Template talk:Main characters

Aspects
Why aren't characters such as the remaining Aspects on here? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:35, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

They were not technically in-game, therefore not main characters.-- 20:38, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Adding
Can I add High Tinker Gelbin Mekkatorque to the list?-Airiph 16:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Mmmm... I'd have to say no. He has no established lore prior to his introduction in WoW. --Sky (t · c · w) 16:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok.-Airiph 16:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Template intention
Yeah, er, it was a bit of a mistake when I created this template, as I was originally going to make it just WC3 characters, but that was a silly (and somewhat unworkable) restriction. I would say that the best idea for this is that it covers all Warcraft characters with major game roles, and that the name is changed. Thoughts? 22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Align
Was there a reason it was left aligned rather than kept centered? 06:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was bored, and wanted it to look a little bit more like wikipedia's navboxes. Speaking of which, I need to finish skinning navbox. Sigh. --Sky (t | c | w ) 06:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL, well have fun with that then. 06:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Teron Gorefiend
Teron Gorefiend, being the only 'notable undead' on the Undead template, playing a major role in the Shadow Council as well as the Second War and numerous events with the Karabor, including his service to Gul'dan, Orgrim Doomhammer, Kil'jaeden, and his recent relation to Illidan all as possibly the most powerful Death Knight, not to mention his exploits stealing artifacts for the portals in Outland and his attempt at stealing the Eye of Dalaran. Furthermore, he seems to strike fear into the hearts of the Undead. There is no dispute here about his renown nor his exploits, he is entwined deeply with the story, so he is definitely a major character. The major issue I see is that it is too hard to categorize him, for he always seems to only be on his own side... He could easily be categorized under Horde (least likely), Illidari (for his appearence in Black Temple), or even Burning Legion (for his service to Kil'jaeden and Gul'dan). Omniferous (talk) 05:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I added him. Was surprised he had been overlooked. 06:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I added (presumed) after his name, because it is not sure why he is siding with Illidan, and even if he is he may not technically be a member of the Illidari. Feel free to revert this if you want. Omniferous (talk) 01:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Sha'tar/Army of the Light
The Sha'tar and their allies seem to be deeply involved with current lore - Sunwell Isle, Shattrath City and so on. I think that there should be a separate line with characters aiding the Sha'tar like: A'Dal, Akama, Voren'thal, Ishanah, Lady Liadrin, M'uru. What do you think of this?Dakovski (talk) 18:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * While Blizzard is definetly edging towards that (since the characters' introduction), I'm reluctant to do that with this template at this time, largely because of the ones you listed, Akama is the only person who's featured in sources other than WoW (not counting the TGC). While they're all certainly significant characters, I would argue that only Akama and possibly Liadrin have much in the way of character development that one would associate with a "main character." That said, there are others on the template who are in a similar situation, so I guess my answer is "not sure."-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This is ok then. About other characters - some that should be here aren't - Aegwynn, Azshara, Krasus, Zul'jin, maybe Xavius (as Ancient); even Drek'Thar is more important than Nazgrel or Sen'jin. Dakovski (talk) 19:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Chen in Horde section
OK, we've had Chen Stormstout as a character that was helping the Horde in the same manner as Rexxar, and Rexxar is listed behind "Horde". Should we have Chen in Horde section? Severin Andrews 12:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * He's not really a main character in the same way. 12:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Rexxar is formally affiliated with the Horde, Chen isn't also, Chen has about three speaking lines, whereas we know quite a lot about Rexxar. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Overhaul
I've protected this until we decide for certain who we're changing, adding and whatnot. So, let's discuss. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, so we need to put in Azshara somehow. I had no idea what to do with her and put in that "Old Gods" section, throwing in also C'Thun. What do you propose? Severin Andrews 12:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not that. Azshara and they themselves are the only ones from the faction who could be considered "main." A section labelled "other" perhaps? We also need to discuss who on this list stays and who is removed. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that every character with · from the Major characters list should be on this template as well as most with an ·. I see some minor characters on the template that need to be removed - Sen'jin for example is only mentioned in the demo campaign of Warcraft 3; and if Brox and Halduron are to be kept, some other characters if their stature should also be included, say Shandris who is also a sentinel general similar to Halduron. You can even put Garithos and Rend Blackhand. There should be, however, some kind of border and requirements if this is to be a good list, I think.Dakovski (talk) 14:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Both this page and the Major characters list need an overhaul. I'll agree to Sen'jin's removal, he appears in only three missions of a demo (though the events it tells are still canonical). Shandris should definetly be on this list as she is featured prominently in WotA, but Garithos, to my knowledge has never been seen outside of TFT. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe split this into two templates - major and important characters. "Important" list would be longer and less restrictive, including characters who are still important, at least for their races - like Sen'jin, Halduron or Garithos - but couldn't be considered major. What about this?

And "others" section would be good, as good as including C'Thun - one of the five guys who have major impact on Azeroth's prehistory. Severin Andrews 18:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That would clutter up the pages of major characters even further.
 * Anyway, proposed criteria for "main character", each character will have to be examined:
 * 1) Appears in multiple sources
 * 2) Part of the story is told from their point of view
 * C'Thun, I think would not be considered a "main character" because his personal story isn't one that's told a lot and he doesn't feature significantly enough.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Being of the rulers of prehistoric Azeroth and one of the main enemies of the life as it stands is not enough? Severin Andrews 21:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm interpreting "main characters" to mean developed characters who are prominent. C'Thun is powerful, deadly, and important to the lore, but I would not call him a prominent developed character.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * They are responsible for nearly every problem in the Warcraft Universe, but usually do things indirectly or at a distance. There is little 'Hey look at me! Here is my backstory! I did this!' with them, except for C'Thun (who really only appears for a bit) and some in the WotA trilogy.-- 22:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I pass through human characters from the major characters list to see which suits the criteria:

All these are characters from two or more games/novels and should be on the template. Others, like Antonidas, Danath, are not so important in my opinion.Dakovski (talk) 13:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Arthas - RoC, TFT, Arthas, WoW
 * Medivh - TLG, WC2, WC3
 * Lothar - WC1, WC2, ToD
 * Uther - WC2, WC3, ToD
 * Khadgar - WC2:BDP, TLG, ToD, BtDP
 * Jaina - WC3, CoH, WoW
 * Aegwynn - TLG, CoH
 * Kel'Thuzad - WC3, seperate story about him - "Road to Damnation"
 * Varian Wrynn - Comic
 * Tirion Fordring - Of Blood and Honor
 * Rhonin - DotD, WotA, Night of the Dragon
 * Not sure about king Terenas


 * I've tweaked a bit with your list if that's all right (revert if you want) Terenas, Antonidas, Danath, maybe on a separate list for major supporting characters? They're quite important and prominent lore-wise (Antonidas was apparently a sleeper hit in terms of popularity). I also quibble with Fordring, but now that I think about it, he is one of first paladins. I'd also approve:


 * Turalyon- WC2x, ToD, BtDP
 * Maybe we should organize by race instead of just faction?- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My point was to show where exacltly is the story is told from their point of view, not every source they are seen in, but never mind :) Dakovski (talk) 13:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Here are my two cents. Firstly, if we listed every major character by race, it may take up slightly more space then the existing template, and some races have very few major heroes or major characters. However, there are several characters that do not quite fit into a faction that is listed (e.g akama isn't truly illidari) So this method may help. ANd about which characters should be in the template. Here's an idea. We put a vote on every hero's talk page who may have a place on the template, and we vote to see if they should be on here.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 14:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Nice idea but that's going to take too long, and just because a character is popular doesn't mean that they're a main character, see the aforementioned Antonidas, and Rommath. Re the races, I think we could order by faction, then by race, though just by race would work, too.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you think that there should only be certain people, like bookkeepers who should be able to make changes to the template, and that they should decide it all? Seeing as you lot have probably the best understanding of characters, you would know best if someone should be on the list or not, and would also not be biased towards popular or against less well know but just as important characters.Warden Shadowsong (talk) 20:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The Bookeepers are being overhauled as well, so this discussion is open to anyone who has an opinion. The template is now sysop-only protection, I'd like to leave that indefinetly to prevent people from adding whatever characters they like the most. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's my suggestions, since it's uneditable. Add Tirion Fordring to Alliance. One of the first Paladins, now wields the Ashbringer, Arthas seems to think he's important, leader of the argent crusde, had his own book, etc... Remove Terenas (or add the other kings, which i don't recommend). Remove Aegwyn. Remove Rommath, maybe Halduron too, and Sen'jin. Maybe add Magatha (robably not) and Garrosh and Liadrin. Change dragon aspects to just dragons and add Korialstrasz and maybe Kalecgos, maybe Onyxia too (lets see what the comic does with her first maybe). Change Ancients to Eternals (?) and add Azshara, remove Aviana, Aggmaggan, and the bear brothers. Move Medivh to that section. I'm not married to any of these ideas though, feel free to convince me otherwise. 22:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with adding Tirion to Alliance. Though he does favor Alliance, and he was part of the Alliance prior to helping Eitrigg in Blood and Honor, he is now Highlord of the Argent Crusade; a strictly neutral faction, that takes both Alliance and Horde help (though, I have to admit, a lot of the earlier quests that give Argent Crusade rep are Alliance-only).

Personally, I think we should make a "Neutral" section, then add notable neutral characters to that (such as Tirion Fordring or Darion Mograine; they're not Dragon Aspects, but they're not Horde or Alliance either, so making a new neutral section would make sense).

It's a kinda dumb idea, I know, but it's worth consideration I think. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 20:16, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * A neutral faction section might work, but that depends on how many characters we can add that we can consider "major characters", which is part of our original issue. How many besides Tirion.-- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 21:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Quite a few of may have a arguement or two in favor of Alliance (one Horde), but lets see: Khadgar, Maiev, Malfurion, Medivh, Rhonin, Garona.


 * I'm still in favor of simplifying the lists. Get rid of Nazgrel for instance. 22:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Azshara again
I think they should put Azshara in the Ancient row, it is even mentioned in its own article that shes an Ancient. (A with mayus) --Andersmusician $  06:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I just want to note that Azshara's link points to the region, which I think it should not. CzB (talk) 17:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Brann Bronzebeard
I think we should add Brann Bronzebeard to the list. He's got the template on his page, and he apparently was the one who wrote the Warcraft RPG books (WoW-wise, anyways). If writing a great deal of books that are used as citations doesn't make you a main character, I don't know what does. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 02:11, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I would disagree because of his late appearance and little involvement in the the overall storyline- though he's had lot's of adventures, he hasn't really done anything lore-making. On the other hand, I'd agree because of the sheer volume of his writings. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 03:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Putress
I vote Putress be added. Although he was a late character to be added, his actions caused massive ramifications having killed Bolvar, aiding Varimathras in taking UC and obviously building the New Plague. I'd assume he would be a Horde character like how Varimathras is at the moment technically. Blue Ranger (talk) 03:23, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Garrosh Hellscream
I vote Garrosh Hellscream be added. Not only is he the son of Grom Hellscream, but he is also a major character in the Hero of the Mag'har quest chain, and also the leader of the Warsong Offensive. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking the same, though my reasons for him being added is that his story is expanded from his introduction as a man ashamed of his father's actions and in learning of his father's redemption he takes pride in his family name. His status as lord of the Warsong Offensive is a facter combined with his later attitude that show cases his fury and the fact that his previous sense of shame has prevented him from learning from his father's actions makes him an interesting character. --Sairez (talk) 21:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course though, the only people who can edit this template seem to have abandoned its discussion page. I asked for Garrosh to be added right before 2009 came, and I'm only NOW being responded to in February, and by someone who can't edit it. Same's more or less going on with Putress ('cept no one's answered it yet).

Admins, if any of you see this, PLEASE don't abandon this page. I'd like it if you at least CONSIDERED the ideas on here. If it's not good, that's fine, if it is, well then it SHOULD be added here. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 20:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll add Garrosh, but not Putress, and I'd like more opinions on Brann -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Alliance Suggestions
Magni held significant importance during the Second and Third Wars and made Ashbringer. Brann fought during the Second War, has befriended nearly every race and plays a vital role in discovering the origins of his brethren. Bolvar ruled Stormwind for several years, helped Varian return to his throne and waged war against the Lich King. Blue Ranger (talk) 01:13, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Some suggestions...
Much like Blue Ranger before me, I believe Brann Bronzebeard should be on this list. As should the Old Gods - while it can be argued that individually they (Yogg-Saron, C'thun)) do not belong on this list, the Old Gods as a collective whole have had major influences on the development of Azeroth and the mortal races and as of late have been being brought more into the spotlight as major antagonists in the world of Warcraft. They should at least be under Ancients/Eternals. --Nihil Morari (talk) 22:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I can see why admin are having a hard time deciding if Brann should be added. Its mostly because WotLK was Branns first appearence in Video Media and was first mentioned by Murodin in Warcraft III. But enough about that, hes seen in the Secerts of Ulduar, leading an assult on Ulduar and discovering Yogg-Sarons awakened and what not. I vote Brann should be added, I believe he deserves a spot on the Main Character Template. Maybe you could even add High Overlord Saurfang( forgot how to spell his first name, but i'll check the page again later)--Maelstrong 22:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll agree to Brann, because he is becoming more important and entrenched, but I'm not convinced that Varok is what we're looking for. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 23:59, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't I the one who suggested Brann?

I've been forgotten... /sniffle Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 01:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Initially you were, and since then, your proposal had had a corpus of support for a suggestion I think has merit. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess I'll add him under Alliance, but we could maybe do with a neutral section for people like Brann, Rhonin, Jaina and the like who call for Alliance and Horde to work together.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:22, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

If a neutrel section is created Rhonin, Tirion Fordring, Darion Mograine and possibly Khadgar should at least be on there (But I strongly disagree with Khadgar). I also disagree with Brann and Jaina.

Jaina rules an Alliance capital and is apart of the Grand Alliance. She may be on better terms with the Horde but she is still Alliance. Blue Ranger (talk) 22:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Varimathras
shouldnt Varimathras be moved to Burning Legion? On the major characters page hes listed only in Burning Legion and we discover that he was still with the burning legion even after he "joined" sylvanas. Plus he never really did anything that helped the horde at all, the Wrathgate and Battle for Undercity says it all.--Maelstrong 19:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Let's not discuss the major characters page for now... But yes, I suppose it's fair to move him to Burning Legion.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Azshara...AGAIN
As another person stated prior, the Azshara on this template points to the region, even though it should point to Azshara herself. 03:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the region is the Eternal!
 * Or not. Fixed and alphabetized.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
The "Warcraft Universe" part should be spelled "Warcraft universe". Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 09:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Genn Greymane
Well, he leads the Worgen/Gilneas(confirmed from the official), he was established in Warcraft 2, starred in multiple novels and is a faction leader. Blue Ranger (talk) 23:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I would not say he "starred" in multiple novels. He was certainly mentioned several times.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's true. and he was a little on the side-lines through most of the "Big Events". But he was an original Alliance Leader and will be a Current Leader, plus the main site says they're building him into a main character (at least for the expansion), he's arguably one of the few Alliance characters that's been in the lore for a while that hasn't died or turned evil. Blue Ranger (talk) 23:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd say his inclusion based on faction leaderness and website mention, and his history is enough, I wouldn't oppose it. If we do add him, should it be now, or after Cataclysm is released? It may seem silly to wait, but he isn't in-game. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd vote now. Cataclysm readers and fans will be going to be his article frequently, it'll be nice to show people there's a list of high-profile characters who play a role in the universe. Blue Ranger (talk) 20:10, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Neutral Characters
Lore Characters are one of the most pivitol aspects in Warcraft, however many importent characters choose a Neutral-alighnment over the Alliance and Horde. Tirion Fordring and Darion Mograine are probably good examples of this. So I suggest below the Alliance and Horde section to create a 'Neutral" catagory. This will help Wowwiki readers with reading on lore characters. Blue Ranger (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree on principle, but you've begun to touch upon why the template was locked in the first place- it's rather subjective as to who should be considered a main character and placed on this template. While I'd agree to Tirion Fordring, I wouldn't agree with Darion. Addendum: if we do add a neutral section then several characters would be moved. to reflect more current alignments.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is indeed very subjective. For example, while Darion and Alexandros Mograine are not on the list while Kazzak and Rommath, who I would consider far more minor, are. I'd argue too that A'dal, Varok Saurfang, Onyxia, and Bolvar Fordragon may be worthy of inclusion. There's probably also reason enough to add an Old Gods category (which, if we do, should also include Cho'gall). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:40, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I agree with most of the ones you've posited. And I agree to the removal of Kazzak and Rommath.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:47, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Tirion Fordring
I think Tirion should be added to the list. From humble beginnings to Lord of the Argent Crusade and facing off the Lich King, Tirion is proving to be a major player in the warcraft universe. I think the only reason he wasn't on here before was because he was neutral but I have a solution to that. Tirion was once apart of the Alliance so we could put him in the Alliance section of the template, much like how we have Cho'gall in the Horde section of the template.

To those who would disagree I have to point out that Warden Maiev Shadowsong was never a member of the Alliance. Though she is a major lore character, her inclusion into the Alliance section of the template is because the Night Elves are apart of the Alliance. --Sairez (Talk)

Gelbin Mekkatorque
Should the gnome king be added to the Alliance side? I get he hasn't done much in game, but he is a faction leader. So.../shrug.--TheUltimate (talk) 15:29, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * You raise a good point. I'd probably say no, though. He doesn't seem to have done much in-game or in lore.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:31, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is true, but it still seems kinda odd that he is the only faction leader not listed. All Horde faction leaders and every Alliance leader but Gelbin are mentioned are listed.--TheUltimate (talk) 06:06, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Must Character Add
I Want this character add. Please this character Add You must.

<> Anduin Wrynn, Gelbin Mekkatorque, Magni Bronzebeard, Tirion Fordring, Verisa windrunner

<> Baine Bloodhoof, Dranosh Saurfang, Varok Saurfang, Me'dan, Rokhan, Chen Stormstout

<> Bolvar Fordragon (He is a New Lich King Currently. Former Alliance)

<> Varimathras Movement from Horde to Burning Legion Must!

And Titans

--28686 (talk) 17:52, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * No to Anduin, Gelbin and Magni. Yes to Tirion and Vereesa.
 * No to Baine, Dranosh, Rokhan, and Chen. Maybe to Varok. No to Med'an, because he's not Horde. (Worth opening up discussion for neutral section).
 * Not moving Fordragon to reflect the fact that nobody except Tirion is aware of his current status.
 * Yes to Varimathras.
 * Maybe to the Titans. They haven't done much besides shape Azeroth. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Random ideas:
 * A-Z sorting on the family name would be nice
 * adding Muradin and Brann to Alliance (Second War heroes and the world most famous explorer)
 * moving Medivh, Maiev Shadowsong, Rhonin and Tirion Fordring from Alliance to Neutral
 * moving Gul'dan from Horde to Neutral (he played from himself all along)
 * adding Varok Saurfang to Horde, his place in the horde leadership is growing every day
 * moving Cho'gall from Horde to Neutral or Twilight Hammer (he left the horde, like Kael'thas)
 * moving Ner'zhul from Horde to Neutral or Scourge (no longer serve the horde)
 * moving Akama from Illidan's force to Neutral (lore says that Illidan was betrayed by Akama)
 * moving Kael'thas from Illidan's force to Burning Legion (lore says that he left Illidan for Kil'jaeden)
 * 20:01, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * A-Z sorting on family names would make more sense, but there are enough cases of Blizzard sorting according to given name. Not saying we shouldn't do it, just pointing that out.
 * Muradin and Brann are already there, just listed by given name.
 * Yes, a neutral section of some sort makes more sense for those characters.
 * True, but the Horde was Gul'dan's creation.
 * Given the fan following that Varok has, I need a little more convincing that he's actually taking a more active role in Horde leadership. Copious use of fan favorites was the reason this page was protected in the first place.
 * If we move Cho'gall to neutral, should we try splitting up neutral into "good" and "evil"? I think that putting Cho'gall in exactly the same category as Rhonin and Tirion is a big stretch, because all these characters are neutral in totally different ways.
 * Ner'zhul was affiliated with the Horde up until his transformation. This ties into a larger question: should we group characters according to which group they are most associated with, or their most recent affiliation?
 * Akama's case is similar to those above.
 * I'm starting to see a case for removing Illidan's forces from the list altogether.
 * -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would say the most recent affiliation is the better one, because we tend to keep wowiki up-to-date (bolvar lick king for example), and reading in a template that Kael and akama are aligned with illidan is a bit "lol" when you know BC storyline.
 * Like for the Races, I'll work a template out, and people will comment it (more the form than the content)
 * 16:22, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have a look here.
 * 10:37, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, not all of the ancients and dragons are evil, so I don't know about that. You should probably leave all those others at categories on equal footing with Horde, Alliance and Neutral (still dividing neutral into good and evil)- I don't like demoting all the ancients to evil simply because of Azshara. Other than that, I like. The surname alphabeticals look a little weird, but that's just because I'm not used to seeing them. -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 17:50, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have a look again.
 * 18:13, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good. That is all.
 * Please Edit New Article.
 * 28686 (talk) 17:52, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about referring to the neutrals like that- it sounds like that's their alignment. Maybe "neutral (good)" or something? Other than that, I think it looks great, though I'm still getting used to seeing the surname order. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:54, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe just Neutral with the Symbol of Neutral or Combat is enough?
 * I let you choose the sorting you like.
 * 15:45, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, just leave Neutral and the icons... You know what, leave the order as is, see how it goes. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Check again :)
 * 21:50, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'm gonna throw yours up, see how it goes.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:53, March 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * thanks very much.
 * 28686 (talk) 17:52, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Varok Saurfang
I'm curious as to why he isn't here. Saurfang facts aside, he did lead the Might of Kalimdor and the Kor'kron Guard as well as the Horde forces in assaulting Icecrown Citadel. KWSN (talk) 14:42, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was surprised when I noticed he wasn't on the list. He's been the Horde's second-in-command since Doomhammer became Warchief.  He's arguably the most prominent Horde character in WoW, having appeared in more battles and scripted events than any of their racial leaders. Egrem (talk) 16:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Recent move
Due to the split between Ancient and ancients, the links have to be changed.

==>

Thanks

14:35, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Malfurion Stormrage
I believe that Malfurion Stormrage should be moved to the Neutral section with Tirion and the others. Furion was never apart of the Alliance, I have never seen anything to suggest it. The Night Elves are apart of the Alliance, but nothing has said about Furion himself being in the Alliance. --Sairez (talk)


 * Let's wait until Cataclysm comes out, when we can see for sure. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Beta is on and Malfurion is neutral for the Horde, he can be moved, as he will lead all mortals in Hyjal (like Tirion in ICC)
 * 09:55, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Changes
I worked out some changes in the template. See here. Changes include:
 * a Black dragonflight category, because the sweet family made lots of troubles during the whole story
 * malfurion moved to neutral
 * Goldrinn added to the Ancients ("source" of the worgen curse, mentionned in books, present in hyjal)

10:06, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Gul'dan
Shouldn't Gul'dan go in the antagonist neutral section? He's tagged as such on his page.

(Guyomeprime (talk) 06:24, September 16, 2010 (UTC))
 * He hasn't been moved, cause there's still a vote taking place at Talk:Gul'dan. 06:59, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Malfurion Stormrage and Brann Bronzebeard - Alliance
They are Alliance at heart, and would fight on the side of their brothers and sisters if a war against the Horde ever arose.

- Brann. Brother of Magni and Muradin Bronzebeard. He is much as part of the Alliance as Thrall is to the Horde. Just because other players may be able to interact with him, he is practically the representative of the Dwarves in almost all cases. - Just because Thrall is helping with the Maelstrom that he is now Neutral? - He is head of the Explorer's League, the Alliance expedition guild. - During the Elemental Invasion, he was found alongside his brother and the rest of the Alliance leaders. (He was the one who called the meeting amongst them).

- Malfurion Stormrage can be found beside Tyrande Whisperwind in Darnassus. I read an argument saying that just because he's a Night Elf, that he isn't part of the Alliance? He is titled 'Lord of the Night Elves'. - His own wife is the faction leader of the Night Elves. - http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Malfurion_and_Tyrande_in_Darnassus.jpg - Other than all that, it seems that if Blizzard wanted Malfurion to be a neutral character, they would have made it a bit more obvious e.g. as intractable as Tirion. Tirion did not get more exposure to one race over the other in Wrath at all. Malfurion does by a big margin.

- Khadgar. - The guy who lead the assault to push back the Horde into the Dark Portal. - The mage who has a massive statue in the Stormwind, Valley of Heroes. - quoted "...and went on to become one of the greatest heroes of the Alliance..." from his Wowpedia page summary.

Please consider these suggestions, and how they make sense. > User:IroncladzOTE

Baine Bloodhoof?
I was thinking that we should add Baine Bloodhoof to the list. We have seen Baine grow from the young bull that was captured by the centaur to a proud warrior who led an assault to regain Thunder Bluff for the Horde. --Sairez (talk) 06:07, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As the new chieftain of the tauren, as a whole, that alone is probably reason enough to add him. 07:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Update!
I propose the update:

(Gabrirt (talk) 22:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC))


 * The problem is that that it makes an already large template even larger vertically. However, I will admit that this template is probably in desperate need of an overhaul anyway to make it smaller. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This just looks horrible. -- 23:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * What is the problem with the current one?
 * 23:10, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * No idea. Seems like a classic scenario of "needs more stuff", by how Gabrirt has been editing. -- 23:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well compare: More chars and categories and also I can try to subdivide:

(Gabrirt (talk) 23:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC))


 * Thanks you (lol!) I can see the differences, but I don't see the need to add racial subdivisions.
 * 23:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ...That's even worse. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:25, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I only added the subdivision that have more than 4 individuals. Also if you want I can comment about the moves (Brann, Garona, Gul'dan, Malfurion and maybe more...) and the chars added. (Gabrirt (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC))
 * Well, Dark T Z., if you have a better idea wrote here. The problem was "Ohhhhhhh!!! It's too big!", so I tried to subdivide. What you find of "worse" here? (Gabrirt (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2011 (UTC))


 * Then again, what is the use of this racial subdivision?
 * Gul'dan affiliation is not even settled on his article so it won't move for now. Garona is horde. Zul'jin, Dranosh and Magatha are useless. Brann is neutral.
 * And many other ones misplaced or not belonging here.
 * And the form is horrible
 * 23:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A footer perhaps should be the best solution?--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I said it was too big, yes, but your newer version is laid out in such a way that the vertical height is increased even further. I don't really care one way or another about the racial subdivisions, but I'd like to see the vertical height of the template either maintained or decreased, not increased. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Correcting: Garona and Gul'dan WERE Horde. See in their article. Furion and Brann ARE Alliance. Furion led the mortals and is respected (the co-learder) in Cenarion Circle and don't carry hostilities against the Horde and explores to give information to everybody. Well it don't make them neutral; recently Brann found an terrible arch-enemy in a Horde faction: The Reliquary, led by the High Examiner. And Malfurion is the co-leader of Darnassus, lord of the night elves. If they are neutral to horde don't means that they are neutral. Also remember: The criterion that makes a char belong to some faction is his last affiliation (as Kael and Akama are not in Illidan's forces at all). The last time that I've seen, all these chars was in the factions that I posted.

I will test with less racial subdivisions. I have to take a shower and go away. The idea was segregate in categories, for me it is organization. (Gabrirt (talk) 00:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC))


 * The problem is that it's way too big already. What criteria do we have for a major main character anyway? -- 15:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * If it's trying to list all characters seen on Major characters then, heck no... This template should probably turn to what it's named for... main characters, not major characters. Now, it already points to the articles in which users can find more info, so what I think this template should do is point to currently active characters found in-game. I.E. leaders that are still alive or active. 22:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Right, I meant main characters. It sounds reasonable to just list the ones that are currently active/alive. -- 22:57, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

In Azgalor article is said that he is alive in lore. (Gabrirt (talk) 00:00, 12 March 2011 (UTC))


 * And does he have any effect on what's currently happening in Azeroth? -- 00:04, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, he is a secondary leader of the Legion. Main characters don't need really to stay in Azeroth. Is Akama in Azeroth after all, for the example?(Gabrirt (talk) 00:18, 12 March 2011 (UTC))
 * This basically goes back to the reason why the template was pared down: it was too big. Just because they're an important character and not dead doesn't mean they necessarily belong on the template. I guess, ultimately, my question is this: what has Azgalor done that warrant his inclusion beyond simply being the highest-ranking living pitlord? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ...Actually, in that same vein, Varimathras should probably be removed given the results of the Battle of the Undercity. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Changes
Here I have included a few more figures I also removed Alleria, for obvious reasons

--MoneygruberTheGoblin 20:35, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

Major Edits
I feel that this template is far outdated and incorrect so I changed to to a more compact and accurate template MoneygruberTheGoblin (talk contribs) 23:53, 29 June 2011 (UTC)