Talk:Illidan Stormrage

''Archived discussions: Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 1, Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 2, and Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Archive 3

Is He Blind?
In Illidan's quotes it says he's blind not deaf, and a demon hunter named Leotheras the Blind. Are they blind and if so are those goggle-like things things that make them blind? Mr.X8 02:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Demon hunters (Illidan included) are TECHNICALLY blind insofar as they no longer have eyes. They CAN see, though not in the same way as everything else does.  It's more of a magical "sense" than actual sight, and enables them to more easily find demonic presences.  They tend to cover their eyes so that people don't get freaked out by seeing burned-out sockets in their faces.  Illidan is unique from other demon hunters, though, in that his special sight (and the destruction of his eyes) was a "gift" from Sargeras himself.  Not only his his magical sight far more potent and accurate than other demon hunters, but a burning green light emanates from his empty sockets.  This light also tends to shine through his blindfold. - Dark T Zeratul 02:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Demon Hunter. Go. Read. Pzychotix 02:19, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but they do have eyes, they have merely blinded them. Regards, --Theron the Just 22:29, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "Ritually blind themselves" could mean anything from the complete removal of the eyes to the damaging of the lens- even if the eyes are there, they are useless as a normal means of sight, which amounts to the same thing as having no eyes at all. Why are we even having this conversation? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Because people like to nitpick? Having no eyes doesn't equal having eyes that are blind (especially in real-life). Something is definetely glowing under the eye masks, and as it hasn't even been implied that they would have had their eyes pulled out (all the demon hunter Lore says is that they have ritually blinded themselves and they are blind, not that they would have had their eyes pulled out) it is fun to let your thoughts wonder. No matter. Regards, --Theron the Just 08:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well Illidan at the very least has no eyes. Since the other demon hunters base their skills and abilities off of him, I'm guessing that the ritual is somewhat similar to what Sargeras did to Illidan, which involved burning his eyes out of his skull. - Dark T Zeratul 06:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's likely the case, but they can't replicate exactly the sort of sight Sargeras gave him. Where is it written that they model themselves off Illidan? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:27, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

In the Alliance Player's Guide, it says about demon hunters that "As part of the ceremony to become a demon hunter, the initiate burns out her eyes with a magic blade to entrap a demonic essence within her body. Most demon hunters then bind their mutilated eyes with strips of cloth.

In return for this sacrifice, the demon hunter gains the ability to see the world without vision-creatures are visible as dimly glowing forms against a gray and murky background. Demonic energy blazes like burning pitch in the night; the demon hunter sees and recognizes it easily."

This doesn't sound like the descriptions of Illidan's sight in "The Sundering". The way it's described there is that he can see the same way he did before, but his senses are far more acute and he can now see magical energies. --Austin P 12:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Ummm...and just to follow up the above with a little side note: I have the artbook for TBC special edition, and on one of the Illidan design pages is a side note: "Demon Hunters carve out their eyes so that they are not distracted by visions of the real world, allowing them to see demon energy". While it is true that Sargeras burned out Illi's eyes in order for him to see with the eyes of a titan (ie magical energies), other demon hunters seem to take a slightly different route....if no less painful. Of course, Blizzard hardly has a track record for perfectly flawless lore (who does?), so the artist working in the computer animation department might have gotten it wrong, but still, seems pretty accurate for demon hunter rituals. --Daughter of Sargeras 23:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Illidan is probably not blind wearing the sash on his eyes may think he's blind but if he didn't have it he could see normally, just a speculation.


 * Please read the article before saying things like this. First off, Illidan has no eyes, because they were burned out of his skull by Sargeras.  Second, he "sees" things by sensing magic, also a result of the aforementioned eye-burning.  The blindfold has nothing to do with his "blindness," and is merely there so that others don't have to be treated to the sight of the hideously scarred mass of burnt flesh and exposed bone surrounding his empty eye sockets. -- Dark T Zeratul 10:05, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

From what I recall: yes his eyes were burned out by Sargeras, but I think the sash round his eyes may serve a dual purpose. If I remember correctly it was described that his eyes became replaced by some form of golden magical energy, so the primary purpose could in fact be to contain the energy and the secondary purpose so as not to cause all to scream in terror at the sight of the burnt out eyes. However, this is simply speculation and I could be completely wrong. Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 21:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think Azshara gave him the sash because she didn't like looking to orbs of energy as opposed to eyes when she tried to seduce him. So, yes, the not screaming in terror explanation, though given how powerful the witch was, it could easily have been more. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 01:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

My two cents is his sight is similiar to Daredevil. (talk

Memorable Quotes: Illidan's Death
Stop effin deleting Illidan's dying speech! ~ Peregrine

TY for that Spoiler Alert there Sandiwchman ~ Peregrine

That should negate the DNP on spoilers. :)-- 21:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * My only qualm is that putting it down on the page like that gives the idea that Illidan is permanently dead in lore, when we don't know that for sure. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 22:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wiki documents, not "give ideas". Illidan says it? Then by all means it have right to be there. --Rowaasr13 05:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Um... we kill him in WoW. Yes, yes, you can say "just because he's dead in WoW doesn't mean he's dead in lore, after all you die hundreds of times"... but the WarCraft saga is chronological by game. For instance, people that are dead at the end of WC2 are DEAD, like, FOREVER, same with WC3, and, invariably, WoW. Come the next WarCraft game, Illidan will be dead, trust me. Which makes me sad :( ~ Peregrine

I don't know if you've noticed, but WoW is in a different format than the previous Warcraft games. If every quest was official, than the world would be at peace because nearly every threat would be cleared out. But is it? No. Do quests necessarily affect the surrounding area? No.

Oh, and that statement about how characters killed in the previous game stay dead? Not true either. Medivh is killed in Warcraft: Orcs and Humans but came back in Warcraft 3. Deathwing and Teron Gorefiend are killed in the Alliance campaign in BTDP, but they came back. Mogor the ogre is technically killed at the beginning of the Orc campaign in BTDP, but came back in The Burning Crusade. In Warcraft 3, Ballador the Bright and Baelgun are killed during missions, but they're stated to be alive in RPG books. Maiev was said to have been killed in several RPG books, but she was brought back. Oh, and let's not forget Balnazzar, who was killed, BUT BROUGHT BACK. --Austin P 22:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Good gods. If you don't want to put the quote because it's written elsewhere or because of spoiler issues, fine. I can't tell you how sick I am of the "Illidan can't die!" thing. We don't know if Medivh or even flippin' Archimode is still alive, but that doesn't do anything! -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The deaths of all mentioned characters are explained. For exmaple, Aeqwynn used the last of her powers to bring back Medivh, which is how he is alive in WarCraft III. Deathwing's "death" is later revealed to have been nothing but a ruse in Day of the Dragon. Teron Gorefiend is resurrected by YOU, and as for Maiev... that was nothing but Blizzard changing their mind after the fact. Which is alright, because you don't actually see Maiev's death in-game. They just say so in RPG books. However, since the players will have to personally kill Illidan, with a 25-man raid group, after going through the Black Temple, there is no way Blizzard will be able to say "well, changed our mind"... unless they make up some story about how it was some sort of avatar of Illidan, meanwhile Illidan himself was miles away or something.


 * Well, he is half-demon... possibly immortal? -Whatariot34

Bottom line, all the games follow the storyline of WoW, and if Illidan dies in WoW, he dies in lore, just like Onyxia, Nefarian, Gruul, etc, the presumed death of C'Thun, and the banishement of Ragnaros back to the elemental plane. ~ Peregrine


 * I find myself in agreement. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Aegwynn came in later. Originally, in Warcraft III, he just came back with no explanation whatsoever. Day of the Dragon, it is not specified that Deathwing's death was what was seen in BTDP, as Draenor and the circumstances surrounding his disappearance aren't explained. And I couldn't help but notice that you ignored several of my examples of characters coming back. And I've yet to see any proof that Blizzard is under any obligation to make every single quest official, and you've failed to explain why the world doesn't change if all quests are official. All I see are a bunch of assumptions. You've also contradicted yourself by proving my point that characters can come back, and it's not necessarily explained well either. --Austin P 20:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

To clarify something, I'm not saying Illidan will never die. It's a good possibility that he will, but it's not quite a sure thing. Even if his death is confirmed as official, I wouldn't bet money on him staying dead given the powers at work in Warcraft. --Austin P 21:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

When I think of a character dying and then "just coming back" I think of somebody dying and then all of a sudden they're back in the action, and no explanation is offered. Even before Aegwynn was added into the Medivh storyline, we can assume some mystical power pulled him back from quotes like "I came back to ensure that there would be a future". I can neither deny nor comfirm the deaths of Mogor, Baelgun, and Ballador, as I, in all honesty, have no idea who they are (aside from Mogor, but I haven't read about his death). As for Deathwing's death, no, that is not confirmed to have been his death in BTDP, however it is the only explanation that fits, and Blizzard would hardly pass up a way to explain Deathwing's "death" as a ruse, to use him later. ~ Peregrine

Just because a character says "I came back" doesn't give any indication as to how they came back. That's also pretty much what happened at the end of The Last Guardian, he was killed, and came back with no explanation or a very vague explanation. In regards to Deathwing, it would make sense for them to be referring to the Alliance mission where you kill him, but a person shouldn't just assume that they know what a company would and wouldn't do. Just look at the people saying that Blizzard wouldn't kill off Illidan because of how popular he is. --Austin P 08:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "Bottom line, all the games follow the storyline of WoW, and if Illidan dies in WoW, he dies in lore, just like Onyxia, Nefarian, Gruul, etc, the presumed death of C'Thun, and the banishement of Ragnaros back to the elemental plane."


 * To be fare in published lore, the only thing that has chronologically moved forward beyond WoW to "lock down" any events was the TBC manual... and TBC just builds upon WoW quests.


 * No other source of lore has actually gone beyond WoW yet, or even locked down any major events let alone any of the more mundane quest lines :p...


 * APG, HPG, and MG have locked down a few events from WoW, and even made reference to blood elves soon joining the Horde (locking its somewhere near the beginning of TBC, just before Rise of the Horde's framing story). Yet, none of the major events have occured yet, Lady Prestor is still in charge of Stormwind (no great Onyxia battle had occured yet), Neltharion is still a threat, he's still making his chromatic flight, the gates of Ahn Qiraj haven't opened, the Qiraji still haven't escaped (Brann barely even seems to know about the history of Ahn Qiraj, and may not have even gone inside yet, and yet he's already talking about going to Outland), the scourge invasion hasn't happened yet, etc.


 * Its kinda of annoying, but it would imply that all of those major events would have to have occured all in the same month or two, just before TBC... I somewhat doubt that next book Dark Factions is going to move into TBC terroritory yet either, with the knowledge that apparently it devotes a section to the chromatic flight.


 * If the books finally do catch up with TBC time frame and many of those events still haven't occured it would support the idea that events in WoW don't occur over the same two years covered the introduction movies, but also occurs across timeline before and beyond.Baggins 15:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"Just because a character says "I came back" doesn't give any indication as to how they came back."

That may be true, bit it still means that in the storyline, in lore, something caused him to come back, as opposed to Blizzard going "You know... we kinda liked him, let's just pretend he never died." ~ Peregrine


 * "It was only a flesh wound."

In anycase they have hinted at the survival of Deathwing since his "demise" in Outland since Manual of Monsters and Shadows & Light, and even a reference in Alliance Player's Guide I thinkBaggins 16:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, just trying to think here...the storyline would put Day of the Dragon AFTER Deathwing went into the Dark Portal... hm, but Lothar was alive in DotD, so it must have been before... okay, so ftm Deathwing is "dead", although he could have pulled yet another trick... lol wouldn't it be funny if I was flying around Outland and all of a sudden I critted for 30000 dmg by Deathwing... ~ Peregrine

I'm pretty certain Lothar wasn't mentioned in DotD. Officially, Day of the Dragon takes place after all events from BTDP. --Austin P 16:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Ya in all the verious versions of the timelines DotD is set after Warcraft II & expansion. I think it was discussed in Shadows and Light, of his defeat, and return from Outland, and events of DotD.(the info is split across several different character articles).Baggins 17:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Edit:Ya, I just checked, the Alleria article discusses the battle with Deathwing in outland (only an off-hand mention), the post-Dark Portal, DotD events are discussed in the Krasus and Rhonin articles, there is some additional material in Deathwing's own article. The book is very unclear how he escaped back to Azeroth inbetween Dark Portal and DotD however, as far as I can tell.Baggins 17:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * oh, woops, you are correct, Lothar isnt mentioned in DotD, I was thinking of The Last Guardian. Wow, I'm brain farts incarnate. ~ Peregrine

- I had a theory myself. Illidan does seem to die, but his Death speach seemed a little... off for someone who was insane didn't it? Given his condition, wouldn't Illidan sound likely to try to fight his death rather than give in and simply die? I'm not sure and I won't deny the chance he's dead, but what if at some point in the next expansion it is revealed it was a trick? I mean Illidan has many enemies and would have reason to fake his death would he not?

I'm not saying he's not dead, but I thought of it and thought "Hey, what if..?" After all, I got to thinking of how cool it'd be if during the fight with Arthas Illidan appeared trying to even up the score with the Lich King. --Bloodtom


 * His speech sounded very much like the non-insane Illidan, so that is viable evidence. And no, it wouldn't be cool if Illidan helped out during the Lich King fight, it would be a sad cop-out on Blizzard's part, giving in to those whining fans who are under the delusion that Illidan is the greatest fantasy character ever. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed, Illidan's fans are starting to develop a Raistlin complex... - Aladara 03:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, don't knock us whiny Illidan fans, I still say killing Illidan like that is the dumbest thing Blizzard has done since mote farming. ~Peregrine


 * You've not quite crossed the boundary into whiny, Peregrine. You're still firmly in the "annoys the Head Bookkeeper" category, but to be "whiny," you have to advocate Illidan to the psychotic degree without outward vandalism. The degree to which you've advocated Illidan is "heavily" not "psychotic." -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I like Illidan quite a lot! I think his death was warranted, though... now if Blizzard would just not pull a Majordomo with Kael (who is my favorite character), I will be more than satisfied. - Aladara 01:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Mote farming is awesome!-- 20:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I always thought Drizzt ( or, you know, Sephiroth )  fans were worse...never even knew Raistlin was so popular up until now.  *shrug*  --Super Bhaal 21:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * KEK, am I that annoying? Like I even have to ask ;) hehe ~ Peregrine


 * Absolutely, Raistlin fans can be downright rabid. It's the tragic hero complex. - Aladara 01:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hold on! I'm probably a bit late to weigh in on the dead/alive debate, but I noticed some here have accepted that Illidan is officially dead because he is killable in WoW. That makes no sense as plenty of other characters can be killed such as Thrall, Sylvannas, Lord Kazzak etc, who have obviously survived. They may or may not be dead as far as I'm concerned, different timelines exist in the same universe here. Until they make WC4 nothing is set in stone. --Raze 04:54, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

While you're technically right, I point out, for the 2,978th time that Thrall, Sylvanas and other factions are only killable as part of the PvP system, and MUST be treated differently than deaths required for quests or quest-given raid content. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to be rude, but that hasn't been pointed out at all in this particular discussion. :)
 * In response to it, you're probably right about PVP deaths. In my mind, the battle would officially still be raging in Alterac Valley with neither Drek'thar or Vanndar dead. PVE deaths are still open for interpretation tho. --Raze 14:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the major difference is there is actually a quest that tells you to go kill Illidan which means Blizzard wants that in the storyline... whereas if you just go off and kill a faction leader, its just something you DO... although now I think about it that still wouldnt cover the millions of times NPC's have been killed in Alterac Valley... I think the most accurate response is that PvP deaths dont change anything, which is, if you think about it, kind of sucky.


 * Ah well. We still get to pwn up shammies, so it all balances out in the end I guess. ~Peregrine


 * Actually I mentioned Drak'thar and Vanndar because there are quests specifically to kill them. But if either one was officially dead, it would also mean that one side has taken control of the valley, which wouldn't happen. --Raze 15:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, both Alliance and Horde gets the same quest. So what will it say in the lore? He can't have been killed twice. --Odolwa 11:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it wasn't technically either faction who killed him. I think the lore is wrapped up nicely in this case. - Aladara 12:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you wanted to finalize the lore, it would be easy, given the ending of RoC, to say that separate Alliance and Horde agents teamed up (even though nothing of the sort actually happened). Technically, the two aren't at war at all, lore-wise, it's just that "tensions have risen."-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought that they are now in an unofficial state of war. No organised armies marching into each other's cities, just, killing each other whenever we see each other. Meh, doesn't matter. I just want to know if Illidan is "Confirmed Kill". If it is a confirm kill, I believe Illidan may return in the Emerald Dream. He might do a "Sephiroth" and "Never be a Memory". --Invin Dranoel 05:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

To confirm, in the "Lands of Mystery/Conflict" RPG books, there are numerous places where the factions either get along or ignore each other, and there are a few noted diplomats in some of the cities. So it's mainly isolated incidents that find the Horde and Alliance at each other's throat. --Austin P 20:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "but the WarCraft saga is chronological by game. For instance, people that are dead at the end of WC2 are DEAD, like, FOREVER, same with WC3, and, invariably, WoW. Come the next WarCraft game, Illidan will be dead, trust me. Which makes me sad"


 * Actually, not quite, there have been many instances where a character said to have been killed, or required to be killed by mission objectives in previous games only to return in later games or other books in the series. Magtheridon for once, Maiv as well, Baelgun Flamebeard, even Deathwing. Just because you as a player have to kill these characters in game doesn't mean they have truly died as far lore. Retcons can always state they were just "defeated".Baggins 00:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I already pointed all of that out, Baggins. :/--Austin P 16:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Resurrection. -- Buraisu  ( Talk ·  Contr ) 19:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Who ever said that there WILL be a Wracraft 4? If Blizzard does that, it can't continue World of Warcraft, whichis much more popular than the RTS's. Anyway, according to your argument, Ragestorm, even if they DO make a fourth installment, everyone will be dead! Even Arthas and Thrall and Jaina!Swiftstar 20:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)Swiftstar I would like to point something out: The characters made by players of WoW do not exist in lore! Blizzard would never allow a bunch of characters with dumb names like Buttkick and BloodyDead to exist in lore. And if they did, then nearly every quest in-game would be done a hundred times over. Characters made by players simply cannot exist. And if they can't exist, then Illidan can't be killed by them. Now, if all the players did exist in lore, then Illidan would be made unkillable. I am sure of this. Do you think that Illidan would have so much history behind him, such a large part in lore, if his ultimate fate was to be cut down by a bunch of players from Earth? I should think not! I am certain that the only reason that Illidan is killable in-game is for the fun of players. However, if Blizzard wishes something else to be done in WoW, such as Ragnaros being defeated and banished back to the elemental plane, or the gates of Ahn'Qiraj being opened, then they are capable of easily writing something like ''In the years of war between the Horde and the Alliance, many heroes and adventurers emerged from all races. Between them many adversaries fell, including Ragnaros, the Firelord, who was banished back to the molten core in the elemental plane.'' It would be easy for them to get rid of loose ends or spur on the story by doing that, and it would be perfectly justified. But for now I am sure that Illidan is safe. However, if you want him to die, then all you need do is bring Kil'jaeden back into the picture. It is known that Illidan prepares for his wrath, and plans to defeat him. But will he succeed? --Mesethusela 06:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Blizzard refers to the players in the story actually but while your character itself is not mentioned Blizzard just labels the group that defeated them as a group of heroes. For example in future stories Blizzard would put Illidan was defeated by Akama, Maiev and a group of heroes. Illidan is defeated and gone he won't be back. Leviathon 06:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I did mention the group of heroes thing in the italic text. And Blizzard saying that Illidan is defeated by a group of heroes along with Maiev Shadowsong and Akama... I mentioned that in it too, though I said that I thought that would happen to other characters, such as Ragnaros. But I seriously doubt that it would happen to Illidan. Take into account, would you, that Illidan is a unique demon-hybrid with more history than many other characters, the first demon hunter on Azeroth, as well as Malfurion's brother? And not only that, but as said above, Kil'jaeden is still out there, and it is almost certain that he will try to kill illidan for his failure to destroy the lich king. And after all that preparing Illidan has made for his counter-attack, do you really think that he will be killed by that group of heroes? It would not make any sense. Illidan doing all that he has done, only to be killed while in his own fortress? If you really think about all that is significant about him, then add that to what presently concerns him, I just don't see how you could believe him dead. He will not die, at least not yet. Everything points to him surviving, including what Malfurion says to keeper Remulos: I fear that the time may soon come that our bond is tested and it will not be as it was at the well in Zin-Azshari. And of course   the fact that Illidan is preparing to fight against Kil'jeaden. And it has always been my personal wish that Illidan would again confront the lich king, win, and regain his sanity. But I must impress how little sense it would make for Blizzard to get rid of characters who still have parts to play. I am sure prince Kael'thas will live. He is going to be summoning Kil'jeaden in the Fury of the Sunwell, content patch 2.4. --Mesethusela 00:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No Kael'thas is dead too and you turn his head into the Shattered Sun Offensive. He has no purpose in the 25 man and is only in the 5 man. So unless he becomes a headless zombie he is dead too come 2.4. Blizzard has made it pretty clear (and even said at the lore panel) they are willing to kill major lore characters like Illidan and Kael. They have explained the purpose of the WoW comic and other books is to introduce NEW major characters and heroes such as the return of Varian. Nothing points to Illidan being alive and while it may be hard for you to accept he is gone and dead. Kael and Illidan have played their parts of the tragic story of a person doing what they thought was right and going down the wrong path to accomplish that. Leviathon 01:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, perhaps Kael'thas will die, but I hope you are not disagreeing with what I said about him summoning Kil'jaeden, because he definitely is doing that. I can't tell if you are disagreeing with that or not, but if you are, then you can read about it under the "In World of WarCraft" section on the Kil'jaeden page. The Kil'jaeden you will be able to fight in patch 2.4 is a twisted, incomplete version of him, because he is still being summoned by Kael. But I don't want to turn this discussion towards whether Kael'thas is alive or not, so I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens, concerning Illidan as well. Theres really no reason to continue this debate. Just as long as you know "I remain unconvinced." (P.S.- you have not countered all my arguments that Illidan is still alive, and if you analyze our posts and compare them, you should find that mine is superior. If that is not what you find, then you have done something wrong.) --Mesethusela 17:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I know Kael is the one who summoned him but he is not in the 25 man. It seems he served his purpose and Kil'jaeden is having his warlocks finish the actual summoning. Kil'jaeden is not twisted and incomplete because of Kael summoning him but merely because you fight him as he is entering Azeroth and not fully through the Sunwell. The last bit of your paragraph seems pretty egotistical also and nothing but your opinion. Leviathon 19:41, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Alright, I'll admit that I didn't completely research what is going on at the sunwell, but I can still counter some. It would appear that, yes, Kil'jaeden's warlocks are finishing the summoning, but it does not matter who is actually doing the summoning. Kil'jaeden is still incomplete when you fight him. But the original point that I was trying to make when I said Kael was summoning Kil'jaeden, is that Kael is still alive. You wrote that he is dead, and even referred to how players can complete that one quest where you get his head. That leads me to believe that you were considering him as dead at the time. But, obviously, I was right about that. And, as far as I can tell, I was also right about Illidan still being alive, since you still have not countered my arguments for him being so. But I am not trying to trigger further arguments on that topic, as we have already pretty much worn it out. If you wish to further discuss Kael'thas and the Sunwell Plateau, please do so on his own talk page (where i will not be joining), since this one still belongs to Illidan (who is alive). The only thing to do now is wait and see what happens with him. If he is indeed dead by the time the Wrath of the Lich King comes out, then I will apologize to you on your own talk page. Right now, I want to apologize for the last sentence of my last post. If I offended you at all, that was not my intent. But again, as far as I can tell, I have been right all along, except of course for that minor detail as to whom the current summoner of Kil'jaeden is. If you are still not convinced, then I must warn you, I shan't give up this argument very easily. The best thing to do now is just drop it and wait. Keep on shining. --Mesethusela 01:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Having arguments for being him alive doesn't make him so. As far as the current state of WoW is concerned, Illidan is dead unless proven otherwise. Blizzard made no possibility of him being alive known, unlike Kael'thas, who EXPLICITLY states that he lives, when you turn in the Verdant Sphere. Illidan does no such thing. Honestly, do you think Maiev would make the big screw-up of mistaking Illidan for dead, and let him go free? After all this time? As for a "group of heroes" unable to do anything, I suppose that nothing we ever do will become set in stone, and that everyone is going to suddenly be alive when WC4 comes along. Really, your argument is more along the lines of denial than anything else, and we've already covered that waaaaaaaaaaay in the beginning of this thread. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 15:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Reason why I stopped arguing with him :p. Someone so far into denial will never accept the other side of a argument no matter how much the odds are stacked against them with actual proof. Illidan is dead as far as lore is concerned right now and until Blizzard does something in game or in a new book saying otherwise thats how it is. Leviathon 16:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Guys, I am not in denial. I mean, of course I don't want Illidan to die, or else I would not have gone through all this trouble. Still, I am not arguing that he is alive just because I want him to be, but rather because that is what I really believe, just as I believe I have good evidence to back that up. I am sure I will not be able to convince you, however. Everything I have said is my opinion after all, even if it does make sense. Most of what you have written also makes sense, and I will respect your opinions. Either of us could be right, and though I still believe myself to be that one, there is of course always the chance that I am completely wrong, and perhaps missing some vital piece of information that could totally change my mind on the subject. I wish there were a way to meld our minds and communicate for a moment, so as to completely understand each other and to confirm that we both have valid information. But I have already stated most of my points more than once, and I shall not write them again. So I guess whatever I have to say from now on will be kinda weak. One more thing: I want to point out that I have viewed and accepted both sides of the argument. I carefully read and re-read everything you wrote, and then countered all of them(i think). But again, we really should drop it(at least until we receive more news on Illidan), even little comments, because I will just be tempted to respond, which will result in more wasted time for us. I have given my opinion, and you have given yours. We must respect those opinions. Only time will really solidly determine which one is correct. I look forward to that time. Farewell. --Mesethusela 09:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Humanoid
Illidan is classed as Humanoid in-game, not Demon. I guess that's an ultimate proof of Illidan being more Night Elf than Demon? --Odolwa 14:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really, given that the Warcraft Encyclopedia groups him with demons and not Night elves. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope. He's classified as a Demon. See Nihilum's killing video. --Lkangaroo 13:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, he certainly were classed as Humanoid when I met him on Netherwing Ledge. Very strange, two sources tells a different story.-Odolwa 20:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * He is a Demonic Night Elf. Easy. ^_^ --Invin Dranoel 05:54, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Well if you go into the RPG he's an "Outsider (demonic, and evil)".Baggins 19:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I've been going through the Warcraft Encyclopedia lately, and they always refer to him as a demon. For what that's worth.--Austin P 11:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

"You don't so much kill him..."
Uh huh. So were they lying, or did the person delievering that statement not know what it means to kill someone? --Austin P 12:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Or was acting on information he thought true at the time. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, you and your fair, reasonable asumptions...--Austin P 15:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What'd that mean?-- K )  (talk) 16:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

To be truthful, he does trap all of you, and could easily kill all of you while encaged, but Maiev comes along and releases everyone. Besides, it's not Blizzard policy to give away such vital information. —Pzychotix (talk · contr) 16:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

While it may not have been the case here, there's a difference between not giving away vital information and being purpously misleading. --Austin P 21:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is true, but we have no idea what his intentions were- whatever they were, it doesn't actually matter at all. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Why? --Austin P 03:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not going in the article, and it has no bearing whatsoever on Illidan's actual status or speculated status. Illidan died, and an employee's statement turned out wrong. I fail to see the relveance. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Maiev killed him...not the player...soo...--Gurluas 12:33, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Leaping Liches, he's right. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a conspiracy! They're in CAhoots! -whatariot34

I was wondering about that, whether it could be said that the player can get in his way, but the player isn't what killed him.

Would it be within the guidelines for me to post a random analysis of Illidan's character here? It's something I've been wanting to do for awhile, but haven't gotten the chance. --Austin P 16:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd really rather you didn't. This article is already too long because people keep overrating him. If you decided to do such an analysis of several characters, that would be one thing, but I don't think it's fair to have a huge amount of Illidan-based stuff when there are characters just as important. If you'd like to post the analysis on your talk page, though, and discuss within the confines of your page, I think that would be fine. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, once we can see what the analysis looks like, it's easier to make decisions :) 19:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If it's a very good analysis, we may even delete something from this article to put it in!
 * Seriously, it would definetly be an interesting thing to read, regardless of whether it's put in the article.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll do that next time the urge hits me. I don't know if anything I'd say could be applied to the article, it's just something I want to do for fun. --Austin P 02:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

On my talk page if anyone wants to check it out. --Austin P 13:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

What the hell?
Ragestorm I'm getting kind of sick of you deleting everything I do on here, there was nothing wrong with my Illidan Stormrage pic there why on earth did you go and get rid of it. ~ Peregrine
 * First, it has horrid compression quality. Second, it has ugly blue background. Modelviewer images are not a preferred source, please ease up with the model viewer obsession. -- 20:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was deleting that picture before you came along, and Kirochi did as well. The problem's not you, it's the kriffin' article. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

"First, it has horrid compression quality. Second, it has ugly blue background."

I'm not sure what you mean about the compression quality, however if you want I can further falsify the picture by adding it to a WoW background... ~ Peregrine


 * Falsify = Bad.-- 21:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We only got over the recoloring crisis a few months ago- let's NOT open a similar wound. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

"Recoloring crisis"? ~ Peregrine


 * Someone went around coloring Metzen's grayscale drawings and posting them as headline limages- not well recieved. Adding backdrops to the model viewer image amounts to the same thing. Model viewer images just look rather unprofessional. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, we'll just go and get rid of every screenshot from the WoW Model Viewer in wowwiki... that includes my picture, and kirochi's, just on the Illidan page... I assume you'll want to delete WoW Model Viewer as well... And FYI I was kidding about adding a backdrop, but if you really want I can change the background color to like an evil black or something... I think people deserve to see Illidan in as much glory as possible without having to watch Nihilum's poor-quality kill video. ~ Peregrine


 * Now you're exagerrating (sarcasm recieved). You know perfectly well that the model viewer article won't be removed. One thing: how many other WoW model viewer shots do you see in character articles? Heck, deleting the one of Kael has been turned into an art form!
 * I'm not going to pretend this was handled properly, but I have a tendency to revert immediately, and you have a tendency to not react to discussions, so here we are.
 * How does that image (FYI, the image you pin on Kirochi is actually Syntopia's, and it's already been removed) show Illidan's "glory?" -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

It's such a dramatic screenshot, and I don't think the blue backdrop ruins it.... hm, would creating a page where players could post their WoW Model Viewer screenshots be some sort of violation? There seems to be a rule to revert every edit I do. ~ Peregrine


 * Bad compression produces all the artifacts around the image in the blue area. As far as background color, the best solution would be a transparent background. From what I have seen from your contribution history, your images are mostly being reverted more simply for poor placement and quality. However, it still stands that Model viewer images are not preferred. -- 01:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't speak for anyone else, but the reversion issue you have with me is (well, was) explainable. You posted a theory based on shoddy evidence, I removed, you put it back. I started a discussion (thus far, this is typical editing behavior). You didn't respond. Continue in this vein for a while, and the current situation emerges. (If you wish to continue this side of the discussion, move to usertalk).
 * As Gryphon said, model viewer images aren't enjoyed in general, regardless of the situation.. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Again I ask, would creating a page where players could post their WoW Model Viewer screenshots be some sort of violation? (I'm kind of moved away fro the discussion above, thinking about making a page where ALL players CAN post their cool WoW Model Viewer screenshots...) Maybe some kind of subpage from WoW Model Viewer? ~ Peregrine


 * I'm going to take the "out of my department" stance. The only thing I can say to that is that it isn't particularly encyclopedic (and Illidan is already all over the official page), but as I say, out of my department. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:29, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The Wiki isn't free image hosting, there are image policies. Cool is highly subjective and a model viewer screenshot gallery is not informative. That is better left to another website. -- 17:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thought it would be best to ask before I did something like that that would obviously have some sort of regulation of some sort. ~ Peregrine


 * Regarding Model Viewer, a similar discussion was had here - WoWWiki talk:Image guidelines. The guidelines do not specifically cover the viewer as it is some best discussed rather than turned into a set of 'laws' in my eyes. Generally it's okay so long as it looks good, is not an image of unreleased content and is appropriate for the page. For a character, one would want an in-game image, whereas for a generic beastie, a transparent PNG works very well. 17:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Illidan is a raid boss and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather see a WoW Model Viewer shot of him roaring or posing with his skull than him flailing madly with 'Killerork', 'hotxnelf' and 'twinksforlife' dancing around him like lunatics. ~ Lord Azkera

Sargeras and Illidan?
Why would Sargeras give Illidan powers since Illidan is a demon hunter, which fights against demons and the Burning Legion. I mean how could Sargeras not know, since don't you think Sargeras knew he was going to be one? Mr.X8 21:59, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not like Sargeras GAVE Illidan his eye. The eye was simply stashed there, as a powerful artifact, which Illidan claimed. And besides, Illidan was working under Kil'jaeden at that time, and I don't see any reason why Sargeras would dislike him. --Odolwa 01:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In the War of the Ancients, Illidan betrayed the Night Elves and joined Sargeras and the Burning Legion. That was when Sargeras gave him his new shiny eyes (or lack thereof) and the tattoos on his chest. ~ Peregrine


 * Exactly. Actually, the Demon Hunter class is a game mechanic- Illidan possesses Demon Hunter-like abilities but isn't technically one of them (and definetly wasn't one of them when Sargeras gave him the eyes). -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That confuses me a little... there's a demon hunter in Nagrand named Altruis the Sufferer who talks about Illidan and says that he still has great respect for him, because without him he wouldn't have found his path. There are also the three night elf demon hunters at the Black Temple, not to mention all the blood elves who are training... and Altruis talks about that too, mentioning how Illidan allowed Kael to send five blood elves to train under him as demon hunters. I can't remember the exact wording, but he says something to the effect of, "Illidan put them through ruthless training that even a veteran demon hunter would struggle with." In WC3, Illidan also says, "Are there demons nearby?" when you click on him. From all this evidence, I'm inclined to believe that he actually is a demon hunter... then again, were they around at the time when Sargeras did this to him?  If his intentions all along were to betray the Legion - and from what I remember from the books, they were - that would make sense. Also, all the demon hunters I've seen in game have the same tattoos and such as Illidan, even the lone female (Alandien, at the Black Temple). -  Aladara 16:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Illidan is willing to serve to legion while they offered him magical powers. This happened in the first war with Sargeras, as well as the second war where Kil'jaedan offered him power in return for taking out the lich king. Since he has failed in doing so in WC3 Frozen Throne, he has reverted back to hunting demons for his own protection. Raze 06:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

"In the War of the Ancients, Illidan betrayed the Night Elves and joined Sargeras and the Burning Legion."

Actually, in the current trilogy Illidan was planning to betray the Legion. --Austin P 13:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Knaak's work coincides almost exactly with Blizzard's "official" lore. Almost. Thats one point on which they differ, and personally, I'll choose to believe the guys who made the game in the first place. Not that theres anything wrong with Knaak's, personally I think Illidan SHOULD have done that in Lore, but Blizzard and Knaak differ on that point. ~ Peregrine
 * Huh? So which are you throwing out, the encyclopedia/wc3 or the books?... --Sky (t · c · w) 06:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Blizzard worked closely with Knaak on the novels, as they did in all the novels. Changes made were changes they either wanted or approved of. --Austin P 14:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The books, overall I approve of Knaak's, admittedly minor, changes, but Blizzard lore is still the "offical" lore. ~ Peregrine
 * "Huh? So which are you throwing out, the encyclopedia/wc3 or the books?"
 * Why? Last I checked, everything is overseen by Metzen, making it just as official. Now why would you throw out the books? Even the bookkeepers operate under the idea that the books are more official than the history for that time. --Sky (t · c · w) 20:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, whatever they want to do, that's their business, not mine. Personally, I choose to follow the lore stated on the site or stated in comments by Blizzard. When they change their lore to coincide with Knaak's, I'll follow it just as devotedly. ~ Peregrine

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/faq.html

Proof that it's official. --Austin P 02:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, ty for that proof, I seem to recall reading in the WoW Encyclopedia that Illidan betrayed them in the War of the Ancients, guess they changed it. ~ Peregrine
 * Except Knaak's "lore" is Blizzard's lore; everything is overseen by Metzen (please read said page). Even the RPG, which is outside what most people would call lore. It, however, still fits into the Warcraft world. Metzen even mentions in Metzen on lore that he makes booboos, or misses things. Tbh, both series of events are correct; the books just rewrote what happened the first time around. ;). --Sky (t · c · w) 05:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The books aren't always law. Female dwarves had beards in Day of the Dragon, though I'm sure it was written before there were plans for them to become playable. Raze 06:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * True, but you disqualify the first part of the latter sentence with the second part. Hell, we didn't see female dwarves in war3 at all. ;P --Sky (t · c · w) 06:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or maybe they decided to shave them off. =P —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 08:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want to get technical (I know I do), DotD said that beards were a sign of beauty among dwarves, so it would seem unlikely that many would shave 'em. --Austin P 00:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Psh, I know what happened. American teen magazines happened. =D —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 07:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

But...America doesn't exist on Azeroth.

<_> --Austin P 17:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Head asplode! --Sky (t · c · w) 18:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * He means the looks were tooled to be attractive to humans. Which we are (I hope) in real life for marketing reasons. This is starting to get off topic.-- 18:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It's also quite likely that they just forgot about it. It's only on one page, and I doubt many people care.

So, how bout that Illidan guy? What an animal. --Austin P 19:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC) I heard somewhere that Kael'THas has/had a special bond with Illidan....something about him getting his powers from Illidan i think.....if Kael will be a traitor of the legion like somebody said he might become then what if he will be able to revive Illidan and join THe Army of the Light?And i heard dome demons could be revived ,blizz declared Illidan alive after Frozen Throne becaude he was popular ,i suppose he still is so why wouldn't he be declared at least revivable or something like that?OK he'll probably be revived without his weapons and most of his possesions but if this would happen in Warcraft4 then it wouldn't be a problem(they could make a mission about him regaining his weapons or getting other weapons).Sorry if you think it's an idiotic sugestion but i wanted you to hear my opinion which is why the discussion page exists-Marakanis


 * To be technical, the Discussion page exists to discuss changes to the article. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

They always meant for Illidan to be alive. They just didn't have time to do their battle with full cinematic graphics, and if they had it would've apparently shown that Illidan lived. --Austin P 15:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Actually i read somewhere that they let him live because of his popularity ....think it was a developer or Metzen.(Marakanis 01:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC))

I never believed him to be dead at WC3:TFT. He was still moving and struggling after Arthas struck him and left him to die. Considering Arthas didn't kill Vash or Kael, it is completely logical that he survived. Now, the 25 man raid to kill Illidan is a different story. Sagares gave Illidan powers because he believed Illidan would help him. But Illidan planned to Punk the Demons cus he loved Tyrande and wouldn't have anyone touch her --Invin Dranoel 06:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually Vash and Kael could have made their own faction if Illidan died so it's not so logical and anyway i DID hear some developers (or Metzen) say he was declared alive only because he was popular ,originally they planed for him to stay dead.And anyway you never know maybe blizz will pull it again and say the Naaru gave him another chance or something and BTW what has the part with Sargeras giving Ilidan powers have to do with it?(Marakanis)


 * Can we try and stick to article related discussion? This isn't supposed to be a forum. 17:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

This is madness

 * Moved to Sparta (Talk:Illidan Stormrage/Analysis).

RPG-classes
So now he is a Rogue aswell? Seriously, why are you adding the RPG-classes into the Wiki? They are appearantly very wrong. --Odolwa 14:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Because they are his classes in the RPG (and are marked as such)? No person can be pinned down to a single "type", just like in real life. 15:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The demon hunters are known for their agility, so rogue seems like a good core class for them.--Austin P 03:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya demon hunters tend to come out of the rogue class in the RPG. In game some seem to share alot of the rogue abilities.Baggins 03:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand rogue, demon hunter, and sorcerer, but how is he a mage and fighter now? Mr.X8 00:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Fighters are similar to warriors and he was classed as a fighter in the original Warcraft RPG, but classed as a warrior in the new World of Warcraft RPG. He was classed as a sorcerer in Warcraft RPG, however as the mage class is similar he was classed as one in the World of Warcraft RPG. Its not that difficult to understand.Baggins 19:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

He should have demon hunter class, when MoM came out that class was not existed yet.Master3 10:53, Dec 22 2007


 * Rogue: Come on. Dual Wielding, not to mention a fighting style very similar to rogues? Of course he is. Mage: Illidan is addicted to magic. He probably uses it to make himself breakfast. How could he NOT be a mage? Fighter: Probably one of the most skilled at one-on-one combat in the world, as demonstrated by his duel with Arthas. Again, how could he NOT be a fighter?


 * Conclusion: Illidan is the druid of the RPG characters, the virtual jack-of-all-trades. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 20:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ...but incapable of healing himself.  ;D  --Super Bhaal 23:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Grrr, all this usless ranting about what class he is, if you want to analyis(sp) what he is down to a -class- he is whom he is, Illidan! Its like trying to pin down Arthas(sp), sure hes a DK, but hes also consumed the power of the lich king, so does that make him a "Lich-Doom Knight of death?" Or are we just going to say: Paladin, Lich, Warrior, Necromancer, Etc-etc... I wouldn't. Now, if we really want to nut out whom he is, it goes like this:
 * Firstly he is a sorceror(sp), because that's what "LORE" Said he was, not a mage, not a warlock, not a -anything- else. As we all know, he is proficiant at word play, or more of "glave play" for humors sake. So, we have a powerful caster class that can fight at melee range. Now, I remember something telling me that he was the first demon hunter (Correct me if I'm wrong) so, in his earlyer stages hes basically just set the table for any other demon hunter- Powerful magiocs and melee fighting skills.
 * BUT, now hes consumed demonic power from artifacts, id doesn't mean he is a warlock, because last I checked warlocks were directly connected to demons. Illidan can't be his own demon which leaves him at square one: A powerful sorceror(sp) that can melee like a god. So, what do we want to call him, I'm happy for his class to Demon Hunter or to the extent as some thing new :O How about we call him a 'Master' Because there is no -one- person alike him, just like Arthas(sp)... Double_Fury


 * Point of note, lore also calls him "mage". Mage is interchanged with sorcerer quite a bit in books, as is wizard. In anycase he's listed with all the classes he has because that is what the RPG gives him. The RPG gives him those those classes because it allows him to use particular abilities. Shadowmeld for example is partially merged into rogue list, though more importantly are many of his given "feats", and abilities like "sneak attack", "trap finding", "trap sense". As it turns out Dark Metamorphasis the demonhunter is a Warlock ability too, even in the MMO. Baggins (talk) 16:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh... Rogue is the perfect class for him[AT THE VERY LEAST, PERSONALITY-WISE. You can't deny that.]. Rogues are backstabbing, vengeful, angry beings. They are also very aggressive, but like to avoid combat, if it serves them virtually no purpose other than loot and the joy of killing[which is not much for a Rogue, unless it's, ya know, about revenge]. We know when to stfu. We know when we can't win. We know we WILL be capable of getting revenge on everyone who REALLY matters in the end. User talk:Yakeshi P.S. Double_Fury... PLEASE learn how to spell...


 * Personality means nothing when it comes to their class. 21:15, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Just a theory
Wasn't it Guldan's idea for Illiden to get the Eye Of Sargares? Since Illiden did consume his skull and that was the last thing Guldan was looking for (Either that or a drinking fountain of health on the isle of sargaras). Maybe the orc corrupted his mind in order for him to seek out the artifact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

What do you mean Lasty? Illidan learned of it through Gul'dan's skull, but I doubt he knew Illidan at all. What fountain of health are you talking about?-- 00:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

As I recall, Illidan needed the Eye of Sargeras to attack Icecrown. - Aladara 01:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What fountain of health are you talking about -unsigned comment by ???

The fountain of health im talking about is a normal fountain of health you find in Warcraft III. AND WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT GULDAN WAS LOOKING FOR THE EYE?? BESIDES BEING ON THE SAME ISLAND. For all we know he was having a bbq inside the tome before he was attacked by several creutres and the pitlorde that attacks Miev in the tomb of Sargares?(There are two pitlords in that level one you can kill but his out of the way the other is in the final cut scene)'' As I recall, Illidan needed the Eye of Sargeras to attack Icecrown'' He did need the Eye to attack Icecrown. Maybe Manaroth told him to get the eye to kill Nezuel for refusing the pact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

To correct some things:

It's "theory", not "theary" It's "Gul'dan", not "Guldan" It's "Illidan", not "Illiden" It's "Sargeras", not "Sargeres" It's "Maiev", not "Miev" It's "Mannoroth", not "Manaroth" It's "Ner'zhul", not "Nezuel"

What in the world are you doing on a lore-discussion when you can't even spell a single character-name? If you can't even put enough effort into spelling names correctly, I see no reason for us to take anything of what you wrote seriously. And sign your posts! --Odolwa 11:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I do not recall two Pit Lords in the Tomb of Sargeras level in War3. I also have no idea how Mannoroth could have ordered Illidan to steal the Eye when Mannoroth was dead at this point... Additionally, it is explained in... well somewhere... that Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'dan, granting him Gul'Dan's memories. When Kil'Jaeden ordered Illidan to destroy the Frozen Throne, Illidan decided on his own that the Eye would be an ideal artifact to use for the destruction of Ner'Zhul's icy fortress. ~Peregrine - Master Chief FTW! 19:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * He is correct in saying that there were two pit lords in the level, and he properly placed them.--Austin P 00:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What in the world are you doing on a lore-discussion when you can't even spell a single character-name?

What is with you and spelling?? ATLEAST YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY (evan though they it might be full of bull shit) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Enough. No personal attacks please Odolwa and The last Alterac, and stay on topic. In addition, again, please sign your posts. 02:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * User:The last Alterac: during the flashbacks in the Tomb, it becomes clear that Gul'dan was looking for the Eye, specifically, if that was the original question in all this. Peregrine: there were creatures on that map that used Pit Lord models, but I think they were called overlords or something. Odolwa: please leave insulting the other users to the dry and reedy academic admins (ie, me). -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What I wrote was more like constructive criticism than insult, but I promise it won't happen again. To return to the topic: Why would Mannoroth order Illidan to steal the Eye of Sargeras? I don't see how that can make sense. As have been said before, Mannoroth was dead at the moment. Illidan used Gul'dans memories of the place, but it was his own decision. At the same time, I'm sure Gul'dan would had been happy about Ner'zhul being destroyed. Those two weren't exactly best friends towards the end. --Odolwa 15:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe the overlords were the doomlord models, and the pit lord was just listed as pit lord.--Austin P 02:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

''' Why would Mannoroth order Illidan to steal the Eye of Sargeras? I don't see how that can make sense. As have been said before, Mannoroth was dead at the moment. Illidan used Gul'dans memories of the place, but it was his own decision. At the same time, I'm sure Gul'dan would had been happy about Ner'zhul being destroyed. Those two weren't exactly best friends towards the end'''

Eh hem. I said Manoroth orderd Guldan to steal the eye.--The last Alterac 06:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No one ordered Gul'dan to do anything, he was after power for himself. Even if someone did, it would have been Kil'jaeden, not Mannoroth.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * And by this point in the Horde's history, Kil'Jaeden had abandoned them. Sargeras/Medivh brought them into the world, but when Medivh was killed, the last of the Horde's benefactors were gone, leaving them alone. Believe me, after the opening of the dark portal, the orcs were acting independantly - on the orders of the shadow council, yes, but without direction from any demons or powers of any kind. ~Peregrine - Master Chief FTW! 21:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Illidan Stormrage-still good?
So...does this mean he still has(had,hes dead now)good?The quote:"Whatever I may be - whatever I may become in this world - know that I will always look out for you, Tyrande." Does that show anything? Or was that in the War of the Ancients? 17:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * He was mad, not really "evil". 17:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Illidan has always been good. He is just misunderstood.--Odolwa 22:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Everything Illidan has ever done, was for Tyrande. --Invin Dranoel 00:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest you read the entire article on Illidan. Its a tantalizing, intriguing, sad story, really. In short, he was never truly "evil" - just driven mad by a combination of his proximity to demons (and Sargeras) during the War of the Ancients and Tyrande rejecting him in favor of his brother, who did not even know she loved him. There would also be, presumeably, some sort of mental consequence due to his yet-to-be-determined affiliation with the Old Gods. The quote where he says he will always look out for Tyrande comes from the War3 TFT campaign, after he and Malfurion (and, consequently, the Night Elves and Naga) join forces to search for Tyrande, who is being attacked by the scourge. ~Peregrine - Master Chief FTW! 02:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Not a forum, people. But Peregrine's got the right of it. Just because you are capable of love doesn't mean you're good, nor does hatred make one evil.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:15, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

illidan is just like Darth vader in star wars, he's misunderstood, the bigest problem with him is his adiction for power, but he can forget even that becouse of Tyrande, as we can see in WC3


 * Sign please! And Ragestorm summed up what I was trying to say quite nicely, thank you :) ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 03:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'll never buy into this rubbish about Illidan being good or misunderstood. He never has been either, I think. How many chances did he have to redeem himself? Apart from saving Tyrande (and even then, Malfurion basically said "don't come back or i'll kick your ass) he has done everything for his own personal gain, or to protect himself. And added to this is the fact that he's a cliche of a character, but people just totally love him because he's "badass".

I'll stop now, because Rage will come down in a second telling me this isn't a forum (and I apologize in advance, my friend :) ) but I just wanted to share my opinion. Warchiefthrall 00:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Illidan has quite often done the right thing for the wrong reasons. From saving Ashenvale by consuming the Skull of Gul'dan, to attempting to destroy the Lich King because Kil'jaeden told him to, Illidan's motivations have almost always been selfish ones.  While he would occasionally do things that were for the good of others, the underlying motivations would still be personal gain, with any communal good being merely a happy side effect.  Even when acting to help Tyrande, he's still hoping, somewhere deep down, that she'll dump Malfurion and shack up with him instead.  While he certainly shouldn't be classified as evil, "good" and "misunderstood" aren't accurate either.  If this were D&D, I'd peg Illidan's alignment squarely in Chaotic Neutral. -- Dark T Zeratul 03:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

If anyone cares he was classified as demonic, and neutral evil after TFT in the RPG, see alignment for explanation of neutral evil. "A neutral evil character serves only herself. She follows no law but also has no drive toward chaos. She kills or steals as she sees fit to get what she wants." Its basically everything Wartchiefthrall said above.Baggins 03:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Illidan's alignment is crazy nutso end of story. Zarnks 03:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "Crazy nutso" isn't in the RPG and wouldn't qualify as an alignment anyway. Thanks for your opinion though. Garm

OBJECTION!

Manfred vonKarma: Oh dear. Illidan's alignment is bluntly obvious as Chaotic Good. Many of his intentions seem to be motivated either by personal gain or a Tyrande-style conscience telling him what's right. He is mostly insane, as implied by dialogue in the game. This isn't just some measly forum where any type of speculation, no matter how ridiculous it is, is acceptable. We require facts, people. Hard, cold, decisive facts. Garm 00:25, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Chaotic good? You've gotta be kidding. Illidan was a batshit insane evil tyrant who destroyed anyone who got in his way cared only about two things: himself and Tyrande. And don't think that falling for the heroine makes you automatically good (see Ming the Merciless). Also, Baggins has provided the only hard facts yet.
 * Edit: Either way, the DoD alignment system is not in the least bit indicative of reality and therefore is not really adequate for character profiling. Even if we switch "reality" for "15ft bat winged sorcerer". -- 10:22, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * OBJECTION!


 * Manfred vonKarma: The evidence you just provided would point out either Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral. He is downtrodden and seen as an anti-hero, likely leading him to Chaotic Neutral. However, you are indeed correct about not being able to adequately profile characters with such an inconsitent system. Garm 21:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget that that quote came before he got beaten by Arthas. That event defiantly sent him in total madness. --N&#39;Nanz 21:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

According to D&D rules, intentions don't matter. Actions do. The problem with translating D&D rules to anything else is that the franchise has set rules of good and evil, good is always good, evil is always evil. Moral ambiguity is a large part of Warcraft, and while definite good and evil may exist, we've yet to be provided with a list of rules.

Another thing to consider is that in D&D, a person must dedicate themselves to these ideals to be considered part of an alignment. Being a nice person doesn't make you Good, you must actively do good acts. The descriptions I've seen of chaotic good describe it as a person who works for the betterment of people, but is willing to go against society's laws if they are corrupt, and greatly values personal freedom. To say that being out for himself makes Illidan "chaotic good" is inaccurate.--Austin P (talk) 11:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Illidan: Felsworn?
I got to thinkin' and reading and realised something. Is it me or is Illidan's half-demonic state more remeniscent to a Fel-Sworn than it is to that of a Demon Hunter in either their metamorphosised state or the change they supposedly undergo over time?

While he does retain the same soul unlike most Felsworn, Illidan's transformation is much different in that his appearance is half-demonic, half-humanoid. Also, his wings work, unlike the Demon Hunters who supposedly posess non-functional wings. The rest of the evidence to support this theory is his change was brought on by the Skull of Gul'Dan; which was channelling a LOT of fel energy. This adds to the theory because Warlocks and those who use Fel magics are likely to become Fel-Sworn.

With that in mind, wouldn't Illidan's demonic form be more attributed to Fel-Sworn than the Demon Hunters? Or would it be potentially possible for a Demon Hunter to become simular to him?


 * I was eventually going to point this out, but you got me.  D:  But I agree that he's probably at least partially Fel-Sworn, due to his increased height  ( but if everyone were to go by my logic that'd mean Zul'jin was too )  and functional wings.  --Super Bhaal 08:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've mentioned this before, but I wouldn't say he's like a "fel-sworn" exactly. Even Fel-Sworn wings are generally relatively useless (although they can grow in effectiveness over time). Of course not all fel sworn even have wings. Most importantly Fel-sworn are servents of the burning legion, and are slaves to a demonic will. Illidan being "enslaved" is questionable. He seems to have his own free will, and its also stated that he is an independent entity infact; "Not all demons are part of the Legion, as Illidan Stormrage can attest..."-Warcraft Encyclopedia. Which definitely seems to go contrary to what a "fel-sworn" is. To be honest Illidan has never really sworn himself to anyone, even when Kil'Jaeden had some control over him.--Baggins 03:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There is also the distinct possibility that he uses magic to fly. Szili 19:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's nearly impossible to classify Illidan - he is completely unique. Don't even try, you'll just confuse anybody who reads this :) ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 03:48, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * He is a demon hunter, the Skull of Gul'Dan sped up his process of gaining demonic traits like all demon hunters gain. He is not a fel-sworn, he is not a Forlarren (half night elf half demon) he is a night elf demon hunter. Novice451 14:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

About those eyes
I seem to recall something in "Sundering" about how Illidan's eyes served not only Illidan but Sargeras as well. The implications to this are interresting. Could Sargeras see everything that Illidan could see? Saregeras's words would indicate as much, although his actions (or lack thereof) might cast that in doubt. (Meneldir 19:49, 9 January 2008 (EST))

Speculation on Illidan's living status needs to cease
OBJECTION!

Franziska vonKarma: We have no real source that Illidan is dead or alive. In fact, an interview already stated that "you don't so much 'kill' Illidan as you do get in his way." It isn't out of date as we do not have any new/other sources stating Illidan's status. Raid bosses don't normally die. In the Burning Crusade manual, they don't even mention the infamous Hogger. Additionally, the Burning Crusade timeline skips the instance dungeons before Blackrock Spire. No Deadmines. No Gnomeregan. No Uldaman. No Mauradon. No Scarlet Monastery either. It doesn't even mention whether or not Lady Prestor was "discovered" as Onyxia. It doesn't mention whether or not these threats got downed at all. Therefore, stop speculating whether Illidan is dead or alive. He is likelier alive, seeing as how other raid bosses managed to survive. That is only my opinion, though, and whatever Blizzard does is what is done. We all know the saying "Stupid is as stupid does", right, Illidan fans? And for those who believe he is dead, do you have any substantial evidence to prove it? I. Don't. Think. So.

Second objection on speculation/lack of detail. I used Miles Edgeworth on the first one, and Franziska vonKarma is doing this one.Garm 20:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Alphonse "Tits" McGee: Whilst I'm of the opinion that they didn't create a dramatic death scene for nothing, I agree. This topic has been well and truly covered: until Blizzard says they're dead, they're only "killable". -- 11:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

He will return. A powerful being such as Illidan can't be killed off that easily.--Odolwa 13:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I like a good speculation as much as anybody, but this REALLY has to stop! This is not the place to discuss whether or not he as alive. Please, keep it to the WoW Forums! ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine, Acting on Behalf of Ragestorm as "NOT-A-FORUM" Policer 15:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is another thing to support Illiden being alive. If Illiden is classified as dead then shouldn't Thrall, Cairne or any other faction leader can die in game. So why is it that just becuase some one tells you to kill Illiden he is dead, while if you kill ANY faction leader of the Allience or Horde out of your own free will THEY ARE STILL COUNTED AS ALIVE--The last Alterac 06:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * For the 4,628 time, faction leaders are a completely different situation because PvP raids are NOT part of lore, while the raids against character such as Illidan ARE.. This stops NOW. Illidan's status is listed as "Killable," as all such characters are, while all faction leaders are "Alive". Perhaps he is still alive, I don't know, and I don't care, and quite frankly it doesn't really matter at this point. Any future discussions as to his status will be considered non-editorial, and, in a change to my previous policy, will be removed. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

This reminds me, we should have talkheader style boxes at the top of certain discussion articles so that the same questions don't need to be answered repeatedly. 14:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

'Dog Johnson' Why are we making up names then bolding them before our comments?  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  19:54, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Funky O'Donnell: I think Garm started it off to lighten up the conversation... ^_^ -- 20:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Rogerston Findlesworth: Hai guyz cen i play to? ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 03:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Chicago Bill The more the merrier I guess :)  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  15:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Race change
Should we change Illidan from NE/Demon hybrid to possibly half-night elf? I mean even Kael in Magister's Terrace called him that, and originally a half-NE could mean NE and something non human.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  19:11, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In general, the term half-night elf implies a night elf/human offspring. It also implies that it was by birth, rather than Illidan's special, unique circumstances. -- Dark T Zeratul 19:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Before the merge, Half-Night Elf was NE/human, Half-Kaldorei was NE/something else.  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  22:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

You know as Illidan is a half demon. Aren't we only destroying his body as demons can't simply being killed? Zarnks 06:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Where's that written? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It's written in the Ogri'la-quest called "Banish the Demons". http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11026 --Odolwa 20:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Furion Stormrage is a night elf. His brother Illidan Stormrage is ALSO a night elf. Those demonic traits are from being a demon hunter. Get your facts straight. Novice451 14:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Illidan's heart
Now that Illidan is dead does anybody else think that the Legion will take his heart? Sargeras told Mannoroth to give him his heart if he proved a traitor.

User:LangstonTheCoward


 * Non-editorial discussion. But if we're on the topic, I'm not sure that was meant literally, or that the command wound carry after 10,000 years and the deaths of both the giver and the reciever of the order. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think, too, that the intent behind the command was to warn Illidan of the consequences of betrayal (i.e. death). I don't think his heart in and of itself holds any interest to the Legion, especially since Illidan is already dead. -- Dark T Zeratul 05:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ragestorm, so who says Sargeras is dead? :S ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 20:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't open that can of worms. He's dead enough in that it's Kil'jaeden who usually deals with Illidan, etc. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it within the scope of this particular discussion.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr)
 * Awh, but cans of worms are so FASCINATING. Who knows what might be inside once you get them all out of the way? ;) ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 04:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Back on the initial question, and on another question, since Maive killed Illidan, and the only other reason she has to live is to kill Tyrande, and Malfurion, she would take his heart to present to Kiljaeden?

Another question I have is why do the people on Outland who are completely inlove with Arcane Magic call Illidan the Betrayer? I know he was a betrayer in the old version, but in the new version he only goes over to the Legion to sabotage it from within, and he only becomes labelled a betrayer for creating another Well of Eternity, then showing no remorse or regret for doing it, so it seems somewhat odd. --User:LangstonTheCoward


 * 1. Maiev is in no way affiliated with the Legion, so no, I doubt she'd be tempted.
 * 2. I don't quite see what you're getting at. Can you restate the question? -- 15:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm just getting at the way the Draenei and Broken all call Illidan the Betrayer, and hate him for his actions during the War of the Ancients. However in the War of the Ancients Trilogy Illidan is a welcomed site amongst the Night Elves untill he created his second Well of Eternity.

So why do the Draenei call him the Betrayer instead of something like The Enslaver, or The Maniac, since they use Arcane Magic I don't see why they would think Illidan did the wrong thing.

User:LangstonTheCoward


 * First off, please ask lore questions for your personal clarification on the Warcraft Pump or directly to a lore-savvy user. Discussion pages are for discussing editorial changed for the article itself.
 * To answer your question, I believe that the Draenei call him the Betrayer because they are allied of the Night Elves, who refer to him as such, while the Broken were betrayed by him: he promised to free them completely from the Legion and the fel orcs and help them reclaim what they lost, then he goes off and follows Kil'jaeden's command and Outland is in an even worse state. Same title, different reason. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree - thought I hate to hear anything against my favorite character, I have to admit there were a lot of betrayals on his part, whether he saw them as such or not. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 23:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Illidans scar
When arthas cut Illidan with frostmourne illidan should have got a visible scar. But in WoW no scar is seen on his chest.LKHighlord 9:14, 26 march 2008 (UTC)

Magic can heal without leaving traces. --Mesethusela (talk) 22:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Malfurion's Reaction to Illidan
In one section, the wiki notes that Illidan is received well by his brother (in the sense that Malfurion wants to forgive/lighten the punishments the Kaldorei wish to instill upon him after the War of the Ancients) 10,000 years prior to Tyrande's mission to rescue him, and that he is much less forgiving during the rescue.

One reason for this is that 10,000 years is a long time to brood on a subject, particularly if you spend much of that time lost in the Emerald Dream, finding perfection in nature and solitude. Also, these forgivings come after the battle is over, but before Illidan drops the vials into the lake. At the end of "The Sundering", Malfurion's feelings are not revealed (and could be different regarding Illidan), and the perspective shifts off of the Night Elves. Yasuhiko (talk) 00:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Master of the Black Temple
In the conversation after downing Illidan, Akama says "The Light will fill these chambers once again". Could we suspect after these words, that Akama became new Master of the Black Temple? --Shargas the Naga (blearrgglaerrgall) 20:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably not really a master, since the Temple would become a temple of Light again, which means Naaru would be the ones that would be the true masters of the Temple. In WoW however, Black Temple will stay as it is. Bajo (talk) 08:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Gameplay-wise, Black Temple will always be Black. Lore-wise, however, I think we can assume that Akama, along with the Draenei/Broken and the Naaru, began to work on making the temple a "place of light, and worship" once again. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 04:01, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Somewhere FAR FAR down the line, Blizz may use their little phasing protocol to make the Black Temple appear as the Ata'mal Temple again, to those who've killed Illidan. They'd have to keep the instance gate around though, in case BT-winners wanted to go back for nostalgia's sake. NYET! (talk) 16:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Attack on Shattrath
I was discussing Illidan's forces' attack on Shattrath with my guildies and someone suggested that it was Kael'thas who wanted to attack Shattrath because he wanted to harness A'dal's power for his own benefit. This would be understandable seeing as M'uru was found in Silvermoon being harnessed by the Blood Elves there. Would this be a fair analysis of his attack? Rikshaw (talk) 23:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Only if the attack on Shattrath followed the takeover on Tempest Keep, and then only if Kael had been informed of the naaru's usefulness- if there was no evidence that M'uru could be useful, he wouldn't have bothered, Illidan is the insane one.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, it is doubtful that Kael would be able to defeat A'dal or even weaken him so that the naaru could be captured. Bajo (talk) 08:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought the only direct attack on Shattrath was the one where the Scryers defected. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Meeting with kil'jaeden
when illidan meets kil'jaeden it's after he get banished from the forests by Malfurion right? But during the meeting illidan is just a normal nightelf. He has no horns or wigns like he had before the meeting. Thats very strange.LKHighlord 10:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We have discussed this quite alot during the years, and so far, no one has come to a real conclusion. It could just be a grave mistake by Blizzard.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 09:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That, or his demonic physicalities were from Sargeras, not the Skull. But yeah, this has been discussed a great deal. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 03:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Though i don't have an in-lore explanation for it, i kinda always figured Illidan's Demon Hunter-model was used as to not make Kil'jaeden look less threatening due to the winged, horned, hooved, warglaive-wielding awesomeness of Illidan's Demonic Demon Hunter-model. --Quetzatoul (talk) 18:59, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Survival at Icecrown
"Note that the in-game animation between Illidan and Arthas was originally planned to be a video cinematic. Time constraints, however, forced the scene to be done inside the game. The developers have said that their greatest regret about this change is that many assumed Illidan died, when the video would have revealed that Illidan survived to watch Arthas's transformation." - Could someone find a source for this statement? //SamuelHG (talk) 17:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Emerald Dream
Do you think that we may see him in Emerald Dream? i mean he had druid training. thought hes body was twisted by skull of gul´dan, hes mind may be pure (though we went insane...). It would, infact be pritty cool if we would be quest giver/NPC helping to fight nightmare and find his brother.Noobi666 (talk) 11:01, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Forlarren
Since Illidan is a night elf/demon, technically wouldn't he be a Forlarren albeit not born as one? Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 03:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * For one thing, the explanation for a forlarren suggests it is something one is born into- until Illidan, satyrs were the only occurence of corrupted night elves after birth. For another, I would prefer not to refer to him as such- I have never seen the term before this, and certainly not in reference to Illidan. The Warcraft encyclopedia is also explicit in its classification as a unique type of demon. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 03:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well out of all the terms I have seen it seems to fit the closest. Night elf/Demon seems long. Okay, I was just thinking he might fit into the Forlarren description, something similiar at least, although "changed" not "born" as one. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Either leave it as "night elf/demon hybrid" based on Maiev's comment or make it "demon (former night elf)" based on the Warcraft Encyclopedia. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should change it to Uncategorized? Well I was reading the Burning Crusade Strategy Guide and it keeps mentioning Illidan as a demon. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:09, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Further evidence, I think, for Ragestorm's "Demon (former night elf)" classification. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "blind, half-night elf mongrel"... that's what Kael'thas calls him. I would leave the hybrid, from WoW lore, but did not yet read the encyclopedia entry and Strategy Guide. Demon, formerly night elf, sounds o.k. too. Forlarren doesn't sound like it since he changed his nature by his own actions, and is not a hybrid by birth. --Hurax (talk) 13:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Illidan is not a Forlarren (half night elf half demon) if he was then Furion Stormrage would be one, which he isn't. Novice451 14:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Illidan's growth spurt
I'm curious about this matter because it seems rather bizarre that he starts out as not being that much bigger than Arthas as of FT, but subsequently he increases to the size of demons such as Krasus and possibly Archimonde. So I just want to know how on earth he managed to undergo such a dramatic increase in size, or what the speculation upon it would be, because it seems rather silly. Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 20:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * For dramatic effect. Seriously. Most humanoid bosses in-game are far bigger than they should be, partly for dramatic effect and partly so they don't get lost in a crowd of twenty-five people of the same size. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, remember that powerful demons (at least eredar) can change their size. Oh, and I suppose you mean Kil'jaeden and not Krasus? [[Image:INV Misc Orb 04.png|20px]] Xavius, the Satyr Lord  20:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, I just thought it seemed a bit odd. And I meant the Dreadlord boss, but got his name confused with Krasus. Suddenly realised Krasus was one of the good guys. But not Kil'jaeden, although it is probably about that size that Illidan grew to.

He's dead, according to the lore
Since he's dead according to the lore, shouldn't the article be changed to past form, and his death should be added?
 * Do you have a direct source? Also, sign your posts please. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 10:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * While I think he is dead, we need a source for those people who just can't accept it. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's my source from the booklet of Wrath of the Lich King. I will quote the related part: "The emboldened fighters then stormed the gates of the Black Temple and confronted Illidan himself. They waged a fierce and desperate battle and ultimately killed the Betrayer, wrestling Outland from his grip.". I guess this is enough proof that he is dead. - User: Neltharion 01:57, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, if the information is true, I stand correct. Thank you blizz for crediting "nerf001" as Illidan's killer... --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 00:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Good enough citation for me. Edit in fitting moderation. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Dead according to Lore? Find me where it says this. Just because you can run in with 40 people (or whatever the size of the raid) game mechanically doesn't mean it could actually happen. Yeah that many people taking breaks and such, they would be rended within the first 10 minutes at most. Novice451 14:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Novice451 at least read the comments. Up there it's said that in the Wrath of the Lick King manual is said that Illidan is dead.

I cannot deny what was said in WotLK manual. However it have to be noted that Illidan is a demon hybrid and from his form he is closest to natrezim - while I have no evidence of him possesing their ability to survive physical death this isn't impossible (you can never be sure with demons). Therefore I would like to ask changing his status from simply 'deceased' to 'presumed deceased'. That way we won't deny possibilities.


 * Blizzard has said he is dead and he will remain dead until stated otherwise. Until then, nothing realted to Illidan surviving should be in the article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 22:55, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Illidan's pants
I think it should be noted that Illidan wore the same pair of pants for over 10,000 years from the War of the Ancients to the time of his death. Lckyluke372 (talk) 20:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure the wardens at least gave him a change of clothes, because wearing the same pair of pants for ten thousand years would be pretty nasty. That being said, even if that were the case, I don't think this would make a worthy addition to the article. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They might have been magic pants... --Super Bhaal (talk) 21:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at the picture of him with Malfurion and Tyrande from the WoTA trilogy and the pictures from the Burning Crusade. Its the same pair of pants, the ones Ravencrest gave him.  And I don't really think it should go into the article, I just noticed that and thought it was hilarious. Lckyluke372 (talk) 21:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? You can't see his pants on the front cover, they're hidden by the authors name.

I wouldn't say it's logical it's the same pants through the entire thing, seriously, I wouldn't wear the same pants for 10,000 years, maybe Illidan would, but not I. Ragestorm, before you do it, sorry, I know it's not a forum. --Meltheon (talk) 18:18, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was actually going to comment on the fact that a discussion that's almost two years old is being revived, but it looks like you have the situation in hand 8-)-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:32, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Frostmourne wound and Scourge
The Frostmourne gives use and take the soul of any struck by it. Illidan was clearly hit by it while fighting Arthas. Is it at all possible his soul is contained within Frostmourne and may come into play as we get closer to Arthas? (Ibage (talk) 04:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)) (04:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC))


 * There is no sign that any of the souls taken by Frostmourne can actually do anything. In fact, we don't know about the process apart from the fact that it steals souls. It might not work on demons at all (demons might not even have souls to take), or it might not have worked on Illidan in particular. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't Frostmourne have to kill people in order to take their souls? --Super Bhaal (talk) 00:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I'm pretty sure the context was it steals its wielder's soul. Don't think it affects those its used against other than to steal life energy. Maybe if it kills you that's another thing altogether.Baggins (talk) 00:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked the MoM description. This is what the "gameplay" part said, paraphrased by me to sound like lore: Frostmourne corrupts its wielder's soul over time.  After corrupting its wielder, it turns it into undead.  After turning its wielder undead, it absorbs its soul.  It didn't say anything about it eating the souls of those it killed, but I remember a lot of things said that it  (or runeblades in general)  did do that, so Illidan got lucky.  --Super Bhaal (talk) 04:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If it doesn't steal the souls of those it kills, what was it that happened to Saurfang the Younger at Angrathar? 08:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Good question! Looks like Illidan really did get lucky after all.  This and the above paraphrasing are all I really have to contribute to this conversation - everything else I want to say is garbage better left for forums.  Bye for now!  --Super Bhaal (talk) 12:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The wielder of Frostmourne must willingly want to take the soul. Novice451 14:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Possible resurrection?
Since Illidan has worked for the Burning Legion in the past, and was granted his magical sight and empowering tattoos by Sargeras himself; as well as the fact that Sargeras was able to recreate Xavius' destroyed self; would it be possible that Sargeras would revive Illidan, given that he did truly die and Blizz isn't gonna whip out some last minute survival like Kael'thas, and use him later on in a second, future Burning Legion based expansion? Plus Malfurion hinted at the two meeting again, and I wouldn't doubt that he's prophetic or that Blizz forgot that line entirely. And considering Maiev claimed to be nothing without being able to hunt Illidan down any longer, I don't see Blizz ending her so soon for being such an impacting, self righteous snot that WoW is so full of. So is it likely Illidan may be brought back into play? Or is it possible Maiev has fallen in love with Illidan sometime within the last ten millennia, between being an important advisor to Kur'talos during the war where they could've crossed paths, or in the time she made sure he was captive? And if that's true, could she possibly have held back at the Black Temple and he just barely survived? Mykael Mourningsun

I have a hard time believing that. After all he caused the death's of many of her troops and her best friend. Allthough i do find the idea of a female warden having 'very intimate' visits with her captive, Maeiv doesn't strike me as the type. Now your theory about sargeras is intresting indeed since we all know Kil'jeaden did the same with Keal'thas. Gorvar

Illidan and Gul'dan -- fusion?
I was wondering, when Illidan "consumed" the Skull of Gul'dan, did he fuse with Gul'dan's essence like the Lich King and Arthas did? Or was it just like a big power boost and some memories? I read the article, but it didn't really seem clear to me. Maybe I'm just being dense, I don't know. --Scarletsorcerer (talk) 01:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No, they didn't fuse. For what WC3 suggest is that, when Illidan absorbed the Skull of Gul'dan, he gained memories from the Tomb of Sargeras, but his mind was left intact, so you could say that he just gained power and memories. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 05:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Found race?
I was looking around and forgot about this. A good race or partial race for him? In Warcraft III, he was a night elf demon hunter that had the ability to turn into a demonhunter. As the game progressed, he seemed to become more like a demonhunter instead of it just being an ability he could use and he lost his night elf side. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 06:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That "race" is really just "what demon hunters turn into." It was called "demonhunter" because (big surprise) that's what the model name was. Illidan's been pretty much confirmed to be half-night elf, half-demon (generic) and not any specific demonic race in particular. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 11:10, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The article says it is a race pretty much though. "Demonhunters" are demons. Illidan was a Demon Hunter and could turn into a demonhunter type of demon. Going through Warcraft III, it looked like he was turning more and more into a mix of night elf and demonhunter versus it just being a spell he could use. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the way it is now is not correct. Right now as his race you have "creature type / race". That is like saying Anduin Wrynn is a "Humanoid / Human" as his race or that Magtheridon's race is "Demon / Pit Lord". Illidan is a "demon" as in the type of creature. His race though is not "demon" as that is not a race except in Manual of Monster Appendix III which has been declared non-canon on WoWWiki. To me, "demonhunter" made sense. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I put the world "unique" to specifiy that he is a unique type of demon, not that he is a creature type. What I mean is that he isn't a Pit Lord nor a Nathrezim but an unnamed type of demon combined with a night elf. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. So no one besides me thinks that the "unique" demon type could be "demonhunter"? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 04:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe he could be but that is just an assumption, it would be speculation. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He consumed the DEMONIC energies of the skull, then he gets the orb of Kil'jeaden, he becomes a Demonic figure after he gets the orb meaning that Kil'jeaden might be the one who turned him into a half demon, so theres a big chance that Kil'jeaden fused him with an another demon, there are types like Tothrezim that still aren't seen on WOW--JVS (talk) 14:28, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

The info-square at the right on Illidan's page...
is totally messed up at the moment - at least for me? How long has it been like this? Merala (Talk) 23:48, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks fine to me. What does it look like to you? And have you tried clearing your cache? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It says < /ref > (but without the spaces) all over the place. Strange, I shouldn't have to clear my cache, I just got this computer and it's new?Merala (Talk) 14:24, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * What browser are you using?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:39, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Firefox =P Merala (Talk) 22:06, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which version of Firefox? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:54, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

The latest available, but nevermind now, today everything looks good. Somehow! Merala (Talk) 16:05, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Funny note about what Illidan means in Tolkien's Elvish
It just hit me that I had no idea what Illidan meant, either in Darnassian or whatever. And was his name just a composing of random letters just to sound good? Well, I just had to try and find if there was a meaning behind it and this is what I "found out": (Quenya and Sindarin are the two elven languages made up by Tolkien) That Illidan has been called a betrayer, most of us know, and the truth is more or less: Everyone is against Illidan. All against Illidan...
 * "Illi" means in the language Quenya "all".
 * "Dan" means in Sindarin "against"

I mostly doubt this was intended but I think it's a funny coincidence.Merala (Talk) 05:31, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't put it past them. --Super Bhaal (talk) 19:23, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Huh? Past who? Merala (Talk) 01:20, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Blizzard. Look at all the pop culture references they sprinkle into their games. --Super Bhaal (talk) 01:54, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

This is not pop culture in my opinion though, you have to know someone who actually have studied Elvish. Though, I am a great Tolkien-fan and see stuff from Lord of the Rings everywhere, but I really need to stop myself before getting a shovel in the face from people that just get annoyed from my notifications. Though I thought it would be fun to tell other people what I discovered and now I get shovelled in the face that I shouldn't put it past Blizzard.Merala (Talk) 05:13, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Blizzard was familiar with Tolkien's constructed languages (along with Klingon and Esperanto, JRR's Elvish is a literal textbook example discussed in most college linguistics classes) and did it intentionally. It could be a coincidence, though. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:31, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Question
I have a question... Is he going to be used in the next expansion in any way?--JVS (talk) 20:03, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

He is seen in a flashback in Felwood that retells the WC3 mission "A Destiny of Flame and Sorrow".-- 20:18, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

TBC Voice actor
Hello! In this page is said that the voice actor of Illidan in the Burning Crusade was Liam O'Brien, and is confirmed also in the O'Brien's page. But in the page Jeff Bennett is said that he is the voice of Illidan in TBC. What is the correct one? --Forco (talk) 12:16, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Memorable quotes
Hi, I am from the Spanish Wowpedia and I want to know the sources (books, games, etc.) of Illidan's quotes. Please, I need them :) --Exor1204 (talk) 01:38, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Should we add Legacy?
since there are quests even after illdan death mention him should we add illdan "Legacy"? Forsakenlord (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC)