Talk:Rogue

Old comments
I suggest shortening the Abilities section; only listing a handful of the most interesting abilities.
 * They are all mentioned in the separate abilities article.
 * This page is supposed to be an overview of the rogue class; now it's just too long.
 * Makes it easier to update in the future, because fewer places has to be updated if a patch changes anything.

--Fischer 09:14, 12 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I suggest the starting attributes are put in a table. --CJ


 * I suggest you make the changes yourselves, then say on here that you did. That's the wiki way - Be Bold!  If somebody disagrees with what you do, *then* you wait and discuss it on the talk page a little and come to a consensus before esiting it one way or another; but as long as nobody has already opposed a change, just make it!
 * &#8465;ilver&#167;&#8465;ide|undefined 12:30, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * Fixed it up a bit, not quite sure how to get it to look like the Races page. but this is an improvement at elast :) --CJ


 * Wouldn't Sap + Vanish work the same as improved sap. just a bit less good?
 * Only if you wanna put your rogue and by extension, group through a lot of trouble. Vanish is on a 5 minute cooldown. It also requires Flash Powder, which costs a mere 25 copper but only stacks to 10, so it costs a bit of money and inventory space to carry around a ton.
 * Discussion outdated: Flash Powder now stacks to 20 and Sap never breaks steath since 2.1.0 ElfElunaAlina 16:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

--Conscript I added a sentance saying some rogues opt to use Attack Power, over Agi/Stam. Mainly at higher levels.

Latem 02:29, 8 January 2007 (EST) The orc racial Hardiness is no longer 25%. Updating to 15%.

Rogues As I Know It
I play a Level 25 Human Rogue. He uses the Stealth (Rank 2) ability a lot. He does tons (and I mean tons!) of lockpicking to gather over 11-14 Battered Junkbox(es) every time I am at Raven Hill Graveyard in Duskwood. You can make over 16 silver from the goods from pickpocking every hour based on level. I make around 2-3 gold every hour by pick pocketing level 25's, lockpicking Battered Junkboxes, and killing the humanoids and selling all the goods.

Rogues play a top line of DPS. The rogue's most favored ability in stealth mode is Ambush. You get Ambush at Level 18. It deals 250% weapon damage (300% with talents) plus 75. The most important talents that all rogues really need are Improved Ambush (Which increases Ambush Critical % by 45%).

They also can use Gouge, which incapicates an enemy for 4 seconds, unless it is immune. The more common immune characteristics are mechanical creatures. Anyways, when Gouge commences (use it when your energy is full), then quickly sneak in the back and then do the Backstab ability which deals 150% weapon damage plus a certain number.

Next up on the list of Rogues favorite is Eviscerate. This is a finishing move that can only be used when you perform certain abilities to gain Combo Points. Abilities include Sinister Strike, Ambush, Gouge, and Backstab. There are many others, but those are the most common ones for a rogue to use to survive.

As professions go, rogues should take Alchemy/Herbalism, Skinning/Leatherworking, or Mining/Engineering.

See, i play a level 33 rogue on sunstrider and everyone is always argueing about using swords or daggers. I dont see why you can't use both. All you need are two daggers and a sword. put the sword on your action bar and click it after ambush. --Jammidodger 06:50, 2 January 2007 (EST)

It has to do with weapon specialization in the combat talent tree.Julio144 (talk) 15:31, July 15, 2010 (UTC) -Frostworn1822

starting attributes
from a cursory glance, the starting attributes table seems messed up: on the night elf page it says their starting agi is 25 but the table on the rogue page says 28, and the gnome page says 24 agi to start but the table says 25. Also, in the race-breakdown section, gnomes are said to tie with night elves for the highest starting agility in the game, but neither the table nor the race pages bear this out.

I'd do all research and fix it but don't have time to track down a reliable source right now...anyone out there who can fix this?--Scrotch 22:14, 8 November 2006 (EST)
 * Rogues get a bonus to agility. Check Races - chrull 12:59 2 January 2007 (CET)

dagger/sword thing
Ok, i just wanted to say that as a rogue, many of your abilities require daggers (no duh) but if you have 2 rlly good swords you will always want to keep a dagger in your bags and switch to that when you want to sneak up on a person and ambush them. there are mods for swapping main hand wpns when you go into stealth. i highly reccomend this

--Bloodcleaver 19:11, 12 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Not an effective tactic at max level, though... Asherett 00:59, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
 * It is. All you need is a MH<=>OH weapon swap macro. If you need to DPS you mainly choose between Sinister Strike and Backstab. Backstab generally deals more damage but only available when the mob is exposing his back at you. You can keep the dagger in main hand waiting for an occasion to backstab, however performing Sinister Strike with a dagger will be myriad times less efficient then with a slow sword or mace. So you want to change the mainhand depending on mob's orientation to you. Global cooldown? Beleive or not, if you swap weapons instantly after doing some ability you won't get any additional waiting time ElfElunaAlina 16:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It isn't. You obviously don't know how to rogue and should cease trying to talk about rogue tactics. Hoochfly (talk) 15:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Hoochfly, at high level either you spec all out swords or all out daggers, for daggers you wont really be using SS because dagger spec rogues (Like all rogues should in my opinion) have a very acrobatic play style and will jump round to avoid being hit and be behind target at most times, but if you go all out swords you going to be using cheap shots and kidney shots alot to keep from being hit too much and keeping a steady DPS going...Sure the tactic you described is useful but only until about level 45...and you didn't even mention cheap shot or stuns so please dont comment on high level tactics if your only level 1-29 (You get stuns around 30 don't you? Nicktehplank 11:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Weapons Section Question
There is a portion in the Weapons section that reads "Weapons held in the off-hand are not used for any instant attacks". Don't Mutilate and Shiv use the off-hand weapon? Nebric 11:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Mutilate and Shiv and exceptions to this standard. Midnightbane 21:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)Midnightbane

This page needs a lot of trimming.
Offending sections: Pzychotix 17:41, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Weapon (a bit of fat)
 * Notable Weapons (entirely fat. Needs to be removed, or split into a second article.)
 * Abilities/Stealth (This much detail should be left to the actual Stealth page. We only need overviews here.)
 * Poisons (Trim/rework needed)
 * Stuns (rework needed, as sap/gouge are not stuns, and blind is not included)


 * Reply to Pzychotix:

23:29, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Weapon - its fine, its very usefull
 * Notable Weapons - i agree needs to be removed, this is sort of unneccesary info and could be put on a subpage
 * abilites/stealth - should not be moved to stealth instead be moved into the rogue abilites section
 * Poisons - does not need a rework.
 * Stuns - blind is not a stun, it disorientates the target, sap and gouge are considered stuns.

Reply to above There is also kidney shot...which is a proper stun you build combo points for how many seconds it will last.


 * Sap and gouge is no more a stun than blind is. The section should be renamed if you wish to include these.
 * Stealth section is way too detailed for this page. This page is only to give an overview on the topic of Rogues, not to give intricate detail on stealth mechanics, and how you can improve your stealth level. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 11:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I moved much of the stealth info to its own page. For weapons, are there other class-specific weapon pages to use as a guide for where this info should go? (Never mind. Found Rogue_equipment and moved the Notable weapons there.) -- Harveydrone ( talk | work ) 18:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Wanted to Add one other thing for Undead
It seems it was overlooked, but to be an Undead and a Rogue also means no need for potions, trinkets, or other items to breath underwater. An Undead is essentially a dead walking animated corpse requiring no air. Thus, if you're considering possibly going with a race that can not only have lack of downtime, resistance to some magical effects, and be able to fight underwater without fear of drowning, Undead is it. --Psypho 02:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Moved from professions section
Edited by ZeroAccend
 * IMPORTANT ENGINEERING EDIT

I'd like to add that as someone who's done all of the mentioned professions, engineering is by far and hands down the best rogue profession in the game. I feel that the original poster hasn't had a chance to appreciate engineering on a rogue so these are some core points I'd like to add:

While a bit more expensive then the average profession, it's benefits are invaluable.
 * -- Grenades make for an easy caster stun when they're just out of reach or if the person is trying to flee. If these were the only usable thing from engineering I'd still take this profession on my rogue.
 * -- Gnomish Death Ray = mad damage at the cost of some of your life. Great to get off during a gouge.
 * -- Gnomish Rocket Boots and Goblin Rocket Boots are a free sprint for rogues with a small chance for backfire.
 * -- The reflectors are disgusting against casters, especially the Ultra-Flash Shadow Reflector when playing with a warlock or shadow priest.
 * -- Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector is a god send as well. For those rogues that don't choose shadow step, this makes catching people quite easy. While it sometimes will net you to the ground (low chance) it will also sometimes snag on your clothes and drag you to your opponent before it nets them. There's nothing worse then being netted to a rogue.
 * -- Goblin Rocket Launcher is a higher level engineering trinket that's also great for doing 1k damage out of nowhere. The added bonus is the trinket also gives +45 stam. Yet another great addition to any rogue's arsenal.

While there's many other engineering marvels out there, these are just a few to name off the bat. If you have the money, take this profession and enjoy the heck out of it's toys.


 * I moved the above from the article as it's a personal opinion. Reword it from authoritative and dispassionate point of view and it can go in :) 23:05, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Feral druid so OP now?!
The introduction says: ''The rogue class is the premiere melee damage dealer, approached in sustained DPS capability only by well-geared Fury-specced warriors and Feral-specced druids. '' Since when do feral specced druids get such high dps??? @@

I guess the idea of the original writer was all those three classes listed can, thanks to the energy and rage system, keep using their abilities no matter how long the fight is, in contrast to mana users. However, this gives people the wrong impression that feral druids can top the damage chart. Maybe someone can rewrite it? WakemanCK 14:57, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Well im not sure but when i last played (Late into TBC just before Lich King) In battlegrounds cat fourm druids were verry powerful because they didnt really need good weapons to deal massive amounts of damage like rogues do...so a low (green/blue) geared cat could easily DPS as well as a season one wearing rogue... Nicktehplank 11:28, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

How combat a Rogue ?
Although Rogues are not Considered overpowerd(Technically) they have too many abilities too kill a single opponent, and i would like too know how too defeat a rogue ? (Entaro Adun)


 * Roll a Ret Pally. ROFLMAO! 14:57, 28 October 2008 UTC

Update by stating all the important Rogue combat stats?
At the very beginning it reads:

''The primary Rogue attribute is agility. At later levels, most Rogue-oriented gear will also include a lot of Attack Power. For PvP, stamina is needed for staying power. For a rogue, agility is always preferable to strength. A rogue uses no mana, so intelligence and spirit are nearly useless. Spirit also contributes to health restoration, but even with spirit you won't want to rely on just normal healing, and whatever method you use, food, bandages, potions, or a healer, makes having a lot of spirit unnecessary.''

It doesn't say anything about as crucial stats as Hit rating, Crit chance and Haste rating. Should it be updated?

Tinunduil (talk) 13:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Inscriptionage
I love it, I maxxed it out, and it pwns. I added inscriptions to the list of viable rogue professions as well as a link to Rogue glyphs. Eh... and some other minor changes that are profession related like the AMAZING addition of Mixology for Alchemists!! 15:03, 28 October 2008 UTC

Dual Wielding
So I'm new to playing a Rogue, and I totally suck at math, but to my knowledge this is how Dual Wield seems to work. The offhand recieves a 50% damage penalty. So if one's damage were 1 then the damage dealt by your offhand (or x) is: x = (1*.5)=.5 So the talent for Dual Wield Specialization says "Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%". So doesn't that mean it would be: x * 1.5 = .75 So shouldn't the damage of the offhand be reduced to a 25% damage penalty? Article says otherwise. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/35286-13-rogue-dual-wield-question That site explains it as I have Rikshaw (talk) 14:53, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Weapons
Under the Weapons section the formula is given: "Normalized Damage = Base Weapon Damage + (Base Multiplier × Attack Power ÷ 14)". It also says "if you have 2 weapons of equal DPS, the slower weapon will have a higher base damage (average damage) and thus cause more damage overall." I'm not disagreeing with that, but what I don't understand is what if two weapons have dif. dps and dif. speeds. For example (aside from the green coh effects) which would be better to use for main hand for a combat rogue: Weapon 1: 74-112 Damage 2.4 speed. (38.7 dps) Weapon 2: 66-124 Damage 2.7 speed. (35.2 dps) (Weapon 2 having the higher "base" damage, if I'm interpreting this correctly)Crambole2 (talk) 16:31, April 4, 2010 (UTC)