Talk:Elven druid

Hope this is good enough to become an article. I got the article off of the Runestone page. Mr.X8 20:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Link
The link says it is gone. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 07:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite?
Seeing as a lot of the content of this article seems to be based on speculation and conjecture with few and scant source materials, would anyone object if I rewrote this article as a speculation page, indicating what there is in terms of supporting evidence? Primal Zed (talk) 13:16, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely wouldn't object. Article has kind of lost it's focus and jumps around repeating itself. As long as we present everything in as neutral a setting as possible, staying away from loaded words, and not atempt to offhandly unqualify information from official sources (for example it's okay to meantion Warcraft II been subject to massive retcons, but don't make statements such as "it's defintly been retconned and should be ignored" as to let readers come to their own conclusions) I think it's a great idea. 14:32, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Done with the rewrite, though I can't think of an appropriate title.Primal Zed (talk) 19:17, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

I suggest moving it to "Elven Druid" as was refered in Warcraft II and remove all references throughout the article about the term "druid magi" as it isn't official. Also, I think that the speculation tag shouldn't be for the entire article, but just for a few parts as most information is just presented and avoid fan-interpreted explanations. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:38, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought of "elven druid" as well, but unfortunately saying just "elven" includes night elves. Can't just say "high elven" because then you would be excluding blood elves.  Also, since all the indicators of the existence of these high/blood elf druids is very suspect (vague, possibly outdated references, the mere fact that there are these 'botanists', who are never referred to as druids and could very likely be doing what they do using arcane magic), I think the Speculation tag does belong at the top of the article.Primal Zed (talk) 02:30, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the term (Elven Druid) is captialized in Warcraft II manual, so, if we left it capitalized, it would be a term for this elves without including the night elves (beacause including them it would be "elven druid" lower case). About the speculation, the WC2 info may be outdated but we keep a neutral point of view where all sources are valid, the RPG has information directly refering to high elves and half-elves practicing druidism; and the blood elves are never told to be druids, you're right, but it isn't that told in the article, it just said that they use druid abilities and have druid sets, so that's why I think that the speculation shouldn't be for the entire article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 22:45, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's awkward, I was editing the page when you posted this. I don't know how you would distinguish that the "Elven Druid" title of an article is capitalized as a 'proper noun' rather than just as the title of an article, but that could work for references from other articles.  Considering the RPG doesn't allow High Elves or Half Elves to be druids, you can't say that it "directly refers" to them being druids, especially since any race can be a savagekin.  The way I structured the article starts out saying that these druid magi might exist in the Warcraft lore, and goes on to discuss the supporting points of this thought process, along with reasoning as to why it's not definitive.  Since there is no definitive proof that Elven Druids are still part of the official lore (the WC2 reference being seemingly retconned by the Encyclopedia, and it was before 'druids' were defined as we know them), I am still of the opinion that the subject of the article is based on speculation.  (As you have probably concluded, I am probably biased in that opinion, but I am trying to keep this as neutral as I can.)Primal Zed (talk) 23:00, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to rename the article "Elven Druids," capitalized to indicate it refers to the WC2 manual, then everything outside of the WC2 section should belong under a Speculation tag. (sorry for the double post)Primal Zed (talk) 23:03, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * I modified the article as you said and moved it to Elven Druid, but I still think that the RPG isn't speculation as it tells that high elf rangers practiced druidism and that half-elves can be savagekins. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 23:42, September 14, 2009 (UTC)