Talk:Kael'thas Sunstrider/Analysis

Reviving The Sunwell
"He was somehow able to salvage the skull of his father, Anasterian, from the ruins of Quel'thalas and enshrines it Tempest Keep, his citadel in Outland. The skull is, unfortunately, one of the artifacts that the Red and Green Dragons would need to restore the Sunwell." Sooo....Kael could help to create a new Sunwell if he wanted to, and eliminate the need for his people to deal with dangerous demons for their magic fix....and yet he doesn't? I don't know the whole story, of course, but so far that seems kinda (bleep)ed up!--Illidan Rocks 19:17, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Perhaps he's unaware of its capability to restore the Sunwell... or maybe he's sentimental and doesn't want to sacrifice the last remains of his father. Also, I don't get why the dragonflights would want to restore the Sunwell... it's not relative to them, is it? ...or, maybe he IS aware of the skulls power to restore the Sunwell, yet is unable to contact the dragons in order to do so. There are a dozen possibilities.--Anticrash 16:58, 25 Nov 2005 (PST)
 * Yeah, it could be any of those things, which is why I'm reserving judgment. If it turns out to be something stupid, though, like "I like demonic magic better, I don't want another Sunwell", then I'll definitely think less of Kael. I'm sure that his father wouldn't mind having his skull used in such a fashion if it was for the greater good of his people. The more interaction the Blood Elves have with demons, the greater the risk to them, and if Kael becomes aware of a possible alternative source of magic then he should jump on it right away. As for why the dragonflights might want to restore the Sunwell, it beats me, but I won't look a gift-dragon in the mouth (especially since I might get a faceful of fire).--Illidan Rocks 20:15, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * In response to Anticrash's comments about the dragonflights, read one of Knaak's books more carefully; Alextrazsa sticks her snout in the affairs of mortals whenever possible, Ysera's usually the same way with Elves in particular and Malygos (if he's sane) was created to watch over magic- he probably thinks that the Sunwell is important to Azeroth's magic. -Ragestorm 20:50, 26 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Was Alexstraza captured by the orcs because of her habit of sticking her snout into mortal affairs, and leaving herself vulnerable to attack? I don't know the whole story of Alexstraza's capture during the Second War, just that the orcs subdued her, chained her up, and forced her offspring to fight alongside them (the manual for Warcraft II says that she laid eggs and that the orcs raised the hatchlings themselves, eventually slaying the dragons when they grew too big and strong to control.  The history section of worldofwarcraft.com says "Threatening to destroy her precious eggs, the Horde forced Alexstrasza to send her grown children to war. The noble red dragons were forced to fight for the Horde, and fight they did."  Either way).  --Illidan Rocks 14:41, 27 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Where did this information about the skull and the dragons come from in the first place? Is it on the Burning Crusade page, because I sure don't remember it being in Frozen Throne. -- Montag 14:08, 23 March 2006 (EST)
 * The information comes from one of the RPG Manuals. The Dragonflights are not likely to give the reckless bloodelves more magic unless they thought it could pacify them (I doubt it), and given Malygo's war on all Mortal Arcane magic users, the Blood Elves are probably not on his good side.  Then we have the info concerning the plateau, how they plan to use the manaforges to bring back the Sunwell and use it to bring good'ole Killjoy Kil'Jaeden to Azeroth. I think that covers it. Meneldir

Title
Why he is not King Kael'thas? And I think we gonna kill him at Outland. But it would be funny if he would side with alliance. --mko 07:12, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

Kael is not the king, because the councils and such required to approve a coronation are dead. also, the remaining Quel'dorei do not recognize him, and there are many Sin'dorei who do not support him. Of course, the fact that he resides in Outland means that he can't really by the king of Quel'thalas (or should that be Sin'thalas?) --Ragestorm 07:34, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

Raids on Kael'thas
I don't really understand what's going on concerning the Blood Elves in Burning Crusade. Apparently, they seek to go to Outland in order to reunite with Kael, yet we know that Kael will most likely be a raid target. Therefore, the player, even as a Blood Elf, would eventually get to kill the one he desperately wanted to rejoin with. Unless they come up with a vicious plot twist (would be surprising in a MMORPG), it does not make any sense. Someone posted a similar question on the official WoW forums, and Tseric (Bliz poster) obviously did not know what he was saying (i.e. he probably does not understand either). I hope this will be clarified in the future. --DarthMuffin 19:58, 27 July 2006 (EDT)


 * It has already been said by Blizz officials that when the Azerothian blood elves get to Outland, they won't like what they see in their brethren there... --Kakwakas 02:58, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

Where is he now?
Does anyone know where he is now? There's a picture of him in Dalaran with Jaina in the article, but alas, I am not an Alliance player. Can anyone confirm this? Pzychotix 03:00, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Read the article. Blizzard confirmed that Kael'thas would be the boss of Tempest Keep, the structure he blatantly stole from the naarul, which in turn led to the capture and torture of one of them, which is why the Blood Elves, who lack any sort qualification, can now be paladins. That image is from the short story, Road to Damnation about Kel'Thuzad. Jaina and Kael were present at the tribunal that confronted Kel'thuzad about his necromantic leanings, and that's where the image is from. --Ragestorm 06:48, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Mmm, I guess I missed that. It's not very emphasized inside the article, but it's there. I guess I was expecting a sort of "Where are they now..." type of thing. Pzychotix 18:33, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Hey, I don't want to look boring, but if everyone's gonna ask us about questions answered in the article and mistaking themselves with almost 10-years-ago-stories we'll not make it. This is a wiki, if you wish to find information you have to read and find what you need.
 * But if you don't only in THAT case you can ask a question here. Pay a look at Wikipedia : the questions are very few on each Talk page.--Kirochi 02:46, 29 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Although, some articles don't have very clear headers. And, with characters from WC3, we tend to list their actions mission-by-mission, so it can get confusing. And I'm sorry if I sounded rude, Pzychotix, but I've encountered another signless questioner who doesn't seem to know anything, so I tend to sound short in these situations. Sorry again. --Ragestorm 17:13, 29 July 2006 (EDT)


 * The question could be "Where was he" ? He survived Dalaran's and Silvermoon's collapses, how does the hell this über imba boss always avoids horrible death at the hands of the Burning Legion or it's servitors ?--Kirochi 16:04, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Blind Luck? a god who acts in opposition to Elune? Kil'jaeden manipulating yet another pawn? the possibilities are endless. --Ragestorm 16:09, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * But making him a killable boss, even for the Horde, could also mean his badass luck has come to an end ...--Kirochi 16:37, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Lore explanation: once favored by the Holy Light, Kael has fallen into bloodlust and darkness. By sending one of the Light-blessed Naaru to its tortured and cruel end, Kael has lost whatever favor he once had, and now his life is forfeit to the champions of the LIght (Alliance) and the Spirits (Horde). Practical explanation: let's face it, who wouldn't want to see Kael get attacked at least once? And in such a nice lair ;-P --Ragestorm 17:26, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Perfect ^^--Kirochi 17:57, 28 August 2006 (EDT)
 * I could also add that, if Kael'Thas is still living in the WC motion picture his role will be played by Chuck Norris (yes, he'll play both Saurfang and KT ^^)--Kirochi 11:30, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * You think so? Chuck Morris doesn't capture the hotheaded youth that Kael sometimes is. I would have though Jared Leto or Neil Jackson would be more suited for Kael. Apart from anything else, they could just re-use their costumes from "Alexander." Anyway, do we know if the WarCraft motion picture is set after the Burning Crusade? I thought it was going to be a rehash of the First War. --Ragestorm 19:56, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * No way d00d, they said there were going to be Night Elves ^^--Kirochi 04:05, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

He actually DIES?!
Damn, that sucks. Important character like Kael meeting his end in that way.--Illidan Rocks 16:00, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I believe it when I see it. --Odolwa 16:54, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, that's one way to end a troublesome character. Of course, since the character isn't troublesom, then we have a bit of a fandom crisis. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:45, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Yeah he dies, what then? Kel'thuzad also died, and so did Vashj. Oh, did I forget to mention Kargath Bladefist ? =) Illidan had told us, we're not prepared ... to see our heroes get killed by ourselves.-- K )  (talk) 20:51, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Kel'Thuzad never died. Therefore it amazes me that Blizzard's ruthlessely killing of more important lore-characters like Kael'thas. --Odolwa 08:52, 22 April 2007 (EDT)


 * What do you think happens in Naxxramas, smarty ?-- K )  (talk) 08:58, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Kels spirit manipulates you to spare his life and give his jar to a AD dude that disappears. Keilden

Um ... No. He dies. Actually. But for once Blizzard decided to put a joke in their game : they've decided to explain why a mob can be killable and killable and killable until the end. The disappearing phylactery was made to be funny, he's again there even if you don't retrieve the phylactery to the betrayer.-- K )  (talk) 10:19, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Actually, Kel makes it clear that he can return, warning the player that he would return with "power beyond your imagination", also note that the phylactery he dropped never fell into the hands of the Argent Dawn. Hordesupporter 14:04, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Exactly, Hordesupporter. According to the tactics page for Kael, he actually does die for good and his last words are "For...Quel'thalas..." Vashj does too. Her last words are "Lord Illidan, I... I am... sorry." These are the first times where major lore characters have died at the hands of players with the likelihood being that it will be considered canon in the future. I only hope that the same won't happen to Illidan, although if it does I suppose that's better than him being captured by Killie-pants. (Btw, I should add that I don't really consider Kargath Bladefist the kind of major lore character I'm talking about. True, he appeared in the Warcraft II expansion, but he had no lines. Bladefist only has a short cameo in Rise of the Horde. Therefore, by my thinking anyway, he is nowhere near as important as Kael & Vashj)--Illidan Rocks 14:46, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

In all honestness, I don't believe anything we players do with ingame-bosses are considered canon. Think about it: both factions get the same quests, involving killing the same bosses. What would it say in the lore? The bosses can't be killed twice. --Odolwa 16:52, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

The lore could say something like "a group of adventurers infiltrated Tempest Keep and slew Prince Kael'thas after learning of his ties to the Burning Legion." It wouldn't be the first time the history section of a game manual said something happened but didn't go into detail (Orgrim Doomhammer's death, for instance).--Illidan Rocks 15:06, 24 April 2007 (EDT)


 * The lore could probably be written a bit better. It'll probably wrap it up into the Sha'tar story, stating that the Scryers and Aldor, lead by Voren'thal and Ishanah, were able to sucessefully band together and send forces to stop Kael and the rest of Illidan's followers, and aided Maiev and Akama in defeating Illidan himself. I think that generally, in WoW, you have to consider players to not be so much like the major Hero Unit type characters, but more like the regular Units that the Heroes command. I think this is the case for Hyjal in the CoT as well. Suzaku 16:10, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Illidan rocks, you need to read Lord of the Clans. :) --Sky (t · c · w) 16:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, apparently, despite players having killing him and looting his corpse, he comes back to mock the Naaru after you report to A'dal. I find this quite surprising. It keeps the future of the Blood Elves in question instead of locking them towards redemption, as Kael is the source of their corruption. Now it is a political battle between Kael and the Scryers. How does he come back? Who knows. He could be soulstoned,or perhaps his contract with Kil'Jaeden requires him to serve him longer and he won't die until he has fulfilled said contract. Or perhaps it's the whole phoenix thing, phoenixes being a theme for him. It's a surprise, I kinda like it, although it does cause a roadblock for the redemption of my favorite race. Keeps the intrigue high. Meneldir


 * I'm glad that Kael is still around. Hopefully this also means that Illidan will survive somehow, despite appearing to die. After all, if they won't kill off Kael, how can they kill off Illidan? I did read "Lord of the Clans" btw. What I was referring to was how people who only play the games and read the manuals which come with them don't read about Doomhammer's death. They play WC2 to the end, then they buy WC3 and the manual says "Orgrim Doomhammer was killed." That's it. Manual doesn't say anything like "buy the novel if you want to know more."--Illidan Rocks 14:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Interresting Parralel
I'm noticing that there is a definite similarity between Kael and another ruler of the Highborne, Queen Azshara. Both were deified by their people who didn't know how insane they were. They were both incredibly loved, yet betraying their adoring fans. Seems to be a pattern. Meneldir


 * There is a difference. Azshara was totally insane and wanted unlimited power which she believe would be granted to her by Sagares. She did not care whether a holocaust of her people would occur, so long as she got the power. Kael'Thas true motives on the other hand are not fully revealed to us. The last clear stance Kael'Thas took was to find a way to feed is people the magic they needed to survive. As of Warcraft 3 : The Frozen Throne, it is very clear that Kael'Thas still loves his people and would do anything to help them survive, even it if meant demonic fel magic. Until we see his purpose and true motives on Sunwell Plateau, we should reserve judgement. --Invin Dranoel 13:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible Future Rival for the Lich King?
This seems like an interesting possibility, to me. With Kael surviving his raid encounter and becoming allied with the Burning Legion, a number of story threads open up for him. If the Legion still views the Lich King as a threat, Kael'thas could very well be tasked to finish what Illidan could not. He also has past rivalry with Arthas, and presumably still retains the Runeblade, Flamestrike, which seems an appropriate match for Frostmourne. His ability to drain magical energies, coupled with Anveena's identity as an Avatar of the Sunwell, could also provide him with sufficient power to challenge the Lich King, should he succeed where Dar'khan failed. With the possibility of a Sunwell Plateau content patch in the near future, one wonders just what it might entail... Perhaps an invasion of Azeroth, with Tempest Keep appearing over the skies of Eversong as part of a world event? Ahh, my imagination is beginning to get away from me... Still, it's something to think about. Suzaku 06:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a really interesting theory. I like all of it except for the part about using Anveena - from what we've seen in game so far, many of the blood elves in the Outland (the Scryers) abhor what he's done and want nothing more to do with him ever again. How can we know that the elves in Quel'thalas won't have the same reaction? There's one Scryer in Area 52 who says something along the lines of "I used to think that coming to the Outlands to be reunited with Kael was the right thing, but if I'd had any idea what he had in store for us I would have stayed put in Farstrider Square." or something very similar. Dar'khan really didn't seem to give a flip about Quel'thalas or the consequences of his actions on the elves, but so far all we've seen from Kael is an honest concern and care for his people. I think everything else looks great - the rivalry is definitely something to consider, because Kael has reasons aplenty to hate Arthas - I just can't see him able to use the power of the Sunwell unless he takes it by force, which he may be reluctant to do because it might involve further harm to his beloved Quel'thalas. Given his state of mind now, however, he will likely react poorly to any rejection... yeah, I could see him heading straight down Illidan's road. This is definitely something to watch for, either way! Aladara 14:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Destroying the Legion from Within?
It could possibly be that the Twisting Nether is infact PART of Outland, and by Destroying the Netherstorm he obliterates the Burning Legion, While he teleports the keep Over Silvermoon City, Creates a New Sunwell using the Vial of Eternity, The Demons in the keep he shackles to be fed on, And uses the Keeps energys to empower the Blood Elfs? Restoring there Civilization?

It could be that he is playing that...

Well if that's it then he's a very talented actor.If u follow the quest started by his orb it would seem he's trying to get Kil'jaeden into Azeroth not trying to destroy the demons,you can never know what his true motives are but still I don't think he can trick Th Deceiver,so it remains to be seen what Blizzard will decide regarding the fate of Kael'Thas.............BTW does anybody know why Illidan orders Akama to destry Kael's Pheonix A'lar?Do u think he found out he was betrayed,or maybe it has something to do with his Blood Knights ,maybe Kael was helped by some Naaru?Otherwise I don't think he could make his blood knights (something i posted on the Paladin Lore Discussion Page).---Marakanis


 * Is there a particular reason that Kael can't have just been seduced by their promises of power? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:17, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The Twisting Nether isn't part of Outland; Outland is IN the Twisting Nether. It's like saying that destroying Hawaii will destroy the Pacific Ocean: not gonna happen.  That Kael'thas is intending to destroy the Burning Legion from within is possible, but the fact that he's siding with them so fully seems to indicate otherwise; at the very least, he no longer cares about anything but the salvation of Quel'thalas and the blood elves, and is willing to destroy the rest of Azeroth to achieve that.  As far as A'lar, though, you're correct.  As part of the Black Temple attunement chain, Akama tells Illidan that Kael'thas has betrayed him.  Illidan remarks that he isn't exactly surprised, then orders A'lar's death. - Dark T Zeratul 02:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've spoken at length with a couple friends on this subject, we're all pretty deeply into lore... this is my personal guess on the matter. Kael was described as being caring and compassionate before Quel'thalas was destroyed, and an argument can be made for the fact that he at least still had the best interest of his people at heart when he first journeyed to the Outlands and sent M'uru back to Silvermoon City. My guess is that Kael was at first acting in the best interest of his people, but now is beginning to fall victim to the addiction that was caused when the Sunwell was destroyed and cares for little other than more power. I'm not sure if he's trying to destroy them from within as much as he's trying to feed his addiction. My two cents and first post (hope I did all the formatting and such right!). -- Aladara 14:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell me exactly where you founf the quest when Akama tells Illidan he's being betrayed?i searched wowhead but i still can't find it,think it would be very interesting.And BTW nobody said nothing about the Blood Knight thing i posted,what do u guys think?-Marakanis So what you guys think will happen to him?you think he'll follow Kil'jaeden to azeroth ?-Marakanis
 * This is an overview of that quest; I don't have a link to the exact text of it, but you can probably find it via Google. As far as the Blood Knights go... I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say about them.  It's really confusing, and I strongly suggest you proofread your stuff before posting it because the spelling, grammar, and punctuation is atrocious.  YOU may not care, but it makes it very difficult for other people to read it and gives us a less-than-favorable impression of you. - Dark T Zeratul 05:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Quote: Aladara: "My guess is that Kael was at first acting in the best interest of his people, but now is beginning to fall victim to the addiction that was caused when the Sunwell was destroyed and cares for little other than more power. I'm not sure if he's trying to destroy them from within as much as he's trying to feed his addiction." ...You know...you could be right about him caring only about his people...he keeps mentioning phrases like "For Quel'Thalas" and "My people must be avenged". However, Kael, to all appearances, has fallen now under the influence of Kil'Jaeden, who is, give or take a few Old Gods and Sargeras himself, pretty close to being evil incarnate. Not only does that mean that Kael is likely getting unimaginable amounts of demonic power from him to further his cause, but it also points to Kael becoming something of a demon himself. To that end, anything he does at this point has corrupt and horribly twisted results, no matter how pure his intentions might once have been.

Me personally, I think Kael is gonna end up being king of the Dark Elves, but thats just me speculating again. :P--Daughter of Sargeras 05:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you! He's fast on the road to becoming Wretched if he doesn't turn himself around quickly. I think he does care deeply about his people, but I'm not so sure that there isn't something that's a higher priority on his plate right now... that may in fact involve restoring glory to Quel'thalas, but my guess is that the people of said kingdom are going to freak when they find out the truth (i.e. how he's gotten all this power)... and how can Lor'themar *not* know? He's regent-lord! Is he in on it too? Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? Aladara 04:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The question is, does Lor'themar know anything about the Scryers, or what they discovered of Kael's allegiance? If Lor'themar does know, then it's probably like the whole Anveena thing...a state secret. If not, then Rommath has been kind of selective with his info (or he's having Scryers who attempt to bring this info to his attention killed - take your pick). --Joshmaul 21:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My answer would have to be, as before - how could he not know? It's possible that word doesn't travel from the Outlands to Quel'thalas much, but given the reaction of the Scryers to Kael's current behavior, I would guess that they would try to contact Lor'themar to let him know. If all communication goes through Rommath, though, as you've said - I could definitely see him leaving out choice bits of information. The article here on WoWWiki states that he is fiercely loyal to Kael, and we really aren't sure if his loyalty to Kael is greater than his loyalty to his people. I think that since he's supposed to be spreading Illidan's teachings, but is instead spreading them as Kael's, he's going to side with Kael in the end. In that event, if Lor'themar does find out and decides that Kael needs to be "taken care of", so to speak... well, I wouldn't be surprised if he met an unfortunate and untimely end. I, personally, would love to have more information about this entire situation as it effects the government and people in charge of Quel'thalas. It would be a very interesting snowball - if Lor'themar knows, does Halduron Brightwing know? Should he? And if THEY know, is Anveena in danger? There's a theory over on the Analysis page that suggests that Kael will return and reclaim and/or restore the Sunwell... what would happen to Quel'thalas then? Aladara 21:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How could he not know? Simple: until the Dark Portal was reopened, the only communication between Kael'thas and Quel'thalas was whatever messages he sent with Rommath when he returned to Azeroth. It's not like there's been repeated communication between him and Kael; he returned to tell the people of Quel'thalas all about the glories of Outland and the teachings of Illidan (all of which he attributed to Kael'thas, of course), and that was it.  They haven't been in contact since, and likely haven't contacted each other since the reopening of the portal, either.  Lorthemar wouldn't have known anything about the true nature of the elves in Outland until very recently, when the Portal was reopened and contact established with the Scryers.  My personal opinion is that Lorthemar and Halduron would be horrified to find out what Kael'thas has really been up to.  It's possible that Rommath would have a similar reaction, since he almost certainly came to Quel'thalas shortly after the events of the Frozen Throne, before Illidan sealed up the last portal and is likely unaware that Kael'thas is serving a darker master. - Dark T Zeratul 05:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You are probably right, they would be horrified. Rommath, on the other hand... maybe not so much. He's incredibly loyal to Kael, so it remains to be seen how he'll react if and when they find out about what their prince is up to. I would think, though, that the Scryers would go to great lengths to contact Lor'themar to keep more recruits from Silvermoon from heading to Kael's side in Netherstorm... Spymaster Thalodien in Area 52 expresses a lot of concern about that issue. I would guess that Voren'thal has attempted to contact Lor'themar... at least, I'd hope so! - Aladara 18:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only would the scryers be sending this information, but the orcs, trolls, forsaken, and tauren in outland would also notice what Kael'thas was doing, and would likely not keep it a secret as they have no reason to hide the information from their own populations. This would make it over to the blood elves pretty well.  (Plus there is information working it's way from the alliance, goblins, etc.)Minionman 15:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Lor'themar has to know, unless he's going through life with blinders on. All we can do is wait and speculate and see what he'll do in the end.  I'm going to guess that Kael isn't going to get the homecoming he'd hoped for... - Aladara 19:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean with "Dark Elves", Daughter of Sargeras? :S --Odolwa 01:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You know how Dar'Khan was made out to be this big traitor in the lore (only to be unceremonially killed off - again, apparently - at the end of all the questing in Deatholme)? Imagine an entire race of people just like Dar'Khan. All power-hungry, all insane, and all pissed off. Then you'd probably have dark elves. Read up anything about dark elves in Warhammer Fantasy Battles - some pretty good stuff in there. --Joshmaul 21:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Quote: Odolwa: "What do you mean with "Dark Elves", Daughter of Sargeras? :S" Um....once again, i ask you to forgive the speculation, but I'm wondering if the current race of evil blood elves (not referring to the ones on Azeroth or the Scryers) might not be blizzard's way of eventually introducing "Dark Elves" to the Warcraft universe. ...I like speculating a little too much, at times :) --74.100.208.48 06:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that they were going to slowly become Wretched... but dark elves would be cool too! - Aladara 22:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

There already exist "Dark Elves" in WoW. Nocturnal elves with a purple skin. Here they are called Night Elves ;] --Odolwa 01:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Getting back on topic, I imagine Lor'themar does know. He might not, but I'd bet he does. To explain his current inaction over it I'd guess he's trying to keep the peace. The Farstriders would probably demand cutting ties with Kael while the Magisters and Arcanists would probably side with Kael. With Quel'thelas still being rebuilt, I doubt this is a great time for a civil war. So what does he do? Nothing. He busies himself with rebuilding Quel'Thalas and tries to keep his people from killing eachother. Meneldir
 * I think you are most likely right... as I said, we're just going to have to wait and find out. My guess - and this is ONLY a guess - is that with all the speculation going on with the Sunwell raid instance, IF that proves true, Kael will end up repudiated by his people... or dead for good. I wonder if that would make Lor'themar king, since he's Regent-Lord? My knowledge of succession is a bit lacking. ;D - Aladara 17:26, 4 August 2007

(UTC)

Well if Kael indeed dies permenantely then i guess either Lor'themar becomes king ,some other elves would demand leadership and make a civil war .....or maybe a lost relative of his will appear,remember the random name for blood mages in warcraft3 Eldin Sunstrider?Well maybe he'll make an entrance into the game after all (in the lore at least)after all remember the random name for demon hunters Shadowsong,the name appeared before The War of the Ancients (version in which Jarod Shadowsong sppears)so you may never know maybe the'll change the rulling dinasty make them Windruners (Sylvos Windruner) I for one would expect anything (Marakanis 22:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC))

If Kael was indeed killed, I find it likely that the blood elves would bring back the Convocation of Silvermoon, considering that there'd probably be many differences of oppinion concerning the best way to run Quel'Thalas. Eldin is a possibility, but Blizzard would have a rather hard time fitting him into lore, as to why he hasn't been mentioned before. Still, for all we know, Kael's got some son/daughter lurking around somewhere; what with introducing Garrosh and Arator, I wouldn't be surprised.

Sylvos would have an easier time fitting in but I somehow doubt that he or any other Windrunner will achieve prominance. After all, most of the Windrunners were killed in the Scourge invasion and of those we know remain, Alleria is MIA in Outland, Sylvanas is an undead witch and I doubt that many blood elves would appreciate Vereesa running off with Rhonin and bringing two more half-elves into the world. Still, anything's possible I guess. --Hawki 09:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Given Lor'themar's reaction to Kalec in the manga, I'm going to seriously doubt Vereesa will be welcomed as a ruler. If you've not read the manga, Kalec chooses to appear as a half-elf, and Lor'themar treats him pretty poorly as a result. - Aladara 03:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've read the manga. You're definetly right about Lor'themar's reaction. Arrogant twat... --Hawki 12:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, my thoughts exactly! - Aladara 01:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Does anybody have the RPG?would be interesting what the RPG says about Kael's weapons and armor.That is if there is more information then just his Flamestrike Sword......although feel free to post something about the swords powers and abilities(Marakanis)


 * Nobody wields that much political clout to become the next King should Kael'thas be killed. My take is that Lor'themar Theron would re-establish a new Convocation of Silvermoon, maybe like a Roman Senate, and Quel'thalas would become a Republic instead of a Kingdom. Lor'themar would still have substancial political influence to keep Silvermoon together to prevent a civil war. --Invin Dranoel 12:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

My Take on Kael'Thas Position
Kael'Thas by far is one of the most confusing characters in the entire Warcraft Universe. As of The Burning Crusade, Blizzard has effectively turned the good prince from a Tragic Hero, driven by desperation to unorthadox forms of magic in order to ensure his people's survival, into an insane (apparently, most bosses in WoW uses the term insane as an excuse for players to take them down) twat. To me, it seems very unlikely that Kael'Thas would be turned to the Dark Side in a similar manner as Arthas. A few reasons being it has already happened to another character and doing so would mean Blizzard is being extremely lazy (which I really hope they are not). Alternatively, he is taking a page out of Illidan's book and plans to betray the Legion at some point or another. This, in my opinion, the latter the most likely. In light of what Blizzard has planned on Sun Well Plateau, Kael'Thas summoning Kil'Jaeden into Azeroth and all, it further complicates Kael'thas. Up til this point, even in Eye (Tempest Keep), Kael appears fiercly loyal to Quel'Thalas, although his approach may be a little too radical, but summoning Kil'Jaeden into Azeroth may be pretty darn insane. Bringing home an Archimonde level Eredar? Pretty bad idea. Or is it? Possible GOOD reason for summoning Kil'Jaeden into Azeroth


 * Kil'Jaeden is a powerful antagonist to the Scourge
 * To Kael'thas, the biggest threat to Quel'Thalas and his people isn't the Burning Legion. It is Arthas and the Scourge. With Naxx just floating at his southern borders, it is an immidiate threat. The Scourge must be dealt with. Knowing Northrend itself is almost impregnable (having faced the Scourge there before), his best bet at crushing Arthas the Lich King would be non-other than Kil'Jaeden, the creator of the Lich King himself.


 * Kil'Jaeden is a very shrewed Eredar. Even if he were to be summoned in Quel'Thalas, he wouldn't bother to destroy the Elves. Put it simply, the Elves are not his priority. Arthas is. The number one on Kil'Jaeden's list would be the destruction of the Scourge. Kael'thas is a smart elf. He knows that. But he also knows once the Lich King and Kil'Jaeden are done with each other, whoever is left alive will become Azeroth's new number one threat. Still, a battle between Lich King and Kil'Jaeden will weaken the victor significantly.


 * There is a Naaru in Silvermoon City
 * A bright side to imprisoning a M'uru in Silvermoon. No matter how long the Blood Elves keep M'uru there, if Kil'Jaeden attacks Silvermoon and should M'uru escape his/her Sin'Dorei jailors, the Eredar Warlock would be M'uru's number one target, not the Blood Elves.


 * Azeroth did it once, Azeroth can do it again.
 * The people of Azeroth defeated Archimonde with only the involvement of the greater Horde, Night Elves and Theramore. Kael'thas was not at Hyjal to know the conditions that led to Archimonde's defeat to it is plausible that Kael'thas believed that with the world's cooperation, and the new found magics he found in Outland, Kil'Jaeden can be defeated.

There may be more theories to possible agendas Kael'thas might have. Hope to hear from the community. ^_^ --Invin Dranoel 14:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind also that his agenda does not necessarily have to be logical. Kael'thas is clearly insane; there's no question about that.  He may have his homeland's best interests at heart (or at least he thinks he does), but we've already seen the extreme lengths he's willing to go to in order to save his people.  While a sane person would probably realize that Kil'Jaeden would not hold up his end of any bargain he might make, Kael'thas is probably deluded enough to believe, for example, that Kil'Jaeden would destroy the Lich King, thank the blood elves, and take off.  What's more, Kil'Jaeden is cunning enough to be able to convince Kael'thas that summoning him to Azeroth is a good idea.  He tells Kael'thas the right things, says exactly what he wants to hear, makes a few promises, and suddenly it not only makes sense to summon an eredar warlock into Azeroth, but it's of the utmost importance to do so.  He's not called the Deceiver for nothing, after all. -- Dark T Zeratul 19:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be willing to debate the insanity position. Going to extreme lengths out of desperation does not make someone crazy, and while his actions may appear thusly to outsiders he seems to be quite stable overall - the decisions he makes are conscious ones that he seems to understand the outcome of. I believe his zealotry has gotten the better of him, however, and I do agree with you on the points you make about Kil'jaeden making promises and saying the right things at the right times. Kael has made some decisions that are questionable *at best*, but I don't think anything he has done has been the act of an insane mind. He could be like Illidan and simply making choices that will grant him more power, and demonic magic does corrupt - but Kael still has Quel'thalas at heart. - Aladara 22:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Aladara totally,but anyway i think all of this will be clarified when the Sunwell Plateau patch will apear.....BTW when will it appear?If it will appear soon enough then this discussion is a little useless(Marakanis 11:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC))
 * It'll be the patch after next, I believe - next up is Zul'Aman, then The Sunwell Plateau. I'm on the edge of my seat... I want to know what's going to happen! - Aladara 11:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Man Kael's TCG picture is simply cool! too bad he looks like he has claws...(Marakanis 15:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC))

Am I the only one really dissapointed about how Kael's fate turned out ot be ? :( blizzard should try to overcome their traditional ' hero gone mad ' style at least when it comes to nice characters(Marakanis 01:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

I'm pretty upset too. He was one of the only characters I really simpathized... Swiftstar 21:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)Swiftstar

Race change?
Should Kael'thas still be categorized as a blood elf? Shouldn't he be changed to wretched or at least felblood elf? (talk - contr ) 01:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * See Talk:Kael%27thas_Sunstrider-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)