Talk:Flame Leviathan

Flame Leviathan's image
The current image is horribly inaccurate. In the Under Development article, the Flame Leviathan is quite clearly described as a Voltron, ehm, V0-L7R-0N tank. The current picture is of a fire giant.  Xavius, the Satyr Lord  08:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, and that's the same for Hodir, we speculate that it's him, Blizz never said it. Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 08:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes I think it's a construct thus maybe the only non giant releted picture released should be it. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 11:01, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Another thing: in the article as it is now, "chopper" redirects to the Gnomish Bomber. The Bomber not being a helicopter aside, I think "chopper" is more likely to refer to a motorcycle (land-based like the others, special ability is leaving pools of tar, and the preview says "chopper drivers", not "chopper pilots"). 13:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It could go either way. Eye of Eternity set the precedent for having flying vehicles in a raid, so the "Chopper" might be a helicopter.  I agree that it shouldn't redirect to the bomber though, maybe the Flying Machine would be a better choice, just as a temporary thing.NYET! (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and was bold; changed the Race from Fire Giant to V0-L7R-0N, and the type from Giant to Mechanical. NYET! (talk)


 * "Once you've plowed through the innumerable ranks of the iron army, you will be confronted by an enormous tank. Mimiron built the Flame Leviathan as part of the V0-L7R-0N weapons platform, and as a result, this tank packs quite a punch."

Honestly i'm not sure that classifies as a "race" in the strictest sense of the word. It also sounds like the tank is part of series of weapons being invented for the Voltron weapons platform. The flame leviathan is just one variation. Honestly we need something for infobox for technology that doesn't make vehicles or machines sound like they are "races". We don't call dwarven steam tanks races do we?Baggins (talk) 15:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Where is this "dwarven steam tank" with npcbox? 22:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The more I read it, the more it sounds like the picture can't possibly be the Flame Leviathan. The description is of a tank, and the picture is probably the end result of Mimiron's V0L7R0N platform. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that the first part of the raid will be a siege through a bunch of Irons, followed by the Flame Leviathan/Towers encounter, followed by more sieging, followed by other pieces of the Voltron technology, ad nauseum, culminating in the pictured boss, V0L7R0N itself. Just my two copper. NYET! (talk)

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/flameleviathan.jpg 10:56, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Effectiveness of the vehicle
Hello:) I am new to this site, well not to the site but actually posting on it is new to me:) On Flame Leviathan it says "Unlike other vehicles, the effectiveness of the vehicle is increased by the controller's gear." This is referenced to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15198911238&postId=1&pageNo=1&sid=1#6 (so sorry, but I am not sure on how to link) where Daelo states : "Actually, the effectiveness of the vehicles in the Flame Leviathan fight changes depending on the quality of the gear. So someone in full Naxxramas epics (or Ulduar epics!) will have an easier time than someone in greens."


 * This makes me wonder, is the easiness of the fight dependent on the ilevel of items, or on the stats? As some items might be overbudgeted, this could be worth knowing:)--Farcaster (talk) 15:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)Farcaster


 * It's based on iLevel, and I *THINK* it only affects vehicle hp, not damage. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ty. If you know this for certain it might be worth adding to the page:)--Farcaster (talk) 06:52, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Farcaster


 * I've added a section at the top of Strategy, labelled "Gearing" explaining how this calculation works. My own testing has confirmed the gear slots that contribute to the modifier and that the average is unweighted. If this turns out to be untrue, please correct the text. Questions to be answered:
 * What's the exact penalty for Rare and Uncommon items? My brief experiments came up showing a blue 200 as having value equivalent to an epic 183-185. Some addons in use at this time have chosen the arbitrary values of -13 and -26 as the respective penalties for Rare and Uncommon items.
 * I remember reading that an average difference of 13 ilvls results in a 30% modifier, but I can't find the reference. Is this true? Is it additive or multiplicative? What happens when I have an average of 226?
 * More generally, what's the conversion formula from ilvl average to modifier? Is there a lower limit? Is there an upper limit?
 * If Blizzard continues to use this mechanic, then it would serve us well to create a page explaining the calculation and simply refer to that calculation from here. Rimefang (talk) 06:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Demolisher Passenger Ability Icons
I recently added in the abilities for the demolisher passenger, but I'm unsure how to add in the icons, so if anyone knows how to, please do so. Wadark (talk) 17:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Flame Leviathan Targeting
The strategy is most definitely wrong about only targeting the siege Engines. I ran the Boss fight last night twice and on the first one he targeted me in the Demolisher even though both Engines were up. Wiped us because I was to close and he just plowed me down. On the second attempt we kept both Demolishers at max range and again even with both Engines up I was targeted 3 times during the fight but survived by taring and stunning him. It doesn't seem to be based on aggro because according to recount I was only 4th on DPS and both Engines were double my DPS if not more. Also HP of the vehicles are Based on Gear because in lvl 200-213 (mostly 7.5 and Naxx gear) the HP for the Demolisher was sitting at around 630K. We did manage to down him the second time and it was pretty easy but all of us were mostly Naxx/7.5 gear. Didn't do any achievements just wanted to try it out but doing hard mode on this boss would probably make it more challenging.


 * That part has been touched since the first PTR test in which only Siege Engine where the target :)
 * Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 13:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Edited the strategy to include the new targeting. I haven't tested this fight since release so I can't say for sure, but it doesn't seem like the strategy will change much. If someone else has other information, please feel free to edit it (this is a wiki so you don't need my permission ~_^). If I think of anything over the next couple days I'll edit it in myself or I'll do an overhaul of it on Sunday after my guild does the fight and I can see the Live build for myself.
 * EDIT: Unless someone has a source to confirm that this behavior is "working as intended", this could very well be a bug. Several other boss fights have had bugs in them, so its a possibility. I'll keep an eye on MMO-champion and stuff and edit it back if things change. (and fixing my formatting fail)
 * wadark (talk) 14:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't want to edit it case it actually was a bug that hadn't been reported yet. I do hope it's a bug because the Demolisher has no way once the passenger has been launched to sprint away from the Leviathan.  Other than that everything else flowed like the strategy spells out.  One other discrepancy I recall was that the DPS/healers on the Leviathan claimed there were just 2 turrets on it.  Now it may be that there are 2 in 10 man and 4 in 25 man but we will be going back in later this week to do both 25 man and 10 man with some alts and I'll try and pay more attention.  Also want to jump into each vehicle naked to see how big a boost gear gives you in HP.
 * Corwinamber


 * Alright, I'm going to revert it back to the original strategy. I've been going over it, and I can't see why it would be intended to be that way because, as you said, there's no way for demolishers to sprint without a passenger, and as far as 10-man goes there are already a limited number of people. If something definite changes then we can edit it later. I'll also add in a bug section to document this to any potential readers. wadark (talk) 23:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is confirmed. It is working as intended.  He can target demolishers: http://wowraid.com/tracker/b7/t16417021826/current-ulduar-issues.html Ghunor 8:15pm, 15 April 2009 (MST)

I'm working right now, as we speak, on overhauling the strategy section to account for all the new information on live servers. It'll be posted a few minutes from the time of this post. Any feedback or changes would be welcome.

EDIT: I over-hauled the 10-man strategy and added a section for a 25-man strategy since there are more players available and things can be handled a little more loosely. I haven't yet written a strategy for the 25 man section so if anyone wants to, feel free. Also, if you don't think the section is necessary, feel free to remove it completely. Please respond here or just edit in any additions/corrections. Thanks. wadark (talk) 01:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Hard Mode Loot
With four different versions of hard mode based on how many towers you leave up, I'm confused as to how the loot works. I assume the loot is different based on the number of towers. I've heard rumors of different badges on the 10 man version, and more badges as you go. Does anyone have any details we can add to the front page? --ObiChad (talk) 22:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Generally speaking, when you're dealing with a multi-part hard mode (i.e. Flame Leviathan, Freya, or Sartharion) there is a single loot table for when hard mode is activated and you get additional pieces from that table when you leave more of the hard mode activated. For instance, Sartharion has ONE hard mode loot table with like 6 items on it. When you kill sarth with 1 drake up, you get 1 item from that table, if you do it with 2 drakes, you get 2 items from that table. I don't know for sure regarding flame leviathan since I haven't personally tested it, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption that it works the same way- Leaving one tower up will get you one item from the table, 2 towers will get you 2 items etc.
 * P.S. Please sign your posts with 4 tildes (~) at the end. wadark (talk) 17:42, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If I recall, Sarth 1 drake gives you extra item from one table, while Sarth 2 gives you extra loot from a different table. Also, since Sarth was the only muti-stage hardmode encounter, there's nothing to say FL will work the same way or different. I get the theory, what I'm looking for is data from what actually happens. (ETA see this forum discussion for some fresh data http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=16474148432&ST=US-543325-pbWbjsiYkBmm7vgvmnqWSap9PBbpvkam6KO) --ObiChad (talk) 22:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, this site http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22437&sid=1a5b0c141435fc58711808cff2018855&start=15 is saying - 1x = +1 Conquest (or Conquest instead of Valor); 2x = extra loot; 3x = +1 Conquest; 4x = extra loot is higher level --ObiChad (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I don't know where I got the info that I posted here before. Sarth does have separate loot tables for multiple drakes. So disregard that stuff I said before, its wrong. wadark (talk) 06:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there any chance the iLvLs can be included in the loot tables for both normal and hard mode? Netmonkey (talk) 18:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

On normal difficulty: One tower awards two emblems of conquest. Two towers award a runed orb and a recipe (not sure if the recipe is guaranteed). I don't know about three or four towers. --Dulkal (talk) 16:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And only one of the two emblems of conquests counts for the 1000 emblems achievement...
 * 16:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Just defeated 25-man with two towers up. It dropped normal loot, a stack of one runed orb, a stack of two runed orbs (3 orbs total), and no recipe.  I updated the page to reflect this.  I'm assuming that 25-man with 2+ towers awards two bonus orbs, since I've never seen a stack of two of them before. Please fix if you've ever seen just one orb but 2+ towers left up.  Kathucka (talk) 18:34, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Formatting
If you have comments about the use of Text in this article, since it was the pilot in the mainspace, please post them here. Thanks! -Howbizr (talk) 22:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Cycle parts from salvage?
I heard a rumor from one of my Alliance guildies that engineers can potentially get parts to the motorcycle from salvaging FL. Can anyone confirm? --Joshmaul (talk) 17:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, both Flame Leviathan and XT have a small chance to give cycle parts when you salvage them. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:08, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But not enough information is available on whether the salvage changes between 10/25, or "hard-mode-ness". --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 06:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it's identical. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Would love to have enough datapoints to estimate salvage drop rates and ranges. Would love to have the emblems from those runs, too... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Loot after 3.3.0 (10 man/25 man, normal/heroic)
As you know, all drops of Emblem of Conquest have been converted to drops of Emblem of Triumph in patch 3.3.0. But there is still a lot unclear about the loot drops from the Flame Leviathan. The current page gives drop lists for 10 man and 25 man that suggest that the number of Runed Orbs and Recipes are fixed for each number of towers still active. Other sources (in particular a Wowhead comment by Vashar on 07/16/2009, patch 3.1.3) suggest that there is even a chance for 1 Runed Orb at 0 towers, and a chance of multiple Orbs with 3 or 4 towers. With the chance for emblems in patch 3.3.0, I wonder what else has changed.

What we need is some solid data on what items drop for the different numbers of towers in 10 and 25 man raids. Please keep accurate track of your experiences, and post the data here. After a while we can collate the data into the main page. Suggested format: etcetera.
 * 10 man (H), 2 towers: 1x Runed Orb, 1x Recipe
 * 25 man (N), 1 towers: no extras

--Hops Splurt (talk) 23:41, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is always a CHANCE for a runed orb and/or recipe from any boss; the towers on Flame Leviathan simply increase your chances and give a chance of getting multiple orbs instead of just one. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:49, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good. Than all that remains is getting an estimate (expectation value) of the chance an Orb or a Recipe drops for each number of towers.--Hops Splurt (talk) 12:58, March 3, 2010 (UTC)