Talk:Priest talents

Revamp
Hey everybody, alot of changes just took place, so everyone try to remain calm. I've added templates for all three talent trees, added a stub article for every talent, did some basic edits for the introduction section, and a brief intro to each tree above the templates. If you're concerned about data loss, I moved most of the data that was originally here to the new stub articles that I made for the individual talents. This page will be much easier to navigate now. Nswinton 12:09, 25 February 2007 (EST)

normalization
I second that notion. I'm going to try and get on it in the next few days, hopefully. I'm planning on using the basic template from the warrior article. Any objections? Nswinton 16:25, 24 February 2007 (EST)

This page still needs to be normalized, much like the rogue / warrior pages for talents CJ 04:53, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

other
Should these pages be more fact based because this page is filled with conjecture? D.kanen 15:40, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)


 * I think you need to be more specific about what needs facts. The Priest Talents page is more a mix of facts and opinion, not necessarily pure conjecture. As far as I can tell, the opinions are mostly based on evidence of experience and effectiveness during play. Unless you are a Blizzard developer with direct access to the source code, everything that is said about the game is conjecture to some degree, but I think within realistic expectations, this talent page has useful info.
 * Do you know a Blizzard developer with direct access to the source code?
 * - Fandyllic 5:44 PM PDT 1 August 2005

I updated it for 1.10, please check for errors. --Cigawoot 08:40, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Is the 20% increase in healing from Power Infusion applied before or after the +healing stat? If it is applied after +healing, then another use for the spell would be to 'down-rank' your own heals to save mana within the 15 seconds. --Sinheart 08:30, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

Just looking at the 'level to 20' stuff at the start.... I'm not so sure about blackout with 3 points. Even at level 60 I tend to find this a hinderance in PVE... Throw on the shield and open with Mind Blast and SW:P. But when either of these procs blackout on the target, you then aren't in range to cast Mind Flay, leaving you either to run towards the monster, or wait and stab at Mind Flay. Running at the mob tends to cause me to run too close losing some of that valuable pre-melee distance. More often than not I wish I simply hadn't put any points in this talent, although its very handy in PVP especially if you are chasing a target down and spamming away at SW:P rank 1 as there isn't a great deal a priest can do vs an enemy that is fleeing at distance otherwise. Just wondering if i was alone in finding this talent often irritating? However I'm not too sure how useful shadow focus is as its been a very long time since I played shadow without this talent (almost a year at this point). Thoughts? --IPrice 06:21, 06 August 2006

IPrice - I Agree. I'm considering re-wording the level 20 stuff to make it appear as more of opinion AmunRa 17:06, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

Inspiration (Talent)
My question/comment/concern comes from the following passage under the Priest talent Inspiration... "There is a running perception that because the damage reduction due to armor isn't linear, that it isn't beneficial to have armor over a certain point. However, once the math is accurately understood, a 25% increase to armor will represent an improvement of 25% damage reduction. This talent simply serves to make your life as a healer a little easier."

From experience with my Feral Tank Druid (60), that 25% increase in armor, does not equal a 25% increase in damage reduction, but merely a very small percent. For example, a character (level 60) with 10,000 armor, fighting a level 60 mob, has approximatley 65% damage reduction. Once affected with Inspiration, that armor gets boosted to 12,500, with approximatley a 5% damage reduction gain, according to Formulas:Damage_reduction (and personal experience).

If i am correct, then other talent pages would need to be changed as well. If I'm wrong, so be it. Just wanting to throw that out there, see what others feedback is.-- Deranged Hermit 13:06, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * To my understanding, the information on the page is correct. As you mention, damage reduction increases more slowly the higher armor values you have, but overall staying power increases linearly. --bfx 04:01, 14 February 2007 (EST)


 * Well, let's look at this with our new numbers in BC. If you had 10,000 armor, you're reducing damage from a raid boss by 45.5%, thus taking 54.5% of the damage, according to a formula on Formulas:Damage_reduction. 12,500 armor nets you 51.1% reduction, so you take 48.9% of the damage. 48.9% / 54.5% = 89.7% as much damage, which is 10.3% less damage than you were taking before. Therefore, it isn't actually a 25% difference in damage taken.


 * Assume my druid has 25,000 armor unbuffed (which is pretty close to reality). That's 67.6% reduction, 32.4% taken. Increasing it by 25% yields 31250 armor, 72.3% reduction, 27.7% taken. That's a total of 27.7% / 32.4% = 85.5% as much damage taken, which is 14.5% less damage. This suggests that the reduction bonus granted by this talent actually improves as the tank's armor gets higher, at least until it hits 28,704 at which point you're maxing his armor-based reduction against a raid boss with this talent, increasing the armor to 35,880 and reduction to a full 75%.


 * This is all somewhat moot re: Priest talents, though, because i see the quote to which you are referring has been removed. The information on the Inspiration page is satisfactory to me. Corrodias 16:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Various changes
If you find this information wrong or not appropriate, please comment. --bfx 04:32, 14 February 2007 (EST)
 * Holy Nova: cleaned up the "where to use it" section. First, it is far from being necessary against Vael and as personally see it in this situation more as a fun spell rather than actually necessary (which should be stated on the Holy Nova page, but not on this talent list IMHO).
 * Blessed Recovery: to my experience, this information was either wrong or out-dated (not sure). (1) I haven't encountered any strange behaviour in conjunction with Renew past BC. (2) AFAIK the proc condition was altered long ago.
 * Healing Prayers: I tried to be as NPOV as possible. From what I experienced, in 5-man dungeons PoH has many uses, whereas in (especially PUG) PvP and raid PvE it can be used very rarely.

Edits to Disc Priest
Changed "survivability due toImproved Power Word: Shield and Improved Power Word: Fortitude spells." t... "Unbreakable Will  Silent Resolve  Pain Suppression".

Gives a priest 230 extra hp, and 200 more damage absorbed is nothing (although the latter is debatable depending upon how often PW: S is cast during a fight). The above are the key survivability talents of disc spec.


 * At the highest level, Power Word: Fortitude gives 165 extra Stamina (without Improved Power Word: Fortitude) or 214 Stamina with. That's a difference of 49 Stamina, or 490 Hit Points. Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Cataclysm and 4.0.1
So 4.0.1 is here and Cataclysm is around the corner. As expected the site ist totally and utterly out of date. My suggestion for the update would be: a table ordered by level and what that level is giving (ability, talent point, nothing) with a section below for each specc detailing summary spell and abilities as well as obtainable actives from the tree. But since It's a lot of work I'd appreciate some feedback and a consensual ability and talent page for every class. Slayman (talk) 07:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It looks like several edits have been done today to help bring the talent lists themselves up-to-date. I don't know if that was similar to what you were envisioning or not.  The intro paragraph looks like it needs updated still (looks like it still refers to the old talent point gaining pattern.  I wonder what the best way to deal with the "Early Talent Suggestions" is?  Maybe remove that section all together and work discussion of what the 'base abilities' gained by picking a tree into the introductory remarks before each tree sub-section?  Would a short discussion of the Mastery for each tree be better suited here or the Priest abilities page?  --BeliaAD (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I updated the Discipline tree, but my writing skills are quite limited, so I didn't try and change much, I will try my best to update talents/trees/spells. I like this idea "Maybe remove that section all together and work discussion of what the 'base abilities' gained by picking a tree into the introductory remarks before each tree sub-section? by BeliaAD", I will try and update the Holy and Shadow tree asap. Let me know if I can help with anything. Luxcura (talk) 07:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I updated the Shadow talents. Hopefully the format is consistent with what everyone else is doing. The DK talents page has something we may wish to copy to display Tree specific talents (penance/CoH/Mind flay). Sryii (talk) 19:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)Sryii
 * Tnx :D I was going to do that today, glad to see more ppl doing this, I will look have a loot at the DK pages. Would be awesome if someone updated the Text above the Shadow Tree, think that's the only thing missing to have this page up to date Luxcura (talk) 21:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I made a change to the Discipline tree where if you hoover the mouse you can see the tool tip, tell me what you guys think about that, if you do I'll do the same to the other trees, I will create the 2 missing pages for those shadow talents asap. Luxcura (talk) 21:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems only 1 Shadow Talent needed a new page Phantasm since ,Masochism was only not showing due to a typo. Luxcura (talk) 22:20, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

All talents are now updated, I extended the hoovering tooltips to the Holy and Shadow trees, my next priority will be going through each talent in the trees, seems some need to be updated. Luxcura (talk) 05:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Further Updates Needed
While I can only speak for Holy (my main tree), as of Feb 2011, quite a few of these talents have been changed again, and are currently out of date. I've begun the fairly lengthy task of updating and correcting each of the Holy talents both on this page and on their own pages - so far about 9 out of 10 have had significant errors, some major. While I'm happy to beaver away at the Holy tree, perhaps somebody a little better acquainted with Discipline or Shadow would like to tackle the other talents - or at least check whether they are in a similar state? Currently some of the data on this page, and much of the data on the related pages is out of date, sometimes just a change in tier or ranks, sometimes a big change to % or the effect itself. If we work really hard, we might even get them up-to-date before they change them all again ;) -- Taohinton (talk) 00:29, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Case in point: There is currently no page for Rapid Renewal (Tier 4 Holy priest talent, reducing global cooldown of Renew by 1 sec) on Wowpedia, nor was it on the list. Time to learn how to create new pages... :P -- Taohinton (talk) 21:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Things To Do: (4.0.6)


 * DISCIPLINE tree
 * Check/update talent list on this page
 * Check/update all individual talent pages
 * Add Specialisation box and descriptions


 * HOLY tree
 * Check/update talent list on this page
 * Check/update all individual talent pages
 * Add Specialisation box and descriptions
 * Create new page for Rapid Renewal


 * SHADOW tree
 * Check/update talent list on this page
 * Check/update all individual talent pages
 * Add Specialisation box and descriptions

Please add to/strike through as applicable :) -- Taohinton (talk) 22:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The specialisation boxes look great btw! I don't think the 'Choosing a Specialisation' secton is necessary; they are quite self-explanitory. Perhaps it could be a section on Starting a priest instead? --Grynd (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * True; I've removed it from the list. I think the idea is fine but in terms of repetition and organisation, yes it would really be best for the Starting a priest page. Alas, it doesn't yet exist (on that page) but when it does that would be a fine place for it, and we can just add a link to direct ppl there on that topic. Thanks and gj on the rest of the boxes ^_^ --Taohinton (talk) 15:59, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Outdated Talent Suggestions
While much of the article is pretty good, the second section "Early Talent Suggestions" is surely fairly redundant now that we have the 3 talent trees and lockouts. It seems like it might be a good idea to update this section to describe the benefits immediately granted by each specialisation and maybe give a quick impression of each spec before launching into the more detailed lists below -- Taohinton (talk) 22:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed. I agree it has become redundant, and if anywhere it should be on Priest builds rather than here. --Grynd (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2011 (UTC)