dies, we can be assured that Blizzard will make it powerful. They're not going to kill their Mascott off without hell to pay.

-Kyn

Bloodraven and Horazon aren't necessarily the playable characters from Diablo 1, as it's stated repeatedly that many heroes tried their hands at facing the labyrinth. The Summoner is also said not to be Horazon, although this was partially retconned in the first Diablo novel.

I don't think you can compare Warcraft and Diablo in terms of killing off main characters. Warcraft has had the chance to expand much farther than Diablo has. Even so, the universes haven't developed in the same way either. Warcraft has always been about one or more overall conflicts, while Diablo was more about a specific quest, to kill Diablo and his brothers.

While I suppose it doesn't matter now, I feel like the best way to kill Illidan off would be to have him die in battle against either Arthas or Kil'jaeden, but to somehow one-up them in the process. --Austin P 00:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Illidan's transformation
Is there any lore on how Illidan got to be uglified? I saw an edit that mentioned that the glowing runes covering his body were a gift from Sargeras, although I'm not sure how that could have happened unless it occurred before the Well of Eternity exploded. It's assumed that Illidan was transformed by the Orb of Kil'Jaeden since he appears normally in the WC3 flashback to his conversation with Kil'Jaeden. Therefore, it's obviously a specific choice to make him non-demonic before Kil'Jaeden speaks to him, and more demonic afterwards. I would argue then that his entire image at this point was crafted or influenced by KilJaeden. However, I don't have any hard evidence to back that up. Anyone have any ideas? 18:49, 25 January 2007 (EST)


 * I've been back-and-forth with this with Noman for days. The tatoos are a result of Illidan's encounter with Sargeras during the War of the Ancients (as detailed in The Sundering). As for who transformed him, the Warcraft Encyclopedia mentions a demonic transformation in relation to the Skull, but just says that Kil'jaeden contacted him. Add that to the Metamorphosis spell during the Eternity's End mission, and I find it more likely that his transformation was a result of the Skull. Also, I'm not convinced the Orb of Kil'jaeden is a valid lore suggestion; it was a way to balance Illidan with Kael and Vashj, both of whom would have had some sort of Orb at that point in the game. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:11, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Just as a correction Ragestorm, they aren't exactly tattoos. They are in the sense that they are a design, but they are actually scars. The cuts stem out from his eyes and down to the rest of his body.--Zexx 09:25, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * I understood them at tatoos. Either way, "sigil" is not the term to use, as they aren't actually sigils or runes. What's your opinion on when he transformed?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:13, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * If we take TFT into considering, Illidan transformed after encounter with Kil'jaeden. In one mission, when he is already transformed, is a cutscene that shows his encounter with K'j (Illidan's memories) he's not yet demonic in appearance. Illidan was promised a great power for serving the demon lord, so probably his transformation is due to this "power", obviously demonic in nature. 17:56, 26 January 2007 (EST)

I'm well aware of that, having played that campaign several times. Please examine under the headings "Lost Soul: the Third War", and "Alliance with the Naga". I'm not saying it's clear one way or the other, I'm saying it's vague enough to warrant a mention of the unclarity.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:06, 26 January 2007 (EST)


 * Ok. You asked the question (and the word "you" is here ambiguous enough to take is as "all of you here"), I saw it and answered it. Nothing more, nothing less. ;) 08:04, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * If there's no defense other than the TFT interlude, I'm moving the demonic transformation up to the Skull, with a note pointing out the TFT argument for the transformation after talking with Kil'jaeden. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:44, 29 January 2007 (EST)


 * Seems to be the most logical. I may check the dialog in that scene for anything conspicuous, but I'd go with the Skull as being the agent of demonification. 11:31, 30 January 2007 (EST)

To clarify, the markings on Illidan's body are indeed stated to be tatoos. Archimonde is also said to have tatoos, but whether they're similar to Illidan's is not said. --Austin P 22:49, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * I guess that makes Illidan's species a man'ari kaldorei. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:53, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Behold the powers of the Head Bookkeeper! XD I want you all to repeat after me! Man'ari Kal'dorei it shall be!-- K )  (talk) 08:22, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

That. Is. So. Sad. ^_^ --


 * You're one to talk, have you seen your sig recently? ;-P But seriously, Illidan does fit the technical definition of man'ari: something that is "horrifically wrong, something twisted and unnatural and defiled...". -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:21, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Eh, whats wrong with my sig? -_^ But yes. Illidan does fit that definition. ;) --

Illidan's tatoos were a "gift" from Sargeras, before the implosion of the Well of Eternity, as were his new eyes (too bad he had to lose the original ones in the process). Afterwards, he's imprisoned, set free, consumes skull of Gul'Dan, becomes a demon, changes back. This is when he meets Kil'Jaeden, who gives him his nice wings, hooves, and horns.

~ Peregrine


 * There is no evidence that Kil'jaeden did anything to increase Illidan's power or change his appearance. --Austin P 12:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no solid proof, however it is almost certainly what happened.

~ Peregrine


 * Ignore this for the moment while I clear something up. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 17:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

"There is no solid proof, however it is almost certainly what happened. "

That doesn't make any sense. There's no proof, so it must be what happened? In all sources of lore I'm familiar with, it is never stated that Kil'jaeden increased Illidan's power. All that's mentioned is the Skull of Gul'dan. As far as I'm concerned, the person who did the cutscene in Frozen Throne screwed up by using Illidan's old model instead of his post-Third War one. It's an error, just like Illidan hanging around Mount Hyjal, and how Archimonde had to be summoned and yet Kil'jaeden can apparently come and go as he pleases. --Austin P 22:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Illidan's Getting Kinda Lonely
Hunted by own people and every other imaginable race, stuck on Kil'Jaedan's hitlist, Akama and Kael'thas betraying him and Lady Vashj generally agreed to be more loyal to Azshara than him... Illidan's getting kinda lonely. --Adonzo 02:05, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * The only thing I have to say to him is, crymorenoob. 08:55, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * Yup. He's cool, but he's insulted us, 'Yer not prepared' gna gna gna ... We'll just kick his adds and ass. And, by the way, I'm not totally sure that Kael'thas has betrayed him.-- K )  (talk) 13:11, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * To be fair, most of us are, in fact, not prepared. Your query should be addressed on Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:16, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * Well what do you expect. The guy is called the Betrayer for a reason.  I'm really trying hard to think of a group that he's worked for that he hasn't betrayed.  Now he has his own group.  It is only fitting that he get some betrayal thrown right back at him.  Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but part of that character is that he's made his world one where trust cannot exist, and he must pay the consequences.  Meneldir