Talk:Rogue PvP guide

Dueling Guide
Ming has an excellent rogue dueling guide at http://www.roguespot.com/guides/mdg18.htm. I'm unsure if there's a copyright or stipulation on copying that data, but if not, then perhaps I'll replicate some of it here.

Wait a second - I thought this guide was about How to Kill a Rogue, not how a rogue kills everyone else. Every single section is how a rogue should kill a different class. The article is completely mistitled, can we get on this? Either fix the contents, or the title of the section. Chickibidi 13:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No. This article is about "How to kill a..." for Rogues. Not "How to kill a Rogue." The title is fine. Also. New topics go at the bottom. Pzychotix 14:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Mage
Garrot is the only good opener against a Mage, with its 3 second silence. The mage cannot blink away and now you can deal damage. My usual attack pattern is Garrot, BS, Kidney shot, they blink. Either sprint and CoS or vanish and just restart it. They should have little life and any poisons still on them, CoS means you wont have any trouble getting near them to get the kill.

Warrior
Tactics again warriors are totally wrong.

"You want to start off with a sap, then before he berserker rages out of it, Premeditate a Garrote" -> Stupid, because that will happen before you have recovered your energy back. You just have to wait 15 seconds for diminishing returns effect to wear off and sap again, this time without berserker rage (it's in a 30s cooldown, so 10-15s left until it's up again).

"Shiv him with Crippling Poison, 5-point Rupture, then run away as fast as you can."->there's no way you can run out of range before he intercepts if you do that

"If the warrior manages to intercept, Dismantle him. Keep him from critting you or applying any Bleed effects." -> During those 3 seconds you're stunned you'll get all kinds of bleed effects + hamstring before you can even look for your dismantle button. Also you should never dismantle face-to-face unless you have no choice because it can be parried or dodged.

"Gouge him - he will blow Berserker Rage to snap out of it or just let the Bleed tick to get out of it, but it will buy you precious seconds to get away to restealth." -> Precious seconds? Berserker rage is instant. Your DoTs tick every 3 seconds at best. Getting out of combat for restealth takes more than 5 seconds. If you manage to restealth at this point (bleeding, with hamstring, maybe even in shout range), he's probably so stupid he'll forget breathing anytime soon. Just wait and he'll die on his own.

I wouldn't dare to post any full tactics but in my opinion the best opener is sap, premeditation, garrote without breaking sap to buy 1 second, shadowstep + 4CP rupture and vanish. Then I'd repeat it this time dismantling from behind just after garrote and blowing evasion as soon as the disarm effect wears off.

I'm open to suggestions because I don't do any serious PvP, but current tactics are a joke.

Kyphosis (talk)

Not enough information on Warlocks I would say.
I dunno...anyone who reads this guide and engages my warlock based on the limited information provided here will find themselves dead.

Yes it is a given...at most it is an uphill battle against Rogues. But more information is needed...especially if I killed almost half the Rogues that come after me....they don't even use all their CC abilities.

First off, Warlocks can trinket out of Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot. Since trinkets don't set off the global cooldowns, they can follow up with other abilities that can keep you off their backs for at least a few seconds. These abilities include, but not limited to: Instant Howl of Terror, Shadowfury, Intercept (must be set up. usually in this case, a warlock is on the defensive), Death Coil.

Death Coil can be potentionally dangerous as they can then link an actual Fear spell off of you and then attempt to turn the tables on you. Death Coil will not set off Diminishing Returns for Fear and cannot be countered by abilities that would normally remove Fear such as Will of the Forsaken. It can be trinketed...just be sure to know if you're being hit by Death Coil or Fear to use the appropriate counter.

Be advised, if you use sprint and they fear you or Death Coil you...you will actually run even further away from a Warlock.

Paladins
Some of the information here on pallies seems contrary to my own experiences fighting as one, and fighting against them as a rogue. The article claims that the best tactic against retadins is to let them exhaust their mana supply, but this is actually the one spec I'd never approach this way. Retribution pallies will almost certainly have maxed Judgments of the Wise, which gives them a huge mana boost for every one of their judgment spells that connects, and for this reason they'll be judging the moment it's off cooldown. Since the CD is a short one (or even a very short one, depending on their talents), you can't count on wearing down their mana. They've even got divine plea if they need it, but they rarely do.

Conversely, mana is where Protection Pallies can falter. The article makes them out to be nearly unbeatable, but they actually DO have the weakness that retadins don't, unless they're a hybrid spec that's gone DEEP into ret for JotW. Divine Plea is their only reliable mana regen ability when facing a rogue, and it doesn't give them THAT much mana. Plus, it has a significant CD and it gives its mana back over time, fairly slowly. Prot pallies, when tanking, rely on their procs from Seal and Judgment of Wisdom to regain the majority of their mana, or on a talent (whose name escapes me) that awards a percentage of heals done to them as mana. If the former is working for them, you're letting yourself get hit far too much, and if the latter is in play, they have a healer and you probably shouldn't be attacking the tank anyway. I often find myself praying that prot pallies will open with consecration, because it blows a huge chunk of their mana right off the bat, and does relatively little damage unless you sit in it. The loss of a stealth is annoying, of course, but I'll pay that price for a fifth or more of the pally's mana.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the article has Pallies all wrong here...