Talk:Mage theorycraft

Will do heavy editing to remove/collapse the "goals of spec" info, as well as fixing the engrish Faeya 23:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Goals of theorycraft.
Theorycraft is about the number-crunching that informs the player about the way the different abilities/items/specs. e.g., sunder has about 700 threat for a prot tank. Mage theorycraft is primarily about the DPS and the DPM of different mage specs and spell rotations. Faeya 23:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Suggestions
First, Bravo! Next, I would suggest being very careful to avoid "inflammatory" statements, even if they're true. Currently, on the main page, there is a statement of fact that 10/48/3 is the best raid DPS. While this may be true, stating it in those terms invites trouble. I do not believe that the purpose of this page should be to make such claims. Rather it should be to put out into the public, for open review, all the facts that support the conclusion. --Bossakula 13:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * To sum of his message, remember to make unbiased statements. :) --Sky (t · c · w) 01:11, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Noted. Now to reword and start doing some actual work on the page content. Faeya 22:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

"While Frost mages used to be unique in having Ice Block as a tool for dropping aggro temporarily" Is this technically incorrect though it may be "functionally" correct? Nothing actually happens to your aggro when you iceblock, in the same way that nothing happens to a a Paladin's aggro when bubbled.

Personally I have tried fire/IV, arcane/pyro and are now on an arcane/IV. The fire/iv specc was a 100 dps lower than the arcane/pyro (i had the same gears) and comparing arcane/pyro with arcane/IV, i find myself on an even higer dps than arcane/pyro! Alltho, now I tend to spam AB a lot, and then see the fire mages beside me go OOM when I happily pop another mana gem... and tbh, the fire/iv drained my mana faster than an AB spamming rotation (let the debuff wear off at times, to rest your mana) on arcane build.. also, the 10% arcane hit is great and with 40% reduced threat, overaggroing really isnt a problem. But I do admit that the arcane specc can be much harder to play, always counting dpm/dps and in the end it all comes down to playstyle.

Arc/Frost
I'm not sure that the statement declaring arcane/frost builds to be low-dps is accurate. I have a 40/0/21 arcane/frost build that provides excellent mana efficiency and high DPS for raids. I'm not saying that it's the highest-DPS build around, but I don't think it does the build justice to declare it gimped and leave it at that. I woulnd't mind putting together the arc/frost subsection but I just registered and wanted to check here first so as not to step on others' toes :) Xedrus 16:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Xedrus,
 * I certainly don't mind you providing work on Arc/Frost: it's the build I'm personally least familiar :with. However, I'm going to ask taht you provide hard theorycraft numbers for each of your statements. :I've been occupied with other things in the last month or two, and haven't worked on this page more, :but in the end, my goal is to have each statement, ie, "Arcane/Frost has medium DPS/good DPM" backed :up with a spell rotation and some numbers comparing the DPS/DPM of the build based on your assumptions.
 * Lhivera from the mage forums has a nice page at http://tc.awenet.com/index.php detailing some information.
 * Faeya 19:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've gone through and added todo's and removed some biased statements. For instance, arc/frost is ::often held to be a very bad raid spec due to the numbers: it does less DPS theorycraft-wise.
 * It should do good DPM though. Faeya 19:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Fire Blast GCD dropping DPS
These statements are unsubstantiated and are being taken out. Insert back when numeric results can substantiate.Faeya 23:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't know what was there before but anyway... I've had doubts about this fact for a while and was meaning to do the math myself, but I just cba'd ^^. Finally, I recently discovered www.arcannis.com/mage_calculations.php which kinda does most of the work. Now, the following of course takes for an assumption that the afore mentioned calculator is correct, which I believe it is. Also, it is very talent- and gear-specific, but I believe that the gear can be disregarded as (logical assumption) it only increases the numbers in favour of the frostbolt spam, considering that frostbolt gets more % from the +damage. Also, the build I use is 10/0/51, meaning there's no shortening of the Fire Blast CD, which would indeed swing the damage more into the favour of chaining it, but this is just to point out the damage drop to those who use 10/0/51 builds on boss fights.
 * Anyway, the numbers. +1064 frost damage, +889 fire damage, 6.78% base crit (counted in AI and Molten Armor), 239 crit rating, assumption of 5/5 Winter's Chill on target (boss fight assumed), this build used http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZZVVMIsfxowqt and the option to count in average normal/crit damage. Basically, the damage you get is: Frostbolt=2201 damage, Fire Blast=1203 damage. Now view the rotations:
 * 1) 3 Frostbolts, half a second wait for Fire Blast, Fire Blast equals to 821 DPS
 * 2) 4 Frostbolts, Fire Blast equals to 870 DPS
 * 3) Continuous Frostbolt spam equals to 880 DPS
 * So, in the end, a 10 DPS difference (miniscule I know, but still) and a LOT more mana efficiency (so you can drop Clearcasting for some more DPS on the talent build).
 * 4) *added to consider Fire Blast CD shortening, half a second shortening is enough* 3 Frostbolts, Fire Blast equals to 867 DPS, again resulting in lower DPS than pure Frostbolt spam, also keep in mind you have to take 6 points out of something for this to work, which would likely lower this DPS
 * Ofc, I could've screwed something up in the calculations, I've been double checking so should be ok, but tell me if you see a mistake there :)
 * edit:apologies, forgot to sign... Could anyone double check this to see if it's correct and put some feedback? Interested if it's true hehe, thanks Ugljesa 00:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The difference in DPS between using Frostbolt exclusively and using Frostbolt in combination with Fireblast varies based on many different conditions. The above calculations were made without taking into consideration the totality of either the combat situation or the gear situation, in either pvp or pve circumstances. First, in an actual combat situation, you are dealing with a target with fixed hp, and you are not going to start a frostbolt up when the target is at very low health. Obviously, Fireblast's DPS is better than Frostbolts DPS in this situation, since your frostbolt would fizzle when the target died. Additionally, not every build includes 5/5 Winter's Chill, since it may become redundant as it maxes out in long boss fights. Often, 4/5 or 3/5 can be almost effective in boss fights, especially in raid situations where there are other frost mages. The difference in +dmg listed above is 175, and since most items do not specifically grant +frost dmg, it is unlikely that mages will have this kind of difference. Some mages use items that reduce the casting time of fire blast, but even if you do not, there is no reason to wait any length of time in a boss/raiding situation, just casting frostbolt until your fireblast cd is complete is the obvious efficient choice. Against any targets that are getting healed, a frostbolt into a fireblast can be a crucial sudden dps that could kill a mob that otherwise would have regened. Even if you are going for straight DPS over a long period, it is doubtful that fireblast will slow down your dps. (it will slow down your mana though) Flyinghamster 12:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Improving

 * Added a few links for Wowhead's Talent Calculator for people who can't access WoW's site from work.
 * Did a few reformats with some spelling and placement. Didn't remove anything. Evankimori 12:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added some further information regarding Shiffar's Nexus-Horn, and also added some theorycrafting on the Trinkets page itself. WMA
 * Corrected incorrect information regarding duration and updated some data resulting resulting from this for Shiffar's Nexus-Horn. WMA 16:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Added a new Trinket section, and moved Shiffar's Nexus-Horn to be a sub-section of Trinkets. WMA (talk) 07:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Elementalist / Elemental Mastery Frostfire build
This is a possible frost raiding build i miss in the talk about different builds.

0/18/43

I call it the elemental mastery spec, because that is the reason you go into fire as a frost mage. Using elemental mastery for mana return instead of clearcasting. This build is better for mana return when more then 3.1 out of 10 frosbolts (32% crit chance) is viable to assume in boss fights when assuming frostbolt spamming as your dps method.

With the Arcane Concentration talent in a 10/0/51 spec. or 18/0/43, a Mage essentially gains 10% of a spells mana cost per-cast. Since: 2.5 / 0.1 = 25s To proc Clearcasting, giving 345 mana / 25s or: 345 / 25 = 13.8 MP/5 Comparatively, this spec would require a crit chance of: (2.5 / c) = y (345 * 0.3) / y = 13.8 103.5 / y = 13.8 1 / y = 0.1333.... y = 7.5s Returning to the original formula: 2.5 / c = 7.5 c = 2.5 / 7.5 = 0.33.. Meaning that to gain an equal amount of Mana to a Mage with Arc. Concentration, this spec would require a minimum, yet easily obtainable, 33% Crit

It is near this number when using a frostbolt/fireblast rotation. This means you have to be geared for crit rating also taking full advantage of your extra damage from the Ice Shards talent.

An extra added plus is the fire effeciency added with flame throwing, improved fireblast, improved fireball and ignite. Meaning you are still quite efficient when fighting frost immune mobs.

In the end, you have all the good dps talents, a gear that increased your dps thanks to an insane amount of crits (my personal record being a chain of 11 at the moment, with a basic crit of 20% and having a elemental shaman and balance druid in my group) and you add a higher dpm then with a clearcasting spec. Only a 18/0/43 build has a higher dpm but will mean you are a lot less efficient against frost immune mobs. Also add improved fireblast with flamethrowing and the lucky ignite once in a while and you become a frost focused elemental killing machine!

Fire/Ice
Should I add this as into the Fire/Ice section? It has a really good damage capibility from fire, plus the survivability of the Ice.

Personally I'd say something like the following would provide more DPS and Survivability from the inclusion of Cold Snap and Icy Veins. Furthermore, the addition of Imp. Scorch along with Improved and Empowered Fireball would result in a substantially higher DPS gain, at the cost of minimal survivability gained from Blazing Speed.

Irrespective of which you decide to add, I think it would be good to provide a little bit of number-crunching to perhaps highlight the differences in DPS one could expect between this build, which is often taken for survivability in Sunwell raids, compared to say, a standard 2/47/11 raid spec.WMA (talk) 07:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Do not post your own creations
Without citing sources. This page is about theorycraft, not builds. It lists the highest damage mage specialisations that have undergone a theorycrafting process to be figured out.

Please don't add builds you made up or think can be cool. Save it for Mage builds and even there refrain from doing so unless you have good reason and good arguments to back it up. Adesworth  talk to me  19:40, 6 November 2008 (UTC)