Talk:World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King/Archive3

Borean Tundra and Coldarra
Now on Blizzards map for Borean Tundra shown at Blizzcon in the Coldarra area it said 'sub-zone', and while it is hard to see on the map it is possible to make it out. So technically the Nexus is in Borean Tundra with Coldarra being a sub-zone. Basically it would be like saying Auchindoun is in the Bone Wastes instead of Terokkar Forest. I would go with Blizzards own map being more correct then speculation that it is it's own zone based on a RPG book map. The little text under Coldarra on the larger map just says 'sub-zone' while the other zones it gives the level ranges for that zone underneath the zone name. Currently there are 10 zones in Northrend them being Howling Fjord, Borean Tundra, Sholazar Basin, Dragonblight, Lake Wintergrasp, Zul'drak, Storm Peaks, Grizzly Hills, Crystalsong Forest, and Icecrown. If Blizzard went with a 11th zone I could go with it being a part of Ajzol'Nerub not the area of Coldarra. Coldarra is just the Bone Wastes of Northrend as a rather large sub-zone with a multi-winged instance in the middle. I can remember people speculating the Bone Wastes was it's own zone. http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/leviathonlx4/borean.jpg Leviathon 19:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * However, we have separate articles for them as they are very different areas. Given that map, it does seem fair to say it is a subzone of the Borean Tundra though. This isn't about making the numbers fit, but clarity. The game is still in development, so things can change. 19:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yea I understand having 2 pages since both areas are pretty different. Just right now it should be mentioned that it is currently a sub-zone not its own actual zone since thats what it is right now. Course things can and will change a lot between now and the alpha next year, but Blizzard does tend to follow their layout maps for zones and instances with little to no changes. Leviathon 19:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's because if it would be two different zones, it would look ugly when looking on the Borean Tundra map that a big island to the west doesn't have texture. Instead of making two identical maps - one with fill, the other without - they made it all into one. Compare other zone + island scenarios: Durotar + the Echo Isles, Feralas + the Isle of Dread, Western Plaguelands + Caer Darrow, Silverpine Forest + Fenris Isle, etc... If an island isn't as giant as Kalidar (Teldrassil is the tree, that's the name of the island), it will belong to another zone. --  Shandris   talk / contribs  19:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It depends on the map Shandris on maps such as the Alterac Mountains map the Fenris Isle is a untextured island in the northern part of the map since the island is in Silverpine. The zone really is just like Terokkar. It has a rather large portion that is a sub-zone that just isn't big enough to warrant making it its own zone. Leviathon 20:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Previous to that map, however, Coldarra has always been a completely separate area, RPG-wise. 20:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Basically it's like the Bone Wastes which looked like and was its own zone before TBC on the old Warcraft II map. Blizzard probably figured it was best just to treat Coldarra the same way. Leviathon 20:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

New landmass / map?
Aside from Northrend, take a look at the new map. There is certainly new land just west of Stormwind. New zone, perhaps? Blackhawk003 13:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That zone is in the WOW intro cinematic and was in the WOW alfa. They may have used the map just for blizzcon because the zones aren't finalized Zakolj 19:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd imagine it was just easier for them to fit Northrend into that map but it's also possible its a map thats even older than the alpha map. Since originally they intended on Northrend being in the original game it's possible that map was their original map just with some modifications. So rather then making a new map they just took one of their older ones and editted it a bit. Leviathon 20:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What was in the zone, then? Kind of weird having something that looks like The Barrens in the middle of pretty, green Azeroth...I also like how they didn't include the Sunwell Plateau.   D:  The old game map had it.  Maybe they mixed the current maps and the old ones and threw Northrend on top?  --Super Bhaal 18:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As Zakolj guessed, the map they showed is the alpha map that was used during development of the original World of Warcraft. Development hadn't progressed far enough for them to show the real map yet.


 * I think I found the Entrence to the Boat to Northrend! (maybe someone already found it) I was powerleveling my Mining skill (Level 70, just re-proffed) when i reached a cave...It was Closed with lots of rocks, and if i puted my screen to the side of them, it is definatly Blocked. It is at the South-West at the Searing Gorge, there...Its the Entry to that Mysterious zone!! For Cenarius!


 * Do you mean Blackchar Cave? I used the map viewer to go through the rocks...it looks like it was once some sort of quest-cave, a canned backdoor to Burning Steppes  ( if it were to go to Burning Steppes it'd get out at the Altar of Storms ), or as you've suggested a canned entrance to some sort of "Gnomeregan-that-was", or a Gnome Coldridge Valley.
 * Though it could just as well be some sort of access point to Northrend from Azeroth, and I could easily see them reworking the entire zone to include some sort of mountains around Stormwind, a wilderness zone consisting of the, well, mountains, and a port town sattelite of Stormwind ( that has been mysteriously neglected for god knows how long )  or a newfound gnome, goblin, or gnoblin city that functions like a port town, situated on the sea.
 * Of course, why they'd make a port there and not at Southshore or Kul Tiras eludes me... --Super Bhaal 23:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The boat is going to be somewhere easily accessed by the alliance, as the zeps are to the horde. They have plenty of dock space at Theramore as well as making another dock at Menethil Harbor. It will most likely be at one of those places. Or the rumored new land being added just north west of stormwind. 01:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Map changes
Section removed from the article (demonstrably false):

It looks like some of the old is also changing. Inspired by a post over at Casual WoW, the above on the right shows the WotLK map with outlines from the current live map superimposed in blue. So what's changed?


 * Kalimdor changed in shape significantly. No longer looking quite so much like a penguin, it now has a more crescent-shaped profile.
 * Two new islands off the southwest coast of the Eastern Kingdoms.
 * New bit of land north of Westfall, west of Stormwind on the west coast of EK.
 * Islands Northwest of Tirisfal removed, and two small ones added north of Scarlet Monestary [thanks, Captain Tonga]
 * Also the Broken Isles seem to missing from this picture

Why do you think these changes were made? Theorize away. It looks like mostly unreachable areas that were removed, but I can't imagine what they're going to do with that new chunk of land near Stormwind. Of course, this is just artwork, and may not correspond that closely to actual in-game geography, but I bet something is going on there.

Given the above conversation and other related posts, this probably shouldn't be part of the article. 22:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What bugs me is that the Sunwell Plateau isn't there. I guess those two islands off of Lordaeron are what'll become of the "Quel'thalas" zone thing you can swim to.  --Super Bhaal 21:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the above conversation where it's said it's a WoW alpha map. It's not new. 23:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't that just a map from the WoW Alpha with Northrend attached to the top? =/ 19:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "Read the above conversation where it's said it's a WoW alpha map. It's not new." So, er, yeah. 20:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The WoW Alpha map had Azuremyst Isles on it? -Bushface 03:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Blah, blah, blah, they shooped Azuremyst, malformed Quel'Thalas missing Zul'Aman and Sunwell Plateau, and Northrend on the alpha map. --Super Bhaal 03:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Blizzard already discussed the true map for the game was not done yet so they just took the alpha map and editted it. Hence why Silithus is missing along with other map discrepancies. Course maybe they are adding back Gilijims Isle and and Island of Dr. Lapidis off the shore of STV. Zul'Aman is not on the current game map since it is a instance now and Blizzard I guess just felt it would of looked odd to have it on the world map as blank space that no one will ever access. Kind of how southern Silithus is like now. Leviathon 13:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Has anything been said about updates to Forest Song? It looks like they're trying to build a new Draenei city there.. will that be expanded in the expansion? If so, what will be done with the Exodar and Azuremyst Isle? For that matter, what kind of changes would be added to make Blood Elves more accessible? Alterac Mountains? --Vidihawk 22:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Last Expansion
This damn well better be the last expansion, I'd hate to have killed Arthas only to find that the game goes on to kill Ashara and/or Kil'jaiden. Blizzard must get this straight - the Lich King is the ultimate enemy, end of story. Plus they need to keep some enemies alive for Warcraft IV!Mannerheim 07:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Why is he the ultimate enemy? Is this what you have been led to believe? How do you know Azshara is not more powerful? Most enemies from WC3 didn't exist before WC3 and nearly every NPC is invented in WoW - why can new ones not be made? Basically, I'm saying - there is little need to panic. 07:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * They do have it straight, Arthas isn't the strongest enemy in the universe (at least in my book). --Raze 08:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hate to break it to you Mannerheim, but I heard somewhere that Blizzard wants to make one expansion per year. I'm sure if we bug them enough they'll make that one featuring The Great Sea.

We've still got to fight Azshara, Malygos, Deathwing ( he's got to be in another expansion if he's still alive... ), and the entire Burning Legion. Oh, then there's the Old Gods. If those don't work, I'm sure the writers'll come up with something else. Hell, we might even have to fight Garona. D: --Super Bhaal 09:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be Sargeras that's the 'ultimate villain' in the Warcraft universe, especially since his status is kind of nebulous. Since the portals are now open on Outland (according to comments by Metzen on blizzplanet) it's probable that we'll get a Twisting Nether expansion pack. I'm guessing that after WotLK, we'll get two more XPs; one dealing with Azshara and the Old Gods and another dealing with the Burning Legion permenantly. Since this would bring the level cap up to 100 (presumably), I'm guessing that that'll be the last game in the series.

Anyway, that's just me.Hawki 13:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Still plenty of characters for us to fight after Arthas. We have Ashzara, the Emerald Nightmare and whatever is causing it, the Old Gods that are left, The Elemental Plane and the rest of the Burning Legion. Also Metzen said new bad guys and heroes will arise in the game from the WoW comic. Leviathon 16:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I also heard that Blizzard would like to release on expansion a year. I personally like this plan. And we all know that Blizzard will alter the game dynamic to allow players to reach the growing level cap in a reasonable amount of time. However, we could see Bliz do a horizontal expansion at some point, simply adding content and not raising the level cap. I could see them doing that with the Emerald Nightmare or the Twisting Nether. However, as someone who watched Star Trek for all his young years, you must know that writers can always find a new villain out there. They are also very good at recycling old ones (can you could Wesley as a villain?)

You lot don't get it do you? Arthas is the ultimate enemy, he may not be the strongest, but he's the most evil. He's caused so much destruction and your supposed to hate his guts for killing Uther, Muradin and Terenas. It makes utterly perfect sense to defeat the most loathed enemy last! Who cares about Azhara or Kiljaedin? Blizzard will see where i'm going with this--Mannerheim 23:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I um unsure who you are talking about who doesn't care about Ashzara or Kil'Jaeden. Either characters in the lore or actual players. Kil'Jaeden has caused plenty of destruction he is responsible for what happened to Outland in the long run and the reason why Azeroth was decimated and Lordaeron came close to it and hell hes responsible for the Lich King also! Aszhara is the reason why theres a giant maelstrom in the middle of the 2 continents instead of there just being 1 continent still and is clearly planning on doing something eventually. Leviathon 00:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "Who cares about Azshara or Kil'Jaeden?" So I suppose we'll just sit back and let the Burning Legion destroy us, then? Or just watch as the Naga destroy the surface world? These are powerful, dangerous enemies that need to be dealt with for the safety of all. ~Peregrine

Yeah,I`d like too see another contenent in Outland that has Kil`Jaeden and Sergerus.And defeating the coruption in the Emerald Dream and the Naga.Also maybe blizzard can make new enomys.-Airiph 16:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * What about those poor pandaren in pandaria? They have to be played as too! :( They can't stay hidden forever! >:D 20:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Kil'Jaeden is, well rumored at least I can't remember if it is confirmed or not, I think it is, anyways he will probably be the end boss of the upcoming sunwell plateau raid, which will be added pre-wrath. ~Peregrine

Besides, you guys know how Azeroth is. You can't dig a three foot hole without unleashing some ancient evil. --Austin P 14:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Plus the Aliance and Horde can fight eachother in warcraft 4 or sergerus returns and they have to combine!Theres still alot of ideas out there!- 17:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, arthas is only realy as much hateable by the alliance. He di hurt the horde some, but no where near as much as the allaince. I think we know wich side mannerheim rolls for :P. Yes, he hurt the BE's and the forsaken, btu the old hored is fine. Happy taurens come from TB 20:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ehm, you don't think massacring the high elf race and torturing the leader of the Forsaken is enough to hate Arthas with a passion? The Horde has more than enough reason to hate Arthas. More so than Alliance, I'd even say.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  20:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ker-ehm, you don't think the fact of, being responsible for the loss of the whole of Lordaeron (wih oh so many millions of people murdered and tortured), as well as motivating the departure of the Blood Elves from the Alliance (it's not Garithos's fact, the Blood Elves would have returned to the more comprehensive and helpful Alliance authorities if not for their leader and Illidan), as well as an ignominious betrayal and murder of his OWN FATHER and OWN PEOPLE, being responsible (although not entirely, he did not murder him intentionally) for Muradin Bronzebeard's death, provides better reasons to the Alliance to hold a grudge against Arthas? I can't tell which issue of Warcraft III you've been playing, mate.-- K )  (talk) 21:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So what is the business of the current Alliance with the destruction of Lordaeron? There were several human nations within the old Alliance. Stormwind and Lordaeron were not one and the same nation. Of course they ought to be upset by the loss of their allies, but in no means they were directly involved in the catastrophe. Furthermore, I'm not really sure whether the Alliance holds Arthas or the blood elves themselves responsible for swapping factions. Applying the concept of projection, I'd say that the blood elves themselves are at fault for this. The death of Muradin is a good reason for the Alliance to hate Arthas actually, but for the rest.. it's just indirect involvement, whereas the Horde has direct involvement.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  08:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * At the same time, though, only two of the Horde races have been directly affected by the Scourge. Aside from the fact that the plague only targeted humans,  the orcs, trolls, and tauren were on the other side of the world at the time.  The Alliance had half their territory destroyed (or at least assaulted) by the Scourge.  Many of the refugees from Lordaeron who survived now reside in Stormwind, and would definitely want revenge.  And since the plague specifically targets humans, they're all at risk.  The dwarves are in it for Muradin, and the night elves had their forests ravaged by Scourge forces under the command of the Burning Legion (and the fact that the Burning Legion and the Lich King are at odds with each other is almost certainly not public knowledge).  The draenei are too new to the conflict, but would likely jump in after hearing about the Legion's involvement from the elves.  And the gnomes... Well, they're gnomes.  Can't really say much about them.  Still, the Alliance races as a whole have been affected by the Scourge far more than the Horde races. -- Dark T Zeratul 09:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * UPSET? Do you mean that the loss of 50% of their brethren merely makes them UPSET?-- K )  (talk) 13:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Eh hem. Yes it made them upset. But normaly people use it a hell lot more lightly than what he said --The last Alterac 07:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

You guys are all forgetting one thing - no one is even 100% sure that you totally kill off Arthas in the expansion. For all you know, this is a 2 or 3 part expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, Fall of the Lich King, Ressurection of the Lich King, plus there's Emerald Dream (which is already rumored to be a future expansion), the great sea, the old gods - Arthas isn't the last enemy of the game. Also, WoW isn't all about finishing the story from WC3, it's about expanding it, so there could be another one created if Arthas is actually killed. Don't assume that this would (or "should") be the last expansion. Anonymous Source 05:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Notes: Scarlet Crusade and nasty Gnomes
What would be great would be to have a few of the Scarlet Crusade expedition alive and friendly to Alliance, and the rest raised by the Scourge, with large areas of battle scarred land.

Also, why are there nasty Gnomes in Valgarde in the expansion trailer. Gnomes didn't take part in the Third War and they'll ruin the majesty of it.Mannerheim 07:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What nasty gnomes? 07:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure there were some gnomes that lived in Ironforge with the dwarves back then, who helped in Lordaeron. --Super Bhaal 09:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There were no gnomes around during the Third War according to WoW manuals and RPG. However there has been plenty of time for gnomes to have moved to Northrend between TFT and Wrath. According the RPG there has been travelers to Valgarde for a while now. Its essentially the Alliance main port and base of operations in the North10:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, thanks for clearing that up. I always thought since the gnomes and dwarves were such good friends a couple of them would've tagged along to Lordaeron during the Third War or something...you know, contributing but staying in the dwarves' shadows...you'd think that at least one gnome who happened to be there would take an interest in the plague or something.  --Super Bhaal 10:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think That a few years have past from warcraft III I think its 4 to WOW and another to TBC and maybe another 1 to WOTLK there is a female draenei in the trailer if they could get to Nortland in a year then gnomes could and can get to Nortrend. IF you think of the gnome town that is in the Borean Tundra Zakolj 12:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Like, five or six years I think. I got nothing against it, after all it's entirely possible with all the technology at the gnomes' disposal.  I'm sure they'll strike up a neat little rivalry with goblins there too.  Something along the lines of oil rights, mayhaps?  ...glacier water?  --Super Bhaal 17:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The gnomes may not have played any role in the Third War...but they did contribute to the Second War (Gnomish Flying Machines, Gnomish Submarines). I was actually a little surprised that they weren't in WC3, truthfully; maybe that was when the whole war against the troggs in Gnomeregan was going on? --Joshmaul 03:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Think so. Still surprises me, since the gnomes and dwarves were always such good friends.   :/  --Super Bhaal 16:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * A few of the Scarlet Expedition people alive and friendly to Alliance would be a great feature, but the new Silver Hand oder kind of makes them pointless in use.-- 20:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but we'll HAVE to assume we'll see a little bit of the Scarlet Crusade, since Tirion Fordring turns up wielding the Ashbringer... Hey guys, any clues on whether we eventually get it or just get to see Tirion with it? ~Peregrine


 * I'm not sure the presence of Tirion means the Crusade will be there as Tirion is the head of the Knights of the Silver Hand. --Karye 1:57, Aug 23 2007 PST


 * The connection I'm referring to is crusade-ashbringer, not crusade-tirion. ~Peregrine


 * My problem with the gnomes isn't that some adventuring types have gone there, but that they're the guards! The soldiers of Valgarde are the remnants of Arthas' expedition, really toughened survivors like Honour Hold's. Except there were no gnomes in the expedition, so therefore no gnomes guarding Valgarde please!--Mannerheim 23:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure the gnomes are just reinforcements sent by Mekkatorque to help relieve their brother dwarves and humans. Actually, I'd like to see the High Tinker being more active in the world instead of just standing on his cogwheel whining about level 30 radiation beasties and waving a spanner. In fact, I'd like to see him relocate to somewhere more dangerous; just to show that the leader of the gnomish race still has balls. And nuts. And bolts. :)
 * Northrend, possibly being a place of great lore importance for the gnomes - as it is for their dwarven cousins - sounds a perfect place to lend a hand, especially considering Dalaran's reappearance in the northern skies (which has a large gnomish population). However, I guess Blizzard hasn't exactly been thinking much about Gelbin and the gnomes recently (they're rather easy to miss...). I say keep the gnomes, just to show that the wee race of beardies still stands by its allegiance to the bigger race of beardies. --

''Also, why are there nasty Gnomes in Valgarde in the expansion trailer. Gnomes didn't take part in the Third War and they'll ruin the majesty of it.''

Eh hem. There is a little unit called Gyrocopters in warcarft 3. Who in warcraft 2 are called Gnomish Flying machines. SO the gnomes did take part in the 3rd war THEY ARE THE ONES PILOTING Those things--The last Alterac 07:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC) The soldiers of Valgarde are the remnants of Arthas' expedition, really toughened survivors like Honour Hold's. Except there were no gnomes in the expedition, so therefore no gnomes guarding Valgarde please FUCK YOU BLIZZARD. There goes my concept for my fan fiction I was writing (I shake my fists at that fact and those survivors of Alterac known as the sindicate.) --The last Alterac 07:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The pilotes of the Gyrocopters in Warcraft III were dwarves, not gnomes.--Odolwa 22:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * They didn't sound anything like dwarves! And The Last Alterac, children read this :) ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 21:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They were dwarves piloting the WC3 Gyrocopters; and they were dwarven creations, not gnomish. Gnomish Flying Machine, Gyrocopter. Gnomes played no part in the third war. --Gordal 09:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Now that it's officially confirmed that an offshot of the Scarlet Crusade, the Scarlet Onslaught, is gonna have a base in the Dragonblight, it could be added to the factions' section in the page. Man, I can't wait to know more about these new Scarlet guys :) --Morgaur 11:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Transportation to/from Northrend
In the Blizzcon presentation, two entry points in Northrend were mentioned, and most likely you get to them by ship from neutral cities (Ratchet and Booty Bay?), or maybe both Northrend harbours have two routes each. However, in the video there's also a short scene showing an airstrip (it was even commented on by the presenter), and I came to think about the airstrip next to Ironforge. Could it be that Blizzard intends on introducing a new type of transportation, a gnome airplane (we've already seen them in several places) that works in a similar way to ships and airships? It would be cool if you could jump directly from IF to Northrend like that. However, it would probably require more airfields, some for Horde and some located in Kalimdor. (Abekongen 11:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC))


 * I had thought that maybe since Northrend curves over over continents, the entry points for Northrend could be faction-specific. When I played the expansion at BlizzCon (as Alliance) there was a boat that took you from Auberdine's docks to the new area. Since we only played the Howling Fjords, we don't know if it will stay that way. I also understand that Horde players took a zeplin from Undercity to the new area. I would assume that both factions will have access to the starting locations. Blizzard created two locations to help alleviate the issues we all experienced at the start of where you had hundreds of players trying to do the same quests and there are pleanty of servers with poor Alliance/Horde ratios.


 * Aye, one idea that came up one idea is that the Alliance Borean Tundra access is via airplane to the gnome city they briefly showed us. 17:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In a video it shows them going around the zones and shows a Zeppelin pulling in and out of the Warsong Hold entrance and a boat pulling into a Alliance coastal town in Borean Tundra. Since Tetsuo said Auberdine is the Howling Fjord entrance then I would guess Menethil would be the Borean Tundra boat for Alliance and Orgrimmar and Undercity for Horde (making a Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms entrance for both). The videos were on IGN originally before being taken down during Blizzcon but they are on Youtube now: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vd5gpWV3WZI Shows Warsong Hold Zeppelin around 1:12 and http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y11FN_thyrs Shows the Alliance vessel around 1:18. While it's stuff that can change in the future thats how it stands now. Leviathon 22:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I just came up with a thing =) Notice that Alliance always build their cities by the sea for boat travel, while the Horde has their cities inland for Zeppelin access. Clever, huh? --  Shandris   talk / contribs  00:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a bit worrying for the Horde. While may be an advantage to the Horde in the sense that Orgrimmar and Undercity are extremely accessible, it may become too accessible. With Zepps linking almost every major Horde centres in Azeroth, I find it very vulnerable to raids. --Invin Dranoel 13:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a feeling that we'll be able to acces Northrend from the old dalaran somehow, zeppelins or a port city in the peninsula south of Silverpine Forest perhaps Dragonreign 18:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Character Customization
The main page mentions players can "customize their characters using new hairstyles and skin colors," I don't recall ever hearing about new skin colors. I thought it was just hair and dance (and I assume hair color as well). Is this incorrect? --Karye 1:54 Aug 23 2007 PST


 * Damn, i would pay good money to get rid of my hideous undead greenish hue. --Raze 03:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * weren't there also going to be new dances? or should i say spoof of existing ones ;P Dragonreign 18:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

New Races/Lack Thereof
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161725 states that there will be no new races in WotLK. Should we write something up about that on the page? Alchemistmerlin 16:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's already stated. 21:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, missed that somehow. Alchemistmerlin 22:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Frostmourne?
Any news on whether you can get this. Also, are there any really epic maces planned?


 * No word from Blizzard on whether or not Frostmourne will be lootable, however since the Twin Blades of Azzinoth can be looted it is pretty safe to assume that Frostmourne will be lootable as well - though again, this is pure speculation. As for any really epic loot planned, again Blizzard has said nothing even if they do have some loot planned out, and the only loot we can give a name to that may or may not be within our grasp in the xpax is Frostmourne and the Ashbringer. ~Peregrine


 * Alright, thanks for the quick reply. It just seems to me that mace users are lacking a truly amazing mace. Swordies get azzinoths', and maybe ashbringer and frostmourne. Staffies get Atiesh, just seems like if you want anything else, you're out of luck


 * Have you looked at the Frostmourne page recently?? 03:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Even if you could pull it off Arthas' smoldering corpse, I'm sure it wouldn't work for you. The Lich King planned Arthas' to claim it. ~Saxons


 * Not really, in WC3:ROC, it was said that Frostmourne was designed to claim souls, that Arthas was merely the first. --Raze 03:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * But then there was this time Kel'Thuzad said something along the lines of "The Lich King chose you (Arthas) to be his Champion some time ago". Whatever the case, I hope it wont drop. I'm a lore nut and I would hate to see it in the hands of Xxxomgpwnsxx. ~Saxons


 * Come to think of it, the blade's ability to claim souls probably wouldn't matter when the Lich King is dead. My guess is like the Skull of Gul'dan and the Twin Blades, it will be lootable. PS you can sign your posts with ~ .--Raze 03:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If I'm going to accept Arthas' is killable because hes the avatar of the Lich King, the Lich King's spirit has to just float off. It doesn't seem like 25 people will be able to even scratch Arthas. ~Saxons


 * If 25 people can halt Archimonde for any length of time, then I guess anything is possible. --Raze 03:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Right now, I think Arthas could one shot Archimonde :) ~Saxons


 * Kirkburn, I'm almost positive thats fake... I think the paragraph right next to it telling us all it was fake was probably the giveaway ;) although I DO notice my hands trembling at the thought of having my very own Frostmourne replica! ~Peregrine


 * Blizzard announced it themselves. The photo is real, and I was there. 04:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No they didn't go watch the video of the Northrend panel again. They did create that sample but stated that "This was for fun and not the real item in WoW". Saxons 15:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right, Frostmourne won't exist in the shape Blizzard showed us at Blizzcon. The statistics on the sword are likely to be way overpowered for even level 80 players and its "equip"-text seems to serve no purpose. You'd also think that Blizzard would give the most fabled sword in Warcraft lore a more serious text than "Hail to the king, baby", in order to not make it seem like a gimmick. Taken this all into consideration, I still believe we're going to wield Frostmourne in game. Perhaps only to wield it against Arthas himself (Similar to the legendary items in the Kael'thas fight), or perhaps there'll be a questline to destroy the blade, but it seems silly to leave the sword out since it is such an important part of the lore. Lastly, you do realize that Arthas will not be able to be taken down by simply any kind of 25 man raid? The fight with him will be equally hard to taking down Kel'Thuzad when we were all level 60, and Illidan nowadays. [[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  15:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey man don't burst our bubble, we're all fantacising about having our very own Frostmourne on our Death Knight, don't go reminding us of that petty little problem of becoming hardcore raiders first. ~Peregrine


 * You can still have the Blade of the Archmage. Its model shows a striking similarity to Frostmourne in, well, especially this picture. You can roleplay that into your own copy of the fabled blade :P[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  16:11, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Blade of the Archmage only looks like Frostmourne if you're on a drug trip, lol. BotA is the Phantom Blade, brothers and sisters. No ifs, ands or buts about it. If you want a sword that looks like a runeblade, try Gressil, Dawn of Ruin or Widow's Remorse. Yes, I realize it's Naxx gear, but still! --Joshmaul 03:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Or better yet, The Hungering Cold. -- Dark T Zeratul 03:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah yeah, forgot about that one...isn't that the model they used for the Sword of a Thousand Truths in the South Park episode "Make Love, Not Warcraft"? --Joshmaul 18:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Top Page Banner
Gotta say, I love the banner at the top of the page, kudos to whoever deisgned/edited in that work of art. ~Peregrine
 * Oh, it was me hehe =PP You're welcome. I just thought it was too naked with just the logo so I combined the latter one with an icy wallpaper and voila . there you go ^^. Also found that game box on the internet... --  Shandris   talk / contribs  00:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Not Advertising
My link to the preorder site was not an effort to advertise, but an effort to help players find their way to preordering WotLK. ~Peregrine


 * Yeah that's what I thought, but pretty sure it is against policy in some way, or else there would be hundreds of links to various retailers. --Raze 03:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * People can search online, tbh. Especially since we're an international site, individual retailers would be over the top. 03:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

10-Man Raid Speculation
I've just noticed that while Blizzards has said they want to do a lot of 10-mans, no actual 10-man dungeons have been named. Did I miss an announcement about that? From the list of remaining dungeons without a player count, it wouldn't be too hard to start guessing which of them are to be 10-mans. Given the popularity of Kara, I'd say they'll make at least two 10-mans. Partly just by process of elimination, I'll bet they are Ulduar and Icecrown. Thoughts, comments, predictions? Did I miss any possible contenders? Is there room in Northrend for yet more unnamed dungeons? --Raze 02:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ulduar - No player count announced, and Blizzard has said they want this to be "big" and "epic". Since there are already plenty of 25-mans, good chance this will be a 10-man raid. (Potential to be packed with lore, like Kara. (Titans!))
 * Azjol'Nerub - No player count announced, though hard to imagine killing an Old God with only 10 players. Perhaps a 10-man wing separate from the Old God. There's potential for multiple wings here since the Scourge will be at war with the forgotten ones/surviving nerubians who serve the Old God.
 * Icecrown Citadel - No player count announced. Since Karazhan is by far the most popular raid dungeon. I'd say they'll include a 10-man wing in the dungeon that is the most significant in lore. Though I'm sure Lich King won't be killed in it, good chance he'll be present.
 * Grizzlemaw - Don't know much about this one. Is it interesting enough to support a long 10-man raid?
 * Dalaran - 10-man raid so close to home? Doesn't seem likely.
 * Unnamed Dungeon - There's also a chance of totally new unannounced dungeons, I'll stick that here as a possibility.


 * Blizzard has stated there is a 10 man in the old world they have not announced yet. Also Azjol'Nerub will contain several instances so there may be a 10 man in the zone also. Leviathon 13:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I missed that interview thanks. Hard to guess where it might be, except hopefully Karazhan 2 (the inverse), I found the first Kara not very satisfying in terms of lore. --Raze 01:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree about Icecrown. If the Lich King is going to be the final boss, then it's gonna be a 25, like BT. Ten people taking on the Lich King, period, is a little goofy (then again, 25 is kinda "You're kidding, right?"...at least IMHO). And you might be onto something about Ulduar - "big and epic", particularly that second word, generally means raid. *grin* As for your other points....Grizzlemaw's crawling with furbolgs, kinda doubt it will be a raid (though it might be, or it might be a winged instance with one). Azjol-Nerub...I think you're spot on there. And I think they said the instances in Dalaran would be like Stockades and RFC (which are 5-mans), but maybe it was more in reference to being an instance inside a city.


 * There are also a few other "points of interest" out there, such as the Riplash Ruins (Borean Tundra, nerubian ruins controlled by naga), the Temple of Storms (Storm Peaks, a Titan temple inhabited by giants), and the Wyrmrest Temple (Dragonblight, another Titan temple, this one taken over by the Blue Dragons and used as a meeting place for all the dragonflights). --Joshmaul 18:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The Riplash ruins are labeled as a regular mob camp on the map. It seems they are going for the same thing they did with TBC with every zone but 1 having a instance. Figuring it will be like this. We know that there will be just as many 5 mans with WotLK as there was for TBC so areas like Ulduar will probably be winged.


 *  Borean Tundra - The Nexus with 2 5 man wings one for level 60 the other for level 70 with a 25 man raid.


 *  Howling Fjord - Utgarde Keep - 2 5 man wings one for level 60 and the other for 70(have the feeling they unveil a raid wing later).


 *  Grizzly Hills - Blizzard said Grizzlemaw but on the map from Blizzcon Grizzlemaw isn't marked as a instance instead someplace in the northwest is. Too bad the picture isn't clearer. http://www.blizzplanet.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=220&pos=43


 *  Dragonblight - On the Blizzard map it showed Azjol'Nerub but now it is going to be a zone. Course with us fighting the Blue Dragons it's possible Wyrmrest Temple will be a instance instead.


 *  Azjol'Nerub - It will contain several instances and the one where we fight an Old God will for sure be a 25 man raid.


 *  Storm Peaks - Ulduar will be where we go there. And right now it looks like Crystalsong is a sub-zone of Storm Peaks so we will have another inactive Emerald Dream gate. Likely would be winged.


 *  Sholazar Basin - Who knows. Though I would guess if there is a instance it would deal with the Titans.


 *  Zul'Drak - Likely their capital of Gundrak and could be one of the other 10 mans.


 *  Icecrown Glacier - Icecrown Citadel which will obviously be a 25 man raid against the Lich King.


 * In the old world we have 1 unknown 10 man which may be Uldum or Grim Batol and the Caverns of Time instance. Leviathon 22:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure this's been mentioned elsewhere, but might the last one be the Dungeons of Dalaran? --Super Bhaal 02:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Yea Dalaran I would guess would contain a 5 man or 10 instance which would probably be the sewers from warcraft 3. Also now that I looked at it more the area on the Grizzly Hills map marked as a instance is Drak'Tharon Keep and with Grizzlemaw not being marked it makes me wonder if Blizzard meant to say Drak'Tharon instead of Grizzlemaw. But there is also a neutral town outside Grizzlemaw so possible there could be 2 instances in Grizzly Hills. Leviathon 03:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I kind of miss those epic 40 man Raids. Perhaps Malygos or Arthas will be 40 man. --Invin Dranoel 08:34, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * They are sticking with the 25 man format. Leviathon 17:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As a veteran of 40-man raiding (MC and BWL), the problem with running a 40-man is getting a solid-enough group. Even if your guild is large and well-classed, sometimes pulling off a 40-man is hard. That, and that's a LOT of people to have in one spot; even on good computers, it might be a tad on the laggy side. The idea behind 25-mans, it seems to me, is to sorta reduce the latency headache, and make it possible to get a decent group to run the instance. That's just my thought on it, though, as I haven't been in any BC raid bigger than Karazhan. Yet. --Joshmaul 12:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've got a 20 dollar bet going with a fellow WoW player that we're going to be seeing some version of Muradin in the expansion, as a raid boss or a 5 man boss.- Actionham 11-30-07

Hinting at EARLY 2008 Release?
This is from DeathKnight.info, reposting a news story from Curse:

''From a Danish forum I was able to obtain info regarding the marketing concerned with the release of the next WoW expansion. Alledgely someone involved in making banner commercials for large portals on the internet has been approached by Blizz marketing who wants them to have something ready to be posted from Nov. 1st this year and last until x-mas this year.''  Accordingly this should mean that they plan to release the game no later than feb. 2008 and posibly even for x-mas.

I hope you guys are as excited about this news as I am :)

The article I'm linking to is in Danish unfortunately, but this does not change that the OP of the page is giving a 1st hand account of this "news".

/hugs

Edit: English Translation Added - Nimloth

I have a friend who works in a media agency that handles banner advertisements for various larger portals in Denmark.

He has informed me that they have gotten an inquery regarding the launch of WotLK in Denmark and running advertisements on Danish sites from the 1st of November until December 24th.

He also says that the expansion is slated to be in store shelves somewhere close to Christmas 2007, with the latest release as late as February 2008.

''Personally, I think that this is pretty fast considering It hasnt even been a year since Burning Crusade was launched. But who knows, money makes the world go around and the christmas sales revenue is something everyone wants a piece of!''

''March 5/08? I'v just recieved from Amazon that i bought it that was sapose to reach at 16 january, but they said the date was Incorrect, and is now 6 march, it may be possible that this is the FINAL date, But at www.amazon.com it says 26 i think at November, Means that may be that It will be out at 26 november ,since at www.amazon.co.uk, it says that it may be not the date, but at .com it says That its the final date. so it dosent come at 09, it will cme at november 08 or sooner''

I think the emphasis is on "allegedly". As much as I'd like to believe this...not likely. --Joshmaul 22:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess would be early 2009, giving it about the same timeframe as the Burning Crusade (announced BlizzCon 2005, released January 2007). -- Dark T Zeratul 22:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is one theory, posted on the DK.info forums:


 * September - 2.2 - voice chat goes live. 2.4 testing starts with pre-mades.
 * October - 2.3 released Zul'Aman goes alive, 2.4 testing continues, most kinks worked out.
 * November - mid November 2.4 is released Blizz starts streaming out WLK news and reports.
 * December - Sunwell and ZA
 * January - Sunwell and ZA
 * February - Sunwell and ZA, possible WLK release (I'd say 30-40%)
 * March - Sunwell and ZA, most likely WLK release (60-70%)


 * And Blizzard is trying for the "one expansion per year" goal. They may have said at BlizzCon or Leipzig that it was only 10% done - but considering how often Blizz has said one thing and done another in the past (Ashbringer is a very good example of this)... --Joshmaul 23:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I would go with the next expansion being out near fall next year at the earliest. Leviathon 02:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing they'll tell us they're aiming for an "after christmas" release date, then at the last second spring a late december release date. Then we'll be so caught up the euphoria of "whooooo, WotLK is OUT!!" and go and buy it, we'll be even less likely to stop and wait until it's cheaper to buy it. Blizzard are shrewd business-people :) ~Peregrine

I really hope they release next Christmas. I'd rather they delay release in old Blizzard fasion to ensure it is 100% ready, especially with the addition of a new class. Working out how DKs will work in PvP and Raids/Groups, balancing out the other classes with respect to the DK. Not to mention trying to make instances fun instead of getting repetitive. --Invin Dranoel 08:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The note that the expected release date of November 2008 as cited by GameStop should be removed. According to GameStop's website:

"Official price and release date have NOT been announced by Blizzard. In this case, the price and release date were determined by the GameStop e-commerce staff, (comprised of overpowered warlocks), using a combination of 6 and 20-sided die." http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&product_id=647156

Can we please pull this info down from the page as to avoid confusing people? They're just goofing around, folks!!!--Thescale99 13:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * *sigh* Please. If they wanted to determine the release date, they should have rolled 2d12, and not a bunch of d6s and d20s! --Super Bhaal 15:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * heh - thanks, man! (2d12...you nut)


 * At this point I sincerely doubt we'll see WotLK any time soon. 2.3 was just released and they're making minor patches to that as we go with 2.3.2 on the PTR at the moment, the possibility of more patches to it in the near future, and no word of 2.4 hitting the PTR soon. Some major patches have had as many as 12 minor patches made to them so the idea that 2.4 will come immediately after 2.3.2 is unwise to assume. My guess is that 2.4 will go live in either December or January. With Zul'Aman just recently arriving and Sunwell Plateau still yet to come, I don't believe Blizzard will release two raid dungeons and then give us higher level content one or two months later that would make the raids obsolete. Even hardcore raid guilds need considerable time to figure out new dungeons. Most guilds have yet to even hit SSC let alone work themselves up to the Sunwell. Let's also not forget that we still know next to nothing about the expansion. Blizzard has said nothing about any projected release dates, we have no idea what changes the expansion will bring to the classes other than certainly getting new ranks for current abilities, no idea how the Death Knight will work, no real information on the new profession, and the zones haven't even come close to being fleshed out. We don't even know all that much about the starting zones. Spring or Fall seem to be the ideal time frames for big releases so by my argument Spring is out of the question. I say don't get your hopes up. In all likelihood, we won't be rolling Death Knights until this time next year.--Varteras 22:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

The wandering lich
Looking carefully at the trailer video again and again... It seems that is, in some NPC city/encampment a Lich that walks (floats?) freely along the roads, and is overtaken by a warlock on his mount without aggroing. Also the NPCs look somehow undead, and there's an encaged dwarf (or so it seems) behind one of the NPCs. Would that mean that we'll see, first time ever, a Lich that is friendly to player characters in WoW? Would that be related to the DK starting zones, or to a possibly Forsaken-aligned Lich?-- K )  (talk) 16:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It looked like a Vrykul mob camp to me. Leviathon 17:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Aye, that's what it must have been... a non-hostile servant of the Lich King? Come now. Blizzard may suck at class balance but at least they're not stupid to boot, the undead are PURE EVIL because Arthas, who dominates them, is PURE EVIL. ~Peregrine

╔╗╔═╦╗You sure didn't want to say that the 'Undead' are pure evil and all servants of the Lich King... Liches are Necromancers, as are some Forsaken.-- K )  (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC) ║╚╣║║╚╗ ╚═╩═╩═╝


 * There are Liches that do not serve the Lich King such as the one in Tirisfal Glades that camp just looked a lot like a Vrykul camp since you can see Vrykul standing around. Leviathon 19:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I didn't recognize the Vrykuls. And anyway, I'm absolutely sure that a player warlock is seen in the camp without being attacked at all!-- K )  (talk) 22:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a Vrykul riding a horse you can tell since his skin matches that of the other Vrykul around him. Leviathon 02:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it's a Vrykul rider on a demonic steed. I believe the Vrykul have been affected by Arthas as well. --  Shandris   talk / contribs  08:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC)



Well, the info does say that the Vrykul "serve the Lich King furiously"... --Joshmaul 11:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, I still doubt these are Vrykuls (they're not very tall and they don't wear any Viking-like gear).-- K )  (talk) 13:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you look at the Vrykul in most the the movies they are not wearing any armor such as the one in that same trailer they show in the burning forest area. Since this is a early build they probably do not have the armor ready yet for them. Leviathon 16:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's wait and see, but they're still very small.-- K )  (talk) 19:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Small compared to what? The Lich could easily be very large. Can also tell it's a Vrykul camp due to the architecture around them. Leviathon 19:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Small compared to the architecture (bridge, cages) as well as the horse mount.-- K )  (talk) 19:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well Vrykul architecture is massive just look at how big Utgarde Keep is behind Valgarde. Course all the arguing and proof in the world won't seem to make you stop wanting to believe it is something else. Leviathon 20:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say the Vrykul were probably about twice the height of my human character. I didn't get too close and personal cause they were actually quite tough :P 20:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This early sketch has a size compairison.-- 20:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)




 * Leviathon, don't you think you're being a little rude? I'm still looking for some proof that this is a Vrykul camp, and be sure that I don't have any 'beliefs' about WoW (it would be real dumb, as it is a fictional universe). The architecture indeed looks Norse, and I think this needs some explanation.-- K )  (talk) 12:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * From someone who played the Blizzcon alpha: yes, they're Vrykul. 16:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * All right, now that's proof =). Funny to see a Vrykul riding a demonic steed though.-- K )  (talk) 17:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Come now, Dreadlords ride Dreadsteeds, and Dreadlords are often quite big (though why a guy with wings would need a flaming, spiky horse is beyond me). They actually come in a few varieties in terms of size - Varimathras is kinda small but still taller than most mortals, while Balnazzar is HUGE. Liches also have different sizes - Araj is kinda small, Kel'Thuzad is huge...catch my drift? I think it stands to reason that perhaps Vrykul could come in different sizes too...all taller than we "mere mortals", but even giants have runts, know what I mean? --Joshmaul 19:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I wasn't talking about the size here, but the likeliness of having an undead Viking ride a demonic horse.-- K )  (talk) 21:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Prince Keleseth is a confirmed warlock.-- 21:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Aw, nice... I can hardly wait to see those famous Vrykuls who can truly do anything :D-- K )  (talk) 22:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Vrykul paladins! *ahem* What? --Joshmaul 05:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't surprise me, 'lol Arthas taught them'-- K )  (talk) 14:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I suppose holy magic has been used by evil before... --Joshmaul 13:05, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, just because there's a road there doesn't mean it HAS to be safe. Could be a road through a camp. Blackhawk003 00:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The Scarlet Crusade isn't evil. Just mislead. --Invin Dranoel 08:27, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In the SC's case, I define their evil as the result of being transformed from a group of Light-fearing individuals seeking to reclaim Lordaeron into a group of paranoid murdering zealots. But that's a discussion for another time, I think...--Joshmaul 12:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a Vrykul warock. But in the trailer I first saw, the paladin and mage were riding through what looks ike the same road, and the mage had a lvl 40 horse so the mobs couldn't have been that fast, or maybe the didn't realize they were there yet.


 * Was it a Mage? I thought it was a Priest. Maybe I'm getting my armor sets mixed up. ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 01:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

No, it wss probably me who's wrong, you're 70 I'm not.

Faster experience from 20-60
This sounds nice for me with my slow levelling lots of characters, but I'm wondering about some side issues:

Some professions, such as blacksmithing with mining, seem to require extra farming in order to keep up in terms of levels. I'm guessing not, but it would be nice to have easier material gathering for these types of professions, so that characters levelling up can keep up their profession levels as well.

The second issue is hunter pets, ifaster levelling seems like it might put hunter pets behind the hunters in some situations (hunters that quest a lot, hunters with two pets.) This may get dealt with already if pet experience to level is based off hunter experience to level, but it does seem like something to balance out when this change gets introduced.Minionman 20:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am of the opinion that when farming ore veins in the world, you should get more than one frickin' point for mining it. Even when it's orange, you still only get one point of mining out of it. What kind of nonsense is that?


 * And as a guy with a few alts between 10 and 45 (lowest to highest, heh), I'd be glad to actually DO something with these guys, heh... --Joshmaul 19:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally don't usually have problems levelling mining, though I can see how it would cause problems with some characters depending on where they go. The bigger issue for me is things like blacksmithing or jewelcrafting, where to get the minerals for levelling those professions, several rounds of farming are needed to get the materials (Or 3-4 miners or so would be needed to gather materials in a more casual way per blacksmith).  If the levelling rate is increased, the farming needed for these professions might reduce a lot of the time advantage that the faster levelling gives.Minionman 04:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Try Enchanting. srsly. --Sky (t · c · w) 08:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't get me started. --Joshmaul 12:15, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Forest Song
Has anything been said about updates to Forest Song? It looks like they're trying to build a new Draenei city there.. will that be expanded in the expansion? If so, what will be done with the Exodar and Azuremyst Isle? For that matter, what kind of changes would be added to make Blood Elves more accessible? Alterac Mountains? --Vidihawk 16:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It was just added to give alliance some more quests to do at the 29-31 range. Leviathon 17:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not really draenic to me I think, still more Night Elven. Apollozeus writes on his page: Let the draenei at Forest Song complete the building they're making. I've got my hopes up for a beautiful temple :).... --  Shandris   talk / contribs  21:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Was Grizzlemaw Officially confirmed as a dungeon
Does someone know where it was confirmed by Blizzard that Grizzlemaw will be a dungeon, if it was confirmed by Blizzard can someone put a link where it was confirmed, and if it wasn't confirmed then it shude be moved to the Speculated instance content section. Zakolj 18:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It was never specifically stated to be a dungeon by Blizzard as far as I can tell just a lot of news sites seemed to draw conclusions to it being a dungeon from when Grizzly Hills was shown(such as gamestop saying it's a dungeon but not once in the video they got the info from is it said to be). On Blizzards concept map Drak'tharon Keep is marked as a dungeon instead with Grizzlemaw as a mob camp with a neutral town outside. Leviathon 19:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Then I will move Grizzlemaw and add Drak'tharon Keep to the Speculated instance content and move it back if it is confirmed by Blizzard. Zakolj 19:46, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Deathwing? GASP
Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that in the Wrath trailer, the dragon that the paladin looks up and sees flying overhead look distinctly black? Could Deathwing finally make his appearance in the up and coming xpac? ~Peregrine


 * It was a Proto Dragon which the Vrykul use. Leviathon 20:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Bah, I still say he looked very much like the black dragon model from the WoW MV. ~Peregrine

I doubt we will be able to fight two aspects in the same expansion, Malygos is enough. If we are ever to fight Deathwing, it will probably be in a future expansion.--Odolwa 16:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I wasn't implying that we would fight him... but perhaps the truth is finally revealed. I mean, we see (ok, well, hear) Arthas in naxx pre-BC, but that didn't make him killable. ~Peregrine - Master Chief FTW! 15:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Considering we were basically told he was still alive, in that Netherwing questing area, by whats her name...its possible more story would be added in this xpak, even if we don't see him. Coobra 04:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "It was a Proto Dragon which the Vrykul use."


 * The Proto Dragons are white. This winged fellow was Black. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 05:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I looked at the trailer again and paused at that part and it seemed the dragon had a rider. So more than likely it is a Proto Dragon with a Vrykul rider but since the only white textured dragons right now are drakes they just used a black dragon for the trailer. Leviathon 05:30, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Or it could just be yet another black dragon and bear no relation to Deathwing. -- Dark T Zeratul 06:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Or it could be a dragon mount, Valgarde's article I though used to say something about player's might get one.  Mr.X8  <font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk <font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs  18:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Games for Windows Magazine
While the info in it was released a bit ago someone actually took the time to scan the article and put it in PDF format here: http://www.sportbikewiki.com/wotlk/wotlk.pdf Least now info from the magazine can be cited. Leviathon 23:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Old info...In the beginning of of the month one just had to google "games.for.windows.september.2007" and be able to download the pdf from multiple sites. --  Shandris  <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #444444; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:85%;"> <font color="#1cb1cc">talk / <font color="#7ac7b6">contribs  08:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Note, full page scans of magazines are a breach of copyright, and we cannot link to them on articles. We can, of course, still cite the info. 17:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

My beef with launch mob articles.
I just want to make sure this does not turn into another TBC 'mob versus creature lore' launch fiasco early. There are Ghouls in Westfall, Felguards in Ashenvale, ect literally named that. You do not see the pages on them specifically on that Mob, because that is the name of the overall creature type. But look at Fel reaver, that is still a prime example. It still (like many other articles did) mostly looks like it is only found on HFP (It is by that specific name though). People who favor game play over lore say it is fine, but I do not. I have made this complaint on a few talk pages before to little avail. I am just asking: when WotLK comes out and there is a new type of monster in one of the first zones and the same thing appears elsewhere with a different name, make a Whatever page for the whole species and a Whatever (Mob) page for the one type of the species named that. Please.-- 19:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * After much consideration, I relize that this is a wiki and I should fix any articles that I see as wrong myself...-- 20:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Concept Art section messed up
The descriptions don't match the art. Also, I seem to recall there being more artwork before. Suzaku 01:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed. This is unfortuntely what happens when people overcomplicate galleries. :/ I really dislike the gallery template. 02:10, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Then make not look like ass. It uses less than half of my screen.   05:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Requesting Protection
This page is getting heavily vandalized by advertising bots. I think the it has to be protected, since they restore their vanadlized revisions within minutes. CHiMer 23:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

5/08
On wikipedia it says the expansion is expected to come out no later then April '08.
 * A.) Is this true?
 * B.)Where did they get that from if it's true?

I am awhere that Wikipedia can be vandalized by anyone.


 * If the information on Wikipedia is not "cited" (or "sourced", so you want), you do not need to consider it.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  08:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That quite apart from it being somewhat false in any case. The alpha and beta periods have still got to run, so towards the second half of 2008 is more likely. 06:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, assuming patch 2.4 comes out in December, I don't think they would leave WoW without new raid content for over six months. -- Raze 06:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * They did before. Naxx came out in June of '06, TBC in January of '07.  I'll have to agree with Kirkburn's guess. --Maenos 21:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

5 November Vandalization
How do we stop this guy who creates new accounts and just keeps vandalizing the page? --  Shandris  <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #444444; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:85%;"> <font color="#1cb1cc">talk / <font color="#7ac7b6">contribs  19:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It is being worked on. -- 19:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure you can ban an IP address... of course maybe that's wikipedia, I'm not sure. ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 20:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Heh, yeah, more to it however. As said before, it is being worked on, can't have instant results. -- 20:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you lock a page in Wikipedia, unregistered and newly created accounts won't be able to edit the page. --  Shandris  <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #444444; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:85%;"> <font color="#1cb1cc">talk / <font color="#7ac7b6">contribs  20:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, that seems to be the best option... though I do acknowledge that it takes more than just pushing a button.


 * By the way, what ARE the vandalizations? ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Making every link an external one to [redacted], a site that is about exploiting WoW.-- 01:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps not even mentioning the name would eb a good idea? :) 03:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, my apologies, perhaps we should delete that little bit there :) I don't think anybody here would go to that site, but if this falls into the wrong hands... *cue dramatic lightning and evil laugh fading into the background*


 * Yeah. That. ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 00:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hero class
A blue post on the forms (awile back) said tehy where Thinking to release 1 heroclass Per X-pack. here--Dragoon478 21:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh, and some people thought Blizzard was going to stop producing xpaks after northrend. I'd be crazy to stop this cash cow. 04:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

If there is another Xpack, but to tell you the truth i doubt it. Almost everything is inlcluding - Northrend, Outland, Kalimdor, Azeroth. All that is left is a few islands between Kalimdor and Azeroth and some areas from Azeroth as well: Tel Abim, Kezan, Zandalar (has to be included for sure), Plunder isle, Broken isles (maybe we could fight Sargeras's spirit or something :P ), Kul Tiras (i have no idea why isn't it included yet), also the areas above Stormwind, east of Grim Batol and not to forget one of the most interesting places in the game - Gilneas. Maybe the new xpack will be called "Nazjatar's awakening", because the naga's capital is still not included :) . --Grievous 19:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't forget Undermine, the Elemental Plane, Emerald Dream, possibly the Dark Below, Queen Azshara has yet to be killed, and then last but not least, the very last xpak to be produced, in which all that will be changed is all of Azeroth to allow flight =P 20:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I heard a rumor - not sure where - that the sealed-off portals in Outland might also be reopened and used as a potential point to, say, travel to other worlds. Maybe explore Argus, the old eredar homeworld - that is, if there's anything left of it. Might be kinda odd, but just throwin' it out there. --Joshmaul 05:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I only recall seeing 2 other portals in outlands (not counting the main one). .. The one in Zangermarsh, and the one with 8 warlocks doing something to the one in Nagrand. Since both are used for quests... not sure if those would become active for transportation reasons. 05:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There could be an expansion including the whole South Seas - there is about 10 areas or so, and in both expansions there has been (and will be) about 10 areas included. Howver, I really doubt, whether Undermine requires a whole expansion. It´s just a huge goblin city, nothing more.
 * And I´m also not sure about the other worlds. Blizzard still has the other side of Azeroth, the remaining shards of Draenor and maybe undergroung Azeroth too. It is unprobable, that other worlds will be included into WoW. There is just too much space! Maybe, if there will be something like WoW2, but that´s the question for next 10 years, if not more... Naze 09:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Who says Azeroth has to even have land on the other side of the planet...may I remind you of Pangaea. As for Undermine, it's more than just one city...it's a located on huge Island (Kezan), and while I agree a whole xpak dedicated to just undermine won't happen, it will likely be added as part of another. 20:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

About the Factions
Do we have any idea which one's of these one can gain favor with? Meneldir

We have a mix of speculation and BlizzCon info here.-- 02:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing the Kirin Tor will be involved with Dalaran, and you can bet that there will be some form of the Argent Dawn in Northrend. --User:Zentyr


 * The Argent Dawn presence will probably be similar to the story of the Cenarion Circle/ Cenarion Expedition.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  09:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've got 50g on "Argent Crusaders". ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 21:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the Northrend AD will merge with the Silver Hand. Do not forget the failed Scarlet Expedition also.-- 21:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The Scarlet Crusade will most likely play some sort of role as well. -User:Zentyr

Many of the local races would surely be included and about the scarlet crusade - they rock! I absolutely love the Ashbringer's story and it's ending :) .--Grievous 19:24, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Unused art
Why were these thrown out? Are they Fake or Stupid? By thrown out I mean unused.-- 20:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

<Gallery> Image:Wotlkunkconc.jpg Image:Wotlkunkconc2.jpg Image:Utgardeconc1.jpg </Gallery>

Fake? Stupid? Hardly. That last one looks quite a bit like pictures Blizzard has shown of Utgarde Keep, the first instance in Northrend. No, not fake. I have no idea why they weren't used. Zentyr 19:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Well the new look to Utgarde is similar, but i guess they desided less ice would be more appropriate for the vrykul. --Grievous 19:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The last is an early concept art of the Great Forge in Utgarde Catacombs --N&#39;Nanz 22:16, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Entering Northrend
Does anybody know how and in what zone we will be able to enter Northrend?
 * Its stated in many places. Zep for horde, boat for alliance. Far west zone and far east zone. PS Don't forget to sign your posts. 04:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Apparently at BlizzCon ( I don't know for myself, I didn't go) the Alliance got to Northrend by a boat and the Undercity zeppelin was rerouted for the Horde. I'm guessing the Alliance will be using the docked boat at Menethil Harbor. Currently it just sits there, doing nothing. Zentyr 22:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Or perhaps another port will be established, if you look closely at the differences between the first map and the WotLK map, you'll notice an additional peninsula seems to have suddenly sprouted off the coast of Dun Morogh. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 23:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * See Talk:World_of_Warcraft:_Wrath_of_the_Lich_King. 00:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess, that Northrend will not be joined only with the old Azeroth (form original WoW), but also with Outland (possibly through another Portal leading from Dalaran to Death´s Door - this is quite probable, because in Dalaran is the portal opened by Kel´Thuzad and through which Kael´Thas entered Outland, and Death´s Door is the only functional portal except of the Dark Portal), but also to Azuremyst Isle (another boat from Valaar´s Berth) and Eversong Woods (maybe by a boat from Sunsail Anchorage) Naze 18:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

For the Alliance Theramore and Menethil will likely be used as harbors for the boats. For the Horde we know Undercity's tower will be used for the Forsaken town in Howling Fjord and Orgrimmar will likely have its zeppelin tower expanded upon for one to Warsong Hold. Also the Deaths Door just like the other 2 portals in Outland will be used as Legion worlds as brought up by Metzen at Blizzcon and would be something they add in before WotLK (if they find the expansions taking too long) or with WotLK. Dalaran and Shattrath will likely have portals to each other though. Leviathon 02:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Remeber the Shimmering Portal that Archimonde came through? That connected Dalaran to Outland...-- 02:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I doubt Dalaran's mages would be that stupid as to keep a portal which made one of the most strongest demons enter their world. I think they know that this would bring them more trouble. A portal between Shattrath and Dalaran would be much more reasonable. And since Dalaran is moving to Northrend isn't the portal supposed to stay where Dalaran used to be :/ ?--Grievous 19:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Airports and Landing Strips
Well. not sure if anyone agrees with me, but i think its a given that Dun Morough airport will be Accessable (not by rock climbing) and used as a method to get to Northrend.

Reason? well the Airstrip aims north, so thats 1 reason. but also theres airstrips on Northrend and namely "Gotta have a Gnome Town" 

Anyone else think this? or has this been discussed already and im too late?--KingStoph 12:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it's already confirmed that you arrive by boat. -- Dark T Zeratul 12:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The airstrips are merely for looks...and direction of an airstrip means nothing. 19:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * They are NOW. but whats not to say it wont change with the Expansion? weve already seen a new island and a huge land mass appear with TBC --KingStoph 23:23, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That isle has always been then ...*cough* we just had no reason to explore it before. As for the land mass you refer to, I'm assuming you mean the Bloodelf area, That was always there too, just wasn't physically added in yet. Alliance travels in mass by ship. To be able to use the airstrips like you're wanting, would require bliz to design a gyroplane that can carry many players at once. There's actually quite a few airstrips throughout the game, but none of them will contain passenger transports, they are merely for looks... or small quests. 23:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Where are the other ones? And they could work in the same way as Flight paths. but ya have to do the whole map thing half way --KingStoph 21:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There are some landing pads...-- 21:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

There's Landing pads throughout Azeroth (Barrens, stonetalon Mtns, Azshara, Blasted Lands, some others). As for landing strips, there's one in Shadowmoon Valley (Netherwing Ledge), the one on top of IF, the one in Northrend.....hmm...well, its not important...FPs using gryphons to travel between the two won't happen, it's far too great a distance. So for them to be connected, the Alliance will either have to start using the goblins zeps, or create an Alliance airship. 22:28, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Lawls, what i ment was make use of all them planes at Dun Morough airport. Gnomish/Dwarf Enguinering (lolspelling) could be used. Or Goblin if ya feel the need for Danger XD --KingStoph 13:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

DeathKnights are 3rd Faction?
Ive been thinking, would being a Deathknight kinda make a 3rd Faction under the rule of Arthas? coz all DeathKnights are kinda servents of the Lich King, and Arthas wouldnt realy let Deathknights PWN Eachother (Human DK VS Orc DK and such).

So would cros faction deathknights be allied?--KingStoph 15:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you even read the article? These Death Knights will no longer be under the control of the Lich King, they have broken free and joined wither the Horde or the Alliance. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 15:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That i did not. i mainly just read Lore, i know little bout the expansion except i wanna go see the Tuskarr--KingStoph 22:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer it if the Death Knights were there own faction. BUT Blizzard must get up and change alot of stuff in the game to allow it. My opinion is that they are going to follow the Allience and the faction whom's name makes it sound larger than it is. (as a horde should be larger than The Horde.) --The last Alterac 09:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

November?

 * Hey, I was just on Amazon.com, and I found that you can pre-order WoTLK, and it is apparently coming out on November 30th....does anyone know if this is true, or if Blzzard EVER said anything about this? Aliron 03:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Retailers must come up with a date in order to put presales up for sale. Unless Blizz actually says something (which they haven't), take any and all dates you see with the requisite grain of salt. -- k _d3 03:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Aliron 16:16, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * According to this news entry on blizzard.com, WotLK surely can't be excepted before July. I think this narrows down the timeframe quite well for now. --Zelgadis 05:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)